Parker Bros 12ga antique double-barrel SxS shotgun

[@ditchdigger93]

I also use the Vintager shells from Polywad in my old New Twist double that I'm told now should be in the one hundred and twenty year old range. As a matter of fact I just came in from shooting six of them threw it. I also bought a box of Black Powder factory loaded shells at great expense that scared the hell out of me when I shot them. I shot four. They kicked the dog shit out of me and it took an hour and a half to clean the barrels afterwards. I know guns before I get a lot of advice ok, and I know all about pressure curves and all that but it is hard to believe that they didn't produce a lot more pressure than the Vintager shells. If I remember right the Vintager shells are supposed to be no more than six thousand pounds of pressure. They are 2 1/2 inch by the way with 24 gram of 7 1/2 shot. I also have three boxes of the same with #6 shot. I have been told all my life that it is not safe to shoot any amount of modern powder in these old guns and of course no one has ever made a video that I can find blowing one up using them in one? There is one very good video of not using modern powder in a muzzle loading rifle too and they had to use a ridiculous amount to finally break it. I'm sure enough to also blow up a modern rifle if fired in it too. So, what do you believe? OH, I'm still not shooting a modern magnum in my antique shotguns by the way but my grandpa once told me he had shot magnum four buck loads in this same shotgun. NOT ME !

[@justintimeflipping]

What’s the worth of one of these bad boys or what would I expect to pay in a fair market

[@emarionjackson339]

I own a damscus barrel shotgun that dated 1892 and shoots fine with any load the market on it would be about 450-1000

[@wholeNwon]

Interesting. Can you provide more info.? I assume you've made your own smokeless-for-black powder loads with components that duplicate the original pressure curves. Also it seems your shells extract easily. Since the chambers were originally probably 2 5/8", did you trim your own hulls, buy 2.5" or (hopefully not) lengthen the chambers?

[@teuobk]

I was shooting commercial shells from Polywad, specifically their 2.5" Vintager shells, which are designed to be used in antique shotguns. Before firing the gun for the first time, I did extensive research into the shooting of smokeless loads in guns from the black powder era. I looked at pressure curves, test-to-failure studies, and the effects of things like pitting in the barrels or damascus/laminated barrel construction. Here's what I discovered: I could find exactly zero first-hand accounts of antique shotguns exploding when certainly shot with factory shells. That's right: zero. None. Zip. Nada. Every single case (and there weren't many) where there was a barrel failure either definitely occurred with reloaded shells or "maybe" occurred with reloaded shells. I could find no reliable documentation of any antique gun ever having failed with factory smokeless loads. I was surprised; I expected to find at least one documented case, but it doesn't appear to have ever happened. And if we're opening it up to barrel failures with reloaded shells, well -- there are plenty of examples of modern guns exploding when shooting reloads. In other words, the stories of antique guns exploding, or the advice never to shoot smokeless powder in damascus-barreled guns, seems to be myth rather than fact, just so long as the shells aren't reloads.

[@wholeNwon]

teuobk You have certainly put a lot more thought into the use of your gun than many. I've been around longer than you and was putting ducks and pheasants on the table before you were born, so I really enjoy seeing young men developing interest in double guns. In fact, one of my favorite upland guns remains a W. W. Greener with 3 stripe ("3 iron") Damascus barrels. Nothing handles quite like the old English guns. I only load black powder for its 2.5 inch chambers (usually 2 3/4 dr. FFG with 7/8 oz.of shot). The load is more than adequate for pheasants at 30 yds. Your comments likely indicate that you have read the articles that appeared in "The Double Gun Journal" some years ago. They were interesting. One of the problems that those of us who use or would like to use these old guns have is that we rarely know how they were treated before they came into our hands. I once encountered a young man who was routinely putting the heaviest loads available through a short-chambered, shallow framed European double. They were developing in the neighborhood of 13,000 psi...maybe more. An invisible bulge perhaps no more than the thickness of a hair could have been present. That's enough to indicate that the elastic limit of the barrels had been exceed and that subsequent failure was likely. Without micrometer measurements before and after, I doubt that such a problem would be detected. Well, I hope that you continue to shoot and to enjoy your Parker. My Father gave me my first Parker for a Christmas gift when I was a teen. I still have it.

[@teuobk]

wholeNwon You make a good point about not knowing how the guns were treated before they arrived in our hands. I see myself as simply a temporary caretaker of this Parker; it was around 100 years before I was, and it will probably still be around after I'm gone. W. W. Greener made (and still makes) some beautiful firearms. You're lucky to have one. Hope you continue to enjoy shooting your Greener, Parker, and (presumably) other fine guns!

[@wholeNwon]

teuobk I hope so, too. So far, so good! A big part of the appeal of British guns is in the stocking. They favor more drop at the comb and heal than American guns and most other modern shotguns. The common straight stocks used today force the shooter into strange contortions, fitting himself to the gun rather than vice versa. The Greener, and others I have, shoot where I look and that's great. I should have mentioned one other thing: In dealing with old guns and specifically, with old gun barrels, I'm sure you're aware that, in past years, it was not uncommon to have the interiors of barrels honed to remove pitting. This, of course, removes metal. Lengthening chambers and forcing cones is more obvious. So, for those who want to shoot these older guns, a competent gunsmith with appropriate gauges to measure wall thickness at the critical points should be hired, This is especially true with welded barrels but also with fluid steel barrels. The old fluid steels, even the early molybdenum alloys like Parker's "Vulcan Steel" can't compare in strength to modern ordnance steels. The latter being perhaps 3x as strong.