THI Mainland Strat Comparison

I compare the two strats for reaching the mainland 0xA in THI. Specifically, the old strat of using a star dance clip versus the new strat of using a double goomba bounce.
This video is basically just meant to document how these two strats compare. It's not meant to be an interesting watch throughout, so feel free to skip around and not watch the whole thing.
Note that the old strat requires a very precise trajectory for the tiny piranha plant's coin, meaning very few RNG values work for this. Consequently, I had to spend some time running around in the grass to advance RNG until a workable RNG value was near.

[@unclebustard5328]

I just found out about this whole A button challenge today and watched a 5.5 hour video on the whole timeline of it. You're an absolute legend dude. Merry christmas

[@glitchybrawl7012]

chad bismuth viewer

[@unclebustard5328]

@@glitchybrawl7012 gotta start somewhere

[@piper2332]

Welcome to the journey!

[@ex320kyt]

Based

[@Zejoant]

Based

[@moth.monster]

Mario Paces Around For Three Minutes Until Some Goombas Appear Out of Nowhere

[@1_FLASKFAN]

MPAFTMUSGAON

[@Zejoant]

The beauty of mario 64

[@letroodonquialawifi1224]

I think he rng manipulated them that s why he's doing all that dance Or a it s AI manipulation by luring them

[@moth.monster]

@@letroodonquialawifi1224 Yeah i know how the stuff works im just being silly

[@dustykh]

As cool as the old start is, this new one opening up SDC for Wigglers Red Coins is interesting, even if it currently doesn't help

[@thewierdragonbaby4843]

well it helps for speed

[@UltraAryan10]

My life will be complete when Wigglers Red Coins becomes 0x

[@jeremywilliams2535]

​@@UltraAryan10 currently the star I'm least optimistic about short of wmotr

[@UltraAryan10]

@@jeremywilliams2535 I believe everything except WMotR is possible, I believe in pannen and the ABC crew even if the path looks impossible, as long as there is a slightest chance they can make it happen.

[@rtg_onefourtwoeightfiveseven]

@@jeremywilliams2535 I'm least optimistic about PSS - in general, the simpler an unsolved problem is, the more difficult it is to solve, and there is nothing in that room to work with.

[@rangerfurby]

Left: Mario running around like a madman and wasting the star clip Right: *Intense Manipulation Noises*

[@bobbarksofficial4335]

Merry Christmas Pannen! 🎄

[@Ashlyn998]

I'm glad the description explains the part about running on the grass in a circle for a while, it looks so silly out of context

[@ex320kyt]

Man I love this new strat, but I’m also quite excited that the star dance clip could be used *somewhere else*... Now I’m no professional, but I think this might come in handy at some point.

[@Dunkelelf3]

sadly not really i'm afraid. everything can be done without a presses in thi except the 2 at red coins. and there is no way to make use of the sdc. ofc it's another tool in the box so it is great to get rid of it but for red coins there isn't much that can be done. the red coins have fixed locations so there is no useful spawn near a ledge to save anything. and also is there no way to clone anything or any enemies that give coins to spawn a star in a useful location. the only a presses that possibly can be saved are the jump of the pole in bitfs and MAYBE the jrb chest star IF a speed generating technique can be found somewhere that doesn't require a presses and allows for enough speed to get the star. currently there are 14 a presses left to complete the game: 1x peachs slide to collect the box star 1x jrb to collect the chest star 1x to leave the pole in the second bowser stage 2x to enter wing mario over the rainbow and rainbow ride 2x thi to collect the red coins 2x canon shots in wing mario over the rainbow 2x to exit the elevator plattform in ssl 3x to enter ttc a few stars also leech of an a press to perform certain actions that can't be done otherwise like kicking to ride the elevator in watch for rolling rocks or to swim with the shell in ddd but that shouldn't matter so much cause for the remaining a presses there is little hope that they can ever be removed. the peach slide has absolutely nothing to work with just like the chest star in jrb. the only way to gain speed is sliding on the 3 poles but that doesn't allow for enough to get the chest star. they tried to find other ways but there is no luck so far. and people were looking at this for over 10 years. while it's possible to climb the stairs at the top of the castle there is no possible way to generate speed so for entering ttc, wing mario over the rainbow and rainbow ride it's extremely unlikely to get rid of the a presses. same for the 2 canon shots in wmotr. there is no other way to fly than jumping or shooting a canon. and cause the first canon isn't giving enough height the second is also needed. generating speed is impossible cause the wing cap is on a timer. the elecator in ssl for both the top of the pyramid star and the secrets is also hardly avoidable because there is no way to leave the elevator without a and the only other option means climbing the pyramid from inside and that is pretty much impossible without a presses itself. so currently the only a press that is really being looked at is the bowser stage.

[@ex320kyt]

I know about the red coins being at 2xA with little hope about saving either of them. Currently there could be a way to save the 1st a press in this star using a fire clone and a SDC, and both of them seem impossible as things stand, but idk maybe a GLG could get rid of the need for a fire clone? And maybe if a way to collect the coins remotely is found a SDC could be viable? It’s all very hypothetical though.

[@gabypounou]

@@ex320kyt you cant clone anything in the red coins section because it has no way to unload anything, and also except for the box, you can't grab anything

[@Dunkelelf3]

@@gabypounou yes. out of all the remaining a presses the 2 in thi reds and the one in peaches slide are as it looks the most unlikely to ever go away cause there is just nothing to work with for the abc crew. the ones in jrb and bitfs are proven possible IF somehow a way is found to generate enough speed. for those there is small hope. the rest looks pretty impossible tho.

[@SilverLining1]

@@Dunkelelf3 The ABC castle navigation god will one day descend upon this humble challenge and free us of even the most impossible looking A presses. All we can do is wait for his majesty.

[@jacfac9969]

This allows for star dance clip to be used in the red coin area so maybe one of those a presses could actually be saved.

[@crinklefry69]

imma miss the old strat fr

[@trentthen642]

Lol im not Im literally sleeping with the old strat

[@toolofthelord]

@@trentthen642 the

[@najwan3672]

@@trentthen642 the

[@mr.cook5]

@@trentthen642 teh

[@lostpockets222]

I will divorce my wife

[@fishy4102]

This may not help directly for wiggler’s red coins, but that’s one more tool in the box

[@fazaazfgd]

It helps a bit because now the 100 coin star can now maybe used for the wiggler's red coins star

[@Gamercrow]

Merry christmas, and nice improvement there !

[@Kart]

swear i just checked ur channel like 20 minutes ago thinking youd upload, happy holidays though

[@AB-uj2vb]

Merry Christmas everyone, here's to not pressing A

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

You missed the trick, and Merry Christms

[@HeyKevinYT]

@@shadeblackwolf1508 Thanks, Shde Blckwolf

[@HeyKevinYT]

*thnks

[@angelme1195]

Nice work, and merry Christmas pannen ✨

[@notalostnumber8660]

Who else watching the full video even tho we could skip parts?

[@charmandergamer1287]

Does watching X2 speed suffice?

[@notalostnumber8660]

@@charmandergamer1287 ; that actually is like watching half the video, if you want to give more than 100% retention in one view, you have to watch it in slow motion (0.25% speed is 400% retention rate)

[@charmandergamer1287]

@@notalostnumber8660 I just meant in terms of what you were saying, I could skip if I wanted to but chose to just go double speed instead

[@antigrats]

spawning the 100 coin star inside of the wiggler's room sounds like an interesting idea

[@TheRealVbros]

This new smash bros update be bussin fr

[@VAdaPEGA]

I'm 37 minutes too late in my timezone to say merry christmas so happy new year!

[@davidemops]

At some point I want to see a complete tas playing the whole game in one giant sitting.

[@bramble553]

here's hoping the star dances can find a good use somewhere, either to savbe a A press ot ro save time~ I do wish it could be great for Wiggler's coins, but I can't think of any good way to get a coin in the right spot... there's not even anything to clone.

[@Eriienne]

He gave to us this video as a christmas present lol

[@projektb4rd0n53]

Merry Christmas✨️

[@G-Force7]

awesome to see you got this strat to work!

[@twd42]

Watching it like a stereogram until the universes split, they match up again twice for a second.

[@JorgetePanete]

Merry Xm*s

[@glitchybrawl7012]

potential sdc 👀

[@lane_m]

I'm interested to see what we do with this SDC now that's been made available

[@DarkOmegaMK2]

IT'S A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE!

[@theescargotconsumer]

I thought the old strat was an hour long? Weren’t almost all THI stars an hour long before this timesave

[@davidtyas2249]

Not only is the new strat faster than the old one, it also seems simpler (e.g. you don't have to do complicated RNG manipulation or a precise star dance clip. This is a good demonstration of Occam's razor.

[@Bismuth9]

Did you just say you don't have to do complicated RNG manipulation on possibly the most densely RNG manipulated strat of the entire ABC? This took a week and a half of brute forcing.

[@rewandemontay]

A merry merry strat!

[@jurakarok3343]

I enjoy both strats having parts that make them look like troll posts.

[@kargaroc386]

I mean when a *speedrunner* says something's impossible its... likely that they're wrong.

[@Mr_Taternater]

I like what this says about ABC.

[@Quantainiumify]

is it always the same amount of time with every star on the island or is there a lot of variation for rng of the goomba?

[@yesthatshouldwork]

pretty sure rng should always be the same because it's a TAS

[@Quantainiumify]

@@yesthatshouldwork manipulating the rng takes up to 9 minutes to get the values you need though so if youre doing that every time youre going to the mainland then that adds up in a full 120 star run.

[@Quantainiumify]

@@Bluelightzero that would be so hard to calculate, oh i need to add slightly more dust here in HMC so i save 5 minutes in THI rng later in the run

[@ganondalf8090]

@@Quantainiumify it would be bruteforced most likely, or they would go and do other levels, and let the rng cycle around and then come back when the value's close to what it was

[@transcendentalanarchy]

@@Quantainiumify this is the abc community: lots of calculations (and brute forcing) hasn’t been anything new for years. Finding both the old and new strats alone were weeks of brute forcing values, and stars like lll elevator ride and the thi climb were months in the making iirc.

[@Zejoant]

This also allows you to do the star fance clip elsewhere if its useful :)

[@taidakun_ig]

Pancake man giving us a wonderful Christmas present today!!

[@jiqci]

That also means we don't need to leave the level with 100+ coins, saving time even outside the level

[@violetasuklevska9074]

I think you need 107/108 coins to lose time on the menu

[@jiqci]

@@violetasuklevska9074It still saves time at least on Wiggler's Red Coins

[@YourFellowPepsi]

If you could find a way to get a 100 coin star in the reds room this strategy could save an a press, unfortunately to my knowledge there is no way to do that at this moment.

[@cheetahgaming1873]

Can we use star dance clip in red coins? it might save an a press

[@nevermind3476]

this does open up the potential for that, but there’s no known way to make use of it. all the coins in that room have fixed positions and none are close to a ledge where sdc could be performed.

[@jeremywilliams2535]

​@@nevermind3476 yup. But if they could figure out a new way to clone, they could clone a coin line from the Wiggler area. Still not sure if that'd help though.

[@doublespoonco]

@@jeremywilliams2535 you don't just figure out a new way to clone

[@Merluch]

This may help for the two a presses on the inside actually, though there aren't any near coins i think

[@mariotheundying]

What the frick is the second flag on the pfp, I know the first is aro (I think, not ace) but what's the 2nd

[@Merluch]

@@mariotheundying aplatonic

[@mariotheundying]

@@Merluch not being able to feel platonic love? Thats what I'm gonna guess because it has a at the start, anyways that's sad if that's the case because of not being able to love your friends, family, etc

[@Merluch]

@@mariotheundying yeah sorta but idc

[@shadow-r3852]

Hello there and merry Christmas. I have to be honest: I'm starting to lose the plot with all the improvements you've made (I don't even play the game, let alone know any of its underlying mechanics). It would be great if there were commented videos again - be it from you or from somebody else who's cooperating with you. I know you were very clear that the commented things weren't coming back, I hope this comment isn't offensive to you. In short: you're so awesome I can't look as fast as you improve on things.

[@IllustriousElucidation]

"somebody else who's cooperating with you"? Hmmm, I wonder if there is someone cooperating with Pannen in the past 27 months to create 5.5 hours of The History of A Button Challenge...

[@skivvy3565]

Cheers

[@thebestgirlwithpooeyes9531]

Is it just me or did the video name change within 5 seconds of being uploaded--

[@RepressedButton]

He uploaded 2 videos at the same time

[@thebestgirlwithpooeyes9531]

@@RepressedButton just noticed, im a dumby

[@RepressedButton]

@@thebestgirlwithpooeyes9531 nah I did the same thing, I went to click the first one as the second one came in and I got sent to the second video

[@G-Force7]

@@RepressedButton that's literally what happened to me lol

[@--ivypool--]

is it now possible to do a sdc, and save an a press in wigglers red coins?

[@ethanchapman1776]

There's no currently known strat, but I imagine more effort will be put towards it now. The SDC might plausibly also be useful to save time elsewhere in THI, although that's not as much of a priority and there's not a lot of candidates for that.

[@poudink5791]

no. pretty sure it's already been looked into a long time ago, just in case a star dance clip could be used. you can't spawn the star anywhere useful.

[@Splax77]

None of the coins in Wiggler's cave are in useful positions for a SDC unfortunately

[@chocolateimage]

5 minutes faster instead of like 6 hours

[@jetx_47]

Does this make red coins 1xA or 0xA feasible using an SDC somewhere else?

[@poudink5791]

no

[@colonthree]

I am early. x3 Good yule everynyan. :3

[@6B26asyGKDo]

Does this course have infinite coins or what?

[@Ultimaximus]

Yes, the plants respawn with their coins when killed on the last possible frame

[@safestate8750]

Would it still be faster to do the old strat once, since you still need to get the 100 coin star?

[@Kierio04]

The 100 coin star doesn’t take 5 minutes to collect

[@TheMegaxPlus]

There are 5 stars that require being in the mainland, so it saves time for each one of those (25 minutes)

[@trevas1047]

100 coins star is faster without the infinite coin glitch if you have access to the mainland. Huge enemies give blue coins when ground pounded

[@thesaltgod]

@@trevas1047 You can't ground pound on command considering this is the A-button challenge, you'll need to fall from above to do that. Though it's still definitely faster to get the 100 coins on the mainland than get 2 coins per piranha plant over and over.

[@thesaltgod]

@@acmhfmggru Wiggler's Red Coins is currently the only star in Tiny Huge Island that has any A-presses, and unfortunately there are no coins besides the red and blue ones in that area. All of them are in the middle of the platforms, making it impossible to put the 100 coin star in a useful spot to utilize the star dance clip.

[@Buick_GSX]

boing

[@shufflecat3334]

This may be an ignorant question, but, is there any chance ACE can be used to remove currently impossible A presses? It kind of feels like cheating to me, which is funny considering the other techniques used in ABC, but maybe there's a legit way? Sorry if this has been discussed before.

[@xshobux]

I don't think the game has very many avenues for ACE, if any at all. Even if it did, I think it wouldn't be used or maybe used in a separate category.

[@Pokechu22]

I think the only ACE that could work would be one of the cartridge-swaping ACE techniques, but I know very little about those and they would almost certainly be out of scope. (Plus, ACE without pressing A might be fairly difficult, as at least based on retro game mechanics explained's triforce% video they already had to work around a lot of challenges with the instructions available for valid controller buttons; losing an additional button would make things even harder.)

[@poudink5791]

I hope for the sake of this challenge that ACE isn't possible. Would just trivialize the entire thing and suck all of the fun out of a future 0 A press run.

[@xshobux]

@@poudink5791 same. If all these crazy strats with years of work and research were suddenly invalidated because of ACE, it just wouldn't be fun anymore

[@dog_owner]

what is ACE

[@ithinkmycatsdead]

is this behavior like the Scuuttlebug's behaviour? as in, does the goombas unload and respawn in the same place?