Trailmaster Vs. Junglas Vs. Hoodlum (Batoning)

(Viewer statment from Chester Thomas2)
"I just don't understand the stupid obsession with batoning. all of these blades are about 200 bucks and you abuse them like it's nothing. I wish I had money to burn like that"
(My Response)
I'm not sure what prompted the notion that it was an "obsession." I really don't think I sound obsessed. Regarding a quality knife, batoning is just a single aspect (among many) of its capabilities and nothing to obsess over. It's always surprising to hear someone label it "abuse" given the fact that I still own all three of these knives today and they're all 100% functional. I used the same TS to baton mesquite for a wood stove again last week. In fact, I can't remember the last time I broken a fixed blade knife.
This subject often comes down to a perception issue that's rooted in a lot of assumption rather than actual practice or experience. It reminds me of a person who uses an automobile for daily transportation but then isn't able to comprehend the idea of someone taking their car to the racetrack for the fun of it. After all, wasn't the car was build primarily for transportation? Not everyone will be interested in tracking their daily driver but it can be done safely. Likewise, not everyone feels comfortable batoning or understands that it can be done without ill-effect... still, many of us do it successfully. Is the risk of damage slightly higher, perhaps, but not in my experience. Ultimately, don't I get to use my property the way that best fits my use requirements?
There are times in which a knife is the ONLY tool that I'm willing to carry to nearly 13,000 feet elevation. Batoning can be accomplished in a reasonable fashion and it seems actually silly to me to not take the best tool for the job when constrained to certain parameters of weight, capability and flexibility of use. Yes, I might have to split wood in an emergency on a summit hike. No, I'm not going to take a hatchet due to weight. Yes, a medium sized knife will work if I have to employ it in that manor.... and I have the peace of mind knowing that it will work because I've used that particular knife in that particular way before.
I hope that helps man.

[@saintjohnsmyhe409]

THE GUY IS HUMBLE Not showing off and in real life conditions. xo

[@rustyshackleford17]

I love my big choppers, but I know their limitations. If I'm having to baton through 8 inch logs, I should have brought an ax.

[@markc2152]

I have attempted to break my jungles via buttoning 6 inch knotted up wood it defeated the the wood flawlessly

[@stevelewis7263]

Here in the U.K the Cold Steel Trailmaster is about £400 or $480, there is no way on Earth I would ever baton with a knife that expensive through wood that thick

[@YankeeWoodcraft]

Outstanding real world testing and it's great to see someone thinking out loud as they work. I pretty much agree with your assessments on what's reasonable and what's applicable in reality world. Thanks for taking the time to produce this series. It's going to be a reference for me.

[@GREY1551]

Great video as always! I was very happy to see you get back to this series. Thanks for all your hard work!

[@Patriot36]

Thanks Stacy! It's a fun series to do! I've got 3 more working right now, one of them being the BK9. I've also got an interesting fire steel video in the works, something I've never seen tested on youtube! You're the first person I've told and it should be up Saturday morning if not sooner.

[@robertschaffer852]

I like the reciprocating saw approach to gather wood!!!!!

[@hardrock1826]

Great video for batoning demonstration. It sure looked a lot like work though. I am now convinced, it's ax and saw all the way. Thanks for your hard work.

[@Mario-dp6ru]

This is a great video that helps me pick my next knife. Thank you.

[@AlexanderWolf]

Great testing !! Thaks for all the hard work...literally.I have the Hoodlum but never demanded so much from it.Good to know what can do if i need to. Best wishes from Chile

[@forkedroad]

Good comparison! Love the Junglas & trailmaster.. I regret it from time to time, but I just don’t like carrying the weight of an ax when I’m out. I still much prefer a folding saw, big fixed blade (9-10”), smaller fixed blade (4-6”) & a strong (triad) folder in my system.

[@howcroft22]

Love the fuel sawzall. Had it me a couple years now. Cut up a bunch of crap when I was moving out of my house recently and with the 12 amp hour battery it goes forever and has so much power.

[@GREY1551]

Stoked to see the addition of other knifes, especially the Bk9, and fire steel testing! 👍

[@Patriot36]

Right on brother! Part 2 of the firesteel testing is up now...

[@tacklengrapple6891]

Great job on this vid! One of the clearest examples of why there isn't any "do all" tool for outdoor survival. As you said, the right tool for the job is an ax. The amount of energy expended in calories and sweat to collect this wood is ridiculous. In a multi day survival situation you would quickly baton yourself straight into dehydration, and eventually death. Take the time to forage for usable smaller branches and twigs, or bring the right tool for the job in the first place. Either way you'll expend far less energy to achieve the same result. Excellent video!

[@CampfireTalk]

Great point being made repeatedly about crossover or tool threshold. I live in a more jungle-like environment with hard woods mixed in. Most always my tool choices in the back country for backpacking are a folding saw, med to small fixed blade and mult tool or SAK. If it's going to be establishing a back woods camp I'll have a machete and usually another guy will have a small ax. On another note, very rarely do I get to the point of needing to baton wood to get a fire going. Sometimes yes it is needed, but even in damp humid conditions I'm able to get a small dry fire going then build it into once there's heat. Great video buddy!

[@Patriot36]

I really appreciate your thoughts on this one brother! It's interesting to see how simple systems can get depending on needs, based off environment and conditions.

[@cadrician]

Hey Patriot, very nice, loved it! We can almost feel the heat and sweat pouring true the screen, lol! I chose the trail master myself for car camping, and the scout elite for backpack activities. Cold steel , for me, is the place to go to find a good user/beater blade. They just give me confidence, and for the price well you know, and the sheat systeme, that others lack. Well I'll look up for next one, enjoy the summer my friend while it last!

[@Patriot36]

Thanks buddy! Haha! Yeah, that one was a work out for sure at altitude! It's hard for me to ever find fault with CS. They always seem to do a good job and have several model to satisfy a specific need. The summer is our hard season out here but I'm looking forward to autumn and winter!

[@easyaussietarget3355]

New subscriber sir. Just wanted to say thank you for the great content and a practical, nonsensical way of looking objectively at things. Your description of the video nails it on the head. There is too much content out there although entertaining is very impractical and obsessed with the wrong aspects of knives and for what they should be utilized for.

[@moderncaveman100]

You just sold me on the Junglas. Great vid and thanks for highlighting that such batoning is not recommended.

[@Patriot36]

+moderncaveman100 Cool man! I think all of these have their good attributes but did feel that the Junglas had the slight edge at this particular task. Thanks for taking the time bud!

[@escariotnah4872]

If you find yourself having to baton large logs for whatever reason, start closer to the circumference. The center point requires you to overcome the binding forces that keep those giant halves together.

[@RazomDoPeremohy]

Excellent video, thanks for sharing.

[@gregwalker4236]

just found your channel, very impressed with your philosophy--know when your pushing too hard! subscribed!

[@quantumfixits7574]

Interesting test of these three knives batoning . (particularly the Coldsteel Trailmaster that I own) Thanks for the in depth and obvious work that you put into this vid. I concur with your theory that some of the scenarios presented shouldn't be attempted in the deep woods as they could damage your main survival tool .

[@wolfman011000]

Thank you for all your time and effort you have put into the testing, I own the Trailmaster and the Junglass and like the alot. I have avoided the Hoodlum because of the cutout in the blade to me it seemed rather stupid and pointless making such a weak point in the blade. Your point about where you live is very valid and often overlooked, in my region the trailmaster and the Junglass are overkill much as i love using them. I normally carry the recon scout SK5, SRK AUS8 and SOG fieldpup AUS8 as my knives the bruks small forest axe strapped to my pack and the gerber gator exchange a blade saw. I really like the gerber gator saw it is more like your SOG saw without the over travel problem and a better less flexable blade than the light weight gerber saw you tested.

[@Patriot36]

wolfman, if I never replied to this post, I want to take a moment and say thank you! Sometimes I come back to read these after newer comments come in and when I saw yours, I was struck with the idea that you're a cool dude and a true knife guy! Thanks for sharing your thoughts man.

[@wolfman011000]

Patriot36 Since we last spoke I have updated my kit for the coming year, I have retired my Gerber Gator exchagable blade saw for a Bacho Laplander, because gerber has discontinuied the saw. I have picked up a secondhand Trailmaster in San Mai III and look forward to using it. In the same deal i got a CS master hunter in San Mai III and i really like it 4" FFG witha V edge, missus was none to pleased when i elected it as my steak knife for the table so i bought her one as well and she now likes it go figure. I'll be taking the Hunter along as well this year with a view to replacing the SOG Fieldpup. Thanks for the reply hope you and yours are well have a good new year and God Bless.

[@ramonvelasquez8431]

You really put those blades to through their paces and they did well. I know the Junglas is an awesome chopper, but there's something about the Trail Master which I love, and I feel it's hard to beat on batoning.

[@Setaishafree]

Yeah, It's the width on that trailmaster that does it!

[@darthvaper6745]

Electric saw wins the challenge!

[@godspi4609]

props sir for all the hard work In this series of tests

[@Patriot36]

+Scott Harrison Thanks Scott, I appreciate that man!

[@godspi4609]

+Patriot36 it's nice to see a knife test doing things a knife can do although I agree with the whole get an ace or good saw thing to many ppl on KZbin use knives wrong ie prying and then get mad when it snaps on em

[@RollsRoyce1954]

That notch is the blade's weakness without question......Most blades don't have one. My Rtac ll dosen't so I don't have a worry about it breaking. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and adventures with us, I appreciate it sir.

[@Immortalized1]

Hoodlum has a design flaw. No competition for Cold Steel or ESEE

[@ricev7071]

Hoodlum is GARBAGE!! WAY overpriced and designed to fail when you're out in the middle of nowhere!!!!

[@RichAllfieldnohit]

Love your vids, bro, great testing!

[@Patriot36]

Thank you Rich!

[@livingsurvival]

I prefer my BK9! Nice demonstration of batoning and I agree a saw and large blade is a great combo.

[@Patriot36]

Another great knife! I've been testing one for about 9mo now and it's doing quite well. My plane is to compare it with two others.

[@derekrobbens5355]

You seem to be a really cool guy and turn out informative programs , love the use of reciprocating saw i have two of them but recently bought a DeWalt cordless chainsaw I can’t say enough about it if you don’t have one buy it you won’t regret it , no more spark pugs, gas/ petrol, 2/ oil, pull cord, or magneto to let you down, well done

[@survivalguyfyi5718]

Great video. Very informative. I will say regarding a large knife vs axe for splitting wood. That really depends on your environment. Nutnfancy made a very strong case for a large blade in snowy environments, pointing out that an axe required a base to be built over snow to balance a log for axe splitting whereas the large knife did not require that. Granted, he did carry WD-40. LOL. I highly recommend a watch. Video is called “Why Big Knives Don’t Suck”. Now if we are talking a base camp type situation I think an axe would be better. But we are talking hiking/mobile.

[@random_eskimo_in_the_rockies]

It's funny watching this. I'm now retired and no longer live in Alaska but I still use wood to heat my home. Most of my home wood processing is done with my kukri and my custom Parang made by the same people I got my kukri from, and it's about 10mm thick. I mention that because as I'm watching I'm seeing all the mistakes, I'm sitting here correcting you in my head from all of the little things I've learned from doing so friggin' much batoning. Good video.

[@random_eskimo_in_the_rockies]

By the way, I regularly cut through logs the size you gave up on with your Junglas.

[@Patriot36]

Um...okay, I have no reason to doubt that. Obviously no two logs are of the exact same structure and chemistry so it's a bit of a mute point. I mentioned in the video that the baton failed and honestly, I was at the end of my video rope that day and did the best I could with what I had, with the time and energy that I was willing to expend at that point in my day. I had to pack and leave shortly after but the video wasn't about executing the most perfect or efficient baton session, it was just to talk about it in general. With regards to the knives you suggested, sure they're all structurally capable of splitting large wood for a lifetime but at some point I have to decide how big of a blade I'm going to carry for an emergency. Last month it was an ESEE6 because I was climbing a 12,000ft mountain. 3 weeks ago it was the Armageddon, Last week it was a BK9 because I was climbing less than I was a month ago. At camp, I use an axe.

[@random_eskimo_in_the_rockies]

Patriot36 Apologies if it came across as a criticism. I really liked your video, I just found it funny that even though I'm retired, I still haven't stemmed all of my career-long teaching instincts (like pointing out you meant "moot" not "mute" point.) I'm quite jealous, because I'm very impressed by the new technologies becoming available to share love of outdoors. I don't know that I have the energy to make videos like you're doing, but I sure appreciate the skill and efforts of those of you who do. You've gogt really good taste in knives, I've been a Becker fan since I bought a Machax directly from Ethan Becker himself decades ago. I no longer run around the Rawah Wilderness like I did when I was a bulletproof teenager (glad to see teenagers still believe they're bulletproof) and my outdoor use these days is the occasional hunting trip where I usually maintain camp and a few Scout car camping trips. Keep up the good work and keep the videos coming.

[@CraftyCleetus]

RIP Ron Hood. Wish I got ahold of a Hoodlum back in the day

[@ZombieSC]

Thanks Patriot, as always a great video. Stay safe!

[@Patriot36]

You got it Grognard! Will do! Thanks for stopping by man!

[@usmale9112001]

Hey it's not raining on you! I was up on the rim last weekend and got drenched, caught some nice trout though. Love your vids bro!

[@Patriot36]

Yeah, you guys got drenched good last weekend! Catching trout is just about one of the coolest things that I can think of! The only thing better is cooking and eating them. I love those darn things! Thanks brother!

[@reallyhappenings5597]

ESEE's 1095 steel is strong, basically unbreakable at any temperature while also flexible enough for impact and easily sharpened

[@1987jkilla]

The smiling cyclops at 03:00 is cute.

[@vector8310]

Good catch

[@Cr0cket20]

Haven't played with that trailmaster yet. The other two yes. Great video and there were some tough spots in some of those pieces.

[@Patriot36]

The funny thing is, that I like all of them. I was a little bit disappointed to leave a bend in the Hoodlum. Honestly, that really surprised me. I've already got it fixed though.

[@MuleysAndBushcraft]

Patriot36 I was surprised to see that your Hoodlum bent. I personally have been pushing the limits of the Hoodlum for years, and while I have gotten quite a bend as I've batoned it through wood, it always seems to return to true. Maybe I have not noticed it... anyhow, good comparison. I hope to get the Trailmaster and Junglass in the future.

[@Patriot36]

Thanks M&B! Yeah, I was surprised too, really. I assume it was from the knotted piece that I batoned right before I started looking at the blade. I saw that it was quite bowed while going through that piece and when I looked at it sometime afterward it was bent to the left. The other two are great knives as well but if one doesn't baton or rarely batons, I think the Hoodlum is a fine knife.

[@drzmanproject]

that moment when you went to work with that cordless Milwaukee -- oh yeah, wasn't expecting that! Brilliant.

[@Patriot36]

Haha!! Yeah, I sort of planed it to surprise after editing the intro of the Milwaukee out of the video. :) Thanks for watching brother!

[@newhuskytwenty]

Wow, a portatil battery powered wood saw, I have never seen one of those in my country, everybody has one with a gasoline engine and that's all. About the folding saw, yes! I felt in love when I purchased a Bahco Laplander for trekking, hardly needed a machete since then, just a small fixed blade or my trusty folder Opinel #10

[@aaronpomerinke5811]

Have you done your 3rd comparison test yet? I couldn't find it on KZbin.

[@alexislarios7798]

I like outdoor life tests to be quick and precise.

[@daverose7457]

wow you put alot of effort in your testing

[@MrGhostwolf999]

As always, great vid Patriot. Maybe in the future you can test a Tahoma Field knife from TOPS. Looks like it may match well with your other three choices.

[@Patriot36]

Thanks Ghostwolf! I would be up for taking a look at that. I've already been testing a BK9 and would like to match it up against two similar types. Thanks for watchin man.

[@grumpyoldwizard]

I have a scandi GFB axe, a medium size Busse, and a Mora for food/delicate tasks. They don’t weight much together and handle most of the jobs I run into. Man, that notch on the Hoodlum STILL makes me nervous!

[@zeroa6]

Hey! good tests! chopping test was good and now I´m looking at this. One question: ¿What tipe of saw is it? Thanks for sharing!

[@zeroa6]

Oh! I see.. you answer it to another viewer, is an Milwaukee Fuel, ¿right?. ¿2720-20 M18 SAWZALL?

[@THELOUWINELOUNGE]

Big Dog, I am a Junglas fan. I spent two years up in Maine and I would sell my dogs tail for that blade. What part of the country is that land on? Very nice.

[@SuperSpannerX1]

Watching This Video Gave Me A Great Work-Out Thank's !

[@Patriot36]

We'll, I had your fitness in mind John! I hope you don't mind getting up early because I'm going for a mountain bike ride...lol.

[@doncimaglia]

John Smith I

[@JMLockpicking]

Nice vid...well thought out.

[@Patriot36]

Thanks man! I appreciate the support!

[@justindavis3761]

With proper heat treatment that 5160 should have rebounded back easily. Just poor heat treatment in Bucks part.

[@2873lonewolf]

I know this is an older video, but if anyone can add info, what are you spraying on your blade before batoning? Is it like Rem oil or just plain WD40?

[@sovaprepper120]

thanks for the great testing patriot. is the trail master in your video a older sk5 or the newer version

[@Patriot36]

You got it man!!! The TM in the video is the SK5 version. I also have a CarbonV version.

[@dcrickerson9775]

Thank you Patriot for another very well done video.

[@Patriot36]

You got it DC! Thanks for taking the time buddy!

[@muddnyreye]

Great comparison, I've wanted to see the (3) heads up.Just wish you had included the BK9.

[@Patriot36]

Thanks man! The BK9 is in testing for a while now. It's being compared to two others. :)

[@frankwoods135]

I would definitely go with a essee or trailmaster for a batoning but since the trailmaster is a hidden tang and I've seen the trailmaster break from batoning

[@Patriot36]

Sure. I understand the appreciation for full tangs and respect why people often favor them. Having used both types my whole life, I've never run into an issue with a hidden or reduced tang and so I tend to enjoy any knife that has a good mix of positive attributes. I really don't have any favorites and would take either one if someone else had to pick for me.

[@frankwoods135]

for people saying batoning is impractical the reason people baton with full tang knives is weight and the systems you have if your hiking and weight is an issue you might only be able to carry a fixed blade

[@timbourgeois4496]

thanks for helping me make a decision,,,,

[@Patriot36]

Sure thing Tim! Thanks for taking the time man.

[@GREY1551]

Hey brother, still patiently awaiting the continuation of this series. 😉

[@iscariotproject]

i prefer to baton,cant chop with an axe in deep snow,its also safer when tired,i have found that when batoning you need to think of it as sawing,let the tool do the work not your arm,take your time,you can even use lighter batons then you think,if you wanna split a tree down(ive done it)you can just make some wedges,but summer time a small axe is faster way to get something split up,buty i find i never really need to split during the summer i just grab small stuff close to the trees and some fatwood.

[@richroc7]

We think alike, I prefer an axe/hatchet for splitting wood but I bring an Esee 6 or Junglas just because I want to for whatever purpose I may need it for. Idk why all these armchair Bushcrafters think batoning is the greatest thing. Good video bro 👊

[@vincef7487]

1:43 I'm like "that's not BATONNING!" LOL

[@B-leafer]

Good test

[@docpearson]

All those neatly cut logs are cut flat on each end already by some kind of giant saw. And since you are not going to find logs like this in the woods but at home or in camp why not simply have simple log splitter in camp or at home so you dont have to beat your knife with another log to split the wood. Because I kinda doubt you will find neatly pre cut logs in the woods in an emergency situation. If we saw somebody in our camp out there with his precious hunting knife beating it with a log forever to split some wood to make a fire with we would all get a good laugh at him and then take him over to the log splitter we have in camp that does everything for us. We like to keep our hunting knives that were used to skin and butcher game with razor sharp. We certainly would not want to dull the edge of it by beating it with a log. If you need to make a fire in the woods there’s usually tree limbs that you can use as firewood firewood laying all over the place just go pick it up. The only thing I can see that you might need to do in the woods if it has been raining is to take a piece of wood and shave all the small pieces for some kindling to get a fire started. Most all of us simply have a small Tube container with a waterproof screw on top and we put cotton balls in there that have been covered with Vaseline. And we all have striker rods that are very small and can easily slip in the pocket. We pull out our cotton balls that have been swabbed in Vaseline out of the waterproof containers take a striker rod and poof we have an instant small mini fire that can even dry out wet twigs. To make sure I always have my striker rod and Cotton Ball tender and it’s very small cylindrical waterproof tube I simply slip them into the pouch that came on the knife sheath we buy strictly for that purpose. So I never have to worry about making a fire in the woods. We don’t have to beat our knives to death with some big stick to make a fire if we are way off in the woods away from the camp. PS in the pouch on my sheath I also keep a spare small compass and a very tiny skinny LED flashlight so I can read my compass at night time if I’m caught out after dark. If we are planning on going deep in the woods for whatever reason most of us also have a small emergency pouch bought from the Esee website that has fishing tackle bandaids cordage and extreamly lightweight fold up heat reflective sheet we put on our belts. And we all possess those small fold up hand saws with supplied sheath that easily fit on a belt if we need to build a shelter but most of us rarely carry our little tiny handsaws Except on our yearly cleanup days at the camp to get ready for deer hunting And on that day we all grab machetes also. So as for taking a big log and beating our wonderful razor sharp hunting knives we would consider that absolutely insane.

[@woofman4796]

where is this,, i am in west central florida

[@csh6220]

If you are against batoning, do what Mors Kochanski did in a batoning video. He used his knife to just get a small cut in the log, then used wedges he made and tapped them until the log split, and it had a big knot in it. No damage to the knife as he barely tapped it into the log. I didn't think the wedges would work but Mors knows everything bushcraft.

[@random_eskimo_in_the_rockies]

I would agree that a Buck Hoodlum, an Esee Junglas, and possible even a Becker BK9 should only be used for light batoning or in an emergency. However, once you step up into the realm of Very Heavy Large knives like the Trailmaster, the Busse Battle Mistress, or the Himalayan Imports Ang Khola you cross over into knives that should be able to truly process any wood. A Busse FFBM or an 18" Kukri with an 8-12 mm blade should be easily capable of batoning through seasoned red oak with knots and burls for as long as the user has arm strength. I'm a big fan of batoning as a preferred method of wood prep because it has a much higher degree of safety involved. You direct the splitting edge exactly where you want it and with exactly the degree you want, which is something that's just impossible with using an axe. I certainly wouldn't give up my Gränsfors Bruk Scandinavian Axe, but I've split mountains of firewood with my HI kukri and it was still just fine when I left it with a former student in Alaska after I retired.

[@ricev7071]

Ontario RTAKII ALL the way!!! Made with better steel, and way cheaper than both!! Cold Steel is good but the Hoodlum is garbage!! I chopped through fallen trees in winter after a snowstorm here in Canada with an RTAKII and did the job fine every time. I find it totally laughable that the Hoodlum didn't spring back straight, If it doesn't break, it bends!!! The RTAKII bends around the knot in the wood and comes out straight at the other end, and there are videos of that happening here on KZbin!! RTAKII is KING!!! Best survival knife for the money and I would not hesitate to buy another if I were to ever give mine away to someone who really needed it. In fact, my RTAKII is such a valuable knife to me that I'm having a Kydex sheath made for it as we speak!!! I rarely get custom sheaths for my knives but my BK7 and my RTAKII are the only 2 that have, or will have Kydex for them.

[@DG__3]

Junglas took a slight bend.

[@Gterr1971]

I've seen more than one hoodlum break at that wire breaker. and now you bent one? I'll never buy one. looks cool though

[@nonjaninja4904]

I would pick up one of those Trailmasters if they were like 70 bucks, not 110 or whatever they're asking.

[@Gterr1971]

when your canoe goes over a waterfall and all you have is the knife strapped to your side , that is when batoning wood with your knife is a good idea. this is just showing you all that with the right knife it can be done.

[@Airik1111bibles]

I would have loved to see a budget blade in the mix, something like the Condor Moonshiner also Ontario's Sp 51.....why cant you buy more knives for these reviews;-) LOL Jokes aside this is the best review on batoning ive seen AWESOME job dude. Look into the Condor Moonshiner and Moonshiner you would like um I think.

[@Airik1111bibles]

Sorry Moonstalker....my phones auto spell;)

[@Patriot36]

Thanks man! ...and I've got an SP51 and kinda like it, as well as a BK9 which isn't a bank breaker either. I'll get something up this summer on those.

[@Patriot36]

Np man, knew what you meant.

[@ihikearoundcom]

Small knife, saw but now you have me thinking about carrying an ax. Love these real world test and the rational behind the testing.

[@Patriot36]

It's a fascinating subject and I've been outlining a discussion video about it. Region, wood types, conditions, including wet or dry, hot or cold, need or desire for fire, length of stay, need of mobility and even skill level to a small extent, all factor in. I'm not familiar with your local or most frequented lands of course but my initial position is that you might be better served by a slightly larger knife for short trips covering medium/long distances. This would help cover yourself in wet or snowy conditions. In my area, the axe is handy for base camps where large wood is abundant. For through trips in the summer, I will make do with an ESEE 6 or something sub-1lb. For through trips in winter I like a heavy, thick knife or a medium knife and my smallest hatchet (which is slightly heavier). There are so many variables and I still haven't decided if there's a single formula to best cover them all. Perhaps I'll eventually narrow it to two set-ups that cover most scenarios.

[@REBELSCL]

I’m leaning towards the LionSteel M7…..

[@JeepJeep234]

I personally feel that in a survival situation, you should avoid the risk of breaking your knife pounding it through logs. I don't see a problem with chopping but beating on the spine over and over to split wood risks breaking the knife. I just got a Junglas not too long ago and although its warranty covers abuse, I don't expect to abuse it. I mostly got it knowing it will handle much much more than I expect to put it through, for just in case.

[@Patriot36]

I partially agree however I suppose it all depends on the nature of "survival situation" and its immediate ramifications. If you find yourself soaked after a near freezing rain and you have no option to warm yourself other than a fire because you're showing early signs of hypothermia... you're probably going to have to build a fire. If the wood is completely saturated to the point that you have no option but to seek out 3-4" diameter logs to find dry wood and your only tool is a knife...well you can see where this is going. I think that the situations that would require heavy batoning are somewhat unlikely while the requirement for light batoning is probably quite likely.

[@MuleysAndBushcraft]

Good video. Thanks for sharing.

[@paulie4x1]

Say Heah, Jess, Case ? I couldn't understand your name, Sorry about that. Yeah, It's practically a known fact that a Saber Grind doesn't have as much wood drag because of that relief edge, where on a Flat Grind it's atop of the spine, so it does splits better. I don't have to use WD-40 as much on a Saber Grind either..But they are a little heavier and that aids in chopping, where with a Flat Grind it's a little better slicer like a Machete opposed to a Axe. I have a Vintage (Older) Cold Steel Trailmaster, I didn't know what I was buying and the Sporting Good Store going out of business didn't know what they were selling, For that, I got a fantastic deal on my San Mai 3 Trailmaster. Infact I have a Infomercial video that Lynn Thompson claiming the San Mai 3 Trailmaster was the strongest knife made at the time in the whole world bot Custom and Commercial and I sort of believe that, atleast back then (circa 1990) It was my Fav's at that time and only to be replaced by my Rodent 9 recently, I also like my O.K.C. Gen2 SP-53 as a chopper especially for the $$$. Nice area, nice video and Thanx, I enjoyed your video. I also have (2) Recon Scout's, both in the CarbonV, I also have a Vintage O.D.A. and a S.R.K. in the CarbonV, the one Recon Scout I use the other one is a virgin with the cordoba sheath and the red warning tape, It was never worn or sharpened. I also have a newer C S Kukuri Plus in O1 that's a formatable chopper as well as (2) Himalayan Imports M-43 Khukuris a larger one and a smaller one and the smaller one has a White Handle the other one is a black Buffalo Horn Handle. I also like my Gen2 SP-51, the even number SP's are Flat Grind and the uneven are the Saber Grind especially in the higher model numbers. Oh and my Fox Hitam Golok is a pretty good chopper in the N690Co. But your absolutly correct a Hatchet/Axe is the best way to go when alot of wood needed to be processed especially to stay warm, My Summer Long Knife my Rodent Rucki is a great chopper too and I can baton with it and It has a choil which I love on a knife. and the Butter Knife tip on my Bark River Golok is a good chopper and the tip doesn't allow you to hit the ground as easy because of the shape of the tio, Again Thanx much.

[@OpaKnows]

Physics at work. The Hoodlum has the full flat grind (FFG), which drags along the surface of the wood, creating no separation between spine and wood. The shallow "sabre" grind of the Junglas, to me, is not that much better because of the relatively overall thickness of the blade. Just not enough mass for large batoning. The coating on both the Junglas and the Hoodlum add to the drag factor too. The Cold Steel Trailmaster's beefy thickness and shiny skin, combined with the right edge, can pop its way through 6" logs in the hands of a semi-accomplished cutter such as myself, let alone a better one like you. Out of these three, I think the Trailmaster stands tall above the other two in both aesthetics and function. Very fine review!

[@Patriot36]

I always appreciate your perspectives Sabr! Yeah, I didn't really notice the mass of any of the knives coming into the picture so much as I did the drag. The Junglas did well in wood with straight grain, perhaps even better than the TM. The TM however did a little bit better when the grain was twisted. Thanks as always for the continued support, man!

[@frankwoods135]

for your average camping trip where you making a few fires an Essee 6 and a silky folding saw would be ideal as far as weight wouldn't you say

[@Patriot36]

For hiking and camping... yes, for sure. Great combo! For car camping and shooting trips though, larger tools are more efficient. The same goes for camping in heavy snow, where I've found the larger tools, even if they're a little heavier, can be worth their weight, especially if you're relying on a fire for warmth. In the summer time, I'll use a light, 5" knife to baton wood for a small wood stove where the required burn duration is short.

[@moorshound3243]

I'm with you on that one!

[@paulie4x1]

Say Heah, There's a new kid on the block. I always wanted a C.S. Trail Master in the CarbonV. I think I found one, Its called a BK-20, same steel and similar in size. Its a 10.8" blade and a 1/4" thick, and I like the handle better.

[@paulie4x1]

Actually, I like my Bundok BK-20 better, Even though I already had the BK-4 and 5, I still ordered the Limited Edition, So now I have 2-4's, and 2-5's

[@Gmar69]

Crap, who needs a knife when you have that cordless sawsall. Game over!

[@ricev7071]

Til you run out of battery juice!!!!

[@couchcamperTM]

I like the results, but I am biased - I love the Trail Master :) atb Markus

[@Patriot36]

It's ok to have a favorite! As you can tell, I've remained pretty impressed with it!

[@RichAllfieldnohit]

I've been putting a tremendous amount of thought into Knives vs. Axes. Of all sizes. Of course, I love the large survival knives. But I can see the appropriateness of a small blade is you're running fast and light. The question in my mind is, at what point does light weight just become stupid and puts yourself at risk?

[@Patriot36]

I've got a dedicated video coming on this topic and only scratched the surface in the lead-in to the batoning sesson. I hope to have it recorded to my liking & posted by September. To your last question, my short answer is that it's subjective to each individual and circumstance. For example, a certain kit that's ideal for a 36 hour stay may be completely inadequate for a 5 day trip. In another scenario, perhaps a desert region, a 5.7oz Northwest Ranger and Bacho folding saw might be more than sufficient for a month or more if a person so chose to undergo. During the Canadian winter one might choose a Gränsfors Scandinavian Forest Axe, Bacho 24" bow saw, a BK9 and a Mora. The same dude come summer might lighten out to a Gransfors Wildlife Hatchet, Silky Gomboy 270, and an ESEE4. Many variables, for sure!

[@RichAllfieldnohit]

yes yes yes, thanks

[@DrBlues76]

Hey, what happened to you and Swibo6?

[@Zephius]

"Stupid name though" Shit man, they could name it the "poopnoodle 5000" and I'd still get it

[@dennisleighton2812]

Only comment I have is; I would NEVER hammer a knife's cross-piece like that! That is just crazy.

[@Patriot36]

The point being, if it doesn't break doing that, it probably won't when you're doing anything less abusive and yes, it's unrealistic. I got tired of people saying, "you'll destroy your knife batoning" and by that they mean splitting anything over an inch or two in diameter. I still own all three of the knives and use them fairly regularly. The guard on the Cold steel is still perfectly tight which means that if you accidentally hit it once or twice, it will probably be fine.

[@dennisleighton2812]

@@Patriot36 You might notice that in my comment I said "I" would never do that. It is just so much better to cut a couple of wooden wedges and hammer those into incisions made with a knife or saw (assuming one doesn't have an axe _ which I typically wouldn't have). However thanks for the reply, and I'm very glad your knives haven't suffered any damage yet.

[@xXcrixusXx]

Have you heard of the vts bowie by svord

[@Patriot36]

Do you mean the VTB?

[@jasholden9741]

I was a poster on the Hoodlum forum while Ron was alive. The Hoodlum knife is crap.

[@escariotnah4872]

It's curious that the Trailmaster and the Junglas showed similar performance in the baton test, where the weight difference of the knives is overwhelmed by the force of the baton, considering the Trailmaster outperformance in your chopping video. If the respective grinds resulted in the chopping difference, then the Trailmaster should have been even more dominant in the batoning test. Perhaps your chopping technique benefits the speedier knives as opposed to the heavier knives?

[@Patriot36]

That's possible I suppose. Of course, the "out performance" was marginal and some of the subjective preference was due to the feel of the knife in the hand at point of contact. There are other dynamics happening during the chopping as well which might only be understood with a high speed camera. I sort of wish that I had been in the same shape in that chopping video that I am now. I've been doing a lot of chop testing with three new knives and I should get some of those up during the fall. Thanks for watching man!

[@RichAllfieldnohit]

The Trail Master is the best batoner in my testing. However, there are a lot of guys that swear by the Junglas.

[@Patriot36]

There are virtually to close to call in that department. Depending on wood, it could be that each are better at times. In my testing, the TM splits early and the Junglas sinks further in before splitting but snaps the wood apart. It's slightly less predictable.

[@Wildwestwrangler]

You should see the battery operated chainsaw by Makita!!! Casey over at Coyote works KZbin channel, uses one to great effect!!!

[@matthewmitchell8678]

Batoning isn't useless like some people think. If you are going to carry a bunch of equipment you'll be very tired. Nice video. Most of my knives are 1/4" to 3/16". My son has the buck I have several Tops knives and they can handle it. I've just started to pick up Esee knives. Cold Steel and I parted ways. I've had to many of their knives that didn't hold up. They sharpen up nice (some times). I won't mention the ones that broke.

[@navigator1372]

And actually that COULD be real world application. What if its been raning everywhere and then snowed and thats the only dead wood you can find? Having a saber grind could actually save your life. Now that situation is very Unlikely to happen but it could. If you didnt have an axe the bk 9 would still go through

[@LELDocSavage]

Your uncles place? How do I get adopted? Nice video Patriot! Thanks again.

[@Patriot36]

I don't think he's adopting any more Larry. He's already got enough horses, dogs, elk and deer running around up there....haha. :) Thanks, my friend!

[@kevinkeesee7267]

GOOD STUFF. sube'd

[@JJ-qi9zn]

The ESEE and the Cold Steel could have spilt that wood I have pushed both of them much harder with no problems.

[@Patriot36]

I know you have Jeff, and it's awesomely handy that you possess the exact same composition of wood, with the same sap, moisture content, genetic signature and ambient temperatures as I had that day, so that you'd be able to know what my knives can split. Just the fact that you mention it is a huge help to me so that I don't cut myself short next time.

[@otheraccount6404]

3:37 pc principal

[@Christopherjamesmurphy21]

Dude why didnt I think to bring a recip into the bush!!! Thats genius. Lol jk. Have a great day

[@AngryIrishBastard]

Very common sense vid - I like that you keep using "practical" use - dictionary.reference.com/browse/practical 4. adapted or designed for actual use; useful: practical instructions. 7. mindful of the results, usefulness, advantages or disadvantages, etc., of action or procedure. too many "abuse vids" - although its nice to know the limits of a tool - to abuse a tool past "common sense" and possibly destroy the only tool (most valuable ??? ) doesn't make any sense - Seems to me that bush work/ bush craft/ etc is as much about knowledge as it is about tools and their practical use. Great vid - I love my Junglas as it completes my love affair with Esee knives ( I have Esee 4, Esee 5 serrated, Esee 6 and the Junglas all have purpose and applications based on what I am doing - they all match well with my Wetterlings Bushman Axe and my Silky Gomboy - every tool has a purpose and with "thought and practicality" they serve me well and hope so for a long time.

[@Patriot36]

Thanks ACs! I really appreciated your thoughts on this man!