Top 20 HARDEST NES Games!

What are the 20 most difficult NES games? We discuss a curated list from Seth Abramson!
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➡Seth's RETRO substack @retrostack.sub...
#retrogaming #NES #nintendogames

[@PatTheNESpunk]

What do you think about Seth's curated list? Are they any that should have made the top 20 that did not? Are any too easy that should NOT be on the list? Let me know! Check Seth's RETRO substack @retrostack.substack.com/

[@LEXICON-DEVIL]

Your stuck n a rut my dude. Your stuck in a routine that has plateaued long ago. Take a break, refresh and come back with new ideas. Take care bruv. 👍

[@adonismontesinos3968]

Ian and Pat show

[@andrewalexander4331]

Dragon's Lair?

[@benjaminyoung9694]

Randomly chosen at best. May of been chosen based on videos and not playing the games

[@Bonepesci]

What I think is why so greedy with the ads every 5 mins?? There’s less ads on sports highlights how about that pal. I accept the need for ads but come on man this is ridiculous

[@CaptainVideoBlaster]

I had friend who used to slump on a couch upside down while playing Punch Out. He could beat Mike Tyson while holding a conversation with normal eye contact. It was unreal.

[@osurpless]

Anyone can; Sinister1 breaks it down quite well here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eafdepVraLGWpNE

[@dacatindahat8275]

It's beaten blind folded on KZbin. Not hard to believe at all.

[@justsayin4632]

Pfft. Call me when he does all that on a laggy ass LCD. Lol

[@randycunningham7318]

I beat Mike, while playing hookie.

[@emfs9522]

I beat punch out blindfolded and my hands tied behind my back. It was truly unreal.

[@juicybear1986]

I always think adventure island should be high up on these lists. They gave you the continue code in the back of the manual but I can only imagine most kids missed it. Otherwise it is brutally difficult as you progress

[@Svankmajer]

Oh yes, Adventure Island, much harder than G&B and Battletoads, but only due the latter levels. Its surprising, but try beating it. I dare you.

[@doburu4835]

@@Svankmajer g&b?

[@Svankmajer]

@@doburu4835 Ghost and goblins... um, I guess thats G&G then...

[@therealquinnzack1819]

I completely agree :0

[@theitiswhatitiscounter5124]

I remember beating that game in one sitting (bad idea) back in 2018. I started in the early hours of the morning, and I finished the game just before the afternoon. I spent a handful of hours in World 8, and I finished the playthrough tired and on edge. It is fucked up how screwed you are when you lose your Axe, since the later levels have no weapons to take care of the constant spamming enemies. Adventure Island 1 was my mum's favourite game when I was growing up, and we were not even aware of the egg that gave you unlimited continues at the time. If I remember correctly, I think the furthest my mum got with just the one continue was World 6. It is a shame that you had to find an egg and then press a button combination on the game over screen to get unlimited continues, since I think my mum would have beaten it back in the day if she was aware of the possibility.

[@DoomPlague]

Personally, I judge difficulty based on how it is with a blind playthrough on the first try and how long it takes to figure out strategies and timing. Many people say things like "that level/boss isn't hard at all. All you have to do is..." and then they bring up a bunch of knowledge that you can only get by playing the game many times or get help from a guide/internet forum/friend/etc.

[@BryanX64]

@DoomPlague Well a game's difficulty towards gamers that have already played the game and is STILL tough, to me, is more of a testament to how difficult it truly is. I've beaten Castlevania 1 many times and it can still be really tough towards the ends despite any knowledge and strategies I may have from prior playthroughs.

[@theconsolekiller7113]

So many cheated playthroughs online too and liars. All my playthroughs and tutorials are legit with details , time spent to beat, etc in the descriptions. These days you can practice much more efficiently with save states. I never use them to cheat or skip sections though, just for efficient practice, then put it all together.

[@DoomPlague]

​@@BryanX64 Its definitely true that some games are difficult regardless of your knowledge and experience. Castlevania was the game I got along with the NES w/SMB and Duck Hunt. I never beat it until I decided to give it a go 30 years later.

[@EvilNightwolf]

Sickest achievement of a human being i've ever seen was how the mexican runner did the turbo tunnel blindfolded. Absolutely nuts what some players can do in games.

[@hueysharapova7175]

He is a known cheater so that probably didnt happen.

[@nttn5264]

Airwolf, Holy Diver, Solomons Key are a couple of the hardest games I managed to beat, but I think The Last Starfighter takes the cake. You have to navigate thru 15 insane levels and there are no continues. That is incredibly hard considering that you die in 1 hit from bullets you didn't even see.

[@rezterralico4369]

I beat holy diver legit on the switch. Yeah last like bit is brutal.

[@nttn5264]

@@rezterralico4369 Yeah, the last stage is pretty brutal! For me stage 4 was the worst, specially with that rotating "tower-boss" at the end.

[@BoboBreez]

Gradius is harder than most of these games on this list, surprised it's not included

[@EliteGamersUnited]

definetly hard, BUT FAIR, thank you for inspiration to do a hardest shmup list for my humble little channel

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

I never thought Gradius was particularly hard. Especially compared to later games in the series. Arcade Gradius 3 is straight up unfair.

[@tigmo55]

I'm surprised that Life Force wasn't mentioned either.

[@BoboBreez]

@@tigmo55 life force actually didn't give me alot of trouble I recall beating that one fairly easily.

[@BoboBreez]

@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN took me 3 days to beat

[@MarshallFlores]

Pretty difficult games that didn't get mentioned: Star Wars, Abadox, Gradius, Bucky O'Hare.

[@tigmo55]

Nice points there! Abadox was painfully difficult at times while Bucky O'Hare was a sneaky difficult game for sure. One of the toughest Konami games IMO!

[@dariusq8894]

Gimmick/Mr.Gimmick has got to be up there. Mastering the physics of the star shot alone is difficult then you actually have to apply it while platforming. I contend this game doesn't get cited more often only because it wasn't released in NA.

[@aidanb4477]

And it's also one of the rarest Famicom games. Man I've wanted to play that game for so long but I'm not buying a copy and I'm a stickler about using the original controller at least. Once I get a flashcart for my Famicom it'll definitely be one of the first games I download though.

[@pokekiller787x]

I played this game and I was expecting something like kirby from the aesthetic but I was wrong. Lmfao

[@newgameaaaa]

There should be a split category. Harest games to beat and hardest to just get past the first level.

[@RainerRitsch]

Ian, I understand your point of view for Super Mario Bros - The Lost Levels, and if I'd play it today I'd probably see it the same way you do, but somehow when I played it as a kid I really enjoyed the grind to finish this game

[@MrJohnlennon007]

Lost Levels is actually very enjoyable

[@djjoel1]

I was the only one of my friends who could do the turbo tunnel. I can probably beat it blindfolded to this day without playing in years, using sound cues only. It was endlessly frustrating to have all of our 2 player mode runs end at the turbo tunnel.

[@54raynor]

Completely agree. The Turbo Tunnel is the most overrated stage in terms of difficulty. I could breeze thru it blindfolded in my younger days.

[@LasekiTF2]

Adventure island 1 on NES will always be the bar none hardest fucking thing i've ever played, shocked it wasn't even mentioned lol

[@Ruudos]

Shredder in the first TMNT is actually one of the easiest bosses to beat on NES.

[@TheMikeyb86]

Get the high ground. He jumps up and you knock him back. Boom, he's dead.

[@bruceaskew2107]

The scrolls make it super easier

[@retroofthefuture]

Battletoads is the best game on the NES! It was my second video game I bought with my own money when it came out, and yes it was difficult, but being 10 years old at the time, I came home from school after finishing my homework, I would play it for hours on end till I mastered it. I've filmed the whole game and beat it without cutting anything out. Anyone that wants to see it all the way through, go check it out on my channel. Love the podcast guys, keep it going.

[@AxelAlexK]

I will probably never beat it but having watched people complete it, it looks like such an awesome game. They should have just allowed infinite continues though like castlevania, it was already plenty hard enough lol.

[@1337owers]

As a 10 year dutch kid playing Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves spanish version. Why a dutch toystore would sell a Spanish version. No idea.

[@TIN_Tevlev]

Pat and Ian should make their own list, yes tier list content

[@DavidRomigJr]

I’ve beaten Kid Icarus multiple times. The thing that drove me nuts was if the password resumes you on 1-1, it zeroed out everything, progress, score, strength, endurance. What’s the first thing I did after beating Medusa? After the game picked back up on 1-1, I killed myself to get the password and take a break. The password obviously had my progress, but when I entered it, all gone. This did lead me later to crack Kid Icarus’s password system, but by the time I did, I was no longer interested in playing for a high score.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

wow, that blows, this is why Kid Icarus needs a S-ram hack.

[@aidanb4477]

@@UltimateGamerCC The Famicom Disk version has a save feature, but obviously that isn't really as accesible to most people.

[@DavidRomigJr]

To be clear, the password does save your progress, even when you wrap around to 1-1, it is encoded, but when you resume on 1-1, it always resets all progress. It doesn’t matter if it was saved to disk or SRAM, they’d be the same. It’s the resume code that wipes your progress if you resume from 1-1. I don’t know if the Japanese version suffers this bug or not. But I assume it was missed in play testing in the U.S. at least as progress is only saved when you finish a stage and the first play through of 1-1 wouldn’t have any progress- it’s why when you die on the first play though of 1-1, the password is always blank (except for the random byte and the checksum). They would have had to tested dying on 1-1 during the second (or subsequent) play though and writing down and entering the password to notice. The progress reset is almost certainly the same code that clears progress on a new game. You can get out of this bad state by chance the stage byte of the password to any other stage, such as 1-2, and then updating the checksum byte. However, that’s not something your average player is going to know how to do.

[@aidanb4477]

@@DavidRomigJr Oh interesting. I was gonna say it sounded like something that could be worked around with the password system.

[@messu22]

I'm surprised Adventure island is not on that list. I've beaten Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania and Mega man (without the exploit) on multiple occasions, but AI beats them by far. I think most people play through the first couple of worlds and think that the rest of the game will be as easy. Try going through world 8 without hammers. Had to quit after DAYS of tries.

[@Svankmajer]

People tend to forget Adventure Island because its cute and pretty easy in the beginning, but you're right. Ninja Gaiden, at least the first one, is many times easier to beat than Adventure Island.

[@arkanoidaddict2125]

I really like Bayou Billy and Battletoads. Nes Qbert took me two months two months to beat That game was so much fun despite the difficulty.

[@Nilakanthanataraja]

Mega Man 1, Contra 1, Blaster Master, and Castlevania 1 should not be nowhere near that list. There are far more difficult games not mentioned that should take the place of these four games.

[@BryanX64]

Can't speak on Blaster Master as I could never beat it but Mega Man 1 and Contra definitely don't belong here. Castlevania 1 maybe, but Castlevania 3 is far more difficult IMO.

[@JoypadDivison]

I agree. But what about Fester's Quest and especially Rygar, the US version is a joke, while the EU version is brutal. Some games obviously show up on lists like this because of how well known they are and also that people who make the lists look at already existing lists and repeats a lot of it.

[@drgnfire4]

Silver Surfer gave me such a rage

[@theconsolekiller7113]

Difficulty is one of my favorite topics. Good shit. It really depends how you’re rating the difficulty. I beat Rygar recently and gameplay wise it was extremely easy and very forgiving but I could see it being very hard if you have no idea what you’re supposed to do since a lot of those games are cryptic. I used a guide. When I think of really hard games I think of games that are really hard because of the actual gameplay and execution. The way I see it is you can easily come across information from another source, but getting the skill or memorization neccesary can take much longer. The arcade Rygar and some of the home ports are much harder since they are pure twitchy action gameplay. Rygar for NES has tons of checkpoints and no sections are hard execution wise once you know the general movement and positioning. Its figuring out some of the cryptic bullshit that would prevent most players from winning, not the actual moment to moment gameplay. Ninja Gaiden 3 was tough. That was one I completed recently. The actual execution wasnt too bad for me, its all the memorization. I would actually practice most of the levels to warm up before doing my legit attempts, each time to keep my memory fresh. That helped save some time. Forgetting small details really punishes you with the limited continues. One of the harder NES games I completed out of the 200 or so I beat. NG 3 gave me the most trouble of the 3 games. NG1 initially gave me trouble until I practice that middle boss form (final trio). Once I had that part down I was able to get back there and finish the game off. NG 2 gave me the least trouble. Atleast those 2 games have infinite continues. The first one sends you way too far back though, if you fuck up on the final bosses. Its just a waste of time. The third game I found much harder with the limited continues. I could never be bothered to bring the spinning slash to the mid form in NG1 so I stubbornly practice with the regular sword strikes, no subweapons until I got it down. It took some practice to get it into my muscle memory. Its a tough pattern and I could still fuck it up, but eventually broke through. The hardest thing I did on NES was Metal Storm on Expert Mode. That was brutal memorization despite the unlimited continues and short checkpoints. It probably wouldnt be as bad for me now though. I beat it a while ago. Doesnt really count since its not a default difficulty. The base game is very moderate. When I beat Metal Storm expert there were no videos so I hit many brick walls trying to find those paths. Even with heavy save state practice. All playthroughs I do are legit though. Bayou Billy and Snake Rattle N Roll are two I want to complete eventually. I jump around between modern and old platforms when filling out the Kill Lists. Bayou Billy is a game I owned , but it is quite a sloppy feeling game. Battletoads does not interest me too much since I never liked how the game played. Real loose control and rigid memorization type of game. I can appreciate what it tried to do but dont enjoy the game. Mad City is the japanese version of Bayou Billy and I killed it off in 24 minutes. The US version I dont know if I ever beat stage 3. Mad City is alot more fun as a result but it went to the other extreme of being too easy. Good for players who want to enjoy the game though. Punchout is really only hard because of that last boss. Definately one of the hardest boss fights on a default difficulty in a game. The rest of the game is really not that bad. Ive heard 1943 mentioned as being harder than Battletoads, but for me it wasnt that bad to beat. Definately tough at points but when you really hate playing a game its 20 times harder. When I completed Jim Power for SNES it was even more brutal for me because I dreaded even playing the fucking game. Where as when I beat the harder Super Smash TV (super intense twitchy game as opposed to memorization) it was much more managable for me. I actually enjoyed playing that game (mostly). Perspective is huge when it comes to that too. Some players are also just more skilled at certain types of games or even specific sections of a game. It can really vary. Friday The 13th doesnt seem too bad if you know what the fuck is going on. I think thats the main issue. Even with a guide I have yet to put it together, ha ha. Very confusing. The actual gameplay doesnt seem tough execution wise. Castlevania gets mentioned alot but its really not THAT bad compared to some of the other NES games. The main sticking point for me was that fuckin reaper, like alot of players. Once you get past that its really not bad. It really has ONE hard part, to me atleast. Frankenstein usually fucks with me too, but not like the reaper. Castlevania 3 was much harder but even that I wouldnt rank in the top 20. I think players also forget the massive amount of games on the NES that play like complete shit and are brutally difficult for that reason alone, nevermind the good and great games that are very hard. Double Dragon 3 wasnt as bad as it initially seemed. The key is to unlock those other characters. After the first stage you have a few characters that serve as extra lives to fall back on. Practicing these games with save states is really useful to speed up the process, otherwise you get very inefficient practice. Efficient practice to me is never cheating. To master anything its always good to practice in segments. Back then we didnt have that option. With DD3 you need to really master the special attack (varies depending on character, but same move execution). If you can spam that move and learn some basic patterns the game goes down pretty easily. One trick is to set both B and A to turbo and hold them both down. This will spam the specials. Otherwise you have to be good at timing it right and the slowdown can throw that timing off. SMB Lost Levels was much easier on the SNES version, which was the version I beat years back in Super Mario All Stars. The main difference with the famicom disk version is having to start at the first section of each world when you continue. In the SNES port you start at the last section. That makes a huge difference. Still I think there are many shitty playing games that could easily fill out the first 20 games and more. Zelda 2 is definately challenging but no where near top 20 for me. There are some tough sections but the hardest NES games can be brutal. From what Ive seen of Cobra Triangle that might be up there. It gets tough to say when theres so many shitty games that are hard to even control properly or have other major issues. Contra I find WAY fuckin overrated difficulty wise. Its a moderately difficult NES game at most. Compared to the average NES game. With a little practice its really not that hard. One of the easier in the series along with Super C. You get plenty of 1 ups through the course of the game. The sections arent too hard to learn if your willing to practice each stage individually first. Mega Man series I put in the same category. Challenging but nothing extreme. I still dont have enough time in Battletoads but from what I played I could see it being up near the top. Its a combo of the trial and error heavy gameplay and the very loose control. I could never get into it. Love brutal challenges but some games dont click for me. Brutal games await on many other platforms though. NES is only a small slice. One of the most brutal old games I completed on the channel was Gun.Smoke for arcade. I made a tutorial here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJnOd52tjbSJqJI If anyone read this far they may find it entertaining. I play through extreme modes in modern games as well. Really enjoy the variety.

[@benjaminyoung9694]

Your passion was sadly wasted in the comments of this channel. This is just not a channel for discussing game play by any means. You got a stream?

[@theconsolekiller7113]

@@benjaminyoung9694 Appreciate the feedback brother !! Just fuckin around. I enjoy the topic and had some time to kill. While I dont stream I have around 1000 playthroughs Ive completed on the channel since 2017 and over 100 tutorial/commentary playthroughs. Im not good with schedules so never got into streaming. I usually add the commentary after the playthroughs are completed and break everything down. Prior to 2017 I played through the same amount of games but no real ability to record. This channel is mainly about completing a high volume of games ranging from very easy to extreme from all time periods. Really like the variety. Feel free to check it out and let me know if theres any games youre interested in. Do you stream or post up playthroughs?

[@Fluoride_Jones]

@@theconsolekiller7113 Just read through your comment, and you seem to really know what you're talking about! You have a new subscriber, sir.

[@theconsolekiller7113]

@@Fluoride_Jones Appreciate you taking the time to read !! Always enjoy discussing games, especially difficulty, so feel free to comment any time. If you enjoy difficult playthroughs theres quite a few on the channel currently and over 100 commentary tutorials.

[@Fluoride_Jones]

@@theconsolekiller7113 I saw that, and thank you! I'll definitely be checking some out this weekend! I've never been good at video games, truth be told, but I've always like them. In fact, for my 43rd birthday last month, I went to a retro video game arcade in Roseville, MN. It was an absolute blast, and my brother-in-law and I played through "X-Men!" All the machines were set up fro free plays, it was just $15.00 a head, and we stayed for hours. I noticed, though, I had many of the games on this list, or at least rented them several times, along with a bunch of other games people in the comments section referred to as some of the most difficult NES games, so maybe I wasn't as bad as I thought!

[@aidanb4477]

The game I take the most pride in being able to beat is definitely Castlevania III, and it still takes me hours to get through, and even then I really mean Akumajou Densetsu since I vastly prefer it anyways and it's the version I own. I could definitely beat the US version I'm sure, but it would take me forever to get through.

[@Krendall2]

I've beaten Castlevania III (the US version), though I don't think I ever beat the normal or long path. I always took the short path because I wanted Sypha.

[@JohnVullo]

I never like these lists because they're so surface level. THESE are actually hard NES games but no one talks about, Mutant Virus, Bump n' Jump, To The Earth, Race America, The Last Starfighter, Zanac, ADVENTURE ISLAND. Theres plenty more. Find me 10 people that beat Adventure Island.

[@tigmo55]

Thank you!! I agreed COMPLETELY about the first Adventure Island game. It's a Top 10 (or even a Top 5) hardest NES game in my book!

[@conorneligan7694]

Are you talking Adventure Island with or without continues?

[@jayvictus80]

One of the reasons why some of these games are difficult is if you're playing them on original consoles with LCD tvs...there is a timing delay which can make or break your game

[@retroking1981]

Double Dragon III is another that comes to mind.

[@lukesmith9692]

One life like real life

[@midwestmonster9886]

I've beaten three out of four games in the thumbnail. Battletoads is one I made it halfway through before giving up on. My cartridge stopped working so I'll have to replace it if ever I want a rematch.

[@AxelAlexK]

Unless I missed it I'm surprised Adventure Island was not mentioned at all.

[@michaelwallace9461]

Interesting difference is games that are too hard to enjoy or really get into versus games that, while too hard to ever finish, are not so hard early on that you notice the difficulty in a short session or when dipping in. RTS games like total annihilation is a great example of the latter - great fun and really enjoyable for the first 10 levels or so then gets sooo hard.

[@tupalev]

Hey Pat - this is the no hit TMNT run: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHjLYp-KrdKfjs0 . The runner Slackanater is someone I follow on Twitch - he worked on this one for a while, I was thrilled to see him complete the run (finally)!

[@KeithPhillips]

That one is up there with the Ninja Gaiden damageless run!

[@ilikeme1234]

Contra has a fun, fair and rewarding challenge. It’s definitely not one of the toughest games on the NES. It is one of the best though. I agree that the thirty life code skews perception by allowing people to run through it without getting better at it. I feel it would have been much better to be a 30 Continue code. That way you still have to learn the patterns and adjust game play to beat the game with more attempts before you get the hard game over screen.

[@buff985]

Dragon's Lair is one of the hardest I've played, but only because of how broken it is.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

only play the Arcade game, rest of the versions need only be destroyed.

[@Dadaph]

As for Rygar, you Americans got it easy. The European version, caps exp at 1024 instead of 4096. Other than that, same game. I knew a guy who spent 20 years defeating his childhood cartridge.

[@rezterralico4369]

Yeah played it on switch in Canada and Rygar was not that hard.

[@MarshallFlores]

Re: Castlevania, the Grim Reaper is tough especially if you're not using triple shot + either holy water or the Cross. But I wouldn't say he's tougher than first form Dracula, whose movement patterns are pretty (frustratingly) random and damaging him is far more timing-based. CV3 overall is more difficult than CV1 (although if you can master Sypha she's a one-person wrecking crew), but both the Grim Reaper and Drac are easier lol.

[@chicawe]

I never beated Dracula in the first castlevania. Grimreaper is hard too but i can beat it

[@BoboBreez]

I was on the final boss on Castlevania 3 for a long time then I tried syphilis and found out the final boss was way easier with her!

[@UltimateGamerCC]

gotta have the cross, it's mandatory.

[@cheesoboy2]

Agree on Contra. I think it was so popular that a lot more fairweather gamers played it and remembered it being hard, but there's definitely harder, more obscure games. I've picked up Contra and Super C cold after not playing them for years and have beaten them without cheat codes or even a continue. I actually like that they are playable without memorization of the entire levels. Contrast this with Life Force, also by Konami but far less known, which was waaaaaaay harder and you basically have to die repeatedly to learn/dodge the various trolling... even then, wow is it hard.

[@BryanX64]

Super C is definitely harder IMO

[@54raynor]

Just the opposite. So many people remember this game being easier than it was because they’ve never played it without the Konami Code. Playing it with just the 3 lives is incredibly tough. I personally found Super C to be the easier game because the flame thrower was an actual good alternative to the spread gun.

[@giacatnguyen9635]

It's nice to see someone pointing out the real problem with Battletoads. The Turbo Tunnel indeed wasn't the problem. The problem was that, starting with Turbo Tunnel, every stage required a lot of memorization, they were all different, and you couldn't just practice the stage you wanted to get good at. In that sense, Turbo Tunnel was actually pretty easy, because everything before it was simple and could be bypassed without really breaking a sweat, so getting back to try again was not such a chore. If you wanted to get good at the elevator shaft or Clinger Winger or the level with all the pipes, you had to get through all the earlier stages first, and you probably weren't in the proper groove by that point.

[@limitedseal7333]

Solomon’s Key period, bet on it. People sleep on this title and it’s their loss if they don’t want to look into it. Took me longer to beat Solomon’s key at 84(best score possible) than castlevania 1 2 and 3, ninja gaiden, Bucky o’hare, ghosts n goblins, batman, or megaman 1. Only close 2nd is the 1st and original ninja turtles. Random luck towards the end with finding the technodrome before you lose a turtle or two, or all of them. Then good luck, hope you have scrolls.

[@Svankmajer]

Yeah, Solomon's Key would be on my top 10 too.

[@newgameaaaa]

Yeah there are so many extremely difficult NES games. I haven't beat any that you mentioned. Maybe one day I'll try them with codes and see how far I can get.

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

They're pretty much alll very difficult to impossible

[@GreenDragonPainting]

Gun.smoke is pretty tough without a turbo button. Great game

[@peterashori109]

I always thought as a 9 year old kid that the stage 3 (Indians) was very! difficult in that game.

[@zackschilling4376]

I though Ian would appreciate SMB 2 J cuz it proved him right about the mushroom.

[@skelingaton1833]

Adventure of Link is pretty fair in its difficulty and probably wouldn't make my top 50 in hardest NES games. Kid Icarus has a reverse difficulty curve. The beginning of the game is tough but it gets a lot easier in the later levels. A lot of other difficult games that didn't get a mention. Bill & Ted, Al Unser Jr, Street Fighter 2010, and Adventure Island.

[@GD-tt6hl]

The mechanic in Kid Icarus you need to learn is pressing up keeps Kid from floating to a stop, he just stops dead. So if you press up on a jump you hit the landing with no floating movement when you land.

[@Deathmetallad]

Gun.Smoke is harder than all these. As well as Blaster Master. BM is my all-time favorite NES game and I've beaten it dozens of times but I STILL have trouble with the Lobster Boss and the final stage and bosses.

[@peterashori109]

I agree with you that Gun.Smoke was hard game on Nes particularly stage 3 (Indians). However the stage music on this game Is wow! one of the best by Capcom.

[@buckit7837]

The konomi code gives you continues in tmnt. And their is a way you change the code at the end it lets you level select

[@chaospoet]

Mike Tyson's Punch Out is the one game that makes me wish (kinda) KZbin existed in the late 80s early 90s. I had that game memorized to the point where I could get to King Hippo with the TV turned off. That was me as a kid. I tried it after like years of not playing it and got knocked out by Don Flamingo to my eternal shame. Honestly I found Super Macho Man way harder than Tyson. I usually had to use the code to go straight to Tyson because I only managed to beat Super Macho Man twice and both times it was a war of attrition where one more hit and I'd have lost. Probably the most underrated hardest boss in all of gaming because he's over shadowed by Mike Tyson.

[@Schush]

Snk Athena needs to be mentioned... Honorable mentions: Super Pitfall, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Ubisoft's Last Crusade

[@edgarfriendly4731]

Battletoads is awesome. It is the pinnacle of gaming. It's my favorite nes game. Some people love the challenge.

[@worldsheaviestjamband93]

I’d be interested to see a top 20 hardest game when they were first released (and without guides). Zelda 2 is way harder when you’re just trying to figure out where the hell everything is.

[@MrJholshouser41]

I never thought death Mt was all that hard. And If you save your lives til the end it's much more manageable

[@Krendall2]

@@MrJholshouser41 Doing that isn't always that simple. A tough random encounter in the wrong spot could drain most of your health or take one of your lives before you even get to the final level.

[@Krendall2]

I almost guarantee Metroid would get on the list that way.

[@digitalworms]

On Zelda 2 I found out is if you level your attack to 4 first then start leveling everything, then go to each castle only for the treasure room by time you get everything then go to each castle and when you defeat each boss it automatically levels you up once and by time your done you will be maxed out on all stats! Speeds up leveling progress a lot!

[@trevorwilliams3105]

Battletoads is very difficult but it's also a great game. By the time you're good enough to consistently make it to the last few levels/beat the game, the turbo tunnel becomes a cake walk that you beat first try every time. While I get what Ian means by calling it "a mess" because of all the level variety, it's all done well especially by nes standards and other titles are praised for their level variety, graphics and music are great, this is a top 20 nes game easily for me. A true classic

[@54raynor]

Level 11 is the tough level in Battletoads. I can breeze thru the first 10 levels, and the Tower in the 12th level isn’t particularly difficult with some practice. But I’ve never gotten even halfway thru level 11. The Orb you are racing is faster than you, and there are no checkpoints throughout the entire course. The only way to win is to hit the corner turns perfectly, which I never figured out how to do consistently.

[@chuckelator]

Friday the 13th isn't hard once you understand it. It becomes EASY. Used to speed run it. Jason only has two routes through the map...and if you figure that out, you don't have to EVER face Jason inside a cabin.

[@GD-tt6hl]

And if you get good, beating him in the cabin can become easier than people realize. Outside you have to take hits, inside you don't. You learn his speed and patterns down+left down+right to dodge it become trivial to beat him.

[@chuckelator]

@@GD-tt6hl on day 3 it can be tricky in the cabins, but I mostly agree with ya there. And the big trick, is getting the torch on day 1. 😉

[@tigmo55]

Great discussion guys! I couldn't agree more with Battletoads claiming the #1 spot. It took me 10+ years to finally beat that sucker and I feel that it took part of my soul in the process! Funny enough I actually love playing that game today but only because I have enough experience to know what's coming (and how to handle the various challenges in the game). Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man, and Blaster Master all belong here too. And Ghosts 'n Goblins...holy cow. I beat that game once and I will NEVER play it again. Satan himself programmed that one! As far as games not included in this list go, I'm surprised that Life Force wasn't mentioned. Beating that game without the 30 man code is a challenge for sure!

[@Fluoride_Jones]

+tigmo55 Admittedly, I've never played "Life Force," but it's interestingthat it has a 30-man cheat code, like "Contra." I had "Gradius" as a kid, and it had a "Konami code," but all it did was start you off with all the power-ups. Needless to say, that didn't help me get too far into the game. I could never even come close the beating that sucker!

[@Matt-Rat]

I've beat some hard NES games myself. Here's my list of every NES game I defeated: Battletoads (With a warp and lots of research. They need to make level 3 a test for drivers. That would be hilarious, wouldn't it?) Adventures of Bayou Billy (Took me many tries but I finally did it.) Silver Surfer (Beat this 3 times. I don't call it bad. I call it decent because the controls are okay and one song is pretty good.) TMNT (Technodrome is the hardest level) Ninja Gaiden 1-3 (Third is the hardest because of limited continues. 1st game is tough but I can beat it easily thanks to some practice.) Street Fighter 2010 (Last level is insane.) Zelda 2 (With a guide) Contra, Super C and Contra Force Castlevania 1-3 Marble Madness (One chance is not easy.) Dick Tracy (With a guide mostly on the last mission) Mike Tyson's Punch Out (Tyson was merciless. I didn't quit. I had to take him down.) Yo Noid (One hit and you lose a life.) Adventure Island (With a continue code.) Fester's Quest (I used a turbo button.) Batman The Video Game (Not an easy one but I call it a favorite of mine.) Ghost's N Goblins (I admit I used a level skip to go back to the 2nd quest since I beat the 1st quest. Other than that, I beat that hell of level 6.)

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

Ghosts n goblins in one sitting would be hell lol

[@JBird401]

You also take double damage in the US version of Ninja Gaiden 3. The famicom version is way easier

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

@@JBird401 reminds me of contra hard corps

[@JBird401]

@@DanielRivera-on5qh yea Contra Hard Corps is the same way but they just give you more health. Ninja Gaiden you take double damage unless you play 3 on the snes trilogy or the japanese version

[@andyauthor2007]

Another game that should be on this list is Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight. I did beat that one back in the day but that game is brutal! The Adventures of Bayou Billy should not be on any of these top hardest NES lists because that game is just plain unfair. The other games on this list are at least fair for the most part, but Bayou Billy should not be given recognition for anything because that game is the very definition of unfair. I beat Tyson several times back in the day. I think people are having trouble with that game these days because everyone is playing this on emulation of some kind and that is going to introduce some kind of input lag. To beat Tyson you have to be playing on authentic hardware because even the minimalist amount of input lag and you're done. ANY kind of emulation and it's impossible.

[@MSUHitman]

I would like to nominate Final Fantasy 1 to replace one of those games. Having the magic be a D&D level system where you can only cast a few spells per level until you rest, unlike the MP system that became the prominent system in video games, makes the dungeons insanely difficult as you can’t just not use magic users as you won’t be able to beat the bosses w/o access to magic. Any other version of FF 1 that isn’t the NES version is always what I recommend to someone asking how to play FF 1 for the first time.

[@marccaselle8108]

I agree I am partial to the GBA remake of FF 1 and 2. You can use magic more liberally and not have to conserve every bit of magic, like the OG NES version. The NES version pretty much makes you use the peninsula of power to level up and get 1000 to 3000 gold to buy anything.

[@kidomniman8635]

I feel like Ghostbusters 2 doesn't get the recognition it deserves for difficulty. It isn't a very fun game but the difficulty is there in the final levels. With limited continues and having to get all 4 Ghostbusters through the museum at the end it took me a long time to beat. Not as long as Battletoads but longer than Ninja Gaiden 3. Contra really shouldn't be on the list here either. I could beat that game without the code when I was a kid. One hit deaths make it hard but it is very fair in the patterns it throws at you.

[@phaserlift]

GOLGO 13: TOP SECRET EPISODE IS BY FAR ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT GAMES EVER FOR THE NES...51 continues and still super hard. Totally overlooked...

[@graveyardgary4482]

I like how Ian starts shaking after he started the list with the number one game 😂

[@johnnyglenn2692]

I wish ppl discussed deeper into the library games on these kinda channels. No Seicross, no Kung Fu Heroes, no Life Force, No Stinger, no Bucky O'Hare, Cobra Triangle, Darkwing Duck, Clash At Demon head, New Ghostbusters 2, no Gunsmoke, no Little Nemo etc etc same ol' games talked to death

[@zackschilling4376]

All bets are off after I seen someone beat Monster Hunter World without getting hit, then theres the one guy who beat Demon Souls, Dark Souls 1-2-3, Bloodborne and Sekiro, one after another without getting hit ONCE! Thats crazy. My only question is "No Kings Field 1,2 and 4?" I know its technically part of the series, but play KF IV, and you should cuz its an amazing game, and tell me the thing doesnt reek of Souls, just in first person.

[@DavidRomigJr]

I’ve beaten TMNT normally, but needed the code to beat Contra. Contra is hard, but it’s a “good hard”. The bullet hell is a bit much but you can learn it- I just didn’t bother to do it normally… I think. TMNT is a “punishing hard”. It can be done, but you need to grind at times and take it slow at times to beat. I used to know where many of the pizza, weapons, and turtle rescue points were. I didn’t always have scrolls, but I needed them for the final Technodrome hallway- the enemy gen is ridiculous and they are all hard enemies- if I lost them, I might as well start over. Before NES, there were “impossible hard” games and they were no fun. NES at least brought some quality control to games, even if they were still tweaking it.

[@JBird401]

Contra isn't hard and it's short. I beat it with the code a couple times and then had no problem beating it without the code. Just need to hold onto the spread shot and it's practically a cake walk

[@BoomstickAsh]

I would also create a separate list between “hard” & “cheap”. Some NES games like Castlevania are hard, but if you’re willing to put the time in, it becomes manageable and incredibly fun. Then there are ridiculously cheap games like Battletoads that will make you wanna break your controller.

[@Krendall2]

The problem with trying to judge the hardest NES games is what kind of criteria is being used? A lot of NES games are hard because they're poorly designed, something that's usually called fake difficulty. Do you want to count fake difficulty or do you only count what was legitimately designed to be that difficult? For example, Pat mentioned Bionic Commando at the end. Yes, that is a very difficult game, but it's also a very good game. He also mentioned Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Also a very difficult game, but that's mostly because the game is horribly made.

[@dickbutt42069]

Ian's intro to the list was funny ngl

[@TheLadsBandLive]

I grew up with the NES and somehow never played Punch-Out. I just tried it last week on my Switch and couldn’t get past Glass Joe… Fucking Glass Joe… Fuck.

[@rezterralico4369]

Lol. Damn.

[@TheLadsBandLive]

@@rezterralico4369 - I didn’t know about the Star Punch and lost by decision even though I knocked him down 4 or 5 times.

[@ilikeme1234]

What makes Battletoads so bad is if it had a fair difficulty, it would be one of the best games on the system. The first couple stages before the Turbo Tunnels are great. It’s one of the best beat ‘em ups on the system, but it’s pure BS after that. The snake tube level is actually pretty decent, but good luck getting there without game genie.

[@denofcool]

It was refueling the plane mid-flight that always got me in top gun

[@cardboardorigins]

The final level of castlevania 3 is the reason why it's much harder than the first game

[@nickp6498]

Why isn’t Gradius here? I’ve been trying to beat it and it’s probably the hardest game I’ve ever attempted to beat. It’s absolute insanity.

[@northofnashira2575]

Can we get your opinions on 8-bit Christmas next week? I've watched it twice already and I think it's the new A Christmas Story. Definitely a must watch for any child of the 80s.

[@handfulofbits]

Thank you for this. I had no idea about this movie.

[@northofnashira2575]

@@handfulofbits Enjoy... my only issues were with the film they used, it's a little cold and could use more color, the bully casting could have been better, and the dad casting is questionable but he did well in the important parts, not meaning NPH, he was fantastic.

[@handfulofbits]

I watched the trailer and I agree with all of the above. I'm excited to watch. Thank you again.

[@jeffmoen8563]

Yeah the bully was the worst part to me. I found him more annoying and out of place.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

8-Bit Christmas looks more up my alley than A Christmas Story, i watched that movie and i dont get what the hype is about, the damn kid was told that he was gonna shoot his eye out and guess what, he shot his eye out right away! had he not been wearing glasses he'd want an eyepatch for next christmas.

[@Krushak8888]

I had to practice top gun but as a kid when i was 7 to get it... but what i found out cause i played it recently you knnow you can hold a or b to speed up or down? I thoufht yoy had to tap it

[@JimmyRaptis]

Rygar is hard on the PAL version because of the glitch that stops levelling you up.

[@arkanoidaddict2125]

Yea Pat and Ian probably don't know that

[@KillStraighty]

I've beaten every one of those games many times. Legacy of the Wizard was harder for me than any of the games on this list.

[@redmist78]

To me there's games that are hard and then there's games that are poorly developed which makes them hard. A lot of the early games were poorly developed.... Which made them hard but games like ghosts and goblins were made hard on purpose.

[@GD-tt6hl]

There are game that are hard, but fair, and there are games that are hard and unfair.

[@cheesoboy2]

On one of the GDQs there's a dude who, from a stretch goal, played the Battletoads Turbo Tunnel blindfolded, and if I recall, beat it although he still lost several lives. I similarly only beat that level a handful of times as a kid, but never reliably, and I think I only managed to beat the subsequent level once or twice... and that's as far as I got. Still haven't beat the game even as an adult.

[@martindiormachate5500]

For me hard games are the ones that if you play it again for the 100th time it still has the ability to fuck you up.

[@KyleBogdanMusic]

Battletoads is the G.O.A.T. of nes games. Incredible game that only gets knocked down by people because of its legendary difficulty. Get good and it's the most fun and rewarding game on nes.

[@midwestmonster9886]

I have Ninja Gaiden Trilogy on SNES. That version of Ninja Gaiden III has unlimited continues. I tried playing by the honor system (3 lives, 4 continues) until I made it to the final level. There was one jump which took me 16 tries to make. If I'd played with limited continues, I never would have beaten that game.

[@almightycinder]

They increased the difficulty on those games because they didn't want kids to beat it during a rental. Rentals were (don't know if they still are) illegal in Japan, so they didn't need to worry about it over there.

[@megadan2988]

can i just tell ya im pretty sure im about to order a CERTAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SNES Guide book………… that CERTAIN!!!!!!!! one !!! lol good vid btw loved the talk.

[@worldsheaviestjamband93]

Also I agree that Contra isn’t a top 10. I’ve never beaten any of these games on the original system… However I have beaten Contra without losing a life.

[@napalmhardcore]

I don't remember how long ago it was, but I think it was around five years ago that I started really getting back into retro games from the early consoles/computers. I remember thinking: "Damn! Modern games have made me soft!". I was born in 1983, so I grew up playing tough games (though I didn't own a NES as a kid), but as time went on I mostly played contemporary games (occasionally I'd go back as far as games from the mid-late '90s at most). When I was a kid, I admittedly didn't finish many games. I played for instant gratification and when I got either bored or too frustrated, I'd stop playing and do something else. It's only in recent years I've gone in with the goal of beating games and it was an eye opener for me just how punishing some of them are. Of the games discussed here I've beat (without cheats/save states, on a MiSTer FPGA) Castlevania, Contra, Ninja Gaiden and Bionic Commando. I beat Mega Man a few years ago on an emulator, but I don't count it because I used save states. I also beat Ghosts 'n' Goblins, but on Amiga not NES. I've not played the NES version yet, so I don't know how it compares, but there's a trade-off between the Amiga version and the arcade (which I've not beat but probably will). The arcade version is faster but on the Amiga you can't turn and fire in the opposite direction when you jump which makes it really challenging when things get hectic in the later levels. The big issue I have with some older games (and the NES library has a few of these) is when they employ convoluted, obtuse BS that either hinders or outright prevents you from completing the game. Things like: Let you get to the end of a game and then inform you you've failed because you didn't get a particular thing or a certain amount of things. Making an enemy near impossible to beat unless you use a particular weapon when it's not logical that the weapon in question would be particularly effective against that enemy. Allowing you to choose which order you take on levels but making it near impossible if you don't do it in a particular order. Having screens that loop unless you choose the correct sequence of doors/exits (especially if it's late in the game when you're struggling just to stay alive). Expecting you to know to perform an action in a certain location (perhaps while having a certain item equipped) or interact with a random piece of scenery without having set a precedent throughout the game or giving sufficient clues. I used to have a strict no spoiler/guides/walkthrough policy, but I've had to abandon that while going through the NES library. I've spent too many hours figuratively bashing my head against a wall only to give in and look at a guide, see the solution and then internally scream "HOW THE HELL WAS I SUPPOSED TO FIGURE THAT OUT!?". It's a shame because I hate having to look at a guide to complete a game, but due to my past experience with NES games, I'm more likely to do it more quickly now. My concern is that I'll end up looking at guides for situations I could figure out on my own because I don't know if I'm wasting my time trying to do it without a guide.

[@danfors1333]

Punchout on old CRT monitor is much easier than on modern monitors. Quicker response time. Super Machoman I found harder than Tyson because you have to get into right rythm to avoid the spin punching. With Tyson only quick reaction is needed. Two games I found very hard but eventually beat were Bart vs the Space Mutants and Days of Thunder.

[@mikeall7012]

Soda popinski still ruins me to this day. That little shimmy you have to to do tests the limits of my terrible coordination.

[@bbernard1981]

Kid Icarus was soooooooo hard, it crushed me as a kid

[@matthillman8728]

Not counting Duck Hunt and Gyromite-- my first NES game was Ghosts and Goblins. I was surprised to see it so high on so many lists. I couldn't win both playthroughs. As a matter of fact I don't think I even tried. I was so pissed when Satan snatched my lady again.

[@unchi1999]

Still better than my friggin GTA PS2 experience (Especially GTA III) where i had endless amount of problems such as NPC's only listening whenever they feel like it, Dying sooooo many times just to see the lovely "Wasted!" on my screen, Failing a mission in such a bullshit and very unfair way, Cars getting flipped over, A cheat doesn't work at random for no reason even when i typed it right to a goddamn fucking T, Gangs shoot you for no reason, Mods don't work and either nothing happens or the game crashes. Oh i could go on and write a book about on how these games caused me severe anger issues as a teenager at 13-15.

[@retrogamerfan123]

I remember as a kid playing ghostbusters on the nes at a friends house we could never get past the tower climb later I used a game genie to beat the game and said that’s it man was I pissed

[@JustinEvitable80]

Games on list I have or can beat: Kid Icarus, Castlevania, Double Dragon 3, Blaster Master, Castlevania 3 (but with HELP ME code and not in one sitting), Megaman, TMNT, Ninja Gaiden and as for Zelda 2, that game is a cakewalk for me and can usually beat it without dying once. Games on list I have not beaten: Ninja Gaiden 3, Fester's Quest, Punch-Out, Contra and Ghosts & Goblins. Anything else mentioned I have not played

[@frishdawgz]

Why does Ian struggle so much with a basic list? Shotskis

[@NateB1976]

Dang Pat!!!! After hearing what you said about this game I can tell you’re someone who has spent a lot of time playing Bayou Billy. And I don’t mean just because you did that episode with James on it(+Punisher). You know what you know about the game because you played it very much. Word.

[@RunplaysinHD]

Well, top 20 hardest nes games should mean that you played almost all the NES games. You cannot make top 20 nes games by playing only 40 or 60 games in total, this would be absurd. Mario 3 or Castlevania 3 are the hardest nes games? Oh, really? Did you ever play hundreds of japanese obscure games? Because if you did, you would never ever again say that Mario 3 is hard. Just believe me. There are plenty of really hard obscure games, even if we take only american releases. Did you ever try to play Dragon Strike? Well, try to beat it. Then play Mario 3 again just to see how wrong you were. Then play Adventures of Captain Comic to see what a torture is. And I would love to see you beating James Bond Jr on Hard, because thats the only way to beat it, or try to beat all 100 levels of Lemmings without any guide, and im sure that you will absolutely love early rpgs like Might and Magic, Bard's Tale or first Final Fantasies where even a single moster could kill you in 1 hit and you will be thrown back at the town and have to replay 30-60 minutes again.

[@crazyjohnt8012]

IMO NGIII is WAAAAAAY harder than the original and Super C is quite a bit more challenging than Contra

[@JBird401]

NG3 is only harder because in the US version you take double damage. The japanese version is way easier

[@xxHUNGRY4THETRUTHxx]

Gradius! Why hasn't Gradius ever been included to any hardest NES game party? Even with the Konami code that game still hands me my ass. Yet I've beaten Contra without the 30 lives code. And also Arkanoid. Can't even get half-way without using the infinite lives code.

[@RealJeffTidwell]

Pat: I hate when you have to die to learn the game. Not a Souls guy, I take it?

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

Man like all old games are "try and die"

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

I love hard games. Can't stand Dark Souls. Just not a type of hard for me. I've played and enjoyed much harder, but it's just not my thing.

[@NESADDICT]

Battle roads ninja gaiden 1&3 and ghost and goblins are good hard games. All of which I have at least beat once. MegaDan29 is the greatest though.

[@ELEKTROSKANSEN]

Battle Roads sounds like an awesome game that never got made.

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

I prefer nes battletoads on genesis

[@KeithPhillips]

I don't agree with much of the list, but wanted to throw The Immortal out there. That game is rough!

[@RyuHayabusa06]

Bayou Billy, Battletoads, Ghosts N Goblins. Dino Riki deserves a mention. Friday the 13th isn't that hard. Ninja Gaiden 3 is hard as hell. I could finish 1+2 on one life but not 3.

[@InfiniCalendar]

TMNT was hard as hell. Didn't even get past the dam until I was an adult.

[@rezterralico4369]

Beat the damn at a friends place when I was 15 years old. Never owned the cart and kicking myself for not getting it on the wii for 6 bucks. Ubisoft had the licence for TMNT for the time and only charged 1 dollar extra for the fee.

[@jrjefferson01]

i beat blaster master as a kid after i found out about the odd number boss grenade trick