Park And Ride Done Wrong | Why These Chargers Miss The Mark

[@VVellieMan]

As a Renault Zoe owner with no CCS this is my dream site. You have no idea how hard it is to find a "rapid" AC charger that (a) isn't blocked and (b) actually works when out and about. Nice video though...

[@hiqbal3967]

This man is going to create a video on every EV charging point in the UK

[@the_none_believer]

🥱

[@malcym3394]

Well, maybe every charging point near the M6 north of Birmingham

[@markwringe2826]

I agree with almost everything you say here, Dave. But - 'who uses 50 kwh chargers'? I do! And lots and lots and lots of people like me. I have a Hyundai Kona that is just coming up for 3 years old. It charges at a max of 78 for a short period during the cycle, and then drops down to just over 50, lower still when it gets near 80%. Reason 2: The nearest chargers offering more than 50 are just under 100 miles from me - Tesla open-to-all, and of course I use them when I'm in those places. Ultra-rapid chargers may be common near motorways, but are exceedingly rare in rural Scotland.

[@charlesbridgford254]

Yeah I like 50kW DC chargers. BMW i3, 50kW max anyway. It means that 50kW chargers are often quiet, but 50kW is plenty fast enough for an i3.

[@DJBaldPaul]

Those rapids clearly are not for use by people that are taking the bus into town, they are there for people that need a "quick" top-up, thats why theres a time limt of 1 hour to prevent them getting blocked. I agree it would make sense to upgrade them but they were installed in a time when 50kW was perfectly adequate.

[@TechTravel-up2cx]

Hi Dave, I think you're a little too dismissive of 50kW chargers. Whilst I agree that nobody should be fitting any new 50kW units, existing ones still have utility for older EVs. There are plenty of EVs out there which can only charge at rates below 100kW, where a 50kW charger is not a terrible proposition. I have an e-Niro from 2022 and it can charge at up to 77kW, but some of the charging curve is below 50kW. As such, I'll sometimes use an older 50kW unit at motorway services rather than block one of the much faster ones that I can't fully take advantage of. I'm not sure I'd want to stop at this particular location, however. The lack of facilities (as you suggest) make it a rather unattractive site for stopping.

[@sargfowler9603]

Perhaps a coffee shop might turn up at some point?

[@dangerdaveofdevon]

This one saved my life. I had rocked up at a south bound motorway services on the M6 North of here only to discover a pair of gridserve chargers. The free one would only deliver 10kw to my car and a Kona connected to the other half. A motorbike was ac charging on the other charger which the motorcyclist did not want to share. I took about 35mls charge which got me to the park and ride. We ate our packed lunch and charged successfully.Shame there wasn't a toilet there though. Also this site has ready access to the M6.

[@robinbennett5994]

There are plenty of 40kWh Leafs like ours, for which a 50kW charger is still very useful. As Dave says though, there are cheaper alternatives, with better facilities (although possibly not with Chademo plugs!)

[@waynemandco]

Well said, like you I have an ev that is sub 100Kw and as owner of MG ZSev (Mark 1) it wont charge on a Tesla "Open to all" charger" withour a £450 plus vat mod.

[@udtrev]

MG5 cannot use Tesla chargers, and have a max of 50kwh

[@grahamleiper1538]

Park & rides were a very common place for early charger installs. Generally council owned so no planning issues. In Scotland it would be CPS and those 50kW chargers could well have a wholly inadequate 30 minute time limit. My local one has a single 50kW, but at least it's walking distance to Tesco for facilities. Tesco now has chargers so more chance I'd use them instead. They're better than no chargers, but they really need to drop prices to compete when there are alternatives.

[@tungro]

I've used these on a long distance journey - at the time there were no better chargers just up the road, just a pair of ecotricity ones. It made a lot of sense to charge at this P&R where there were three times the number of rapid chargers than the services - much less likely to all be full. I had preferential rates via a deal from the manufacturer of my car at the time so cost was much better than public rates. Thank goodness charging provision at services have gotten so much better. When these were installed, this was almost the only option. Happy we now are spoilt for choice (in comparison!)

[@flaw3dgenius222]

79pence, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask

[@bikeman123]

10:07 Listen again

[@flaw3dgenius222]

​​@@bikeman123 Yeah thats a different charger and most cars can only take 11kws... Need to be there for 8 hours 😅

[@rickyjulian496]

There's a dogging spot right near there. Plenty of fun to be had when you're 😉😉 going for a top up ...

[@kcebliks]

Wasn't each post on the AC chargers, dual sockets, so 12 not 6 AC charge points.

[@wayneblackburn9645]

Looks like they're close enough that each only covers one parking space though.

[@DB25k]

Right on the button, dave. For finding pointless charging locations with uneconomical changing tariff prices.

[@charlesflouvat1829]

And a regular interweb connection 😂, cash slot needed.

[@Gazer75]

No idea why anyone would use chargers with these insane prices. We had some CPOs that tried for the longest to charge 6-8 NOK/kWh (43-57p) here and the sites were often empty, These days the most expensive is 43p and many are down around 36p.

[@solentbum]

Several years ago, when these chargers were installed, there was great uncertainty about what chargers to put where.. MOst EVs at that time only took 50Kws . A park and ride site seemed to be the right place several years ago. Hindsight is wonderful. May I suggest you negotiate with the relevant council about the matter.

[@stephenbagwell8275]

The car park next to Llandudno train station is how it should be. £2.50 for up to 12 hours parking. AC charging at 34p per kWh plus 20p connection fee

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Whilst this site needs more chargers to align with demand. The 50DC/43AC kW chargers are still of use, as many of the more affordable EVs come with sub 100kW CCS charging (the Dacia spring models come to mind). Not everyone needs to charge at a cars full whack all the time, indeed its better for the battery's longevity to limit rapid+/ultra-rapid charging. There are many of the park and ride sites that rolled out chargers similar to this - as at the time the 50kW AC/DC chargers were cutting edge. The intent of the councils was to provide the fast chargers for park and ride customers and the rapid 50kW ones for community charging (away from main arteries to prioritise local access). This is why the time limit signage is present. Trying to portray this as a greenwash conspiracy misses the point of what councils intended with these cars parks. It also misses the point that a mix of needs is present, not every charger has to be 100kW+. Indeed Tesla recognise this themselves which is why the have the Telsa Destination charger network. Pricing wise some of the Tesla open to all supercharger sites are not far off the 65p per kW mark. Indeed some exceed this, Portsmouth comes to mind at 80 to 90p per kW.

[@barnseyfrommossley]

They would be able to install 80 x 7kw chargers for the power being supplied to the site. These would be perfect for a park and ride where the car is going to parked all day. If the price was 30-40p/kWh it would attract EV owners to visit Lancaster.

[@capnkirk5528]

It MIGHT be "malicious compliance". BP corporate has said put in EV chargers, local operating management has said "We'll show THEM. NOBODY wants EVs". As a project manager I once worked on a $500K capital project not counting wages, that's just capital and it would be equivalent to at least double that now since this was 1990. Local general manager told me over lunch they "didn't want it, nobody wanted it and it was going to fail - just a stupid boondoggle". The guy that replaced him was much more agreeable and the project was a success (about 40% IRR, but also avoided a relocation). Big corporations can be FULL of long-tenure people unable to change their ways. (Just read the comment on any pro-EV channel). EDIT: SInce I'm Canadian (I wish I could move to Britain now that the major pain from a foolish Brexit choice is over), I did not realize that it was possible for these chargers to have been PAID FOR WITH PUBLIC MONEY. If that's the case, it's almost certainly malicious compliance both from BP AND the local council manager.

[@moragkerr9577]

The triple-plug ones are the same model as the ChargePlace Scotland one in the village where I live. Just the one charger, maximum stay 55 minutes. Wee tearoom nearby (when it's open). It's fine for people in the village who don't have home chargers, or for people visiting nearby. Great wee amenity. But a row of them in a park-and-ride by a motorway? Who are they kidding? (Oh, and every time I plug in to the CCS it throws an error and I have to unplug and let it reboot before I can use it. Except I haven't used it for over a year since they doubled the price to 60p.)

[@michaelgoode9555]

You started by saying that these are old units. They will have been there a long time before the Gridserve at Lancaster Services. As for who would use them? Well, on our trip to Orkney this year we considered stopping there and leaving the car taking a top up whilst we popped into Lancaster to meet friends and get some lunch. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean that nobody wants to use them.

[@bikeman123]

He did explain that there was a 1 hour parking limit so what you planned would not be possible. Had you watched the video...

[@johndoyle4723]

No where near Kirkby Lonsdale, 10 mins into Lancaster on the bus. There is a big Holiday inn over the road, much used by business people during the week and they can and do use these. As you pointed out the card readers have been well used. Yes they are old and only 50Kw so they are no longer the first choice for many, but they pre date all the Gridserve and the Burton north bound services, and surprisingly for BP they are reliable. They used to be the best you could get in the area, but now need updating. Many people using the park and ride are not using the bus into Lancaster they are meet and ride sharing, The Holiday inn got sick of people using their car park for ride sharing.

[@Worfedia]

Love your channel and the enthusiasm of your presentation m8 but “who uses 50KW?” Plenty of people entering 2nd hand EV market now using 50KW chargeable cars - BMW i3, Ioniq electric, VW e golf, to name but a few - we want in but can’t all always afford more:)

[@Jaw0lf]

Well said Dave, back to the destination chargers 7-11kWh would be far more appropriate as you can park and ride whilst charging. But you need parking allowances for long term parking whilst charging. This is a common problem that the UK need to address, as it is the need for destination chargers that is higher in my opinion. Also destination chargers need to be 30p or less! BTW You need to reposition the other videos to watch to a lower position as they are right across your face.

[@darrents44]

They have that in China, where it's now 70% EV, according to the taxi driver we had. Long and short term charging and more stations than you can shake a stick at.. Also for portable ev's like bikes, scooters, tut tut's etc..

[@gerbre1]

German EV driver for 5.5 years here. I wouldn't be so critical with the triple chargers. As he said in the video those are very old chargers belonging to a time when Leafs and Zoes were hot shit. And I have never seen 6 of them in a row here in Germany, mostly one, not more than two. That charging location must have been one of the largest in the UK. One should say thank you for BP for still maintaining them. Of course these chargers were installed for travelers on the highway and some old EVs are still charging there I guess. Maybe a new charging hub with lots of hyperchargers, toilets and a small shop will not be profitable or there isn't enough electric power available. We don't know. I think it's a cool retro place.

[@ianemery2925]

I cant wait to hear the rant, when you visit one of the few Manchester Metro car parks with chargers - advertised as 11KW, I got 2.4KW; from only one of the two working, the others were either flashing red, or failing to connect to the payment system.

[@stephenbagwell8275]

The one’s at Whitefield usually work but there’s a parking restriction so that you may risk a fine if you leave your car there to fully charge

[@melcragg7814]

If you are leaving your car for the day you only need 7kwh chargers max. Cheap infrastructure so you could put lots in.

[@marvinsamuels1237]

My 2021 Ioniq have never charged quicker than 47kW even on a Tesla V2 Supercharger, but I get your point Dave, 50kW chargers are somewhat behind the times now. That whole site has been really poorly planned. I can imagine someone saying "the site isn't getting used, there isn't demand, there was no point bothering...."

[@cassopsnoxdigger614]

those are the ones i mentioned on yesterdays video...also the BP ONES with the blue lights...ARE NOT CONTACTLESS !

[@geralddavison]

They've been in since about 2020 I think... I used them a few times with the Nissan Leaf I had at the time. I used to plan to use and have a picnic in the car. I used the McDonalds just a few 100 metres away for coffee and toilets before starting a charge. They were one of the first multiple "rapid" sites on the northern M6 and were actually quite useful for a year or so. Since Gridserve added multiple chargers at Burton in Kendal I have passed them by.

[@Mchooligan09]

Bang on Dave - BP greenwashing at the behest of the local council perhaps? Can you check out what's happening at the Flag Market carpark in Chorley? New CBC Council chargers have been installed (as of yesterday not commissioned) but have gone from free to 46p/kw. They were 7kwh chargers but not sure of the rating now.

[@rickyjulian496]

Is it free to park there for a charge?

[@Mchooligan09]

No but it's only £1 for 2 hours (2 hr max stay)

[@rickyjulian496]

@@Mchooligan09 that's rubbish that you can't leave it charging for longer than 2 hours. Somebody local with no driveway could have used it to charge their car with a 70kwh battery to charge fully overnight and then having to pay extra to park.

[@Mchooligan09]

The car park charges apply from 8am- 5pm. People used to leave their cars overnight but I think the Council then started turning them off at 6 or 7 pm. Could be wrong but free charging overnight was never going to last.aybe they will leave the new ones on overnight now that they are costing 46p/kWh.

[@barrymurton8988]

Have you tried contacting the council Dave? Destination charger would be fine for park and ride, shoppers/commuters , but yes it needs more!

[@waynemandco]

Properbly not, as that really would be takening it on

[@PaddyLectric]

If there was the possibility to get some snacks, it would be the perfect location for an electric motorcycle group ride. A very special use case, I know. 😅

[@keithdenton8386]

Look they are chargers for people to use. Does it matter if you need a top up to get you to where you are going or even to the next charger. They are not often used so you will be sure of a plug in. Don't knock it. Better to have them than not, I say.

[@geoffjolliffe6509]

Not what we would want now but right up the M6 there was a dearth of chargers when these were put in So out if date now but thena godesend to some

[@Thebrainymonkey]

I think theae slower chargers have their uses, especially if you're going to be parked there for most of the day. But they definitely have to be more numerous and much, much cheaper than the high powered units. Possibly, just slightly above cost of the electricity for those who can't charge at home or have much older vehicles that can't do 150+Kw/h.

[@gazzaman28]

Totally agree, Dave. Another option which I'd like to see for park & ride is 25kW CCS with no time restrictions, that matches well with 22kW AC. I believe the Kempower chargers can implement this pretty easily. And this should all be at a maximum of 45p/kWh in my opinion. Are we asking too much here?

[@mistercircus]

Dave, I have an Atto 3 and it will charge up to 80kw and that's absolutely fine for me. We take 6-800km trips fairly regularly. We usually stop 3 times, twice for a bathroom break/coffee, and once fur lunch. We charge while we're parked and usually the car is full before we're done. Why do we need faster charging?

[@2011ppower]

Lack of joined up thinking fairly typical of UK infrastructure in general☹

[@Gazer75]

@2:45 I do all the time. My e-Golf is limited to 40kW :P Most Type 2 units here cost 4.00-4.99 NOK or around 31-36p/kWh.

[@danielaumlaut]

There are Ionity chargers with 12 bays just down the road towards the town centre. You can even go to the restrooms at the golden arches.

[@caterthun4853]

Shell charger one mile into Lancaster

[@globallordtom]

Didn't look like it mentioned a fine though... Although there was a camera overlooking. Is it right that all new car parks have to include EV charge points now?.. though I don't think regulations state how fast they have to be or how many..

[@terrymackenzie6784]

We have the same crazy set up here in the Portsmouth Park and Ride with some 50kW chargers for taxi only and some 3kW charges that I don't think work, you would think it would be an ideal place for chargers as there are at least some toilets there. To be fair the slow chargers have been there for over 8 years so it's about time they were updated with something useful.

[@gavjlewis]

We have these exact rapids at our park and ride. They are good if you turn up to use the park and ride but all the 7kw units are full. So when you get back you can actually get some charge. 30 min will get you about the same charge as about 4 hours on the 7kw unit. Obviously they are less likely to be used now as there are lots of other charging locations about. But these units were put in in 2017 and back then other options were limited. The local McDonald's or the KFC for instance didn't have the instavolt chargers they have now. I guess when they are eventually past economical repair they may use the available site power to add 40 new 7kw spaces. Obviously these original polar units were put in using government funding. Any new chargers will need to be economically viable by themselves.

[@jeffg9706]

I think the one hour no return in two hours is for ICE vehicle reasons and take a look around and see, No one is charging because most people charge from home, I would use them if i visit Lancaster.

[@davidbarr5783]

I used to use it when I had a Zoe ZE40 Q90 but not anymore as I have a MG5. And there is Ionity just a 15 min walk away next to Macdonald's

[@caterthun4853]

Have not visited Lancastler park and ride for some time. We visit Lancaster. The reason . When it opened we visted just to find no toilet facilities. The site is not near any . Arriving of the motorway. The first thing required is personal discharge. Not car charge..

[@sargfowler9603]

Proper busy there today Dave! I guess if you really, really need one, then it's there for you, but as you say, there are some up and down the M6. Shame there weren't so many at Bolton where it would make more sense (apart from the 1hr max stay).

[@cletchford]

Dave. I use BP Pulse/Polar chargers as I have a Motability vehicle which gives me BP membership and 20% discount of the charge price.

[@trisknight9430]

Dave our ID3 recently at Tesla supercharger most I would get was 47 kWh 30% left before charging and battery was warm from long run so not all cars can get above this unless they are near empty

[@gards1988]

Although i agree the price doesnt make massive sense here especially with the new ionity chargers 2 mins down the road next to McDonald's, these chargers though were put in during the making of the car parks due to the new bypass to heysham and morecambe. You cany expect companies to just keep replacing chargers to up chargers all the time.

[@smc812]

Those AC chargers each allow 2 connections, so there's 12 cars that could be changing. 12 out of 400 is 3%, UK is currently 3.8%. In terms of price if you become a member of Pulse it's 44p which isn't the worst in the world. I park at by the train station in Maidenhead that has something like 20 pulse chargers and they are pretty heavily used and are member only.

[@roderickmain9697]

If you are on a road tripyou are going to want to "fill up" your car as fast as it can to continue on your way. For my Model 3, they would be all but useless. IF, on the other hand, I was wanting to go shopping, eating, theatre whatever in Lancaster, and I could leave the car for a few hours, then these might be fine.... but the signs seem to say I'm not allowed to so that renders them useless for that too. Lack of any facilities - yes, not good. Cost seems high for moderate speed charging. The only reason for me to use those would be to get an emergency top up to get me home (if I lived within a few miles) or to get me somewhere with faster charging. They need to rethink this one. (I would suggest Oxford Redbridge P&R is how it should be done)

[@janhenkins]

Like it has been mentioned, BP is the king of greenwashing, and Shell is an also-ran. The only fossil-fuel connected charging network worth considering these days is MFG, the rest just take up space.

[@FordGranada75]

Nobody planning charging infrastructure get's the point. Not in the UK and not here in Austria. We have park & ride garages with chargers installed and they are empty all times. You cannot park your car in the morning, let the car charge at a slow rate over the working hours and drive home in the evening because they are limited in time or you are charged per minute of usage the whole day. It makes no sense to plug in.

[@dgilbert222]

You should have tried one of those slow charge points, I can never get those BP Pulse types to work. They do not take credit cards though, RFID or App or Website. Nightmare! If they worked, something is better than nothing!? As for having 5% of chargers at destinations, I feel the UK is well short on that front.

[@charlesflouvat1829]

THREE QUESTIONS WHEN I BUY A MOTOR, WHAT CAN IT CARRY(TOW), WHAT DOES IT DO PER GALLON, HOW MUCH IS THE TAX AND INSURANCE. When manufacturers without exaggerated claims about the range, make small practical electric vehicles that people want, I will buy one. I do not need an expensive computer screen, sat nav to help me find my way to my builders supply yard, my local butchers and bakers, or my church, clever, heated seats, cameras, parking assist, sensors, self drive, carrying electric motors to open and close my windows, electric doors, boot, stupid expensive electric keys for no reason, big tyres to carry the big battery I wouldn't need, high insurance, for a powerful show off car, I don't want, or need. When was money with the kings head on it allowed to be refused at charging stations?

[@DJBaldPaul]

What does any of this have to do with the video?

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Thanks for sharing your rather ubique list of needs, perhaps the automakers have assessed their average customer needs and it dosn't align with your specific wants.

[@caterthun4853]

Grumpy old men. Always find something to tell world

[@Travel_Day_Dreams]

Feels like this video lacked a bit of research, It's wrong to criticise Lancaster County Council & BP for being early to the party, this site is primarily a park & ride (not specifically an EV charging site) and is approx 8 years old now. At the time it was cutting edge offering a reasonable number of EV charging points when almost nowhere else did, it's probably due for a refresh but it was a leap of faith at the time. The purpose of the site was to provide options for all drivers, specifically for EV drivers on a longer journey the 50kW units would give a reasonable charge during a 30-50 min rest stop (Holiday Inn & Premier Inn nearby offer coffee / toilet facilities) & there's quite a nice walk by the river, the slower chargers offered something for those parking for longer periods while visiting the city. The park & ride bus to the city centre (it's approx 2 - 2.5 miles) generally takes about 5-10 mins, yes during rush hour it takes a little longer when 15 mins is about as bad as it gets & it costs £1.70 for the return bus journey, about the price of 1 hours parking in the city. For those needing faster charging, 1 min down the road (into Lancaster) is an Ionity site with 12 x 350kW chargers next door is McDonalds if you fancy a coffee while you're charging.

[@GraemeHart8888]

5-10 years ago I probably would have charged there if passing by on a road trip.

[@veronicathecow]

Nant y Caws Recycling centre. Around 2-3 years ago they were installed but not connected. They are 7Kw! Other than people who work there, what is the point? Last few visits there has been a container deposited on the parking spots in front of them (still not connected) Crazy thing is there is a lovely big wind turbine connected to the grid on site, add some solar panels and you could have some good speed chargers there mostly powered by the site. Project EV says "We are still actively trading; however, it appears that the owners of the charger on-site may have abandoned the chargers."

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Many sites with this type of issue is due to grid connectivity delays, same with the generation side.

[@veronicathecow]

It has a grid connection for the recycling plant and they are only 3x7kw, so should not be a problem

[@steve6375]

Does the site have any mains water? If not then cafe/toilets would not be viable.

[@dominicgoodwin1147]

It would be great for Lancaster city to encourage people to use the park and ride by filling the car park with those fast chargers and giving free charging.

[@the_none_believer]

What about free petrol for the ice drivers , l am sure they also pay rates and taxes just the same as EV drivers.

[@dominicgoodwin1147]

@ no, your fuel is already subsidised by our tax money. You should pay for the extra pollution you cause.

[@waynemandco]

It needs a tesla open to all on that site, You'd get a nice 24 bay hub in that site.

[@EwanV]

Faster, or slower chargers... either will do on a trunk route. We had 12 BP pulse 7kw poles at the new Train station down the road, and they were running free vend for a couple of months. Turned up at the start of November, 12 charging station poles were cut off at ground level and filled with foam. Very unhappy. 😭

[@ziggarillo]

My new Dacia would be perfectly happ with 50kw

[@melcragg7814]

Are you sure your model s will only go to 11? Mine went to 18 on AC, some of the older s could go to 22 if they opted for a dual charger.

[@bikeman123]

Is it necessary to space those chargers so far apart?

[@Shambolicuk]

Check out AW Energy near Milton Keynes. Only 39p per kwh. Used it Sunday through Electroverse.

[@vitspinka1]

The 50kW are old, just not upgraded. As you said, the contactless has a lot of wear, so they were used a lot. The slow (11kW) chargers - well, your math is wrong. If 5% cars are EVs, that does not mean 5% of the cars will need charging. Most people on P+R are local, so they will have already charged at home. It’s the long distance driver that needs these. You need more data to properly size the 11kW charger pool. I doubt it ever gets full as it is now. P+R charging makes sense - it takes virtually no tine to plug in and off on the bus you go. Unlike detour to the Gridserve nearby. Drive, wait for charge, etc.

[@gregvanpaassen]

I can get 340 miles out of my 15 year old car. 400 if I drive carefully. Edit: council workers being paid to sit and do nothing while their vehicle charges. In the private sector, time is money. In councils, it's hard to tell the difference between waiting and working.

[@chrisrussell418]

If destination chargers are going to be maintained they need to be used and create revenue and to do that they need to be competitively priced. These are not as you pointed out. I recently stayed at a B&B near Axbridge Somerset, Old Manor House, excellent stay and had two PodPoint destination chargers which worked faultlessly using the App but at a price 69p/kwh. Won't use them again as could charge at an open to all Tesla like I did on the way there for just over half the cost with a slight detour.

[@mikythesaint6507]

I solved this problem by binning my electric nightmare and getting a thirsty Mercedes petrol monster 🤣🤣🤣 just 5 mins to fill up, just have to fill up at least once a week 🤣🤣

[@stephenlee5929]

I think it would be great if all park and ride had fast chargers (even at 11KW), if you are going to (park) be there all day, seems like absolutely the right thing, The price is not competitive, but it is convenient to use. If you are going to have them and as you say they will be blocked for most of the day, its really useful if you need to charge to have the limited rapid chargers, so if I get there and there are none available, I can at least use the 1 hour limited slots as a fall back, once again the price is the issue. If the all day chargers were to regularly get full increasing the number would then make sense. They won't because of cost, but that doesn't make it a bad idea, just poorly done. I'm surprised there are no toilets, would expect that facility in most Park and Ride anyway. Most Park and Ride also have machines to get snacks/drinks, though not often hot snacks/drinks.

[@johnalbinson4641]

Box ticking!!

[@AndyJHiscock]

Idea charging for those annoying Chademo users who are on a diet with guaranteed no need to queue?

[@daveandjanwoolf8078]

Are these not the things that happen when revolutionary technology is evolving? That is the price we pay for progress

[@Ireallydontknow8581]

There are obviously enough of them as none in use?

[@mark123655]

Claims you need a lot more AC chargers.. yet no-one is using them. Obviously pricing is important however.. BP would never have be so far out of market on petrol prices at a station. Agree it's a poor site for 50kW chargers - more appropriate for a highway site with food where people might like a longer stop, ideally alongside higher speed chargers, for those who just want the shortest stop. But any charger is better than none, and maybe at the time these were installed 5+ years ago there were various other limits

[@gavjlewis]

It's ok saying there are lots of Gridserve units at the services and a few miles further v4 Tesla units. They weren't there when these polar units were put in. The services probably had two or four 50kw ecotricty units that were probably less reliable. Time has moved on but the park and ride hasn't. You say they need more units but clearly at the moment at these prices they don't as they are empty. Putting more in would just give you more unused chargers and no financial return.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

It's hard to project usage, the whole park and ride site was virtually empty. Either its a under used site or was filmed at a quiet time, some sites have fairly periodic usage pattern.

[@Paul-np1pb]

Those chargers are only good to make BP figures look good for number of chargers "installed"

[@bshah4831]

79p! Mer 50kw chargers can be as low as 47p on Electroverse.

[@donnairn3419]

Old chargers made to an old standard? would basic 7kw ac chargers be adequate for the people that are away fir 4-10 hours? however without a lower price for a lower service they will never be a popular choice.

[@trickshotish]

How is it that the 43kw chargers are faster than the 50kw ?

[@malcym3394]

If 5% of the UK car park is EV, and this car park holds 400 vehicles, you would expect 20 of them to be EV. There are 6 chargers available, so approx one charger for every 3-4 parked cars. Not unreasonable. But yes, there seems little point in stopping there on a road trip.

[@garrycroft4215]

Those fast chargers have been downgraded to 7kW because of the government’s law that anything over 7kW has to have contactless payment. Still 59p kWh 🤬

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Below 50kW only new installations are impacted, above 50kW is retrospectively subject to the charge point regulations.

[@garrycroft4215]

@ so why have BP downgraded these to 7kW and why has Shell downgraded their 22kW found at Aldi stores also to 7kW the app used to say 11kW although they always gave 22kW now the app says 7kW with 1.5 hours maximum stay I have stopped using them. It used to be great at 22kW for 25p kWh

[@GruffSillyGoat]

The regulations are clear, such downgrade either reflects the CPOs intent to modify the site (e.g. increase chargers) or decrease their use of grid capacity at sites, perhaps to prioritise that capacity at other sites (e.g. ultrarapids). Parking time limits usually reflect the car park owner or supernarket's intent not the CPOs, who would prefer to keep a car charging longer to make more money (its their business model afterall).

[@darrents44]

Silly question, but why don't all the EV manufactures use the same connector? This way would be better, wouldn't it.. The amount of times i need type 2 /ccs and someone is using it so can't use that station.. frustrating.

[@grahamleiper1538]

They all use CCS now (apart from Nissan Leaf and Lexus UX 300 which are Chademo and end of life).

[@timoliver8940]

I bet that the person who did the business modeling for that site has never driven an EV………….. and doesn’t want to. Maybe even a Daily Telegraph/ Mail reader!

[@malcym3394]

Who uses 50kW chargers? Here's what I said about yesterday's episode: Dave - our local authority covers 502 square miles. in the south west corner, you can find our "major hub", which has 2 x 50kW rapids, 1 x 22kW fast, 7 x 7kW 'fast'. Our largest town has 1 x 50kw, 1 x 22, 1 x 7kW. Over the whole area, we have 4 x 50kW rapids at intervals of 20-40 miles. Otherwise it's AC chargers maybe 10 miles apart. My nearest Tesla location is a 44 mile round trip so, unless I'm in that city for some other purpose, it simply doesn't make sense for me to go there to charge. North of Perth & Dundee, we only have four Tesla locations - Inverness, Aberdeen, Aviemore, Fort William. Go south east of Edinburgh and there is only one until you get south of Newcastle. In fact, other than Gretna (which is basically in England), we have only 13 Tesla locations in Scotland - that means each location, on average (which might not be relevant) covers 2,300 square miles! But is that "disgraceful"? Does it worry me? Not at all - I know where I can and can't charge, and work within those limitations. I'm fortunate - I'm less than 5 miles from my nearest 50kW rapid - which was installed only 16 months ago while the rest of the UK was already installing ultra-fast units. Do I find 50kW speed "Disgusting"? Not at all - I know what to expect and work with it. There's an interesting human condition in which we're never satisfied with what we have. If I get a 20% raise in salary, I think it's great - for a couple of months then it becomes normal. If I got a 300kW charger (and a car capable of accepting that amount), it would be fantastic - for a few months, then it would become normal and I would be wishing it was faster. I can appreciate that if you live in the area roughly from Blackpool down to London and the south east, you have a wealth of Tesla options - you mentioned that you have at least three within a handful of miles from your home. But PLEASE bear in mind that a decent proportion of the UK doesn't have easy access to ultra-fast chargers.

[@St.AustellBlue]

And that's why in the far south west of this isle you don't buy an electric car unless you can guarantee home charging IT'S A DESERT IN THE SOUTH WEST.

[@davidlloyd1526]

Pretty sure the EU will standardise the charging plug one day. Maybe even have it automatically debit your car's account...

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Europe has standardised on CCS2 (type 2 and combo), it just some Japanese manufacturers insisted on fitting CHAdeMO to their cars. Plug and Charge is part of the CCS standard, a number of CPO networks support its use in Europe. Plus Octoous's Electroverse supports it on a range of EVs and networks. Even Tesla use the protocol behind the scenes.

[@alfiedamage9203]

Nothing makes sense in the milk float world.

[@donaldanderson6604]

My four year old 208 will only take 50KW so no problem for me.

[@the_none_believer]

Still don't get why the majority EV charging which takes hrs is done in the open air! Given you're dealing with large amounts of electricity l would have thought it would be wise to protect them, and you from the elements. Yet all petrol stations have covers that keep you dry while you put in 500 miles of fuel in what 5 minutes.

[@mlj9931]

First you say that the slower chargers are useful, then you say that you'd pay a premium for a faster charge? Makes no sense. I do agree that charging in general is too expensive and council facilities in particular, as here, should be more reasonably priced. I don't think many are required at that location as most drivers will charge elsewhere. Just a few for anyone who is low or who can't charge at home. I think all the chargers might as well be unrestricted for time so that park and riders can use them.

[@edwyncorteen1527]

What is the problem? you are quite rightly not allowed to abandon a car on the rapids and go on the bus into Lancaster but you can on the destination chargers, as you say the rapids are completely out of date, I would remove them all and install more destination chargers. This site was obviously installed when there were grants available, the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe were about the only EVs you could get, and no one thinking what is actually required, a park and ride site needs destination chargers priced properly so that those who cannot charge at home can very easily and cheaply charge up whilst they are at work , shopping etc. 79p a kWh will NOT do this!

[@waynemandco]

Well said, Unfortunetly at the moment Dave seems to be on BP bashing spree. they only I personlly see at this site is the price but if BP are happy with it and with the number of people using it, then that isnt a problem.

[@Robotadept]

When were these installed I’m guessing as they say polar it’s been a while probably well before the Geniepoint and definitely before the Tesla ( open to all ) so maybe they were the only rabid chargers near by so they served a vital service at the time they would be ideal for charging my company van so I didn’t have to go on the motorway, ok so they are outdated now and could do with being converted to fast chargers

[@AdrianMcDaid]

You not been to Northern Ireland yet !

[@timothybloomer8287]

I have to disagree with you this time. Those chargers could be very useful and might save you a long wait elsewhere. And as others have said, they were installed long before you had faster options in the vicinity.

[@johnbaker5533]

Yep stupid old 50kW. The slow charger I beleive can charge 2 cars at once and I think split the 43 kW over the 2 .So 12 cars can charge. Destination chargers are fine for park and ride. Just need more of them and the cost Oh dear.

[@kash748]

Not entirely sure what you are complaining about here Dave,you don't have to be using the park and ride service to use the rapids....and whilst old,they are all working. You have forgotten that many,many ev's can't charge at huge speeds,so nissan leafs and ioniq 38's will still find them handy.... My view is,it's better to have them there,rather than not....at the very least,they are a standby option if the Lancaster services are full or down. I really don't see what the issue is with the fast chargers,they are perfect if you are using the park and ride....and they were hardly oversubscribed when you filmed them! Many only gripe is that the fast chargers are too expensive but they all are....may well be convenient if you are visiting Lancaster tho and want a charge for your trip back. I think you are a bit miserable about these chargers Dave!

[@oliver90owner]

I think you may have missed the time limit? Catch the bus to town, turn around and catch the bus back?

[@GruffSillyGoat]

The councils didn't intend for the 50kW to be used for park and ride, rather to service local community charging such as those without off-street parking. The signs were there to prevent park and ride customers from blocking the bays. The site needs more destination capacity, but the use of the 50kW units remain as many cars charge under 100kW, plus 50kW won't stress the batteries as much as 150kW+ will. The main issue is the price, which needs to be reduced.

[@kash748]

@@oliver90owner that's only on the rapids

[@mrpauly01]

Perhaps they’re for EV learner drivers that aren’t allowed on the motorway 🤣

[@briangriffiths1285]

In the beginning this was an important location somewhat overtaken by events. So that is why it is there. It was the only multi charger hub on the M6 4 years ago. Now plenty of cars use 50 kW or just a little bit over and so just likes it's location the chargers have got a little left behind. Will folks still stop at this charger now that it is old tech and not the very best location? Of course they will and specifically at peak times to and from the Lake District which is woefully served quite possibly because of poor power connections in the beauty spots. Could BP upgrade this charging hub? Doubtful there is enough capacity if all chargers are occupied taking 50kW. So it still serves a useful purpose and gives you something to rant on about, a bit pointlessly!

[@colinrawlins3286]

what an utter waste of resources, even if it is a park and ride carpark there should be at least public toilets and refreshment area. If the council use the chargers for their vehicles they could maintain the toilets at the same time. It's just another case of crass stupidity on the part of local councils just to be seen to be doing something. just one other thing when i want to fill my car with petrol i can go to any service station in the country to fill my car why on earth if you have an EV you have to make sure the charger has the correct plug why aren't there an industry standard plug for all EV's madness.

[@nigeltrueman6101]

nothing wrong with BP. they produce petrol and diesel