Pathfinder (2e): Basics of Death Part 2 (Massive Damage, Heroic Recovery, Nonlethal Damage, Doomed)

[@HowItsPlayed]

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[@NaskaRudd]

Absolutely love this series ❤️ can't overstate how useful this is as a learning tool

[@HowItsPlayed]

Thanks! I'm glad they're helping!

[@Phraxas52]

"When you die, you're no longer doomed." Well.. yeah, that's.. how that would work, wouldn't it? XD

[@Ellio]

Also worth noting, spell damage can never be non-lethal, not even optionally (unlike weapon damage). For a spell to be non-lethal, it must have the non-lethal trait, like Daze or Phantom Pain.

[@Goromir43]

Very helpful. I'm trying to learn Pathfinder 2 and this has been a massive help. Very nicely explained.

[@HowItsPlayed]

Glad to hear the videos are helping!

[@S1leNtRIP]

Great stuff! These videos are just the best for learning! TY How It's Played!

[@gregkaye5583]

I've been greatly helped by this series but, as I'm trying to get started with the core rules and am finding rules covered that are outside the core but with no notification of such, I think I need to call it a day. Thanks for the core rules content so far.

[@exchatche5823]

Another good feat to note is Toughness, which makes your dying saves easier and gives you an HP bump. Mountain's Stoutness is a 9th level Dwarf feat that does the same thing, and it stacks with Toughness. Sometimes I take adopted ancestry just for that. There's also an Orc feat that does it without adding HP, but unfortunately for my Orc-Dwarf, it doesn't get another stacking benefit.

[@jkpsimplicio]

This is such a great video! Now, just to make sure I understand it correctly. If a character that was both Wounded 1 and under Persistent Fire Damage falls unconscious, he's now Dying 2. He gets moved in the initiative order to right before the creature that got him down. A turn passes and no one is able to help him. At the beginning of his turn he'll make a saving throw, which fails bringing him to Dying 3. Since he was under Persistent Damage he won't even get a chance to recover from it since you take the damage before you can resist it, and now he's dead. Is this correct? One more question, if a character is reduced to 0 hit points on his turn (from an Attack of Opportunity or Persistent Damage) does he get moved around in the initiative order? Oohhh, last one I promise. If he had Persistent Damage and was brought to 0 HP after an Attack of Opportunity before the end of his turn, would he suffer the Persistent Damage at the end of the turn bringing him to Dying 2 (in the same turn he was knocked unconscious)? Would he still be able to try to resist that? Man, I had been running combat all wrong lol Thanks again for making this videos so informative!

[@HowItsPlayed]

Yes! You are correct regarding Dying and persistent damage. Unless there is something unusual going on, like if he has the Diehard feat, in which case he would go to Dying 4, get to roll a DC 15 flat check to remove the persistent damage condition, and then scream at the other players to come save him already!! And yes, if the character is reduced to 0 HP on their own turn, they still get moved in initiative (the errata clarified this). And for the third question, he would be knocked unconscious, then suffer persistent damage raising his Dying condition by one more, then he would roll a DC 15 flat check to remove the condition, and then his turn would end and his place in initiative would move.

[@jkpsimplicio]

@@HowItsPlayed Thank you so much! I've been running combat wrong this whole time lol It's a lot more brutal than I led my players to believe =P

[@pillsburygoat]

Thank you for this series, it's helped me out a lot both as a GM and as a player. But I would appreciate you're help with this conundrum. How would you rule a character falling to 0 HP as a result of critically failing a fortitude saving throw against a damaging affliction (say, wyvern poison)? Would they just get 'dying 1' because of the damaging effect, or 'dying 2' because 'the effect that knocked you out was...the result of your critical failure' (pg 459)

[@HowItsPlayed]

Pretty sure that would be Dying 2. My condolences to that poor player.

[@FeTheStampede]

Awesome videos, why don't you create some videos about character concepts with the associated build?

[@HowItsPlayed]

I get asked about builds a lot, and I just don't think I'm the right guy to make those. I'm a "Forever GM" and really don't know the game well enough from a player's perspective to give solid build advice.

[@nugsnotdrugs7717]

Just to clarify, does the Doomed condition stack no matter the amount or source?

[@HowItsPlayed]

I think it depends on how the effect is written. It will usually say something like, "The target must succeed at a DC 37 Fortitude save or become doomed 1. If the target was already doomed, it instead increases the condition's value by 1, to a maximum of 3." So, in this case, the original source of Doomed doesn't matter. If the target fails their save and is not already Doomed, they become Doomed 1. If they fail the save and they already have the Doomed condition, but it's less than 3, then its value increases by 1. Doesn't matter where the target gained the Doomed condition from... if they're Doomed 1 and fail the save they become Doomed 2.

[@mistamichal]

Can you use hero points to avoid instant death from massive damage or is it just for removing the dying condition?

[@ostimeg]

Question, what if you deal double maximum hp damage, for instant death, but the attacker used a nonlethal attack, via taking the -2? I would rule that is an instant ko, but they're out for like full day. By the rules though it should be instant death, almost like the monster (let's say a Jabberwock) is so strong, even a knock out hit is lethal to a new adventurer.

[@HowItsPlayed]

IMO Nonlethal attacks can't kill, no matter how much damage they inflict. I view it as "nonlethal damage" vs. normal "damage". I'd likely treat it as any other knockout blow, for the sake of simplicity.

[@Oniphire]

If a target who's taken nonlethal damage becomes knocked out and continues to take lethal damage what happens? Do they not start dying until they have taken enough lethal damage to bring them to zero? Are they awakened by the damage? Does healing have any unusual interactions with nonlethal damage? I ask because I'm considering an eldritch archer who uses the divine spell list, and Admonishing Ray is the best scaling (non-focus) spell I've seen and wanted to make sure it'd be safe to use to help kill a target.

[@HowItsPlayed]

If an unconscious target with 1 or more HP suffers lethal damage, they wakeup unless that hit takes them to zero HP (in which case they start dying). But I don't think that's likely to occur with Admonishing Ray, because it won't knock a target unconscious unless it reduces said target to 0 HP. Page 623 of the Core Rules has all the details on what happens when a unconscious creature suffers damage.

[@Oniphire]

@@HowItsPlayed Thanks, I'll check it out.

[@FirstLast-wk3kc]

I am not sure. Is there any 1st part of these basics? I can't find. Hope it's not forbidden to russia.

[@HowItsPlayed]

It shouldn't be restricted anywhere... try this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nl6zfGOIht5rfNU