Part 2: Why Your Favorite Musicians Are Broke

[@tayzonday]

Three of the then-four major labels expressed interest in signing me in 2007. I decided not to. I wasn’t ready. No regrets.

[@JDior94]

YOOOO CHOCOLATE RAIN???

[@harinezumi7389]

Seems to have been an incredibly smart decision

[@juank_marganth]

You're a legend bro

[@Flowdaboyz]

Omg the legend chocolate rain.

[@dragonxetron7833]

YOOOO

[@pulsarstargrave256]

"IF you don't own your masters, the Master owns YOU!" - Prince

[@millerrepin4452]

cock and ball torture I must endure -yoda

[@cameleyez]

"Slave to a label but I own my masters".

[@letsgetthemusic2333]

What are the masters?

[@the_allucinator]

@@letsgetthemusic2333some sort of music right.

[@AnymMusic]

@@letsgetthemusic2333 the eventual final version of the track. Some labels take the rights of the master so that even after you leave the label, the label still owns your track

[@zacharybynummusic]

This is why it's worth learning how to write, produce, and perform on your own terms. Times are changing!

[@plexine_]

And that's what I do produce my own beats make music on my own upload to a distributor still I'm not anywhere

[@philfrank5601]

It's not even worth that. Modern pop music is shit and who wants to write that drivel for fans with a 20 second attention span?

[@watchdemfools3420]

Yeah, just have to write, produce, perform, dance, sing/rap, market, film, edit, design, draw, animate, account, promote, distribute, negotiate, network, invest, regulate and entertain ;-) A comedian made a good analogy that went a farmer grows and harvests crops but then is judgmentally shaded with the response "You are a wonderful farmer, but can you cook?" it is the same as saying "You're a great comedian, but can you write/act..."

[@KallusGarnet]

@@plexine_ you are doing too much you need a manager

[@cjfromgtasanadreas]

@@plexine_ I will change your life with one thing and make you continue working on your music hard until you become successful. Imagine this. Eminem doesn't exist right now, okay, imagine that. He's in his room, makes a beat, raps over it, creates rap god for example. This product by itself is all you need and you need to be patient for your discovery and send it to labels. If you heard rap god from some guy eminem and sent it to your friends they will absolutely fucking love it and share it with others. Ignore people saying "it's about networking and connections" it's fucking not, trust me, I've heard these peoples soundcloud, absolute unoriginal, badly mixed and mastered crap. Keep going, you will have a few "products" that will with enough patience and passion make people know about you.

[@pokepress]

Basically, you’re better off building your audience slow and steady rather than shooting straight for the top.

[@randallee3544]

Yes but how? Especially with covid. Keep tuned for my answers 😉

[@FeraltheEarthworm]

we out here

[@galaxyride4944]

I ididt that and you don't have 2 have a lot of followers. But you do need a lot of confidence.

[@AnymMusic]

@@randallee3544 social media. idk about pop or hiphop, but in the EDM industry you make content for insta, release music, and get connections via platforms like instagram, discord, twitter, etc. f.e. I've been making music for 4 years now, and started instagram one year later. sure I'm not amazing yet, but I've already grown to 103 followers in 3 years with admitedly fairly mediocre music right now. I just take the people along for the ride of making music, making the covers, what's going on in my life, etc. on the chat platform Discord, I've gotten connections with people inside the biggest EDM label Spinnin' Records, and I've gotten pretty close to an already established artist, and befriended a few upcoming ones simply by talking and having a good time.

[@olechristianhenne6583]

Something tells me you dont need to be ah Rap god to make good records

[@johnnykeys1978]

As an Australian 4 piece band touring USA, we had hundreds of these offers. No exaggeration. We turned them down due to insufficient gullibility.

[@jm-je4tl]

I suppose that has been a better financial decision in the context of being a band who have to split the cash more?

[@johnnykeys1978]

@@jm-je4tl indeed, with the added bonus of dignity and freedom!

[@jm-je4tl]

Fascinating. I'll keep this in mind. Thank you. One more question: how do you market yourselves??

[@johnnykeys1978]

@@jm-je4tl persistence will eventually turn into repeat business... eventually. A previous career's savings was also necessary to fund expenses and losses (investments). This all may be moot now - there is a new paradigm it seems.

[@adastephens2906]

j

Rule number 1: eliminate the middle man

[@ShotByGreenLightTV]

HipHop 🐲🔫 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnythXWppaxkjMU

[@odomisan]

With all the social media avialable on everyone's hands, direct access to the consumer, it should be a nightmare for these industries.

[@_Aemse]

frank lucus showed me that

[@joebloggs619]

This business principle also applies to otherlines of business, too, but sometimes you just cant eliminate him.

[@xanty_3513]

So we all must be independent artists

[@NathanJamesLarsen]

As a producer, I have artists asking me if they need a label and I ALWAYS tell them "no! Stay away from that junk." Bad deal almost always. With an entrepreneurial mind, artists can make more money on their own. Yes, it takes more work, but it is absolutely possible. Sadly, so many musicians just want everything done FOR them.

[@VeryImportantPoetry]

Some of my favourite musicians set up their own labels. No one tell them what to do...but what about the other artists joinging their label? How long they will cooperate as a team of independents artists?

[@KallusGarnet]

that's because these people want to be pop idols and not musicians let alone musical artist. Pop idol < Musicians < musical Artist are all different thing's entirely.

[@donato8983]

What do you recomend then?

[@NathanJamesLarsen]

@@donato8983 Build a social media following, self-release, grow a brand identity that people can easily identify with the music. The music is not what artists sell, it's their brand and the music is a part of it. And artists are simply not actually making money from streaming, so they need to gigging (hard right now, understandably so), getting into sync licensing (music for television/movies/video), and selling physical products that their audience wants (merch). Streaming simply doesn't pay well. A million streams on spotify is like a couple thousand dollars. Not enough to make ends meet and barely enough to cover production costs. House shows are the most profitable way to gig and what I really recommend because they are super easy to put together. There's a lot more than that - but for a KZbin comment, that's a lot.

[@traplover6357]

yeah, you dont have to be a major popstar to live as a musician. Wait after the Rona and indie artists touring will be massive.

[@VISPRES]

Can’t wait for the day when record labels are obsolete. Imagine the unheard creativity we are missing out on because of them.

[@allanism]

Hey, you are responsable. Don't consume payolas artists and radios. Support independent artists.

[@bombercountyblues]

Agree with your first point entirely, but gotta disagree about missing out on talent because of them. Not in this day n age with social media etc. Thanks to KZbin, I've now got the music of weekend barroom bands from the other side of the world on my phones playlist.

[@Jubel06]

@Joe Al OK. Come on over. I'm making beans and cabbage...

[@davidmims1032]

That is true!!! If everyone just say fuck it lets go independent. They ass will crumple,and that's what their crooked ass need

[@kelsopresley]

Oh my god, your comment should be pinned. All the bullshit, the tactics, the images they push in our face. Ik we're missing out on something special frfr. Yo, would you mind checking out my song on my homepage? Its short, just 2 minutes, just looking for support where i can find it.

[@Crowbar11115]

I managed a band in the late 90s/early 2000s. I walked them through all the BS they would encounter if they signed a Record Contract. Told them a "deal" is a loan and that they get paid LAST and only after the loan is paid back. Thankfully, they listened to me and released all their music on their own and used a local producer that had a killer basement studio. We got an invite to be featured in the background of an MTV show. Since the band had no agent, no deal, no lawyer, no greedy Manager and we created our own LLC/Label, the band made like $16,000 for 30 seconds of Music. Haha. We received the actual check directly from MTV! MTV liked the music enough to ask for 30 more seconds in another episode and we made even more. It is almost unheard of for a band to receive 100% of the money let alone the actual giant yellow check directly from MTV.

[@moonraker30]

That is 😎😎😎😎 LOVE to hear stories like these

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

What's the name of the band I want too listen to their music if they have an online presence and you definitely did them some good

[@Crowbar11115]

​@@theoutsiderjess1869 kzbin.info/door/vViJx59p3LLMiIkFvEoQrA They changed their name and released a third album as well kzbin.info/door/oCtOPHauuGe0tcTO00nRvQ The band broke up about a decade ago, sadly. Amazing musicians that just didn't find a larger audience.

[@kyokari4]

@@Crowbar11115 I was not expecting that name at all.

[@Selrisitai]

@@Crowbar11115 Guaranteed, "I'm Your Voodoo," if released today with a slick music video, would be HUGE.

[@cjezinne]

Ryan Leslie is amazing... And was actually a genius. 1600 on SATs at 14 & graduated Harvard at 19.

[@KallusGarnet]

yep

[@Lady_Tee15]

So talented as well!!

[@luissam1547]

So kids let me put it as simple as 1-2-3: RECORD LABEL ARE BANKS IN DISGUISE. THEY GIVE YOU A LOAN TO CREATE SOMETHING YOU DON’T OWN, and IF YOU DON’T BECOME PROFITABLE THEY DROP YOU, and NOW YOU ARE BROKE AND ALONE, and BY THE WAY YOU STILL OWE THEM FROM THAT LOAN. wow, it actually rhymes😁

[@0000song0000]

It's like college, they sell you an idea of future... But give you just loan

[@michaelhurley3171]

Or sharecropping many years ago

[@effexon]

@@0000song0000 but they keep anything you create, if it is a hit, label gets money even after 30 years. good for those kids and grandkids of company owners who have safe easy jobs then.

[@effexon]

if you think how western economy now works, this makes perfect sense. selling dreams to people is insane business, and there's nothing to fail, as each dream is "subjective". college, sportstar, programmer, artist, filmstar.... all work the same, selling dreams, but cashing in while doing it.

[@luissam1547]

effexon yep thats about the size of it.

[@TruthAndMoreTruth]

5 album deal: 1. Much money is spent recording, producing, and promoting the release, it becomes a hit, sells a few million, but expenses overtake artist's cut. 2. Riding off of the first hit, record sells less, artist make very little after expenses. 3. Label decides not to spend any money, time, or energy to promote this record, they've made THEIR money and have moved on to a new victim. The release loses money, placing the artist in debt to the label. 4. The artist doesn't want to record this record because it will only put them further in debit to the label. 5. The artist can't make this record, and can't move to a new label unless their contract is purchased by a new label. Result: The label/publisher OWNS the released materiel, and continues to make money years later. Artist worked for free, and has nothing to show for their success.

[@SavedByGrace_CitizenEmperorユウ]

Sounds like a nightmare! I wonder how many newcomers new about what they were getting themselves into? How does the band pay off their debt?

[@TruthAndMoreTruth]

@@SavedByGrace_CitizenEmperorユウ Back in the mid 90s I read an article in a music magazine, and while the details escape me the one thing I remember is that they asked many famous artist what they would do differently if they knew then what they know now. The most common answer was in someway or another expressing that they would have hired a lawyer to review their first contract because they really felt screwed. It stuck with me.

[@mercykachigunda9418]

oh oh ZAYN MALIK

[@morganandrew-morganson8276]

As someone who does music, this and Part 1 were both eye-opening. I knew that the music business was messed up, but I didn't know how deep the rabbit hole truly went.

[@ShotByGreenLightTV]

HipHop 🐲🔫 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnythXWppaxkjMU

[@damienbeckman-scott7016]

One of Korn's music videos was entirely about how they were getting screwed over by their record label and it still didn't manage to change public opinion.

[@organiceverything9615]

@@damienbeckman-scott7016 name of song?

[@damienbeckman-scott7016]

@@organiceverything9615 Y'all Want a single. It's more about cooperate pressure to make singles rather than their careers as a whole. Given that the band invested roughly 3 million in producing untouchables I don't think they've had any major financial issues, but the point is still that they wanted to make their audience aware of the issues with the music industry.

[@AnymMusic]

oh yeah the pop and hiphop industry can be reaaaal shady

[@J.S.3259]

As awful as the film and publishing industries are, the music industry is a totally different layer of hell

[@geraldstephens6612]

Oh how true. Case in point; Lou Pearlman, creator\ producer\ scam artist. Check out the story.

[@drpingpongs2593]

as an aspiring filmmaker, how bad is the film industry? just a little 101.

[@Live-Life-Freely]

It's actually 360 degrees of Hell and there's no shortage of desperate people stabbing each other in the back for a chance to get in.

[@effexon]

they've mastered the art of cheating and ripping of "artists" (in that sense many artists are regular workers, so after deal, they have nothing, no IP from that time working for label).

[@Villytake56499]

@@drpingpongs2593 since you want to do film, if so if its specifically Hollywood you are going to be around plenty of executives and other people behind movie-making that are pedophiles you are going to see a lot of wicked shi. so I say just be like a music video maker or short film type maker on youtube, Stay away from Hollywood (anything in Cali)

[@young9534]

This reminds me of the rapper Troy Ave. He always talked about not being signed to a label and being okay with seeing smaller sales numbers because at least he got to keep most of the money. People responded by calling him Troy Average making fun of his how his album sales numbers compared to artists on big labels.

[@KallusGarnet]

People are dumb

[@lvl.99socialdistancewarrio67]

I fuck with him, he took the slow hustle but all his dollars are his and he's not being fucked by a label. Selling his own merch and I think he just started a podcast.

[@DB1Dragoon]

I called him Troy Average cuz his bars sucked, I'm completely behind him making it on his own.

[@coajdka]

he took 100% of the sales, and didnt go in debt tho

[@young9534]

@@DB1Dragoon He says and does some dumb shit sometimes. But I think he's better than all these mumble rappers.

[@mesimesi2313]

Sean puffy combs would just say, “take that, take that” on artists songs and he would receive a royalty checks. None of his artist are wealthy or doing well.

[@RealHomeRecording]

This Puff Daddy you speak of sounds like a real jerk

[@mesimesi2313]

RealHomeRecording.com sounds?! He is a real jerk and so much more!!!

[@wilfredynunez5263]

Getting royalty checks, just for doing adlibs? Sounds like a genius to me.

[@lookahere]

@@mesimesi2313 You are right. My nephew interned for Puffy when he was going to school in New York. We're from Georgia by the way. He was so excited at first and thought that he was going to have a great time. He quickly found Puff to be a serious jerk. One day my nephew and another intern that was female were told by one of their bosses to go and get lunch for Puff and the members of Danity Kane. They had specific instructions to get Puff a certain sandwich and to make sure their was no mayo on it. They brought back the sandwich exactly as instructed. No problem right? Wrong! See, even though there was no mayo on the sandwich itself, there were mayo packs in the bag with the sandwich. There was mustard and ketchup packs as well but the mayo packs sent Puff into a profanity laced tirade directed towards the interns and their bosses. My nephew also witnessed a senseless confrontation between Puff and Mario Winans over Mario getting paid for work he had done on a Danity Kane album. Puff refused to pay Mario and told him that he would pay him when he got ready. Winans then asked Puff to let him get his equipment from the studio and leave because he had other commitments and Puff told him the equipment was now his and to "get the f***k out before he got thrown out. My nephew had seen enough and quit that job the same day. Puffy always had an "asshole" aura about him to me even when he was trying to be cool and easy going in interviews and stuff but my nephew's first hand experience with him confirmed my suspicions.

[@shmonehshmoneh4156]

It's so simple! You get what you negotiate. No diffrent than any other contract in the world.

[@KingOfMadCows]

Record labels are owned by large media companies that can easily shape public perception. They make sure the reality of how little musicians make isn't covered in the news or entertainment magazines/websites while pushing the narrative that musicians are greedy spoiled brats who are ungrateful for their success.

[@ShotByGreenLightTV]

HipHop 🐲🔫 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnythXWppaxkjMU

[@hungaryrat5089]

Yup, this is why music of people who aren't signed by these record label companies are never on the news or radio. Only if you signed the damn contract they will allow you to. Or if they get a cut some other way and if you help them push the current narrative.

[@damienbeckman-scott7016]

Thank you!

[@dwightscott2377]

That's the how Music industry works these days. Just mindcontroling lot a ppl.

[@yvettelucy9831]

Bingo!!!

[@ronblack2700]

Remember Prince, fought to get out of his contract.

[@nobodyknows5103]

Did he ever get out?

[@KingBaldEagle1984_Prosperity]

cuddly bear I don’t think he got out “ untouched “ even if he got out these record companies are really dangerous and demonic they will do things to destroy your album sales and eventually kill you .

[@freezysyahz]

@@KingBaldEagle1984_Prosperity Yikes!

[@KingBaldEagle1984_Prosperity]

freezysyahz I can’t even go to deep . Some of the things they do is blackmail you , you have to sacrifice your family members and loved ones, you’re left miserable at the end . Just look up the truth about the music industry, the truth about rap music.

[@ronblack2700]

@cuddly bear ... Yes Prince did.

[@KhalilGhibran]

Great topic Spencer, and crazy enough, one that isn't covered often! So many stories, but just to name a few: -They sank $2 million into Trinidad James, let that sink in lol no disrespect to him but c'mon -TLC sold 10 million records and members had to file bankruptcy -NBA Youngboy was told no when he recently inquired into getting his masters -Tupac signed some of the worst contracts known to man, he didn't own anything in the beginning -R&B group New Edition completed lucrative tours and were given checks that mounted to a few dollars, I kid you not Slavery almost doesn't cut it when describing these crazy contracts!

[@angelaburress8586]

Chris Brown has his masters

[@shadieossei4336]

@Dee Jay The music industry is not a scam but the system is just badly messed up due to the horrible people who run the the industry. There is hope for a better industry!

[@mclovinpo]

Shadie Ossei thats what a scam is bud

[@Tremulousnut]

@@mclovinpo It's only a scam in the sense that people who signed up don't understand what they are signing up for. Artist blow their advance and get in debt because they are not financially responsible.

[@bo777ford]

Nah...but what I want know is what you know about Kahlil Gibran, the Prophet of God? ; )

[@ethansak8171]

I’m an independent artist who’s been writing my own music since I was 14. I’ve garnered a mil streams on Spotify which is cool, but I wanted to attest to the royalty question. I don’t songwrite with people often because anyone who walks in the room at a professional space gets a split of the songwriting royalty, 1/8th of the mechanical side of the money made. The distribution often takes 1/2 of the money from the royalty right out of the gate, so you’re left with 1/8 of 1/2 of 1/10 of a penny that you have to split among all of the songwriters. Recently, I’ve been working on my debut album completely independently. I’ll get almost all of the mechanical and distribution royalties, BECAUSE I’ve written, produced, arranged, etc. this huge project on my own. It’s been a lot more work, but if any success ever follows the album, I won’t have to share nearly any money made from it other than to the aggregator and streaming platforms, which thankfully take a small cut. Own your music guys. Paying up front for musicians and mixers work for hire is a saving grace.

[@DeyCallmeBadnuzBytch]

Dey Callme BadnuzBytch

[@jasonfanclub4267]

So you can basically get a loan instead of a record deal

[@citytexas6590]

Max out your credit cards. At least they won't keep you from selling records if the first one stiffs.

[@YoosufMuneer]

you'll have to figure out the marketing though.

[@codemiesterbeats]

exactly so if you are smart and start seeing some rapid success... you can go to get a traditional loan (might be difficult) but yes doing it that way is probably better especially in today's climate... I make no money of the music I make but would be totally happy with a mediocre pay (in comparison with major labels) and just having a small subset of dedicated fans.

[@heythere452]

Not really, because if you take a loan you don't get access to all the networks the record company owns

[@kelsopresley]

😂😂Can you listen to my song for me? I'd greatly appreciate it bro

[@DodaGarcia]

That thing she talked about regarding the style of the music is such a CLASSIC scenario with labels. I was briefly signed in 2013 and it basically went that they wanted me because I was “different” and “fresh” or whatever, but then every move about the music was in the direction of making it sound like everything else. It seems that labels get their creative instinct speak louder when they’re finding new talent but then the business safety instinct kicks in when it’s time to actually spend money on it.

[@DB1Dragoon]

Unless of course they're just lying to you.

[@shadieossei4336]

I agree artists should have their total freedom and autonomy to create no matter which company they sign to!

[@thecomplexindividual]

Sounds like wrestling for the WWE

[@DodaGarcia]

Boredom is one hell of a drug Lying for what?As this video explains, a label doesn’t have much to gain by signing someone they don’t think will succeed because if you don’t succeed they are the ones footing the bill when you can’t afford to pay back the recoupable. It’s just a typical creative vs business tug of war that exists in many other industries. There’s no mystery why it happens, it just does become very frustrating for artists.

[@DodaGarcia]

Shadie Ossei I wouldn’t go that far, obviously the market data and business acumen of a major label is a huge asset, and since they’re investing their money, of course they want you to be profitable. It’s just that in many cases the exact uniqueness that attracted an A&R person to your sound might seem too risky for the parties responsible for signing the checks, and then they pull too far the other way and now there’s nothing special or fresh about your act and you fail anyway. It’s a pain but I wouldn’t say it’s the intentional fault of any party involved. That said, it did get annoying how they wanted to control all my online presence while also stalling like hell to greenlight the production of the music, so I’m glad I peaced out. I’ve found much more success in my more recent career as an independent artist who hires people who do know what they’re doing but work with me, not against me, to find that balance.

[@Cre8Lounge]

It's not an advance if you have to pay it back.

[@orlock20]

It's business jargon for a loan. Another business jargon word for a loan is margin which is used in options trades.

[@firemarshal2629]

That’s exactly what an advance is🙄

[@androlibre9661]

Every artist needs to know this phrase "Don't Borrow Against the Store"

[@Jz-sv1ju]

Its just a loan

[@jhallo1851]

like Ryan said.. that's literally what an advance is.

[@KevinMartinez-xk4es]

This kinda reminds me of how back in the day Queen was making a killing with concerts and album sales but the artists themselves were broke because of their contract with the label Trident Studios.

[@GRMNCVS]

Mariah&WhitneyLamb Probably not, sadly, as Grammys and such are made up by the big record labels, who probably bid to get their artists a prize

[@bloodmajesty414]

@Mariah&WhitneyLamb Who cares about those shallow awards anyway, it is all rigged.

[@t-squared6406]

so much shady stuff before knowledge of things

[@AnymMusic]

@Mariah&WhitneyLamb that wasn't really the case in the Queen days. remember, it wasn't easy to get your music out there back in the day like it is now. they didn't have spotify, or distro services like distrokid, or youtube to upload their music on. almost everyone who got big relied on labels. from Queen to The Beatles to Michael Jackson

[@jermainelee8127]

All Drake ghostwriters eating good lol

[@justsaying2834]

And birdman eating good too cause he owns Drake's masters

[@TheOfficialMorningSonder]

@@justsaying2834 he eating forever

[@brakernight7881]

Controllhim controlim

[@mananwashere]

actually no, credited writers get paid. "ghost" writers are paid under the table and their name isn't mentioned anywhere. They don't get a recurring royalty but a one time fee.

[@ranarehman7326]

@@mananwashere he said Drake for a reason. Quentin Miller is credited for his writings along with others.

[@redvik2219]

These "trappers" waste their money on cars, designer clothes and then wonder why they have no money left. No wonder they all decline in a matter of years.

[@bo777ford]

They don't teach you in public schools especially in the inner city about the management of money, property ownership, the fact that music caste spells, the spiritual sciences or any thing else of importance. They purposely teach you false history, bullshit you will never use in life and what to think instead of how to think. There lies the problem. Yea..."trappers" for real.

[@StreetsidePhotoOnline]

Or having illegitimate kids all over the place, locking themselves in child support.

[@Jubel06]

Man. Musicians been terrible with money for fuckin ever. It ain't just the trappers. You single out their spending habits like they're somehow unique in this shitstorm that is the music industry. It's nothing new: the music industry makes musicians broke for its' profit.

[@TheHuskyK9]

It starts with the education. Seriously, when is the average person going to use calculus in the real world? American schools that are high school and lower barely teach about how taxes work, how 401K's work, etc etc and it's done on purpose. An uneducated population is an easy population to take advantage of. That's why you have musicians and athletes that make it big but as soon as they retire, they crash and burn. Perfect example is Allen Iverson. Literally the face of basketball at one point only to be homeless after his career was done.

[@MK-vi2cm]

@Gzus Kreist you're the only one here spewing that garbage.

[@jamesearlcash1758]

The music business is full of performance talent more so than actual artist especially now a days.

[@KallusGarnet]

Artist are expensive and cost money and time.

[@jamesearlcash1758]

@@KallusGarnet Artist are not as easily manipulated as a talent.

[@user-dz2hj6jo5h]

Joe D +the most simple and basic choreography. People will wow at someone and call it dancing when a performer can strut mediocrely around a stage and flail their arms about to the beat.

[@KallusGarnet]

@@jamesearlcash1758 Bingo, they want idols not artist.

[@xylypotatohead3947]

It works a little differently I think. Big labels gift the trainee debt. But small labels for sure.

[@aaronjames398]

Joe Budden said it best: “If you believe in yourself, just take a personal loan from the bank” build up credit and go from there.

[@falsup09]

Fascinating video, I think it’s a part of a bigger trend , cutting out the middleman. I see it everywhere. I’ve done the same thing in my life. I used to work for a giant corporation, started my own business couple months ago, best thing I’ve ever done.

[@NullXNXVoid]

It's beyond obvious the labels are the problem.

[@MajorLeagueBassboost]

21 Savage also spoke about the record industry and why it's better to go independet, at least at first.

[@shortscouture1]

its amazing how he managed to own his masters

[@dg8459]

A friend of mine was in a band that got signed to a label. They produced an album that the label decided to not release. The result was they basically couldn't do anything until the contract was up

[@Rvu72]

the kpop scene basically took these scheme to next level right?

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

Yes

[@Lady_Tee15]

That's awful!

[@andergarcia4953]

Yeah the record labels groom and raise a lot the kids to be famous pop singers.

[@LoRdDyY45]

Thats why you learn to do everything on your own

[@NickChase]

Or you give up 😀

[@DeyCallmeBadnuzBytch]

Dey Callme BadnuzBytch

[@MrRiffMusic]

Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails stood up against Interscope Records in 2006. He was well and truly deserving of going independent.

[@RealSergiob466]

Go Independent music.

[@ShotByGreenLightTV]

HipHop 🐲🔫 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnythXWppaxkjMU

[@dwightscott2377]

Yes

[@youngsol309]

Haha nobody supports an independent artist

[@RealSergiob466]

@@youngsol309 I do support it and so does some people

[@youngsol309]

@@RealSergiob466 i support them too im just saying from experience as an independent artist myself bro

[@tenzackyogi1742]

This is exactly like students loans.......

[@Johnnybananass-_]

labels are like ex wives,. When they first meet you " yes I love you as you are,..". the day after wedding contract is signed, " change your job, change your look, change who you are " hahaha

[@ZybakTV]

Great 2 part video series dude.

[@TavisMoore]

Can you please make a part about producers? After my KZbin blew up along with getting a few placements, I received offers from Tory Lanes and other Major record labels. I just want to know the pros and cons when it comes to producers and if I were to sign, what would be a good contract (if there is one lol).

[@KingDCN]

congrats 👏🏾👏🏾

[@bassinblue]

I think Producers are usually way better off than being an artist, since we get percentages. Obviously it's different to each person, like Kanye being a producer then turning into an artist, because the pay out is way more when you're constantly performing.

[@AnymMusic]

might also be interesting to look at the differences between labels in the EDM industry vs pop/hiphop

[@bornlost706]

We signed our first deal. It was an indie deal more like a partnership. We basically split the risk. You negotiate your own deal. If you have no leverage then wait until you get some.

[@pearlbossa]

Entertainment is a really interesting industry when you look at the business side. This story reminded me of listening to WWE wrestler Daniel Bryan talk about how he was still broke, barely scraping by financially, when he was the World Heavyweight Champion. When you're not the top guy and can't get the amazing deals you are stuck paying for your travel (as in independent contractor) 5 nights a week across the country, your food, etc. It's amazing how much harder it is to "make it" even when you reach what you'd think is the end goal when you start out.

[@andrewlei2980]

If this is true then Daniel Bryan needs to fire his manager right away. His manager was probably skimming off him and he doesn’t even know it,

[@JERSEYBOYPLAY2HARD]

YES

[@AbdulForexInvesting]

Will search about it

[@shadieossei4336]

You are right! I have a question for you. If you're an artist, what would you like a company to do for you before you sign an agreement with them? I just want to know what artists actually need in terms of touring, promotion, distribution etc.

[@GavisDean]

can you give me the link to that interview from Daniel Bryan?

[@TommyP365]

Don’t forget about the albums being cross-recoupable. Album One tanks, but Album Two crushes? It doesn’t matter that you’ve made enough to pay off the expenses of Album Two, you’re still on the hook for Album One.

[@keydaniels]

Tech9 is another independent artist that is winning. I don't know his music but I've listened to his interviews and his perspective on the industry is an inspiration.

[@chefajmwz3492]

The fact that you just recommended another youtube channel to check out an interview deserves more respect, salute

[@OwolabbyAzeez]

“You should see how much the business make from the art that they exploit”.......HARD Truths Ain’t SOFT Spoken 🤧🔥💯. Did y’all know it’s impossible to breathe while smiling? Kidding just wanted y’all to smile. Hope you have a phenomenal week. Friendly reminder to check your bank account on a daily basis. Regularly checking it makes you less inclined to overspend throughout the day.

[@stephendverner]

Originally went to college to study music in the early 90’s to try and make it as a songwriter. Kind of stumbled into a music industry program at my school, changed my major to audio recording thinking that if I learned skills I could produce my own demos. Learned a good bit about the business side with classes in copyright law and promotion etc. and internships at local studios in Atlanta. Wanted to move to Nashville and make a go of it but ended up meeting my wife right before graduating. Turned my degree into a 23yr career as a tech director, audio engineer, and lighting designer. No regrets at all. From what I’ve learned in your videos I am glad my initial goals didn’t work out.

[@beersnarkunbleached5660]

These record labels are evil. No wonder why they always get called "the devil" whenever artists talk about them.

[@jungboomer_5362]

Guess nobody is going to talk about how all these record execs are all part of the tribe, guess it’s all just a big cohen-cidence

[@MB-nb7yq]

Dirk Bogard wait, what tribe? 😳

[@beersnarkunbleached5660]

Tilli G not sure if you wanna go down that rabbit hole, buddy

[@beersnarkunbleached5660]

Dirk Bogard exactly too

[@crnkmnky]

@@jungboomer_5362 Ahmet Ertegun and Arif Mardin were not, but it's hard to find other exceptions to the rule. It's a good question, but of course I try not to play around such rabbit holes. Check out the Complex interview with Lyor Cohen. You can smell the sulfur… kinda?

[@matt-hew69]

Tom Macdonald and Zuby are 2 independent artists who are killin it right now.

[@rocker6599]

In my experience the vast majority of musicians don't know how the music business works and fail to actually claim some of their income streams. Always read a contract with a calculator in one hand.

[@JohnDoe-mj8rf]

And hire a lawyer.

[@mxp14242]

John Doe I was going to say exactly that. Contracts aren’t written to be read and understood by the average person- they’re worded and formed so as to be binding and enforceable by law. If you aren’t familiar with the terminology or are confused by the formatting, you couldn’t hope to understand one simply by reading the words on the page. If it was written by a lawyer, then you need to have it read by one as well. Knowing what it says isn’t the same as knowing what it means.

[@Mikaek]

I had an similar experience like this but on a much smaller scale. Guy tried to get me onto his “label” and showed me documentation of contracts from other business ventures that were successful. Initially we agreed on a $4000 advance with touring, merch, singles all going to help pay off the debt I had and make some money for me. After three revisions to the “contract” where I would be making less money, I told him it wouldn’t work out and that I’m done with him. Of course this left me with more debt than I started with because I had a pre approved loan I was going to use to pay my debt off at a lower rate. This also caused me to almost give up on music because of how shady the industry and people are. Now I’m trying to get back into writing and paying off the debt. Moral of all this, learn to play, write, perform, record, and engineer your own music, you’ll be happier. It may take time but it’s a great thing to invest in if you’re creative.

[@Joseph-Tapper]

I would love to see more music business videos! As a musician myself just starting out these videos are incredibly helpful to get me thinking about how to support myself and not get into terrible situations. I've learned a little bit of music business from my classes on film and videogame scoring in college but it's the absolute bare minimum.

[@arcadiansounds2850]

i think a solid part three would be transforming this, bad things into the music industry and finish it with, what you SHOULD DO as an independent artist to succeed. youve done all the hard work of researching, I think this would help a lot of people and get a lot of views

[@KingUnKaged]

Kreayshawn: "It sucks man, anybody who walked into the studio got a percentage of the profits without even doing anything" Also Kreayshawn: "I didn't write the lyrics, edit the music, or play the instruments but dammit I deserve more money!"

[@lilithdemonia74]

Right. Point is her desires for max $ for little work is not much different from the labels. Fans want to act like the "artists" are all totally innocent here, but noone tells them to buy these mansions and fleet of cars and have a "posse" around 24/7. Its not like this is a new story....people need to learn from history instead of just repeating it.

[@fallout560]

She was the one singing though, right?

[@_Aemse]

i mean she does the singing, dedicates her own life to their "image", and has to pay for it so yeah i think in her case she probably deserves more of the money - anyone can use an editing program or throw some catchy lyrics together, how many of the people "behind the scenes" are willing to set aside the next few years to actually bring their own music to life (or have the talent too), seems like they're just venture capitalists at best or con men & gangsters in most cases - once the bet goes bad you actively thwart any "re-coupment attempts" & take away their livelihood or means to pay you back. Like the way I see it, they came asking her for a fucking loan and to do the heavy lifting while they took the cream of the profit. Guarantee that some of these "shelved" acts are like stalked by record dealers tryna sucker someone in with predatory contracts (suge knight anyone?) and that its how they make their money, including sometimes getting a hit act that you can milk extra hard.

[@kelsopresley]

Ayo, can yall check out my music too? Im trying to build some awareness. Just need some support anywhere where i can get it? Its a short, 2 minute rap.

[@SvenDzahov]

@@kelsopresley ill peep

[@timflatus]

Personal contact with your fans is golden. I've only just started down this route and have a long way to go, but already I know who and where my fans and superfans are and I know what they listen to. Several songs that I thought would be too personal have proved to be most popular. If I hadn't gone down the self-promotion route I would still be unsure whether I had fans at all.

[@dystopicstate]

This explains so much. I grew up in the Bronx during the late 80s, and 90s. That era was full of conscience rap and hip hop that opened my mind to everything from the criminal justice system to ancient history. Subjects like Black Wall Street that were never formally taught until I went to college, I first learned about through 90s hip hop. Now, lyricism is basically non-existent, let alone any intellectualism. Mumble rap has taken over and all these artists are basically cookie cutter versions of each other. But it makes sense when you realize that labels would look for "artists" who barely read let alone understand that they don't really own their money or their masters. It's sad cuz teenagers eat that shit up thinking it's the hottest shit out when really it's all propaganda. But no one is taught to think for themselves anymore, just to chase a bag they're never really going to own.

[@bayareanewman1566]

One of my favorite rappers out from the 90’s and who’s still active today is Paris. He’s from the Bay Area, and produces his own music. He speaks the truth, but nobody wants to hear it nowadays. Check him out! His first 2 albums are some of my favorite of all time

[@mogomotsimmogapi8559]

Dear Spencer My name is Mogomotsi from RSA. I just started following you and just want to say I find your content very educational. I wish more artists can watch your material before getting trapped into contracts. I wish to thank you and KZbin for what I've learned. If you could please make a video on the genesis of a contract basic things..Contracts on paper should be evolving to video contracts where parties discuss and agree on terms. This will cut out all the riff-raff jargon etc etc when it gets to litigation- technological advancement allows for this. You could also look at an artist called RUSS he is incredibly talented. Once again thank you.

[@TheHuskyK9]

7:05 No better example of that than Kim Hill, a former member of the Black Eyed Peas. When the Black Eyed Peas were still underground hip-hop, they were starting to gain popularity. Unfortunately, the label executives thought that it would be better if Kim showed off more of her body and sexualize her image. According to Kim, she viewed Will.i.am and the other members as her younger brothers since she was with them from the start, and she refused to change her image, so she left the group. She was eventually replaced by Fergie (someone who fit the image the execs wanted) and the Peas' image changed from hip-hop to mainstream pop and EDM. Nowadays, Fergie quit the group and the Peas have been irrelevant since 2014. According to Kim, she did not regret her decision and the members were still supporting her behind-the-scenes, even after she left. There's a documentary discussing about all of this in greater detail that I highly recommend watching.

[@gabrielar9611]

My favorite black eyed peas song is Joints & Jams. Kim was a whole other vibe.

[@gingerwingerful]

Link to the documentary

[@luvjonezmusic]

Hey Spencer, another industry element of contracts to talk about is royalty withholdings, for major or indie artists. I've been handed contracts by boutique indie labels that withhold royalty payments until you hit a certain sales amount, but if that sales amount is unrealistic for a new or unproven artist, you may never get any money for your effort AND even if you do get an eventual payout, you only get half of it because the label takes 50% for the business side of the deal. So, you could be stuck with paperwork that pays you nothing forever because you didn't catch that small print about sales goal and the label retains rights for the project forever too.

[@bdubz_det]

Great vid Spencer. The only thing ill add add here as someone working in this daily is that she was working very heavily in the industry directing music videos before her hit record. She can play dumb all she wants acting like she got played but she knew the game and sold her soul for a hit record. Fun fact: most in the entertainment industry (women & men) sold their soul or slept their way in for fame but push a narrative that they got played to take the heat off of themselves. Karma is real.. if you wanna be legit in this dont sell out.

[@thezeddhotel]

I almost signed to a big label in 2015 until I read the entire document they wanted me to sign. I will not name them but they wanted to front me 1.5 million and their royalty rates were completely unacceptable. They let me read over it with a lawyer I hired to make sure I wasn't being scammed and we both read it out loud and highlighted things we wanted changed. They wanted me to leave my writing credits to about 33 people and create a sound that was just not gonna happen. They wanted me to change my nose and darken my skin as well as delete any trace of music I had written previously. I literally walked into the board room three days later with my lawyer where the executive was smoking a LITERAL cigarette and I took out my lighter and burned it in front of him after trying to compromise on a lot of that corruption that was typed out in fine print. I am now an independent artist and my sixth self produced album comes out at midnight. Thank you for posting videos like this to warn people. It's a money laundering scheme and a pyramid scheme at the same time. Totally illegal and they always find a loop hole. The only label I would ever sign to is One Independent Records upon reviewing their documents and hearing what their artists have to say. These record deals are a form of human trafficking and it needs to change drastically.

[@ojoemojo]

So when lil uzi vert stood on his money and his height turned to 9’10’’ he was actually standing on the label’s money lol

[@SinserNarmah537]

@The Shinobi of Chernobyl 😂

[@massculini]

I think labels are still Worth it , in as much as they pay artists peanuts , they have the power to keep the artist afloat and up-to-date ... Being indipendent artists is a real tedious and a desperate hustle

[@vibhorsharma6432]

I would like to hear what happens when your music actually blows up in part 3

[@ShotByGreenLightTV]

HipHop 🐲🔫 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnythXWppaxkjMU

[@tjslam26]

Those are the ones we are actually hearing about and what led him to create parts 1 and 2. Big, successful artists complaining that the label takes too much of a cut and struggling to get the rights to their music.

[@Treyy101]

@@tjslam26 when a artist is done with the label like after they already did their albums do they get their masters again?

[@pixelvnce]

I’m a professional musician and struggle to moonlight music and work-as do many of us nowadays. My buddy Gary and myself have this duo and we’re always looking to find ways to promote our music and make a living while doing it. I found both parts 1and 2 very informative. The end of this interview I especially paid attention to as that’s the way to work it! The last guy on this interview, Bryan, sounded like he got it right. Get rid of the middle man as well as the greedy record labels, who for years, have been ripping off many artists

[@yazzkits1043]

I like how you always balance up at the end and state the fact that at the end of the day the record labels are trying to make profit,Record deals are not for Charity,it's a buisness at the end of the day.

[@IgnorancEnArrogance]

One of the most unfortunate examples IMO is what happened to Big Star in the 70's. Their first label, Stax Records were just a broke and incompetent label that somehow got lucky with the band. Stax signed a deal with Columbia records for financial help who just had no faith in the band for whatever reason, only printed a few thousand copies and didn't even try to promote the album at all. They even removed any remaining albums off the shelves, they didn't even want to wait for them all to sell just after release! The band put out two more classic albums that went unnoticed and unsuccessful, and one of the two main songwriters died in a car accident in 1978. When you listen those albums though, especially the first, it's incredible! Instant rock n roll classics! Amazing production and fun Beatles-esque songs that could have easily been massive radio hits if marketed properly. Their songs had a big influence on a lot of 90's bands, and the song In The Street was the theme song from That 70's show, a song I would think most Americans know and love at this point, but never cared to find out who wrote it. They all assume it was Cheap Trick!

[@RuslanKD]

Great video. As someone whose been working professionally in music you’re down in this is on point. She’s right. Anyone in the room gets a piece of the writing and publishing if they contribute. It’s also important to note that a “million dollar deal” is not just about advances. She coulda get a 300k advance, 200k to record the project and the rest allocated to market the project. All of which is recoupable and paid back solely from her slither I’d the royalty rate. Usually around 12-18%. Ryan Leslie is a legend. His superphone platform has been extremely helpful to help me better monetize my art.

[@Cre8Lounge]

Ryan would make a good guru for musicians by selling a system that would change the music business

[@georgeprice4212]

On the subject of albums being shelved: there are at least two artists I know of who shelved their album: Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys' "Smile", which eventually did see release) and John Fogerty (his 1976 album, "Hoodoo", widely and very poorly bootlegged).

[@louisbourbon8973]

I thought it was crazy when I found out some of my favorite artists from the 90's and early 2000's were making more money now as lesser known indie acts than when they were all over MTV.

[@Emmajordan1998]

Please do a part 3! This is really eye opening! I am definitely going to watch more about Ryan Leslie and his methods! I do everything myself with my music, and want to keep it that way, but I feel like I am missing out on promotion and the correct way to do it. Any tips on marketing/promoting? Maybe a discussion on strictly promotion contracts and if they are better (more creative control, money, etc.) for artists? Thank you! 😊

[@collettemclafferty2614]

I was in the music industry for years... the whole ride was so rough that I couldn’t listen to music at home for many years when I got out of it.

[@eri_ododo]

Are you better now?

[@robg8784]

...Sorry To Hear...Wow that's a Tough Ride

[@collettemclafferty2614]

Ewaoluwa Okesanya thank you for asking. I still have some psychological blocks with it. I started listening to music again this year and perform occasionally, but I miss the relationship I had with music before I got into the business.

[@eri_ododo]

@@collettemclafferty2614 You'll be fine. 👌🏾

[@Innerslaught]

I'm a songwritter. I record my songs on a rent studio. I still don't know exactly where my direction is with my songs. I fell into the xraymusic couple years ago. Paying for dropbox to submit my songs with no clear result. I think i just want my songs to be heard so I just uploaded them on soundcloud and stop paying xraymusic. Watching your part 1 and this really gives me new insight of how the music industry works. Thanks.

[@Datanditto]

I remember hearing in shock how James Brown once signed an up and coming singer/ dancer that was starting to get a lot of major label attention and then shelved their project to stifle the young dudes career. It happens..

[@TheBroducerzpresMrFuzion]

As an aspiring musician trying to turn this passion into a business, that Ryan Leslie interview was such an eye opener. Thank you Spencer

[@CodyMcManus]

Hey Spencer! These videos have been recommended on my channel and I have found them very entertaining, thanks for putting the time in on these ones. I don’t have any experience with major labels but I have negotiated a couple deals with smaller indie labels ($30,000 deal). If you ever wanted any insight into that I’d be happy to go over the contract with you and break down some of the numbers. I am planning on doing some videos on labels here in the near future myself!

[@ivorydungeon909]

Sounds interesting to me FWIW

[@justmyopinion1098]

Bet

[@DRUMNERD]

Awesome content Spencer! As someone in a band signed to a smaller indie I can fully appreciate and see value in everything you cover. The split we have is 50/50 which seems more common for indies than the average 85/15 for majors. Thank you again for this!

[@pwabd2784]

I have 2 songs on spotify that I made in my living room and recorded onto an acer laptop. I've made a little over $1 since 2019. Since I'm not in debt to a label, I've technically made more money than kreayshawn...

[@saintarj4552]

ultimately nowadays if an artist gets stiffed by a label, its his/her own fault, theres so many record label horror stories that you'd be dumb not to read and understand the fine print

[@tonylancer7367]

This is what the new kids, especially hip-hop/pop world suffer from. Record labels appeal to them because they can finally drive that 2020 Phantom and show it to their mothers, but record labels pray on them, give them contracts that are difficult to understand and that everything will be smooth sailing. Ugh.

[@orlock20]

That's why it's called contract negotiations. As Beth Hart said, "You have the right to say no."

[@andythedishwasher1117]

Dude, I would subscribe to a channel devoted to this material. As an up and coming artist, this information is incredibly valuable. My friend started a label last year, and we are doing our best to build it into something big, but we need to understand how these things work so we can start offering more ethical and professional services to our clients.

[@klausmatrajt8480]

Hey, I am an audio engineer and whenever I worked with label artists, the studio got paid by the label, not the artist. I also think that the advance money is paid off with album sales, merch, concert tickets, etc. Isn't that right?

[@wesonthekeyz1796]

I also felt the same though record labels are different. I think there is an advance in which artists are required to pay for every expense using the advance money n there is an advance where the label still caters for the artist's expenses but gets paid back through albums sales,shows, merch etc. as long the artist is able to break even. That's why young artists are always encouraged to invest their advance money instead of splurging on material things. That's why also some have contract disputes coz of not reading the contract right. Some record label executives are shady and take advantage of the talented(uneducated) youth. But an advance is still an enticing form of slavery coz you still have to pay it back.

[@AnymMusic]

so, I've seen a few people wonder how to can grow independantly, and whilst I'm not in the hiphop/pop industry nor am big myself, I would like to give some tips.. social media is your biggest friend. in 3 years I've gone from 0 to roughly 100 followers on insta by making content. think for example what you do in a day, maybe post some pics you took whilst on holiday, post the process of making the song/writing the lyrics and maybe even talk about the struggle you went through. of course we can't forget promoting the music. see what parts you can cut to use as a little preview about 3 weeks or so before release, and then semi-consistently tease the track. another thing is to hint at the track. for instance if you have a song called "sun goes down", you can post a nice image of a sunset and capitalize the words Sun, Goes, and Down to hint at the song that you have coming out. and in 4 years I've gone from 0 to 170 subs on YT simply by uploading pretty consistently and promoting it on chat programs like discord, and platforms like Instagram and twitter. idk if this will help anyone, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents

[@BORGESALEPH78]

Steve Vai says that the best advice he ever received was from Frank Zappa: "Own your publishing."

[@bloodmajesty414]

I think that goes to the writing industry as well. In today's climate where publishing houses's knowledge on marketing is on par with the writer who self study - you might as well just study how to market yourself and self-publish.

[@lebe220]

Van Morrison learned that early enough.

[@iamoxor]

Thank you man, this was one of the most interesting KZbin videos I've watched this year so far. Everything was cristal clear!

[@lisamay5649]

This probably explains why some very successful musicians in past decades have decided to cut their careers shorter than others who continued in the business. They busted their butts fulfilling their record contracts and touring, then decided that it was no longer worth it when it became just going through the motions and falling into unhealthy lifestyle habits while the record companies they'd been indebted to wouldn't pay them what they were worth. Taking the "quit while you're ahead" approach was the best decision they could make.

[@fulmetaltiger57]

Jojo said the same thing about Atlantic. They wanted her as a pop singer but she's always been a r&b singer. She just said whatever because she had no more fight. Her own words. I'm glad that now she has her own record label for the past few years now. Good to know is a great album.

[@trapdeplugearma3940]

I’m loving this series, If you could talk about how can we grow keeping as an independent artist

[@TheAnmolShelke]

Yeah this would be amazing topic

[@Steve_305]

The day everybody wants to become independent thats when the record labels will go bankrupt

[@jordanthomas8540]

@@Steve_305 Nah they own to much catalog to ever go broke

[@gillewismusic]

As songwriters, the split is usually whoever is in the room shares the pie equally. If there is additional writing further down the line, it’s a negotiation that depends on what has been changed and to what extent. Usually a person who suggested one word wouldn’t get more than a percent or two, if even.

[@1KILOMUSIC]

Nice Work Spencer, you hit a high note, Part 3 could be around Eminem´s confrontation on 8Mile dispute (took it to the Oscars Night) with the Game changer Trump signed "Orrin B. Hatch Music Modernization Act" that bury many options to recover old material to their right owners...maybe(you´re good at find this out). Remember Music is the only industry where the artist lose the rights of his Masterwork for life, something it never happened to writers...good job!

[@JP-dc3zn]

I was fortunate to have a very smart music insider who helped me in the beginning of my career and taught me the "pitfalls" of a record deal. Most new artists don't know the simple facts of having points of need included. Here are several: release date for the recording, maintaining creative control (her problem), ownership of the songs/masters

[@JRCSalter]

So the record company can essentially give a loan to an artist, intentionally not release the album, and thus ensuring the artist cannot pay back their advance, and then ask for the money back. That is some truly shitty behaviour. I've read a lot about contracts for authors, and they are still bad but nowhere near as awful. At least writers get to keep their advance whether the book earns it out or not. In return for this, the publisher may wish to keep the copyright of the product for the life of the copyright, in all current and future formats (many publishers missed out on profiting off ebooks because they never anticipated this, so now they like to future proof the contracts). Many also say you cannot write for any other publisher (though such non-compete clauses may not be able to stand up in court), and they like to give you a percentage of royalties on the net, rather than gross, which, if they organise their accounts just right, could mean you earn literally nothing. It looks like if you are an artist, in pretty much every field, it is better, more profitable, easier, and more fulfilling to go indie.

[@87JSpirit]

This was spot on, especially when you got to Ryan, I've been a fan of his since 2009, and have watched him grow and move around intelligently since!!

[@justin.tessier]

Hey Spencer, I’m a professional musician signed to a big label, would love to talk to you about how things work.

[@6oundStudio]

cool video about VR. the song is great too. keep on rocking, dude

[@fourfing]

ok bot

[@justin.tessier]

four fing lol

[@ransmomebloke1949]

Did you watch Part 1 & 2 in full? He explains how it works.

[@justin.tessier]

@@ransmomebloke1949 I did -- at 13:29 he says, "if you're one of the handful of people watching this who have legitimate experience in this business, please email me, reach out to me, we'll discuss on a Zoom chat for part three"

[@marksmusicplace3627]

I used to be with a independent label that had a R&B group that had a small bit of success but I was not knowledgeable about the industry at that time but since then have learned the music industry very well

[@phoenixcampagnuolo8375]

You should do a video on how the record companies get around payola

[@SpencerCornelia]

payola is on my list of video topics to make. hopefully there's plenty of articles/videos/blogs to research as I'm pretty unfamiliar with it

[@SecondhandWatermelon]

@@SpencerCornelia I read an article that said independent promoters work with radio stations to make its seem like the payment isn't going directly to the stations. Even going as far as fake invoices disguised as promotional expenses to make the transactions seem legit. You would have to look into it more than that obviously, but I think it could be a good starting point

[@SpencerCornelia]

@@SecondhandWatermelon wow that's interesting and shady lmao

[@shadieossei4336]

@Spencer Cornelia talking about how many mouths to feed there are a lot. From the artist side, their managers take a share of an artist's gross revenue generated (from endorsement deals to merch), if artists audit a label they pay their accountants, they pay their lawyers for legal representation, they pay for their tour registration in order to get booked by a promoter. Agents acquire work for artists in terms of getting them booked by a concert promoter and take a percentage of the fees generated from tours. They pay their producers advances and share a percentage of their sound recording (Masters) royalties with them if they are independent. They also pay back their tour support money to the record labels with money generated from tours. Session singers are also paid by producers who hire them. PROs (ASCAP, BMI, SESSAC etc) also take away their expensive costs of administrations from the royalties a song generates before passing the rest down to the publishers. The publishers then pay a small percentage of royalties to songwriters. Union organizations also have to be paid dues by artists they represent. These are just a few I can name and there is more!!! My message is that the music industry today is a total mess and someone needs to come up with the best business model that will benefit everyone, I hope I would be the one. No artist should sign to a record label or a publisher if they don't know what's in for them or the benefits these companies will provide for them!

[@SpencerCornelia]

holy smokes, that's a lot of mouths that get fed. sadly, it sounds like the artist eats last

[@shadieossei4336]

@@SpencerCornelia Unfortunately that's the mess the industry finds itself. But I shall start a tech company to revolutionize the industry with a better business model! The old system has to pass and a new system has to be put in place!

[@eri_ododo]

@@shadieossei4336 Good luck.

[@SoniqSounds]

This is very important - every artist needs to financially secure the bag. Make sure you understand publishing and masters as well. Get your ducks in row before you sign anything. There are hundreds of books and free classes online available. Watch youtube videos. Be curious! Take charge.

[@CorePositionTrading]

Wow, just noticed you have Liar's Poker on the bookshelf on the back right ... LOVED that book ... talk about a story ... Salomon Brothers in the 80's ... Loved it

[@StefanBoeykens]

Love the insights. I’m not a professional musician and release everything on my own under a Creative Commons license. But I heard quite a few ways that artists often don’t really earn much, even when on the surface they appear to have made it.

[@MarcoCastilloWorld]

Great man! Thank you for the part 2 running to see part 3, my father is the last guy from a famous Brazilian old group Trio Irakitan, I know a lot about the industry in Brazil and I'd love to share it.