Sega Saturn - 25 Years Later - What Went Wrong?

What went wrong with the Sega Saturn? We look back at what happened 25 years after the console's release.
✅FULL podcast available @cupodcast.podbean.com
✅More info@ / cupodcast
#segasaturn #gameconsole #sega

[@Archman2312]

Might be a little thing, but I appreciate Ian just flat out saying he's reading from Wiki instead of saying something lame like "in my research".

[@IsaMazutka]

Even tho on wiki someone can write inacurate biased idiotic things too so often you find more accurate information from stock market data dumps and other places if you care to actually research and use common sense then these fanfiction garbage place like wikis. I mean even back in a day 80s and 90s up even until today in the world no one cared for Nintendo all of a sudden these new generations of hipsters and other delusional tards are glorifying it like it contributed anything for generations. Back in a day in europe and related regions no one had a nintendo everyone were on Sega and homebrew tech, famiclones etc later Sony released the PS1 and PS2 which completely wiped out Sega out of the competition and Nintendo once again stood irrelevant. And all those console wars just a fiction. If N64 and failcube sold in some shithole in the world who were naive enough to buy them that doesn't represents the entire world market. Same goes for microsoft's generations of crapboxes. They failed with 360 big time and no one after that will be willing to invest into inferior and overall pointless toxic garbage like xbox is when we have far better alternatives. Sure Switch is portable and might have a bigger library of games then Vita but name me at least one game that is working as intended on it and at least one person who you know that owns a Switch and uses it as a actual portable device to the point they better off bought a PS4 and stick with that. All this Nintendo blowup hype started in 2016 even tho still the most popular new platform was PS4, Nintendo hype had a short wave by hipsters and kids then the hype died out pretty fast especially when the units of Switch were all faulty even the revisions. And this pathetic hype is back again a year ago or so during lockdown where some fabricated again this hype to seek attention. While people in the world don't care. Hell many even quit gaming as a whole anyways. And oh forgot what my friend always points out and is a major factor in all this that PS2 is still the most popular platform worldvide even tho discontiued for a while so this pretty much tells us where the actual quality gaming is stuck at.

[@Gamevet]

@@IsaMazutka Europe! LOL!

[@xflarearcadia1766]

"We do zeros and fives." Smart move, classy!!

[@xflarearcadia1766]

Pat got the "Segaaahhh" in there, it's a requirement.

[@WaysideWade]

All class, no more a s s since the Alisia Dragoon video.

[@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472]

@xflare smart move and classy? Old comment or not, you sound like a jock strap.

[@tedlogan5628]

The book “Console Wars” does a good job of describing the problems Sega of Japan was having in not being focused enough.

[@TheOneTrueFingal]

Correct. Sega of Japan forced Sega of America to move the launch up months from the planned Saturnday. Console Wars is an excellent read.

[@tedlogan5628]

@@Allen.Christian The whole situation was a real head scratcher...Lol. Some people still love the Saturn to this day, but it wasn't ready for prime time like the Playstation and N64.

[@ergheiz83]

Sega of America and Sega of Japan were actively in war against each other, best proof of that is that each division had their own prototype for the Saturn's successor. Sadly, Sega was it's own worst enemy.

[@petewillson205]

Saturn, could of been a hit, but EA, was aligned with 3D0, then sony paid them for exclusivity, Sega didnt have Sonic nor sports games. SOA, stopping support for all of their systems was crazy.

[@ScottCrippen]

Jason Lee playing Hockey on his SEGA Saturn in 'Mallrats' #memories

[@brianparent4023]

Scott Crippen hartford? The whale?!

[@norcalrallyx]

Breakfast Schmeckfest...

[@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou]

The interesting titbit from that scene is Kevin Smith was forced to use this game. He had written a totally different hockey game and even system into the script, but apparently, the studio was able to get some sweet cash for promoting Sega instead. The teams, arena and score were all still presented exactly as scripted though.

[@rhdata05]

It’s a shame of what could have been, it did turn out some gems but not enough to save it

[@guspaz]

There were just so many mistakes, though. Turning down an offer from Sony to partner on a 32-bit console (Sega could have co-developed the Playstation), killing a potential partnership with Silicon Graphics (Sega could have had the hardware that went into the N64 before Nintendo secured it), a bad hardware design (a primarily 2D console that they scrambled to add proper 3D support to mid-development when it became apparent there was no market for a 32-bit 2D console) which led to an overly complicated and difficult to develop for architecture, overpriced (which gave Sony the opportunity to launch a full hundred dollars cheaper, despite Sega originally announcing a $250-300 pricepoint), a rushed and unexpected launch that pissed off both developers and the retail partners, Sega of Japan ignoring and overruling the much more successful Sega of America (who sold nearly 8x more consoles than Sega of Japan), not preparing a game with their own mascot character, launching a stripped-down version of the Saturn hardware a few months early as the 32X, a weak game lineup consisting entirely of first-party games (because third-party developers all targeted the original September launch date and weren't ready for the surprise May release), allocating all their manufacturing capacity to the Saturn at the expense of the Genesis (despite the fact that the Genesis outsold the Saturn even after it launched)... Sony sold more Playstation consoles in the first two days after launch than Sega sold Saturn consoles in the first five months after launch... despite the fact that Sega had the biggest market share in the US games industry, having outsold Nintendo for the 16-bit generation, while Sony was then a complete nobody.

[@gamerguy425]

@@guspaz Damn, the fifth generation was such a climax of gaming history more than I even knew already. Decisions made then shaped the entire console industry afterwards! (also the lack of Sega partnering with Sony reminds me of their later interactions with the Xbox/Dreamcast honestly)

[@madhatter8508]

Oh, there were enough gems to save it. Sega of America just refused to localize them, so those developers all ended up porting those games to the PlayStation because they knew Sony would let them sell their games in America.

[@madhatter8508]

@@guspaz I concede most of your points, but Sega could have made do with the Saturn hardware as it was. It was very powerful, offering some things even the PlayStation couldn't do like infinite plane floors and ceilings and perspective-correct texture mapping. Look at some of the later Saturn games, and the Saturn versions of Shenmue and Virtua Fighter 3. The idea that the Saturn was weaker on 3D than the PlayStation persisted because Sega foolishly ported outdated, flat-shaded games like Virtua Fighter 1 and Virtua Racing to the console. On the Sony side of things, Bernie Stolar was adamant that the PlayStation have only 3D games and only action games while he was at Sony. That created a perception of the PlayStation as a 3D "specialist," but the game lineup suffered until Sony wisely dumped his ass. Unfortunately, Sega took him in, foolishly believing all his lies about the success of the PlayStation being attributable in any way to him, when we all know it was Ken Kuteragi's baby. As far as Saturn's 3D goes, there are western games that do very well with it, like Quake, but for the most part, western developers didn't take the time to master it because Sega didn't manufacture enough consoles to meet demand for the Saturn. They didn't do it because of all the money they wasted on the 32X and other projects, and they lost money on every Saturn sold so if they made enough to meet demand their earnings reports would've been even deeper in the red. That's also why they launched at $400 - a price justifiable if it were backward compatible with the Genesis, but Sega of Japan never considered that an option a the Mega Drive was a failure in Japan. Nakayama and company's unwillingness to meet demand in the early months of the Saturn (in Japan) created a negative feedback loop, in which many developers hesitated to support the Saturn. They would often make the PlayStation version of a game, then release a slapdash Saturn port a year or two later to cash in. Saturn did receive a ton of RPGs, shooters, and puzzle games in Japan, but Sega of America refused to localize them because that idiot Bernie Stolar was stuck on his perception that American gamers only wanted action games. (In 1997, the year of Final Fantasy VII) Sega and Nintendo both turned Sony down on the PlayStation because Sony demanded full royalties on every CD-ROM sold; Nintendo and Sega would only have profited from cartridge games sold on a hybrid CD/cart console. It would have made them third party developers on their own platform, and it was a terrible deal for them as it was structured. That's why Nintendo was so quick to drop and embarrass Sony when their lawyers told them about those clauses in the contract Sony presented. Nintendo today are doing just fine; turning Sony down didn't hurt them. Two out of their last 3 consoles have been the best sellers of their generation. And turning Sony down didn't have to hurt Sega, either - it was Sega's own infighting and the damage it did to their reputation and consumer confidence that hurt Sega. And Sega were right to turn down the N64 hardware in the state it was in back in 1993-1994 when they reviewed it. Nintendo had to delay the N64 by two years to hammer out all the dents in it until they had something stable and ready for manufacturing. The specs greatly improved in those two years, too; Sega weren't given a 95 MHz R4000 w/ a 62 MHz GPU in 1993 or 1994. It was probably closer to the eventual PlayStation specs, and Nakayama never wanted a MIPS CPU in the next Sega machine anyway; Sega had deals in place and a great relationship with Hitachi, which unfortunately meant the Saturn had to have a SuperH CPU. (While a great and efficient processor, I would've rather it had a custom Motorola 68040, '060, or PowerPC 602 allowing software emulation of the Sega Genesis in the same way that PowerPC Macs could emulate 68K apps)

[@IsaMazutka]

Back in a day it was rumored that Nintendo will close up their console division because they barely sold anything compared to Sega especially after PS1 was released. Next thing you know Sega closes down and Nintendo who is completely irrelevant on the market in many places is somehow still around even today with their typical expensive decades outdated tech and overall pointless toxic trash so as shitty ports no one cares about because we already have them. But somehow there is enough naive clowns buying into just to have the same game on 100+ profiles on their broken down trash and the same game or different editions of consoles sealed up sitting on the shelf satisfying their pathetic hoarding instead of playing the damn thing ... Come to think of it all this console wars and hyping trash comes from scalps who bought up stock that they can't sell so they activate bots and pay people to spam this artificial hype about Nintendo etc. Instead of tossing all that into a recycling bin and learning on that mistake not to repeat it ever again.

[@AndyKazama2]

I think those weird adverts didn't help.

[@MrRyanlennie2005]

Andy Hughes Dreamcast ads were weird as well. Not sure what marketing company Sega had but they were pretty awful.

[@error4159]

Those ads in hindsight are just as bad as the PlayStation's ads

[@Anthonyelmio2]

No one I knew had a Saturn everyone had a N64 or PS1 and before that Genesis or SNES

[@gamerguy425]

Same. Weird freaking things is people my age always talk TO DEATH about n64 nostalgia but almost no one I can think of talks about the PS1 like I had.... despite it massively overselling the N64... maybe it had a bigger adult base than kids? The Saturn I literally never heard of in my life until I looked up the original Tomb Raider on wikipedia as a kid and saw it in the ports list. Dreamcast I barely heard anything about.

[@jonnymmac]

Same

[@Anthonyelmio2]

@@gamerguy425 I seen the Saturn ads as a kid but never really seen it until my uncle got one but this was around the PS2 and Xbox gen, he did gave me that one and still have it but I have no games for it because they are expensive

[@madhatter8508]

That's because Bernie Stolar and Sega of America sabotaged the Saturn and conceded that entire console generation to Sony in 1997, only 2 years into its life. They stopped localizing all the Saturn's hit games by early-1998 and decided to wait it out until the next generation, nearly 2 years later.

[@madhatter8508]

@@gamerguy425 Most PlayStation owners were young adults, and PlayStation games haven't aged well like Saturn and N64 games have. The textures warp and wobble, and the PlayStation has no z-buffer so there's no perspective correction from certain angles. Ken Kuteragi designed the system to be a triangle pushing powerhouse, so he had to make some concessions along the way. Also, the PlayStation was so successful that most of those classic PS1 games have had tons of sequels and been run into the ground, whereas if you want to play Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, etc. on a Nintendo console, your only options are the classic N64 games.

[@jhamptonjr]

2 months after the launch of the Sega Saturn a local retailer in my town, a little mom-and-pop retailer, marked their's down to 299. That's when I went and got one. I bought it specifically to play Pebble Beach Golf Links. It lasts me a good long time and I passed it down to my son who had been playing Sega TV through the cable company. Peace!

[@TVC_Studios]

The Sega Saturn is one of my favorite consoles of all time!!!

[@paulclinton6414]

It was underrated.

[@Cowinspace]

Coming from Europe I honestly had no idea the Saturn was even a thing when it launched. I though Sega jumped straight from the Mega Drive and its add on nonsense to the Dreamcast which launched straight into the brick wall that was the PS2.

[@subhumantype]

This was a weird time in gaming for sure. I still had my 3DO when the Saturn launched in early 95. I waited until the 3DO had a price drop to $400 before I got one. I owned the Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, and the 32x before that. I do have a lot of good memories playing the Saturn though. A friend of mine picked it up at launch along with Daytona USA and an extra controller, I’m not going to lie it was cool to be able to play Virtual Fighter and Daytona at home at that time.

[@JC-qu5lv]

The Saturn is still pretty close to the pinnacle of an experience for 2D games and Arcade ports.

[@SuperLuigiSixty4]

Just listened to this in the truck, love Pat's GoldenEye reference. "More money than God."

[@RetroSanctuary]

One thing to mention, the 32X didn't just hurt Sega's reputations, it also tied up some resources. Sega put good versions of Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing on that system, as well as Star Wars Arcade and such, remove it from the equation and Saturn has more games available at launch and possibly more polish added to its versions of Virtua Fighter and Daytona. They also save money not having to advertise 32X which can be utilised elsewhere. There is also the third parties who supported the 32X, if ID Software had not put Doom on the 32X then the Saturn's terrible version may have ended up being much more polished. 32X was just a terrible idea on pretty much all levels.

[@devilmikey00]

The saturn was a non-entity when I was a kid but as the years have done it's crazy how many games that were cross platform were just better on the Saturn. I really do feel like if Sega had managed to play up the whole "plays better on Saturn" thing they might have had something. Also, being more expensive then your competitor is never a winning strategy. If they'd not have released the Saturn at that E3 and dropped the price of it's September release to match the PS1 that might have helped as well.

[@maroon9273]

Also, ported most of there model series, systems 32 and proper sequel genesis/cd titles including some of the 32x titles. Saturn definitely would have been a must have console in the 90s.

[@madhatter8508]

@@maroon9273 They should have developed later Genesis games in parallel with the Saturn to show off what the Saturn could do, like they did with the Genesis and Master System. Saturn Ristar and Saturn Vectorman could've been great showcases.

[@madhatter8508]

It depends on which platform the game came out on first. In most cases that was Saturn, but there were games that were out on PlayStation first that got slap-dash, half-assed Saturn ports. Of course, Sony's marketing team would use those games as an example that Saturn "couldn't do 3D" (which was obviously wrong), but Sega didn't hit them back. Sega of America were very aggressive in 1995-1996, but by 1997 the PlayStation had run up the score and Sega's new CEO Bernie Stolar (an ex-Sony guy) had thrown in the towel. Wouldn't localize RPGs at the height of Final Fantasy VII and Pokemon, wouldn't localize puzzles when they were bringing gamers to Saturn in droves overseas, wouldn't localize anything "too Japanese" no matter how popular it was in the west. Saturn had Symphony of the Night for crying out loud, regarded by many as the best Castlevania of all time, but by the time it came out in Japan Sega of America had already declared the Saturn dead, so Konami saw no reason to bring the Saturn version to America. How the Hell do you let a game like that stay in Japan on your console? Sega of America, that's how. Sony was teabagging their corpse from 1997-1999.

[@supersexysega]

@@madhatter8508 Vectorman/Ristar would have done nothing to help the Saturn (even Comix Zone). Astal which is incredible to look at made 0 impact on the market. 3D was everything at that point as far as hype went, doesn't mean no 2D games sold well or got good ratings. Just there wasn't the excitment towards them. The 32x hurt both the Genesis and especially the Saturn. The few exclusives the 32x had Chaotix, Kolibri, Tempo, Spiderman Web of Fire etc. should have all been Genesis games to put forth a strong phase out lineup of 95'. The Saturn could have had a bunch of those 32x sales and hype that were wasted on the 32x. Then all the money Sega wasted promoting the 32x could have been used to market Genesis software which really took a hit and build up hype for the Saturn.

[@yuvraj01]

What will always remain a mystery is how Sega could not take the blue-print of what made the Genesis successful, and then apply it to the design of the Saturn, instead they ended up taking their eye of the ball because of the Jaguar, which then brought about the 32x, and by the time, the Playstation came out Sega didn't know what hit them...

[@vulcanraven9701]

That's exactly what went wrong. SEGA failed to build off the Genesis. They didn't bring back most of their successful first party titles. The Saturn went all in on arcade games- which had declining popularity. The Genesis was cheap compared to the Overpriced Saturn. The ads for the Genesis were exciting and edgy and it felt like the Saturn was trying hard to change the company's image.

[@chrissawyer1484]

Sega's problem at this point is that Sega of America and Sega of Japan were warring against each other.

[@yuvraj01]

@@chrissawyer1484 who started the war? In the 80s and early 90s there were singing from the same hymn sheet!

[@TsunoOkashi]

0:52 When you press the power button on your Genesis..

[@Noobsaibot21]

"Imagine Mario not releasing at launch with a Nintendo console" Cube? Wii? Switch?

[@vulcanraven9701]

Noobsaibot21: i'd say its different with Nintendo. They have a much deeper first party lineup than SEGA did. The latter needed to put Sonic early on in the Saturn's lifespan.

[@liamboyle6345]

One of the best gaming weekend of my life was when my mom let me rent the Saturn at blockbuster. It came in a huge black brief case. Rented the nhl game and Daytona which was my favorite arcade game at the time. Say what you want about it, but this was our first and it was a HUGE JUMP in graphics.

[@liamboyle6345]

That was the largest graphical leap between generations....obviously PlayStation was better...but it didn’t wow me like playing nhl on Saturn...

[@GustoTheGamer]

Still playing and loving my Saturn. Panzer dragoon sage a real hidden gem

[@christopherpacheco2884]

Actually Ian, it was Steve Race that did the "$299" :)

[@cooladee]

I LOVE the Saturn. I like it more than the Playstation.

[@paulclinton6414]

Sega Saturn has more games that have held up over time than PS1.

[@cj694x2]

@@paulclinton6414 lol what?!

[@dennismolina9033]

I still have my Saturn, the Saturn was more of a 2D powerhouse, The PS1 blew it away with more games and it was more 3D, i remember it was a big transition from the 16-Bit back in '95

[@heisensaul5538]

Several years ago, a buddy of mine either gave me a Saturn he decided he didnt want any more or sold it to me for something really really cheap like $25. And when I got it, I remember being so excited that I was getting it and that I was just gonna start collecting Saturn games. This was around 2011 or 2012 I want to say. Then I looked into it about collecting the games and I found out it was expensive and being in college at that time I didnt really have the money to collect for Saturn. Fast foward to this year, 2022. I was cleaning out my room and forgot that I had the Saturn. I hooked it up, found out it still worked, and I had two controllers, 9 games, and all the hook ups for it. So I decided to sell it. Along with a bunch of nintendo 64 games, a N64 memory card, an NES Max, and an NES advantage, I got $350 for everything I had. The only Saturn game of mine that didnt have a case was Virtua fighter and I even said something to the guy about it and he said any Saturn game is better than not having one. I was quit shocked and I learned that Saturn games and the system go for a lot these days lol

[@CubamusPrime]

Still my favorite system ever made. Best games exclusives like Nights,Guardian Heroes, Radiant Silvergun and V Fighter2

[@elin111]

I grew up during the 5th Gen, and did not know the Saturn even existed until a few years ago.

[@sarahc3295]

My brothers and I played "the hell" out of Independence Day on Sega Saturn!

[@TheNatestOfAllTime]

I had cousins that were 3 boys too. They had every sega console and add-on through the dreamcast. I remember playing scud and the bug games at their house. Good times.

[@MikeyJProductions]

The Saturn was and IS a great system. I was one of the few (apparently), here in America that went from SNES to the Sega Saturn, and I LOVED IT. I ended up buying a PS1 and N64 as well, but the Saturn was my favorite of that gen. I had SO much fun with that system. The biggest mistake imo was NOT making the cartridge port on it Genesis compatable. If they would have done that, it would have been game over. Everyone talks about the other mistakes, but not making that port Genesis compatable was the BIGGEST mistake.

[@soulripper31]

Nobody cares about backwards comptability. Saturn would still have failed, even if it could play Genesis cartridges. It had way too many problems and most of its games were lame 2D that didn't look much better than previous generation (or even uglier). Look at a game like GEX for Saturn / PS1, can you honestly say that looks better than Yoshi's Island? It doesn't. Need another example? The Legend of Oasis... Looks uglier than A Link to the Past. Guardian Heroes just looks straight up ugly compared to beat 'em up games from the 16-bit generation.

[@MrERLoner]

The saturn should have leaned more into the japabese library

[@richardtheconquerer]

I remember seeing something about the PlayStation and Saturn in a magazine like six months to a year before they came out. Young me really loved the design of the Saturn for whatever reason. In this particular magazine, the Saturn was also like a tan color.

[@marcusgurley9495]

The 32X wasn’t a TERRIBLE idea. SOJ keeping SOA in the dark about their plans for Saturn was a terrible idea. Can’t ask folks to pony up $400 when you just got them to spend $200 on an add on

[@fafling]

True, 32X wasn't a TERRIBLE idea, it was an ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE idea. It made Sega split its ressources when they couldn't afford it and that definitely compromised the Saturn launch.

[@mjf8897]

Virtua Fighter 2, Daytona USA, World Series Baseball 2, Virtua Cop Loved the Saturn - rocked some Metallica Load while playing Madden 97 - good times

[@zandax]

6:02 "What if Nintendo said 'You know, we're gonna skip Mario on our system'." They kinda-ish skipped it on the Wii U, in my opinion (and see what happened!). Also, I remember getting the Wii at launch and having to wait for Mario Galaxy a whole year. There was Zelda, yeah... but you really need Mario

[@JoshuaWilkesR]

Also imagine nintendo makes a new handheld but no Pokémon

[@dontegraves5051]

Mario titles were in no way skipped on the Wii U. The best selling and highest rated titles during the consoles lifespan were Mario games.

[@pictonomii3295]

Super Mario 3D World. The fact that it isn't Super Mario Galaxy 3 doesn't mean it's not a main series Mario Game.

[@teamspirits732]

Would make more sense if you just mention the Virtual Boy.

[@3ambreakbeats977]

I loved the 32x with virtua fighter and virtua racing so ...

[@Sevenigma777]

Pebble Beach with Craig Stadler was an awesome golf game. Prob was the best one ever until Tiger Woods came out. Edit for spelling

[@beowulf716]

My neighbor had it. I loved the Saturn, but the only games I really remember liking were Knight and Guardian Heroes (which is a same it hasn't had a Switch port yet)

[@circlecreeper]

sounds real similar to current gen launch, take a gander at those launch titles too lol

[@Korium84]

the black car on ridge racer still gives me nightmares.

[@ArtDocHound]

I really thought we'd be living on Saturn by now.

[@TheCreepypro]

I never had one or even knew someone who had it but you know what? I'm still grateful for it since it had one of the great mascots ever in Segata Sanshiro love that guy!

[@qmto]

Surprisingly enough, I did know one kid who had a Saturn growing up, but the only games I ever played on it was the basic Virtua Fighter and Daytona 500.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

Whats so surprising about this cool story.

[@danielposey0620]

Nintendo did skip Mario on GameCube though, they used Luigis Mansion as a launch title instead, Sunshine didn’t come out till much later.

[@pictonomii3295]

Not what they were talking about. There was never a Sonic game on the Saturn. Every Nintendo console besides the Virtual Boy has had a main series Mario game.

[@shampine]

I was going to get a Saturn but then my older brother suggested the Playstation so I got that and Ridge Racer. First time I took his advice on a console good thing I did.

[@themanualmindset2868]

I loved my Saturn. It was one of my favorite console, and fighters megamix was my go to game.

[@davidsomoza]

I was a saturn kid, i got one for cheap instead of a playstation and i had tons of fun with resident evil, virtua cop, panzer dragoon, die hard arcade, quake,and tons of others. Also, saturn was not very popular here in Spain so i got lots of cheap games preowned on stores. People said saturn failed, i gladly would trade my ps4 for a saturn with some games if the cd drives werent so easy to die these days. I know there is a sd reader but those are too expensive atm. Also, sonic r was fucking fun and awesome and people making fun of its ost these days have no heart. EDIT: What i regret is that i traded my panzer dragoon saga for alien trilogy because i was young and saga was in English only, wich at that time i didnt understood very well.

[@Retro_Royal]

A replacement Laser is not to hard to install, I recommend getting a Saturn (again), love that console.

[@paulclinton6414]

Sega first party made it worth it.

[@maxpower10k]

I don’t know man, the games from the mid 90s during the early polygon days just do not age well. They really need HD remasters at the very least. I’m playing through some old PS1 and N64 games right now and as much as I love them, a lot have not aged well and probably doesn’t help that I don’t have a CRT TV to play them on haha

[@robhuanout5443]

oof that's tragic about trading PDS

[@Metal-Possum]

The optical drive in the Saturn was one of the best, they over-engineered it and they proved very reliable. The Dreamcast was a whole different story...

[@Yoshoku]

I told my wife that we’re only celebrating zero and fives for wedding anniversaries, she’s not happy lol

[@TheGreyBaron]

I think it needs to be said how much demo discs helped further interest and drive sales for the original Playstation. I personally ended up with dozens via the Official Playstation Magazine, many of which I still remember to this day. At a time when the rental market was drying up, this direct demo model really seized an opportunity for a newcomer in the console market.

[@EnygmaRecords]

I recall when the 32x came out I wanted one, but it was kind of expensive and I was already saving money for a Saturn. I ended up getting the 32x when Blockbuster Video was selling it for $20, and got Virtua Fighter with it free (which was actually a really solid port at the time). I remember the idea of the 32x when it came out was about upgrading your Genesis; not about being a new system. People believed it would run their Genesis software faster/better (which is probably due to the much nicer composite video on the 32x compared to most stock Genesis units, so it gave the illusion of an upgrade simply by having a different video encoder). What they should've done was make 32x games backwards compatible with the Genesis and if you had a 32X you'd get better performance/more content. I don't recall anyone at the time having the impression the 32X was supposed to be a new system - it was just if you wanted to upgrade your Genesis (primarily aimed at people who didn't want to spend $399 to be an early Saturn adopter).

[@birchmahogany2718]

I've been playing the Saturn like crazy lately. It's a fantastic system, not as good as the PSX but there are many exclusives for the Saturn that have aged incredibly well. The games that utilize it's graphical capabilities have such a cool unique look to them. I've never been a huge fan of Sega but the Saturn has always been one of my favorite consoles. Currently playing 'Shining the Holy Ark' and I just blown away by how fantastic it is, no one ever mentions it.

[@EnygmaRecords]

Regarding the game magazines and the launch of the PSX - I used to read most of the gaming mags and the level of buzz about the Playstation prior to US launch wasn't all that big. Sony was seen as a bit of a 'tech company that just wanted to get their hands into something they probably didn't understand' by a lot of people, and there wasn't much of anything prior to that to go off of to make them seem like they'd be able to hang with the 'big boys' (obviously that perception was wrong). I got my playstation not long after the launch and for the longest all I owned was the demo disc because there was nothing I wanted to play on it. Battle Arena Toshinden was fun to rent but didn't give enough fun for me to warrant purchasing; Virtua Fighter 2 looked and played way better. Tekken was really what started bringing fighting fans to the Playstation, that one was popular and almost always unavailable when blockbuster got it. Saturn did get a "better" version of Toshinden by the time we all got hip to Tekken. As for Ridge Racer, while I wasn't big on racing games, Ridge Racer was fun to rent (but Sega had Daytona). It was kinda like Battlefield vs Call of Duty (in that the games have different styles, so it's ultimately a matter of 'what flavor of game do you want' rather than 'which one is superior'). I was a Sega fan at the time, but I didn't care for Daytona... I believe the first game I actually bought for the Playstation was Tomb Raider (or maybe I bought King's Field first, and yes, I had owned the system a full year without purchasing a game for it because I was buying 16-bit titles still, anyway). I remember titles seemingly coming in "waves", and renting a few each time, wondering if the PSX was gonna actually ever have something I wanted to play on it. I was mainly into RPGs at the time, so Sony wasn't really filling my needs and the Saturn was looking appealing because we knew RPGs were gonna be there from various magazines (I vividly recall an issue of either EGM or maybe GamePro that had the image from 'Beyond the Beyond' on the cover with big letters saying "HERE COME THE RPGs" announcing the Playstation finally getting some, although BtB looked disappointing from the get go to me). It was kinda anyone's game still, until Sony locked exclusives like Final Fantasy 7 - that was really the main game changer and that's the first title I recall people I actually knew deciding they needed to own a playstation now. As soon as that was announced, my best friend, Doug, abandoned his plans for an ultra 64 and bought a Playstation because 'Squaresoft'.

[@Goobian]

I think the only person I met with a Saturn during when it was new was my cousin. He played Mortal Kombat on a big screen tv in his room, blasting Guns and Roses. He followed them on tour that year, huge fan.

[@NoelComiX]

Sega's biggest f* up was not working with Sony on the 32bit console. Nakayama was SO stupid.

[@maroon9273]

Also with sgi, nvidia, 3do and Lockheed martin.

[@NoelComiX]

@@Allen.Christian mmm I don't see why Sony couldn't have brought their progress to the table in Saturn's development. Huge missed chance. Plus Saturn had some great 3rd party titles notably from Capcom.

[@maroon9273]

@@Allen.Christian however the sega as a whole did a terrible properly releasing the Saturn in NA and EU. Thus, rushing for a early launch date, not having proper SDK for varieties of programming languages and lack of a cleaner and efficient design especially the sh2 (using slave/master format) , scu dsp (lack of low level program langauages and faster clock speed thus removing the need for a dual Sh2 set up), cd sub unit, unified vdp1+vdp2 vram/main ram/color pallete+on screen colors (including adjustable framebuffer for the both vdp's) and scsp (lack of decompression and adpcm support). Also, solving issues with the vdp1 bus/bandwidth and 2D/3D effects like transperacy issues. For a quick fix, they could used one of the SH-2 to work as a coprocessor to the vdp1 using software technique to perform better.

[@brandonlink6568]

I remember being so disappointed when I got my Playstation home to find it came with no games, just the demo disc. I played the hell out of that demo disc though. I'm pretty sure Raiden Project was a launch title and Total Eclipse was an on rail over the shoulder spaceship shooter.

[@dennismolina9033]

The demo disc helped and kept u occupied till u get a real game lol, games are expensive! Those were the best days when there was no DLC, no annoying system updates, no Installation process, that takes away the fun of gaming

[@groalerable]

If they kept in the 2d direction maybe it would have a better chance. I know people wanted thing to be next gen, but big sprites, detailed pixel art etc were still impressive.

[@patrickbateman00]

Speaking of anniversarys. It's been 5 years since Ian's last stalker "Max" story. Can we expect another one?

[@kellinwinslow1988]

We had nothing as good as Segata Sanshrio over here. Sega just didn't know what they were doing. They had no plans,just a scramble to try and copy the other companies. The big mistakes were the rushed launch and the fact that they just didn't carry over their big franchises from the Genesis onto the Saturn. The first year it had a chance. End of 95' and 96' were close. Sega Rally,Nights,Vitura Cop,Vitura Fighter 2 and others almost closed the gap but when Resident Evil came out for the PSX and FF 7 was announced it was all over. Too bad because the Saturn was in some ways more interesting than either the PS1 or N64. All the Working Designs games were great, Enemy Zero was interesting and Panzer Dragoon Saga was possibly the best RPG of the 5th gen and Radiant Silvergun was amazing. I played nothing but the Saturn from 96' to 98' until it was dropped. Only then did I get a PSX and an N64.

[@kinganarkzie]

A lot of the Saturn's best games were hard to get or not even released over in the UK. I'm not surprised it did not do as well the PlayStation and N64.

[@TimmiiGamingChannel]

The games I want this to be imported to NA was Sakura Taisen 1 2 and the rest of the series that was on this system. Now that they have a Sequel on the PS4 I would want to play the games in order.

[@vintagegamer695]

From what I was told, other reasons the Saturn did poorly over here is because not only was it difficult to make games for, Sega didn't help out third party developers who struggled to understand and develop games for the system.

[@madhatter8508]

Sega released some powerful tools to 3rd parties in 1995-1996 but you're right, Sega of Japan's attitude toward third parties was that they were adversaries competing with Sega's first-party games. Sony, on the other hand, had no first party franchises so they relied on third parties. Sony had nothing to compete with Ridge Racer or Battle Arena Toshinden, and that meant Namco could dominate the market in those genres on the PlayStation.

[@vintagegamer695]

@D core True, although I didn't know how many games were on the system. But, if I recall, there is a LOT of games that didn't come over from Japan, and maybe the third party developers in Japan had a better time understanding how to make games for the system I don't know.

[@madhatter8508]

@D core Yeah, IN JAPAN. Sega of Japan's attitude toward 3rd party developers changed by the end of the first year, when they realized they were in the fight of their lives against Sony. That's why they finally released tools like the C compiler and SGL. Sega of America's attitude didn't change until the Dreamcast. SOA wouldn't even localize the top selling first-party games from Japan, while SCEA were bringing all the games they could to the PlayStation in America. It's like Sega of America were TRYING to fail.

[@D4Disdain]

Correction to Ian: the 299$ Sony Playstation announcement was delivered by Steve Race and not Olaf Olaffson!

[@orbitingdecay6797]

Would of loved to see what the 32x was really capable of. We'll never know. Sonic 32, streets of rage 32? We'll never know.

[@wuldntuliktonoptb6861]

"The Saturn is not our future" and "299" had alot to do with it. Also "it's in stores right now"

[@JAGO_Tech]

2 points: 1) The PS1 couldn't save to system. A memory card & game equated to $379 vs the Saturn's $399. 2) The 32X release in NA was the same week as the JPN Saturn. Completely mixed messaging.

[@meatrace]

I spent a year of my life saving up money for the Saturn launch. I was a Genesis fanboy. Then I saw someone play Resident Evil, which was PSX exclusive, and I NEEDED that game, so I bought a PlayStation instead. Never regretted it for a second.

[@JuanJimenez-mf5jm]

What went wrong? - 32X - American Marketing team failed. Remember folks, the Saturn did well in Japan and had was the fighting game BEAST of that generation. Also had the better version of Megaman 8 ;)

[@pigboykool]

I was there when they launched the Saturn; you guys are pretty correct on why Sega Saturn failed in America due the terrible marketing decision Sega America had before the launch. However, Saturn is one still my personal favor console of ALL time and one of the most reliable consoles I ever had. I have 6 different model of Saturn and they sill works like a rock today & never had any failure with anyone of them.

[@jimmyfoppiano2822]

I miss Road Rash on that console.😦😦

[@mcleanF1]

Incredibly underrated console. I love the Saturn. I tend to be alone with this opinion, but I thought it was better than the Dreamcast. The Saturn is worth it just for the Xmen and Marvel vs. Games.

[@Milkiy-Hazard]

I actually don't mind the early 3D games at all. I think the saturn is fantastic still to this day. So many great arcade games that are easy to pick up and play. Me and my boyfriend love this system and still play it reguarly. He's a PC gamer and not into retro usually but since there are so many great arcade games he loves to play it with me and we have some very competetive sessions of Sega Rally.

[@TitanSix]

I got my Saturn by trading a friend a Yu-Gi-Oh card. Really.

[@clover831]

I really wish Sega would do a Saturn mini console. Although, it would probably be more expensive because you would need beefier hardware to emulate it on a Mednafen emulator. But, I would gladly pay!

[@larshiggs2514]

I remember going to Best Buy at the launch of the Saturn with “Kevin” and his parents. And my jaw dropped as I watched his parents drop over $500 for the system and a couple of games (my parents would never do that). We played it all weekend, and “Kevin” got offended when I pointed out the slow-down on Panzer Dragoon. I admit, I was a little worried being a Nintendo kid. But then all was good in the world again the following year with the birth of the N64.

[@VeryDryBones]

I remember one summer I got a PlayStation and my cousin got a Sega Saturn and he was so angry but his mother didn't know the difference. He wound up almost never play it and jump ship to the PS2 when that came out. All this was mostly over crash bandicoot not being on sega

[@MrRyanlennie2005]

I’ve still got a Saturn, great console.

[@msmith42001]

I got one pretty early, with Virtua Fighter. I had high hopes, but eventually traded it in, to get a PS1. I didn't want to wait an extra 6-8 months to get games PS1 already had.

[@brpadington]

I also remembered liking the ESPN PSX game. Everyone I knew liked it at the time but it doesn't hold up.

[@cfhcowboy9292]

I had a sega saturn ....i liked it. Had good memories with that system . Still better then dreamcast lol

[@donkey7577]

If Sega Saturn would've played Sega CD games ......& Dreamcast could play both Saturn & Sega CD .....

[@markwilliams1892]

I bought a Saturn as soon as it came out. The main reason why is that I had been a Nintendo fan my entire life, and I had bought into the marketing and the idea that Nintendo was for kids, and Sega was for an older crowd, with more mature games. I had not owned any of the other sega systems, but had watched for years as the Sega CD and 32X came out, and I felt that these systems were "next generation" systems that I had been missing out on. Sony at the time was a wild card, but I trusted Sega to make good games. To this day, the Saturn is still my favorite system experience of all time, and I have most of the very rare games for that system.

[@ryanpyle9822]

N64 did not have a weak launch. It had one of the greatest most revolutionary games ever made, and it had a really solid fun flight sim that was worth a day one buy. Just because it was only two games does not make it weak. Its launch was 100% quality titles, how many launch lineups can say that?

[@MrERLoner]

Lol

[@crypticrituals6530]

Love Pat's w,w,w,wa-wa-wa why? Those arcade perfect fighting games on the Japanese Saturn, with the upgrade cart though!

[@G18999]

2:25 It was Steve Race who said 299 not Olaf.

[@SaviorGabriel]

You guys bring up a good question in regards to whether the Saturn would've been a bigger success had the 32X not happened. I recently got to dabble into the world of the 32X thanks to the MiSTer. Of all the consoles that ever existed that were a flop, I seriously question why the 32X needed to exist. I could maybe justify other failed systems with them trying something different, and it not working. I honestly don't see what the 32X brought to the table aside from making people lose faith in Sega.

[@cinnamondan4984]

Between N64, Saturn, and PlayStation I tend to go back to Saturn the most. Saturn games are a good in and out for a busy adult

[@Ac0ustics0ul]

It just never had the games, at least not here the States.. you had gems like Guardian Heroes, Panzer series. Shning the holy ark and 3 dirty dwarves, die hard arcade.. but it was never enough. That's why the Dreamcast lineup had to be so overwhlemingly great, and it was.. I had both at launch

[@neoasura]

Japan killed the Sega Saturn by underestimating the US when it came to RPGs. The American gamers were starting to finally get old enough to appreciate RPGs, something Nintendo didn't see with the N64 (buy oddly did with the SNES), or Sega with the Saturn, it took the Playstation to realize the power of that genre in America, especially after FF7.

[@brandonkick]

The Saturn was DOA Sega had built up a reputation of dumping some new add on / system onto the market and dumping support for it shortly there after. These things weren't cheap either. The add ons were poorly designed, 3 power bricks for the genesis? Like 12 different combo's between model 1 sega genesis, model 2.... model 1 sega CD, model 2.... the 32X, then they launched the new add on at $100 more than the price of the competition. I mean $399 in 1995 was a lot of money. Almost $800 today. I'm shocked they even bothered to release the Dreamcast..... the fans had been burned way too many times, and the game developers too.

[@maroon9273]

It's crazy phantasy star never ported to the Saturn.

[@Twi66e]

When I was 11 my friend invited me to his house and I have a memory of being in his room and seeing this strange console underneath his TV. I begged him to let us play on it but he said it sucked and didn’t want to 😂 I have never come across another one ever

[@weston407]

where did the renting a car at 25 myth come from?

[@northofnashira2575]

42 is only acceptable for Hithiker's Guide stuff.

[@highwayman187]

I must say I feel video gaming wouldn't be what it is today if it hadn't been for the ps1

[@jacobboner3869]

My cousins had Sega Saturn first and last time I saw the system

[@dustman820]

The closest a console got to the Saturn in terms of failure was the Xbox One. They had a reveal and bad launch when they tried to restrict used games and always had to be online or your console became a brick and wouldn't play games until it could regain a connection, but they backtracked when the PS4 did not restrict used games and could still play games when there was no internet connection and outsold Xbox One in preorders. Unlike the Saturn, Xbox turned it around. Although it finished behind the PS4, it was not the disaster their whole cycle like the Saturn was and did not have to end things early.

[@yourusernameisdumb9509]

Saturn had tons upon tons of amazing games. Only problem is most of them never made it out of Japan.

[@laminypie82]

Love Saturn. Amazing 2d fighters.

[@CubamusPrime]

Sega 32X and early launch was a huge mistake

[@somanymods]

I bought PlayStation on launch day at kb toys. Got toshinden unfortunately lol. ESPN extreme games was one of the demos that came on the pack in disc. I ended up buying it I think. I also enjoyed it despite it's crappiness.

[@overkill7990]

What happened is we got an awesome system with 100s of games we can still play, whether it was a commercial success or not.

[@josephwoolshleger7011]

DragonForce: my personal favorite Saturn game

[@NastalgicCLOWN80687]

Saturn was mismanaged and its underrated

[@wesleymadsen4357]

If Princess Toadstool had a baby with Sonic The Hedgehog 🤔

[@TheSleathable]

There was a weird hype in the U.K for the playstation. I remember being asked what I would get pre launch and i said the Saturn and I was laughed at. When I picked one up 2nd hand as I didnt have 399 everyone wanted to borrow it. No way and it still works today