Paul's rants - motorcycle engine anti wet sumping taps!

I would never entertain such a device on any of my machines, but other opinions are, of course, available!

[@raythirkettle4155]

Us old farts routinely check the oil is returning to the tank before we shoot off! Even so, never needed a shut off tap yet in all these years.

[@Volcanicbrown1878]

"The tap of death".... Never had one, never will!

[@hunterjamison4808]

The b33s have one bolt to remove to drain the sump that works fine, not sure why they didn’t put them on the a10s too.

[@williamharris4426]

On my a10 I took the steel plate off the bottom and drilled and welded a 6mm nut on the inside, then used a short bolt as a drain plug, works perfect.

[@56Model30]

No arguing with you on this one Paul. Wet sumping can be an irritation, but not a major issue in my experience. Forgetting to turn the tap on and running the bike is a different matter altogether!

[@practicalplinking6133]

If it sat long enough to "sump up", more than draining the case needs doing !!

[@bulletboy4288]

My bullet 500 ( year 2000)wet sumps if left for awhile, I even put it tdc as I've heard it can find it's way through the big end but I'm not convinced, perhaps through the crank seal, dunno. I wouldn't start ot low on oil and let it just return while running as it could starve the big end, better just to either drain the crank case and top up the oil level or top up and then lower the level with a big syringe afterwards. I do find it's got no compression if left standing, I think the rings stick, WD40 in the spark plug hole restore that, nice smell when it starts aswell 😊.

[@jd6549]

Paul you are absolutely correct, don't ask me how I know🤣

[@downunder4087]

Yet again I'm in agreement Paul. Even where you can fit an electrical interlock to stop it starting without the oil tap on - I still wouldn't go for it. 😊

[@roythearcher]

This is where wet sump machines have the advantage!. Iv'e never had a dry sumped bike and i'm not likely to!

[@shug831]

Love the rain on the roof. 😉 Your right on the oil tap.

[@davidhill2619]

Ahhhhh Paul's rants.... alls right with the world😂 Cheers from Toulouse

[@TheNorfolkThunderbolt]

Let me suggest a compromise! Fit a tap to the crankcase plug hole, then you only have to open the tap when it wet sumps to empty into a receptacle. Replace oil in oil tank, but remember to shut the tap again! Also put a rubber cap on the tap spigot to keep muck out. Anyway, just an idea.

[@SLED649]

That’s pretty sweet!

[@practicalplinking6133]

"How to reduce the oil flow to the engine while introducing the possibility of another leak" could have been yer title to this rant !! Don't forget- oil oxidizes when sitting exposed to atmosphere !!

[@jerryhatley5004]

I told a buddy…you do what you do and I’ll do what I do….if it works for you, great…if it works for me, great…now, let’s go have a pint or three….

[@curtisarmstrong6521]

Interesting..back in the 70’s..a buddy of mine had a tap on his venom..one day he took off and forgot to open the tap..he stopped pretty quick..when the engine seized…

[@zdenekzouzazaza2100]

Hi Paul, I have a tap and I was scared to forgot to open it. So I put a magnetic contact to the tap and if it is closed and I switch ignition on I am getting really loud tone from buzzer. For to be really sure I have also small oil pressure dial on handle bar. But I agree that to have only oil tap is really dangerous from reasons you said... Zdenek

[@thra5herxb12s]

I've had plunger pumps in my Ariels for the past 35 years which dont wet sump, and before that I rode my AJS every day so never had a problem with wet sumping. My mates BSA single started wet sumping as he got older and rode it less, so he bought a new pump, which solved the problem.

[@hunterjamison4808]

Thanks for the info, my ‘59 a10 sumps more than I like. I was under the impression it was caused by a worn spring-loaded ball bearing seat. Is it nec to buy the newer expensive pumps to fix that or can the originals be repaired? I suppose it’s time for removal and inspection.

[@allenjames515]

A flexible tap cock lever can be positioned so that the Kickstarter lever opens the valve but breaks nothing . All you have to remember is not to start by rolling down hill, let alone run and jump. A spring loaded valve in the tank outlet is far worse because the hotter the day, and oil, the higher the mountain, or lower atmospheric pressure, the greater the chance of it shutting. Atmospheric pressure plus head of oil must overcome spring plus vapour pressure of oil downstream of valve. So the likeliest time for it to shut off is toward the top of a spirited ascent of a mountain on a hot day. That so called 'Reputable Dealers' sell these things is indicative of profit above anything. That Veloce changed from the spring loaded valve downstream of pump pre-war to guaranteed seizure if the supply pipe has a tiny leak tells all you need know about technical competence. So long as i was in normal health, i just started my bikes and let the return pump work; surplus in chaincase was always spewing because that is how Veloce made the colander.

[@brucegeange8991]

My T160 was wet sumping in short time and i had to remove the exhaust system to get to the sump plate( even with a single plug) hated to do it but removed the non working spring vavle and replaced it with an oil tank valve from L P Williams

[@adammedyna2365]

I'm with you on an oil tap issue, but believe with this rant about it you are limiting your business opportunities??? :)

[@gordonbriggs2345]

Great advise paul an oil tap should never be fitted we are only human just think how many time's you have left the fuel tap off.

[@andrewward2708]

Ride them regular and they don't wet sump,got a G80 Macthless and in eight years never had a problem!!

[@erik_dk842]

Maybe a laynard like the ones used for brake disc locks to remind the rider to open the oil tap?

[@simonrdew]

100% with you on this one. I hate all "improvements " belt drives, electronic ignitions, etc, although somewhat hypocritically, I will fit a solid state regulator/rectifier on an alternator bike with the early switched charging rate system as they are a total pain in the arse. I keep them 6v though.

[@norbertjohn]

100 % with you on this one Paul! It's the sort of tripe people pick up from forums written by the armchair mechanics.

[@PatrickWhitaker-ls2cs]

My harley sportster was a bugger for wet sumping but I would never have even considered fitting a tap, it's so easy to forget, just thinking about how many times I've forgotten to turn the fuel tap on especially when you have 2 or 3 bikes and one has 2 fuel taps or fuel taps with different positions for on/off/reserve etc...

[@rickconstant6106]

A friend had a Shovelhead. He learned very soon to keep a roasting tin under it in the garage, because if he left it for more than a couple of weeks, it would dump the contents of the crankcase out through the breather on start-up.

[@tonygriffiths2485]

I don't like this new format for youtube !

[@reganlittlewood]

I completely agree with you there. On my OIF A65, a previous owner has conveniently brazed in a little boss into the sump plate at an angle with a bolt in it, so the crank case can be drained. Works well

[@stefansikora5183]

Norvil supplied a set of items like big end shells, gaskets etc. with the name "This is the stuff you need after fitting an anti drain tap" ;-)

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Excellent!

[@SLED649]

Oil? Who needs oil! 🤣😱👍

[@hermangibbs8163]

Thanks Paul.

[@daveco1270]

What about that AMR mod where you send them your timing cover and they add some element to it and send it back. It's not an ON/OFF thing, so you don't have to worry about not turning it on. I've only seen it done on Norton's.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

I would rather the wet sumping over any alterations.

[@TornadoCAN99]

Fully agree that an oil tap or spring loaded check valve type AWS devices are problematic. But if fitted with an ignition disable "failsafe" switch, there is no way to start the bike without the tap in the open position. My Norton Commando 850 will fully wet sump, all oil into sump, zero left in tank, in about two weeks. Following others advice and just ignoring it and starting bike, I once had the crank seal blown out due to the high pressure created....didn't find out until having the rear wheel full coated in oil as it spewed out the primary case gearbox sprocket opening during a ride. So I decided then and there to fit an anti wet sump device. The spring loaded check valves seemed scary especially considering the Norton gear type pump does not generate much actual suction effect which is needed to open the check valve against the spring. I've since learned some bike makers actually have these as standard equipment (Velocette singles etc)...and they've worked fine for 70+ yrs. A bloke on our Norton forum made a tap that uses his bike ignition key to operate, and locked the key in the tumbler as long as the tap is closed...must be opened to remove the key and start the bike. Feked in the UK sell one with a micro switch on the tap to disable ignition for either magneto or coil type ignitions for under 50 Pounds I believe. I made my own out of a hardware store stainless ball valve and a micro switch (in series with the existing ignition kill switch circuit) for around $10.

[@thomasobrien5976]

Can't agree with you on this one I for one don't think its a great idea to keep loosening and tighting a drain plug till the thread is stripped. I cut a piece of poly pipe with "oil" witten on it and put it over the throttle when is in the shed...to a point now where i just remember to turn on and off the petrol and oil everytime i stop...its not hard to remember?

[@TornadoCAN99]

I know I would forget something like this at some point. Anything that requires the rider to remember to perform an action will eventually fail for the reasons mentioned in this video. I made a tap with a micro switch to kill ignition when tap is closed. Works a treat, no more worries.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

I don't tighten my drain screw and sump plate bolts nearly as much as some gorillas do, so I don't worry about stripping any threads.

[@grateberk6435]

Big sign on speedo. "OIL"

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Hmm ...

[@highdownmartin]

Blokes don’t read signs.

[@highdownmartin]

I don’t like the idea of an oil tap or an after market wet dumping valve, no matter how weak the spring. The pumps that leak by are gear pumps and they’re not strong in the suction stakes so anything interrupting that gravity feed is a bad idea. I’ve seen extra long tap handles that foul the kickstart. And I know there’s a mag kill switch out there that’ll earth the mag so it won’t start , both better than relying on a sign or cloth on the tank or whatever

[@stuartburton1167]

My dad had a Velocette built just after the war (early 50s probably) that magically never leaked engine oil. Now I find out that it had an anti wet sump valve built in . 40+ years of struggling with externally lubricated bikes and the problem had already been solved.

[@markpoling7917]

Agree with you Paul 100%. It just takes that one time and now a big project in front of you. I have a 71 Norton that wet-sumps and for me I have a dedicated low profile oil catch pan that I can easily drain the oil into. And I can simply drain the good oil back into the oil tank. Works well and with the Norton I can be riding in 30 minutes or less with cleaning things up as well. If I know I am not going to be reusing the oil I then use a different oil pan. No taps or anti-drain back valves here.......

[@rodneygunn788]

Never had a problem with my2002 350 Enfield just ride it

[@paulhenshaw4514]

No separate oil tank above the engine on those ...

[@Cheburashka-c1h]

I am not in favour of those taps either.... As to draining the crankcase or oil tank on my little 350 bullet....I just drill and tap the centre of the drain plug ..and put in a little bolt... It saves unscrewing the main one which on Indian made Enfield can eventually damage the thread in the alloy crankcase....due to poor metallurgy..

[@anythingoldmechanical]

My A7 had one on, but it also had a little microswitch fitted to it, which shut off the Magneto when the oil was turned off. Therefore, you had to switch on the oil, otherwise the bike couldn't start!

[@williamnethercott4364]

Whatever can happen will happen, so I completely agree with you. I've never used an oil tap and I won't. My old Triumph only ever wet sumped on one occasion when I got some grot in the ball-valve on the oil pump. My AJS will do it a bit, if I leave it for a month or more but, as you stated, running the engine at a fast idle deals with it in no time. I did see an oil tap that I thought was good: the lever on the tap was long and made it impossible to depress the kick start lever without the tap opening. Even then, I would never fit one.

[@Kevin-cy9cv]

I agree taps aren't worth the risk

[@norsehall309]

G'day Paul, this is a true story a member of our club had an oil tap fitted to his bike and when he attended a motorcycle show when it was left attended by the owner someone turned the tap off, and when on the trip home it grabbed the piston and damaged the bore, this could have just simply been a small child as there were people everywhere on the day, l don't have a tap on any of my bikes and on my Royal Enfield it wet sumps if left, so l simply drain before l ride as theirs no oil tank, cheers mate, Neil 🤠.

[@mickgerard6696]

Spot on Paul!!!!

[@ginner43]

Ride your bike often enough and the oil doesn't get chance to drain to the sump.😁

[@maskedavenger2578]

Never had a four stroke with a separate oil tank , always had wet sump unit construction 4 strokes . Only ever had auto lube 2 strokes with separate oil tanks. I agree I reckon it’s best not to fit an oil cut off tap on a tank fed system ,in case it’s left shut & starves the engine of oil . 👍

[@alancousins846]

I bought a commando that was fitted with a tap in the oil line. I hang the ignition key on it and when I want to use it I have to take the key off so turn it on then.

[@carolynmarshall3598]

I remembered to turn mine on 5 seconds after starting & pulling away. Still not learned the hard way yet. Bloody Norton twins. My 68 Inter never wet sumps.

[@johnutting9615]

1968 Inter ?

[@carolynmarshall3598]

Interceptor, yes.@@johnutting9615

[@kevinphipps3644]

Best cure for wet sumping is ride regular good for the soul as well

[@devimead750]

Totally agree with you Paul, these devices are the most stupid idea ever. I'm on a number of BSA Facebook pages and it is constantly brought up about wet sumping, my reply is to fix the flipping problem, its not that difficult.

[@henryhyam5148]

I've owned plenty of sump wetters over the years (all BSA) and never had sufficient faith in myself to fit a tap (or worse, a one-way valve). I either start it gently or drain it. Lately I've found the BSA sump plates with a built-in drain plug are very handy - 5 minute job to drain into a jug and pour back into the tank. Or just start the bike regularly...

[@johnAdamson-uk1dd]

I am in the third camp I have fitted one way/ anti drain valves to prevent/reduce wet sumping they work fine for riding season but I still have to drain the crankcase after winter storage (I have blown out a crankshaft oil seal when I failed to do this), these are also controversial in some quarters, for fear of the oil pump not having enough suction to open the valve. I have fitted oil pressure lights to both my Norton Commando's to solve this potential issue, they have the advantage of showing oil pressure while you are waiting for the oil filter to fill up. I have thought about a tap, but for the concerns that I would at some stage forget to switch it on have not fitted one and will stick with anti drain valve. Each to there own solution I say.

[@ianyonok]

Brightspark make a oil tap that is an electrical switch too. Combine this with an extra brush on their replacement magneto cap. If you don't turn the oil tap on, you don't get a spark.

[@denerumsby6789]

Totally agree Paul it's just not worth the risk My own solution to my BSA's tendency to do this was to fit a sump plate with a drain bolt in the middle of it. Takes no time to remove drain and replace after sitting for the winter I have no idea why the factory never fitted one as standard originally

[@glenbreaks5448]

I always wipe down the underside of the engine before draining the sump. Nonetheless a small piece of grit fell into the oil tray on draining the sump. It worked its way into the oil line to the rocker feed and partially blocked the banjo fitting on the 650ss, which has a fairly small orifice there. After finding that I realized that lots of grit is getting introduced into the engine by draining the sump and dumping the oil back in. I'm using a cheesecloth strainer now. What a pain though! One of my bikes has a tap fitted. This has an interlock so that the engine cannot be started without the oil on. What a treat not to have to worry about wet sumping on that one. Ten years now with that setup.

[@motown1703]

My commando wet sumps regularly. Draining and refilling the oil tank is part of my starting ritual now…five minute job and down the road I go.

[@neilmcintosh1200]

Fix the fault, not the symptom. Rebuild or change the pump. Run the bike more frequently if the time it takes to wet-sump is not too short.

[@gordonsuddery4635]

It's so easy to drain it and if it's still good reuses it,or you can simply take out the plugs and turn over the engine until the oil is cerconlating as i do 👍😁😀🏁🏍️🛺🐏🇵🇭🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@neilgill2269]

Maybe those just stop oil bods have a point?

[@limyrob1383]

Best cure wet sumping is to ride the bike. Do that regularly and you'll never have a problem.

[@rickconstant6106]

Wet sumping has never been an issue with my T140. I started and rode mine this morning for the first time in 4 months, without any problems. All I did before I started it was kick it over a few times with the plugs out to check the oil return, then it was a normal cold start, no smoke, no sticky clutch (that was a bit of a surprise). All I did with the fuel system before winter was fill the tank to the brim with E5. It ran beautifully today.

[@martinowl]

Love your rants. Keep it up when you need to get something off your chest.

[@nickmarshall9192]

Years ago I had an 850 commando mk2a It liked to wet sump very quickly So I fitted an oil tap One morning I forgot to turn the tap on I got 7 miles before it started to rattle I quickly remembered the tap and turned the oil tap on It quitened down and all was fine I must have been really close to damaging that engine

[@satanssurfer5965]

Oil tap ?? Whats next ashtrays ?

[@roymichaeldeanable]

Made me laugh...

[@lesjones7617]

Yupp with you on that one, know i wood forget the Oil tap for shore!

[@keithwilson1408]

Maybe the oil tap folks should ride two strokes!

[@davidbodycomb666]

"Ride more often" was the best advice I got after panicking at all the smoke and before learning that wet sumping 'was a thing'. Agree totally with you Paul. And thanks for the advice to let it idle a while so the scavenge pump can do its job. I put up with wet sumping on my Bullet 500 (lots) and Matchless G80 (a little) and despite all my searching and having a natural penchant for electrical gizmos, I couldn't find anything available that would be 100% idiot-proof and reliable. The suggestion of a small drain cock for the sump is appealing, but then that might get left open or knocked open...so we'd be back to square one.

[@glenbreaks5448]

The only thing is who wants to go for a ride in cold rain or snow November thru March in most of the Northern Hemishpere? I'm in Vancouver which gets a mild winter. Nonetheless it is mostly crap riding weather thru that period. There is also road salt down at times and it destroys finishes. Then if you have 6 or 7 old Brit bikes sitting with filling sumps, the " Ride more often" idea doesn't work so well in practice. Not for me at least, and I'm retired. I don't enjoy riding in that weather nor do I care for the damage done to the bikes. Nowadays I just drain the oil out of the wet sumpers after the last fall ride, pull the plug wires, stick a reminder note on the speedo then refill with fresh oil in Spring. Glen

[@amelierenoncule]

AND what's more, ever additional "Tap", etc., multiplies the chance of a leak. [They tell me that almost as bad as Blood in yer boot, is Oil.] But, overall, wouldn't a analog Oil Pressure Guage, pretty much solve the problemme of forgetting to open said tap...if one isn't Blind Drunk ?

[@ernestwilliams3112]

I like the drain tap idea better

[@TheYorkie1954]

with you on that one Paul

[@nickbarber2080]

Never trusted them...never had one...

[@fredbailey2076]

Enters just stop oil gag

[@callmeanythingbutlatefordinner]

There's a reason why manufacturers, of older bikes, include a "storage" and "pre-start" checklist in the owner's manual!! Of course now they warn you not to drink the battery fluid. The dumbing down of the next generation of dough-heads continues... 🤣🤣🤣🤣