Panerai Watches & Movements: Part 2

[@fossilimprint2954]

As always, you are a fountain of knowledge.

[@watchartsci]

I try Fossil! Thanks man! Take care, Bill

[@blueshirtbuddah1665]

Great video Bill. Thanks for this look at all of the different Panerai movements.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Bruce, thanks man! It's my pleasure! Now I've got snow so I'm staying inside with my watches! Cheers, Bill

[@everyones.shadow]

Hi Bill. Thanks for all the research. Panerai was the brand that first got me interested in quality watches. It's frustrating to me that they make so many subtle variations but none (yet) quite what I want. Thanks to your videos I know I should keep watching and waiting. All the best, Jeremy

[@watchartsci]

Given my penchant for California dials, Jeremy, I might even see if I can find an older Panerai with an ETA movement and Cal dial...sort of an interesting beater. They are big watches though! Cheers, Bill

[@emanuelestuder2885]

Hi Bill, i really thank you for your Panerai videos. I love this brand, especially now with in house high quality movement.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Emanuele, yes, it does seem that Paneri has turned the corner and getting back to its original purpose of making a high quality watches and movements. Kindest regards, Bill

[@nssomething8370]

Great two part series Bill!

[@watchartsci]

Hey NSsomething! Thanks man! Chers, Bill

[@CaptainZed]

Hi Bill Thanks for doing an honest Panera video. I happen to be wearing my PAM 510 right now. It was purchased in early 2015. The watch has run very well, accurate and I have enjoyed it a lot. The easy strap swapping is especially a positive. There is unfortunately quite a lot of ignorance and negative misinformation regarding Panerai. One of my favorite brands ✌

[@watchartsci]

Hi Cap'n Zed! An earlier video of misnamed movements and questionable business practices always caught Panerai up to something-I've always loved their designs, but just didn't trust them-same story with IWC, Breitling and Cartier-deceptive about their movements. Now, though it looks like Panerai has turned the corner and I've been looking at one of my favorites-the California Dial! However, I do like the watches with the 8-day P.5000 movement! Kindest regards, Bill

[@CaptainZed]

@@watchartsci I honestly think the negative talk on Panerai is exaggerated. As you stated, with the in-house movements now there really isn't too much to complain about. ✌️

[@watchartsci]

@@CaptainZed We're watch collectors! We can always find something to complain about!! And we should! Cheers, Bill

[@TheMystro1971]

I have tested the Panerai in-house P.9010 over a year now and accuracy has been outstanding with +1 second a day, That said, its power reserve test of its dual barrel main spring has yielded over 80 hours. Amplitude is strong and reflects its dual barrel mainsprings. All in all I found its accuracy extremely good days into its power reserve as well which is probably the most important "real world" advantage to a long power reserve. What good is a long power reserve if the accuracy falls away after 24 hours??? (Looking at you .....Rolex 32 series movement) :;) Now Panerai has introduced a non hacking gen 2 P.9010 that they didnt rename (although they should have). No reason has been given for this odd move. Needless to say the Gen 1 P.9010 movements pre 2021 are very desirable now.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Mystro! Thanks for the information. For years Patek Philippe did not have hacking nor does F.P. Journe. Glad to hear our P.9010 is taking such good temporal care of you! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@markoradic9643]

Same experience (less than 1sec per day) here and also the Gen 2 has less decoration and no more transparent back to hide the downgraded movement ... and some Panerai with this movement are no more 300m waterproof - I really ask myself why a nice brand like Panerai does this sort of cost and quality cuts, this is perhaps saving $100 on $8000 luxury watch ....

[@arthurleighallen9038]

Bill the p.9000 and p.9010 are very similar. The BIG difference is the p.9000 is 7.9mm thick and the p.9010 is 6mm thick. The p.9010 is the newer varient. It works well for the DUE line of watches and the trend of thin is in. Love the channel!!!!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ryan thanks for that clarification. You are exactly right about the newer P. 9010 ... and I wonder if it is ValFleurier if it might show up in other watches under the Richemont umbrella? What do you think? Kindest regards, Bill

[@apathyboy5306]

Is the new p900 the one in the due line?

[@arthurleighallen9038]

@@apathyboy5306 I think u are correct

[@jameshoward9700]

Fascinating Panerai vids (1&2), thanks! I have a Radiomir 1930s with a P9000 movement and have found it very accurate and reliable. It is a very thick movement, which I find adds great character to the watch as it wear like the pocket watch the design is modelled on, but can see it would limit the watch for more formal wear. I think the P9010 was designed to be significantly thinner and theoretically more shock resistant for the Submersible models. I like Panerai very much, but wish they would rationalise their range and offer some smaller sizes - my wife would love one!

[@watchartsci]

Now that Panerai has all in-house movements, they've moved up several notches in my opinion. Still pretty good buys. Take care, Bill

[@missakhaladjian]

Hi James, do you happen to know as estimate, how many seconds you have plus or minus a day on your p9000? Thanks

[@jameshoward9700]

@@missakhaladjian Hi Missak. It was very accurate - within +2 a day, but normally within +1.

[@algorithm007ify]

I think that Panerai (like rolex) overcharge for what you get. Sure, they are robust sports movements (both of which I have owned numerous examples of), but I would argue (from my experience at least) that a seiko 8L35b movement (based off a grand seiko movement) found in the likes of the Seiko MM300 performs better than both and can usually be had for a fraction of the price.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, WA, you really get your money's worth with Seiko. Take care, Bill

[@jameshoward9700]

Interesting! My 8L35 is nowhere near the accuracy of my P9000! Neither is my Omega Co-axial or Rolex 3135. Only my GS High Beat is more accurate. I think the problem with 8L35s is their consistency. I have another on the way, so I'll see! Best.

[@ripperx444]

What do you think about the Panerai P 6000? I have it in my 1085 and I like the 3 day over the 8 day. It does run a little slow about 2 seconds a day. Also the P9010 they removed the hacking functionality. Cutting corners!

[@watchartsci]

Hi Ripper... I'm ok with the P6000 and the fact that they got rid of the stop second in the 9010. It was just a brake slamming down on the balance wheel. Not a good thing. Take care, Bill

[@h111551]

Bill, A fine Part II. When I was a young man, I knew Alex Marcovich who migrated from Sports Car Graphic to Consumers Report where he eventually became the Automotive Editor. There is a compelling need in horology for the kind of objective analysis and testing combined with some watchmaker input on the pros and cons of the Panerai in-house movements. The Consumer Reports approach may not work quite as well as a slightly more subjective approach but the input needs to come from watchmakers or hyper experienced watch technicians. Forums like Watchuseek provide some input but it tends to be nontechnical and Yelpish (if somebody has a good experience the post is positive and if they have a bad experience it is negative but usually without the benefit of high level technical knowledge). Barring a full scale Consumer Reports testing environment, I would at least like to know what 20+ year graduates of WOSTEP who have worked on the new Panerai movements have to say about them. Cheers.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Howard, there're so many different forces that influence watchmakers and those with an inside track that it's difficult for them to speak up. One I know will swear that we should all get watches running on ETAs because the parts are generally available and virtually all mechanical watchmakers can work on them. Another, who is near-paranoid about being quoted has a contract to service Rolexes and while he doesn't think much of them, they're the bread & butter of his business. An attorney who used to work for one of the Holy Trinity companies (at a fairly high level) told me about all of the Russian oligarch money in Richemont-he now works for an auction house ... requiring even more discretion! Finally, a well-known watchmaker told me that Jean-Pierre Jaquet - banned from the Swiss watchmaking business in any manner, shape or form for his conviction- is knee-deep in watchmaking-all illegal, of course. (I will forgive Jean-Pierre Jaquet anything because of the Jaquet 736 movement I'm so fond of...) If you've ever flown into Lindberg Field (San Diego's International Airport), the flight path leads right though downtown and you can literally look into the windows of high-rise business offices ... getting a glimpse of what goes on inside. That's about what we get of the watch business. Cheers, Bill

[@Mister19Eleven]

Thanks for the informative and detailed video. I just got the PAM1321. Thats the P9012 movement. Dunno how familiar you are with that one but I wanted to ask if you have ever heard of where you pulled the crown out completely to set the time, the seconds hand resets and hacks but when done and you pushed the crown back in, the watch is not running and the balance is still locked? Have you also had it heard where the seconds did not reset to zero but was a few seconds off like at 58 or so? I had these things happen yesterday and it took several tries of trying to set the time for it to finally work. So far time keeping is good but I hope there was no damage caused and there was no manufacturing defect, especially with a brand new watch. Thanks.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Mr. T. Yes, I've had the same thing happen to me-not with that watch but with another that also had hacking. If it hasn't fixed itself, after pushing the crown in all the way and maybe even re-setting the time. I took mine to my watch maker, and he fixed it w/o even opening the case. So it's not a terrible thing, and it happens with hacked watches. Take care, Bill

[@Mister19Eleven]

Thanks Bill, appreciate the answer. Have a good new year!

[@missakhaladjian]

Thanks for this great video, is the current p9010 considered a good movement in terms of reliability and accuracy? Thanks

[@watchartsci]

Seems like a decent caliber to me-nothing earth shaking, but pas mal, Missa🤔 p9010

[@missakhaladjian]

@@watchartsci the hour jump as a gmt feature in both directions seems a pretty great feature

[@robertocarrillo9919]

Hi Bill, im a new subcriptor, i am watching all your videos and i am really enjoying them, i love watches but im very amateur , i really apreciate all the information you provide, Panerai has always been my favorite brand, i just got a few months ago the PAM 1537 GMT with the movement P 9002, i was looking for more objective information about it, its great you made this videos about panerais movements.

[@watchartsci]

Welcome, Roberto. All of the Panerai with a calibre P9002 are manufactured by Panerai, and I believe that all new Panerai have in-house calibers. So, it looks to be a brand back on the right track. Take care ,Bill

[@GC2TEJJ]

Hi Mr Sanders. My 9010 after one year is now +6 sek/day ... one month in use it was +5sek/day. Ok for my use. I wear 24/7/366

[@watchartsci]

Hey Der S. ... good to hear your 9010 is doing well ... and you got the leap year right 366! Take care, Bill😷

[@johnmika4579]

Hi. Is the p.6000 a good movement? Thanks

[@watchartsci]

It's complicated John. In general, I believe that the P.6000 is a good base movement for Panerai. The problem with Panerai, is that they're always trying to make the truth more interesting. While they claim that the P.6000 is made in their Neuchâtel workshops, it's more likely from Manufacture ValFleurier in Buttes, Switzerland (the Richemont Group's mfg.). Maybe they ébauche is made in Buttes and sent to Neuchâtel for final assembly... but whatever, it's a good solid movement based on the Unitas 6497. From what I've been able to discern, the base does not have the small seconds at 9 o'clock like the original 6497, and it runs at 21,600 vph; so it's most likely based on the 6497-2. Take care, Bill

[@tippykaffu4047]

Hey Bill, I think you should look into Charles Frodsham's movements. They used double impulse chronometer technology and its movement is 3Hz, the low beat you like. Most of their movements are chronometer-certified too. Their movements are really interesting and they make their watches in England. It is the only surviving British watchmaking company and its history can be traced back to the 18th or 17th Century.

[@watchartsci]

Ok, Tippy, I'll do it and a short video (5 min) ... so stand by! I'm about to launch a new video series! Cheers, Bill

[@tippykaffu4047]

@@watchartsci Thx bill!

[@janhyllegaardpedersen8181]

Hi Bill. I'm excited about your videos and all the knowledge you pass on. Thank you. I just bought a Panerai GMT ref 01033. with a p 9011 work. Do you have anything to say about this work.

[@watchartsci]

I like the 9000-based series Panerai, Jan. The question is; how do you like your Panerai GMT? Take care, Bill

[@AbdulRWatches]

Thanks, Bill for the great video. I did hear that Panerai 8 days movement has horrible accuracy, I really like their Luminor Submersible 47 Chrono, a very interesting watch. I am really interested to get a simple two-hander Luminor 44m, I am hoping to get a deal for a Unitas/ETA model, as I think they will substantially cheaper in the long run to service.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Abdul, several have mentioned problems, but the only person who actually has one only said it runs fast. That doesn't seem too unusual for an 8-day given the charge of an 8-day spring.... I too am thinking about a rock bottom Panerai California Dial with an ETA ... low on my list though. Cheers, Bill

[@apathyboy5306]

The early in house 8 days were known to run VERY fast for a few minutes after winding. This problem seems to have been fixed now. My one runs great, ranging from slightly fast at first to slightly slow as it winds down. Over a week it evens itself out. Get it without a second hand and you won't even notice...

[@tjelinic]

P6000 has free sprung balance, if i understand correctly that is the main difference vs earlier version, full bridge etc. should be more reliable and roboust, also in pratice has 92 hours of PR which is great. I am not sure what to expect about antimagnetic properies-looks like minimum.

[@watchartsci]

Tjelincic ... the P6000 is most likely to have been produced at ValFleurier, Richemont's movement mfg. It doesn't look free sprung ... where did you see that it was? Take care, Bill

[@anibaluriarte3676]

acciaio not acciacio the name for steel in macaronian language

[@watchartsci]

Thanks for the correction Anibal. Take care, Bill

[@cedarcanoe]

Goodmorning Bill, you must be posting this video in the middle of the night ?

[@watchartsci]

Hi Erik ... sharp eyes! It gets dark around 4pm here this time of year and I didn't get to my video recording until about 4:30pm (1630). How many hours of daylight do you get in the winter in Sweden? Cheers, Bill

[@cedarcanoe]

WatchArtSci currently we have daylight between 8:30AM and 3:30PM.

[@paulaxton72]

No maker punishes and tests their movements and cases than Panerai

[@watchartsci]

I do not find consistency in Panerai. What you say may be true with their divers, but it seems that sometimes the people responsible for the movements are asleep at the wheel. Take care, Bill

[@vladamirkb1]

i want that 1950 submersible.

[@watchartsci]

Well Decon...how's this one? www.jomashop.com/panerai-watch-pam00389.html Ask your wife to get it for you for Christmas... Cheers, Bill

[@ygrbooks]

I can only hope you are aware of the cheapest of movements (a totally undecorated ETA 6497) Panerai put into the "Brooklyn Bridge" 318 limited edition and the partially decorated, but still cheap ETA 2892-2 movement with Dubois Dépraz chronograph module in their chronographs. There are more, but let this suffice to say that Panerai is a total rip-off. As of now, fake Panerais may have better movements than the original ones - what a debacle.

[@watchartsci]

Always loved the looks of Panerai watches; not a fan of their horology.Books... Take care, Bill