Paul Ehrlich on The Population Bomb, Climate Change, and the Ethics of Extinction

[@alexedgar6539]

So many people don't want to take the bitter medicine of the truth.

[@alexedgar6539]

But wealthier people know, and still participate in maximum consumption. Bless them. And people have always been capable of aestheticism , even if poor.

[@roberthornack1692]

You can't have infinite growth on a finite planet with finite resources! This should be a no-brainer for anyone who is not in denial! Extinction is the norm not the exception & that includes humans!

[@staubach1979rt]

So what?

[@Aanthanur]

the problem is that we are nowhere near any shortage of any resources except water and even there its not a shortage of water but shortage of energy or money. the finite sources argument is sofar hypothetical, yes in theory you are right, but then, there is enough resources especially once we can mine stuff off our planet.

[@gmw3083]

There's no planet. Space is a presentation. We're the mitochondria inside a perpetual motion machine with the black hole sun engine of creation at the core.

[@gmw3083]

There's no planet. Space is fake. Enjoy the show.

[@kurtniznik8116]

@@Aanthanur Whle you gloss over a lot of the challenges of resources including vital things like soil productivity you're ignoring the other end of it which is the capacity of the planet to absorb our waste. We're already breathing drinking and eating microplastics every day and we're frequently breathing and bathing in a brew of toxic waste from our industrial processes and fuel burning.

[@Clem62]

I remember driving on the highway 40 years ago and my windshield would be covered in the guts of hundreds of insects. Now, it's almost nothing. In the alpine I've seen and more heard thousands of bees on the heather in the Spring. In my city which is covered in gardens I only see a bee here and there.

[@Aanthanur]

yes, and seeing a butterfly is a sensation nowadays.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

Fireflies too.

[@jonahansen]

Is it the same car?

[@JamesBurke713]

I'm not sure why Michael released this interview to the general public. There are several moments where Shermer tries to divert the conversation by interrupting Paul with another question before Paul is allowed to provide a full explanation of his position on issues that Shermer obviously becomes very uncomfortable with. Not only is it rude but it is an insidious form of censorship.

[@sanle7515]

Shermer seems to be uncomfortable with, say, the guest's equivalence of Trumpism with Nazis, but he deflects/diverts the subject in a mild-mannered way that has the effect of a Thanksgiving dinner chat being steered by an overbearing host. Not the best thing for Truth, but we can hear and see the guest's full views elsewhere. 'Censorship' is a government constraint on speech - Shermer owns his channel so he can do what he wants on it.

[@Xen_sama]

I would like to see Michael interview people like William Rees and Nate Hagens

[@jonahansen]

What would be really far out would be if he would interview a Martian!

[@mkkrupp2462]

I agree ! Especially William Rees who is a fabulous communicator and originator of the ‘ecological footprint’ concept.

[@d.r.tweedstweeddale9038]

Much appreciate you having Ehrlich on your show. Somewhat uplifting to listen to a scientist who absolutely knows what's what. Too bad no one's listening. It's over either way now.

[@Aanthanur]

he is a great example of why a scientist should never be overly alarmist.

[@BlackBeltMonkeySong]

He's a prefect mixture of confusion and intelligence. For example, if only we had a wealth of economics data on redistribution we could know... oh wait. We do. It's horrific for the people and the environment. The issue with declining birth rates is that it's happening too quickly. It's happening too slowly for the news cycle, but way way faster than, for example, climate change. Compare, for example, South Korea, which will have 4 grandchildren for every 100 people currently alive. That's 2 generations... 50-60 years. Climate change is more the 200-1000 year time frame depending on the model.

[@Aanthanur]

@@BlackBeltMonkeySong declining birth rates are no problem, its just racist that worry not enough white people are reproducing. its purely racism.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

@@BlackBeltMonkeySong100-200 years is extremely optimistic as we’ve passed at minimum three tipping points and there is no going back.

[@BlackBeltMonkeySong]

@@dermotmeuchner2416 Oh sure, I agree with you regarding tipping points. Still, we'll see population collapse long before the earth burns up -- and the earth may still burn up. Think about this a little further though: as population collapse accelerates, what do you think will be happening on the world? Is it more likely that we continue into an uber-high technology society that solves all manor of problems, or economies collapse, we start burning lignite just to get by, and realpolitick plays out as war and mayhem.

[@billg9502]

Great discussion Paul .I read your book years ago and I agree . We are in overshoot because of overpopulation . The elites don,t believe that you can,t have infinite growth on a finate planet .

[@angharadllewellyn2192]

I read Paul Ehrlich’s book, “The Population Bomb”, in the 1970s. Based on his book, I decided NOT to have children. I’m now 74, and not one day to I regret my decision.

[@YashArya01]

Ehrlich, like his intellectual guru Thomas Malthus, was and is completely wrong about overpopulation. Sorry your major life decisions were based on a lie. It may take a lot of courage to accept it, but you can help dispel this lie for the next generations. Listen to Jordan Peterson's interview with the authors of Superabundance, who refute Ehrlich thoroughly.

[@homewall744]

Being the end of the family tree branch is hardly a great accomplishment. The population still is much higher than it was back then, so you didn't solve high population at all.

[@fifthgear93]

For you it might've worked. Or you could be unable to evaluate the outcome objectively as you only had 1 experience in this life and you're unable to compare what could've been if you had the other type of experience. One thing is for sure - when most old people get asked "what was the happiest thing that happened in your life" they always say that children gave them the most amount of joy and fulfilment in life.

[@tuckerbugeater]

lol

[@ibmor7674]

@@fifthgear93not really…lots of parents regret having kids and lots of kids regret having parents

[@mikeharrington5593]

Disappointing that Shermer chose (albeit mischievously) to bait Ehlich on why can't everyone be wealthy, knowing full well we do not have the planetary resources for 8 billion to live the Shermer lifestyle.

[@Aanthanur]

which resources do we lack?

[@chadreilly]

@@Aanthanur Oil, fresh water, topsoil, fish...

[@chadreilly]

I noticed Shermer's mischievous, or should I say impish, grin as he did so. It's interesting. I haven't followed Shermer as of late, does he even know full well? Dishonesty and stupidity are very hard to tell apart as of late, but the grin might be telling.

[@Xen_sama]

​@@Aanthanur energy, minerals, supporting ecosystems. The wealthy lifestyle is fuelled by relatively large consumption of these resources compared to a poor lifestyle (think a wealthy european vs an average african). Even now, the level of consumption is already completely unsustainable, meaning we are quickly depleting these resources and the future generations will have harder time meeting their needs. Making the whole 8 billion population consume at a level of top 1% is, on the one hand, impossible due resource constraints, and on the other, will lead to catastrophic consequences much faster, if you somehow find a way to overcome these constraints.

[@dannylifted]

@@Xen_sama Polution in poor countries in someways is more than rich countries though. Sub Saharan Africa cooks most their food by burning wood and coal. That contributes to climate change and deforestation far more than a European's electric stove does.

[@chadreilly]

I feel like Shermer does not understand "finite" resources. And it seems his thoughts have degraded into parroted slogans like, "I'm pro human," or "rich people care more about the environment." Which is interesting as I thought his books, back in the day were good. So what gives? Alcoholism?

[@YashArya01]

Try listening to a strong case against this Malthusian view. I would start with Jordan Peterson's interview with the authors of Superabundance. Search for "Jordan Peterson Superabundance."

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@YashArya01 jordan Peterson is just a fake internet meme dude. Paul Erlich is a real scientist researcher. Try googlescholar and search the phrase "biological annihilation."

[@toadvine9264]

I've been around some real bad drunks, and I've never seen one, even one in an advanced state of inebriation, devolve into Bjorn Lomborg talking points.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@toadvine9264 My dad had me read The Skeptical Environmentalist when my dad was drinking heavily. It's a stupid book. I also worked for Greenpeace only I didn't leverage it into a corporate brown-no$ing gig.

[@chadreilly]

@@toadvine9264 LOL, I'm not saying he's drunk now. But that there seems to have been some mental simplification since he wrote, How We Believe. Maybe it's libertarian audience capture, with increased emphasis of doing whatever you want, and disbelieving that it's hurting other people. And I really used to like him. I saw him debate Dwaine T Gish himself, years ago in Phoenix.

[@sherrydionisio4306]

Thank you, Paul.

[@toadvine9264]

"If we continue these considerations to the bitter end, then the conclusion is not in doubt. As long as humankind recklessly proceeds in the fateful delusion of being biologically fated for triumph, nothing essential will change. As its numbers mount and the spiritual atmosphere thickens, the techniques of protection must assume an increasingly brutal character." -- Zapffe

[@Dullday57]

Anosognosia: A condition where a person is unable to recognize a problem.

[@deninetate]

Uh oh. No one warned Dr. Ehlich that Michael is a dedicated Trumper now. Did you notice how he squirmed when Dr. Ehlich criticized Trump, Elon, the rich, or the GOP?

[@brodeize]

That is very good to hear. Elrich is one of the worst "scientist" out there to ever existed. Only writes end of the world stories.

[@sanle7515]

it's what happens when as you get middle-aged (or older) and comfortable ... you become complacent

[@vickibicknell884]

Nonsense. Shermer is no Trumper.

[@hueyiroquois3839]

18:34 I think that's one of the most important issues of the day. And I'm not just biased because of being in my 60s.

[@edsmith9846]

Human greed will destroy us all.

[@gmw3083]

Quit civilization before it breaks down

[@gmw3083]

Quit Babylon

[@xXxTeenSplayer]

I think it's the super organism that we've created whose very nature is "greedy" that's at the heart of it. True human nature is inherently properly aligned.

[@dannylifted]

@@xXxTeenSplayer It's really not. Humans want status for more mates and status, same way chimps and wolves do.

[@sanle7515]

​@@xXxTeenSplayer​properly aligned to what?

[@mpetry912]

this will be a good one MIchael ! esteeemed and honored guest !

[@mdombroski]

A self-esteemed guest.

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@mdombroski nihilistic strategy

[@gautingmusik9561]

14:00 Population in a few places is actually declining and that is wonderful news. fact-60 uh because they of course the the problem isn't the number of people as a number it's what each one consumes how much Plastics each one demands how much 14:24 and 24:00

[@mattborowy9019]

What an insufferable crank. Michael is extremely patient and gracious! Next.

[@Aanthanur]

Shermer the climate change underestimater interviewing a climate change pessimist (likely realist)

[@Aanthanur]

yeah i hate Musk's mars fetish, its idiotic and stupid and shows his huge ignorance.

[@mikeharrington5593]

We have already tried a form of terraforming experiment here on Earth, where (quite unlike Mars) we already have breathable air & an atmospheric pressure suitable for human physiology. That experimental project labelled Biosphere-2 (in the hospitable environment of Oracle, Arizona) was abandoned as a failure. Musk's childlike oversimplification of all things Mars, airbrushes out what a totally hazardous environment it is, to attempt terraforming for human habitation. A dream is one thing, but Musk lives in a child's comic fantasy world.

[@gmw3083]

Musk is a clown

[@Aanthanur]

@@gmw3083 no, clowns make me laugh, not facepalm.

[@gmw3083]

@@Aanthanur I never liked clowns. They've always been weird

[@Aanthanur]

@@gmw3083 now that i think about it, yeah even as kid, clowns did not make me laugh or very rarely.

[@Aanthanur]

1:04:46 interesting to see shermer call protesters extremists for blocking roads or throwing soup at glas protected copies of famous paintings. to me, those that care more about an old painting than our climate are the extremists. Shermer is getting worse with age.

[@sanle7515]

@Aanthanur - protestors should learn to protest without defacing property or creating problems for people who don't have a dog in their fight.

[@Aanthanur]

@@sanle7515 aah, with climate we all have a dog in the fight. you seem to not understand the goal of protests.

[@sanle7515]

@@Aanthanur if the tree-huggers were serious about saving the planet / humanity / etc., they'd stop with the public-facing stunts and actually work on solutions. Perhaps they'd need to co-operate with the 'Corporate Elite' to make it so - we all have some ownership stake in the future after all. I don't have a problem with dissent per se, but people making demands without offering a plan to solve their demands - whether it's pro-Palestine, pro-BLM, pro-whatever - is just NOISE.

[@MichaelWolfe1000]

Hold it, here in Mexico we have troubles, but we in general are not as miserable as you imply! So when Paul says living in a Mexican standard is not all doom and gloom...homeless in the US aren't having a great time either!...also people don't have to be that "wealthy" to have decreased birth rates...just look at the statistics. Sounds more like not wanting to let go and assuming you really need what you have when you don't really.

[@Wambamdoozle]

Yeah well racist failed doomsday prophets can be like that

[@rickmcentee9204]

The obvious futility in predicting future events based on current trends is stated at the bottom of every prospectus.

[@toadvine9264]

Why is drunk driving illegal?

[@DanielAlvarez-x3k]

Do not ever EVER EVER pay attention to those who announce apocalypse. They have always been wrong and they will always be wrong. Specially when by doing so, try to dictate you how you should live, and try to enforce it on you whether you like it or not... and when the way they tell you you should live, funnily enough, perfectly fits a certain ideology that happens to be their own...

[@toadvine9264]

Just listen to the types that say all is well like Fred Singer and Rich Lindzen. Smoking is as safe, global warming is good.

[@yamishogun6501]

@@toadvine9264 Physicist/climate scientist Steve Koonin also says the "climate crisis" is a "nothing burger" They are correct.

[@Aanthanur]

@@yamishogun6501 LOL koonin is a nothingburger in science. he sold out.

[@DanielAlvarez-x3k]

@@toadvine9264 I'd rather listen to types like Hans Rosling, who's not as idiot as to think that all is well, but is intelligent enough to understand that things tend to improve and that apocalypse prophets have always been wrong...

[@HugoNewman]

Saying Richard Lindzen is saying “all is well” is a complete strawman.

[@user-ch4mm7dy3g]

I had zero expectations and I'm still let down is the perfect description of listening to Paul Elrich. Just a delusional communist 1hr rant

[@kk-xj5oz]

The problem today is the focus on carbon, when we should really be focusing on biodiversity. As long as we have a living Planet the carbon emissions doesn't do much, but if we destroy the worlds ability to absorb the emissions than all carbon emissions will be problematic.

[@peterkerruish8136]

Michael your guest is a font of wisdom!, Thankyou.

[@SusanTrishelMonson]

I❤U Dr. E! 💐💐💐

[@d.r.tweedstweeddale9038]

You don't listen, Shermer.

[@Muonium1]

I really went into this with a fully open mind, ready to hear anything. I leave thinking something that many others before me have thought, namely that "some people are just horrible, insufferable shits". It's not merely that he's a wretched pessimistic doomer, it's that even here in this interview he revels in his pessimism, he delights in it, and he actually expresses regret that the most genocidally misanthropic fantasies of his youth DIDN'T come true, because the pleasure of his being right about a morbid human fate for us all is more important to him than the incalculable suffering of billions of people. That's just plain contemptible and awful.

[@Aanthanur]

wgen he wrote the population bomb, we were on the way to his predicted doom, we worked against those problems. and other stuff saved us, like the green revolution. i prefer someone warning us instead of ignorant fools that would just run into doom because they dont think about stuff.

[@gmw3083]

Naw. You're a Skeptic fan. Not an actual skeptic.

[@Muonium1]

@@gmw3083 oh look, another zero content account who's thoughts I couldn't care less about if my life depended on it.

[@gmw3083]

@@Muonium1 Good thing neither of us depends on or will ever meet the other. Congratulations on having content and over a thousand subs. That would be too much responsibility for me. I would feel obligated. I think all the time about videos I could do. But I have my own life to live and barely enough time to live it..

[@MrBallynally2]

Indeed. Ehrlich is on the shortlist of the most contemptable wrongheaded people which includes Margaret Mead. Textbook examples of stupidity.

[@edsmith9846]

There are times when I get tired of hearing people want all-people to be-wealth so people will be “happy”. This is bull shit. Happening mentality has nothing to be with how financial weather any person is. The most miserable people I have ever met were the richest people I also met.

[@dbadagna]

Because of the weight of their batteries, electric vehicles weigh considerably more than conventional vehicles, and thus produce more tire wear. Although it's largely invisible, microplastic pollution from tire wear is a serious problem, and a recent study showed that not only are most people consuming microplastic in their diet, human brain tissue has been found to consist of 0.5% plastic by weight.

[@Aanthanur]

Tires are not plastic

[@dbadagna]

​@@Aanthanur On the contrary, tires are a major source of microplastic pollution, second only to single-use plastics. The development of synthetic rubber (which is a plastic polymer), particularly during World War II, marked a turning point in tire manufacturing. While natural rubber remained a key component, the integration of synthetic materials began in earnest during the mid-20th century. When the synthetic rubber in tires breaks down into tiny particles, it is indeed considered microplastic pollution, as you could easily verify from doing a little research on this topic on your own. Every year, billions of vehicles around the world shed an estimated 6 million tons of microplastics. The average person emits 0.23 to 4.7 kg of microplastics per year from tires. Tire particles contribute significantly to global microplastic pollution, affecting soil, water, and wildlife. Despite their growing impact, they remain largely unaddressed in environmental policies and solutions.

[@Aanthanur]

@@dbadagna i stand corrected

[@YashArya01]

11:40 Response: Prof. Antony Davies - 5 Myths About Inequality

[@YashArya01]

12:35 Ehrlich's basic solution to the biodiversity loss that overpopulation poses: Depopulation and redistribution. Fewer bodies, and taking better care of everybody. The issue is never the point, the point is always Socialism.

[@YashArya01]

16:42 Remarkably negative way of describing the "hockey stick curve of human prosperity" or the "great enrichment." - acknowledges that fossil fuels played a key role in this growth, and instead of appreciating fossil fuels, hates the growth (supposedly for argument of inequality).

[@YashArya01]

17:35 calls GOP the American N@zi party. Good on Michael for pushing back.

[@YashArya01]

24:00 "Giving humanity an infinite source of cheap energy would be like giving an idiot child the machine gun." The dripping misanthropy..

[@YashArya01]

25:06 "It's not that I'm against electric vehicles, I'm against having too many of them. I'm against giving them only to really rich people. I'm actually against everybody owning a separate electric vehicle, because if we had a sensible society, we would develop it differently. We would have more sharing of private vehicles..." LOL! The lack of self-awareness is unbelievable. Too few electric cars? Bad. Everyone has an electric car? Also bad. Gotta be some magic number the central planners decide for the rest of us, amirite? The issue is never the point, the point is always socialism.

[@d.r.tweedstweeddale9038]

Ignore reality at your peril, humans, the clock is ticking & time has nearly run out! You cannot have all your "cake" if you consume it all!

[@Aanthanur]

technology allows us to have the cake and eat it.

[@Xen_sama]

​@@Aanthanur technology just enables the faster eating and access to more parts of the cake. The cake here is the planet’s natural capital that sustains our civilisation.

[@Aanthanur]

@@Xen_sama so? we have so much resources its just irresponsible to claim we lack resources while you are living in luxury. we do not lackk a single resource to have 10 billion living on the same level as Europe. you seem to ignore that we are recycling our resources for literally 1000's of years now. parts of the copper delivering power to your PC may have been one of the copper tools the ancient egyptians used to cut stone for the pyramids. or the steel of your kitchen sink may have been a part of a Katana of a famous samurai. you kumbaiaa treehuggers need to face reality.

[@merikariu]

Mr. Shermer... 😂 You're trying to be a rosy pro-capitalist in the face of extinction, but you do you.

[@Aanthanur]

we face no extinction, we face a climate crisis that we are solving , a bt later than planned but it will neither lead to the collapse of civilisation nor lead to our extinction, and capitalism is still the best way to do things. all others very way worse and are prone to be abused as they have been every single time.

[@merikariu]

@Aanthanur LOL. And you think that capitalism isn't being abused???

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

@@Aanthanurbro I’ll have what you’re imbibing.

[@Aanthanur]

@@merikariu ofc its abused, but its not as bad as in comminuist / socialist countries, capitalism made us all better off.

[@merikariu]

@Aanthanur I have lived in Japan and it's a better civilization with better infrastructure and medical care than the USA. There aren't mass shootings or school shootings. There aren't police shooting people for no reason. The USA is looking more like Mexico or Russia every day with social welfare falling apart. Poor people are hurting badly to afford food while rich people take private jets to golf tournaments.

[@thewefactor1]

How do you know its 8 billion and not 10 billion already?

[@thewefactor1]

I like Paul's thoughts and feeling about these matters and he has said a lot in this limited time-frame here. You have an opportunity to learn from the guest...

[@Wambamdoozle]

I don't understand why we're listening to a guy whose entire life's work has been proven wrong

[@GlobeHackers]

Just call your buddy Steven Pinker; he'll cheer you up. Homo hubris will be fine, and in a few more years, there will be NFL franchises all over Europe and a Disney Land outside Moscow. Talk with Clive Spash sometime.

[@toadvine9264]

Our better angels demand it be so, Gawd Bless.

[@staubach1979rt]

This fool actually said that fossil fuels are killing us. This cat cannot be taken seriously after a statement like that.

[@Aanthanur]

burning fossil fuels are used mostly for luxury and not survival or emergency. its mostly luxury and millions of people each year are dying because we are too lazy to walk even inside towns, we take 4 ton cars to drive 1 Km instead of taking a bike or walk. this literally kills people. yeah we know that fossil fuels are also saving and allowing millions more to survive but fossil fuels are killing especially if we waste em on luxury. often we waste tons of fossil fuels just so the car sound louder and has tons of horsepowers that are not needed. that literally kills people.

[@staubach1979rt]

@ You don’t know the scope of fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are involved in almost everything in one form or another, not just for burning. Fossil fuels extend lives, they do not cost them.

[@Aanthanur]

@@staubach1979rt i do undesrtand fossil fuels very well, i am well aware that most of our fertilizers are coming from fossil fuels, but not from burning them. and i expecially point out that most fossil fuels are burned for luxuryy and not necessety. mostly for things we like and prefer not things we need to survive. but many people have this kneee jerk reaction like you have and hide their bad destructive habbits behind the good things FFs brought us and ignore the millions sacrifice for our first world luxury.

[@Aanthanur]

@@staubach1979rt you are aware that your contry agreed to phase out fossil fuel burning?

[@staubach1979rt]

@@Aanthanur Literally, you know nothing about fossil fuels and how they are incorporated into human’s daily lives if you continue to dwell on the burning of them. Sit on the toilet and look around. There will not be one thing that your eyes set upon in the room that fossil fuels haven’t been involved in. Not one.

[@quantumkath]

This video was difficult to listen to. After each point Paul Ehrlich makes, it feels necessary to counter his claims, as they are quite controversial. Michael Shermer does his best at what he does best! Ehrlich acknowledges that we are not perfect predictors yet expresses a strong and unwavering viewpoint. His outlook coming into this interview is quite pessimistic, yet it ends with hope if we listen to him.

[@mikebetts2046]

There's a word that describes that behavior. "Debate"

[@quantumkath]

​@@mikebetts2046We could not predict the ill effects of the emergence of the automobile. How about stalling AI? The emergence may cause ill effects, too. Or let's keep debating optimistically. Let's be positive that the good outweighs the bad.

[@THEPATRIOT1000]

Dr. Sowell said Paul is a false prophet. P.T Barnum would have been proud at all the suckers he created.

[@jerryvincent4727]

I'm not in the choir he's preaching to. But, interesting to hear what he thinks.

[@tuckerbugeater]

he's speaking to the hitler/stalin/mao crowd

[@gautingmusik9561]

14:31 There are too many rich people not too many poor people in the world. fact-61

[@DanielAlvarez-x3k]

“I was wrong and I accept it” (And then proceeds to explain that in fact he was right (but for a few minor details, LOL) and repeats all his mistakes, his marxist-inspired pseudo-scientific statements and proves that you can be brilliant on an specific field whereas you are utterly ignorant about… well… pretty much everything else).

ON DECK: The water wars of extermination. IN THE HOLE: The wars of extinction.

[@gautingmusik9561]

24:02 Giving Humanity a Infinite Source of cheap energy would be like giving an idiot child a machine gun it would just finish Paving the Earth with asphalt and covering with electric cars. fact-62

[@johnpapadopoulos9057]

Refreshing seeing, listening to Paul Ehrlich. Modern day Socrates.

[@Wambamdoozle]

He has been wrong about everything

[@fifthgear93]

Paul Ehrlich is basically promoting social engineering and economic engineering that fits the environmental and political goals set by scientific consensus. He is a guy that probably would've liked Jacques Fresco's RBE - Resource Based Economy idea. An economic system where resources are distributed based on people's needs and based on scientifically agreed and environmentally conscious goals. Unfortunately any attempt at social engineering and a world run by science is inherently doomed since science is always changing and the conclusions of data can always be interpreted in ways that have a morally negative outcomes. This is why any society has to be run by morality and philosophical ideals and beliefs, not "science". Maybe there is a mathematically optimal way to run a society, but it all depends on what criteria you have for judging success though. Maybe engineering society to have less humans is optimal for long term survival but it could also infringe on individual liberty and have morally questionable outcomes. I would certainly would not want a government to be able to tell me I cannot have more children or raise my taxes by 50% if I do. This all comes down to individualistic vs collectivist values. Maybe what is good for me personally isn't good for the collective, and vice versa, what is good for the collective isn't good for me. Is it morally acceptable to infringe on individual rights in order to help the collective? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. I do not have the answer to this question, but I certainly don't like the idea of telling people what to do with their lives.

[@ibmor7674]

Instead of Plato’s “philosopher king” we need an nicomachean ethical philosopher like Aristotle that’s also a scientific genius to lead us, lol. JK Good comment.

[@Aanthanur]

he said on a global network of computers which is the result of science based governance.

[@Aanthanur]

i wonder why such anti science sentiments are so pupular on the internet of all places and the USA they even elect anti science fools into office.

[@Hercolobus1]

Paul Ehlrich, still wrong about almost everything after all these years. Too bad we don't have Julian Simon among us.

[@winstonjen5360]

Should we keep breeding until every square inch is filled with people?

[@sanle7515]

@@winstonjen5360 Mother Nature has a safeguard against that: our impulse toward war.

[@septopus3516]

I wonder what the next term is going to be after climate change… once the carbon tax is enacted, a new threat will emerge; “Magnetic shift” or something similar.

[@Aanthanur]

you are an ifiot. we pay CO2 tax for many years and still call it climate change. you conspiracy theorists make zero sense at all and are just ignorant fools that think they are smarter than most others.

[@youngmossy69]

Micro plastics and whatever other dumb buzzwords these idiots are throwing around this thread

[@Rational863]

Oh boy this ought to be interesting.....

[@MrBallynally2]

It is and always will be: in 5 to 10 years time..1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s 2010s 2020s, up to 2030, and have him on again to say, well, in 5 to 10 years time..😄

[@coolworx]

I like Paul. But Paul is a little high on his own supply.

It is merit based.

[@youngmossy69]

This whole conversation is like peering into the past… This guy has, i hate to have to say it, gives the distinct impression of someone whos never read any arguments against own positions.. he sounds like a preacher whos gotten the date of the rapture wrong so many times he needs to move his tent to the next village.. i feel like a museum curator… shhh hush children its a snake oil salesman.. dont touch

[@ThisGuy291]

I did a book report on The Population Bomb, in High School, back in the late '60s/early '70s (I forget what grade I was in then). I'm glad he was wrong. :-)

[@billg9502]

He was actually right ,we are in overshoot because we are so overpopulated .Can,t you see how bad for the average human are living . Civilization is collapsing thanks to the mega rich .

[@billg9502]

Great conversation Paul . I read your book many years ago .You can,t have infinite growth on a finite planet . We are in overshoot .

[@youngmossy69]

@@billg9502you know jehovahs witnesses have predicted the end of times since their inception and each time their predictions dont come true they double down and say things just like this… religions are funny things

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

😂 'morbidly rich'!

[@bkrein]

How many times does it take for Ehrlich to be empirically proven wrong for him to fade out already?

[@jonnash5196]

For him to ask are borders ethical surprise me and seem to show a lack of intelligence

[@marcprezeau4407]

Doomer dooming then the incapability to hold back from going with Nozis .At this point you have lost any credibility. Go take a long walk on a short pier.

[@markbyerly9094]

His last remaining slivers of credibility went out the window with that “GOP = Nazis” nonsense. Can’t take this guy anywhere, I guess!

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the Nazis thought they were cool crap also.

[@sappereaude]

Buy yourself a history book or attend school and you certainly will understand his point!

[@markbyerly9094]

I’ll share the book and attend school with Michael Shermer, who also scoffed (heavily) at that absurd comment.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@markbyerly9094 Germany's fascist regime was propped up by U.S. Steel's partnership with I.G. Farben and Prescott Bush's banking investments for the regime in the U.S. Certainly the same international corporate fascist regime based on genocidal slave labor and environmental destruction exists still today. The U.S. has 750 military bases in other countries but the military has been privatized for tax-funded contractor CEOs making $30 million a year. Drumpf is no different.

[@lauramarkee5536]

I find Shermer's attitude annoying. Dr. Ehrlich speaks with the gravity the topics deserve.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

Paul Ehrlich has always been wrong.

[@mikeharrington5593]

Yeah he had hoped that humanity would heed the warnings of Overshoot,

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the problem with biological annihilation is we won't be around to whine about how we got proved wrong.

[@killa3x]

This guy is a batshit crazy leftist😂.. Didn't know he was this nuts. Too old to reason with him. Dead wrong on his population bomb but just doubles down on it. 😂😂Who is this team of experts that agree with him? I would like to bet on anything they predict. These experts are why no one trusts the experts

Morality is a luxury we can no longer afford.

[@Aanthanur]

wtf?

[@rickmcentee9204]

Let's not go there with the Nazi talk, Paul. It undermines your credibility.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Noam Chomsky said Drumpf is worse that Szhitler but now it's too late. People didn't take Chomsky seriously. Who cares about credibility when Epstein's main collaborator does his mass-mind control routine via corporate-state corruption.

[@Aanthanur]

no it doesnt, Trump run oin the dems are communists when in reality Harris ran a center right campaign and Trump lost no credibility. so one can call them Nazis without loss of any credibility. its post fact times

[@Aanthanur]

@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 noam is an idiot. hitlre had millions of people killed intentionally, no such thing is to be expected by Trump.

[@yamishogun6501]

What credibility?...

[@Murt1007]

Complete TDS

[@winstonjen5360]

Only those who support Trump have TDS.

Nuclear Power is very important for powering Ballistic Submarines. So simple.

If we could "terraform" Mars, it would fill up in a few generations.

We have Paul Ehrlich, and yet, people voted for Trump.

[@Aanthanur]

now as a climate activist in europe let me tell you something, most trump voters deny AGW, and they love the list of allegedly failed predictions. and who is always number one on that list? Paul with his failed predictions of doom, and all i can say is, dude, thats not a climate prediction, Paul has nothing to do with climate science or the IPCC. paul caused so much damage with his overly alarmist warnings and communist ideas. he caused more harm than good.