QnA: Visions of heaven? What do Lutherans think of Apologetics? Are the Jews God's chosen people?

[@meadowgeorge6657]

Jordan Cooper! Oh yes, I am a new Lutheran and have been taking in as much teaching as I possibly can on Lutheran Christianity! I started with you, Pastor Bryan , then ran into Jordan Cooper on KZbin as well, and love listening to him, but wow, it’s so over my head! Not insinuating that you are simple!😅 it’s because of one of your Q&A or maybe you would call it an interview with another Lutheran Pastor that prompted me to buy the book of Concord and read the whole thing. It was after that that I joined a WELS Lutheran church in our area! So thank you for your work!

[@SueJo2287]

Thank you both for this Q&A session. Your answers to all 3 were very helpful to me. Will be going to the links in the description for further study.

[@zeldakasumi]

Thank you for this Q&A session. I found it very helpful. The apparitions, visions, personal revelations section also reminded me of Galatians 1:8-9. "8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."

[@SeanusAurelius]

That's the thing that makes me push back a bit. If a private revelation results in someone believing the Gospel, how can they refuse to talk about it? As long as it's resulting in the propagation of the Gospel - as opposed to weird doctrines about heaven or angels or whatever - then surely it is *not* forbidden to share it, quite the reverse!

[@EcclesiaInvicta]

Zi0nism is not compatible with Lutheranism, that belief along with dispensationalism has wrought destruction to so many evangelical Churches. I left Evangelicalism for Lutheranism! Glory to God! One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church = True Israel! ✝️

[@texasboy2619]

Same here man I was a dispensationalist and now I am a Augsburg Catholic. Long live Christ the King. The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of the Augsburg Confession.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

@@texasboy2619 Amen!

[@doriesse824]

@user-hh8hw2wj9b Can you back that up with scripture so I can see how you came to that conclusion?

[@rocketmanshawn]

​​@@doriesse824Hebrews 11 & 12, Ephesians 2:15 & 5:27, Revelation 21. Heavenly Jerusalem (the Church) > earthly Jerusalem

[@srice6231]

I find it interesting that some of the major Reformed teachers are very positive and quote Luther but so many Lutherans say really insulting things about Calvin and people in the Reformed tradition. When I first became Lutheran after being Reformed I almost left because of how insulting some Lutherans are towards Calvin (and often are wrong about his teachings) and the Reformed. I now don't believe all Calvin said but I think we should appreciate the similarities and what he said that is true. I like what you said about Calvin and what Pastor Packer said about building bridges. We should argue the facts with Scripture and not just attack our fellow Christians.

[@run4cmt]

Calvin did much damage with his rejection of the real presence of Jesus in the sacraments.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

As a Lutheran, I believe that he was a Brilliant guy, although I don’t I agree with much of what he teaches, but still been used by God in a lot of ways, I agree that we shouldn’t ever used vitriol against other Christians with differing beliefs, but it is also important to stand on our own convictions, and correct errors. Peace ✝️🕊

[@srice6231]

@@ministeriosemmanuel638 I agree with you. Respectful debate is needed.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

@@srice6231 I’m sorry if you got turned off by the attitude of some Lutherans towards Calvinists, it just comes from our corrupted nature and the noetic effects of sins, and thats why we needed Christ! I too came out from Calvinism found the beauty of the Lutheran tradition and the fullness of the Gosepl in it. We need to remain unwavering in out commitment to our confessions, because it is the truth! But remain loving, humble and forgiving. Love and Truth goes together just as the Scripture teaches. God bless brother! ✝️

[@darylrahfeldt2162]

I agree that we should not attack each other personally, but rather point out why what we believe is biblical. The animosity of Lutherans toward Calvinists has a long history. In Germany, the Calvinists infiltrated Lutheran congregations and tried to make them Calvinists. The Prussian Union was a problem, also, when the ruler of Prussia forced the Calvinists and Lutherans to share the Lord's Supper, which many Lutheran in good conscience could not do. This resulted in many Lutherans coming to the U. S. in the early 1800's

[@RealityConcurrence]

Please pass on to Evan that his listeners are still praying for him and his family. I listen to table talk while I mow and you’d never suspect that 600 or so episodes would still feel like not enough of the two of you

[@outnabout57]

Awesome news. Thanks Pastors. This answered a conversation we were having today with the professor. Much more to listen for as you keep hitting the ball out of the park with the word and the saving grace of Jesus.

[@Ben_Hedlund]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who still listens to the TTR backlog. What platform do you listen on?

[@darylrahfeldt2162]

Technically speaking, the Jews do not believe in the same God Christians believe in.

[@mikaelrosing]

yes in a sense they have a wrong idea of God, and because of the talmud even worse.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

@@mikaelrosing “Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:23)

[@Jaspermoises1835]

Unbelievably WRONG! May God forgive you.

[@darylrahfeldt2162]

@@mpkropf5062 They do not believe in the triune God. They do not believe Jesus is God. They do not accept the New Testament revelation about God.

[@darylrahfeldt2162]

@@mpkropf5062 As Christians we believe that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God would not be Father without the Son. The Jews believe that God is a unity, not a Trinity. That was my point. Their God is not the Christian God. We confess the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed.

[@michaelsternemann2531]

Great discussion. Thanks. As a long time Lutheran, formerly 30 year catholic, I learned so much about the catholic faith.

[@erinmahaffy6504]

Why, yes, of all the videos I could have watched...this indeed WAS very edifying! I lean towards a philosophical personality and have found joy in studying Lutheran Theology and Christian Apolgetics. I really appreciated today's conversation. Thank you, pastors!

[@erinmahaffy6504]

What a great explanation of Islam and Judaism. I've been looking for a better way of describing those two religions to my 10 year old. Thanks guys!

[@sidneyloggins2487]

It is the same way we check Scripture - the Word of God interprets itself. Any vision must agree with what has come before.

[@hofii2]

@DrJordanBCooper (21:00)! He's definitely the intellectual side to the pastoral face of the coin that @PastorBryanWolfmueller takes.

[@Ian-nm2pg]

I am yet to hear a modern day heavenly visit that compares to the biblical experience Isaiah condemned himself when he sees the throne of God Paul says the throne of God is a unapproachable light John the guy who spent 3 years with Christ falls down like a dead man when he sees the lamb of God Theses guys are all struck by the holiness of God Modern experiences are all me me me

[@frankielee5623]

You have not heard of any genuine revelations from God because you have been a dull n meaningless believer.God is always giving us revelations.We are teachers of the Word.Fully aware of another great teacher active in all Christians life,the Lord.

[@Steadfast-Lutheran]

Thanks pastors!

[@tbird1968]

First of all, I’d like to say that I am a big fan of your channel, loved the martyrs faith in a faithless world book, and probably 95% of what I hear you say, preach, teach, and confess. However, just because a revelation is “not needed” in your opinion, if and when it is from God, apparently HE believes it’s necessary for that person at that time -May I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps God knows more than we, or Paul or even Martin Luther? I have been a LCMS Lutheran my whole life, and my brother-in-law had a beautiful experience when he “bled out“ due to varies in his throat rupturing when no one else was at home. He was the only person according to the head of the liver transplant department at Barnes Hospital in St. Louis, Missouri , who had ever survived this happening. This vision/revelation/experience did not contradict scripture in any way shape or form, and it has caused a peace and a dependence on God in my brother-in-law that I had never seen him in the prior 30 years that he was married to my sister. I am always suspicious of such revelations, especially when they’re turned into books that are sold for a profit, but my brother-in-law has no reason to lie about this and quite frankly, I find what he experienced to be very comforting to me as well. He does not make it public to everyone he meets, but to say that these revelations don’t happen or can’t help solidify one’s faith in Christ and his word is a very narrow view of how God can act to help us when we need it. I am aware that the primary means of grace are Word & Sacrament -but to imply that these are the ONLY way that God can reveal Himself is preposterous. WE can’t put limits on God’s almighty power, nor should we try.

[@scottmiller6958]

The average Evangelical would be shocked to hear what the average Jew thinks about Christians and Christianity.

[@SeanusAurelius]

Agreed, I certainly was when I found out. But OTOH, the average nominally Christian antisemite would be shocked when they read Romans 11 and find out that you still aren't allowed to despise them.

[@pipsheppard6747]

Things that Calvin got that agree with Luther, he got from the same place as Luther: the Scriptures. He didn't copy Luther. Calvin had some very fine things to say about Luther. Why can't Luther's heirs do the same? Quit cracking on your brothers in Christ! Thanks. (By the way, I am an Anglican, and I have to say the same kind of thing to my Anglican brethren.)

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

As if Calvinists don’t do the same thing to Arminians

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@ministeriosemmanuel638af if it doesn't work the other way 😅

[@SeanusAurelius]

@@ministeriosemmanuel638 2 sins don't make a non-sin.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

@@SeanusAurelius I only pointed out Calvinist Hypocrisy

[@DanteInfernski22]

I’ve never understood why this is so hard for you mainline folks. Dispos take this further than they should but the plain reading of Paul is that there still is a plan for ethnic Israel and that his promises to Abraham were never transferred to gentiles, but gentiles get to share in the benefits. Moreover, you misquote Paul in this video. I hope you did it accidentally and not on purpose because he does not say the natural branch was cut off he says some were: “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Heed the warning

[@BzyB63]

If you do share a vision with others, most of them will call you crazy. Even people you trust. So be very careful who you share that with.

[@SeanusAurelius]

I'm no dispensationalist but you don't need to strawman them. They aren't wrong when they point out that Romans 11 (and Zecariah) speak of God not having abandoned national Israel forever. Nor that Jesus did actually tell his disciples to look for the signs of the times.

[@writerinblack9302]

Columbo method just sounds like Socratic questioning.

[@brianwest6341]

Some things may be necessary. Seeing one’s relatives for instance doesn’t deny scripture but may be a comfort for the fear during that moment. Maybe not necessary for everyone else but maybe given by God for the dying person’s comfort. How then is necessary defined?

[@drb8786]

I agree Pastor with what Congress passed is definitely going to be a big problem for the church. If there’s one thing, I am truly worried about in the Lutheran world is that we are so easily distracted with government we point to Romans 13 and we just shrugged. I highly recommend you do a sermon on Romans 13 teaching people that we are only to obey big government, when they do not contradict the Lord Jesus Christ. And if they plan on taking the new Testament away from us, get ready to protest get ready to disobey..

[@mccalltrader]

I’ve heard many stories of Christ appearing in visions and dreams all across the Arab/Muslim world to the young there.

[@TheodenEdnewDoesDnD]

I need some help understanding 1 Corinthians 9 where it talks about being all things to all people. Does this apply to me in the sense that, I should abandon my freedom to do things around Christians that would offend Christians? I mean specifically in the case of something someone might incorrectly assume to be unchristian behavior. For instance, I had my reputation tarnished in a church for being an open-carry layperson. It was completely legal and the church authorities saw nothing wrong with it, but I was attacked with Romans 14 like a cudgel for doing so. This is hard for me to find peace with, I've stopped bringing my sidearm with me because of it and haven't understood what the right thing to do might be.

[@mt-on4lt]

If you listen to Montgomery's Sensible Christianity, he would say that the task of apologetics is to remove any excuse or objection to someone having to face the fundamental message of the cross, namely that you can't save yourself, but Christ has done it for you. He would say that there is a point, like when someone looks at the evidence for the Resurrection and says they don't care, where one is no longer in the realm of apologetics, but in the realm of preaching.

[@michaelsternemann2531]

Sorry wrong video. But comment holds true.

[@br.m]

Should Christians argue? Is that being quarrelsome? Can I suggest that Christianity is an invitation out of the argument? Is there anything in scripture for or against that suggestion? Isn't the "church" a called out assembly? I would like to think of apologetics as a call. While everyone is out arguing and debating.. Apologetics could compel people to come to the great banquet. That Cliffe character, he is far too quarrelsome. He goes out there like a circus act, setting up a wrestling ring and challenging all the kids to come try and beat him up. He would be better off with a red nose and making balloon animals. The first question and response brought to mind the story of Luther nearly being struck by lightning. It's always mentioned in documentaries. Do you have religious tourism to the shrine and kiss the spot that the lightning struck? Can a Lutheran go kiss the nail hole on the holy door of the 95 thesis?

[@katybeadle684]

It seems like this comment is not seeing the word argument as the assertion being made to discuss for or against and why. Argument the word need not only be seen as a negative. Also I would posit that Luther's being frightened for his life and praying to a Saint making a vow in that moment was pointing to superstitions of the time and is not held up as something to aspire to but an event that shows that he was just as much a forgiven sinner as anyone else. He learned in time a better understanding.

[@br.m]

@@katybeadle684 Sure but is that is your argument then why don't we all say we are the Catholic church? Why do non-Roman Catholics see the word "catholic" as negative? Catholic is a positive word. We could argue about this, if you think it is debatable... But I would rather head to the banquet.. I write this because if I google "argument" then the definitions tend to include words like "quarrelsome". I was just making a point. Doesn't the Bible say that Christians should avoid certain situations and certain types of people? It is my understanding that there are some people who should be marked and avoided. Are those people at the debate with their arguments?

[@williammozy9491]

"Only dumb people need religion," was my big justification back when I was lost. Took me a long time to realize it was the very wisdom i worshiped that lead me to God, and i would say apologetics played a big part in that. They really helped me understand and look on the Word of God as more than just a manmade work. Also, Cliffe Knechtle was one of the people whose apologetics really started to turn my opinion. Alot of respect for him.

[@frankielee5623]

Paul should be bold n states it properly,it was himself who saw 3rd heaven.

[@danriser4117]

Did Pastor Packer warn the swifties about idolatry. There is no fear of the Lord. A man of the cloth gives warning and gets flack. 2Tmothy3 and 4...... no wonder the nation is in the shape its in....

[@andrewpacker2592]

I did indeed warn them of idolatry.

[@run4cmt]

Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, may those who love her prosper. I think we should have a heart for the Jewish people because our Savior was a Jew.

[@dorinamary7863]

Wasn't Jesus from the bloodline of Jacob-Israel? In that case, he could not have been a Jew. He would've had to be from Esau's bloodline. Jesus was an Israelite, descended from Jacob and Levi. The Jews, who descend from Esau, are not Israelites, nor are they of any of the 12 Tribes of Israel, and they say so themselves in their private publications which have become public. "The Jews started to call themselves Hebrews and Israelites in 1860." Encyclopedia Judaica 1971 "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew', or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." Encyclopedia Judaica 1980, Page 3 "Esau-Edom is modern Jewry." Encyclopedia Judaica 1925, Volume 5, Page 41 If they're of Esau, they can't be of Jacob. Also see: "Who Is Esau-Edom?" by Charles A. Weisman

[@SeanusAurelius]

@@dorinamary7863 St Paul identifies himself as a Jew and of the tribe of Benjamin, and Jesus identifies salvation as having come from the Jews. Put down the other books and pick up the four gospels, friend.

[@dorinamary7863]

@@SeanusAurelius Learn the original meaning of the words "Jew" and "Gentile". They don't mean what you think they do, and are the two most unfortunate and misunderstood words in the entire Bible. Those calling themselves Jews today have published their own writings saying they did not begin to call themselves Hebrews or Israelites until 1860. They also admit they are Esau-Edom. It's in their own Encyclopedia Judaica. So please pick up other books and educate yourself. The pharisees told Jesus they had never been in exile, which means they weren't taken captive in Egypt, Babylon or Assyria. But the true Israelites were slaves in those countries.

[@dorinamary7863]

@@SeanusAurelius Plus, you added to the Word. Paul never states he was a Jew.

[@darylrahfeldt2162]

There were those church fathers who referred to the Christians as a "third race." There were Jews, there were Gentiles, and then there were Christians.

[@Boohpoop]

Ooh man

[@bigD9051]

a broken clock is right twice a day

[@bigniftydude]

Sorry, this is lacking too much context to make sense.

[@Nothing2CHere4U]

It's pretty simple. The Israelites were Chosen. Israel was a Nation of people, not a geographical location. The Israelites were taken from Judea into captivity in Egypt and also essentially wiped out by Rome. If there are any Chosen left, they are few and far between (or closely collected and keeping it hidden). Certainly NOT the people known today as jews.

[@willy9204]

Synagogue of Satan

[@doriesse824]

When you say the Israelites were essentially wiped out by Rome, are you speaking of the destruction of 70AD?

[@Nothing2CHere4U]

@@doriesse824 Look into Flanders (Belgium)

[@doriesse824]

@@Nothing2CHere4U Thanks, but need more information. I'm just finding maps and travel guides, etc.

[@Jaspermoises1835]

Thanks for this. I now know I can’t be Lutheran.