Coleco Attacks Colecovision Facebook Fan Page?! -

Coleco Holdings has gone after a Colecovision Facebook fan page based on trademark complaints.
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[@PatTheNESpunk]

Is Coleco Holdings in the right here? Have they gone too far in defending trademark? What do you think? ►More info @ bit.ly/2qXm8je ►Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast ►More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH ►Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle

[@J.Valentine1031]

What dungeonseeker1uk said is true when it comes to copyright and trademark law. You can't pick and choose your battles when it comes to copyright and trademark. If anything looks similar to your established business trademark or copyright. Regardless if it makes your company look like an abusive bullying asshat you have to sic your lawyers on them. For example, Whataburger sent trademark infringement notices to WB because the current Wonder Woman logo looked similar to their Whataburger logo.

[@cmshazam3785]

I am on a Colecovision Fan site, and saw this a few days ago. Thank you for bringing this to people's attention, and just in general for having a good heart, hilarious sense of humor, and great shows and programs!

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Gracias!

[@detox2778]

They are ass holes !!! nuff said

[@WhoaItsRitch]

I don't have facebook, so I'm only going for the screenshots you show in the video, but I do see the link that says "shop now" where is that link actually going to?

[@TechBrewGamer]

it is a patent troll. all they want is $$. they do not care about furthering the brand.

[@MrTBoneSF]

I first heard Chris Cardillo speak on a Colecovision podcast about a year and a half ago, and it was clear to me that him and Mike Kennedy were two of a kind. For them, classic gaming isn't a passion but merely a business opportunity. When people asked him about his favorite Colecovision games, it was obvious he never played any classic games. All he wanted to talk about was having a complete VGA Graded (or Certified or whatever) sealed boxed set of Coleco games. He kept bringing that fact up. When people would talk about actual games, he played along but it was like that scene in 40 Year Old Virgin when it's painfully obvious the guy has no clue what everyone else is talking about. Then the trade show where Atari Age and Twitter were saying "that prototype is a SNES Jr, here's photographic proof", Cardillo just let the charade go on, He didn't even make Mike Kennedy open the thing up after the show. At best, Chris C was being willfully ignorant about what was going on. Plus there's the fact that owning the "Colecovision" Copyright is not worth much since most of its "killer games" were other people's IP. If you ask about the killer apps for Colecovision they are Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, etc. - all other people's IPs that would have to be licensed separately. Even Coleco's most original game "Smurf Rescue" (a mediocre platformer with terrible controls) would need additional licenses. The other Coleco claim to fame, those mini-arcades, have the same issue. Coleco can't license you Pac-Man or Donkey Kong, so someone wanting to make tabletops would be foolish to deal with Coleco Holdings, because they still need the game license. Coleco Holdings also has no technical abilities to make tabletop games. All a deal will get you is a sticker with "Coleco" on it. And according to Op Code, Coleco might not even have a valid claim to that logo artwork. Plus people are already making awesome mini arcade and are going directly to Namco, Sega, etc (Nintendo will never license such things) to get proper licenses. There is simply no need to deal with Faux Coleco.

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Interesting info and valid points about the licensing and the fact that most popular Colecovision games were 3rd-party titles. *Anyone* can bring back and produce those mini-tabletop arcade games as long as they get the rights to that specific game: Pac-Man, Frogger, Donkey Kong, etc.

[@tentaclejoe]

That's exactly the impression I got when I heard that interview. Plus he talks like he grew up with the Colecovision, I don't think he was even born yet when it came out :)

[@zebunker]

LONGEST. PARAGRAPH. EVER.

[@Real_NotJohnnyWas]

i dont care if they make the next golden eye, coleco is a dead brand, and will remain dead to me with assholes like these guys running it they are destined for failure, ill have my popcorn ready

[@MilitaryVapes]

The problem is Coleco Holdings only owns the name. They can't license new software. It's like suing kotaku for hosting a review. And there's no reverse engineering and/or DRM cracking involved in making the software to run on the system.

[@starsiegeplayer]

The DMCA cannot be used for trademark enforcement. It is specifically for copyright. Filing a bogus DMCA claim falls "under penalty of perjury."

[@Michirin9801]

The Colecovision was 2nd generation, not 1st, the 1st was just the original Odyssey and a whole bunch of Pong consoles...

[@briandelaney91]

Sounds like a dumb idea if youre trying to revive a brand. Lets alienate the only people that are interested and make sure they come to hate the brand. Dont think thats going to work out for them

[@ArrisonChan]

It's kinda painful to think that anytime I hear "Coleco" now, my mind goes to Mike Kennedy and the state of the brand instead of the Colecovision itself. At this point this is corpse desecration.

[@bluearmy893]

I usually think of the table top mini arcades or cabbage patch dolls, sometimes the vision. Not going to let these fuckers ruin the legacy.

[@ladynikkie]

it's a Facebook fan page unless this fan page is making money off the trademarks, they don't have a pot to piss in and they need to leave this group alone and be fortunate that anyone gives a damn about the ColecoVision at all!

[@detox2778]

ladynikkie i couldn't have said it better myself 😂😂😂

[@ColecoVisionFan]

We are not selling anything. We simply post about games made for the ColecoVision as any other fan page would. We are not using anything without permission. If they are going to go after someone, they should go after the homebrewers and the publishers for making those games and using those logos.

[@ladynikkie]

ColecoVision Fan exactly and besides you don't see any game companies going after the other fan pages dedicated to Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Xbox, or any other retro gaming systems on FB. just pay those fools no mind and keep doing your thing on the fan page you're within your right to do so.

[@MegaBrandOn]

Mattel would never do this to the Intellivision fan page.

[@bluearmy893]

+OM19 MO79 Keith Robinson comes to mind

[@KashouWannabe]

Then they better get after FOX, the Simpsons uses ColecoVision several times for a brunt of a joke. Jesus, some companies nowadays, if anything this FB page is free advertising, aimed at a community that love the console. Such a shame CV got bought out by dickheads.

[@ColecoVisionFan]

We are not selling anything. We simply post about games made for the ColecoVision as any other fan page would. We are not using anything without permission. If they are going to go after someone, they should go after the homebrewers and the publishers for making those games and using those logos. We had nothing to do with the development of any of those games.

[@Real_NotJohnnyWas]

they really should go after fox and the creators of simpsons, so they can see what a real company looks like, and also get their asses handed to them

[@cmshazam3785]

ColecoVision Fan yeah go after the people keeping the system viable and relevant, idiots. It's why I'm not part of your group!

[@SkulShurtugalTCG]

Why are video game companies always so defensive of their names? Seriously.

[@killervacuum]

facebook explicitly allows fan pages. what a crock

[@8ByteBrian]

There's a PATent joke here somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find it.

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Dammit Brian, 17 minutes and I couldn't drag that out once!

[@mightydegu]

It should be noted that Coleco Holdings does not own the classic Colecovision logo, so they can not prevent others from using it. They also have no legal means of preventing homebrew/Retro game publishers from releasing Colecovision games. It's a 35 year old system, the patents expired many years ago.

[@Kittylover074]

I thought this was about the Coleco Chameleon again

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Swerve!

[@bluearmy893]

+Pat the NES Punk Pat's been listening to Vince Russo's podcast

[@Traumaqueenamy]

You know what they say "Don't bite the hand that feeds." If they keep "biting" then they're going to starve and die. It's not wise to piss on those who are keeping you alive. Karma

[@devilmikey00]

Someone abusing the DMCA incorrectly? Say it ain't so!

[@ckmishn3664]

There is no DMCA mechanism for enforcing trademarks. Somebody messed up here, whether it's the.post calling what they received a "DMCA" notice, or Facebook for not noticing it wasn't a valid notice (and Coleco for filing an invalid notice).

[@itchyisvegeta]

The most the Coleco owner can do is go after people using the actual Coleco logo to sell a homebrew product. Homebrew games are completely legal as long as they don't infringe on copyright IP, especially on pre NES consoles that have no lock out chip protection. This is why Atari 2600 had so many crappy games on the market before the crash. Also, Pat failed to mention that this facebook fan page has a "shop now" button which is probably what prompted the Coleco owner to take legal action, even though he was wrong. That being said, I hope the owner of Coleco goes broke from all the bull crap with it's name earlier, where he is forced to sell the IP to someone who will actually care and do a good service to the brand.

[@ColecoVisionFan]

The "Shop Now" button just points to another ColecoVision homebrew page that restores and modifies classic ColecoVision systems to help put more ColecoVision products into people's hands. We do not make any money at all from that button and the only reason it even says "Shop Now" is because Facebook doesn't really have any other options to change what the button says. EDIT: I've gone ahead and changed it to "Learn More" which is sort of equally as confusing, but at least doesn't imply that our page actually "sells" anything, because we do not.

[@itchyisvegeta]

Do RGB or HDMI mods exist for the system?

[@Treg]

Actual story starts 7:30 Geez Pat haven't you talked about the Coleco Chameleon enough already?

[@TFWKnightconvoy]

Treg It did meander a bit.

[@RyanMartinez]

The Goonies stuck out to me because the movie and IP is still being sold in the form of DVD and Blu-ray to this day so someone is still earning money off of that property. Wouldn't Coleco Holdings and Riverwest Brands overstep their bounds by claiming trademark on that type of licensed game instead of reaching out to whoever still holds ownership of that property (Steven Spielberg and Warner Bros) that's still being licensed out to various companies for various items (t-shirts, mugs, posters, etc)? Yeah, the game itself doesn't have much relevance today, but the logos and names themselves held within it are.

[@Digger318]

Lego did this to my Digger318 facebook page. I posted pics on the facebook page, never selling the bootleg lego sets. I got a warning from facebook, and of cos facebook doesnt even have a button to comment back, to fight this. So big companies can do whatever they want.

[@Krisipoke]

Actually, Konami not only holds the rights to Frogger now, they always had, as they are the original programmers of the game.

[@junglenerd2291]

This is why I like SNK and Sega. they enjoy their fans and fan projects.

[@jackherrington2634]

"Go after those homebrewers"... Youch... Pat, pat, pat.

[@PatTheNESpunk]

*If* you think they are infringing on your registered trademark, then yes, that is your right to. That was the most Coleco Holdings could possibly do, as I explained. It's nice to have context.

[@BenG76Cards]

From reading on Atari Age I would imagine most Home Brew producers will not use the Colecovision logo from this point forward. I read the comments below as well. The people that currently own the Coleco name have to be the biggest bunch of idiots. Now any of us guys that are into this stuff will make sure you guys never get a penny should you licence your name on another product. It would be a good idea for the parent company to fire the people currently at Coleco and issue a statement with an apology to the community before its to late to save face if it's not too late already.

[@TheCreepypro]

I think that this all stems from the fact that everybody wants to sue somebody if they own an ip , trademark, or copyright but don't really know what they can and can't do they probably didn't even know what was going on with this fan page and went ahead and sued them anyway not realizing they were shooting themselves in the foot

[@BenLJackson]

I never knew Caleco was short for Connecticut Leather Company, wow.

[@ViralVenom]

I wonder how that 30 year old box of nintendo cereal tastes. lol

[@dustman_b6245]

Really really really stale.

[@mmelgoza1983]

Ask Jon Riggs, there's a video too.

[@Clay3613]

What's the deal with leather companies and electronics?

[@MediocreTCG]

I grew with Intellivision and have never played anything but DK on Coleco, and this still pisses me off.

[@diegorivas1991]

Both invention patents and trademarks are industrial properties.

[@mrsam6751]

Why didn't they just put a raspberry pi and load it with coleco games and release it? And call it the the new colecovision.

[@Chodaboy65]

I have two Colecovisions at home. One has the Atari adapter. I LOVE my old systems!

[@fibrodad1354]

surely after so many years not defending said trademark, the group can carryon. is there not a law in TM that say if not defended the user can use the tM....

[@josephfanning1241]

Pat, have you seen the Basic Fun tabletops? The Pac-man and Space Invaders used sub-tiger quality LCDs, but their Q-bert and Centipede ones were incredible. Apparently they're doing Frogger and Missile Command next, but they're going to be the crap quality ones again...

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Will have to look into those...

[@williamburgoon1834]

lol

[@gravecactus]

fan page is fair use by definition.

[@the64bitter]

I've been curious about info on this... Excellent Cast! I'm now a subscriber! Please Do stay on top if this one. :)

[@fancyprance5943]

I gotta admit I woulda done the EXACT SAME THING because I want Pat the NES Punk to villainize me , my ultimate fantasy

[@jimiquackers8275]

A true villain would never crave nor fantasize villainization

[@ThatWolfFromHyruleGaming]

They might as well go after AVGN cuz he covered the Coleco Vision in great detail, including criticizing the enormous monstrosity that is the AC adapter and its stupid ass controller, not to mention its odd library of games...

[@DJThinK707]

Pat I want you to know that your New podcast, the interviews, is way more awesome. Ill just leave it at that.

[@strumdogg1]

They make the LED table-tops already. I see them at Walmart and Barnes & Noble, right next to the POP figures...$15-$20 each! :p I guess POP! didn't have any licensing issues. :p

[@JVenom]

Agreed Pat. They have a right to protect their property, but this is going a bit far... This is basically a trademark version of a patent troll lol.

[@ericfresh]

Over the line!

[@donaldsmith5790]

coleco holdings should work with the people making homebrew coleco and collect royalties

[@badfishNiki]

Off topic but someone try and help me please! I have faint memories of playing an NES game when I was younger and I can't figure out the name. I believe the game took place in space. All I can remember about the cart is that the label may have been orange in color and I think it had two guys fighting over a rifle. It's been killing me trying to find it.

[@DarkKnightTrinity]

Sorry, but like 500 NES games were in space. You are going to have to be way more specific. Do you remember anything about the gameplay ?

[@badfishNiki]

DarkKnightTrinity I figured the cart description was something good to go off of. Orange label and two guys fighting over a rifle I believe. Don't remember much gameplay except space and maybe a side scrolling platformer type.

[@DarkKnightTrinity]

Honestly, no, label art isn't much to go off of, I think gameplay is a better trigger memory. It didn't sound familiar to me. But I'm a pretty nice fellow so I looked through every (US released) NES cover art. Literally all of them. None match your description, here are a few that have rifles and are orange-ish, might have someone fighting over them: Code Name: Viper , Operation Wolf , POW Prisoners of War , Strider.

[@badfishNiki]

DarkKnightTrinity You are unbelievable. I even tried scrolling through the carts a while back but Strider didn't stand out to me. It's, without a doubt, Strider. Watched some gameplay and it hit me like a nostalgia trip. I will say, I was pretty accurate with the cart description lol. It is...orangeish and they're fighting over a rifle. Tell me it's not at least semi accurate lol. Anyway, you're an awesome Internet bro

[@badfishNiki]

DarkKnightTrinity okay so maybe they aren't necessarily fighting over the rifle but still. Almost lol

[@bluearmy893]

No more cartoon Ian in the thumbnails

[@chrisbeach423]

this chris guy probably just did this for a publicity stunt to get people like pat talking about coleco again. they miss their chameleon limelight

[@blakfloyd5602]

Goddamn Pat, a little brevity please. How many times can you repeat your bullet points in one vid?

[@billford171]

I can't believe Atari is going after coleco for building an Atari 2600 add-on when they owned the rights to it. Oh wait, that was over 30 years ago and Coleco won.

[@joeb1808]

I remember when there were no video game systems due to the crash . So out came NES. I thought it was no better than my colecovision so I waited. Then I saw a Sega master system. Thought that was better on so many levels. Bought that. Good times.

[@jackdiamond5340]

I wonder what Mike Kennedy is doing now, probably working in a tool booth or something

[@phreakout93]

great point of conclusion at the very end

[@edrosa3485]

They are smelling money that isn't there.

[@SamSung-bk2se]

It all start because of Koleco Chameleon ,' MK' has been draging Koleco name through the mud while throwing some of his best friend under the bus, it give bad rep for Koleco name for a long time coz it known as ' Koleco Chameleon', not ' Retro Chameleon'...& since MK is no more(???) in Retro scene,Kriss Karavagio gonna lash out his anger to anyone who still 'using' Koleco name...

[@Rob-tl7wl]

Coleco could get more respect and money by cooperating with gamers and fan pages. Look at the bigger picture if it's about business. Do something cool in the retro community that embraces all the weird shit gamers like to do like homebrews etc. But no. Coleco chose to go the bozo route.

[@Asahamana]

OMG Butters! I Missed you 😄

[@astuteandy]

can't wait until you talk about the Mike Matei debacle.

[@FIXTREME]

His dick?

[@astuteandy]

FIXTREME basically.

[@vinson311]

Here is why everyone makes that stupid joke about Mike (it's just a fold in his jeans and shadow from the sun): web.archive.org/web/20141229133212/phillypu.com/post/98166646320/northern-plastics-lazzrgrl119-mike-matei

[@greasygranpapy7529]

ElitePizza311 Wow! His dick is almost as big as mine. _Almost._

[@markplott4820]

Atari beat them and Eat them makes me uncomfortable, LOL

[@PhilTeoli]

Great bit as always!

[@NISSANZ33]

Where's Ian?

[@Sparda98]

Still recovering.

[@LanceFoxcoonbit]

Their sick mr punk.

[@gordonshumway9354]

Your better off without Ian. Quick to get to your point and that point is interesting. Ian does neither.

[@twicethemegapower3995]

It still took Pat 7 minutes to get to the point

[@mikeall7012]

Twice The Mega Power hahah, i was thinking the same thing. im glad he read his google search on TMs to us, lol

[@DarkKnightTrinity]

17 minutes is quick ? Either way, I love Ian.

[@evanschmitt2830]

second

[@ryanmaxwell5311]

First!