Patch 4.1 Sieges Changes - Are They Any Good? - Total War Warhammer 3 - Siege Rework No 3

So we had new changes to sieges in update 4.1 and I actually like them? Surprising I know but it does seem like some decent fixes came in to make sieges less soul sucking let's discuss!
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - 00:07:33 - The Changes
07:33 - My Thoughts
Patch 4.1 Sieges Changes - Are They Any Good? - Total War Warhammer 3 - Siege Rework No 3
#news #totalwar #warhammer3
Want to support the channel or find us on social media? Check out the links below:
‣ Consider supporting us on Patreon:
/ thegreatbookofgrudges
Special thanks to our Patrons:
Fabi, faithlessberserker, Gibraltar LUSC, Ryan Bertsche, Mike7676, Monkeyman, VIKRAM SRINIVASAN, TheSaltyCanadian, Valk, Rowan, Naldor, BearlyTactical
Want to support the channel while also getting stuff for your hobby needs? Check out our affliate ELEMENT GAMES!
Get 15-25% off Warhammer and other brands now!
‣ Use the code below for double gems which will eventually bag you some free stuff!
THE3476
‣ Element Games - Homepage
elementgames.co.uk/?d=10333
‣ Element Games - Warhammer products
elementgames.co.uk/warhammer?...
Check out our social media links below:
‣ Discord: / discord
‣ FB: / the-great-book-of-grud...
‣ Instagram: TheGreatBookofGrudges
‣ Instagram: nathanthegreatbook
‣ Twitter: @TGrudges
Channel art by MaxOnMars:
sites.google.com/view/maxonmars
/ max.on.mars
Music used on current videos:
Bensound's music licensed under the Creative Commons License
Bensound.com
Thanks again for stopping by!

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

At first when reading the patch notes I didn't like what I saw however playing with it made me realize that in practice these are good changes. Again important as to why I didn't cover the patch note yesterday. It doesn't solve all the problems but it deffo fixes some major issues.

[@ultimategamer876]

Any progress is good progress at this point

[@omgraggy5358]

Hey man maybe you should rename the video? Calling it a rework is honstly disgenius. This patch is not a rework. It is a balance patch.

[@DerSteppenwolf1979]

AI is even worse after this patch. No point in changing things if the AI cant handle it.

[@daithomas1430]

Have you seen what happens if you've captured the main victory point and the AI then captured the key building? Does it stop the points adding up or makes it so the AI can't capture the main point?

[@kolpere1625]

what about adding the ability to garrison turrets from walls? Maybe giving ranged units makes the turret attack faster, or let that unit to shoot safely while the defenders are in position protecting the wall. and once you have conquered the turret the garrisoned unit is forced to go out.

[@Rocksteadyz1]

Idea for sieges in capitol provinces, for every + 10 public order you have , a militia mob spawns in to help with the siege defence. its there home too, and would help garrissons

[@willichtenstein7071]

Taking a page out of Skavenslayer.

[@bibby659]

I also use mods that make it so recruitment buildings spawn in at least a single unit from that building... why a building where you recruit tanks or artillery won't have or send one to help defend never made sense to me and my friend. (Also, training heroes and such)

[@13emstr]

And fror every -10, a militia army would spawn in and help the enemy.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

That would make sense for order factions. But I don't see why a Skaven or a Chaos worshipper wouldn't just force you into fighting wether you like it or not

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@skywillfindyou I guess that makes sense

[@j-dubb614]

Dear CA, Get rid of butt ladders. You should need to build ladders like any other siege equipment and it should only be a few ladders not every infantry unit should be able to pull a ladder out of their butts.

[@isometimesplaytw]

I would like for certain units to just be able to climb walls instead. I have never been a huge fan of watching Crypt ghouls or Banshees floating up ladders or seeing Cylostra T-pose her way to the top of a wall.

[@Kyle496]

In a way I get why ladders aren't made to take time to build, it's stupid easy to have a broken down ladder (or four) carried across a 100 person unit. The prep time for a ladder isn't a month or even a week, it's just a ladder. On the gameplay side it does trivialize sieges for non monster races and makes defense feel completely worthless. It's just a useless barrier when you're better off fortifying a smaller or more compact capture point where a smaller force can triumph over a larger one. All throughout the past it's been known a smaller defending force can beat a larger attacking one (within reason ofc) and that feels to almost never be the case in TW:WH unless the smaller force has drastically better units.

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@Kyle496 Its not so stupid easy to stack multiple pieces of a broken down ladder together to the point that you have a 20m long ladder that is stable enough to be used under battle conditions. If those are really the ladders they use, then 20% of units climbing them should fall off and die in the process.

[@MaMastoast]

Imo its not so much the construction of the ladders thats important, its the need to physically move the ladders to the walls and as the defender have the ability to stop those ladders from arriving at your walls.

[@MasterChief0522]

What is everyone's obsession with ladders? Unless you completely outnumber the enemy, ladders are mostly useless. If there are any enemies that can get on the wall before you, your units just get picked off as they climb over the top of the wall. And do you really want to take more time sieging settlements so that you can burn turns building ladders? Sieges are slow enough and boring as hell already.

[@amoney1421]

One thing that they really need to change is enemy units running to retreat points in YOUR settlement. Its really obnoxious when theres a fight at a gate house, a unit routs and runs through your spears or what have you at the gates and then rallies after they're behind all your units and starts capping points behind your lines. Its immersion breaking, its cheesy, and its really stupid.

[@urahi830]

or at the very least remove all melee defense from routing units, it's fucking ridiculous that them routing is a more efficient way of getting to your city center than actually fighting

[@Balorian]

Now they just need to remove pocket ladders, so walls actually have value in a sieges.

[@serkelet2]

They still have value. Climbing a ladder instaexhausts your troops, giving a massive advantage to the defending troops. However, I agree pocket ladders should go.

[@davidbanks6658]

Is there a mod for that? Seems like it's an obvious thing but I have not seen one.

[@tacul9333]

@@davidbanks6658 Apparently, the game code does not allow for removal of ladders because the code for being able to move onto a wall is tied to the code for using ladders. You could remove ladders, but that would mean that no units could move onto walls.

[@Debilinside]

@@tacul9333 Yes, this is true, but this is only a limitation from the modding perspective. They could overhaul the code and separate the 2 parameters. Also ass ladders shouldnt be a thing, they should have learned from WH2 it completely destroy sieges...

[@Debilinside]

@@serkelet2 Not really. The problem is the AI will only attack if they have an advantage, otherwise they will just starve you out. This most likely also means numerical advantage.... So you simply dont have enough troops to hold the walls everywhere forcing you to completely abandon the walls and hold chokepoints where hopefully your ranged units and towers can give you the edge. Also exhaustion is not really meaningful when majority of your garrison is very low grade and/or without AP..

[@chrisedrington7945]

I still maintain that they should just increase the supply we start with substantially and make all deployables happen pre-battle. Then you could scale factions up or down in terms of their defensive capabilites. You could give the Empire and Kislev extra supplies in their cities to help them survive the horrors of the old world

[@steelblood4116]

The number 1 change that needs to be done to sieges, and for me personally the game, is to remove the magic ladders units have that lets them climb anywhere. Sadly, it's not even possible to mod them out.

[@EvolutionWar]

And remove magic towers constructed in seconds, making sieges a fcking joke. I guess I am just crazy wanting some realism to strategic and tactically preparing as a defender and as an attacker preparing siege equipment.

[@Dr.AvenVon]

@@EvolutionWar if you want realism, stop playing total warhammer and play the historical total wars

[@EvolutionWar]

@@Dr.AvenVon The classic dum b as s response of telling someone they should play other games, when they are suggesting improvements to one specific game. Boring and 0 thought processes involved. Some times I wish I were as thoughtless as you. You should also walk around telling people to just breathe different air than you while you are at it, holy d um b f u ck.

[@MaMastoast]

@@Dr.AvenVon Realism is prolly not the right word.. rather believability. Magic is entirely believable in the warhammer universe, but there is nothing in the game that justifies the existene of ass ladders... They are just there. Although, Itd say having walls actually be real barriers in terms of gameplay is far more important than the believability of it.

[@volomas_7938]

I wish we went back to Attila sieges - smaller, full surround maps with unbreakable walls (except from artillery) and no butt-ladders

[@stephenjenkins7971]

No such thing as "unbreakable walls" in a fantasy setting. There are dragons and giants around; and flat out powerful characters.

[@lalaninja006]

suppose to help the AI smaller would work... but with magic and the actual lore it would not really be ideal

[@skulduggeryx3612]

They need to remove the butt ladders then sieges should be fine.

[@puljeeters1270]

Idd!

[@kantez2872]

Yes. hey should bring back ladders carried by soldiers. 1 turn to build ladders for 2 units.

[@superhumantrueman]

@@kantez2872 The problem with that is they have an awful lot of units to animate carrying and deploying ladders. This isn't like Rome ect where everyone had a human frame to start with.

[@Superelksch]

exactly, remove the single most annoying thing in sieges, the stupid ability of every unit to mitigate the main defence against sieges, allow certain specialists to climb walls (spider units etc,) pass through walls (ghosts etc.) or destroy walls (warp grinders, Miners, Monsters, artillery) and the rest of the units either get siege equipment or they cant siege, simple in universe realism

[@MrAdamArce]

It would be nice if there were specific units with wall climbing abilities, while all other infantry would need towers or to go through a gate. That could even be a balancing thing for some factions by varying up access to that unit type and/or ability

[@questbrad9820]

I’m not going knock a guy for trying to stay positive about his livelihood. That said the siege changes only reinforce the fact CA refuses to acknowledge the catastrophic failure of them.

[@FujimoraPantsu2]

For real all they need to do is roll back to WH2 sieges. They weren't near as bad as the crap they are shoveling now.

[@MaMastoast]

@@FujimoraPantsu2 Wh2 sieges were pretty damn bad imo.. Buut, they were atleast simple manageable.. Wh3 sieges are just plain annoying

[@mephisto279]

I miss catapults and other artillery mounted on the walls... But as for the towers, if the range is going to be nerfed like this, they need to be cheaper. Also, it would be nice if we could get melee troops on the wall and the second row have archers point the right way, then we wouldnt have to worry so much about the enemy making up the ladders.

[@linussyren9221]

They should either make ladders a sige equipment or makes them climber slower. I like a mod that makes them climb slower and it really helps out when defending. Currently it feels very zerg rushy. It would also help when ordering a large group of units through a open gate where they instead spread out and climb the wall because apparently that is faster than walking through the WIDE OPEN GATE!

[@Vikingskog]

In regards to sieges i wish there were a section of inner walls you could fall back to. You do have some fallback options in WH3 compared to WH2 and 1, but actual walls with a gate would be best. I remember the Third age mod for medieval 2 had this on some maps, it made it much more interesting to defend. Dont think that will ever happen in WH3 though, probably requires too much work with the AI. Another thing is being able to use your artillery, its so silly that you might have tons of cannons standing on the ground, that are near useless. You should be able to put them on the walls, heck even if they just made it so you have to place them before the fight starts and that they cant be moved, it would be better than what it is now. Doesnt seem like something that would be super difficult to implement. Third thing i would wish for is more race differences, it should be more difficult besieging a dwarf fortress than a orc or brettonian one. This could be done by giving them stronger walls, gates and towers. Some way to slow down people climbing the walls, could be as simple as a "throw stones/oil" target skill with a cooldown which would cause the climbers to climb slower and take damage.

[@movingtarget12321]

Hoping they fix pathing in siege battles a bit as well. This patch definitely helped make them less of a pain from both sides, but certain settlements are still so difficult to actually command in. Maybe the tower changes will at least take the pressure off of the attackers trying to squeeze through the doors and climb the hills.

[@andreir1183]

the more this game progresses the more they remove all the shitty decision they made when they lunched wh3. still too annoyed with those towers and just seeing them is an eyesore that doesn't blend in with the city (wood towers for everyone). just f***ing remove them...

[@Lutz2]

Some good changes, I still prefer that these build able Towers would be gone for good. I really hate them ever since the release of Warhammer 3. They should remove butt ladders next and that Infantry cannot attack Gates, then Siege Towers and Siege Rams would have some purpose to build.

[@smaplessmap5355]

Well good to see progress but no need to be enthusiastic. Still years behind, still no end game motivatio, still no mp improvements! This is not even the standard we can expect! But, yes im glad to see this move!

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

if the towers are 1 build only, and their range is getting nerfed, they need their damage buffed back up from the hyper nerfed state they were clobbered down to. It was already semi pointless, now with 1 build and low range, they might as well not exist.

[@via_negativa6183]

Nah, hate the tower mechanic completely just feels like a mobile gane, it would be different if you could actually choose the deploy points

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

@@via_negativa6183 it DID feel like a mobile game, now no.

[@HariboJunkie4125]

They should bring back some kind of boiling Oil mechanic like they used to have on gates, where attacking units would be burned to a crisp in regular intervals when standing beneath them.

[@florinsimigiu6109]

Say it with me "No ass Ladders!!!"

[@SereglothIV]

All the changes to the sieges are amazing. Non-rebuildable towers with reduced range, barricades actually blocking both parallel streets, cool. But I don't see the reason of increasing wall health. What's the point, if everyone has butt ladders and can just hop over the wall anyway? I think it's the best patch since Immortal Empires but butt ladders still have to go!

[@chaossausage3940]

Giving credit where it’s due, this is a massive step in the right direction.

[@cookiecola5852]

Thats kinda like giving a guy a pat on the head after he bombed the entire kitchen when he actually was paid to renovate it.

[@Boomer_Slayer]

Sure, give credit to a company making the most minimal effort to protect its golden goose. The patch is still late, the dlc is delayed. Many, many issues remain in the base game and implementation of immortal empires with its squashed map and lack of mid to late game variety and challenge.

[@etienne8110]

It would be incredible if they managed to make it worse. When you.start from the bottom, you can only go up... But kuddos to them for not botching everything😅

[@TheMissing8]

They need to remove ass ladders. That's the only way forward.

[@adriendoste6269]

Glad to see they finally found a way to improve sieges after all this time, some of the Siege Rework mods might not be so 100% necessary anymore lol Thanks for the video !

[@mewple]

I think they need to remove ass ladders from being free and instead make them a cheap cost item you build for sieging. Then make it so that every army has a limited amount of resources for sieging on the first turn without having to wait a turn to build them. That way you can build a siege tower and or a couple of ladders and not every unit will have a ladder. It will force you to plan around your resources and actually give way to more thematic and cinematic sieges. Certain units could even give more starting resources than others to give them more value for sieging (like warpgrinders, artillery teams, labourers and slave units, etc). Its pretty lame that Ive personally never used towers or the battering rams because why waste time sieging when you can use ass ladders and large units/artillery to blast gates and walls.

[@iDontSpeakRussian_]

This update should be Called "Fat and Furious: Ogrio Drift"

[@digifan02]

Limit ladders to further incentivize using the gates and add enough room on the walls to post forward facing melee infantry behind the archers and we’re golden

[@AThousandSons1]

By sigmar i hope this isnt the "final siege tweak". They need to do a lot more still, sieges are still terrible on a fundamental level and walls are mediocre at best

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Nah I imagine this is a first place. Tbh it's better than it was I'm avtusly enjoying playing Beastmen right now

[@AThousandSons1]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges may morrslieb shine brightly on your path of ruin, great gor of grudges

[@followernumber1]

Cut, paste, Rome II siege mechanics, end of story. Also, making possible to increase garrison xp out of combat is a must. Finally, include FIGHTING RETREAT in this and ALL past Total War games.

[@zeroinfinity9189]

I’m not sure why the tower range got nerfed since it can no longer be rebuild. Towers were the actual threat because of their long range it was just broken because it can be rebuild constantly but now it’s just doesn’t seem threatening anymore.

[@jacobmccarty8070]

I don’t expect them to remove the butt ladders after all this time, but I feel slowing the climb effect and maybe adding a random attrition on climb to units that might kill them although I could live without that. Other than that a small buff to units on the wall like a small MD/MA bonus to show the advantage. One or the other could be done if both are seen as too strong. This would make it to where you might use the siege towers instead of ladders so you don’t drip in your army also. The second thing I’d like to see is new art for each races tower and more map types. Then just add a few things for supplies like ammunition restock, small unit heals and some other things possibly summons or something close. Finally they should have the AI attack the city of the player after no more than a couple turns. Maybe make the AI do a roll on how many turns it waits when it lays siege before it just attacks.

[@marcpaulus6291]

In a game were every unit has a butt ladder, flying units etc, wall health is not going to chance anything. Walls have no defence value. Remove Butt Ladders and have the walls also have an magic skywall that prevents flying units to go over it. THEN and only then will higher wall life change anything.

[@Krelian89]

That magic wall could be an upgrade or maybe a tower u build that can be destroyed by ground forces, man that would be awesome

[@JakeBaldwin1]

​@@Krelian89 I think some kind of WWII esque firing pit/ battery would work better, like a mortar battery with canister shot for the empire.

[@MaMastoast]

Indeed... "oh wuaw this easily scaleable speed bump now has more health"... Its a 20 meter wall for gods sake, give it some actual value and removing those damn magical ladders.

[@VainEldritch]

Yeah well - I hate the whole "pop-up" towers and barricades siege system. For me, this changes nothing and WH3 sieges are still beyond shite. I'll still be using a mod to remove 90% of them. Honestly I went form spending 3k + hours in Wh2 to less than 500 in WH3 and have no intention of playing any time soon.

[@jaredcullum117]

The lower range for buildable towers might actually be more useful, since they won't be shooting at enemies miles away when you've got some right next to it.

[@maesde]

Changes we still need: Gates not being able to be hit by anything smaller than an ogre Units on walls must receive a good missile resistance buff to ensure they have an advantage in ranged duels butt ladders must dissappear

[@AshisME101]

I'm with you on the idea of giving credit where credit is due, the siege rework, while minor, is still good. I appreciate that they're still putting in some effort, and it gives me a glimmer of hope for ToD. I would like to see them address the issue with magic pocket ladders, and improve garrisons to give defenses a chance to actually hold walls. Also, I can't remember if siege defense improvement buildings buff ammo or not, but with the length of time at walls being drawn out, the ability to shoot for longer also goes up and I feel like it should be buffed to match, which would have a realism side as well considering a garrison would have ammunition stores in a city for defense.

[@Siven80]

Interesting changes. I feel the idea of butt ladders arent a major problem. In reality they arent hard to make, so makes sense that units can have them automatically. It shouldnt take several turns to make ladders. I feel the better way to balance these is to slow the climb speed, increase wall towers firing arc to 180 degrees so they can fire to the sides and maybe have a - melee defense penalty for x secs after climbing (if this doesnt exists already). This would then make the siege towers more appealing to build and use. Then you could have some thematic units have increased climb speed, no debuff etc.

[@MaMastoast]

Its not about the consturction time imo.. its it being impossible to take away the ability to scale the walls. When ladders are siege equipment that has to be moved to the walls, those ladders can be stopped from reaching said walls. Whne every unit magially has a ladder in their back pocket and move at full speed towards the walls, the walls become pointless.. Imo walls need to be actual real barriers preventing the enemy from getting in, unless they actively do something to get around that problem.

[@SiodogRehane]

So DLC+patch this xmas o we going elsewhere this year? What do you think?

[@inductivegrunt94]

Yeah, this is good. No more cheesing sieges with stalk units on offense and no tower spam on defense. Just remove the magic ladders and it'll be quite possibly the best siege system in recent Total War games.

[@TheRewasder97]

I'd say towers have way too low range now, 300 should be good

[@Icewolfnector]

Yeah, 300 sounds more reasonable. They should reach the actually capture point they belong too.

[@jamesmayes4351]

Love how Greasus knoblars didbt skip leg day 400 speed fatty is crazy his impact damage is nuts.

[@christopherhutchens8077]

So towers that protruding from the wall with line of sight don't have a way to have a gunner archer or mage in the tower with a smaller range inorder to hit the wall climbers or siege attackers. Not the best, but okay. Great video.

[@AdamShifnal]

Ngl honestly, wish the Siege battles were smaller Maps. Means a garrison can actually garrison properly.

[@therasco400]

Need a Garrison rework. Some units are just dumb in it. Calvary in the cities being a big issue.

[@darksendkilla]

Picking the ogres as the attacking force was a troubling scientific method as it removes the main contention of sieges, butt ladders. Butt ladders are the reason you don't hold the walls.

[@georgefinnegan2369]

As a siege modder, I think it's worth pointing out that CA created a bunch of very mod friendly changes. Nobody wants to be making unit mods incompatible because you have to update the weapons tables to make sure they aren't damaging the walls. Also, the locking mechanic wouldn't have been an easy mod to create. Barricade placement... well it was the least they could do, and I am glad they did it. Finally, vision on towers just makes sense to me. Also, I like seeing actual game play discussion rather than notes discussion. Thanks Nathan!

[@charleswinters9567]

Small tweaks ain't gonna fix sieges when they are FUNDAMENTALLY boring.

[@nakos1369]

Cool changes for sieges, next step maybe remove ass ladders hm? But yeah hopefully more work is put on sieges in the lifespan of the game.

[@fuchsmichael93]

Awesome Changes. The No Towers Mod was the very first Thing i got for Game 3 after a painfull Try of an Empire Campaign

[@Raving94]

i like the changes for me the not rebuild destroyed towers is the bigest point and im supprised that it actually works

[@donkey_oaty]

I’m really surprised you’re seeing such a difference. To me it seems like so little has been changed. I never really felt attacked by buildable towers anyway. The extra barricade slots feels far more notable.

[@omgraggy5358]

He is on copium tbh.

[@donkey_oaty]

Hopefully not final rework. We still need a complete rework. These are just placeholder fixes.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

Not happening. These "placeholders" are clearly aimed at making the experience better; not overhauling it entirely. Maybe a few more of those fixes, like slowing down how long it takes to climb a ladder is what will come, more than that is asinine.

[@kolpere1625]

I find them interesting this changes. Forcing to conquest 1 checkpoint prevents from just turtling in the main point. Now since someone have said, remove the pocked ladders to make walls matter.

[@ZombifiedNappa]

I didn't know the final point wasn't locked until after Chaos Dwarfs. So now I have to unlearn that and go back to playing how I did in the first place.

[@charleslister8465]

Big thing for me is does the Ai actually defend its main point or is it still dumb as a bag of rocks? Nice to see the stealth cap /spped cap is reduced but f they don't defend points or understand how they can use it just delays it a bit. In summary - better than it was but not as good as it could have been

[@DarkFenix2k5]

Now if CA can just get rid of pocket ladders too... Those are the bane of sieges and have been the whole trilogy, they make the walls nothing more than a minor speed bump. Ladders should be like they were in Medieval 2, a buildable scaling tool, much faster to build than siege towers, but still require building and are finite. I wouldn't object to some units being able to scale walls, kinda like the kisho ninjas in Shogun 2, but they should be rare specialists rather than the norm.

[@BillsTheory]

If they are gonna reduce the buildable tower range so much they should have re positioned them, some will be in areas that they will literally never be able to contribute to an engagement, that or have them only be directional with longer range instead of fire all around, and have them be basically over watch for capture points.

[@ComfortingColourlessLight]

I've started playing with the mod that only allows building defences during deployment shortly after you showed it in a video, but it is nice they finally got the hint.

[@Dukaaa]

The tower change should be quite noticeable

[@Coerciveutopian]

Wait, the buildable towers don't even shoot across the road now???

[@euromanijak]

They do they have 200 range, the inner circle which is 80 is the radius that reveals stalking units when they come close to a tower

[@martin111viuff]

the towers have 200 range and high elf archers have 180 so a bit longer than that

[@zarteen]

Sorry but any change to capture points should be: remove capture points Idk who was at CA like "yeah I know we've made our names on the simulation of model-to-model physical combat and collision between units but have you guys ever played Halo 3, capture the flag is my shit and I have a tattoo of Blood Gulch on my lower back" Siege battles should be about the physical terrain and obstructions, making use of systems that are already present like elevation differences and flanking etc etc It sucks because the maps are much better in terms of their intended design in 3, a lot more avenues of attack and chokepoints and so on The capture points have just continued to weigh down the already lackluster AI and pushed the game in a direction nobody asked for Unless you did ask for that, I mean. That's ok too but WHY Not being able to rebuild deployables is a step in the right direction though. I already played with stuff that boosted wall and gate health since they're singular variable changes Actually I already played with mods that turned off supply generation and victory tickets as well ... Alright I'm tired, I'll be back in a couple of years when the dlc is $5

[@Cjur]

Remove buildables entirely. No one wanted it.

[@KingofGeo]

Nerfing towers is a great idea as I am sick of not being able to use infantry in a seige as they will get sniped before than can walk anywhere, and naturally the tower is half a map away.

[@FestorFreak]

Seeing as in MP battles the attackers have about a 5:1 win ratio in sieges (in my extensive experience) i think the tower nerf is going to swing things further in the attackers’ favor than the wall buff will swing it to the defenders’. Not sure how to feel about these changes.

[@Malus131]

This is still very much a case of putting lipstick on a pig. If the base sieges in Warhammer are shit (which they are) tweaking the odd thing isn't going to do anything meaningful.

[@Manlikepegasus]

I feel like they should just add a toggle to turn off the barricade/tower mechanic for sieges. It’s boring, tedious, and immersion breaking. It also forces you to use certain tactics/defensive positions, and in turn removes a lot of your own personal strategy(not a good thing for a strategy game). I also think they should remove ladders, or at least limit them to certain races. For example, not letting beastmen use siege equipment. Thematically and gameplay wise, it just adds more flavor and difficulty to allow beastmen only to use ladders. Also maybe giving defenders larger garrisons or garrisons with more ranged units/artillery, making towers something to be feared, and making walls/gates a lot harder to break(even with rams or monsters). I think all that would add a lot more flavor, variation, difficulty for attackers, and advantage for defenders. They should also allow better placement options for player artillery(allow them on walls). Also just make walls more spacious/with more placement options. Garrisons though should mostly be made up of ranged units and artillery I think, and the maps/walls should encourage that ranged advantage for defenders. Adding moats around certain settlements(limiting attackers bum rushing walls), or sometimes adding single entry points can also add flavor/difficulty for attackers. I think sieges should be hard for attackers, more thematics, slower, and with more freedom to the defender. Again, a simple thing like only allowing ladders for beastmen, and making other races need to build dive equipment. Beastmen make up for it in the fact that they have monsters and once in melee hit like trucks, can deploy ladders quickly, but also lack the protection of siege equipment. The fact that an elite army like Tzeentch can just pull generic looking ladders out there ass is so poor on a gameplay and thematic standpoint, but with beastmen it can add more flavor/make more sense. Just play around with the theme, and make things more difficult and flavorful. I also just hate all the building mechanics/capture points(at most just have one capture point in the far back of the map). It makes sieges feel like a mobile game, and again forces certain tactics onto the player.

[@mremixed]

I'm not digging these changes. Extra wall health is pointless. Towers having tiny range plus one use seems pointless as well since they're fairly easy to destroy.

[@RebelCannonClub74]

Ladders wouldn’t be so bad if the melee defenders could either throw rocks or not give ground immediately to the climbers. The hard counter to this would be building stationary catapaults, bringing Air Force or spamming cannon/wall fodder to tire out/ deplete rocks.

[@DANINJAPIGEON]

Capture points on walls should give missile block and melee defence buff auras

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@truestorey3158]

I like these changes to, I expect a reshuffle and edit of my mod list, and I am pleased to see something in the direction I wanted, much love to all 💙💜❤

[@kevin47734]

I agree, the towers should always be able to defend the point they're connected to. Other than that, great change.

[@kennethpedersen47]

What about buttladders? It doesn't matter how many HP a wall have, when everybody can just scale them.

[@Doombot221]

Def need to see more maps, especially for skaven.

[@Malusdarkblades11]

I like the changes I would suggest 300/400m for towers and 100m for the anti stalk.

[@christophbaltes1508]

Did you comment the more points where you can build barriers?

[@daithomas1430]

I reckon with the ladders they should make it similar to Shogun 2, where the attackers use rope, get tired and lose a few units, but the defenders can interact with the ropes.

[@ianduarte1992]

That was empire, in shogun 2 they climb the walls bare handed.

[@TheHarimir]

ve need pitch/tar/boiling whater drops, or maybe just have units at the wall being climbed automatikly start pushing down ladders so its significantly less effektive

[@bibby659]

I agree they need to increase tower ranges for towers to at least help support the capture points. Especially since alot of tower positions basically make it to where the range can barely cover anything at all. I feel like this is going to be something modders are going to be messing with because of the disdain around it. I like the changes for walls and gates a lot more though. Because my friend who played beastmen could just charge down the gate and overwhelmed the garrison almost immediately. So to stop that from happening right off the bat is actually good to have. Makes holding the walls not only good, but also means you may need more armies to actually take a garrison... the amount of troops in a garrison still seem disappointing... but I at least have mods for that. Still, shouldn't need to be the job of modders to balance that though. This also is just a bandaid fix... honestly, I want to believe they will do better. However I still will never look at things positively till they apologize fully for past transgressions and to give back the write for the modders especially to talk again and post/update their stuff.

[@NVMemes4Liberty]

i run the ' no real time building' and 'no constructible siege towers.' The tower defense siege system is the problem.

[@wordshurt2676]

3 games and can't fix sieges, really makes you think who's the sucker here

[@FujimoraPantsu2]

They actually made them way worse. I didn't mind them in WH1 or 2 but now its instant autoresolve every time.

[@MaMastoast]

@@FujimoraPantsu2 Same. WH1 and 2 were just..bland and uninspired. But Wh3 is just straight up annoying. I especially find the minor settlement battles incredibly frustrating.

[@benderbendingrodriguez6375]

@@MaMastoast Wood Elves got screwed over by them the most. Their entire play style revolved around kitting you through the open forest. Now they're stuck fighting in small and cramped maps with terrible path finding which makes it a lot easier to catch them. For a faction that actually needed them like Norsca it almost doesn't even matter because their garrisons are so terrible now.

[@slaviksaylor7526]

I really hope that this siege change is just a first step in a total siege rework. I think they cannot remove capture points, pocket ladders, etc., in one go, because it will cause more problems than we think, but they will do it. Otherwise, why increase the hp of the wall if any unit can climb it, because there will be no pocket ladders in the future. I hope...

[@lewishorsman2219]

I’m fine with butt ladders provided they have a 50% chance of breaking when docking. They’re made it flimsy wood after all xD

[@simoncodrington]

Making it so when you destroy towers they actually f*ck off and stop popping up is a godsend! Having all of this in the base game is definitely the way forward If we got some actual deployable like little walls or pits that you could put in the open areas, I think that would help funnel the attackers into single areas, which feels more fun than playing whack a mole with stray units running all over

[@2Scribble]

1:05 - Hi Ho - Hi Ho - it's off to pillage we go! xD

[@Germanloverfromchina]

Did they do anything with powder units being able to actually shoot while on their own walls? It always drove me crazy that VC had a terrible time defending their own walls because of it.

[@kurtloban3664]

Sieges in TW3 just are not fun. To fix this: Defense: 1) Units on walls have some sort of inspire mechanic. 15% resistance to artillery, guns, arrows and spells. 15% increased in combat efficiency stats. 15% slower for units to become fatigued. This makes walls actually useful instead of cheesing. Units in cities should have a 5-10% moral buff. 2) All ladders must be built in queue for the siege and carried slowly (1 per turn per 5 units in the army). 3) Pop up towers and walls should NOT exist. You should get a certain amount of resources at the start and that is it. No rebuilding! Also arrow towers should do more damage AND have a kill meter. 4) Add customization to rearrange cities (think Minecraft) to create nice funnels and chokepoints using gold from the campaign. This would be a huge ask but very cool. Offense: 1) If you attack a city with walls within 2 turns, your army gains a "inspiring rush" ability - 10% increased in combat efficiency stats. This is to help with the lack of ladders, but allows human players to blitz as needed.

[@ce5122]

the towers should have more range but just have a much smaller firing cone instead of being a full 360°.

[@Betakpali]

I would like it if the infantry could not climb the walls. So a siege tower would be needed and a siege tower would be more durable. I think it would help the game, even now the units can't go through the gate. They are still climbing the walls.

[@via_negativa6183]

I honestly hope it's not the last "rework " be cause I want them to keep improving the seige battles even beyond this.

[@hunterseabolt1634]

I'm surprised they didn't try to lock this update behind a DLC...

[@kakaomilch5905]

This is pointless as long as the Gate frame blocks every missile unit from actually (effectively) attacking the unit that is attacking the gate

[@simoncodrington]

Actually some semi decent changes, have to check this one out and give it a go.

[@karll9556]

Do handgunners and LOS units actually fire properly from castle walls?

[@PeterTheCasual6804]

Did they fix a little how gunners are shooting from walls ? Just saw this video and was surprised how they shoot there :D Cause in 50% it sucks to get them to defend.

[@harrytan5579]

More hp in walls means nothing to AI as they either just climb the walls with ass ladders or build towers to climb the walls.

[@user-om2wm4hi5r]

Well well well CA finally start to integrate mods officially

[@NN-dl1gh]

Butt ladders gotta go

[@omgraggy5358]

This is not a rework?????? It is just few number changes?

[@Manlikepegasus]

Legend said he has sources saying we are getting more content for shadows of change. Anyone know anything about that?

[@stalhein62]

Overall these changes seem to be some progress. Not a fix for everything, but so far they don't seem to have broken anything new with the update.

[@michaelmorton6566]

Keiros is missing his blue fire of Tzeench spell now for some reason

[@stalhein62]

@@michaelmorton6566 there's the CA I know