Too Good to be False? (Tom Gilson response)

[@TomGilson]

Wow. What a train wreck. You should read the book next time. The points you rebutted had some superficial resemblance to my arguments, but only superficial. I think if you'd listened to my interviews more carefully you could have done a better job of understanding what I was saying. The fact is, though, you spent the whole video rebutting arguments I don't make. In one case you strongly supported a key premise of one of my arguments, even as you thought you were delivering a knock-out blow against it. I'll prepare a real response for you elsewhere. I do not intend to follow comments here, since I know from experience how quickly they pile up after I make a comment like this on an atheist page, and I have other work to do. For now, just know that you really should have read the book so you would have at least had some clue what you were talking about. I mean, I don't care if you buy the book. I'm just thinking that for your sake, if you'd wanted to do a video rebutting me, you might have found it at least somewhat in your own self-interest to know what you were talking about.

[@TomGilson]

I should add this as well, to help explain why I don't plan to get involved in comments here. Your video is full of rebuttals of things I don't argue, as I've already said. For me to engage in meaningful conversation on it would require me explaining, one point after another, "What I really said was ... " But I've already said what I really said. I wrote it in the book and I've summarized it in several interviews. This is not the place where I want to re-write the whole thing all over again. Those who want to know what I really said should be able to figure out where to find it. Those who don't want to know don't need me explaining it for them here or anywhere else.

[@n1ghtmar3mach1n3]

😆

[@theralhaljordan7337]

could you give an example? I thought it was risky for Paul to attack only a snapshot of an entire book, but I honestly can't see how he strawmanned you

[@TomGilson]

@@theralhaljordan7337 I think I've made my plans clear.

[@edgarmatzinger9742]

_" I do not intend to follow comments here, since I know from experience how quickly they pile up after I make a comment like this on an atheist page, and I have other work to do."_ Of course not. Just like all the other creationists. And why should Paul write your book when he's only criticising the interview you had? As another commenter said, you have nothing.

[@te-ter]

"Jesus never used his power for himself, only for the good of others" yeah, a certain fig tree begs to wither.

[@utubepunk]

Also, water to wine anyone?

[@whiterabbit75]

But don't you see? That just _proves_ his flawlessness! Only a flawless person would curse a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season!

[@LisaForTruth]

Not to mention, figs were out-of-season; how could the perfect son of god not know that?🤔🤔

[@allan4210]

Clearly, the fig tree knew Jesus was the son of god and willfully chose to deny him so it got what it clearly deserved. Plus it was probably related to the tree of knowledge and therefore knew what it was doing. The presuppositions prove themselves!

[@LisaForTruth]

@@allan4210 ROFLMAO!!! Good one!

[@kevincrady2831]

[Sings]: "Noooo oooone's slick as Gaston No one's quick as Gaston No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston's For there's no man in town half as manly Perfect, a pure paragon!..." Therefore, Gaston is the Son of God! It's all true!

[@GlorifiedTruth]

Yes, but Jesus was also especially good at expectorating.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

When I started singing your comment to my partner, I didn't think I could actually get through the entire thing without messing up the song. I was surprised that I actually got through it and was actually singing in tune! I didn't know that I knew that tune as well as I apparently did. So thank you!

[@oscargordon]

@@GlorifiedTruth He also used antlers in all of his decorating.

[@lnsflare1]

@@SadisticSenpai61 You didn't remember the lyrics, you were just a vessel for the divine message of Gaston.

[@whippet71]

The Apostle Paul was more influential on Christianity than Jesus.

[@neill392]

AS he probably invented it and 7 of the 13 books in his name were probably written by the same person, there's reasonable evidence that he existed.

[@jcgadfly6200]

To the point that many "Christians" actually ignore the words of Christ in favor of the words of Paul. Maybe we should start calling them Paulists (sorry Paulogia).

[@ThomasSellers]

If anything, the SAD IRONY of Paul the apostle was that he WAS NEVER ashamed of the Gospel. Think on this.

[@dobrien51]

What does that mean? The gospels were written after he so-called epistles.

[@neill392]

@@ThomasSellers They were written after his death!!!!

[@JosephKeenanisme]

"But Jesus had to be real if they wrote stories about him." By that same logic Hercules is real.

[@iancastor69]

And Sherlock Holmes, Harry Potter, Darth Vader...

[@MartTLS]

And Spider-Man lived in New York .

[@tomsenior7405]

To the Romans, Hercules was indeed real! To the Greeks Heracles was very much real. Hopefully, one day we will all see the folly of Faith.

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

Heracles... Not Hercules 😉

[@emmanuelpiscicelli6232]

,and A.X.L. Pendergast obviously god, in a black suit.

[@mathiasrryba]

"No one could create a figure like Jesus." I guess they didn't watch Shrek.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

or Life of Brian

[@whiterabbit75]

They've never read fanfiction.

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

I guess they didn't study the other religions. Jesus-like characters exist in most of the major religions.

[@Johnson-br2lw]

@Rusty Kinks or reddit on the witcher 3

[@DeludedOne]

Or Robocop.

[@Cellidor]

Whenever I hear 'No one has ever written a character as good as Jesus', knowing what I know about the bible, what I hear is 'I haven't read many other books than the bible'.

[@davidgriffin9247]

Clifford the big red dog is a better written character

[@tach5884]

Most characters as "good" as jesus tend to be super villains.

[@Cellidor]

@@tach5884 'I will cleanse this world of all that I despise'. -Most supervillains.

[@tach5884]

@@Cellidor "It's nice to meet y..." "This world is imperfect."

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Remove the miracles and you have the story of a single wandering apocalyptic preacher among many. You can create anything you want just by writing it down and telling readers it's true.

[@Amateur0Visionary]

These "arguments" are just awful. This book is just more proof that 99%+ of Christian apologetics exist only to siphon money away from those that already believe and just want a confidence boost.

[@shriggs55]

Yeah,money.Sincere or not there's always...money.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The biggest mistake Christians make is to exaggerate, then humiliate their imaginary god.

[@shriggs55]

@@JamesRichardWiley Yep! Well said.

[@elmersbalm5219]

at 2:11 he is almost saying 'cretin' before catching himself. they make money from book sales and, way more, from the lecture circuit. This is a very lucrative business. Simony is a well defined sin in the catholic church. Dante reserved the third level of hell for these. I'm happy to catch the spin and snake-oil.

[@kevincrady2831]

Apologist [pointing to passages he likes]: "See? Jesus is so awesome, he has to have created the Universe!" Skeptic: [points to passages where Jesus says or does crazy shit like cursing olive trees, telling people to hate their families, etc., etc.] Apologist: "Who are you, oh [hu]man, to answer back to God? He's infinite, we're finite, so we can't judge him!" You can't have it both ways.

[@Amateur0Visionary]

Sure you can! Don't you understand how apologetics works? ;)

[@utubepunk]

Right! Who are YOU as an insect with a corrupt human brain to comprehend god? Then immediately tells what what god thinks & desires. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@dennisbast743]

Sure, they can, Mr. Crady. They can have it as many ways as they want. Preach to the faithful, toss in a couple Bible "references", and VOILA, you can say anything you want and the flock will just sit there and nod their unquestioning heads. Been there, wife and I, looking around the room., astounded at the nodding sheep. In politics and religion NOTHING shakes the faith of the TRUE believer. Ref: KZbin "2+2=5", richgitsch. Once you understand his statement; understand he is NOT trolling, understand he applies that same thinking to the political part of his life, then you will understand what you are up against. You think your logic will counter illogic-IT WON'T! You think demonstrations of reality, evidence, iron-clad proof, even their own statements to the contrary will shake their magical/wishful thinking-IT WON'T! Every thing they see, hear, and know is seen through the distorting lens of faith. You put yourself at a disadvantage when you make the assumption that they live in the same world as yourself-THEY DON'T! They know TRUTH; you only possess facts and logic. YOU LOSE! Stay safe Be well

[@utubepunk]

@thewanderandhiscomp You uh, feeling okay? Sounds like you missed my point at the end there.

[@utubepunk]

@thewanderandhiscomp I was reinforcing the point made. How theists go from we mere humans can't grasp god & his infinite wisdom to telling us exactly what god thinks & wants. Maybe my sarcasm was too subtle.

[@TheKyrix82]

They keep talking about Jesus' perfection. If I had to choose a Lord and Savior...it's Optimus Prime. He would never ask me to do anything he wasn't willing to do himself, he's practically the embodiment of justice and mercy while still being a warrior who will do what needs to be done to protect others, and he's proven time and time again that he's willing to die to protect others. And that protection actually IS a free gift. Whether you know about him or not, whether you accept him or not, he still fights the Decepticons.

[@maxuno8524]

Amen

[@ChaseBlackmoon]

Yes! True believers of the one true religion! Amen and praise Primus, the creator of Cybertron and the Autobots!

[@c.guydubois8270]

Ramen....

[@robertdullnig3625]

Jesus: Blessed are the peacemakers Also Jesus: I come not to bring peace but a sword. What a consistent character!

[@maxpayne930]

And this is why Berserk is better fiction then Bible case closed : )

[@chriswest6652]

dont forget him using his victims as a foot stools!

[@elpretender1357]

NOOO! if I utterly twist the second quote, re-invent the context and do mental gymnastics it will stop being contradictory!

[@Johnson-br2lw]

Can't believe jesus ripped off red dead 2

[@TheJoker-wr1cp]

Blind ideas without context.

[@dawnmcauley6411]

"You can't write a Character like Jesus!" Messianic Archetype. A literary trope that dates back to (and is named by) the Torah!

[@KLanio-lr8yv]

Mitras pouts!

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Even the bible has got a SECOND Jesus figure in the SAME gospels (John the Baptist) ... who's "supernatural perfectness" is pointed out to make him the MC in Jesus revealing party "I know I know, i really AM so great, thank you, but just so you know: the one who comes after me is the real deal" ;-)

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Nonoctoro That's debated among scholars. It's not settled whether Judaism or Zoroastrianism came first.

[@autobotstarscream765]

And then there's the Ramayana...

[@brianwilson14]

@@angelmendez-rivera351 I heard that they developed separately but met up in Babylon where the Hebrews took the concept of Good/Evil duality from Zoroastrianism and made God more good and paving the way for the apocalyptic visions of Daniel which were reinterpreted into the book of Revelations.

[@Talenel]

Of course Tolkien never met a hobbit or a wizard. He just found and translated the Red Book of Westmarch, which contained Bilbo and Frodo's writings about their time with the One Ring, along with some other texts.

[@emilyann5963]

Funnily enough Dostoevsky literally did write a Jesus character in his novel "The Idiot" and that character actually had character development

[@Slum0vsky]

So did Bulgakov in Master and Margerita.

[@lancetschirhart7676]

Cool factoid. When they said that part about the Russian Greats being totally unable to write a character like Jesus, I thought "Here's someone who hasn't read The Brothers Karamazov or Anna Karenina. For Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, writing a character more dynamic, complex, and _believable_ than Jesus is cake.

[@Myshcan]

That sounds familiar.

[@lancetschirhart7676]

That was really hard to find. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a56vgIiNoZJ_Y9U

[@johnunderwood-hp8rj]

@@lancetschirhart7676 That was a good video. I had a good laugh.

[@kurtdvet]

The book title should actually be “I Really, Really Want It To Be So It Must Be True”.

[@furious32ninja]

Kurt D, I would have titled it "I'm really, really praying for this to be true", "because I need the cash!"

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

"I'm afraid I'll lose my soul if I don't believe this"

[@Griexxt]

Frankly, "Life of Brian" is a better story than the gospels.

[@derreckwalls7508]

Much better! It spoofs so many theistic points. It's a religious philosophical work comparable to those of the Venerable Bede. Well... maybe I exagerate. Bede was not all that Venerable.

[@bdf2718]

And probably a *lot* closer to the truth. That Jesus was a would-be messiah who wanted to kick out the Romans.

[@whiterabbit75]

@@bdf2718 Jesus: It's true! I hate the Romans as much as anybody! Reg: Oh yeah? How much? Jesus: A lot! Reg: Right, you're in.

[@bdf2718]

@@whiterabbit75 msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/gned/maccoby.pdf

[@vernonchitlen8958]

Atheist: A natural origin of life is a fact. Layperson: really? Show me how it happened! Atheist: Ummhh, well uh I can't, not just yet, but we will, someday.... But we know God doesn't exist!

[@ruthbaker5281]

Sermon on the Mount. This is literately the first time I’ve ever heard anyone suggest that this was Jesus’ actual FIRST sermon. Why would there be like 5000 people there to hear him speak if they hadn’t already heard of him and had a reason to think he would say something inspiring?

[@DerrickMims]

That’s a fantastic point! And furthermore, we already have a sermon in the gospels that looks, and feels much more like a first sermon: the little speech Jesus makes after reading from the book of Isaiah in the synagogue. Now that feels like a first sermon. So they’re not even paying attention to their own “sources“.

[@dustun9558]

I appreciate the calm manner in which you go through these videos. Many people get heated which can color the video. Keep up the good work.

[@pierreblignaut5859]

Using Christian Apologists to disprove Christian Apologists. Love it!

[@jamesmasse5794]

So Jesus is too perfect and the reasonable conclusion from this to these people is not that the story is embellished but that Jesus is real?

[@TheDevian]

Reminds me of Cartman playing a "ninja" and continuously adding to his list of powers any time the situation needed something new.

[@WynnterGreen]

Ipso facto, Cartman couldn't have been made up. TRUTH

[@henriquesousa4994]

Gospels? More like "The Four *Gossips*". And that is the genre they are written as: gossip.

[@RickReasonnz]

Ooh, I like that, stealing

[@Dtag1971]

Hahaha.... That's epic man. Feel the burn! Just freaking great!

[@DoctorZisIN]

Exactly. It does NOT read like reporting. Who was there to hear the conversation between Jesus and Pontious Pilate? Who was awake to hear Jesus' prayer in the mount of olives? Who was in the desert 40 days to report Satan's temptation of Jesus? No, it's obviously a made-up story.

[@Dtag1971]

@@DoctorZisIN What amazes me is ppl are still debating this topic.

[@adamthethird4753]

It's amazing to me that as the time goes on, they speak louder and faster. It's almost as if they are running from something, like their internal realizations that they are full of bologna.

[@JayMaverick]

Oh that group of backers and the credibility of Frank Turek, the most honestest apologist, to boot? I'm definitely convinced. *chuckle*

[@grahvis]

That just made me laugh, that lot would hardly be likely to criticise.

[@JayMaverick]

Because it's a Mary Sue, it can't be made up? Wow they're really grasping at straws aren't they. =D This is so sad it's hilarious.

[@didack1419]

The funny thing is that even at trying to be a Mary Sue Jesus fails miserably

[@pauligrossinoz]

Ask any book publisher or literary agent. They see far too many Jesus-like characters, or Mary-Sues. And that's a sign of _bad_ writing, not a sign of divine influence! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@frankwhelan1715]

@@pauligrossinoz Anyway ,don't think a god would rely on what people wrote in a book to show evidence of his existance, people can write anything, and a (real) god would know that.

[@pauligrossinoz]

@@frankwhelan1715 - but apparently Frank Turek doesn't believe that! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Bloody hell Frank Turek is so _stupid!_

[@flyerfan8]

Paul: a Mary Sue is a derogatory term to describe characters created by fan fiction writer Apologist: there is no way Jesus could be created by fan fiction writers Me: blinky eyes

[@Vadjong]

The Dune saga addresses precisely all these points.

[@whiterabbit75]

And had better character growth.

[@whiterabbit75]

@Rusty Kinks Don't forget the related saying, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

[@its1110]

Hmm... I'll have to give Dune another shot. I didn't much like Herbert's writing style.

[@maxpayne930]

Dam i love that bock : )

[@JayMaverick]

That psychopath dude using the same arguments to disprove the Quran I'm dying. =D Brilliant video, Paul.

[@bazstrutt8247]

Yeah... David “every other religion is obviously made up nonsense “ Wood

[@MegaVirus700]

@@bazstrutt8247 the level of cognitive dissonance is almost impressive. But David is one person that i wouldn't even try to deconvert, he's literally that person who isn't going around murdering for fun because he's convinced the sky wizard told us not to

[@utubepunk]

@@MegaVirus700 Exactly. Dude gives me the creeps on a visceral level. He would totally kill me if he thought his god told him to.

[@MegaVirus700]

@@utubepunk Have you ever heard his conversion story? I think Viced Rhino did a video on it. I don't think he's 100% honest. Id wager he realized that no one would hire him with his prison/ mental health record after he was released so he went into apologetics. That and it went perfectly with his illusions of grandeur and need to manipulate

[@utubepunk]

@@MegaVirus700 I think I've seen it, but it's been a while. You're right about how hard it is for ex-cons to be hired & be successful. Using Christianity in this way is a good grift. If a famous atheist became a Christian or ex-con changed his life with Jesus, there's money to be had.

[@Grabovsky85]

I dont see any vampires around, clearly Lincoln killed them all.

[@riomatrix6156]

..and don't forget to worship and praise almighty Odin for destroying all the frost giants. Definitely haven't seen any of those guys around either.😂

[@Ponera-Sama]

Lincoln didn't kill any vampires, they were killed by the Hamon monks and the great Joestar family

[@GalapagosPete]

The sermon on the mount was brilliant! Otherwise, how would we know that “cheese makers” is not meant to be taken literally but refers to any manufacturers of dairy products?

[@henghistbluetooth7882]

GalapagosPete Heretic! Follow the gourd!

[@billfranklin9443]

Time for a reality check. Need to watch Life of Brian again for a little sanity.

[@VaughanMcCue]

In Tom Gilson's book, I read about the sermon, while mounted, and it certainly took away a bit of the ambience as he was told it was bad timing. It was around the time Mary Mag was oiling her clients, and she starts with podophilia.

[@lewisfitzsimmons1271]

One of my biggest pet peeves in this area is people who say “would be a greater miracle” or “it takes more faith to believe x” Miracles are all equally possible or probable (impossible/improbable) >< no matter how different in scale they may seem. Once you breach into the supernatural, from our perspective everything is equally likely/difficult.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I wish Christians would give up using terms like "sheep", "shepherds", "blood sacrifice", Satan, "Lamb of god" and retribution and start talking about the sub atomic particles that form our reality.

[@sbushido5547]

This is so sad... Selling Christian literature must be easy as hell.

[@tach5884]

I have almost no musical talent but I could make a christian album that goes double myrrh.

[@flyerfan8]

Tach you and cartman

[@JamesRichardWiley]

When your readers are preprogrammed to buy.

[@TheAsaoirc]

I don't know, I imagine hitting these page counts can get difficult with nothing new to say.

[@aspektx]

@@TheAsaoirc as a fundie but a voracious reader I devoured quite a few Xtian books. And honestly most of them drove me nuts with the repetition.

[@lower_case_t]

2:11 "i want to reach the everyday crea... christian" - hilarious

[@mathiasrryba]

Freudian slips in that interview are too good to be false.

[@SanjeevSharma-vk1yo]

all those terrible consumer protection people saying "if it sounds too good to be true ....". How can Christians fight against that? same way software companies do, just proclaim "it's not a bug IT'S A FEATURE !!!!!!!"

[@kevincrady2831]

The Bible is a EULA. You don't read it, just click "Agree."

[@Marniwheeler]

@@kevincrady2831 a little bit too accurate there.

[@wmrieker]

and the lambdas shall inherit the earthas

[@KLanio-lr8yv]

So was Lincoln a vampire hunter or not,... Now I am unsecure

[@darthgorthaur258]

I know I've been waiting on an answer to this for months now....I had to come back to see if I missed something, but nope nothing yet...if I find the truth in a hidden book when I raid the library of Congress I'll make sure to let you know lol

[@KLanio-lr8yv]

@@darthgorthaur258thnks

[@badcarbon7624]

The Illiad and the Odyssey, contain some of the best and most famous characters in history along with beautiful writing and as we now know had its origins in an actual event. It's at least two thousand years or so older then the gospels and was also a source for religious thinking. All though it may have lost its status as a religious text, it's still in print and a good translation is so much more enjoyable then the gospels.

[@michaelsommers2356]

If the Trojan War actually happened, and that is far from certain, then it happened around 1200 BCE, not 3000 BCE.

[@willmind4296]

Love it the way you insert David Wood into your video here!👏🏻 A Christian stomping on the Koran (rightfully so) but showing how his words also can be used on the Bible in the same way. 👍🏻

[@JohnnieHougaardNielsen]

The gospels fit nicely in the category: Fan fiction

[@GlorifiedTruth]

Paul, I read a book a long time ago that I think you'd enjoy. It's called "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity" by Hyam Maccoby. It deals with the evolution of the Jesus character as Paul gained influence over Christian thought.

[@its1110]

Should be called Paulanism.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

@@its1110 I was going for Paulianity.

[@its1110]

@@sigmaoctantis1892 I was inluenced by Paulaner... they make good beer.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

@@its1110 Do they turn water into beer?

[@its1110]

@@sigmaoctantis1892 Umm... well... ya gotta stir in some other stuff. :)

[@i6s1]

The sermon on the mount has some pretty bad advice. Christians don't really bother to consider a lot of its implications.

[@belgarath6388]

Is that the whole seperating the seeds from the chaff thing and the sheephearder going after the lost sheep? Yeah the implications are pretty glaring if you have a functioning brain especially when one consider gods "character". Are we sure his name isn't really Chtulu? Would make more sense really.

[@MrDanAng1]

Deepak Chopra has way more compelling deepeties than Jesus have in the cermon on the mountain. And I still think Deepak Chopra is laughable!

[@kevincrady2831]

@@belgarath6388 Well, he does constantly refer to his followers using food metaphors (the sheep of his fold, the crops of his field, the fruit of his vine, etc.), and shepherds don't keep sheep because they adore them as pets. I'm not sure if the lost sheep gets eaten first or not, but the angels (eldrich horrors all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKWxhICrd9yZsKc ) are really happy that not even one got away.

[@whiterabbit75]

The one that bothered me the most was the "Blessed are the cheesemakers" line. Are we to take this as literally only cheesemakers, or does anyone working with dairy count? And what about eggs, are they dairy by Hebrew standards?

[@lancetschirhart7676]

The wonderful Nonstampcollector has a video where someone from the present gets in a time machine and stands behind Jesus in the sermon and "translates" for Jesus in that sermon: "Nah, ignore that part. No one in the future really takes that stuff seriously. Sorry, go on, Jesus."

[@MuttFitness]

Jesus isn't a mary sue. He's a gary stu.

[@VanguVegro]

Mary 'Sus.

[@gp6763]

@@VanguVegro Is this an among us reference ?

[@VanguVegro]

@@gp6763 Nah, just a play of words on (Mary) Sue and (Je) Sus.

[@Johnson-br2lw]

@@VanguVegro when je is sus

[@henriquepacheco7473]

@@Johnson-br2lw 'je' means 'I' in French. Are you an impostor?

[@DoctorZisIN]

Instead of addressing Paul's arguments, Tom uses the only ace up his sleeve: Paul didn't read the book. Well, sorry Tom but we don't need to read the book when you make your closing statement: "When I have a problem with what the bible says, the problem isn't with the bible, the problem is with me". This contains all the information any skeptic worth his salt needs. Your allegiance to a book of legends and myths, copied and retold, full of contradictions and problems is a lie, intentional or not, because if you have a problem, you simply change your interpretation.

[@SciPunk215]

I've heard a lot of ludicrous arguments, but this one is pretty high on the list. I guess the Christian publishers have a pretty low bar these days.

[@furious32ninja]

SciPunk215 you would have thought that god would have stepped in by now! I can't believe that he is standing by idly watching his religion go down the pan!

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@daniel letterman don't think so (and there still are a ton of smokers around even in 2020. Maybe not where you live, but i work in a small company in Germany and amongst 50 office staff there are at least 5 or 6 smokers, so ... not gone quite yet... and that is in Europe... some corners of Asia or Africa do not give a goshdarn about the dangers of smoking...), it would at least take all of THIS heavily indoctrinated generation (and the one that directly learned from it) to be dead and gone to allow society to become virtually clean of "faith"... 2100 is a more likely timeline, probably even 50 or 80 years later, as strong as religion still is... again not just in the west, but also the corners still using the "your life sucks, believe this and your NEXT life will make it worth it!" bait...

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Ugly German Truths You give humanity too much credit. 2100 is too early. I would wait some 500 years before religion is mostly gone or radically changed.

[@oldmansolo572]

I'm 63 and have always been an atheist but always wondered why "religious" people believed in the Bat-Shittery that they read and had preached at them. I watched "Transformations of Myths through Time" then later "The Powers of Myth" by Joseph Campbell and had my "ahah" moment while watching it!!!!

[@martifingers]

Hi Gregory - are you familiar with terror management theory? I reference it above but I had a similar "ahah" moment when I first encountered it. I would be interested in what your reaction is :kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYSTnqqabsiFaJY

[@jailhousephilosopher3309]

Isn't it amazing that Pontius Pilate was the only person who could have been written into history as converting to Christianity. He was not converted because the Bible writers new that they would have been recorded as liars. Also any insignificant person became a convert.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

What exactly is a conversion to Christianity? A belief that a first century Jew named Yeshua came alive after three days of being dead and floated up into the sky a month later to meld with himself in his magic kingdom in a different reality. Translation: Disconnect from reality and construct an alternative reality of magic and miracles.

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

Paulogia...One of my favorite 'Major Skeptics'. Great work! Thanks again.

[@derreckwalls7508]

What do you mean nobody could create a character like Jesus? We created the character of God, didn't we?

[@henghistbluetooth7882]

Derreck Walls Touché :)

[@davidhoffman6980]

@9:34 "[Jesus] never gets the least bit flustered" Uh...except at fig trees.

[@johngleeman8347]

Why don't more apologists use the "Jesus was the best at hugging lambs" argument? A rgumentum ab leporem would be a lot more effective at converting me than saying that Jesus is a perfectly, nay, supernaturally well-written character! XD

[@genxmonk70]

Did you mean 'argumentum ad populum'?

[@johngleeman8347]

@@genxmonk70 "Argument from charm."

[@genxmonk70]

@@johngleeman8347 ty, I'd never heard that

[@johngleeman8347]

@@genxmonk70 I translated "charm" into Latin using Google. XD

[@frmrchristian303]

Great video, Paul! You do more research for your videos than most on KZbin. You're quickly becoming one of my favorites of all atheist video artists (and I do think this is an art)

[@Paulogia]

That's very kind. Thank you.

[@Skeptical_Numbat]

Incidentally, the *Star Trek* fan-fic with the actual *Mary-Sue* _(from which the term, if not the concept originates)_ can be read here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Some more examples: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

[@kevincrady2831]

@28:20 - "When I have a problem with what the Bible says..." Wait, I thought you were just making the argument that Jesus has to be real and divine because there *aren't* any problems with his story!

[@utubepunk]

NICE. Good catch.

[@frankwhelan1715]

The pastor at the end summed it up.

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

Literally the definition of confirmation bias. If something conflicts my belief, that something is wrong because my belief is correct.

[@tompaine4044]

Paulogia videos: Seldom expected, always appreciated.

[@ianmcmullen1979]

Your content is very high quality and Im surprised you havent gained more subs over the past few months, keep up the great work!

[@Paulogia]

Appreciate the kind sentiments. Spread the word!

[@VisiblyPinkUnicorn]

"Who are you?" "Jesus" "Jesus who?" "Jesus Skywalker"

[@Paulogia]

ugh. heavy heart.

[@maxpayne930]

And he made 2 errors he lost his light saber and he didn,t saved him self some Jedi he is still better story then NEW Star Wars and Twilight : )

[@darthgorthaur258]

The new "starwars" films are actually just the same as the bible storys...they have been proven to actually been mass delusion and not really exist and people are finally starting to see it with the starwars like they have for awhile with the bible....remember this brother and your get better soon.

[@Ponera-Sama]

And Yahweh spoke to Jesus saying: "If you only knew the power of the Dark Side. John didn't tell you what happened to your father." And Jesus said: "He told me enough! He told me YOU killed him!" And Yahweh said: "No. I AM your father!"

[@richunixunix3313]

I wonder if I started a “Christian Boy-Band”, I could fleece the public. These people remind me of the TV Evangelist of the 80’s.

[@VicedRhino]

16:07 - I started checking my phone to see why my Cognitive Dissonance podcast started playing.

[@cullenjohnson0]

No author could possibly have written a character as pure and good as Valentine Michael Smith.

[@VisiblyPinkUnicorn]

Christians: "No one can write a character like Jesus!" Japanese anime/manga industry: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?"

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Remove the miracles and you have the story of a single wandering apocalyptic preacher among many. You can create anything you want just by writing it down and telling readers it's true.

[@kenbee1957]

And this isn't even my final form

[@maxpayne930]

@@JamesRichardWiley Jesus/Gary Sue is Jedi who lost his light saber maybe : )

[@gp6763]

Hokuto no Ken > Jesus

[@VisiblyPinkUnicorn]

@@gp6763 "You're already baptized" "NANI?!?"

[@peejay4606]

I'm not a major skeptic. I am a lieutenant skeptic.

[@heteroclitus]

Some theists are, I suspect, private skeptics.

[@maxpayne930]

Grand admiral skeptic here : )

[@peejay4606]

@@heteroclitus at least they should be skeptical.

[@Atlas6355_]

I have read Marvel comics better written and more believable than the Bible.

[@1970Phoenix]

The bible really is a terrible piece of literature. If is profoundly boring to read. What percentage of self-professing Christians do you think have read the bible in the last 24 hours, or could name all 10 commandments, or tell you what the 6th book of the bible is etc etc etc.?

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The Bible should be classified as a collection of Hebrew literature of unknown origin.

[@autobotstarscream765]

So The Greatest Story Ever Told...isn't?

[@reformCopyright]

Theists. Always so easily impressed (when it suits them).

[@noshame2389]

"jesus is a Mary Sue" is something I always felt was true, but was never put into words quite like that and hearing it in such a raw manner makes me feel things I don't know how to put into words

[@Anglomachian]

It made me laugh so internally when they claimed that no one can make a character like Jesus. Read more-or-less any teenagers fanfics, and you’ll find characters just as flat, uninteresting, and holler than all of thou, as Jesus. Perfect characters are the easiest ones to make.

[@brianstevens3858]

How you manage to keep outdoing yourself is no less than amazing to me Paul.

[@CaseAgainstFaith1]

If you can’t do what Paulogia does, that must prove that Paulogia is actually a prophet.

[@brianstevens3858]

@@CaseAgainstFaith1 OH, I outdo myself all the time, unfortunately that is neither hard, nor is it commonly in the right direction.

[@anzakson]

Excellent, Paulogia! Your dissection of Tom, Frank and Wood's commentary are so spot on! Thoroughly enjoyed your efforts. Thank you so much for your excellent work and sharing them with us. Take care and keep well! 😊🙏

[@Paulogia]

Many thanks!

[@goldenalt3166]

Given that many literary characters are based on Christ, surely there are plenty that are similar.

[@Slum0vsky]

And there are many mythical characters of which predate Christ and whose stories he mirrors...

[@furious32ninja]

@@Slum0vsky I was just about to type the same thing! If I were to be cynical, it would seem like they took the best character traits from all the stories and rolled them all together in 'Jesus'!

[@ProphetofZod]

So people who have spent years immersed in Jesus' teachings - and viewing most moral and philosophical issues through the lens of his phrasing - think he's too amazing a character to be made up. Wow, I guess God must be real, then.

[@Paulogia]

Time for us to convert and restart our channels.

[@brunozeigerts6379]

Why isn't there a gospel according to Jesus?

[@dennisbast743]

Illiterate carpenter. Like Muhammed was an illiterate merchant. Funny coincidence, that. Makes one curious how many religions were founded by illiterate mystics. Hmmmm.

[@HoneyTone-TheSearchContinues]

daniel letterman To be fair, rock pages ARE heavy.

[@Slum0vsky]

Actually there was a gospel by Jeebus, but then the rest of the trinity sued him for royalties and it got retired.

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

But he's GOD. He could TOTALLY be literate if he wanted to! He just chooses to be illiterate to be more relatable to all the other illiterate people! In all seriousness though, Jesus supposedly was literate according to Luke, so he could have written a book. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+4%3A14-21&version=NIV Although, this is right before the people of Nazareth drive him out of his hometown. Funny how the people know Jesus better than others, because Jesus grew up in Nazareth, don't believe that he's God or a miracle worker... I wonder why the people that know his past the better than anyone else don't actually believe he's God? www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+4%3A20-30&version=NIV

[@dylanjones9061]

In some of the short stories that Doyle wrote about Sherlock Holmes, Holmes actually does get things wrong or become flustered. In these stories, Watson explicitly states that he doesn't normally write about Holmes's failures, but decides to dedicate a few pages to them. This gives the impression that there are many more that happened but that Watson simply didn't write down. All Doyle would have to have done to make Holmes more believable by this logic would be to omit those few stories from publication.

[@steveaustin4118]

If we are going by what's written makes it true, than that would make Hinduism the correct religion considering it's been around the longest and has the most religious books

[@derreckwalls7508]

Not to mention that many of the insights of Hinduism are far more profound than those of Christianity (as if Jesus ever said anything profound).

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Copies of copies from unknown writers is not a reliable foundation for truth.

[@Inanedata]

@@JamesRichardWiley I'm legitimately unsure as to what you're trying to say. I see a simple refutation of Hinduism but, and forgive me if I'm wrong, are you trying to imply anything else?

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@Inanedata Judging by his posts in the Comment section of this video, his problem is with Christianity and the Bible; to go with the above example of Hinduism, the Gospels resemble the Ramayana, and Christian teachings about the Trinity and salvation through being born again are sometimes compared to the Trimurti and reincarnation.

[@AynRKey]

People have talked about Plato's Socratic Dialogues for longer than they have been talking about Jesus' sermons.

[@georgez987]

Tolkien absolutely met a hobbit.

[@Johnson-br2lw]

I mean Hobbits are just short people with big feet so

[@facundocesa4931]

I love your videos. I'd love to have all of your arguments in a searchable format. Are your scripts published somewhere?

[@AJansenNL]

I love that you used David Wood's arguments against the literary miracle claim of the quran to point out the flaw in similar christian assertions. Although I'm an ex-muslim, I just cannot like David Wood. He's arrogant and smug when he criticises islam and uses good evidence and reasoning, yet fails to apply the same to christianity. The hypocrisy is sickening.

[@martifingers]

Yes , a good move by Paulogia.

[@Triumph_Of_Insinuation]

Thank you for your efforts and considerations in these matters. I really appreciate you Paul.

[@helenaconstantine]

The character of Socrates presented in the Apology is morally and in every other way superior to the Gospel character of Jesus.

[@derreckwalls7508]

👍 The fact that Socrates was prepared to condemn himself for the sake of truth cannot be surpassed by anyone. It is the epitome of all morality. And that was centuries before Jesus.

[@michaelsommers2356]

Superior also to the real Socrates.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@derreckwalls7508 Socrates did not die for truth. He died because of politics. He was himself anti-democracy. His student Critias led the Thirty Tyrants who took power briefly after the end of the Peloponnesian war. He was also a jerk.

[@helenaconstantine]

@@michaelsommers2356 OH? If you have some knowledge of him, I like to hear about it. You're confusing Xenophon's Socrates with the historical Socrates or something like that, I hope?

[@derreckwalls7508]

@@michaelsommers2356 I did not say Socrates died for truth. It should be evident from the context of the dialogue that I referred to the truth of personal integrity - a primary consideration of the dialog - and that for the sake of preserving the truth of personal integrity he was willing to let his own words condemn him in the eyes if those who judged him. I never claimed Socrates had any thoughts on democracy. I don't know what point that was supposed to make. A student is not compelled to adhere to the instruction of the teacher. You appear to be insinuating guilt by association - very treacherously. Jerk. Now there's a proper critical assesment. Are there any other points I didn't make that you would like to criticize? Maybe you should begin by criticizing Plato, since we are taking Plato at his word as our only characterization of Socrates. Or are we?

[@sonnyfleming904]

14:11 World famous drummer Neal Peart wrote a book about bicycling. Then he wrote another book that was about being a traveler on a motorcycle. Then he wrote another book about grief.

[@LisaForTruth]

Apologists MUST be hurting if they're putting out this kind of crap

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Apologist: A person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. If an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent male god needs defenders then by definition he is not god.

[@LisaForTruth]

@@JamesRichardWiley so true

[@blindazabat9527]

I have heard weak arguments, but this one really beats them all!

[@brunozeigerts6379]

'Blessed are the cheesemakers!'

[@chefchaudard3580]

It is not mean to be taken literally . It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.😀

[@billfranklin9443]

@@chefchaudard3580 Life of Brian, brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

[@billkeon880]

Great educational video once again. The method of stopping after each point to rebut is spot on. Otherwise if you’re allowed to string together a long string of assertions, it gives a false sense of certainty

[@utubepunk]

Apologetics remains a house of cards... this time built on pure hype.

[@pauligrossinoz]

Wow! *You're **_on fire_** with this video!* Thanks Paul.

[@Dragonmaster0118]

That "They must be a profit" argument is so freaking stupid. Everything they've said is incredibly stupid.

[@utubepunk]

Super prophetable! Barely an inconvenience. ^_^

[@VergilSDT]

Paul's typical calm and polite demeanor makes his sarcasm hit harder than most.

[@trabob4438]

He keeps quoting the story's in the gospels, Mark was written 40 years after Jesus died and whom ever wrote it was not an eye witness, these are story's that were handed down.

[@billfranklin9443]

With a little twist and a little added each time.

[@lnsflare1]

Point: Sherlock Holmes very explicitly *did not* solve every case he ever got, but that only serves to showcase your point since his author's framing device was that all the stories were actually being documented by Watson who in turn specifically stated that he didn't publish most of Holmes' failures since they wouldn't be satisfying to read from a narrative standpoint. That said, there were still things like the case involving the Engineer's thumb or the KKK which ended with Holmes' decisive failure, to say nothing of the eternally fetishised Irene Adler from A Study in Scarlet (the entire point of which was that Irene was trying to get happily married to a relatively normal guy who loved her for herself and wanted to make sure that she could do so without hassle from a condescendingly classist former lover who was foreign royalty, not that she was some sort of femme fatale who jumps from crime to crime and had some sort of will they or won't they relationship with Sherlock).

[@DarinCo001]

Oh Dear. I have to correct you Insflare1. Holmes does "solve" the Engineer's Thumb, but they arrive on scene too late to stop the culprits. Irene Adler, The Woman, appears in "A Scandal in Bohemia" and not "A Study in Scarlet." And, the KKK do manage to carry out their murder of young John Openshaw in "The Five Orange Pips," but they do not quite get away, as the ship they sailed on was later reported wrecked. Sorry to come in at this late date, but I'm an old Holmes fan and just had to correct the record.

[@lnsflare1]

@@DarinCo001 It doesn't count as "solved" if the criminal escaped, by both legal standards or Holmes' own, I would argue. He figured out the trick, but that doesn't keep them from going somewhere else and doing it again since there's not much of a chance of one of their next victims going to Holmes about it. And the fate of the Five Orange Pips assassins had nothing to do with Holmes, and wouldn't really stop the organization that they belong to from doing it again either since, IIRC, the culprits weren't stated to be particularly high up in the KKK. Good point about Scandal in Bohemia, though. That was a weird mental flub on my part.

[@walterbrooks2329]

Gilgamesh was way cooler than Jebus

[@suppotato1235]

“If the Bible said 2+2=5, I wouldn’t doubt it. I’d just try my best to make sense of it.” He does know that the 2+2=5 thing is from 1984 right?

[@BethDiane]

I've seen it suggested that Jesus was also shown as a Yom Kippur sacrificial goat.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Not to mention a Passover Lamb...

[@ed.z.]

Was human sacrifice a popular in Jewish tradition, ever? How about crucifixion?

[@BethDiane]

@@ed.z. Ask John Dominic Crossan. He discusses all that in _Who Killed Jesus? Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus_.

[@BobbyHill26]

⁠@@ed.z.when talking about this early period they usually are called Yahwists instead of Jews, but there’s a fair bit of evidence to believe that in the early days of the group, pre-800 BC or so, that they did practice child sacrifice, even having different types for different purposes. There is evidence for it within the Bible, though the authors often talk about it as a bad thing or as if they were sacrificed to other gods, though in reality they were almost certainly sacrificed to Yahweh. I don’t know about sacrifice of adult humans though, it’s not something I’m familiar with and have no clue if there’s any evidence pointing one way or another

[@ed.z.]

@@BobbyHill26 the foundation of Judaism is that there is “one” god of the universe. It was the first monotheistic religion. Later on, the Hebrew slaves of Egypt who worshiped Egyptian and pagan multiple gods by design, all died in the desert during the journey to the promised land. So the new generation did not have “other gods” to quote a phrase from the Ten Commandments.

[@mackeymintle66]

Thank you for all the work you do to show how ridiculous the apologetic communities “scholarship” is, and how oblivious they seem to how their own arguments clearly show how flawed their logic is, and how obliviously they attempt to make points that invalidate their entire belief set.

[@stevewebber707]

The claim that parts of this book are directed at skeptics, ironically looks like another unsubstantiated claim designed to reassure a Christian audience. Though I'm even less likely than Paul to read this book to confirm. But if his talking points accurately portray his own writing, i don't see the need. I'm mildly curious about the specifics of what he considers to be so unique about the character of Jesus in the bible as compared to any other similar example. But that a more academic curiosity that I can live with as left hanging.

[@michaelsommers2356]

Sherlock Holmes was defeated in the story "A Scandal in Bohemia". That woman (Irene Adler) got away with the photo that Holmes was trying to steal from her.

[@ed.z.]

But, in general Holmes was eventually a winner with a stellar track record. Although the drug problem humanized him. Violin not withstanding.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@ed.z. I believe the statement in the video that I was responding to was that Holmes always won. I just provided a counterexample. He did not always win.

[@brunozeigerts6379]

And now for the latest apologetic argument pulled from the derriere...

[@pauligrossinoz]

_argumentum ex rectum_ 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@RobertsAdra]

Great job Paul, not only did you take Tom Gilson apart but you also stuck it to David Wood. Two birds with one vid.

[@jaycie5021]

Too Good to be False? Sound like to big to fail.

[@mathiasrryba]

When I read it i thought it's Paulogia's mockery, but no. It's actually how they called the book. smh

[@drgleisner]

I love the fact that you are literally "doubting Thomas".

[@munstrumridcully]

I'm a major skeptic! And a legend in my own mind! 😉

[@noel090909]

Honestly I’d have a lot more respect for Jesus if the Bible claimed Jesus said “I’m a legend in my own mind” immediately before the Jesus wept verse. That’s a Bible I can get on board with!

[@munstrumridcully]

@@noel090909 lol, that would've been better. As an aside, the whole Jesus wept quote just made me think of the last line from the character Frank in the original Hellraiser movie, just before he was torn to small pieces by Cenobites 😃

[@noel090909]

munstrumridcully This emoji 😃 IMMEDIATELY following a sentence about people being violently killed made me laugh SO damn hard. 😂👍 Jesus wept, indeed! 😃

[@munstrumridcully]

@@noel090909 glad I could give you some levity!

[@natew.7951]

On the blog "Cross Examined" Bob Siedensticker has a 4 part article just criticizing the "why didn't Jesus abolish slavery" talking point. Tom Gilson has started to respond. I think your viewers would enjoy it Paul.

[@gornser]

They are professional apologists. Thus they can lie with a straight face with ease.