Archaeological Finds for the Old Testament (feat. Josh Bowen)

[@allrise3056]

Thanks to Christopher Hitchens I am now a former Roman Catholic priest. I enjoy your channel very much. Thank you.

[@brennojsc]

A ex-priest?? damn

[@LOwens-xf8yo]

It must have been terrifying to discover your faith was gone! De-conversion with your job & shelter literally hanging in the balance. I hope you have found find a peaceful life.

[@allrise3056]

@@LOwens-xf8yo Shawshank Redemption’s old inmate character “Brooks” and his difficulties after his turn-out hits hard.

[@Thundawich]

I like how his evidence for noah's flood is 'we found a similar story to whats in the bible' and not 'we found evidence of everyone dying in a massive flood'. If the topic was archeology confirming the bible, the latter is definitely what I would expect.

[@gowdsake7103]

In any other instance it would be plagiarism

[@kodahodges4166]

Wonder where Noah found all the trees to build that ark…. In the desert. Wonder how he got those salt water crocs and black mamba snakes from down under….like way down under to scale across over to come a board the ole boat. Wow just think of all the birds from the rain forest….

[@zemoxian]

@@gowdsake7103 I think of it more like a reboot.

[@zemoxian]

@@kodahodges4166 Have you heard of the volcano theory? I’m probably getting the details wrong but it was something like huge volcanic eruptions that blasted animals thousands of miles in sun orbital trajectories and somehow landed in the right place. Without the usual radiation, heat, cold, etc.,, damage that would normally cause. Then there’s the Pangea theory where prior to the flood the continents were in a single massive continent. So all land animals could walk all the way to Noah. Then 200 million years of plate tectonics took place in a year without liquifying or vaporizing the entire Earth’s surface as one might expect. Sometimes YEC is indistinguishable from Flat Earth in the extremely bizarre explanations they come up with.

[@Thundawich]

​@@kodahodges4166 I mean you can talk about snakes and crocs from australia and sure that is a problem, but like the boat isn't even that much larger than the biggest dinosaurs. You get in a few of the big 4 leggers and they'll just fall through the floor.

[@sbushido5547]

I'm honestly kind of surprised that he acknowledged that the field doesn't share his view. Most of the time with apologetics, they like to pretend that the experts all agree with them.

[@SilverMKI]

Unless they can feed persecuted..

[@alanw505]

"Give us long enough and we'll find the evidence to back up what we already believe...maybe".

[@grapeshot]

Yes it's quite interesting that several civilizations live right through this supposed flood and apparently forgot that they were supposed to all be dead by drowning🤷🏿‍♂️

[@NinJestre]

Almost as bad as all of us who forgot we're in hell & the rapture happened already like several times. I don't know how we forget things when we were never born but that's just life, I guess

[@douglasrasmussen480]

A recent study by Cambridge University tracked the genetics of aboriginal Australians with continuous lineage back 60000 years. The unique markers of these people would have been erased in a world wide flood and certainly would not have been passed on by Noah and his incestuous passengers.

[@benkrapf]

Yahweh put the wrong cover sheet on the TPS report.

[@schwingle17]

@@benkrapf Good one

[@ScholarsUnleashed]

Come on! You know very well that God operates in mysterious ways. 🙂

[@Venaloid]

Very glad you're addressing this video. Sean seems to be increasingly committed to his religious fundamentalism while ignoring the counter-arguments. Gotta keep his flock believing!

[@avi8r66]

Since when is a professional apologist interested in unbiased truth? Their job description is to find ways to justify the religious beliefs.

[@tfive24]

To me ,Sean seemed the most "responsible " amongst apologists.

[@avi8r66]

@@tfive24 He had that reputation for a while but he got tired of swimming upstream with his (limited) open mindedness on the collaboration calls with his peers so he fell into step with them.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

Authors sell books to patrons. An audience of Christians need Their Faith to be Right. They purchase books from authors to confirm their Christian biases. A Christian’s Faith must withstand the attacks and persecution …of fact based discoveries and reasonable arguments. Thanks to Apologetics, Christians can rest assured that the jealous, wrathful, mass murdering, sexist God that finds building towers to heaven threatening and requires BBQ lamb but never Pork…THAT GOD ….IS TRUE!!! Only Christians can explain how THAT GOD can now be called upon to bless Pepperoni Pizza Poppers on a Super Bowl Sunday.

[@ScholarsUnleashed]

I wonder if his reaching out to KZbinrs like Paulogia and Genetically Modified Skeptic is ultimately part of some plan to bring people to the Lord.

[@DeludedOne]

13:22 I'm getting flashbacks to "Luke is a reliable historian" and "undesigned coincidences" (by Erik Manning) here. 25:28 Got to love that Christian persecution complex.

[@timothynelissen948]

Classic case of fitting the evidence to the conclusions and not the other way around. Dr. Bowen is correct, and they come to the dig site with the answers firmly in place in their heads before they even break soil.

[@roblovestar9159]

I would amend your statement thus: A classic case of fitting [some of] the evidence to the conclusions [while ignoring evidence that does not support those conclusions].

[@timothynelissen948]

@@roblovestar9159 yes, well said. I wrote it in a hurry and didn't take any time to think about the vagueness of my statement. Cheers!

[@4chords184]

Dr. Joshua Bowen is top tier content. Awesome scholar. Thanks for making this awesome video Paulogia og Dr. Josh.

[@4chords184]

@LuthAMF How so?

[@4chords184]

@LuthAMF I would love to. Provide a list of Ph.D's on this subject. We gotta learn as much as we can. Have you also researched non-religious scholars who hold the same consensus as Dr. Bowen? The majority consensus.

[@4chords184]

@LuthAMF Of course there is always people who contradict the general consensus. That is the case within all fields of knowledge and research.

[@Insane_ForJesus]

New atheists don't know a damn thing about OT scholarship lmao. Hell even Muslims know more about the Bible than the average new atheist.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@LuthAMF You cite a guy who died in 1787? I take it, then, that you have nobody more recent, who may be aware of any archaeological discoveries of the past two and a half centuries.

[@DigitalHammurabi]

Thank you so much!! This was so much fun!!

[@Paulogia]

It's always great when you class up the place with your charm and knowledge.

[@FakingANerve]

@@Paulogia Thank you both for the good work you do. Cheers to you guys and cheers to the great work your partners do as well. The products truly are greater than the sum of their parts! 🍻

[@fred_derf]

"Does archeology support the bible"? Yes, in the same way that the existence of New York supports the existence of Spider Man comics and the existence of London supports the Harry Potter books.

[@v0Xx60]

So... not at all? Wouldn't it be the other way around? Spider-Man comics support the existence of New York by taking place in that city?

[@fmtpulmanns7593]

Not really. Batman takes place in Gotham City. I'm fairly sure that's notba real place.

[@fred_derf]

@@fmtpulmanns7593 Who said anything about Batman?

[@v0Xx60]

​@@fmtpulmanns7593 That's not how evidence works. Batman comics actually are evidence for the existence of Gotham, the problem is that Gotham ONLY exists in comic books and it's existence can't be corroborated outside the literature, which amounts to hearsay. Hearsay IS evidence, it's just really bad evidence that shouldn't be accepted at face value.

[@ChJuHu93]

@@fmtpulmanns7593 Good point. Afaik a lot of those cities discussed in this video were named that way because christians/jew insisted those were the places these cities would have been. So in a couple hundred years someone may find Washington and name it Gotham because that was were Batman lived.

[@edgarsnake2857]

Great perspective on complex issues of archaeology and biblical 'history.' Thanks.

[@MrMild-sv7is]

Interesting that they brought up the story of the British museum curator translating the flood story from a private collection. That just so happens to be one of Irving Finkel’s favorite anecdotes. If I remember correctly, it caused quite a conundrum because you have “holy writ” on an older “pagan” tablet.

[@bodricthered]

Theres a lovely youtube of Irving giving that story to an audience of museum curators, worth a watch for both the scholarly and for the lols.

[@thhseeking]

Irving's tablet also had the instructions for building the "ark". It wasn't mentioned by Titus Kennedy because it wouldn't fit in with the Biblical account :P

[@kellydalstok8900]

I’m pretty sure that Finkel didn’t find the story on the tablet interesting from a religious perspective, because I don’t think he’s religious at all.

[@Dragoderian]

@@kellydalstok8900 During his recorded talk on the subject he was quite derisive of the religious implications.

[@grapeman63]

The owner of the private collection was none other than the late and legendary Douglas "Doughnut" Simmonds who'd inherited the collection from his father, Leonard. Finkel had to wait 20 years from the time he first saw the tablet, until Simmonds' death, before he could properly get his hands on it to translate!

[@Buzzcook]

I was pretty happy when I found out the Egyptian slavery and a lot of the stuff following it was mythic, because it meant several genocides didn't happen either.

[@irenafarm]

I literally this week realized the same thing!

[@stefanowohsdioghasdhisdg4806]

you'd think that Christians would be leading the charge on disproving these things but no, they're the ones insisting their god murdered everyone several times and saying "no no no it's not *actually* murder"

[@jannetteberends8730]

I particularly like the flood version where one of the gods decides to destroy humanity because they make so much noise that he can’t sleep. 😂

[@nathanmiller9918]

Inconsiderate f's

[@fordprefect5304]

Enlil But thanks to Enki we were saved. Enki also convinced Namma to create humans. Which she did out of mud. Enki is my fav, next to Inanna she was hot.

[@avi8r66]

I remember the Ron Wyatt years, he 'found' tons of stuff, and none of it went through proper scientific validation or review. It was always 'analyzed' by a lab secretly, or by people friendly to his mission. And that's when his 'find' wasn't just him saying he saw it but no one else did.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

Ron Wyatt was a genius, he must have been guided by god, as how else could he have had such amazing success in "finding" so many things? Either that or he was just an incredibly brazen liar, but it often amuses me when religious people point to him as an example of Archaeology "proving" the bible. They don't seem to realise how much of an own goal citing him actually is.

[@EdwardHowton]

What do you mean, it wasn't properly validated? I'm sure magic seeing-stones were put into a hat at _some_ point?!?

[@stultusvenator3233]

But Wyatt found the Ark 5 times I am aware of and even the real dried up blood of Jesus but could not find the report or remember the Lab it was tested at, now we will never know 😥

[@pineapplepenumbra]

@@stultusvenator3233 "now we will never know" But as Ron Wyatt was clearly guided by god, we can just take his word for it, so no worries.

[@stultusvenator3233]

@@pineapplepenumbra Absolutely, how we we have every known that Trees did not have Rings before the Flood. (apparently said with a strait face).

[@hatuletoh]

I studied ancient Assyria as an undergraduate just because I liked the professor and enjoyed the subject. Accidently ended up with a minor in classical history, and a great appreciation for the the bas reliefs of Ashurpanipal. Every time I'm in London I stop in at the British Museum to look at them, even when I don't have time to see any other exhibits. Fortunately, most tourists crowd around the Rosetta Stone, so I usually get the Assyrian reliefs all to myself.

[@kellydalstok8900]

If you ever chance to meet Irving Finkel at the museum, say hello from me.

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

Vol 1 of the atheist guide to the old testament was a very interesting read. Excited to pick up vol 2. Thank you Dr Josh and Paul

[@randomguyodst46]

It Doesn’t include mudfossils though because that’s proof for the flood.

[@LM-jz9vh]

@@randomguyodst46 No. *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. Google *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Are The Ten Commandments Based On The Forty-Two Principles Of Maat That Appeared 2,000 Years Earlier? - Ancient Pages"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"No, Humans Are Probably Not All Descended From A Single Couple Who Lived 200,000 Years Ago"* *"Adam & Eve: Theologians Try to Reconcile Science and Fail - The New Republic"* *"Adam and Eve: the ultimate standoff between science and faith (and a contest!) - Why Evolution Is True"* *"Bogus accommodationism: The return of Adam and Eve as real people, as proposed by a wonky quasi-scientific theory - Why Evolution Is True"* *"How many scientists question evolution? - **sciencemeetsreligion.org**"* *"What is the evidence for evolution? - Common-questions - BioLogos"* (A Christian organisation) *"Why scientists dismiss 'intelligent design' - Science"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

[@grapeshot]

Yep like they say when Jewish and Christian archaeologists go to find something they have the Bible in one hand and a shovel in the other.

[@avi8r66]

And the shovel often stays pretty clean.

[@donchristie420]

One of those gold ones, that they use for only photo ops-just one scoop😂

[@soonerarrow]

That the shovel stays clean while in the field is demonstrably true, what is even truer is that the shovel and then the pen are covered in bullshit when they come back to the lab.

[@KopitioBozynski]

@@avi8r66 c'mon man, it's hard to dig with only one hand

[@avi8r66]

@@soonerarrow I can see them now, out in the desert... Ok, Bible says they wandered 'the desert' for 40 years. Let's see, did we find a desert? Yes, cool, ok, story verified. And that's lunch!

[@CharlesPayet]

I read both of Josh’s new books on the OT for atheists in the last couple weeks - really good! I learned so much, even though it’s fairly difficult for me to keep all the details straight in my head. Good overview material though.

[@jeffgraham9208]

“…hold our conclusions in an open hand…” elegant.

[@lawrence5117]

Great stuff Paul, I love hearing from Dr Josh.. By the way I have both his latest books and they are well worth reading.

[@robind.phillips2129]

😃WOW! I'm ordering his book today to go with Volume 1! Thanks for sharing!

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Love Dr. Josh - he explains some complex stuff in ways that everyone can understand. Thanks Josh and Paul!

[@chrisose]

Even apologists who once appears somewhat reasonable, like Sean McDowell, are dropping all pretenses and going full biblical literalist. I'd say this is a sign that they know they are losing the argument.

[@Julian0101]

Oh no! This is a sign of the end of times!!! See how all those false apologists are failing and join my version of chirstianity!!! Which is the one totally right, trust me bro!!

[@nathanmiller9918]

It could be a sign that their most vocal supporters wanted something closer to extremism.

[@epiphanydrums5427]

⁠@@Julian0101 sounds like they’re “doubling down” , not unlike the numerous failed end times cults that proved themselves to be false but were nevertheless sustained by those who couldn’t accept they’d been duped. True of not just religious groups either: ideologies, philosophies, political beliefs, culturally accepted paradigms…just to name a few broad categories. I remember trying to convince myself as a child that Santa could really visit “everyone’s” house in a night, and fit all the tiny chimneys. Of course the larger chimneys wouldn’t be a problem. I simply blocked out my logical reasoning with hopes of the gifts that Christmas morning always brought. How could I have EVER doubted Santa? 😢 (Admittedly I left all of the elves out of the picture, my bad)

[@jdman6794]

I love Dr. Bowen. I need to get volume 2, I didn't know it was out. Thank you for having him on.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Dr Josh is great! Saw him on Shannon's live last night and your channel today. Awesome

[@DingusNate]

Just started reading part 1 of Dr Josh’s books referenced in the video. Loving it so far!

[@johnpetry5321]

Dr.Josh and Megan are two of my favorite people on KZbin. I have read Vol. 1 of the Atheist Guide to the Bible and am now about halfway through Vol. 2. They are both very well written for the common person and provide all the citations to all the actual scholarship supporting the discussions in the books. Well worth the expense.

[@moodyrick8503]

I find it fascinating that a "convinced Christian" (Megan) and an "avowed atheist" (Josh) can reconcile their opposing views & stay married. I'd love to hear that story, as I'm sure there would be lessons of value from both sides.

[@caroleanderson4020]

I have volume 1. Glad to here 2 is now available!

[@grayintheuk8021]

Great video Paulogia and Josh - many thanks

[@mizotter]

Thanks for all you do, Josh & Paul! Sending you BIG LOVE!

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Okay. You’ve sold me on the book Absolutely 23:45 re-evaluating life choices, blinking intensifies Cartoon Bowen and Paul Blinking back

[@tomsenior7405]

Excellent work. Noting how poorly Apologist Archaeology usually pans out, I wonder if Number 20 will be Christ's Foreskin discovered orbiting Saturn.

[@fordprefect5304]

Well the great Ron Wyatt did find Mary's cherry

[@tomsenior7405]

@@fordprefect5304 Excellent.

[@kayb9979]

There are around 20 to 40 holy foreskins floating around in European churches. I gather that Jesus just couldn't stop touching himself.

[@tomsenior7405]

@Gary Allen True. They say a Condom fit him like a glove.

[@ghanson1717]

@garyallen8824 Yep. I've been to several of the repositories of Jesus' foreskin. I can just in my mind's eye see the huckster at the corner of two camel paths telling the story to the crusader of the foreskin he has and will only begrudgingly part with for a few shekels. As with all the pieces of the 'true cross'. Saw a few of those on my travels through Europe.

[@lnsflare1]

Spider-Man gets the contemporary price of a hotdog in Queens correct, therefore Spider-Man is real. Also Loki, who he once bought a hotdog for.

[@jericosha2842]

Thanks for this. I'm a believer in God, but lately I'm unsure of how to understand and read much of it due to the spectrum of scholarly and historical thought. I purchased both books and will also read the book he referenced. Appreciate the hard work.

[@dbrownss1480]

Even if the conquest stories were true, it shows how the Jewish/Christian god is an objective monster. This was one of the first nicks in the armor of being a Christian for me

[@BeenDownSoLong...]

Did you know that Dr. Titus' degree is a DLit et Phil from U of S Africa according to his employer Shepherds Theological Seminary. No mention of archeological degrees.

[@Paulogia]

AUDIOBOOK version now available - amzn.to/3Q2RsVZ The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament: Volume 1 amzn.to/3AHrsuT The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament: Volume 2 amzn.to/3QR4lDV

[@Shai-eg6ew]

If you are saying the hebrew bible is an old covenant you say that there is a new one, so there are many covenants in the hebrew bible, with the nation of Israel in mount sinai, with Noah, and Abraham . Maybe more , so which one is the ancient one? and how come the new covenant is a covenant? It is not in front of the ppl or a man , it is not written in the way covenant were written , and god is not present, the covenant is with god not with Paul or whoever, I am an atheist , I do read the bible in hebrew and the problem with the christian books is that they are falsely translated to fit jesus in. There are a lot of covenants in the near east that were found and and they are basically all the same scripts , different ppl different god etc.

[@Shai-eg6ew]

Yes and there was a flood. , Bosphorus straits flooded the caspian sea so excavations there show that civilization was probably erased . Many cities were found sunk in that sea. And the ancient flood stories in the middle east might be ecoing a true historical event.

[@gregoryyoung1758]

Is Dr. Josh' book coming out on Audible? I loved V.1, and can't wait to get V.2.

[@Devilot109]

@@Shai-eg6ew Also pretty consistently amused as an aspiring Jew by how much Christians care about the literal accuracy of their stolen and altered version of the Tanakh, give that Jews generally *don't* care, and it's *their* scripture.

[@vernonchitlen8958]

Where’s the documented evidence demonstrating the natural origin of life? Even how the 4 elements, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen separated from the other 98 naturally occurring elements and arranged themselves into a single protein? Scientists cannot/ haven’t induced a set of amino acids sufficient for a single protein to form in a laboratory. Even cheating by sequestering 3 compounds and one element they knew amino acids are made of. Excluding all other 94 elements. Yet, claims not only one, but a prebiotic soup or whatever, managed to assemble 6.8 billion, and only the 20 specific ones, correctly sequenced, oriented and in their 100% left handed form in the 42 million proteins in the simplest cell?

[@shanewilson7994]

What absolutely blows my mind is him saying "the evidence for the flood and exodus" two things which really aren't supported by archeology at all, at least no as described in the Bible and the timelines.

[@monsterslayer4317]

Pure treasure. Thank you, Paulogia, and Dr. Bowen!

[@LapsedSkeptic]

Paulogia and Dr. Josh with a new video?..uh yes fcking please!

[@Hopeless_and_Forlorn]

So no matter how far back in time we look, we find no evidence of magical beings or supernatural events. I can live with that.

[@joseph-thewatcher]

Just bought Volume 2. I really enjoyed the first Volume and am glad to know that the second one is out.

[@leslieviljoen]

Thanks for the info Dr. Josh!

[@kevincameron1567]

Great to see Mr. Bowen again. Hadn't seen or heard of him lately. Was getting worried. Thanks Paulogia! I will check out Shannon Q's interview too. :)

[@egorall]

Whaaa? There's a Volume 2 out now? Heading to Amazon. [Pausing video]

[@stultusvenator3233]

Titus is a Research Fellow at the Discovery Institute nuff said. Conditioned and molded at Shepard's Seminary. Sorry to me he has no credibility at all, this 'expose' just confirms that opinion, thanks guys this work is so important keep it up.

[@jamiegallier2106]

Always enjoy Dr Josh’s insights, great video!

[@aerr9582]

Dr. Josh and Paulogia. Two of my favorite former christians.

[@oripando]

Exactly haha and two of the best by the way

[@randomguyodst46]

So called Christians.

[@aerr9582]

@@randomguyodst46 lol. Seriously gonna try and play the no true scotsman this early? They both have all the credibility here. They say they were. There is no reason not to believe them.

[@randomguyodst46]

@@aerr9582 lol you think they were? Paul never been a Christian, I never once heard that he believes Jesus Christ is the son of God and believe he died with his blood shed on the cross for his sins and buried and resurrection on the third day, can’t call him a Christian if he doesn’t believe in that.

[@randomguyodst46]

@@aerr9582 and im sure you were told to believe nonsense at school lol

[@Edgarbopp]

This is fantastic. More content like this please!

[@ceicli]

Once I saw a documentary about the search for the cross of Jesus (think it was National Geographic Channel). The presenter was very eager to find anything about the cross and repeatedly said things like "so this is from the year of...", "wow, we found...". The exasperated scientist always answered "we can't be sure, tests show it's from this (whatever year it was) era" and similar things. I watched belief and science in action!

[@gullyfoyle3253]

Great content, thank~you! I would listen to Dr. Josh watching paint dry.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

Another excellent video. Thank you. Biblical archeology has been conducted for almost 150 years, most of it by people looking for proof to support their religious beliefs. We should be thankful that, in the majority of cases, they were professional enough to publish their findings honestly, even when it conflicted with their exists beliefs. The only examples we have of 'archeology' supporting biblical stories have been debunked as fraud or, at the very least, incredible feats of wishful thinking.

[@jamiehudson3661]

What you just said is a totally not true.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

@@jamiehudson3661 I'm afraid it is. Unless you can provide examples to prove me wrong. One or two Documents and a stone stele have been found that contain reference to a king David and a few later monarchs and villages have been uncovered that are in places where the Old Testament placed them but that is it. There is nothing else significant. Certainly nothing to support any Bible story. On the other hand, we can now show clearly that the Genesis version of creation, Adam & Eve, the flood, the tower of Babel, the exodus, the conquest of the promised land and various other stories did not happen. We also have only the Bible to support claims of Jesus as anything more than a Jewish preacher. If he really was the most important person ever to have lived, this seems a little strange. If you can demonstrate something different, with genuine evidence, I would love to know.

[@jamiehudson3661]

@@Outspoken.Humanist I think you are wrong again. kzbin.info/aero/PL1mr9ZTZb3TVhsJ06Zb4FRQfEAVajfDg-

[@DJ-73]

@@jamiehudson3661 explain why you disagree with Paul Davis-Cooke?

[@jamiehudson3661]

@@DJ-73 He must have deleted his comments to my comment. He is claiming that archeology doesn't support the reliability of the Bible. I gave him many examples.

[@ericpierce3660]

Sean McDowell goes to the barber and says "Give me that upsweep with plenty of gel so I can look cool and hip for the younger crowd", forgetting that it only looked cool back when he was in college in 1996. He probably still jams to Alanis Morissette's 'Ironic' because in his mind she's still the epitome of rad. When he wants to turn it down a notch he digs into his cd collection and then he and his wife slow dance in the living room to Hootie and the Blowfish.

[@DavidSmith-vr1nb]

I resent this attack on 1996. Lots of people were alive then who are not Sean McDowell. Also, that upsweep was already out of date even then.

[@nathanmiller9918]

He's always wanted to like Tom Petty, but all that Mary Jane stuff...

[@slik00silk84]

Dr.Bowen's summary at the end accurately puts the nails in the coffin for the Books of Moses. As the Jewish analyst, Lewis Black put it....those stories were just told to distract them from the fact that they didn't have air conditioning !

[@PeteOtton]

And no TV!

[@cookiescraftscats]

Terrific commentary by Dr. Bowen.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

At 22:30 or so, it is important to explain that you have to balance the confirming evidence with the rebutting evidence to reach a conclusion. If my theory is that my dice roll six uncommonly frequently, I have to find both the positive and the negative observations and look at them together. In the case of McDowell, if he looks for confirmation he will find confirmation, either by chance or by actual good verification information. If he does not state a possible falsification criterion, his observations say absolutely nothing.

[@aralornwolf3140]

There is a mathematically formula you could use to determine if your die are unbalanced.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

@@aralornwolf3140 My point is that apologists count the successes and ignore the failures to get to their conclusions. For example, they show how historically valid the crucifixion story is because Pilate is a totally verified historical figure but "forget" that he was also an impressively cruel person who would have never shied away from sending a Jew to the cross, probably without even a hint of evidence.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@andresvillarreal9271 , I understood your point... but your analogy was flawed and I thought I could help you with your dice... Have a good day/night!

[@JimmyTuxTv]

Love your art. Well done

[@jasa_TheRealOne]

Ooooo Paulogia and Not Kent Hovind! I love Dr. Josh's insight and hope he's able to come on more.

[@dersitzpinkler2027]

Dr Josh is awesome. Great episode

[@ProgressOnly]

Yay Dr. Bowen and Paulogia team up!

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Quoting Captain Kirk, Why does god need pitch? God could make the boat float without pitch. Even back then, the Bible authors were trying to use scientific facts to make their miracles more plausible.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

Good point! For that matter, why does God need a flood? If the trouble was sexual sins …why not fire up a sexually transmitted disease to only target the guilty and not the victims?

[@baviu002]

Another great book about thuis topic is The Bible Unearthed by Finkelstein and Silberman that reconstructs the Jewish history based on archeological finds and contradicts that with the old testament.

[@LogicAndReason2025]

Bottom line - if such a god really existed, he could easily have an e-book available to all with updates that would be so good and clear, that no apologetic would be needed. An all powerful being could just make his own immaterial Alexa for everyone.

[@zenkim6709]

"Holy Koolaid" did an entire video on his YT channel focusing specifically on that 1 issue w/ Christian (& by logical extension theistic) dogma -- the title of the video was more or less "The Problem with Instruction" ...as in, the problem of reconciling the belief in a perfect, all-knowing & all-powerful Supreme Being w/ the evidence of insufficient, inconsistent & downright incompetent divine efforts to properly instruct His / Her creation as to what was expected of them. To paraphrase the words of Carl Sagan ... if God were real, He'd be the worst schoolteacher that ever existed. If He had any competition, He'd be out of a job.

[@natsusatsujinki8342]

Even God did would the people actually listen or try to refute the truth 🤔

[@zenkim6709]

@@natsusatsujinki8342 ... well, for starters, *which* God are we referring to? - Ahura Mazda (the "Wise Lord" of Zoroastrianism)? - Ra (the "Sun God" of ancient Egyptian religion)? - Shiva (the "Goddess of Destruction" from Hinduism)? - Zeus (the "King of The Olympians" from ancient Greece)? - Allah (the "True God of Abraham" according to Islam)? - Yaweh (the Jealous God of Judaism)? (We won't go into Christianity here, since that involves a nasty fork bomb.) All of the above versions of God are mutually exclusive -- none of them agree w/ each other & each claims that the others are false Gods, plus their associated belief systems & teachings clash wildly w/ each other. If only 1 God has the legitimate claim to divine truth & no other ... then *which God is it*? To paraphrase the words of Sean Carroll: If there really *was* an all-powerful, all-knowing & all-loving God, & if that God truly had a message of eternal truth & wisdom for us all, then I would expect that message to be embodied in a single, clearly intelligible text, that it would be self-consistent & logically compatible w/ observable reality, & that it wouldn't contain any laws or stories that would prove reprehensible or otherwise morally problematic over time as human culture progressed. On the other hand, if there simply *isn't* any God, then I would expect a multitude of different texts, each portraying a unique image of the One True God / Goddess. Each text would contain various & incomprehensible language terms, idioms & other expressions made obscure due to translations, linguistic drift & clerical errors, the texts would harbor contradictions within themselves & exhibit logical inconsistencies w/ what we now know thanks to modern science, & they would endorse laws such as the 1 that commands slaves to always be loyal to their owners & stories such as the entire Book of Job which are absolutely abhorrent when examined under the clear light of modern social progress. Now ... which of these theories best fits the data?

[@flolou8496]

@@zenkim6709 Philosophically this argument is weak because the lack of supernatural proof in the history of mankind would eventually if given and demanded by creation, would overwhelm the ''free will and choice of the human condition'' . Mankind would be forced into believing, not choosing to believe, and without choice, there is no true sense of desire or the true nature of love.

[@JCW7100]

Dr Josh and Paul, today is a good day!

[@DavidBanta-multi-platinum]

Paulogia I have a question. I'm a huge fan I discovered you right after your first video on here and I watch every one. Do you feel like this channel influenced the 2020 election at all? I mean i see it as more Christians versus non-science deniers rather than parties divided. If you swayed enough people away from Christianity that may have changed their vote? Please keep it up

[@playtime5051]

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. It is those whom know little which assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin

[@alisonmcglone750]

Dr Josh for the win.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Great info from Dr Josh

[@kendrabueckert1750]

Awesome!!! Thanks Paul!

[@brickwitheyes1710]

Awesome. Paul and Josh are the best

[@fudgesauce]

Right off the bat, Sean McDowell and Dr Kennedy state how the old flood text didn't mention animals being loaded onto the boat, but then someone found an older version that includes the animal narrative. That is all fine, but I wonder how they reconcile it with the common apologist claim that we can trust these ancient stories because people back then had a great memory and fidelity to the original narrative was paramount, thus we can believe all the stuff that eventually got written down in the bible.

[@kellydalstok8900]

They just make it up as they go along

[@zenkim6709]

Short answer: cherrypicking.

[@michaelsommers2356]

The curator to whom the tablet was taken was Irving Finkel. Here's his account: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZDJnKOQiNOtaKs

[@williambeckett6336]

The gall these types have staggers me: They insist older versions, with different characters, different gods and different motives, are all wrong and their version, the youngest by a thousand years minimum...is the real one. As ridiculous as it is dishonest. And as for Hammurabi's law code? Theists want to point to it and say "Ha!" our law code is older!" It isn't and the Law code of UR-NAMMU is hundreds of years older than Hammurabi's. And the law code of URUKAGINA is older still. Now we don't have Urukagina's but we know it existed because it's referenced in other law codes.

[@thecountalucard666]

Remember that bit in the Bible where metalworking was just something that one guy worked out on his own, in defiance of all the archaeological evidence?

[@stefanowohsdioghasdhisdg4806]

He was also evil because he was descended from Cain. That just makes you automatically evil apparently

[@26beegee]

Excellent, logical, fact based discussion.

[@robsquared2]

The "wait, what?" intro was great. :D

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video :)

[@aaronchizmar9271]

Which Dever book did Dr. Josh recommend? I checked Amazon, and he’s written dozens!

[@theRandy712]

That was FANTASTIC

[@blindazabat9527]

For having seen a video from the British Museum about Mesopotamian clay tablets, I don't believe the Curator would have a cursory glanse at a tablet and read "bring the animals on the boat 2 by 2". It takes the best specialists in this topic a longer time to translate those things.

[@calanm7880]

Just ordered my Volume1 after watching this. I spent years trying to shoehorn reality to match the theology in my head, and wouldn’t even look at any archeological materials that would challenge that - yep, those experts and scholars couldn’t see the “truth” or came to wrong conclusions because they didn’t have faith. I had lecturers trying to tell me about all this in the 90s, and I wrote them off as heathens 🫣, 30+ years later the penny finally dropped lol thanks to channels like this.

[@laurajarrell6187]

Paulogia, you and Dr. Josh did great here! My phone almost made me miss this! The funniest part to me, with the apologists, shall we say misinformed answers, were that Israel sent it's own archeologists, wanting the deed so to speak, for the new country. They were honest! They searched hard for evidence of scriptures. They found none. On the contrary, they pretty much proved the exodus, the flood, (there were local floods), Jericho, and Sodom and Gomorrah plus more, were all mythical, as far as the biblical accounts. And later, DNA shows no signs of Hebrew slaves in Egypt, especially not building pyramids! The real truths I'm sure are in Dr. Josh's books, much truer than the 'rumors' I listed! My sources are likely as biased against as these apologists are for, lol. 👍🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌

[@BackwardAssassin]

It's very interesting how Titus tries to use the price of a slave in the Joseph story to show that the story is historically accurate to the time period of 1800 BC, when that same story contains other *huge* anachronisms for that period. Joseph was sold to a Caravan riding on *camels,* when domesticated camels weren't even used in the region until roughly 930 BC, nearly a thousand years later!

[@desperadox7565]

When archeologists of the future will dig up New York, will that prove Spiderman?

[@frogstamper]

Josh is a master in his field and always informs, also, he does a very good impression of Kent Hovind...:)

[@pmtoner9852]

Great discussion

[@stevenw9663]

Thank you for this...I love to hear more about the archaeology compared to the old testament

[@Eyammovie]

You know what's funny... Christian try to discredited the Quran because it has stories that are similar to the bible... By saying "Muslims copied from the bible" but when it comes to the bible stories being found in other mesopotamian myth books they say "it's a confirmation that the story really happened"

[@JamesRichardWiley]

With a shovel in one hand and a Bible in the other the search for the truth continues.

[@zenkim6709]

Yeah, it's just like that passage from Robert Pirsig's book "Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" [paraphrasing] -- We all say that we're looking for the truth. Then one day, the truth comes knocking on our door -- & we yell, "Go away! I'm looking for the truth!" And so the truth walks away, puzzled. Tho he didn't use the term (because he started writing "Zen" back in the 1970s) in the book, Pirsig was probably hinting @ the issue of "confirmation bias" -- the human tendency to place greater value on information that reinforces prior conclusions vs evidence & signs that our prior conclusions may be unreliable or otherwise inaccurate. This, of course, is the essence of self-correction in the scientific method & self-policing within the scientific community: anything & anyone is subject to review & reevaluation, no matter how much inconvenience or personal dismay it involves. Contrast this critical-thinking approach to the "faith-based thinking" worldview of the "Intelligent Design" / "Christian Science" camp, in which *everything* must either outright confirm or be spun / contorted mightily to not (@ least on the surface) undermine Christian dogma ...leading to such preposterous claims as The Volcano Solution to explain how Australian marsupials somehow made it all the way from the Middle East to Australia after the "Great Flood" receded w/o leaving behind a breadcrumb trail of fossilized remains along the way -- by being catapulted en masse by volcanic eruption (no, I'm not kidding). That is a position which not merely encourages Christian apologists to propose the absurd, it is a mindset that forces them to promote the outright assinine -- all in defense of their precious Bible & their religious dogma, which may as well be cordoned off w/ a huge sign reading, "HOLY -- DO NOT QUESTION". The tragically ridiculous thing is that so many Christian apologists use the False Equivalency fallacy to try & cast the scientific community in an unfavorable light -- as tho scientists were nothing more than a priesthood blindly following the tenets of a godless faith-based dogma, never mind the crucial difference that scientific proposals *must* B falsifiable & should B put to the test whenever the means is available -- i.e.: does this proposal hold up against reality?

[@PeteOtton]

@@zenkim6709 I guess they never watched Mythbusters. If they did, then they would realize just how little overpressure from a blast is needed to turn internal human organs into mush, which I would extend to most the rest of the animal kingdom. And what would keep them from breaking every bone in their bodies when they land?

[@fepeerreview3150]

13:00 In the early 1950s a hamburger bought at the drive-in cost about 10 cents. So if I write a story set in the 1950s and include a detail where my hero buys a hamburger for 10 cents then my story is true? This is no different than saying Spiderman existed because NYC is a real place.

[@angrydoggy9170]

Yep, that’s how archeology works. The same techniques can be used to confirm the Harry Potter books, you can even book a tour.

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@angrydoggy9170 go to Kings Cross Station around around 11 on September 1st. When I was there a couple of years ago, it was teeming with young people. It didn’t dawn on me why they were there until I got home. If it had, I would have checked it out, because I had plenty of time before the Eurostar left.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

This first subject that Sean and Dr. Kennedy brings up about the "Atrahasis tablets" - the "British Museum Curator" he mentions (without telling us his name) is Dr. Irving Finkel. In several of Dr Finkel's lectures and his book The Ark Before Noah: Decoding the Story of the Flood - his appraisal of the similarities (and differences) with the biblical story leads him to conclude that the Hebrew writers of Genesis (no, not Moses) picked up these stories of creation and the flood from their captivity period and they took from the various Sumerian, Akkadian, and Babylonian myths this part, and that part, to build the stories we see in Genesis. The book of Genesis did not exist back in the time of Moses. They needed to fill in their back history so they took from these stories they were exposed to later.

[@xz0938]

"Titus M. Kennedy is a professional field archaeologist, an adjunct professor at Biola University, a research fellow at Discovery Institute"

[@avi8r66]

"a research fellow at Discovery Institute" ... they don't hire honest people. That would be problematic for their mission.

[@soonerarrow]

Ahh... He's a member of the Professional Liars Society, alongside such other notable, no, notorious members like Casey Luskin and Stephen Meyer. The Discovery Institute is an organization that uses Christian psuedo-science to promote Biblical Creationism, cast false aspersions on the widely tested and vastly scholarly accepted scientific Theory of Evolution and continue their repeated failed attempts to smuggle Biblical Creationism into the public schools under the generic name of Intelligent Design.

[@avi8r66]

@@soonerarrow Yep, same mission as Answers in Genesis, Ken Ham, Institution for Creation Research and many others. They hire dishonest 'experts' willing to place faith over facts and use their phd's, even if unrelated, to pretend to be authoriites on the subject at hand.

[@DesGardius-me7gf]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, asking a Christian apologist if the Bible is supported by evidence is like asking a 12 year old Justin Bieber groupie for an honest, unbiased critique of the latest Justin Bieber album.

[@BassGoBomb]

Oh good .... LOLOLOLOL ... :-)

[@Venaloid]

23:10 - Wait, didn't Titus just say that the more we dig, the more the Bible stories are confirmed? So why then is scholarship becoming more skeptical about those stories? Is he really going to claim an academic conspiracy?

[@beatduck]

This was so great!!!!

[@dod-do-or-dont]

Will probably get one, thx

[@ZenWithKen]

When you go from the answer to the question, it's hard to be wrong.😉

[@nathanmiller9918]

And you're willing to dismiss all of the viable evidence along the way...

[@ZenWithKen]

@@nathanmiller9918 Evidence built from the answer to the question is not evidence. I would be a theist if there were actual evidence.

[@nathanmiller9918]

@@ZenWithKen I agree, coupled with a willingness to dismiss viable evidence and one could believe anything.

[@DavidIacono]

My favorite people! Cheers!

[@davidoliver9551]

Love Dr. Bowen!!! ❤️❤️❤️