Cole Wehrle & History

[@seansteel328]

It's interesting he described Root as Hobbesian as Space Biff has been writing a couple articles about how it's the ultimate expression of Foucault, but Hobbes makes far more sense in the context of root to me. I mean, "nasty, brutish and short" does describe the average life of a character in Root haha

[@HomoLudens1871]

Fully agree that I feel that the game is closer to Hobbes than Foucault, but Dan from Spacebiff has a mind that makes him see things beyond what I am able to.

[@roisinoshea9497]

A lot of French theory (people like Foucault but also Deleuze, Derrida and Lyotard) was imported to the US along with others in postcolonial theory like Edward Said in the 1980s, which explains why not only Thurot (SpaceBiff) but also Wehrle refer to these academics in their work. Root is such a blank/mish-mashed historical space that anything can be projected onto it. A cartoon postmodernism. One minute it's being described as Foucauldian the next as Hobbesian, it gets paralleled with Vietnam one minute and the next is inviting parallels with god knows what. There's a bit of free market imperialism mixed with what I guess is 20th century guerilla warfare, 19th century industrialisation etc. etc. and for this reason everything and nothing fits this game. It would make no sense to Hobbes. There's a tendency in games I'm noticing, especially since Wehle arrived of reckless misuse of academic literature. Could someone who's actually read Hobbes explain how this game is Hobbesian or uses a 'hobbesian framework'? I have, and I see about as much in common with Hobbes as with... pick a name out of a hat. Utter gibberish.

[@jonaskoelker]

@@roisinoshea9497 > explain how this game is Hobbesian? It's uh... nasty, brutish and short? I mean, yeah, "blank/mish-mashed historical space that anything can be projected onto it", you hit the nail on the head here. If you care, here's my Rorschach Root: (1) The birds are fascists. They're a dynasty, which is all about heredity and biology. They are aggressive and they engage in territorial expansionism. They rule by a rigid top-down decree. They have disdain for commerce and materialism, probably because something something The Jews(TM). (2) The Woodland Alliance are obviously Marxist revolutionaries. Raised fist. Revolts. They mostly come out at night. Mostly. (The space bugs in Aliens are clearly derived from the space bugs in Heinlein's Starship Troopers which metaphorically embody communism). (3) The cats are the British Empire on the decline: they are everywhere (initially) and they like nothing better than production and commerce. Sawmills, tea pots, textile factories, they got it all. Possibly even bread, cutlery and shirts. They recruit people from all over the (micro-)cosmos into their armies. As you can tell, my understanding of history declines as a function of distance to the present.

[@Pdhooge]

Fred, I really appreciate that you didn't stick to your script and actually took the time to respond to the things Cole was saying. It's clear that he has media training and knows how to steer interviews, but you both engaged in some interesting topics and it would've been too bad if you've missed the deeper ends of those discussions just to get your own questions out. Even if there was hours more of conversation to be had, it was a great balance of personal, promotional, light and more cutting topics - I enjoyed following the discussion. Question: Would you consider not monitoring chat yourself during your interviews? It always changes the energy when you bump a lot of them on the screen and it feels like you disengage, even if you are clearly still listening and asking questions afterwards. Maybe somebody could moderate that, or you could take some time after the interview for the community?

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thanks Pieter, happy you enjoyed the conversation. Regarding your question it's really fair. I must say that it is extremely hard to at the same time keep track of time, check my upcoming questions, listen to the guest and think about follow-up questions on the flay AND keep an eye on the chat. I usually end up just skimming through the comments and it's frustrating because often the comments are great, but I just can't keep track. So having help moderate would be extremely awesome.

[@Pdhooge]

@@HomoLudens1871 I can image; there is a lot of information trying to get your attention, it seems impossible to digest it all in a matter of seconds. If you have the technology to add a moderator, I'm sure somebody you trust wouldn't mind helping you out? And otherwise I'd gladly offer help myself!

[@EnricoAmbrosi]

This was amazing, the whole channel is amazing.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thanks Enrico, really appreciate it!

[@thomaswoods7522]

This is the first video I've seen on your channel, and this is definitely the best interview of Cole I have seen (and there are a lot of them). You are asking questions that are specifically designed for Cole, you went deep inside some subjects whereas other interview tends to have the same generic questions for every board game designer. Thank you for this great video.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thanks Thomas, really appreciate it. I was really happy to have the opportunity to chat with Cole, but had so many questions coming up in my mind, it was hard to keep everything structured.

[@MeanderingMikesManCave]

Fantastically intellectually stimulating interview. Superb!

[@HomoLudens1871]

Many thanks! I should be back soon, I hope you'll like upcoming interviews.

[@mati11223]

In game desing practice there comes time of hardship and true grind. Cole always inspires me to make the thing I am currently making the best version I can and to rethink my stance on the subject (whatever it may be). Thanks a lot for this Fred & Cole and keep it up.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Well said!

[@crookedevolution]

I absolutely loved this video, and am coming to love your channel overall! 😊

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thank you so much 🤗

[@jonathanklabunde6639]

Absolutely brilliant interview and not even halfway. Glad I discovered your channel. Early on, this reminds me of a desire to make a cdg war game where players are journalist outfits collaborating or competing to cover an on-going world/conflict in both accurate and propagandized ways.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thanks Jonathan, glad to hear that you're enjoying the interview. If you liked this, i think there are a few other videos on the channel you might enjoy.

[@northabbot7116]

Fun to see how accurate Leder was with Arcs fulfillment at this point

[@Betterthanskooma]

Thank you for this interview! Just found this channel and can’t wait to watch more. Love cole’s take on game design. Root is incredible.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@przemekbozek]

An excellent interview, thank you for doing this.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@el_dani]

very excellent and rewarding interview! I‘m just afraid, that I have to buy every game of Cole one day.. actually I‘m thinking about buying John Company although my group doesn‘t like negotiation neither dice..

[@HomoLudens1871]

Go for it!

[@tfpp1]

I know I'm a year late, but I remember playing with Cole at Great Hall Games in Austin. I was at UT doing my own grad work as a musician. I'm sure Cole probably doesn't remember me, but we played a handful of times (I believe), and he was just one of the nicest gamers that I vividly, distinctly remember during my time there. So happy to be able to say that "I knew him when"... LOL

[@HomoLudens1871]

He is indeed extremely kind offline too, so I am not surprised.

[@tfpp1]

@@HomoLudens1871 Yes indeed. I'm very happy to see all of his success. Also, I have Red Flag Over Paris, and I'm going through it slowly now that I have time this summer. Thank you for a wonderful game . . . and interview.

[@kristijan1985]

I think there is a good chance that the next game published by Wehrlegig games will be Tyranny Of Blood ;) he mentioned that the next game is not his design (he is just helping) and Fred later asked him if he will pick up a Zenobia finalist design and publish it, the answer was 'we will see' or something similar :) if that happens I think it will be a really good thing. I heard Cole talking about his fascination with that design a couple of months ago and I imidietely thought about that there is chance he will pick it up. (Earlier he also mentioned that he'd like to do that-to pick up historical games that are somehow related to his designs) Cheers

[@HomoLudens1871]

I have no exclusive info, but if I had to bet, I would probably put some money on that title too.

[@kristijan1985]

@@HomoLudens1871 great interview, thanks!

[@smspk4]

i loved this interview

[@HomoLudens1871]

To be fair, me too.

[@draekko74]

this is brilliant

[@HomoLudens1871]

Thanks!

[@dannyf1168]

Interesting he says - no 2 player for Arcs? I could swear it says different in the game I bought.

[@HomoLudens1871]

Designers always lie.

[@VictorKolbe]

such a good talk!!

[@HomoLudens1871]

Glad you enjoyed the discussion.

[@sebastienscherr3280]

Homo Ludens était le nom du club de jeux que j'avais créé dans mon école à Reims en 1992 ! Inspiré par l'excellent essai de Huizinga

[@HomoLudens1871]

Oui, Huizinga et le premier auteur qui m'a fait penser aux jeux "sérieusement".

[@lenakimarctaedius3056]

If boardgames is art, Do you medan it as performance art, or is it the object itself or is it conceptual art. Or Do you mean it is it’s own kind of art.

[@pacificateur1976]

the Russian publishing house acted shamefully (crowd games). unfortunately, there is reason to believe that if John Company is localized, then it will be the same, and not a more honest publisher, cooperating with GMT and similar publishers (GaGa Games). Interestingly! in the recently localized edition that arrived at the end of December 2022 of the second edition in Russian of "Pax Renaissance", there are no such notes: "Please note that the historical reference and the images used on the cards are the author's vision of the events of the Great Game" I just took out the box specifically to see what will happen at the end of the rules. I didn't even know about this translation if I hadn't seen your video. By the way, hello from a russian marxist! sorry for my translate google. and thanks for the interesting interview... that's what I was looking for after reading Cole's great essay about imperialism in games. unfortunately, the vast majority of boardgamers in Russia (and I think in Europe and America) are not interested in topics related to society and politics. relatively recently in Russia, localizations of such games about society, history as No Retreat, Twilight Imperium, Pax Pamir, Pax Renaissance, Reds!, Watergate and maybe something else. waiting for the Imperial struggle, Cuba Libre and Red Flag over Paris of course :)

[@HomoLudens1871]

Happy to see that Russian marxists are watching the channel! Thanks for the comment and context, I'm really curious about the Russian wargaming scene. And yes, I recently learned that RFOP will be translated in Russian, really curious to see what will be the reception there.

[@republikadugave420]

This guy is a true savant...thx for the great games

[@HomoLudens1871]

He is probably the best designer of our generation.

[@republikadugave420]

Him and Knizia are my favs

[@joefogliajr.7521]

I just watch this and I feel like a very stupid person :c

[@HomoLudens1871]

Welcome to my world :'(

[@Xloi63]

Has Cole ever stated if he is a Marxist? ❤

[@HomoLudens1871]

Not to my knowledge, but I expect he'll be back on the show soon enough, so maybe you could ask him then.

[@roisinoshea9497]

I'm a little suspicious of how Wehrle talks about Pax Pamir. I don't think he credits the Eklunds enough. It is essentially an Eklund game which he has pared back and rethemed.

[@el_dani]

I think he credits Phil a lot with his praise for Porfiriana and the discussion about the distinction between author and work. He also mentions how Phil was central in the development of Pamir 1st- on the other hand Cole took it to another level with 2nd edition with the production and accessibility

[@HomoLudens1871]

I agree with Bibi, based on the discussion in the stream and the ones I had with him out of it, you can't say that Cole doesn't give credit to Phil.