Passing a Knot on Rappel

[@JohanMood]

You together with JB mountain skills makes up almost all of my climbing knowledge. Love your hands on, straight to the point teaching!

[@aaronm9353]

How funny it is to see this as a top comment here of all places. I’m in the UK myself and have been binge watching videos on both channels after discovering them both one after the other for the first time recently.

[@motohelibungee]

Hi Ryan, your demonstrations are the best! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!

[@africansinclair]

Actions speak louder than words. Excellent demo, thanks.

[@szabolcskiraly6323]

I always have two Prusiks (5-6mm cord) and at least one cordelette of 6-8m/ca. 20ft. on me and I never ever use dynema/alpine draw for Prusik or anywhere I have to include a knot in the system. The melting point of dynema is just way too low to use as a friction hitch.. for me at least.😊

[@johnliungman1333]

Nice, Ryan. Very clear, and exactly the way I would teach it!

[@clintontigges798]

It seems since you already had a triple length sling you could have done a friction hitch to a munter mule on your belay loop and then lowered yourself on to the belay device after passing the knot.

[@ryantilley9063]

Ya that would be a great way to get past the knot and maybe make the whole thing faster. The only problem I can see is if you lower yourself to far so you can’t get your sling back because you can’t reach the friction hitch.

[@GizmosBushEscapes]

Good one Ryan.I think this is the 1st video of yours where I've seen you actually on rope. nice and clear to see your method. just a quick note on wind noise (i know its difficult to deal with ) i taped a small ball of cotton wool over my cameras mic hole with insulation tape. its not a great solution but it does cut the wind noise quite a bit at no cost $. cheers

[@ryantilley9063]

Thanks Gizmo, I'll have to give that a try, wind noise is definitely my biggest problem at the moment!

[@rike1175]

the oldtimey car in the background was cool

[@nathankenny7454]

You have the best content

[@wolverinekut]

Nathan Kenny exactly 👍

[@ecoturismovalle1570]

Excellent instruction. Thank you for posting. I need to do a quick release when rappeling to land on water for a movie scene....any thoughts?

[@namelastname2449]

Good stuff Ryan

[@davesmith8218]

The wind is killing your video!!!

[@Katie_Mayo]

Can't an alpine butterfly slip really easily? Would it be the ideal choice if your rope is core shot? Would you ever put a non locker in it to prevent slipping?

[@Mitzbergatc]

If yo had used a french prusik (releasable under load) instead of a Klemheist in the first instance, you wouldn't need to make a second prusik for your leg. Just something you might want to consider. It is effectively the same system, but way more efficient.

[@johngo6283]

Klemheists usually released nicely under load also. He could’ve just reached up and giving it a tug.

[@SeaBear161]

You could tie the top kleimheist to your harness with an MMO, no? That would remove the need to down ascend if it's overhanging

[@ryantilley9063]

You could do that, but the only problem is after you lower yourself down onto your set up you probably wouldn't be able to reach up and grab the kleimheist, which I guess wouldn't really matter if you just have the one spot to pass or if your friend is also rappelling down, then you could leave it there for them to use. If you are the only person rappelling down and you have the rope doubled over for a usual rappel, the klimbhiest will also make it totally impossible to pull your rope from the bottom. It's also good practice to keep your rescue materials with you incase you need them later on, but ya that could work if you just need to pass one section and you're leaving the rope in place.

[@torsather7693]

Thank you for sharing this great video! Your explanation is so clear!

[@TarikVann]

This would be easier if you either munter mule, as advised above, or have an adjustable PAS to the topmost friction hitch so you can extend til the weight it on your bottom friction hitch. That being said a VT Prussik can be released under load.

[@DavidMartinez-sf6mn]

Thanks

[@thepowerwithin2217]

Ryan thanks for the knowledge! NOOB QUESTION- Why would there be an alpine butterfly knot midline while rock climbing?

[@ryantilley9063]

The main reason to use this specific knot pass method is because your rope is damaged in some way, like rock fall. You and your partner are just trying to get off the climb before there is more rock fall but you have to rappel on a rope that has a core shot from a rock that fell on it, you would use some know to isolate the core shot and keep the rope able to support weight. You can use an overhand on a bight if that's your preference, but in this situation I personally prefer to use a butterfly because it's really good to be used to isolate a section of the rope that's being weighted. Hope this helps, and thanks for watching!

[@thepowerwithin2217]

@@ryantilley9063 Awesome. Really appreciate the explanation, Ryan! Be safe out there.

[@scheisstag]

Another application would be, if a single rope is too short and you have to tie two ropes together. Very unlikely? Yes, but it happend already. See the infamous Eiger Nordwand incident, in which a guy died meters from safety, because he was unable to pass a knot.

[@jcheroske]

Since you know you're going to have to pass a knot, why not rig up with a non-extended rappel and a VT on top? If you attach the VT to your adjustable lanyard, then you're already most of the way done when you get to the knot.

[@matthewnoland9206]

Would it not be appropriate to use a VT Prusik so you could release it under load?

[@ryantilley9063]

As long as you back up the prussic with a hard closer like the clove hitch further down the rope you can use whatever you like!

[@johng1097]

Thanks !

[@petemitchell2350]

I’ve heard people say not to use those types of slings to make prusik loops because the melting point is too low. I looked it up and it’s not a loooot lower than nylon. But do you think it’s okay to use those types of slings in this setting (that yellow prusik and the black one for the foot loop) because they aren’t sliding under tension, like a repel backup would?

[@ryantilley9063]

Ya, it’s totally fine to use these slings in this application because they’re never sliding under tension on the rope (you slide them a little but only to move them down, when your not weighting them.) You’re right that you still wouldn’t want to use them for a third hand because of the melting point issue, thanks for watching!

[@petemitchell2350]

@@ryantilley9063 thanks for the reply. That’s what I was wondering. Love your vids!

[@Gonxu90]

That footage is from Potrero chico, am I right?

[@ryantilley9063]

Yep, we filmed the video on the first pitch of Dope Ninja

[@markdavidsonjewell]

Great video.

[@BowlineDandy]

Nice nice, how’s epc now? Are you staying there for the quarantine?

[@ryantilley9063]

EPC was great, but I was down there from 2/6-23 so I got out in time to avoid the quarantine

[@wolverinekut]

if I have only one of half rope could I go down and up on it? thank you in advance for your reply

[@ryantilley9063]

Are you talking about ascending the rope or using it as a lead line? Many people will use a single half rope to lead climb on but it’s usually in terrain where it will be very unlikely for them to fall, like in a more alpine setting. You can defiantly rappel on one.

[@wolverinekut]

Ryan Tilley yes lead line

[@gsocias]

Bien!!!

[@solsoliiss.1102]

Does it matter, safety -wise, that you didn't return an end of your PAS to the belay loop? Thank you so much for the great video!

[@ryantilley9063]

Hey man, the only thing that clipping the end of the rappel tether into your belay loop does is make your rappel tether redundant. While that can be important it's not super critical, and depending on the material that you are using it wouldn't do anything- like in this case with the rappel extension that I'm using isn't redundant because I have the ATC clipped into one loop. I mainly clipped that strand to my gear loop to get it out of the way.

[@bestbuilder1st]

@@ryantilley9063 "only thing that clipping the end of the rappel tether......" making a statement like that seems like you might be covering for a bad practice, just saying. Especially in an instructional video where mostly Noobs are the viewers. I think even in one or two of your other videos You have even said it is "just good practice"- to always clip back to the belay loop.... so that when you are tired or other, you don't make the same mistake clipping something important to a gear loop.. YMMV

[@Nikky____27]

TOUGH TAKIN LE KA THIAN👍

[@gerpsh]

Potrero Chicoooooooo

[@johngo6283]

Overall this is showing a good technique, but if you use a little know how it’s very rare you should ever have to do it. If you’re doing a double rope rappel, and you know there is a knot in one strand, you don’t need to deal with passing it. Step one, fix the good strand of the rope to the anchor, and have the first person rap on that single strand. Step 2, first person down ties the end of the rope to themselves, or to the next anchor, or to a tree on the ground, or something similar. This is also called a counter balanced rappel. Then the last person raps on the single strand. When they are down, you pull in the side with the knot. Everybody down, fast, smooth, easy, no need to pass the knot. If for some reason you do choose to do it the way that’s shown in the video, only the last person down needs to do this kind of shenanigan. Everybody else can go down with one side of the rope secured to the anchor and use one strand.

[@xaviergorloo8050]

Any way to rephrase step 2 because it makes no sense to me

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

Why not just do the single rope rappel with a carabiner block on the side with damaged rope?

[@johngo6283]

@@jeffreyschmidt3997 that can work, but it comes with its own set of issues.

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

@@johngo6283 thanks for the quick reply. I haven't had any issues with this but probably lack the experience you do. What kind of trouble have you had or heard of? Appreciate you sharing

[@johngo6283]

@@jeffreyschmidt3997 The carabiner can get banged up pulling it down the rock. The carabiner can get stuck in a crack or hung up on bushes. If The master point is another carabiner, the one you add may not be big enough to be an effective block. Most of the time it works pretty well, but I like everything in claiming there’s some subjectivity involved with choosing the best technique for a given situation.

[@Ginsailo]

👍🏽👍🏽

[@DanniBee]

Dope Ninja?

[@pscllc4604]

COULDNT HEAR A WORD YOU SAID