Pax Pamir Second Edition Review

[@Ravendas]

13min in... "If you lose your last tribe in a region, you lose all your cards in that region". It's actually just the purple political cards. Not all of your court cards. Purple cards are the only ones to put out tribes, and the tribes are tied to them, and vice versa. Lose the last purple card for a region? Tribes in that region are removed. Lose the last tribe in a region? All of your purple cards in that region are removed. The rule specifically has the purple political icon next to it, as a reminder.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Pinned this in the hopes other viewers are alerted to the rules error.

[@slingshot_diviningrod]

@@NoPunIncluded Have you tried the game with the correct overthrow rule? That should really stabilize the game in a way you might enjoy given your criticism about chaotic board states.

[@redsands1001]

Playing this tomorrow. Or at least overseeing it if we end up with 4 and me. Thanks for this reminder

[@Ravendas]

I only made this post because it's actually a common thing for people to miss, and it's a huge rule. I missed it, thinking 'political cards are those cards you buy', not realizing 'oh, political cards refer only to the purple suit'. Took a few reads and a trip to BGG to sort it out. Figured if I missed it, others would too.

[@rafakruczek5622]

@@NoPunIncluded What error? it was VERY clearly stated in video that "all cards from region is discarded" ITSN'T the rule in the game :)

[@RockinBobXYZ]

The comment about needing a sensitivity warning for the slave market is a teachable moment. The slave markets of Afghanistan operated for many centuries. The slaves were Persians, Afghans, Indians, and Russians. In fact, it was the presence of Russian slaves - captured by Turcomen raiding the Russian steppes and sold and held in the Afghan Khanate of Khiva - that served as a casus belli for Russians to invade Afghanistan. And it was British agents who secured the freedom of those Russian slaves in 1840, as a stratagem of the Great Game to deny Russia that casus belli (the British Empire had abolished slavery in 1833 - it was practiced in Afghanistan until 1920 or so). So Russians were both the victims of slavery (and the modern gamers whose discomfort would presumably be addressed by a warning about slave markets?), and a colonial invader, while the other colonial power, Britain, secured the freedom of the slaves. Then of course there's Persia, the powerful neighbor that repeatedly invaded, occupied, and exploited Afghanistan. Persians enslaved Afghans, and vice-versa. In other words, it's much more complex and nuanced than modern political attitudes around slavery and colonialism recognize. Which is one of the pleasures, for many of us, of historical simulations - they help us step out of our modern shoes and understand a complex world from a historical perspective.

[@JoshuaLivie]

I always love your research and perspective on board games.

[@tundranocaps]

You can really see the inspirations from this that made it to Root, and I'm not talking about how Root is modeled as a "Pax" game, but the nature of point acquisition, the fluidity, and the multi-purpose use of cards. And I really want to play more Root, it dominated my months after the last time I played it, and hadn't played it since :(

[@davidenania7386]

I own this game, I played it a lot, I got frustrated a lot because of the overwhelming rules but I love it to tears and it will stay in my collection forever. I have seen this review when it went out but I love so much you guys and this game that I came back to rewatch it. Greetings from Italy!

[@snarfdk]

Your videos just keep getting better and better and I keep becoming a bigger and bigger fan. Once again: well done!

[@bushibayushi]

Try Pax Renaissance guys. A stellar design.

[@robertchmielecki2580]

…but where can I get it nowadays ? It's apparently sold out all over Europe.

[@rafakruczek5622]

@@robertchmielecki2580 Quite contrary, it's sold out everywhere in world, besides the Europe. There is Czech edition avaialble :) and Spanish deluxe edition going into printing

[@rafakruczek5622]

But Pax Emancipation is even better. Cooperiative-competitive game is default game ( and suprise, suprise it is working). Slavery is full blown topic, not a mention on one of cards. And every page in manual has at least one miniature Phil's Eklund essey in form of footnote. And it comes with advanced rules and glossary of game terms ( and some rules sneaked into glossary). And it is so niche that NOW is probably only window of avaiaibility for this game.It probably be sold out during Essen Spiel and probably even before.

[@marioabadfernandezdelacigo8893]

@@robertchmielecki2580 in Spain we're having a Spanish deluxe edition soon, so many Spanish people are selling their original copies now. It's a good time to browse

[@SamuelVriezen]

There's a reprint in the works. Next year probably.

[@robertyoung8615]

its my game of the year so far and after putting in 10 games within a week of getting it it has put itself in my top 5. I'm generally apprehensive to make a conclusion like that with such a new game but this one just really struck a nerve with me.

[@WWFanatic0]

"Let's go do a learn" is a great phrase and I'm stealing it.

[@romain2725]

Just found out about this channel, your review style is both entertaining and insightful, I'm impressed. As I play mostly wargames/consims, none of the previous reviews had come to my attention. What I can say about Pamir is that it feels nothing like a regular consim, it's far more abstract than most hence the difficulty to internalize rules. I had the same experience with Pax Renaissance, I still have to check the fiddly parts all the time, no matter how many times I've played it, simply because a lot of the rules work together to create the big picture rather than each rule representing a specific aspect that would make it easy to memorize it. Pax Pamir is a breeze though after Renaissance. Most of the stuff you need is on the player boards. But it's one of those very opaque games where figuring out how what you need to do to play semi-competently is a long process of trial and error.

[@isaacbrooks6561]

“I am a good man. And thorough.” A+ subtle Big Lebowski reference.

[@Quietwulf1978]

What a fascinating game. Thanks for taking the time to break it down in such an entertaining way 😁

[@forifisher]

I've only played the 1st edition of Pax Pamir, but this review brilliantly articulated pretty much all of my sentiments about that game. I would say I have mixed feelings about Root, and actively dislike Pax Pamir (even though the game has so many tantalizing ideas.) I generally prefer An Infamous Traffic (probably because it's shorter), although even that game has its shortcomings for me. Either way, I like what Cole Wehrle is doing with games; he's experimenting and even when experiments don't work, they are at least interesting. I say all of that because the one Cole Wehrle game that I do adore without reservation is John Company. It's every bit as complicated as Pax Pamir and every bit as unique, but I find it easier to understand the game state. There are fewer situations where I feel like I lost because I forgot one rule, and when there are big swings in the game, they feel less random and unpredictable. At the end of the video, you all state that you "can't wait to see what Cole Wehrle does next." I think you should play and review John Company; I would love to hear what you all think of it!

[@Dometooplz]

Johns Company is my favorite negotiation game. The promises cube system is a brilliant piece of game design that solves the binding agreements issue in an elegant way. The theme is amazing and very critical of the colonial era. The only odd thing is the roll to retire mechanic, but I can totally live with it.

[@DianeMountford]

Thanks, guys! I got to play An Infamous Traffic a couple weeks ago ... another Cole Wehrle game dripping with historical irony. I don't consider myself a war gamer, but his designs are incredibly compelling. I'm sad I ended up not backing Pax Pamir on Kickstarter.

[@robertyoung8615]

you can still pick it up on their website if you're in the US. It is a bit more expensive, $85+shipping but very likely last opportunity to get it until they reprint it.

[@whoisbatman]

Great stuff. You can tell a lot of work went into it, so kudos to you.

[@ToddCarter]

Sure. There’s a lot of rules. But that’s why they have a player aid. You only have to remember how a specific action works when you need to do it and then you consult the player aid. No need to keep it all in your head. Player aids are pretty common in wargaming and historical simulation. Anyways, loved the review anyway and I hope to get more people into this new more simplified version of this greats game.

[@josephpilkus1127]

Absolutely tremendous game. I learned this title over the weekend by a very experienced player and I had a great time. Looking forward to buying it down the road

[@Merlandese]

Great review, thanks for putting this on my radar.

[@bumblingthroughdungeons]

Is that Rodney Smith riding the goose at 11:00? Lovely touch there.

[@jakubgrygiel9795]

I would love to hear an explanation as to exactly which artwork on the cards is "suspect", I mentioned this accusation to other people I've played the game with and we are all at a loss to find exactly what you mean.

[@carrickrichards2457]

So clever it is quite demanding to grapple with. All the many characters, tools and regions are constantly shifting. John Company, Pax Emancipation, Infamous Traffic (due a 2nd edition 2024-5?), Pax Renaissance are all of similar thematic depth.

[@xlittlep]

I bought the game based off this review. I received it a week and a half later and it's really, really good. Better than Root.

[@NoPunIncluded]

So glad you're enjoying it.

[@anjovimusic]

*after listening to rule critique for obtuseness of overthrow rule: well...it actually only applies to political cards...LOL! I think this was a very common mistake folks made and only validates the critique more. I found the core rules pretty slick, but would really love a reference card for all of the nitty bits like overthrow, x2 cost for cards during military suit activation, etc. That said, I might only recommend this game to people who want alot of levers to throw in the geo-politicin' of a historical space...But my, does it deliver! Loved the review! I loved the extra context of the historical components of the setting, as well as the publisher history. I dig the 'board game special' approach to these reviews.

[@Mark-hp2ko]

Just discovered your channel, good review. Would love to see your take on another Cole Wehrle game, Oath. Thanks.

[@maitt008]

First time on this channel. Instant subscribe, superb review!

[@heathcliff1801]

Regarding Mr. Eklund’s essay on defense of british colonianism, here are a few articles (much more could be found) that make us wonder about the benevolent noble action of the british and their historic concern and contribution to the welfare of others. Colonialist minds like Mr. Eklund’s like to imagine the colonialists as bearers of modernity and advancement to the societies they colonised. They purposely forget that never has the motivation to colonise been for the benefit of the colonised, but solely for the colonisers’. This can be said for the british as well as others, like the french, the dutch, the german, the spanish and the portuguese. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/22/british-empire-museum-colonial-crimes-memorial english.khamenei.ir/news/2197/8-10-million-Iranians-died-over-Great-Famine-caused-by-the-British en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_famine_of_1917-1919 www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12992540 www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jul/22/comment.mainsectio

[@Wonderflonium]

Love the box flip at the end!

[@thomasgraham5281]

Bonus actions do not count to the two action per turn limit, they are restricted by cost and suit, though

[@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm]

Oh wow... I would never ever never expect to find a mention about Mickiewicz in an ENG language YT video... about a boardgame... about the Great Game in XIX century... You guys just added new levels to the "subvert expectations" trend. P.S. And pardon me Efka, I don't remember how to spell his name in Lithuanian 😔

[@crookedevolution]

I gotta disagree that the tax action is too convoluted. The threat of being taxed by a ruler changes how people view the card market! It's so key. Thanks for all you do, love your review!

[@mark_midmark]

I've never heard of you two, but I'm 4 minutes in and really enjoying. Going to keep watching, just wanted to give some praise! Edit: Oh my god the the strategic explanation with the stuffed animals is hilarious.

[@jozefzero9618]

Love the new Moby table! it adds splendid vantage angles to the review scheme, and is a neat place for Elaine to rest her weary Paxpamir'ed head. ( Jealous in many ways, cuz wish i had one...One day, folks....one day.....)A table, Marvelous in many ways, and mysterious in wondering what game lurks within its hidden compartment. Great review, as well, seems like you have regained your runner's pace now that the kickstarter marathon is weeks behind. Cheers mates!

[@KaaptnIglo]

out of curiosity, what pics do you deem suspect? I played the games quite a bit and never noticed something dodgy oO

[@mzy115]

what about the, "the alternative persuasion" Is this the name of the card? a purchase effect of an event card. I think it suggests some kind of exchange of mmmm and mmmm

[@johnwalsh4857]

well the game struturally is easy to play, but the complications are int he cards, Pax Pamir so far is the best Pax game I have played , (played Pax Porfiana and Pax Renaissance, ), love this game's elegance of play , and lots of player interactions, the games are not dull . lots of back and forth.

[@stevegeorge7773]

Great your collection of DandD books.

[@joshuawood7954]

you guys are stellar

[@stepanxol]

Yep, this rules. I only want to watch NPI.

[@Cerhob]

Loved the Big Lebowski reference. Game looks great.

[@Kallistosprom]

Great game, I do enjoy the Pax games.

[@LukeVenables]

Great video. Enjoyed your take even if I didn't 100% agree. The things you didn't like are part of the appeal for me. I didn't know about that essay as I'd never heard of Pax Pamir before the 2nd edition came out. Such an educational channel. Thanks.

[@pauk.w]

How did i not notice Bright Eyes in the background until now?!

[@danilocezarcabral]

Great Review!

[@rkk667]

Nice outro, thanks for the video:)

[@titwarbler]

Wow, thanks for the history lesson! 🇦🇫

[@titwarbler]

Wow, and a Big Lebowski reference! 🎳

[@titwarbler]

And a box flip!

[@chrisjohnphillips6352]

Thank you for another stellar review. How would you estimate the skill to luck ratio? Sounds like perhaps it varies by player count.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Both luck and skill are high.

-Do you know much about afghan history ? -In 1878, the afghan buglers in the english army were wearing underwater watches.

[@dhyedrated]

+1 " good man and thorough" well done !

[@leobetosouza]

That tuttle is Donatello. Please, he have a name.

[@razorboy251]

Goddammit, how did I miss that Kickstarter?! I hope there will be some retail copies...

[@NoPunIncluded]

It's available through the retailers website.

[@nerdfatha]

I wasn't interested in the game before and still am not, but the reviews you two do are so dang entertaining I will gladly stop and watch.

[@pishva3008]

Happy owner of the 1st edition :)

[@szajko4360]

I was surprised to learn about Phil Eklund's essay, especially because he has recently published one of the most socially sensitive games I know of: Pax Emancipation, where the goal is to abolish slavery. Also, that game is nothing like this one, it is a (semi-)coop with victory points. I think that one might be a better fit for you (it was certainly a better fit for me!).

[@SamuelVriezen]

The Eklund take on slavery is rather... unorthodox. For one, all the Abolitionists are basically British imperial players. For another one, most abolition seems to go on in... Asia and the Middle East. I guess this might surprise one or two people hailing from China or India, say. For a very extensive analysis of the game, its political underpinnings, the problems with the story it tries to tell, and the brilliance with which it tells its very problematic story, there's a pretty amazing essay to be found here: boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/89760/pax-exasperation For my money, I'll gladly play just about any Eklund - except this title, I don't think I could bring myself to try it.

[@marccampbell3851]

Pax Emancipation seems socially sensitive until you realize that the only reason it exists is so that Phil could justify colonialism. In the game you play as either the British government, Christianity, or a rich British guy. It abstracts away generations of discriminatory laws and policies as an occasional "hate roll" because the people got angry. Keep in mind that at the same time this game takes place, the East India Company was in full swing. Also if you read the footnotes he calls Abe Lincoln a "Great Dictator" and says that the primary reason for the Holocaust was that the German people just really hated bankers.

[@canalmiokanka]

Have you guys analized john company?

[@sebastiang.5032]

Awesome video!

[@TheJoaninhaMendes]

Guys, please try Pax Transhumanity, from a "Pax veteran", I can say that it is the best and most straightforward of them all. I am happy to see Pax games being reviewed by the big reviewers, they are too good to be niche :)

[@MrLocuzt]

Tried a demo in Essen 2 YEARS ago and i still think about that game... maybe its time to buy it. Played Pax Pamir (second e) today and while i didnt particularly liked root after playing through the different factions. This one will have longer staying power i think. It was great!

[@pete7421]

Does this game give a similar feel to Inis?

[@JerreMuesli]

"You pax, or you Pamir" Mhehehe

[@peterfiser]

13:32 loving the watch

[@martinbarker5739]

Great review, best yet. Can you give any examples of the problematic artwork in the second edition? Thanks.

[@Gfloresadam]

Seconding this question, I had a quick Google after you mentioned it, but couldn't find any results.

[@66morningview]

I have the game and while I have not looked at every card in detail, what I do know is that the art is mostly from a British artist in Afghanistan at the time. So while most of the game is seen from an Afghan perspective, the art is looking from decidedly the other direction and is a product of its time. Personally I dont find it offensive (of course I am not an Afghani, so who am I to say), but given the context of the game I find the art appropriate to the story being told and the comment of it being problematic by NPI to be nit-picking.

[@caomhan84]

Exactly. The art is not "problematic" at all (and I hate how that word is thrown around willy-nilly these days). Even Cole wrote an essay about it, and his essay was reaching, reachingggggg for reasons to find it "problematic." The fact of the matter is, (1) that's the art that is available, so it's included in the game (2) it is BEAUTIFUL artwork and all vintage, and (3) the nature of that time period, and Central Asia as a whole, meant that cultures came into contact with one another, observed each other, absorbed each other...that's just how it was. The problem with Presentism is trying to find a "problem" with this ("Oh it's so orientalist!" etc).....where none exists. The solution? Stop reaching, and let the past be the past.

[@Treadstone1986]

@@caomhan84 I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe it's directly from a historical text at University of Wyoming as well. To me, NPI's reaction is one that seems to be lacking that context and treating the artwork as if it were done by a modern artist.

[@Treadstone1986]

@@caomhan84 If it were a modern artist creating the art for modern people in Afghanistan, it would be incredibly problematic. That just isn't the case here.

[@bjornprompeler9424]

Great review, thank you : D

[@RvLeshrac]

"Yes, imagine spending years of your time, effort, and money only to have it unraveled because your opposition completely blindsided you." -Alexander II

[@the1gofer]

Let’s do a learn. :)

[@elphez]

Rory Stewart (yes, that one) made an excellent documentary series about this exact topic. Funnily enough it's call "Afghanistan : The Great Game" and can be found right here on the tubes of you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ6apn9qhplnrdU. Recommended!

[@alexcannon-microdot]

What on earth is Efka holding in his right hand the whole time?

[@matthewharris-levesque5809]

The key to the Knife drawer.

[@jasonbrown1169]

Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament.

[@wheelskis]

In your table review, I thought you needed to review a game called 'Pap Smear.' I was way off.

[@omnitheus5442]

You guys need to review Pax Renaissance. You can go back to London oe even the Atlantic looking out towards France from say Dover and film on location and be right in the middle of it ;)

[@sligiseesi5393]

'lets examine a cardigan'?

[@TheShapingSickness]

"And turtle here has an alliegance" lmao thought you were going to call him by its real name XD

[@gidiyaniv82]

So, Is a John company review coming? :)...

[@NoPunIncluded]

Maybe someday? It's not our top priority right now.

[@gidiyaniv82]

@@NoPunIncluded Thanks for replying. had some hope with the :"We'ed be interested in whatever Cole will issue in the future" :) keep being the most unique of them all

[@LeTrèsVilain]

​​@@NoPunIncluded still hoping to see that! Sadly, this gem of à game didn't get à lot of coverage.... It has become one of our favorites in our group.

[@TheJoaninhaMendes]

Find these rules hard? Try the first edition: 1. Great we are in the Military regime..., Russians are dominant. We have more armies than all other factions combined. Next turn I can win the game. 2. Regime gets changed... 3. Now the British is dominant because they have more spies? 4. Regime changes... 5. Now the Afghans are dominant because they have more roads? 6. Regime changes 7. Now nobody is dominant because no coalition has more tribes? 😆😆😆 And that ia not even the hardest Pax... Pax Renaissance is hell to learn... and Pax Emancipation is a beast. 😆😆😆😆😆

[@noeldillabough2153]

You know what that means, I need to betray them!

[@TheCentorus]

10:00 The Red wedding :) I laughed.

[@theeholliday]

Can anyone give examples of other games available that have a cloth mat like this? I'm aware of some neoprene accessories, but actual cloth mats? Perhaps east asian examples?

[@lightbulbsun]

Mandala

[@KristoVaher]

Have you guys tried Engelstein's The Expanse? It's similar in some ways (especially scoring), but without the chaos and convoluted layers of card effects. And I think - better. And yes, a cleaner design. And then there's John Company. By Wehrle, but so deliciously much better.

[@NoPunIncluded]

No, but you're not the first person to tell us it's good. We have always found Mr. Engelstein's designs to be hit or miss so perhaps we should investigate.

[@KristoVaher]

@@NoPunIncluded The Expanse is flying under the radar, but it's a very elegant design and perhaps his best one.

[@npckse8508]

@@NoPunIncluded I like the Expanse and think the expansion adds some needed stuff to the base game.

[@vincerodriguez4070]

I didn’t find the rules hard to absorb at all, and in fact love the complexity. It makes for a richer experience each time you play. One of my favorite games of 2019 for sure.

[@olebrommm]

Turtle name is donatello

[@Ducati11111]

LEBOWSKI REFERENCE!!! +1

[@JackPassmore]

Have you guys been getting writing advice from SU&SD? This video is hilarious, informative and toats entertaining! Cheers! Love You! Way to be! IRL games forever!

[@bgt2701]

Sweet review! Is that a martin 000-15M in the background?

[@dennissein2119]

It sounded like you respect what the game represents but did you enjoy playing it??....that was not clear.

[@Furore2323]

DA PORG ZONE

[@CosmoTristan]

At 13:25 you really remind me of Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof.

[@SethLadd]

Any tips on how to purchase the game? Without paying a fortune for someone's resale copy? Thanks!

[@SethLadd]

Ah. Found it: wehrlegig.com/

[@JosephFlemming]

um wow way too complicated for me haha

[@lukasklees3081]

Wow thanks for heads up. Im an organic chemist and have a BS and PhD in bioorganic chem. I argued with him over facts in his bio games and now I realize hes a nut case. Thank you. Didn't know about those essays and there are a few on BGG.

[@OrderFlowPractice]

I thought this was a KS exclusive? Is this coming to retail?

[@NoPunIncluded]

available through the publisher's website.

[@EliteBeast]

Presentism.

[@TheFilipFonky]

COINsim means COunter INsurgence simulator lads

[@PantheraLeoKing]

I wonder if they said consim or coinsim? No way to find out, oh well.

[@Vytautas-Kubilius]

Dude, are you lithuanian?;) Your pronounciation of Adomas Mickevičius is a little too good ;)

[@NoPunIncluded]

Taip Vytai, esu Lietuvis.

[@Vytautas-Kubilius]

@@NoPunIncluded WoopWoop! Geras video, ačiū!

[@WWFanatic0]

The classic and seemingly paradoxical curve where the more you learn about a topic the less you think you know about it. Every topic is a universe unto itself

[@captaincutler3973]

Afghanistan, what a great country... i lost my brother in law and some flesh from my left leg... great experiance

[@eviola11]

Really happy this game is rid of Phil Eklund stench.

[@TheJoaninhaMendes]

Man, if you find this game chaotic, try the 1st Edition. Each dominant suit has its different victory condition. Oh, you have the most influence with the dominant faction? Well, well... now the dominant suit is not yelow anymore, but red... so the armies count and not the roads... and the Afegans have more armies, not the Russians (who had more roads but less army). What? Excuse me? Let me change the suit to purple, so spies count and no empire is dominant... ahahahaha. Uhm... now it is purple... so, tribes now guys. Now British is the dominat faction because they have more spies.

[@bp9762]

Efka, enough with the false sensitivity and political correctness! You come from Eastern Europe same as me. We don't do that sh*t.

[@blooper1098]

I know it’s not your goal, and I do love both, but you guys have leaped so far ahead of SUSD.

[@lukasklees3081]

Follow up. I looked into Phil Eklund and yeah he worked in Aerospace but not through NASA but through Raytheon. He claims to be a Rocket Scientist and throws it around like...well like someone who isn't a Rocket Scientist. Ill have to wait until I get to my University to see if he has any publications. From his linkin it sounds more like he was just a manager.

[@lukasklees3081]

I found a paper when he was getting his Masters about Quark Catalyzed reaction for cold fusion. However its all hypotheticals. He really doesn't have a presence in the scientific community it seems due to his lack of public documentation. That being said he went into the industry so he wouldn't be publishing but rather getting patents instead. So that's a much harder rabbit whole to look through.

[@lukasklees3081]

My main concern is that he is legitimate but was hit hard by the Lead gen (where lead was present everywhere in the us hence why he would be climate denial because back then it was lead denial from libertarians) and has dementia.

[@sad0happy]

GOTY 2019.

[@szlachcic87]

Srsly - comparing Afghan history to a famous Polish poet?

[@NoPunIncluded]

A famous LITHUANIAN poet.

[@szlachcic87]

Doesn't sound Lithuanian: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3jOimylhct0sNE

[@jareks8945]

Polibyelithuanian:). Reading about the Iwanowski/Ivanauskas/Ivanovski brothers, where at least one became a Lithuanian patriot, at least one a Polish patriot and at least one a Byelorussian patriot (I don't remember the exact distribution) was very refreshing when it comes to whose right is more righteous:)

[@hendrikd2113]

6:45 Would have been a nice example, had th Russians actually 4 more pieces out. They did not. Unsubscribed.

[@airguitarbandit]

Wow, thank you so much for this. Was about to spend like $120 on this game but no other review even mentions the flipping SLAVE TRADE card. Sorry but that’s a deal breaker. Historically accurate is one thing, but that’s no justification for a card like that. Like seriously? I never want to put any of my friends in a position where they have to PLAY THE SLAVE TRADE CARD. Not to mention the pro-colonial history of this game/essay. You kidding me? Anyway, thanks again so much for the great content.

[@soerena88]

oh no, i shall burn my copy of Pax Pamir 2E right away - wasn't aware of this horrible horrible card that, if i play it, definitely will make me a war mongering slave loving piece of shit. Thanks for the heads up. Will go back to playing "Peace Love and Harmony: the game about giving massage and baking organic whole grain bread"

[@airguitarbandit]

@@soerena88 good one. I like how you think it has to be an all or nothing thing.

[@KaaptnIglo]

I think you misunderstood the video as it says the opposite. Pax pamir is absolutely not pro-colonial and takes the perspective of the afghans. That's also why there is a slave trade card because... welll.... in the persian region, there were local slave markets. It's one card out of 120, it's not a very good one, but it has its place in this historical simulation and does not say anything about the game's position on it. I understand that you don't want tthis card though. If it's a sensitive topic in your gaming group, and would ruin a good time, that makes sense. But then, how about remove the card completely from the game? It would not hurt the gameplay AT ALL... Regarding the essay: it was not written by Pamir's designer - it was forced on him by the publisher of the 1st edition. In this second edition, he self-published and got rid of the essay. Really, I understand that you don't want the game, but don't misjudge it. It is smart, respectful and helped westerners like myself to better understand the complexity of Afghanistan's history.

[@airguitarbandit]

@@KaaptnIglo “…doesn’t say anything about the games position on it”, the fact it’s included and gives you any kind of positive gain says something IMO. Even if it’s not the best card, it’s a card.

[@airguitarbandit]

@@KaaptnIglo at the end of the day, to each their own, just not the vibe I want in my game night. There are *plenty* of other options.