Paragliding | Throwing reserve after spiralling attempt out of cloud

This incident happened in June 2023 in Switzerland.
After thermalling up to 3350m I got too close into a cloud. Trying to descend with big ears didn't help so I wanted to spiral down. Unfortunately I completely underestimated the effect of not having any reference points during the spiral due to the cloud. I lost the orientation and almost fell into the canopy of my glider. After that I immediately threw my reserve.
Luckily I landed safely and was not injured.
I hope that someone can learn from my mistakes. Would love to get some feedback on your thoughts.
Glider: Advance IOTA DLS
Harness: Advance Lightness 3
Camera: GoPro Max

[@sidste]

Thanks for all your kind comments, advice and analysis! Really appreciate it! I was hesitating if I should share this footage with the public. But I think it is important that we can learn from the mistakes of others. Happy landings everyone!

[@JohnDoeKyrgyz]

It’s always helpful to learn from other people. Thank you for sharing. Glad you landed safely.

[@timbieze8471]

Wow thank you very much, I think I would have done the same as you and spiral in the cloud good to know ahead of time that the exit will be more difficult. Seems logical but you have to experience to think about this danger.

[@mikes6216]

Is it possible to practice spirals with eyes closed?

[@cloudpandarism2627]

and thats the way it should be. no shame in making mistakes but to keep them secret! saving lifes by making this video public was the right choice. if i screw up i will share it as well. glad to see pilots having the right mindset to fly. cheers from china

[@andreabertino4408]

​@@mikes6216 no it is not advisable!! Too much stress on the canopy open!!!

[@berkhanb]

You didn't even need to do big ears, you could just go out of the cloud to right at 1:36.

[@utahballoonflights2716]

🫨

[@DrAElemayo]

If it was me I’d just try to find lift. I’d start sinking so fast

[@2310Ole]

hahaha@@DrAElemayo

[@airmalik]

@@DrAElemayohaha yes that strategy always works

[@dorinsandu8012]

@@DrAElemayo lol :))

[@iso6390]

I think most things have already been said. First of all thank your for posting the video, it is a good learning opportunity for most of us. I have recently done an SIV and my biggest take-away from that course was: train B-stalls. If I ever find myself in a cloud (which shouldn't happen if the first place) - even if I am unsure about which way is down - I will pull a B-stall (obviously only works for 3 liners). By far the most comfortable decent technique I ever experienced and also takes 0 effort do learn, no G forces, only way is down, more stable if done properly than big ears and speedbar imo. If it becomes unstable you just release, stabilize and pull it again. hope that helps

[@prestonvalora2647]

Thank you for sharing. I am a new pilot. Video like this and thoughtful comments are helping me see potential dangers earlier to avoid situations like this.

[@utahballoonflights2716]

Wise words! Do your best to learn from others. One of the hardest things for me to get a hold of when I was learning, was that having a camera mounted on your helmet or just about anywhere on your body, whilst flying a lined canopy, is potentially deadly and dangerous. Resist the urge to become the next Yewtewb sensation, and just fly fly fly. CHEERS - BSBD

[@modus_ponens]

About month ago I learnt the same lesson. I tried to get out of the cloud with spirals, and also found out it was really difficult, because *the sense of down was instantly lost* when the g-forces of the spiral kicked in. The g-force was the _only_ sense I had to control brake pressure, and that was terrifying. The lift was so strong that I did spirals 4 minutes straight without really going down. *What I learned:* Next time I try to just get out from the side of the cloud by just going straight with speed+ears. It's not really dangerous to be inside cloud (unless it's thunderstorm).

[@piotr.gliniak]

After few minutes in a cloud you paraglider (and you) is going to be wet and it will not fly properly anymore.

[@KouberSaparev]

It will fly even when getting wet. Just push the speed bar.

[@englischdude]

glad you made it safely down to share. enough has been said already, my 5 cents is do a siv and practice a big-ear spiral for rapid decent. a normal spiral, especially on a high performance wing, produces gforce which can be difficult to manage or disorientating. a spiral with bigears has far less g and higher sink rate (if executed properly, 15-18m/sec!. Pull the big ears, if you have 3 A lines per side, take two per so you only have about 2m of wing open. full bar and weight shift into the spiral. to exit, just centre your weight. if you can see any horizon, max sink is achieved when the centre cell of the wing is on the horizon. this manoever i practiced during a siv with x-dreamfly in switzerland. it is my rapid decent of choice. im sure you can find some vids showing the manoever here on YT

[@modus_ponens]

@@englischdude Thanks! Had never heard about this big ears + spiral combo. From the YT videos I watched now, it seems to be both quite efficient and not so high-g. Definitely will test that sometimes soon

[@timothee.gigout-magiorani]

Ended up making a list so I might as well share it, not so much for you but the next guy ; ). Some points are obvious, some less so. There is such a taboo about flying through clouds that I don't think many pilots would know how to handle any better. Unless it's overdeveloping there is likely no need to do anything more dramatic than pointing the wing in the last safe direction and going on speedbar. Frankly I've crossed quite a few clouds already and as long as you have a safe heading to follow on your instrument, you'll be fine. 1) Tactically/performance wise, depending on where you wanted to go there may have been no need to go all the way to cloud base, you could have used the cloud street to move forward w/o getting sucked into it. 2) Apply something like Farina's 45° rule to avoid cloud suck. Plus sometimes, you can still find lifting air on the side of the clouds and cloud surfing is the top1 most magical thing you can do in life. 3) When in very close proximity to clouds like at 1:48, mark a safe heading on your instrument in case clouds form up around you. At 1:55, a simple right turn and following whatever rough heading that was for a few seconds would have been enough to see you through. (for those who have never been into a cloud, you lose your orientation within a few seconds, so you've got to trust your instrument if that ever happens, even something as basic as your compass on XCtrack will do the trick) 4) A spiral quickly accumulates lots of energy, so commit to it and don't go out of it like that. Then when the wing goes all the way behind, going full hands up should be second nature to avoid the wip stall. Then applying 100% breaks. What you did is the entry for a full stall to infinity. TBH, never had to do it "blind" in a cloud but I guess I'm not surprised by the result. It really re-enforces that the best descent technique is to move away from the rising air, and in particular to avoid somewhat complex manoeuver with such low visibility. 5) Reserve throwing was probably the best decision. Probably recoverable but disorientation from both the cloud and a cravate induced spiral is one hell of an unhealthy combination. Waiting for the wing to accelerate a bit more might have resulted in your rescue going right into it. For the record though, there have been cases of people going on a little XC adventure after throwing their reserve while in a thermal... 6) It's pretty much a rule that paragliding lines will always eventually snag on the most inconvenient thing around, so having anything on your helmet is just asking for it. While ground handling I had lines snagging on the goggle strap holder at the back of the helmet and it just sucks so much when that happens. After watching this, I think I'm gonna go duct-tape it or something.

[@sidste]

Thank you for your detailed analysis. I appreciate that very much!

[@PhilippeLarcher]

also having a ton of brakes in lift when yiou don't want to go up might not be ideal

[@renedekker9806]

Agree with the analysis, and especially the part to steer away from the danger. If you would have steered towards the middle of the valley, you likely would have just flown out of the side of the cloud without drama. I wanted to add one thing: when getting close to the clouds like that, pull ears _before_ you are sucked in. It is hard to judge from the video, but I think throwing the reserve was premature. Your glider was still fully open, with no twisted lines, and you were high enough above the ground.

[@theeyeinthecloud]

NOOOOOO! FLYING IN CLOUDS IS FORBIDDEN! Full point. And as a reminder to avoid the situation normally above 300m above ground you are to leave 300m below cloud base VFR RULES. Now that you are in the situation and didn’t anticipate I can feel your stress; here is what you should have done: first head to the edge of the cloud you can see on you right at 1’45. That would have done it. Then big ears is good but wait a little bit, you must kept it for only 10 seconds! You can add accelerator to make it more efficient. And pull even more the ears. Finally, about 360: it is a good practice to train them every flight before landing for example. Good way to get used to Gs. Same observation: you didn’t keep it long enough (ok to get out if disoriented). But try to dissipate the energy by going out in one turn, one 360 slowing down. It is ok to go out like you did, you can train this in basic siv courses. The mistake was more about braking tempo the surge wich resulting in a frontal collapse (totally predictable). Now with that frontal: hands up will get you out. You got also a bit twisted but bringing your feet below your butt would have stabilized. So maybe you didn’t have to throw the reserve but it is good to do it before turning too fast. So great to see you are doing well and thanks for sharing. Remember: stay out of clouds, keep the edge or leave before the base, anticipate (this is collision avoidance with paragliders or ifr planes and safety, and this is the rule). Train 360 regularly and maybe go for Siv course to practice those manoeuvers. Safe flights.

[@renedekker9806]

@@theeyeinthecloud _"you are to leave 300m below cloud base VFR RULES."_ - that rule is only valid in classified airspace, not general for VFR. It is forbidden to fly in clouds, though.

[@Author_G]

Thanks for sharing man - it will help other pilots learn and grow. Your mistake is now a lesson to thousands!

[@johankroes19]

Thank you for sharing!👍 the clouds were high above the mountains, so there was no risk of crashing into one. If you just kept going you probably just flew out it again. Or try to fly straight with big ears until you find sinking air, and then weightshift while maintaining the big ears, and spiral down. Anyway, the best captains are always standing on the shore hey!😜😜. Glad that you’re ok!, it must have been a verry stressfull moment. I wish you meny happy landings!

[@sandrainthesky1011]

You are very brave to have posted this! You really should go do an SIV ASAP as, even though I'm a low hours pilot, I have done one and would have gone big big ears, pulled a collapsed spiral, or a mild spiral and just held it with my eyes on the inner tip. Learn high-G breathing exercises too. They work. Once I was in serious idiot lift (before the SIV) so I know how it feels to not know how deep to react. You survived and are all the better for it :)

[@ArturS0123]

For analysis - if you have some plan at least give a moment for that to work! When you've put big ears I was looking for a speedbar and flying AWAY from the core. The best way to loose altitude is fly away from the lift. Hope the landing was soft and safe. Also worth having small compass - if you loose visibility it helps keep the direction to fly away from danger.

[@jasonsmith6508]

It’s mostly all been said and some very detailed and sound feedback in the comments so you did the right thing posting dude as you will have learned a lot from all this great feedback. Ultimately though dude you lost your cool and rushed through all of your recovery actions. You had time to fly out on a slightly different heading as many have said, you didn’t put enough effort into BIG ears and speedbar, you rushed your spirals and exit, you rushed your reserve throw. I reckon everything you did would have worked before the throw. You just didn’t give any of it a chance. Thanks for sharing though and really glad it ended without injuries 🙏

[@thomasberghofer1840]

Thanks for publishing. Everyone learns from mistakes. First thinks thirst try to put on your ears and step into the speed system and then do very light wingovers, this is the best descent aid i tried. The best way to escape a sucking cloud, like a river or an ocean current, is to fly 90° to the direction of flow to centre a descent outside the cloud. LG

[@jurgenholzhausen2688]

Thanks for sharing this video and your analysis. In 2023 I had a similar expericence for the first time although I fly neary 20 years. It is never to late to learn from mistakes (own and others). The ability to play the video over and over again makes us clear that you should have had to leave the thermal much earlier. What followed was just the pull into the white hole because it kept getting bigger. My conclusion: The closer you get to the cloud, the further away you are from the center of the cloud. Especially if the lift is more than 3 m/s, as this often increases the closer you get to the cloud. Keep a safe distance from the forming cloud with large ears. Performing the spiral without a reference point is a gamble, especially if you've never done it before. As I circle, I note the direction (N-E-S-W) in which I have to escape if losing visibility and fly in that direction. But that's my plan B. Glad that you made it safe home. Regards, Juergen, Germany

[@ChuKoNu06]

Thanks for sharing this. I'm relatively new pilot and this situation is one of my biggest fears.Your analysis is absolutely true. You shouldn't have taken that risk to gain more altitude but anyway it's a good experience since it ended up with a safe landing.

[@Enginair]

ah, the ol "hold my glove" routine @ 2:55

[@joaodaniel3043]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@DonGeorge-jz4er]

Thanks for the training. I'm new to this sport and this is a valuable lesson for me to learn. thanks again. DG.

[@andrewgraham8561]

Things I take note of as I climb to cloud base. 1. How tall are the clouds in the surrounding air. 2. How high above terrain is cloud base? Do I risk hitting obstacles or terrain? 2. How much blue sky is there or is it over developing. What were the clouds like 15 minutes ago. 3. Is there anyone else in my immediate airspace. Can I expect aircraft here? Am I in a common flight path? Is there noone, one PG pilot or a gaggle of 10 above me. 4. What direction do I want to head in and what does the air look like. Where is my next lift? Getting sucked into clouds is scary. Before you go in look at your instruments. Get a good heading and try to stay on course to your next destination if the flying conditions permit. Keep the ground in sight if possible. Make very gentle inputs for course correction an adjust for delay in instrument heading. Remain calm. Especially if the tops of the clouds don't look very high. Stick to outside edges of clouds and avoid flying directly underneath large scary looking ones. Remain calm. 10 Seconds in a cloud feels like 30. Pick your direction, push bar and have faith you will pop out the side. There was a ton of blue air around you.

[@flozi1976]

Best analysis in here! Top! Nothing to add, in my opinion build on top of some personal cloud 'experiences' I proceed exactly the way you described in points 1-4. May be one point more: don't panic if 1-4 are 'ok' ... and keeping the heading may be tricky... you tend to overreact, so keep your Impulses gentle. One last point: spiral down is a really bad idea: you don't know what you have below ... you may have other pilots under, and you plop in them. Seen in Colombia, nothing you want. But: at the end, if clouds gets big, then stay away, that is at the end the best advice. Use the 45° rule, that works.

[@MaEtUgR]

I know it's easier when watching the video but my advice is: 1) Do not panic. The wing was flying perfectly and you are kilometers away from the next obstacle. 2) If you want to escape: a) don't brake b) accelerate c) pull ears and I would have not gone further than that. 3) Do not use fast turns/not so steep spiral in strong lift, you'd need to do a very steep and long one to escape. 4) During spiral look at the inner wing tip to determine steepness and only exit slowly again. I think accelerating and steering towards the most open area would have gotten you out quickly. If in doubt about the direction check your Vario and keep the heading you already have once you lose sight. Hope you're doing well and happy landings. Cheers.

[@flinkermarkus8430]

Thanks for sharing. It can happen so fast to get in the clouds. Its really anoying from 1 sec all good - to see nothing and loose oriantation. Glad you made it home healthy.

[@jotabege]

Thanks for sharing, super useful for us other pilots to learn.

[@antiyachtsailing6112]

Wow amazing video for everyone to learn from! Great reflexes get the reserve out so quickly, and also controlling the glider as to not get tangled in the reserve

[@markjohntowse5347]

Oh man... Where to begin... XC comp and acro pilot here... You already knew you were in/on the edge of cloud, taking a few spirals before you get sucked always works, going forward further is likely to lead to being in stronger lift... and as another guy said, you can fly right at 1.36 in video to the nice big cloud free gap. As for the spirals... Losing orientation??? You go around in a circle and descend at 10m/s for 5 seconds and you are sorted, you can literally do this with your eyes closed (Which they effectively are in cloud I guess...). There was nothing to crash in to and you have 3350m. You could freefall and not hit anything for 5 minutes... Reserve was way too early, just do nothing and let the wing take care of itself; ironically you would have lost enough height to be out of cloud while it was reinflating, you can see this was actually happening in the vid. You freaked in the spiral after barely 2 turns, didn't exit properly so lost canopy pressure and immediately threw - you literally had all the time in the world; nerves can be dangerous, stay cool. Also, if you big ears, prepare to big ears with speedbar from the off. That way if ears works, great, if not, you were already planning to do the other half of the manouver so nothing is a surprise, 2/3ms is doable if you are undercloud surfing. You need SIV and fast :-) Glad it all worked out safe... *NEVER* put a camera on your helmet without an easy release clamp, you will get dragged on launch one day or emergency tangleage might happen in the air, video ego can kill you, knee or chest mount better :-)

[@TLSMatt]

Yes deff get away from the cloud earlier. Big ears and speed bar into the nearest edge / opening would have been good Also you had a ton of height and your glider was in not bad shape , ready to recover. Would have worked on recovery for a bit before throwing reserve Tks for sharing. Glad u are safe

[@CapitaineNautilus]

Scary! Thanks for posting to help others not to make the same mistakes.

[@VosgpattCritic]

Hi there! Good video, it's always important to reflect "what I could do better next time" so that we all can get better pilots. I fly the same wing and have a little experience with it. I won't comment on the going to the clouds, as many people already shared on that. 1- The Iota DLS is a modern B+ that flies best and secure without breaks. In my opinion you use too much break all the time, this makes the wing more prone to collapse. 2- Reaching the cloud you could have gone full speed bar, which could have helped you leave the cloud faster while increasing your sink rate. Turbulence can be managed very good with the rear risers. 3- when you spiral you need to find a stable position that keep the speed and the turn rate. It seems you don't manage it well, the rotation stopped and you don't seem to anticipate the shoot. All Advance iota shoot very hard... Go on SIV and train spirals. Don't do it if you're not comfortable with it. 4- Then you're twisted and get panicked, throw reserve. It's fine and safe, but you were still in the cloud, so at least 800m from the ground according to your measures at the beginning of the video. It could have been worth leaving all brakes free and wait 5 seconds. Most gliders in the B category fly again after such an issue. Don't get it wrong : the reserve was a safe choice. I'm just saying that there were probably other options because you were very high. All in all my advice : invest in SIV trainings, you'll learn to fly with less breaks, you'll be confortable with spirals and you'll be more relax to try other options than the reserve. Oh and my last advice : remove the camera from your helmet. Or make a system where it goes away when a line comes there (a scratch or something) Good luck in your future flights!

[@koerz86]

If you look at the cloud cover and height at the beginning of the video you could have just flown straight ahead without any risk. So much action for nothing.

[@tonydiehl5449]

Big ears plus weight shift spiral maybe would have been more comfortable and safer.

[@E620SE]

and full bar when pulling ears...

[@milossky84]

Thanks for sharing. We all make mistakes, and hopefully someone will learn from yours. Only advice I could give is- always have escape plan. If you’re so close to the cloud never go straight trough the middle of it even if you can see the ground, you’re going to the strongest part and risking being sucked, instead ride on the edge of the cloud base since there is also gonna be some lift, but you’ll have much easier way out.

[@ParaZwerg]

haha, just rememberred a situation years ago where I was flying to close to the clouds and tried with big Wingovers to get down. Didn't work, so had to switch to spiral and was out in few seconds. It was interessting doing Wingovers in the cloud without any reference points, but it worked just as every other day. Back that time Wingovers where my preferred decent method with hard spiral exits. Today in a situation like that, I'd have done big ears earlier and if they are not enough induce some turns to increase the sink rate. Getting older and high G-forces are not that easy compensated anymore...

[@mug6804]

Good job throwing when you did! However, I feel like the situation could have been avoided by being more situationally aware: 1. As you thermalled up you could see numerous clouds building behind the one you were climbing up to - yet you continued to fly in their direction while climbing; thus missing out on your window to descend or fly out of lift while you still had visibility. 2. As someone else mentioned, you still had a window of escape to your right just before you pulled big ears. You could have flown out of the cloud - or at least turned in that direction before you attempted big ears. Is it possible that you were so hyper-focused on flying in a certain direction that you didn't think to take evasive measures that involved a change of heading?

[@andreabertino4408]

Thank you for sharing! And glad that you landed safely without injury! Weren't you afraid to be sucked again in the clouds with the reserve launched and opened so quickly? If the spiral gets too strong I advise you to dampen the energy with the external brake.

[@EliassonAnders]

Thx for sharing, avoid mistakes by learning from others 🙏👍

[@SkywalkerPaul]

Dude, that was wild 😜😮! Glad nothing bad happened!🎉 Woot woot! 😎🪂🤌

[@markmcgoveran6811]

I love you man. I'm not learning to be a paraglider pilot. I'm learning to be an epsilon 9 cloud seeder pilot. First I go to my friend's Farm then I run down his big hill when the wind and the day is perfect and I try to get to cloud base, within 500 ft then I throw out a box of cornstarch and Make It rain. Then I go to town and drink coffee. I tell everybody the reason my friend is rich is because of the extra rain he gets from me flying from his farm. I understand completely what I need to do just as soon as I'm within 500 ft of the cloud Base I dump the cornstarch. Greg hammerton says he has a little bitty pin on magnetic compass in a plastic bubble about the size of quarter. He picks the direction and he flies that way to escape the cloud. He said if you did not have that bearing set with the magnet even if it was roughly and hard to read you still would go in circles. I love math and I found out about a demon. In the wide flat wet planes where I live the cloud on the top of the thermal is not very high. In the vast desert Southwest thermals are so tall, the cloud on top grows so quickly, you cannot fly out of it. At what altitude was the top of the cloud and why did you want to leave out the bottom of the cloud so badly when the wind was blowing straight up so fast? I heard about one guy that took off and flew right into a cloud every time. I'm just a potato you are what you eat I eat a lot of potatoes I'm not a pilot. I know the spiral dive is life threatening. Is there something about a big turbulent cloud of steam that is life-threatening? I picture a thousand different collapses, many of them driven by water, and wet wing math. I don't mean to be derisive in the question but I'm more afraid of the spiral dive then I am the cloud.

[@JMT3406]

Thanks for sharing. I don't think flying in clouds is a safe behaviour, however it's not in French flying rules. Imagine an other guy doing the same at the same level in the same cloud...? You could obviously turn out of it in a clear direction to the right at 1:39. At the altitude you were, there was still a lot of time left to recover the flight if you had kept your brakes in the hands. But you finished safe, it's the most important.

[@JMT3406]

@@captainadhoc9010 it's forbidden in the international VFR rules.

[@minyardmatt]

Besides gliding out of the cloud or other techniques l, I had a few stand out things to share! First of all thx and glad you used the rescue.. I'm also more of a fix it and enjoy flying before throwing kind of guy, but that requires practice and kiting SIV etc .. Having flown in 40+ countries and coaches siv / motor acro etc, I wanted to share a rapid descent technique such as asymmetrical collapse, frontal on the right side or left pick one, turn the opposite way... Great way to escape cloud suck Also catching that massive surge after a spiral seems easy but is super hard when you have vertigo so I understand that is a blurry moment but also next time a tip gets stuck, focus on the heading control and clearing it out. You have plenty of time at altitude to sort it out if you have experience 😊. Still happy you tossed and landed safe, I would have personally done the frontal and lean the other way aka rapid descent and or glider out the side if I saw an opportunity or a helicopter to enjoy the white room myself! Cheers and happy flying days ahead for you!

[@marco1987warr]

Thanks for sharing.

[@andyaim4764]

Dangerous sports are aptly named, I knew scuba diving was a dangerous sport but thought it’ll never happen to me, equipment failure and buddy separation at 100 feet under the sea at precisely the same time. I made it out and I’m glad you did too, some of us don’t. In retrospect I didn’t fully appreciate how dangerous it was and went on the kind faith of it won’t happen to me.

[@aircloud1]

If you climb good, over 3 or 4 m/s you have to fly away from the base 300/400m under the cloud. The rules are to stay sightable, but as we all know.... Its better to escape the climb than sucked into the cloud. But i think, now you know this.

[@svetre87]

Thanks for the video. It helps a lot to be prepared, that means, for example: know an escape route (in this case flying to the right), train and know how to properly spiral (this wasnt a spiral at all), learn how to spiral with big ears or with a collapse, etc.. but still you have my respect, for posting this video and exposing yourself to all the keyboard warriors (myself included) :)

[@jpcab9460]

Seems like the comments covered most of the talking points. Honestly spiraling in clouds really sucks once you lose your horizontal reference point. Get really comfortable with your backfly and use that as your safe descent with directional control. I once got sucked into a cloud at 10m/s with rain and the whole bit. Eventually used backfly to drop down 3000ft and out of the cloud. It was pretty terrifying at the time but also keep in mind that if your reserve descends at 5m/s and you're climbing way faster than that, your reserve is not always going to be the best option to get out. Live and learn... and practice acro.

[@tubemaxe]

A wet glider and backfly (or b-stall) is a bad combination. The glider could get stuck in the stall even letting go the brakes. Even in dry conditions you stay in the lift zone and you will get sucked in again. The safest escape stategy is speed + ears: its flyable in bumpy conditions, very stable (no risk of collapse or stall) and you leave the lift zone. If you have a higher aspect ratio two-liner, on which ears are difficult, you should have the experience to avoid getting sucked in clouds in the first place.

[@jpcab9460]

@@tubemaxe A wet glider can definitely get stuck parachutal at which point you add a little bar and you're flying again. But I really don't see a reality where a wet glider will not shoot out of backfly if you let it. That seems a little ridiculous considering you're adding weight to a wing that is trying to regain airspeed which makes it shoot harder. Sure cravats stick in but that's the least of your problems. Considering people have died getting sucked into storms trying to ride it out, stalling a wet wing isn't a bad alternative since you still have directional control to get away from the lift. I mean shit, I've watched a friend tumble an acro wing that was sopping wet from a lake dunk. Sure it sucks, but wet wings still fly. If you're in a cloud you have plenty of height to sort out the exit once you're not ascending at 10m/s. If speed bar + ears gets you out, great, if not, hopefully you have something else up your sleeve.

[@lottofischer]

Good reserve throw! If you loose the orientation in the spiral exit it but put all weight shift to the inside. This should reduce the pitch a lot.

[@stevenmellet5555]

I don't know if your Advance recommends it, but the option to B-line stall was probably a good one if the glider's manual does allow it. You then don't change heading, and lose orientation. If you have a compass on XCTrack or your instrument, you can maintain a heading and lose height while flying in a straight line.

[@floriandraxler3868]

i have been once up in a cloud where i could barely see a faint hint of ground coming through and immediately felt heavily disoriented, would have liked to see you reach the ground savely

[@dewibermingham816]

The important points are 1) don't add energy to the point where you might invert/deflate. 2) Carry an instrument that will guarantee you can hold a heading even in rough air and hold that heading until you pop out. And 3, I guess if in trouble wait before throwing the reserve. You were very high! The glider might even recover. I often flew my hang glider in cloud in the past (be sure you are alone of course). My instrument back then was a turn and slip. A modern smart phone might even be enough now, not that I've tried one for this purpose. The first time is scary, but stick to the rules and you soon find you are fine.

[@etiennelavigueur2955]

Hi =) thanks for sharing, I learned. I'm happy everything went well. To my fellow sky friend, I want to ask: Do the wing can freeze if the air is around zero?

[@MrUltrasound]

B line stall also option if you have enough risers :

[@reggiepaulk]

No one is commenting on what happens when an airplane on an IFR flight plan slams into a glider in the clouds… cloud clearance requirements aren’t there for no reason.

[@chrisriehl1696]

Maybe a b line stall instead of a spiral... Definitely take an SIV course and stay out of those clouds❤

[@giuliovattai770]

Hello just made a siv and learned to spiral with big ears just by weight shifting. I used speedbar to. the g forces are way less and you go down faster then with normal spiral. Dont know if it would have been better but i probably would have done that

[@hofercedric2744]

Hei exciting video. I don't think the climb was your problem. If the cloud had pulled you would have had more surface area with the canopy and parachute and you would have been dead. I assume this is the first time you've come so close to a cloud. You can fly out with the help of the gps without ears without any problems. It's important to trust your gps, not your instinct. But it's extremely important that you practise this. Look for clouds with a gentle rise on days with a low base. Fly to the edge and get used to it. Then keep coming in more and more and you will realise that with gps you will always keep your bearings. By the way, quiq out carabiners are not expensive, even for cross-country pilots

[@JK-vm9pu]

Cool, you can see the wing closer to the reserve. ULS line system is longer than lower rated. Getting nervous is no good.

[@shogun9x1]

First of all you could escape in your right as it looks like was some clear space there. Secondly big ears and speed bar to maximise decent. If sucked into cloud ,and I am speaking from experience , the best way is to if possible zoom in your map on mobile phone app, before being sucked check your compas and heading and just fly straight or where you estimated the cloud ends on the best 45 degrees rule. Heppend to me few times than being sucked thinking I am flying straight felt than I am in spiral dive without any imput. If clod base is much higher than the peaks I would if possible wait with rescue until clearing the cloud. Best advice is to get yourself a compas or vario with good compas and avoid spirals with no visual reference. Try fly straight one direction possibly away from the mountain range.

[@pithoffstetter8970]

The clouds seem to me petite (not going high up) so next time just wait until it pops you out on the top... nothing to worry....

[@davinderc]

Yeah, who needs to be visible anyways... Airplane pilots just need to listen carefully for the sounds of the beeping Vario and move out of the way...

[@PiSaLoMi]

@@davinderc that was not my point: The fact is he made a first mistake in flying too close to the clouds, and then the second one, which was avoidable and could have led to fatal injury. So my point is, don't risk your life just for legal regulations, which in this case don't make sense. So be happy and obey the rules…

[@E620SE]

@@davinderc and when still climbing on the reverse? there was a case where the flying huge distance under the reserve (I think it was 50k)

[@davinderc]

@@E620SE what are you talking about? Climbing on the reserve? Flying huge distance under the reserve? 50k? Lol

[@davinderc]

@@PiSaLoMi what was your point? Are you even replying to the right thread? You're not the original commenter and I don't see anything else from you here. I thought my sarcasm was clear, the pilot in the video becomes invisible in the clouds and cannot see anything else. I'm also pretty sure you can't hear someone's vario if you're in an airplane

[@alexsakon]

glad that you're safe, but I don't think doing big ears in lift would help much, but better to run away from the lift. My first instinct if i'm in cloud suck (of course option 1 being not get cloud sucked in the first place) would be to speedbar my way out of lift. I can see how you can get disoriented in the white room but it appears to me that you didn't commit on spiral and instead pulled the brakes in panic (understandable when you are totally disoriented) and had a near stall, then let the canopy shoot forward without checking the surge, which caused you to almost fall into the canopy. either way, good for you on coming out safely, happy flights in the future!

[@nico_albrecht]

Why not fly to the right. A big open space on the edge on the cloud? Maby tunnel vision and the a long break from flying?

[@sidste]

Yes, know in retrospective I also don‘t quite understand why i didn‘t just fly to the right.

[@marcelburkard7704]

@@sidste overreacted, maybe due to fatigue or in chilling mode ;-) turn 45 degrees, accelerate and ears...glad you are fine! it was a good lesson for sure

[@paraglidingSafety]

How many times have you done spirals before? How many days of siv ever and in the last 2 years?

[@tonydegeneve5926]

Could you publish the rest of the descent and a link to the igc gps file? I would like to see the fall under the reserve parachute despite the mirror effect. I hope you don't have any injuries. were you able to neutralize the wing easily?

[@AvengerIl]

Thanks for sharing! How comfortable are you spiraling on a normal day? Practiced much? It's interesting to note that cloud lack of visibility is something to consider... I hope In that situation I would stay a little longer on big ears and bar on course till I hit some sink.... I had to spiral away from an angry eagle yesterday, it worked great, he couldn't hit me, but my descent rate would not get me out of lift... Ie my spirals are gentle. 5ms descent rate at best.

[@sidste]

Thanks for your comment! I'm actually quite comfortable doing spirals. But I have to add here, that I was not used enough to do it on this new glider and I also completely underestimated the effect of doing it within a cloud without having any reference points. I definitely need to add up my skills there. Glad to hear that the eagle didn't catch you :)

[@Sethgolas]

Any reason you didn't consider a B line stall?

[@minibroncogermany]

Isn’t there a distance you have to keep to the clouds? Maybe but only maybe people had something in mind other than being annoying when they set this distance …. And no maybe it’s not only the planes. ✈️ Good thing you’re alive … more luck than competence I guess. Thanks for sharing ❤

[@ericoschmitt]

Just imagine if there was a kind of wing with a rigid structure inside where you could just dive in and go down really fast, avoiding this situation and having loads of fun in the air? Damn...

[@tonydegeneve5926]

Did you manage to neutralize the wing before impact? it would have been interesting to see it hit the ground. I myself used my emergency parachute last week

[@ZazaParagliding]

need to learn how to get out off a spiral... this was bad hahah thank gor ur ok :D

[@92655724]

Why are you not using the speedbar when gliding? You double your sink rate just by using it, and it's often enough to avoid getting gray.

[@Random-es7yo]

You pulled the brakes exiting the spiral, then when the wing was behind you let them go. Then did not catch the surge. If you are not far from Annecy I would recommend a trip to Flyeo. Most of their SIV course is pretty much to do with exactly those things.

[@utahballoonflights2716]

Glad you are uninjured and quite a bit wiser for your experience. Here’s some friendly advice from the skydiving world. Cameras can really be a problem with paraglider lines and parachute lines. So much so that it can mean the difference in life or death. In fact, Cookie brand helmets make a cutaway system for cameras. You simply pull a small handle near your chin and it releases the camera if there is an entanglement. I would highly recommend something like that, and at the bare minimum a hook knife to hack your way out of a potentially deadly situation. Lines can be replaced quite easily. I’ve heard a couple stories of jumpers that said “that $12 hook knife saved my life“. Cheap insurance if you ask me which you’re not, but I’m gonna tell you anyway 😊 CHEERS. BSBD🎉

[@safranpollen]

Ä Finschderwalder Trennkarabiner isch hald einfach e fini Sach😁🐣🌈🙏

[@PedroMarcos-jv8pu]

Why you didnt do BigEars + Full Bar first?

[@RolloWi]

Sometimes u have to accelerate ur glider. C-line steering. Fligh out an away. 🙈

[@Stefan-Para]

Mich würde interessieren, wie viel Flugstunden du schon hast und ob du meinst, der Iota sei der richtige Schirm für dich? Das ist nicht böse gemeint. Ich fliege 140 Stunden im Jahr und bin erst im Winter von Epsi auf den Iota gegangen. Ich glaube, ein schneller Aufstieg ist oft problematisch. Der Iota hat lange Leinen, deswegen ist die Spirale auch etwas anders als beim Epsi - und das Aufstellen und Schießen nach einer "schnellen" - oder sagen wir "verbockten" Ausleitung auch.

[@E620SE]

that escalated quickly

[@iamkian]

Why did you not try B lining down?

[@BaSiC47]

Rapid exit on the Spiral resulted in the wing shooting forward and pilot not braking it down properly.

[@PeterBuschbacher]

To avoid cloud-suck I try to use Full Bar - straight Flying early. Slowly gaining heght flyinig straght with Big Ears can also be quite cool uner a cloud street - as long as there is alwaiys oriebtation for a way out. Seems you did not have that in mind - still on the breaks in the mode to gain maximum heght in min 1:11 looks like that. Thx for the reminder anyway - we are very small - against the forces of meteo...

[@TokyoNightGirl-fk4cn]

💞Wow💗💗💛💗💗💗💗

[@paulino3320]

I fly over 200h per year but I´m not able to spiral even if I tried it 100 of times.... I always lose orientation.... a sI have sometimes cloud suck I fund out that big ears fully accelerated are always the best way to escape...... tried also B-Stall and other things but big ears safed me lot of times as the glider is still stabel even in rough conditions and you are able to escape in acertain direction......

[@Marotonella]

Easier said than done in the heat of the moment but if you have delay the deploy of your reserve until you had "fall" out of the cloud it could have made your descent safer. From the cozzy comodity of my computer I can tell you that you don't want to deploy more wind sail when you're in a problematic situation caused by the wind. You colapse your sail as you did and then wait, if your reserve is going to work here is going to work lower (were no cloud dinamics are so present) and if not you're done any way. Again, just saying from my confy room

[@DrAElemayo]

You’re so lucky you managed to descend under the reserve and not continue to go up.

[@JK-vm9pu]

What do You weight on what size wing?

[@sidste]

70kg body weight (80-85kg in total) on wing 23 (75-85kg ideal weight)

[@JK-vm9pu]

@@sidste hm, same wing as mine. But I have like 10kg more in total.

[@priicey3]

Looks like you didnt bleed out the energy when you finished spiralling, causing the wing to shoot

[@MKHNitro]

Best you do an SIV course and learn some rapid descent techniques

[@SurvivalSquirrel]

There was an opening, but you flew into the cloud... why?

[@OffSurfaceAdventures]

Like in competitions fly out in a stright line. You should know where the exit is.

[@J0Reis]

Thanks for sharing, everyone benefits from these. Was the spiral exit voluntary, i.e. I don’t know where up is anymore / this is too many G’s - I should ease up on my inside brake, or did you not realize you were easing up on your inside brake? In principle, a deep spiral dive can be flown with your eyes closed. As long as you weightshift inside, pull the brake progressively and keep it deep once you’re nose down there’s not much to keep track of until you need to exit - assuming you have height and there is no one flying under you. Here you had at least 700m between cloudbase and terrain: that’s over 35 seconds to start exiting once you regain orientation, even at a -20 m/s spiral. Obviously you shouldn’t get in this situation in the first place. That being said, a less timid, more committed spiral dive would have kept this situation quite benign.

[@sidste]

Thanks for your comment. Yes I remember that I wanted to exit / slow down the spiral as I was losing orientation and the G‘s felt probably stronger than they were.

[@J0Reis]

@@sidste Thanks for sharing. I believe spiral dive G-force does go up a little as you move up into higher performance wings, so slightly higher G's than you were used to might have been there. Then again, this could have just been you getting nervous because you were in the cloud and not a result of the wing. Better energy conservation on a rapid exit - and therefore a more punishing surge - are also to be expected. I wish you safer escapes from cloud suck in the future !

[@charliemotakpochop]

Dude, where is the landing! Good lesson btw ..

[@mikhailk3572]

Well known fact , every super pro pilot in the clouds without instrument reference lost attitude control less then 20 sec.

[@WuTangChillaBee]

Problem is you said "getting close to cloud" when you were already entering it. So no surprise you made this mistake as your judgement is clearly not good. You potentially could have turned right into the clearer space between cloud. Should have pushed speed bar earlier or in combination with big ears. Would have been fine with that tiny cravat, albeit stressful, you need not need to throw reserve for that! But yes, all good learning when you can walk away. Its a testament to the passive safety of todays equipment. Just dont rely on it too often! 😅

[@KouberSaparev]

It was your first spiral wasn't it?

[@cabanford]

Clouds are always scary. Glad you're okay.

[@sebcam9498]

It’s not recommended to fly close to them either

[@cabanford]

@@sebcam9498 shit happens. Trust me I know 😜

[@wildniscamper7276]

i guess you are nr.1 in the rank of the highest reserve throws😂

[@Murdock76er]

High alpin and going down on the rescue parachute. Not my first choice

[@sidste]

This is not in high alpine region. The mountains are only around 2k.

[@coryturner9140]

Nobody does a b line stall anymore?

[@E620SE]

no. spiral or ears

[@coryturner9140]

@@E620SE a spiral in a cloud without spatial orientation is a bad idea, big ears gives you about 4-6m/s and a b-line gives you 8-10m/s…. I guess I always skirted the clouds when I got near cloud base so I did get sucked up in them…

[@E620SE]

@@coryturner9140 yeah but you asked if nobody's doing the b stall

[@PieterBaele]

no on a lot of wings it's not recommended anymore...

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

You have no idea which way is up or down and you want to do maneuvering?

[@user-gi3vk4ys2p]

spiraling in a cloud for no good reason

[@christophostrowski3382]

Do not go too near to the clouds... it could kill you!

[@LukeSchneider]

Long way down bro :) Add to the list: - need a magnetic camera holder for the camera ;) Wouldn't you have made it without throwing the reserve? There was just a minor cravat on the left, which you would have gotten out eventually. Thanks for sharing.

[@sidste]

Thank for your comment! Yes, a magnetic camera holder is def on my buy list. I also thought about if I actually needed to throw the reserve. I threw it out of a very quick reflex. In retrospective after seeing the video and also due to the big high I probably could have saved it without the reserve. But there's also the risk that things would get worse real quick and I wouldn't be able to throw the reserve reasonably. So I guess, better save than sorry. Btw: The way down on the reserve took me over 7min :)

[@ParaKiteGliding]

Velcro tape is another option.

[@RaphiJegerParagliding]

I will add a my own very clever and neat magnetic mount to my shop at www.aufwind.ch soon. Glad you are okay!

[@leah.internet]

@@sidste Do you have footage of where you landed? That would be a fun video to watch.

[@bbenezra1169]

I have no doubt it’s a dangerous sport

[@flyingpowdergodable]

Basicly, everything you could make wrong, you did it.🙈🙈🙈

[@kelvinvanbaalen6495]

Going into cloud is the best. We used to climb sometimes 1000 meters in the cloud (if base was low and it wasnt overdevloping). Next time just pick a heading and fly straight. You will pop out in the calm air and be a few hundred meters above the cloud. Bliss.

[@Vindolin]

Going into cloud is best?? That's the most idiotic and irresponsible thing I read all week. Pilots like you should have their license revoked.

[@michlblacksmith]

Not recommended. There was just last year an accident which ended fatally when two pilots tried your advice.

[@kelvinvanbaalen6495]

@@michlblacksmith okay not 2 pilots. We'd only do it if we knew we were alone haha.

[@michlblacksmith]

@@kelvinvanbaalen6495 That's what they've thought - did not end well.