Part 4: Hydrogen, Is It Safe?

Hyundai Motors presents you the world's first hydrogen video guidebook, “The Value and Future of Eco-Friendly Hydrogen”.
Part 4: “Hydrogen, Is It Safe?” will inform you of the safety of hydrogen, along with the relative risk of automobile fuel, hydrogen tank safety evaluation test, and the Hyundai Motor NEXO test process selected as the safest SUV.
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Visit the Hyundai Website to learn more about NEXO, New Zealand's first hydrogen powered SUV www.hyundai.co.nz/next-gen/fu...

[@Account_CB]

Id suggest another safety feature would be to add some natural pigment powder coating to any tank & pressure release device...so in the event of a leak say on your drive or obviously in a crash situation...the powder colour dispersion will allow you to see that the presence of hydrogen is there - even if it may not identify how much volume has escaped but at least an instant indicator of leakage present

[@lucasmachain]

Hydrogen does not accumulate, it’s the lightest and smallest atom in the universe, it will disperse if it has the chance, the inside of the car is not pressurized after all.

[@S85B50Engine]

There's a video of a Toyota Mirai tank getting shot and pretty much surviving a shot from a 50 caliber firearm. I'd call that safe.

[@Coecoo]

I've watched that video as well and if you thought about it or even read the description, you'd know it didn't "survive". The tank was pierced and gas started to shoot out of it. They didn't expose it to any sort of fire or actual dangerous metal-on-metal crash esque situations either.

[@Growmetheus]

@@Coecoo Great addition. Like the video says, any spark from the firearm wouldnt be able to trace a path to the source like the fumes of other fuel, being less smoke-like vapors and more dispersed. Ive got good hopes despite it!

[@pubuduchathurangeekanayake7297]

@@Coecoo The thing is as the hydrogen is lightest gas, pressurized dispersed as soon as the the creation of the puncture, The ignition takes part in a mixture of hydrogen and air, if the surround is properly ventilated the danger can be avoided.

[@r.i.peperoniiiiroh9625]

lets hope the engine is as bulletproof too ;)

[@S85B50Engine]

@@Coecoo the idea is that it disperses in such a way that the air to hydrogen ratio is too lean to sustain a combustion reaction. We are talking about Toyota, the masters of reliability and overengineering.

[@ramdas363]

@ Hyundai NZ I'm curious to see your data regarding regular leakage. How much hydrogen fuel does the tank lose over time? How does it compare to battery discharge?

[@Chasval]

I am not an expert, but I have heard it said that leakage of hydrogen is a global regulated and the cars need to respect that. I heard a Toyota engineer claim that even if you left the car in the garage for its "life" you would still have a full tank at the end... side note I drive a Nexo and it is amazing.

[@ramdas363]

@@Chasval Happy to hear you enjoy your car. How is the fueling infrastructure where you live? About no leakage over the car's lifetime, that seems like quite the impossible claim. I'm not an expert, same as you but I'm suspicious of that. Either way thinking it over I guess the tank itself wouldn't be the main problem but rather losses along the way, during production, transport and refueling. With methane it's a major issue and H2 is an even smaller molecule and we store it under higher pressure. Maybe not a problem for you directly but more of an environmental/political one that I've not seen talked about much.

[@k1fizz]

@@ramdas363 The tanks are designed to store hydrogen without leaking. I, personally, have come home from a month long vacation to find that I've lost 0 range while I was gone. To compare, my BEV lost about 1% per day over the same time period.

[@Erowens98]

​@@k1fizzyou can't stop hydrogen from leaking, maybe you can minimize it. But physically, because it is the smallest atom, it will leak though solid walls of any material in existence. Especially under pressure. To be clear, im sure its slow enough for your needs if you claim it is, maybe its even negligible. But it physically can not be zero.

[@ericlsanchez]

So instead of exploding the tank would just… rip? Can we get a video of that actually happening?

[@sevencostanza3931]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIfIkpp8otKqd5I

[@sahanda2000]

puhahaha... I wonder how it happens too....

[@dr.weirdbeard6054]

"All gases have to risk of exploding, depending on "...please show me how exactly you explode inert gases like argon....?

[@Joe_Lopes]

Was the engine running during the crash testing?

[@lucasmachain]

It’s a fuel cell electric engine, it does not use combustion to generate electricity but a RedOx reaction with a catalyst. Inside the cell the hydrogen is combined with O2 to generate water (and free electrons) so there’s no ignition danger in that part of the process no matter how broken it gets after a crash. It will just stop working. On the personal note the most dangerous part of that car I think it’s the obligatory lithium battery pack it needs to compensate when the fuel cell power is not enough.

[@jonathanprime1507]

What would happen if it was exposed to fire tho?

[@0-Templar-0]

​@jacksmith6015Poof. Then boom.

[@rogmorts1]

So the tank has a emergency vent to depressurise when in a fire I'm guessing there must be chance of a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion) when exposed to extreme heat or fire for a prolonged period.

[@emergencyresponse5210]

Not true mate, A TPRD (Thermal pressure release device) is fitted so its not a PRV like a regular pressure vessel it dumps the whole contents rapidly to ensure no B.L.E.V.E.

[@rogmorts1]

@@emergencyresponse5210 that's good to hear as I'm all for H2 vehicles

[@kmetmosnja6341]

@@emergencyresponse5210 where does it release it when it's inside a car? That amount and a spark from colosion would definitely made a barbecue of whatever is around 2m at least....

[@sahanda2000]

@@kmetmosnja6341 puhahaha, there is a fire, it gets to the H2 tank, pressure gets higher, an that f.cking so called "TPRD" releases the hydrogen out fast !!! what can go wrong??? puhahahahah

[@Propelled]

Anyone who has not worked with H2 might be duped into being a fan. H2 autoignites easily. All material designed to hold and handle it is expensive. This is a fool’s errand.

[@nosuchthing4789]

How efficient is electrical conversion? What kind of generators are used?

[@youcansave15ormoreoncarins75]

It uses a fuel cell, which is way more efficient then combustion engines. But hydrogen itself isn't sustainable with our current climate.

[@sherifnabil50]

@@youcansave15ormoreoncarins75 why isn't it sustainable?

[@nickmartin3647]

It's pretty efficient. The only drawback is how much hydrogen you can carry.

[@nickmartin3647]

@@youcansave15ormoreoncarins75 why?

[@siiluviilu]

​@@nickmartin3647 most hydrogen at the moment is produced from fossil fuels, about 90% i believe, green hydrogen insustries are being propped up but it's taking a bit

[@sebsmith5100]

2:10 but carbon finer metals at 200 Celcius. 400F Steel melts at 1450 Celcius, 2800F

[@Testtestnotest]

not an expert but will share my knowledge nevertheless. Carbon Fiber itself can withstand 3700 dergees celcius but the resin (plastic) that holds the fibers together are what limits cfrp' s temperature whitstanding limits and can vary depending on fabrication. I have heard some can withstand 600 degrees celcius and may be some can be more.

[@icare7151]

Hyundai XCIENT Fuel Cell ♻️H2O back to Nature ⛅️Clean Air For Life Green Hydrogen fuel cells are the future to have one. Living in Colorado Springs, Colorado USA🇺🇸 the Hyundai Nexo FCEV was high atitude tested here on Pikes Peak at 14,000ft last year. Awesome performance. Building my first hydrogen fuel cell in 1982, there is no path to Net Zero Emissions without green hydrogen fuel cells, a verifiable scientific data fact. Cheers, KP Colorado Springs, CO🇺🇸

[@sillymesilly]

@@jadenspires1891they don’t purify air. Trees do that only

[@christianschmitz732]

1:34 Wait a minute. An „explosive“ Sticker on a hydrogen gas tank?

[@christianschmitz732]

Yeah, thats definetly Not comforting. I just thought it was funny because the next thing the narrator says is that hydrogen is not dangerous in its gas form, when even the stickers indicate, that it is.

[@gabrielrousseau_NM]

@Geek It burns in a second. Doesn't splash and burn for long time like gasoline. I'll take hydrogen any day. Not to mention you already have a hydrogen vehicle. Gasoline is primarily made of hydrogen and the carbon is the dangerous aspect of it.

[@okman9684]

​@@gabrielrousseau_NMman you have some big brain cells to think that hydrocarbons and hydrogens are same. If you know some proper chemistry then you will know that hydrocarbons like gasoline creates heat by break the bond while hydrogen creates heat by forming bonf. Not to mention hydrogen has more volume than any hydrocarbon. Both fuels are not even remotely comparable. If you use hydrogen in your gas car it will just kill your engine

[@KevinBelmontLuna]

More effectient than a combustion, lesser than electric. Not enough stations and it's much more expensive to fuel up with hydrogen than petrol; but I guess Dihydrogen prices weren't affected by gas's hiking prices. ⬅️Correct me if I'm wrong!

[@Testtestnotest]

electric cars have it' s limits especially driven on their limits. For example if the battery reaches certain temperature and activates it' s safe mode the brakes are basically turning off and upon impact their fires are riskier to survive. And fast charging' s cost from fast charging stations basically sums the cost of running it with a combustion engine vehicle. But both are nice to have even though i prefer the exhaust note even though if i am going to spend a few bucks extra.

[@Erowens98]

Problem with electric vehicles is that they do not achieve their goal of reducing the climate impact of cars. As lithium battery production releases extreme amounts of Co2. Hydrogen, while often produced via fracking, can in fact be produced in an eco friendly manner. And thus HEVs and HICEs actually can solve the eco problem.

[@jameso1447]

If there is any eco problem. Climate paranoia is not a science. It's a religion. Every useful and economical method of powering society is shamed and outlawed by politicians. The government's principal hold on power is enforcing poverty. Wealthy and independent people are very difficult to control. Concerning the scarcity theory of subterranean fuels, Earth naturally vents enough methane to consume ALL the oxygen in Earth's atmosphere every 3,000 years. Subterranean fuels are produced underground at a rate presently 30% to 50% as fast as we consume them. PS We are the reason volcanic activity has nearly stopped EXCEPT where such fuels are not harvested e.g. Iceland, Hawaii, Fugi, Yellowstone. Concerning CO2 levels the average CO2 levels during the 200 million years the dinosaurs existed was 1,500ppm. Dinosaurs went extinct when CO2 fell below 800ppm. Why? Because plant growth is stunted below 800pmm.@@Erowens98

[@bobkowalski7655]

Now compare that to lithium battery fire lol. Once it catches fire, it can't be stopped.

[@richarddunbar2963]

It still has a lithium ion battery

[@platin2148]

Yep a tiny one. They actually need it right now but there are plans to remove this normal lithium battery with a less dense but higher lifecycle battery.

[@user-go4ii2dl8d]

3:06 Bruh! *Not North Korea!* 😂😂😂😂

[@_________3082]

Safe depending what speed about to crash.

[@Jehtblu]

Redflag from questionable logic: "we're building them near heavily populated areas, so they must be safe :)

[@dontran391]

So, just to be sure, Hydrogen powered cars like that Toyota Mirai will not become a Hiddenburg when it got into a car crash accident right?

[@sevencostanza3931]

James May has both EV and FCEV, he says FCEV safer in crash---- kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZKsiGh5hrZmkNE

[@sevencostanza3931]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIfIkpp8otKqd5I

[@dimitristripakis7364]

There are too many imprecisions in this video to mention.

[@DavidKFZ]

What happens in a 2 car crash when the other car is on fire and the hydrogen tank is in the danger zone

[@In_love_with_music]

Same shit when you get two petrol ones crashed they sat on fire most times and atill driving.all around world

[@DavidKFZ]

@@In_love_with_music So it doesn't explode in a massive fireball, it just kinda shoots flames everywhere?

[@janlomboy5664]

Even if liquid hydrogen car?

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

Hydrogen is only liquid under really cold temperatures or high presure if the presure is lost the hydrogen will disperse from the tank even jf you where tksomehow light it on fire it is just a big blow torch becouse the gan gets released with a lot of force

[@FletcherHillier]

@@geek8001 You just need high pressure and it will stay in a liquid state

[@FletcherHillier]

@@geek8001 You can use supercritical liquefaction which occurs above 180PSI at room temperature, which is not technically a liquid. Its really not that easy to fuse hydrogen into helium or we wouldn't be running out of helium. Rockets use cryogenic hydrogen storage because the energy density is a lot higher, which is a lot more important to rockets than cars. Liquid nitrogen and an insulated tank can help improve energy density. Even if you have to vent off the hydrogen in a failure, the tank will still be able to maintain more than enough pressure to get to a fill station or a mechanic

[@FletcherHillier]

@@geek8001 It doesn't need to exceed the fuel storage capacity of modern vehicles for 90% of drivers. I would buy a hydrogen fueled car if it could save me money, even if I have to fill up more. I'm not an automotive engineer so honestly I don't know what the best approach to collision safety is. If we can make gasoline relatively safe as a fuel source, I believe we can make hydrogen safe as well

[@FletcherHillier]

@@geek8001 You're probably right, I like fuel cells but I still really like the fuel agnostic engines that Hemi is working on for their versatility. You can either produce hydrogen or biodiesel to run it for a while until you get situated in a crisis. Even if you never run them on Hydrogen they have to be stronger

[@captaindunsell8568]

What a lie … people garage their cars and all the leakage accumulates in a closed room …

[@johnassheton2123]

Please STOP saying hydrogen is an Energy source! It's an energy CARRIER - which means you have to MAKE IT, not just mine it / drill for it, this means the production of hydrogen creates a net energy LOSS (approx 20%) from the input energy. It is a possible energy carrier, but it does require VERY high pressures to store enough to replace carbon-based fuel and required about 2.5 times the volume to enable the same milage. It does weigh less, which is good, but takes up much more volume to carry.

[@Erowens98]

The low density is why they pressurize it. HEVs are also more energy efficient than petrol or diesel engines so they need less fuel (by weight) for the same range.

[@jameso1447]

Such an obvious advertisement. LOL

[@DoomOfConviction]

So instead of an explosion the car releases high explosive gas. Hmm that’s one step before an explosion, specially if metal pieces fly around due to a crash and sparks are everywhere…. My happy future Is an electric car running into a hydrogen one, burning batteries nobody can extinguish mixed with high explosive gas in the streets…. A nice Monday

[@bobkowalski7655]

The hydrogen is kept really cold so it does not ignite as easily, is lighter than air, and the tank has a release valves making it shoot into the sky releasing and dispersing instantly. Actually safer than gasoline cars.

[@k1fizz]

@@bobkowalski7655 and safer than battery cars too!

[@Saurabhkumar-gx2wu]

Other fuels, see those

[@j-s.w7909]

It took a high powered .50 Cal round, shot at point blank range, to pierce the Hydrogen tank used by Toyota. I am sure shrapnel will not pierce the tank.

[@platin2148]

Yeah i also prefer the lithium grill sadly it’s less nice for people. It’s actually quite crazy what temperatures one needs for it to truly ignite. Especially compared to a Lithium Ion battery which will ignite itself just because of the vibrations..

[@antonbroos7121]

Hydrogen almost always explodes because of how fast it finds the necessary oxygen to do so.

[@user-ic7mv6bj4w]

LPG cars have been used in vehicles since 1928 and it is much more flamable and the tank is basic design. Hear much about any explosions from these vehicles? I have heard more about Tesla Lithium electrolite fires then from LPG.

[@FletcherHillier]

@@user-ic7mv6bj4w True, our police force uses LPG cars and they have never had a fire incident

[@okman9684]

​@@FletcherHillierLPG doesn't leak and doesn't need high pressure to store. Even if hydrogen doesn't explodes(which is more likely) thae sheer amount of pressure that tank contains will kill any person nearby by shrapnels from explosion

[@FletcherHillier]

@@okman9684 I still don't think LPG is enough of an improvement to justify the cost of conversion. If they could run on methane aswell I'd buy one.

[@its_Savian]

good luck when a factory of this goes to flame. it would be like a hydrogen bomb 😔 🙏 hopefully not.. salute to you guys

[@mittnamn2016]

No, it would not be like a hydrogen bomb. This is a chemical reaction NOT nuclear fusion.

[@cornpastiemp]

one of the hydrogen producing factories has already had an explosion, 2 trucks were cooked nothing much else, and a hydrogen charging pump exploded but still not really bad incidents

[@richarddunbar2963]

Just missed out many facts

[@FletcherHillier]

@@geek8001 It can be safe, gas was made relatively safe even though it pools on the ground. Hydrogen is the lightest element so it quickly dissipates vertically

[@Mabeylater293]

Meanwhile in my Tesla that I’m charging AT HOME.

[@samusaran7317]

But do have acesss to 60amp charging?

[@Aquamelli]

Cool... must be nice to do that from a home and not from... say... an apartment complex.

[@asteelcup859]

Oh yes, the wonderful teslas that randomly catch fire while charging and burn down your whole garage on more than one occasion. Enjoy your lithium-powered torch, I'll just spend 5 minutes to fill up a gas tank (and hopefully, a hydrogen tank in the future) and call it a day. Just for you to know, they needed 6 firetrucks to extinguish one of those tesla fires. When lithium catches fire, you can't really stop it

[@addicz2]

You forget to mention your Tesal burning home

[@FletcherHillier]

What are you going to do with your Lithium-Ion batteries after their 1000-2000 charge cycles? Let us know how your first battery replacement goes and if you're still a proud Tesla owner after that

[@deanmav3571]

Italia doesn't have Eiffel tower wtf

[@ramdas363]

That's true. The actual Eiffel Tower is in Hangzhou, China. See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianducheng#/media/File:201806_Tianducheng_Bird-eye_View.jpg

[@fat3d]

Isn't that tokyo tower?

[@sipsy2go550]

What a foolish comment. Firstly: it is JAPAN and Secondly: it is TOKYO TOWER. Go back to your nutshell and sleep well :D

[@primodernious]

so if there is anough lunatics in the world that is doing the same thing it means its safe.

[@user-jg6yw3rr8c]

Chinese company Grov hydrogen mach safer than hundai and tesla!

[@frostaegis8653]

wh- wait... you mean the stuff that... to borrow a phrase... "YOU MADE THE CAR INTO THE HINDENBURG?!" An open flame is north of 1000C! if your ignition temp is 575, who gives a damn?! is hydrogen safe? - short answer: NOPE!

[@Erowens98]

Gasoline also burn, so do lithium batteries. The difference is the hydrogen dissipates quickly so the fire is short if it occurs at all. Gasoline will burn until its extinguished because gasoline is heavier than air and pools around. Lithium batteries will burn until they're out if fuel (24-48h)and are impossible to extinguish because they self ignite when exposed to oxygen. Hydrogen is the lowest risk. Also, the Hindenburg fire was mostly diesel fuel, canvas, and the coating if the canvas. All the hydrogen was dissipated within minutes.

[@DefaultMale_]

I would like to highlight that hydrogen is NOT a viable alternative to petrol. The reason there is such a push to put hydrogen in vehicles is that hydrogen is created as a bi-product, in both the burning of methane and electrolysis. Due to its dangerous properties (if you tickle it a bit it will explode a city block), there is little demand in the industry, and those in it are trying to artificially create their own demand. Not only is hydrogen even more potentially dangerous than natural gas vehicles (despite having incidents be almost unheard of), but if we were to RENEWABLY create hydrogen through the only renewable method possible (electrolysis) by purely green energy for EVERY vehicle in, let's say the UK - which has higher ratios in this which makes my argument even stronger than if I was using the US for an example - we would need over 5 times our current capacity for green energy production. That's 5 times our CAPACITY, which would mean that all of our green energy was ONLY contributing to the production of hydrogen - as a biproduct. To give you an idea of that, the UK's production of green energy contributes to almost a third of our energy production over here (~29.5%, higher than in the US). Meaning that for this to be a viable option in just this country, it would require that all of their energy production was used for hydrogen production through electrolysis (assuming it was all green), and then two thirds more of their production capacity would have to be imported (green energy specifically) and then energy would again have to be imported for every single other use that the UK needs it for. To shine a light on how much energy this is, electrolysis would go from taking up a minute fraction of 1% of our energy consumption, to ~166%. Even by checking the official Hydrogen UK infographic on the usefulness of electrolytic hydrogen, their claims do not make sense because the fuel takes more energy to create than is released when it is used (as it is a bi-product) anyway, hydrogen rant over, I also could've enthasised a lot more how dangerous it is, though hydrogen cell fuels in vehicles (whilst not being efficient) do seem to be getting better on their second standard generation. The best part? I didn't even mention how almost impossible it is to store due to it's atomic structure being so small.

[@DefaultMale_]

its not a preconception, and nor is it "safer than other fuels." Risk assessment that is mandatory in so many contexts disproves that. If it DOES explode, which as you said is unlikely, its likely it could destroy a city block.