Paul Copan Answers, "What does the Bible Say about Slavery?"

[@garymahone1583]

Forbidden to eat Shellfish and Pork ,but not slavery.

[@AndyRhodes1]

William Wilberforce (1759-1833), the famous British abolitionist and Christian, is often brought up as an example of Christianity producing a movement against slavery. The main problem with this view is that nearly everyone in Europe and America was a Christian, the vast majority of whom were not against the practice. A very tiny amount of believers had opposed slavery in the 1500 years that Christianity had dominated Europe since the Emperor Constantine made this religion legal within the Roman Empire in 313 CE/AD. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, European abolitionists learned that biblical passages did not help their cause. They eventually began primarily using secular arguments by necessity. One major reason that it took Wilberforce 46 years to convince his countrymen to complete the abolition process in the British Empire was because a huge percentage of the clergy, government leadership, and the general public stood firmly on the view that slavery and racial inequality were natural, culturally normative, and biblical. Along with their Christian ancestors for hundreds of years that created and sustained New World colonial slavery with biblical justifications, the conservatives in Britain and America were among the main forces that resisted 18th and 19th century abolition laws. During Wilberforce’s sustained and rigorous efforts, it took 20 years (1787-1807) to get the slave trade legally ended and another 26 years (1807-1833) to make slavery itself illegal. Why would God provide such a misleading revelation? Or, in this case, is it more accurate to say that modern Christians developed a more heightened humanitarian sensibility because of the rise of Enlightenment humanism?

[@HearGodsWord]

Curious where there's statistics and proof for some of those opinions.

[@AndyRhodes1]

@@HearGodsWord That information is directly copied out of a very in-depth article I wrote. The piece includes over 80 hyperlinks to writings by historians and other experts. You can find it by searching for "disagreements I have with Christianity Andy Rhodes" The article is called "The Bible Clearly Supports Chattel Slavery Based On Race And Gender". Here's a summary of what the article includes: "This article provides a very detailed account of how many, many biblical passages approve of slavery, including the meaning of “slave” versus “servant”. It demonstrates the ways these texts affected the abolition movement and church history in the three main Christian traditions (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant). A summary is provided of what slavery was like in the ancient Middle East and Roman Empire, based on direct quotes from historians that specialize in those fields. Enlightenment humanism is contrasted with traditional Christianity in its approach to abolition and human rights generally. There are more than 80 hyperlinks that provide references for the claims I make."

[@HearGodsWord]

@@AndyRhodes1 that's nice for you.

[@morlewen7218]

Apologetics are so skillful in twisting the truth.

[@elizaleski9618]

Or And hear me out, you are wrong

[@elizaleski9618]

What is wrong with loving others as yourself? Sure people twist the Bible but that still doesn’t make the Bible wrong. People can be wrong though

[@hughjanus2781]

@@elizaleski9618 Owning people as slaves and being able to beat them isn’t wrong? 🤔

[@Iamwrongbut]

@TheCollctor ignore indentured servitude for a second and just read Leviticus 25:44-46, which legalized BUYING foreigners as slaves. That’s not debt slavery, and they don’t go free after 6 years or at the jubilee like Hebrew slaves. Explain to me how that’s okay.

[@estherfaleye5541]

@@Iamwrongbut That is the Old Covenant. As Christians, although we can learn from it, we don't live under it. It was a shadow of the revelation of Jesus. The New Testament itself said for slave owners to receive slaves as brothers, and for slaves to seek their freedom from human bondage.

[@avalonrainstryder2005]

"Purchase slaves from the heathens around you" they are exactly the same

[@goranmilic442]

Deuteronomy 20:11 talks about slaves in full meaning (it even uses the phrase "forced labor").

[@avalonrainstryder2005]

@@goranmilic442 If you add exodus 21,I call it the magna carta of slavery. The Dos and Donts.

[@goranmilic442]

@@avalonrainstryder2005 Yes, Exodus 21, Leviticus 25, Genesis 17:13, Deuteronomy 20:11. Those are the four places just in Old Testament and there is some in New Testament as well.

[@todbeard8118]

Hebrew servants were not to be treated as slaves. The slaves were the foreigners.

[@9432515]

Slaves are forced. Slaves are held in captivity. Kidnapping is holding another captive. The man stealer to the apostate Hebrew holding another captive is kidnapping them. Right? That is condemned Ex21.16. Eph4.7 says Christ led captivity captive. He paid the price for all in bondage... debt bondage... and set them free, physically and spiritually. Well...God in lev25.44-46...is buying the captive to turn them loose, Deut 29.10-15. That’s the intent. The Bible is God after the world..the Gentiles. Christ given to the Gentiles. The old established what the new covenant fulfilled.

[@todbeard8118]

@@9432515 Again, Hebrew servants couldn't be owned as property for life and were released after 6 years. Leviticus25:44-46 specifically tells you to buy your slaves from the nations around you, they're property for life and you can pass them onto your children as inheritance. That isn't kidnapping moron.

[@todbeard8118]

@@9432515 Read Exodus21:20-21.Tells you how bad you could beat a slave. As long as the slave recovered from the beating in a day or two, the owner wasn't punished since the slave was his property. Chat with atheists who know the bible better than you do more often and you might learn something.

[@9432515]

@@todbeard8118 You start reading that passage at verses 18&19. There you can see the ‘no punishment’ is monetary fines on the apostate Hebrew assaulting a servant. And why is there no punishment?? Because they are already paying all medical, room and board, and any lost wages are his. That’s it. Penalties are still enforced as it says...death for death, eye for eye, tooth for tooth in the avenging laws lev24.17-22. Plus they go free, freed of debt. It’s not only for a destroyed eye or a loss of a tooth. It’s everything in between as it says. Read it you twit.

[@9432515]

@@todbeard8118 Of course it’s not kidnapping. I never said buying someone’s debt was kidnapping. You interpret that sole verse to be forced slavery...as in the individual is held captive ie kidnapping. You pretend these individuals were locked up, chained, in cages etc on the Hebrews farms etc. Where do you get this confirmation from? From the word possession?? From the word inheritance? That could mean AND DOES, something totally different...if you’d read the rest of it. They were paid a wage. How’s that slavery? Colossians 4 King James Version 4 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Look in the concordance. Paul in 2 Corinthians 8:14 confirms it to be pay. Ignore this? These are Gentiles Paul is speaking about...bond servants. They are paying off their debt. It’s all about perpetual debt...financial which symbolizes sin debt that Christ would pay off in full in the New Testament. If you don’t pay it...it remains forever.

[@ivanos_95]

As an honest Christian, I'll admit that slavery is generally one of those practices which have been confirmed as a moral law in the New Covenant, so even though such practices as slave-trading or unfair treatment of the war-captives/criminals are immoral in Christianity, still the slave-labour as a method of compensation, and use of force against a slave are moral options, or in some cases even a necessity for a Christian.

[@garymahone1583]

White Washing The Bible.

[@elizaleski9618]

People come to these videos when they don’t believe the Bible and say the preacher is twisting the word. But it sounds like he is actually trying to find the answers. You are the ones that waste your lives in disbelief if you only could see the love of God and hear his words Believe and abide in His love and He will come in “and eat with you and you with Him” He will have his Spirit of truth come into us and change our hearts, we aren’t conniving, we are loving others as Christ loved us. Or we are supposed to anyway

[@elizaleski9618]

I’m sorry for the lack of biblical scripture references, places to find them. But Google will help with that if need be

[@hughjanus2781]

They are flat out liars trying to make excuses for the immoral acts carried out in that barbaric Bronze Age Fairytale.

[@elizaleski9618]

@@hughjanus2781 I hope you approach the Bible with a seeking of the truth and not a judgmental mindset. Otherwise the whole time you read you will be denying the reality of it. God is just and love. Completely justice and complete in his love. That’s why he sent His son Jesus. Jesus is God and Jesus came as a baby on this earth through a virgin, her name was Mary, to be made into flesh so that he can live a perfect life, do miracles to show He is God, be the fulfillment of the law, (aka perfect) give his life and because sin has no hold on him because He never sinned that made His sacrifice able to save us because when we believe in Christ we become the body of Christ, that made it so we have the perfect blood that Christ shed, over us whenever God (the father) looks at us. So we can have a relationship and abide in God by loving. This is the most real thing out there. No lies about it my friend. I have the Holy Spirit inside me. Just because you don’t believe it. Doesn’t mean we are liars I hope and pray you won’t be hardening your heart against God. He is love. He is just. If you think He isn’t then I mean,,, He’s God... He has a just reason and loving reason for every thing that happens, if you don’t thing The One who made the galaxy 🌌 can’t make some animals walk onto a boat then flood the earth then idk man. You put a limit on an infinite being. His love is more than we can comprehend. I hope you believe His word and don’t deny Christ because He is the way the truth and the life. If you reject that the only thing left is lies and death. The way to hell The place where God places all unforgiven people

[@ijaripanju3408]

@@elizaleski9618 why not judge the book that claims we will be judged also . Its only fair

[@ijaripanju3408]

@TheCollctor if my morals come from him then what are you arguing with me about . And nobody is twisting anything when one can read the scripture and plainly see what it says . Unless its saying something its not ( thats whats called twisting words) . Are you saying that thou shall not kill is actually saying thou shall kill? As when it says thou shall buy slaves from the heathen among you its actually saying not too?

[@elizaleski9618]

Proverbs 1 verse seven says “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction” that’s real life

[@Bugsy0333]

Exodus 21:20-21 New International Version 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

[@ladellallen3155]

This should be interesting

[@goozfrabah579]

If you poke his eye you can let him go free? Really are you even listening to yourself? That's awful!!

[@YouSingHymns]

This is a really good talk but why is there so much spam in the comments?

[@marthaj67]

It's full of spam and God-haters. When you start taking a great deal of flak from the enemy, that's how you know you're right over the target.

[@Iamwrongbut]

Probably because of Leviticus 25:44-46

[@goranmilic442]

@@Iamwrongbut Deuteronomy 20:11 talks about slaves in full meaning (it even uses the phrase "forced labor").

[@Iamwrongbut]

@@goranmilic442 and?

[@goranmilic442]

@@Iamwrongbut And that's more proof Bible endorse slavery.

[@mramirez5239]

"Servant" for "Slave" in regard to Israel in Egypt...???...equating the Egyptian servants to real slaves (the Hebrew people of the time) and trying to say the Hebrews were only servants like the Egyptians? I don't think so! 400 years of slavery and oppression wasn't God delivering an entire people out of serving tables for Pharoh. Come on...

[@9432515]

Don’t think that’s what he’s saying in the video at all. He’s saying the correct translation should be bond servant not ever slave, as slave is forced servitude and forced captivity. The kidnapper holds the individual captive, whether that’s the man stealer or the apostate Hebrew with a captive slave on his farm. All slave traders are condemned by scripture Ex21.16. Debt bondage is voluntary and that evidence is all over scripture. Many examples of servants freed after their debt was paid off. They earned a wage. Debt was canceled in the jubilee for all inhabitants it says...Christ paid the price for all in bondage..DEBT bondage.. and set us all free, physically and spiritually. So, when it says MAY buy and CAN bequeath in lev25.44-46 it’s choice of the Gentiles. A loan. Or they could serve out permanently...again by choice like the Hebrews could too. Colossians 4 King James Version 4 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Look in the concordance. Paul in 2 Corinthians 8:14 confirms it to be pay

[@Iamwrongbut]

@@9432515 Colossians is Roman slavery, not ancient Hebrew slavery. They cannot be compared because they are SO different. Talk about taking passages out of context haha

[@9432515]

@idiot above Paul is speaking to the church...the Hebrew or Gentile with a bond servant...’pay them equally’.

[@Iamwrongbut]

@@9432515 nice. So explain how that has anything to do with the Old Testament.

[@9432515]

The Hebrews were allowed to buy Gentiles debt from the Old Testament.

[@garymahone1583]

The condones slavery period.

[@KC-fb8ql]

Paul Copan is the go-to guy for the apologists on this issue and this is his best?

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

I that Stand To Reason had no confidence in their nonsense about morality. Comments are turned off A sign that they knew they were pushing pure unsupportable rubbish. Moral come from men and we no longer tolerate slavery, the Bible not only fully supports it it demanded it in many instances. The Bible FULLY supports CHATTEL slavery. As long as the victims of slavery were not both Jewish and male it was IDENTICAL to American Chattel slavery. Why did you guys lie about this? Oh right you lied that morals come from imaginary god of the Bible. Yeah its imaginary. There may be a god but all testable gods fail testing and since there was no Great Flood, Jehovah fails testing. Ethelred Hardrede

[@goranmilic442]

If Bible says you can beat them, kill them, inherit them, is that voluntary servants or slaves? Who would like to be a slave of me under Leviticus rules? Salvation guaranteed.

[@9432515]

Well, if it said that you might be right. It doesn’t say that. If it’s not forced...it’s not slavery.

[@goranmilic442]

@@9432515 Bible says you can hit slave, but he must not die from that. And, although voluntary servitude is also mentioned, forced slavery is also there.

[@9432515]

@@goranmilic442 it’s referencing the avenging laws. Exodus was written on the way, literally to that land. Lev24.17-22 & Deut 19.21 ARE these avenging laws Ex21 is talking about. And it says ANY human will payback in equal, from death to death to blemish to blemish and everything in between it says. Payback PLUS (Ex21.24-27) they are freed of all debt and sent home. You are cherry picking and leaving out the rest of scripture. Read it properly

[@hughjanus2781]

@@9432515 You are the one who is cherry picking

[@9432515]

@@hughjanus2781 Really? How so? The title of the book is covenant, old covenant new covenant. A covenant is a marriage proposal. Christ in this proposal led captivity captive after His death on the cross it says. Eph4.7. You are redeemed from slavery of the devil...to be a servant of God. His yoke easy, His burden light it says. Matt11.28 Isaiah 10.27 Christ was given to the world. That’s the Gentiles. The intent ARE the Gentiles redeemed or bought from out of debt bondage of sin, which is perpetual unless paid in full. That’s the entire message of God...yet somehow you think God’s out to promote slavery and forced servitude? Get some reading comprehension please

[@ayedatsnemo-0457]

when you read these passages yll have to know that times have changed and the way things work back thn don't line up with today's standards. Trying to compare ancient Israel theocracy to Present democracy.

[@HeyJuuude-05]

Morality doesn’t change. God doesn’t change.

[@Happymind-happyworld.]

God should then update his book because there are a lot of people still leaving by the Bible. For example prosecuting women’s sexual expression, girls in those days hot married as young as 15 years. Women nowadays get married in their 30s. Or don’t get married at all but they are still prosecuted depending on what their family or environment believes

[@ayedatsnemo-0457]

@@Happymind-happyworld. but the bible is updated. Its about makn sure u gt the right version

[@Bugsy0333]

@@HeyJuuude-05 Morals are rule sets to organize humans living together in groups. These rules need to change if the living conditions of the group change. And since our living conditions change constantly, morals change constantly albeit slowly. As for God i see no evidence for his/her existence.

[@TRH982]

To me it just boils down to the difference in worldviews. Believers think/know that every single person is always a slave to something simply just existing in this world. Its only a matter of to what degree. Non-believers just think otherwise, and base it on preferences between different social contracts. Also doesn't help in discussions that just the word "slave" is such an emotionally loaded term.

[@Bugsy0333]

In your opinion is one person owning another person as there property moral ? How about Leviticus 25:26 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. In your opinion is this moral to you ?

[@TRH982]

@@Bugsy0333 Since you're just posing a loaded question, how about this to you: what exactly about it makes it immoral? (No insults or emotional outbursts please.)

[@Bugsy0333]

Can I get you to answer the question please ? It's a simple yes or no answer. With all due respect sir you leaving having to ask the question is an insult.

[@TRH982]

@@Bugsy0333 No. Not interested in simple yes or no questions. Sorry if you feel insulted.

[@Bugsy0333]

@@TRH982 We do.You were aware that your response was far from normal when you said (No insults or emotional outbursts please.) You will defend your God of the Bible at any cost.Moral or not is not your choice it is his. This is the power and destruction of Religion. 1.Power 2. Fear

[@HearGodsWord]

Yep, 21st century presuppositions get in the way of what's actually true.

[@HearGodsWord]

@@AtamMardes you've pasted that many times before and never dealt with my responses.