Payback Time for Tesla PowerWall2 and 5kW Solar Array

[@LudicrousFeed]

2020 Update Payback Time Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppKbYnSuh7GUpaM Thanks for watching! You can use my referral code to get 1,500 km / 1000 miles of free Supercharging on a new Tesla: ts.la/thomas7208 #roadsterdownunder TT

[@daytondario6216]

You prolly dont care but if you guys are stoned like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all the latest series on InstaFlixxer. Been binge watching with my girlfriend these days :)

[@SS-yw7vo]

"During the night there's not much Sun". The understatement of the year! Thanks for the video. Love your channel

[@LudicrousFeed]

🙏🙂

[@WarrenWilliams3112]

You're videos are so good Tom. So clear, factual, informative, not emotional or sensationalist. The world needs more Tesla Toms!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks so much!

[@danstrayer111]

Well thought-out video, and thanks for no stupid music. I have a hard time understanding how all this can be with the usages and costs. Make no mistake, I am off grid for 25 years. 1600 sq ft house, at 49 degrees N latitude. Here is what I operate in my house: water pump, tv occasionally, computers, stereo, bean grinder, power tools up to a small table saw, blender, ethernet, router, a bunch of LED lighting, and so on. No air conditioner needed here on the Canadian border. Here is what I run it on: 6 golf cart batteries, powered by 450 watts of solar panels, rigid mount. I have gas for stove, refrigerator, and hot water. My propane tank takes 100 US gallons to fill, and lasts exactly one year. This would cost about $125 dollars in Australia. The really big users, in terms of watts if they were electric would be, of course, hot water, stove, and refrigerator. So, my point is that why would one spend 18,000 dollars to do all this when a mixture of energy sources could knock that down to a price 1/8 of that number? I am currently installing and sourcing small PV systems. The last 3 I did were: 570 for (2) 240 watt panels, 350 USD for inverter and charge controller, 900 USD for batteries, another 280 for hardware, wire, breaker panel. That is 2100 USD for the entire thing , before labor. If you have a family, sure, it's gonna be bigger....but there is no need to pay so much simply for the purpose of avoiding all fossil fuel. This approach is more like what the energy future will hold: a mixture of fuels and sources combined with newer tech like LEDs and MPPT controllers and lithium batteries.

[@erikcable1755]

For the folks who need A/C during the heat of the day you could use a mini split A/C and 12 300watt solar panels and Enphase Inverters at each panel will give you 1-20amp circuit...

[@Pour-me-a-red]

Thanks, really helpful video. One of the additional reasons I've just bought a system with the PowerWall 2 (being installed right now) is, because I'm in a bush area it means I can still run firefighting pumps in case the grid goes down during a bush-fire. As well as the economic cost there is the peace of mind.

[@raven325i]

I live in Northern NSW and had a Powerwall installed recently for 2 main reasons one for equipment protection,, ensuring that we have electricity during our frequent blackouts (5 since 3rd Oct) and secondly, to supplement our (high energy) non solar energy requirements. So far I have been very impressed, for example, in the last 2 days which were great sunny days we were essentially off grid. Yesterday the house used 29.9 kWh, 34.5 kWh from solar array, 10.7 from Powerwall, 11.2kwh to the Powerwall and 4.3 kWh to the grid. If anyone is wondering that’s 12 midnight to 12 midnight period. Even with non optimal days the battery will get us past the peak evening period into the off peak period, which is 10pm on our time of use plan. I also like to the ability to dictate the amount power for the power reserve function (for blackouts) on the Powerwall which is set at 20% for typical days but when I know we are in for a storm I change the reserve capacity via the app to 70% for a potentially longer period of the grid being down. When bad weather passes I simply drop it back down 20%.

[@TrebleSketch]

OMG! Just came across this video through a suggestion and it's awesome to find an Australian sustainable energy KZbinr! :D Keep up the good work and videos!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Glad you're enjoying the videos. Thanks for watching :)

[@philrabe910]

I wonder why there isn't more emphasis on solar hot water? There's a nice chunk of home energy use you could pull out of the equation and pay the total off sooner.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Phil Rabe Thanks for the idea, I’ll do a video comparing the different types of hot water :)

[@GeeCeeAte]

I use Solar Evacuated tubes to heat a 4000 gallon cistern. Covers 100% of my hot water use year round. about 1000$ for an evacuated tube array, and 1000$ to build the insulated cistern. Plus this heats my whole house in the winter via radiant heat through concrete floors and walls. So free heat all winter and unlimited hot water for 2000$

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the insight. I shall include this option in my future hot water comparison video coming up.

[@peterryan7340]

Hot water system comparisons would be great!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Peter Ryan working on it!

[@timorum]

Good work, I encourage everybody to look into solar evacuated tubes to heat hot water. My cylinder has only been on for about 7 days in the last year. My system cost me $4200, is two years old and saves me about $105 per month - just over three year payback - Absolute no brainier.

[@brendon2553]

Really good video. Thanks a lot. I have a hard time explaining payback times so now I can recommend your video

[@grendelum]

Excellent video... I am stupidly excited as I’m building a new house where my 100+ year old house currently stands (you don’t want to know how inefficient it is) and among the _many_ whizbang renewable techs will be a 9kW SolarRoof and two PowerWalls. *Hurricane Irma* left us without power for 11 days in the sweltering SW Florida summer which is something I never want to experience again !!

[@LudicrousFeed]

orion khan That all sounds very exciting! The PW2 has a backup which clicks into gear within milliseconds when there is a grid failure. It truly is remarkable, I was very impressed when I first tested it on mine. Hopefully it’ll help give you some peace of mind if anything else like Irma happens again (praying it doesn’t). Thanks for watching!

[@grendelum]

Ludicrous Feed - unfortunately the statistics are against us here on the Gulf of Mexico when it comes to hurricanes which is why Florida has the strictest building codes in the US these days. One of the more interesting techs of the new house is a local company that takes your plans, chops them up and builds the structure of your house in their factory using a sandwich of concrete board with an 8” closed-cell foam filling. Coupled with factory made windows, once the foundation is set it only takes a week to make the house “air tight” as the construction term goes so the interior (and exterior finishing) work can begin... a 3000sqft, 1.5 story house gets delivered as 75 sections !! I was able to design my house (complete with the roof angle matching my latitude for the solar PV system), have an architect make sure it wouldn’t fall down, pass the plans off and begin the myriad decisions of materials, appliances and other renewable tech with far less worry than conventional construction. It’s a shame to tear down a 100 year old home but it is too large, uses space poorly and (zomg) wastes so much energy (even with new and efficient AC chillers (the outside bits) it’s embarrassing)... it would run into the millions to renovate and take far longer than the current plan. One of the key factors for this build was Tesla calling me to let me know the SolarRoof I wanted would be available as I’m in a “historic” neighborhood and it saves me a _massive_ headache in getting traditional panels “approved”. I’m *_really_* looking forward to that PowerWall backup as I can’t stress enough how utterly *_miserable_* trying to sleep when it’s 88° with an 82° dew point without even a fan was and to make it worse, having all the windows open let the cacophony of generators echo throughout the house !!

[@razor2992]

what about solar panel and battery deterioration that you have not factored in.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for your comment, Razor. Excellent point, both need to be factored in. Most decent Solar panels have a 25 year warranty. Battery deterioration is a real issue, I agree with you. Make sure you check out my video on the state of play with regards to the life expectancy of Tesla batteries: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI Thanks for watching! :)

[@johnorgaz9159]

hi I'm getting a 5kw solar system I have a 1.5 now it's 10 years old my feed to the grid is 60c per kW will I be in front my plan is with origin 10 years ogo

[@LudicrousFeed]

john ortega On first impression, I would say yes, your payback will be so quick it won’t be funny. But would have to do the math to give you a closer estimate. TT

[@johnorgaz9159]

​@@LudicrousFeed thank,s John

[@vk2aafhamradio]

Hi Tom, thanks for the video. Our Powerwall2 experience has been broadly similar to yours. We added 6kW of LG 300W panels at $312/ea installed ($6240) to an existing 1.5kW array from 2011 still making 97% of rated power, giving us 7.5kWp. A Fronius Primo 8.2kW inverter with a Fronius 'Smart Meter' to limit export to 5kW to suit Endeavour's single phase limit was about $3300. Pw2 installed with Gateway was $10,500. The entire package came in at about $20,400. The huge rise in domestic tariff rates, 25% in one hit last year, pushing the domestic tariff to 30-31c/kWh was our tipping point for solar & battery installation. I was looking for power plans to suit our consumption and the lowest were coming in at $4000-4400/year. 100% return on investment for our usage levels comes in right on 5 years. In no place in the world where electricity systems have been privatised have rates ever fallen, so we do anticipate rates to rise and that RoI period to shorten accordingly. As you note, usage patterns are different for every installation. We are retired, so we're at home all day every day for the most part. This means we heat/cool in the daytime as required and also run whitegoods during solar production hours. This preserves the Pw2 capacity for overnight heating/cooling, fridge & freezer, cooking, computers, etc. We can easily consume 30kWh on days when we heat & cool. We do bake all our own bread and occasionally process garden produce such as roasting tomatoes for home canning red sauce, when we have seen as much as 57kWh in a day running ovens & aircon. This task typically falls in late January, so we were able to do that without any grid power by generating 50kWh from the PV & using about 50% of the Pw2's capacity. While I expect the Pw2 to exceed the warranty performance rating of 70% at 10 years, for the amount of storage, convenience, integration and ease of use, I feel that Pw2 represented very good value. It was certainly the best value available when we made the call in AUgust 2017. Given lithium is one of the most common elements in earth's crust and can be recovered and recycled at end of life, this is a sustainable battery technology. At this time of year, we're down to about 24kWh/day due to day length and solar incidence angle. When we get a cold, cloudy day, we end up dipping into the grid to keep the heat running overnight, even though it is a very efficient, recent model Daikin split system. We have a Siddons heat pump water heater, which as you say, draws about 3kWh/day. I can swtich it back & forth between off-peak and domestic circuits to take best advantage of what is the best value power available at the time. Could not be happier with the Pw2. If I had to do it over again, I would have opted for 1.5kW more PV for a total of 9kWp. We still have headroom to do this with the Primo as we would only be 0.8kW over the max input rating and are unlikely ever to see a full 9kW from 9kWp of panels. Keep up the good work! :) -Brian

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hi Brian, thanks for sharing that with us! Looks like you've got sustainable living all sorted! It's certainly a very impressive set up you have there. I see you have the good fortune of being home to take full advantage of your solar panels. Excellent point regarding rising electricity tariffs - hard to see them coming down any time soon. Great to see people like yourself pioneering the way for this model of electricity generation and thank you for the encouragement too!

[@nathannissan]

Very very easy to follow, well done. I try to explain it to others like that but it still manages to baffle them somehow.

[@LudicrousFeed]

nathannissan Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@Robert-rv2fq]

Tom, good comprehensive coverage. It’s interesting to see how your presentation style has changed over time👍

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks Robert, I’ve been experimenting with different presentation methods but I guess the mission remains the same 😊

[@northernouthouse]

Very good video. Your savings is based on electricity costs avoided but the savings are amplified when using solar panels to avoid gasoline costs. We use our solar panels to offset the cost of charging an ev. Anything left over is used to offset household appliances. The gasoline savings alone for comparable ice vehicle reduces the payback to 3 to 4 years. Going Green will save you green in your wallet!

[@LudicrousFeed]

northernouthouse Thanks for the positive feedback and for sharing your situation. Check out my other vid on how much I’ve saved by using electricity instead of gasoline for my Tesla Model S: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2LblmCorMh6edk

[@northernouthouse]

Ludicrous Feed yeah we don't have the equivalent of your $1/day charging plan here. That's a fairly unique arrangement that I haven't come across in my research. We prefer to charge at home for convenience and to maintain battery performance since using the supercharger too often can have negative impact on performance. I believe for the majority of people using solar panels and battery to power an ev will be a practical solution. And what is an ev but just another appliance to make our lives easier? The beauty of electricity is its versatility. you can use it to heat or cool your home, cook your food, grow your food (hydroponics) or to take you somewhere. The same can't be said about gasoline. Keep up the good work!

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

You missed making the point that if you don't buy any solar or battery.... Then you spend 18k in that 9 years and it went to nowhere but the power company and you still keep paying after that. Two choices you do nothing and just pay your bills or you do something and in 10 years you eliminated an enormous portion of your power bills after that as well.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Well said. Thanks for your comment :)

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Please link to the company where we can install a labor passive grill business on our roof; asking for a friend.

[@karl7235]

Olav Viking after 9 years no power bill and now your house is worth more because of it. You’re a dumb little piggy.

[@wakawaka12320]

@@karl7235 these calculations are so wrong it's not funny(he hasn't accounted for the $1.20-$1.50 per day mandatory supply charge for been connected to the grid! His daily offset is more like 4 bucks not 5.40 then of course you have battery and panel degradation)payback is more like 12-13 years, then no battery warranty after 10years....and honestly how many people can be sure they are going to be in the one house for more than 13years???

[@ParkerUAS]

@@wakawaka12320 , ok, so you sell the house and therefore the solar system and battery that are installed. Here in Arizona, that solar system as Kong as it is in good condition adds about 60% of its purchase value (on average) to your home. So a $30,000 system adds $18,000 of equity. All you need to break even on your expenditure is for it to have made you back $12,000, not the full $30,000. Once you've crossed over that point you can sell the home and have a technical "profit" off of the system as far as it increasing your equity/value.

[@TheJesp01]

How do you consume only 5kwh per day? My house consume 40-50kwh per day

[@plonkster]

In South Africa our higher interest rates also have to be taken into account in the form of opportunity cost. In other words you have to work out the money you lose because you tied up that capital in a solar system instead of putting it in a good investment. That means most battery systems essentially never breaks even, especially not the powerwall which is pretty expensive.

[@LudicrousFeed]

plonkster Thanks for your comment. Agreed, opportunity cost and interest on loans need to be taken into account when deciding if a battery is appropriate/viable for your situation. Thanks for watching!

[@petersparks7363]

to be fair the money you would otherwise have to invest would have to be offset because the powerwall/solar customer doesnt have the annual Gas/Oil bill (Your $18500 will go on bills). For good purpose this is an equivalent cost. I'm just wondering is the $375 per panel inc instaling costs.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Peter Sparks Yes, it includes installation.

[@petersparks7363]

That makes the 18.5k install price even better. 28,000 capital with a 7% yield = $1960. Not sure on SA interest rates, but this seems good value.

[@johnpuccetti9383]

I am helping with a design on a new home in Ventura CA I am going to recommend against the two gas demand water heaters in favor of a 65 gallon 240 volt AC and a 3.5 K solar array.

[@stevespawn1]

You may check this out kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIiXeqR7mtKnm7s

[@bjcliving386]

dude i really enjoyed this!!! I would love to see more stat calc vids like this. I have been trying to find, in Australia, a yearly running cost calculation for a tesla. I can't seem to find anything. Inc rego, ins, petrol saving real world, servicing etc.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! Keep watching my vids and you’ll get an idea of what it’s like owning a Tesla in Australia 🙏🙂

[@teecee3428]

I'd multiply the time by 1.2 or 1.3 for all of the unknown or unexpected losses. Like how do you account for cloudy days? Or efficiency loss of the battery or panels?

[@thedon2743]

Brilliant Your A Genius, I would watch your videos all day long, keep up the good work👌

[@marklonguet-higgins6041]

see also kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIm6aYCAZtGJfpY ... it gets even better!

[@macmcleod1188]

Couple comments. 1) Power companies have a base charge and I think this tendency will increase. You may not *need* to have a power plant 345 days a year, but as long as you need it for 20 days a year, you will have to pay your share of the cost of that power plant. You may also lose the ability to be paid for electricity fed back into the grid once too many people are doing it. 2) I've heard inverters last about 7-8 years. If so that would change your payback period. 3) There is a time cost to your money. $18,500 invested at 2.7% in some tax free muni's would pay $500 per year. or $4,500 over the course of 9 years. ON THE OTHER HAND..... :-) 4) Power may become much more expensive in the future. If so, your payback period will be much shorter. 5) You won't lose power in power outages and your power will be more stable. So your electronics devices will last longer. 6) If there are long term power outages ( hurricane, tornado, earthquake, etc.) then you may suffer a lot less misery. For example, you might not be able to run A/C except during the hottest part of the day but you can probably run fans, a refrigerator, a computer, a router, and a television 24x7. 7) As solar drops in price and batteries drop in price, you might have some fairly easy upgrade options without substantial extra cost. Loved your video. Well done.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks Mac! This is one of the best comments I've had on this video - very balanced and well thought out. Nice to have some objective views on home batteries. Thanks for watching! :)

[@Chainyanker007]

In a PW2 the inverter is in the unit, with a 10 year warranty I assume Tesla will cover an inverter failure, assuming Tesla is still around in 10 years. I don’t know if an additional inverter is needed for the house, I still don’t understand how all the components work together, need to watch a few more solar system videos. Also if you have an EV the economics really change. Also in most places, including the US, if you are connected to the grid and there is a power failure your solar system shuts down to prevent power from flowing back to the grid for power worker safety reasons so no power to your house either even with a battery storage unit, as far as I know.

[@klaeLIFE]

@@Chainyanker007 This is indeed true in the UK and Tesla themselves state that the PowerWall 2 is not an off grid system

[@klaeLIFE]

1) The standing charge in the UK is what you pay daily to have power service. When calculating per unit price that you actually use this should be taken into account as the less you use the more each unit effectively costs you because the standing charge is now distributed over less units. My panels have dropped my usage by 40% which mean I need to find tariffs with lower standing charges. 2) My solar edge inverter carries a 15 year warranty period 3) That interest rate is massively high, even for a year ago, in the UK anyway - but still, $4500 over 9 years is a lot less than $18,500 payback... 4) This is indeed true - but fixed deals can bring this down so the impact isn't so great so switching providers may work 5) Tesla powerwall is not an off grid solution as it must prevent flow back to the grid to protect works on the grid when it goes down. This would only work if you were not connected to the grid at all. 6) see above 7) This is also true but extends the pay back period What is not assumed is the efficiency drop in not only the panels over the 9.4 years but also the battery capacity. I would assume at after 10 years you would lose at least 10% on each. I would expect that the whole system will be doing well if it was still working after 20 years.

[@aussievmax]

Khurram Chaudhry PW2’s and LGChem batteries can disconnect you from the grid in a black out, I think its new for the PW2, PW2 can backup the whole house if it’s single phase or 1 phase on a 3 phase house. I have a LG Chem battery, with the LG you can only backup 1 circuit not the whole house, the circuit my fridge is on is backed up, earlier in the year we had a big storm and lost power for around 7 hours, my friend down the road lost it for 18 hours, my fridge ran the whole time we were out. Check out my Channel to see my Reposit System and details of my solar. I’m also in Sydney.

[@jaimewanda]

What is the projected life span of the power wall after the payoff period?

[@marklonguet-higgins6041]

jaimewanda: Tesla garantees for 10 years. i.e. longer tha ROI time. Battery Lifetime is longer. The price of batteries has fallen 60% in 3 years, and will continue to fall. Replacement in 15 years will be very cheap.

[@ThePower2ChooseDC]

Great Formula and presentation. Note: the RIO timeline question relative to (Renting Kwh Grid power some future × cost) and doesn't take into account the value of owning Energy Security. As far as I'm concerned the pay back comes the first time the grid goes down. Thanks

[@LudicrousFeed]

Rocky Buldo Thanks for sharing. Good point, what is the price of peace of mind knowing you have backup in times of grid failure!

[@petervany4342]

Excellent video. Great to see someone explain the numbers

[@LudicrousFeed]

Peter van Yzendoorn Thank you :)

[@ashanmendis8091]

Can you do this again with todays prices

[@LudicrousFeed]

I usually do a yearly update

[@TheEtbetween]

Thanks really appreciate it. You don’t get rebates? Like in America

[@LudicrousFeed]

TheEtbetween Those prices I quoted were with rebates included. Mind you, this video is over a year old now. Prices have changed since. TT

[@lane2m]

Good effort, I did not run the exact calculation but it makes sense how you approach it. I think an element that is missed there is that when you store electricity in a battery you would have a loss due to the efficiency of the battery, maybe around 10%. I think it makes much more sense from a sustainability prospective to have solar panels only and try to move consumption during production of solar which I understand is not only possible. As well I would be very careful to use the word sustainable. If every house had a system with a battery is a massive consumption or resources and creation of CO2 during production and decommissioning . Power plants in a bigger scale have much more efficiency and could be more effective in reducing emissions. I mean harvesting solar and store it seems a good idea but as well it comes with a price in terms of emissions and use of resources.

[@LudicrousFeed]

8 years later my setup is still going strong 💪

[@bombsaway6340]

Did the same calculations for my home in Texas. One big difference is I pay 9 cents per kilowatt hour. Takes nearly 20 years to hit break even for a power wall. Given the power wall life expectancy of about ten years, never really get ahead. I’m going forward with the solar array, but will wait for a better power storage solution.

[@That1ufo]

You lost me on the hot water, you pay 30c but then you say its 19c = 57c instead off 90c, is water heating charged on a separate meter at a different rate in AUS?

[@LudicrousFeed]

That1ufo Thanks for the comment. Yes, we pay ‘Controlled load’ tariff for hot water - it is at a lower rate but can only be used at certain times of the day. Thanks for watching :)

[@kevintunaley5079]

would adding more panels help speed up the payback? buying a home soon in the desert in AZ so am really thinking about doing the pw2 and solar roof if I can have it added to my mortgage. or even adding 1 or two smaller wind turbines

[@LudicrousFeed]

Kevin Tunaley Thanks for the comment Kevin. I too am waiting for the solar roof ...! Thanks for watching 😊

[@samktlau]

Thank you so much. To me, your presentation is educative. It gave me a good understanding in the cost & benefit of a solar panel + PW2 installation. Once again, thank you.

[@LudicrousFeed]

My pleasure, I’m glad you enjoyed it. 😊

[@ashanmendis1930]

You didnt add the inverter cost and instilation

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the comment! The prices quoted included installation. Add another A$1-2000 for inverter costs depending on what brand you purchase. Thanks for watching!

[@ashanmendis1930]

@@LudicrousFeed are there and tax rebates in victoria

[@LudicrousFeed]

Ashan Mendis Nationwide across Australia, solar panels and some hot water systems (solar hot water and heat pumps for example) qualify for rebates via STC (small-scale technology certificates) - usually a supplier will quote you the price of installation with the STC already built into the price. Check out my video where I explain this in further detail: ‪kzbin.info/www/bejne/faKQaqiJqqh2a80

[@ljprep6250]

I live in Oregon, USA and my highest of all time (17 years here) use was 20kWh/day on an extremely hot August with temps of 110F forcing air conditioning all day. Average annual usage is 10kWh/day, with Spring and Fall seeing 6kWh/day. That's with an electric water heater. // I'm adding solar because the grid is getting flakier and I want backup when it goes down.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for sharing that LJ Prep :)

[@tarrikmorssi849]

Hi mate is there an option for you to use a power reposition company like reposit power in your area to sell power to the grid for a better rate and maybe shorten your payback period?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Tarrik Morssi Thanks for your comment. I haven’t looked into Reposit power. I have stuck with my company, AGL because they offer $1/day to charge my Tesla (for as much as I need) which makes it economical for me. Thanks for watching :)

[@ericdressler7334]

Great work Tom

[@LudicrousFeed]

🙏🙂

[@koreanfriedchildren]

I wonder if there are any other battery solutions to be able to store more charge rather than be limited to only 13.5kwh of the pw2.. would be cool to be able to use several batteries in conjunction with pw2

[@jeffharmed1616]

Thanks for sharing. The average householders have 2 cars. If one car is for work and the other for shopping in the evening etc, then you might not have to buy a PowerWall because, with careful planning, you could theoretically power the house from the car batteries.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hi Jeff, thanks for your comment. You raise an interesting concept ... Let's say you've got 2x EVs with 100kWh battery each. If you have a large enough solar array, you could potentially charge at one of the car's maximum charge rate of 16.5kW each day. If a household uses on average 20kWh each day, then it would take ~75mins of solar power to charge that 20kWh into your car, assuming you have an inverter that can handle that load. Then ... if you can find some way to use your car's battery to power the house, then I suppose theoretically it could be done this way. Cost wise ... wow, ok so a 16.5kW array would be maybe $20k (AU) + each EV with 100kWh is $140k (AU) minimum using Tesla Model X pricing. So that's a $300k outlay!

[@jeffharmed1616]

The reason I raise this point is that EV's have a range approaching 300 miles and most commuters only cover a fraction of that in one day. So there is surplus battery capacity that could be used in the house at the end of the day. I estimated that if every roof (domestic and business) in the USA was covered with PVs, the energy would be sufficient for all USA current electricity consumption. However, the Northern States have a summer/winter solar energy ratio of 3, compared to 2 for the Southern States. This will affect the approach to solar energy and the way that energy is stored and shared. Home computing power management will be needed not only for optimising daily needs, but also seasonal needs. I can see jobs advertised for their fast-charging and parking benefits.

[@maestro_oz]

This is a great video and it makes the complex nice and simple. You need to also factor in the benefit to environment, health, change in energy use due to new awareness of your consumption. This is a "pay it forward" not just a "pay back" :-)

[@TechnoMonkeyFarm]

My supply charge is $.95 per day. Would be interesting to know what size requirements I'd need to go completely off grid and if doing so would reduce my payback time.

[@LudicrousFeed]

anyusernamesleftest I didn’t factor in the supply charge as it’s a constant if you subscribe to an energy company regardless of your solar/battery status. Thanks for watching!

[@tymak_cz]

What about effectivity of these devices? I mean if you put 13,5 kWh into battery, you wont get all 13,5 kWh back. Is these small loses part of calculation?

[@ashanmendis8091]

Can you do this with a BYDhome battery

[@joshecho9]

Don't you have to replace the battery every 9 to 10 years?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the comment Josh. Therein lies the rub - many people are holding off buying a battery given the fear spreading that these batteries will suddenly stop working at the 9-10 year mark. I guess we shouldn't mistake warranty with life expectancy. Many products have a much shorter warranty than their actual lifespan. Check out my video where I discuss the expected life of Tesla's batteries: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI Thanks for watching! :)

[@joshecho9]

Thanks for the reply and thanks for making a great review.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Josh M Thanks for supporting the channel!

[@vegito_ssj_blue917]

Can u Make a video about maintenance cost in power wall!!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Anup menon It comes with a 10 year warranty but yeah, I can put together a video about expected its lifespan. Thanks for watching :)

[@LudicrousFeed]

Alright, thanks to your suggestion, I've made a new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@vegito_ssj_blue917]

Ludicrous Feed thanks...!!

[@stevelaminack1516]

Do you have net metering in AU?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Steve Laminack Sure do!

[@OwenLewis67]

Ludicrous Feed can we clarify what net metering is please? i thought is meant you only pay for the electricity you use from the grid. so feed in tariff and usage tariff are the same. only NT has this?

[@bsr8129]

you said panels are 375 each, but what about installation that costs goes up significantly, I just had solar installed and it comes out to about $1,000 per panel when you include installation.

[@LudicrousFeed]

bsr8129 Thanks for the comment. That price of $375 includes installation. $1000 seems high, where are you watching from?

[@bsr8129]

wow thats insanely great deal you get there, I am in the USA, California. 1000 per panel with installation is typical here, its approx $3 and change per watt.

[@LudicrousFeed]

That's quite expensive, even accounting for the high CA sales tax! It's interesting, judging from the comments, there is such a wide range of how much solar panels cost around the world. Thanks for watching!

[@ncc714]

Government rebates help in Australia. I was quoted this week $4200.00 for 23 x 280w panels which includes a quality inverter (can be $1000.00 less with cheap inverter).

[@LudicrousFeed]

Now THAT is a good deal, thanks for sharing. Where are you watching from?

[@wolftribe66]

batteries degrade over time. does that affect this calculation at all?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Check out my new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@dtec30]

how often does the inverter need to be replaced as i have micro inverters and they will need to be replaced every 3 years

[@LudicrousFeed]

dtec30 Thanks for your question. I’ve had my system for 6 years and it’s still going strong. From what I’ve read, inverters may require replacement after 10 years. Thanks for watching! :)

[@janmortensen9314]

I was also told to expect inverter replacement after 10 years; getting close to 6 years and so far no maintenance cost endured.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Jan Mortensen That’s awesome, great to hear!

[@jordanallison7105]

Thank you for making this video. I would like to get solar + a battery on a future house, but did not know how much it would actually cost to be worth it. Ended up longer than I thought it would be originally. I live in another country, but I imagine it could be rounded to 1-2 years around your estimate. This video was very informative.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Jordan Allison It was my absolute pleasure. Glad you found it useful, thanks for watching :)

[@matthewbrookes9539]

What about D.C. to ac Inverter price? Is that included in price for solar panels?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Matthew Brookes I didn’t include the price of an inverter given the pricing variability depending on which brand you choose.

[@matthewbrookes9539]

Ludicrous Feed okay fair point keep up the good work

[@NewTechChannel]

I have a PV sistem for 1 year now. I only got batteries because I need to have backup. Otherwise batteries are not worth investing in. By the time you recover the invested money in them they are worthless. (1kwh is here about 0.15$) As far as I know powerwall does not work offgrid. and does not offer any backup functionality. If the grid fail. you are out of luck. There are some things you can do to make it work offgrid in backup mode.. but I am sure the sistem is not ready yet. Or is it?

[@LudicrousFeed]

NewTech Thanks for your comment. The PowerWall 2 has a great backup function and certainly works under grid failure conditions. The changeover to backup is virtually instantaneous (within milliseconds) and a major reason why many people install the PowerWall 2. For areas where electricity is expensive like here in NSW where it is $0.30/kWh and rising then the payback time is less. Thanks for watching!

[@hechyesspee]

The operating limitation is about 37.8 MWh, If I buy 37800 KWh from a retailer at about 25cents/KWh, it comes to around $9500 which is less than the cost of powerwall2 installation. Is it worth the buy?

[@georgeslater]

Hi so if we look at a rate of return its paying about 6.64% tax free after taking out a straight line depreciation of $740 per year for 25 years ((1970-740/18500) x 100). That's pretty good.

[@hanspetterfasteng3726]

Thank you for a very informing video, but how long will the powerwalls battery last until it gives out and need to be replaced?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for your comment. I guess that is the great unknown about home batteries. Check out my video where I try to address this common concern: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI

[@marklonguet-higgins6041]

Tesla garentees the Powerwalls ( see my system kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIm6aYCAZtGJfpY ) for 10 years. Battery Lifetime is longer -> 15 - 20 years. Battery prices are falling rapidly. >60% in last 3 years.

[@will_doherty]

A couple of points came to mind whilst watching your video - firstly why do you use a different rate for the power used to heat the hot water - is it due to a economy rate at night? If that is the case, would you not reconfigure the hot water heater to run in the middle of the day, so using energy directly from the solar array, leaving the powerwall to be fully topped off by solar, thus using less energy from the grid? This would reduce payback time...

[@Elitedevelop]

Thank you. Are you on the $1 per day with AGL for electric car charging? With your calculation, if you install another 10 kw of panels, the payback time at 13 cents export is 7.9 years or 12.65% return on your investment of $15,000 . Much better than bank return. Having 3 phase power, I were able to go to 15 kw maximum inverter size with 18.8 kw of panels. Best of all able to charge the car at full rate 17 kwh or 80km/hr drawing power from solar panels and power wall 2 during the day without drawing anything from the Grid. Click Energy has a plan call click shine extra where they offer 16 cents/kw for export

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hi Lawrence, yes I'm on $1/day AGL. That's true, ROI 12% is good after 8 years. Keep in mind though that the panels' output does decrease slightly over time. Nice work with a 15kW inverter - would be good if you can charge your car at that rate when the sun is out. I don't have that luxury and can only charge in the evening/overnight. You can use the PW2 to charge your car overnight but each PW2 max output is only 5kW (7kW burst) or 25km/h and only 13.5kWH or 67km. I suppose you could stack them so that 2xPW2 becomes 10kW ...

[@terrystephens1102]

Many thanks for your excellent presentation.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Pleasure, thanks for watching! :) TT

[@phillipsusi1791]

You only get 4 hours per day in Australia? Everything I've looked at here in Florida indicates that we get about 5.5 WH per day per Watt of nameplate ratting on solar.

[@arthdenton]

Nice calculations. And it's interesting how different things are in different parts of the world. Where I am, for example, Florida USA, the power company keeps track of whatever we 'give' them and they use it to offset what we consume at night or when, I don't know, charge our Teslas :). So, for us, a PowerWall makes no sense. On the other hand, our consumption here, because of heavy need of air conditioning and pool pumps, is more like 60-65 kWh per day, at least in the summer. Less in winter but then we produce less electricity in winter because of shorter days. In my case, the 12.4 kW system we have has me pay $180 per month over the next 20 years for it. Which means that every day that I produce more than 50 kWh (@ 12 cents per kW) I am even. And we constantly produce 60 kWh or more per day. And the power rates are likely to increase in the future so we basically had our system installed 'for free' and we already save maybe a Dollar or 2 per day but likely to be saving more as electricity rates go up.

[@tragicvision775]

10 years! do they last that long?

[@klaeLIFE]

Yes, they have a warranty that long too

[@wjdunk]

Should you not include the savings on what you would spend on power to further offset the overall cost? ie 20kwh (as stated as average Ozzie) @ $0.30 = $2190 (annually) in electricity charges you are no longer incuring.

[@LudicrousFeed]

William Dunk Thanks for your comment. That is certainly one way to calculate the payback time. Need to also factor in the opportunity cost lost for the solar feed in tariff and some may argue any Lithium Ion system will degrade over time too.

[@rickymartin06]

yes, i have my 3.5k array that constantly deliver 20k daily (in Puerto Rico) and my loan payment is setup to pay same amount of money i was paying to powergrid so for me the ROI is instant.

[@andres783]

Thats not how ROI works. Its not even how straight payback works. You are just shifting one cost to the other. You still have a liability, now its with someone else (not the utility). If you end up paying the same amount over 20 years, then your payback will be 20 years. You've recovered your investment, you just paid the money to someone else. Hope this was not how it was sold to you...

[@robsmith1a]

I'm in the UK, solar panels pay for themselves in about six years here (with government generation and feed into the grid payments). I can't make the maths work at all if I add a battery because they cost too much at present (if I could connect my electric car to the house effectively this would of course change).

[@raaah]

What about the Tesla battery?how long does it last?if it last 10 years (approx) then when you are done paying your system back now you have to buy another Tesla battery $11000

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for your question. I guess the short answer is that no-one knows exactly. All I can say is that the Tesla warranty covers/expects 70% efficiency at 10 years. Thanks for watching :)

[@LudicrousFeed]

Check out my new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@user-rl5jo1tt2g]

We live in Asheville NC. We already have 5kw panels and live in a very energy efficient home. What do you think the approximate payoff time for a Powerwall 2 would be? Thank you

[@andyamini5539]

Hi Tom, I love your channel and find most of it informative. I have a question in regards to this payback. I don’t see where in your calculations you take into account the opportunity cost of selling the whole (or at least the 13.5kwh that you store) back to the grid. At the rate which you speak to in this video there is $1.215 (13.5x0.09) per day which is not realised. Would this not need to be accounted for to understand the real TCO? If there wasn’t a battery this cost would be realised. Interested in your thoughts here as I am struggling with justification of a battery and this is one of the reasons.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks Andy, I'll need to revisit this video and look at my calculations but yes you'd have to take into account any opportunity costs lost from not feeding back into the grid at your FiT

[@andyamini5539]

@@LudicrousFeed Thanks Tom. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[@carolyncopeland2722]

Nice presentation but you forgot to mention that this assumes that prices for power stay the same. At a guess I would think power price inflation would reduce payback by a year

[@kenrhino7904]

And you assume the electric company won't reduce their payment 🤔

[@MoppelMat]

Don't you have any base grid costs? Where I live, we have to pay for the grid, whether we use it, or not. This can be a big number in relation to a very light usage (because of the panels).

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for your comment. Yes, we pay approx. 80c-$1/day as a supply charge. Sometimes less, depending on your energy provider. I didn't factor this into my calculations as it is a constant that you would have to pay regardless of whether you have solar/battery or not.

[@jz4958]

Wow. Solar panel are so expensive in Australia. Here in my country, I can buy a 275 watt solar panel for 70 USD.

[@ON8EI]

Unfortunately we in Belgium/Flanders have to pay almost €500 per year for a 5 kw setup, this a total rip off. :-( Thanks very much for your calculations. JD.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for sharing your situation in Belgium. I love learning new facts from my friends from around the world. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for watching :)

[@ahmadalami9640]

Great video mate, very informative!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Ahmad Alami Thanks!

[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

Hi Tom 250 watts sounds like this was a number of years ago. The brand new Jinko panels are 460 watts. My Jinko panels are 380 watts and I installed 2 years ago, Solar efficiencies and improvements with costs. I know you are making assumptions but maybe a updated 2019 or 2020 version would be good

[@raymondrynehart]

does not count for the power price rise, Victoria's history is 72% rise in the last 10 years, so in 5 years you could save at a 35% rise $2660 in that one year. so a payback could be 7 years or so

[@rajulrmakumar]

Note that all of the energy available from PV when stored into battery is not available to support the load. Battery energy efficiency of Tesla is ~88%. That efficiency is also a function of charge and discharge rate. In addiTion, teSla battery has some cooling losses when in standby/idle conditions. Also, as someone else pointed, solar may not be available for x days due to cloud pass etc- probably not a big issue in Australia. Battery also degrades to 70-80% energy available at yr 10. All of this will likely push payback time beyond 10 years

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the comment, you make some good points there. Check out my new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@danielhughes6896]

Why is the hot water cheaper (19 cents) instead of 30 cents for everything else. Is this some weird Australian pricing system? Do you get charged for hot water at a different rate over there?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Daniel Hughes Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Hot water is considered ‘controlled load’ and on a lower tariff. Thanks for the comment :)

[@ek9772]

Your presentation is very good. Have you considered in your daily average the winter. Most solar installations will drop energy production by 50% to 60% in the winter. So if in the summer you have 5 kW x (average peak sun hours) 4 = 20 kWh. In the winter, this could be 5 kW x 4 x 50% = 10 kWh. 25% x 10 kWh = 2.5 kWh. 10 kWh - 2.5 kWh = 7.5 kWh. PW requires 13.5 kWh. 13.5 kWh - 7.5 kWh = 5 kWh deficit which must be supplied from the grid.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Eric Kosak Thanks Eric. That 4x multiplier is actually an average across the year. In summer, it’s actually closer to 6-7x whereas in winter as you’ve rightly pointed out, it’s closer to 2-3x. TT

[@ek9772]

Ludicrous Feed you are correct if you are talking of the sun’s inclination. However, you forgot about cloud cover which is not included in the average.

[@ubercai]

I always wondered why Tesla PowerWall had a market, as in Ontario Canada, the peak rate is $0.132 / kWh and the off-peak rate is $0.065 / kWh. In addition, people with solar panels can get net meters with the hydro companies and get a credit for generated electricity. So each kW generated equals to each kW used. Some older solar panel owners had old government-subsidized plans which they sell power to the grid at roughly $0.54 / kWh for 25 years. Using Tesla PowerWall to offset the peak rate vs the off-peak rate at 20 kWh per day average use with Tesla PowerWall installation price of roughly $10,000 will see a payback period of 20 years. I guess the reason for different hydro rates is that my monthly hydro cost is about 40% fixed cost where they charge $40 flat fee for "connecting to the grid". They call it delivery cost. So in Canada, unless I go off-grid, there isn't a lot market for a Tesla PowerWall. With your explanation, it is clear Tesla PowerWall does have a market where hydro "per kWh" cost are high and the energy companies are not buying power back at the same distributed rate.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Torxit Thanks for your comment. Sounds like you are very fortunate in Canada with relatively low electricity tariffs compared to ours in Australia. I agree with you, with such low tariffs, it does make an investment in a PW2 questionable particularly if grid energy is already drawing from a renewable source such as hydroelectricity. Our feed-in-tariffs are low also which means net metering is not as beneficial as it would be in other markets. Thanks for contributing and thanks for watching!

[@grendelum]

You forgot the most important metric... value of the power staying on when the grid goes down: *_Priceless._*

[@LudicrousFeed]

orion khan Totally agree - it is priceless! I’m still amazed how quickly the backup kicks in - literally within milliseconds. Thanks for watching!

[@mattlane2282]

gird power is not going to go down, you all got no clue how power generation works.

[@grendelum]

Matt Lane - uhm... the *”gird”* as you call it (I’ll say the _electrical _*_grid,_* the network of cables, transformers, relays etc that connect my (and everyone else’s) house to the power plant), fails *all the time* down here in SW Florida during storm season (we routinely get thunderstorms that gust 50+ mph), but I think you misunderstand one crucial factor, that these are *_temporary_* losses of _grid_ power... *blackouts* as it were. Neither of us are saying _”zomg, the __-zombie-__ apocalypse is coming !! We’ll lose grid power forever so we must install a solar PV system with battery backup”,_ but rather that over the course of a year we frequently have times where the _grid_ goes down for a few minutes or hours (or after *Hurricane Irma* when I went 11 days) _but eventually _*_turns back on._* The _Tesla PowerWall_ simply makes it so that if your neighborhood loses power temporarily, you will not notice as your house will be powered by the PowerWall (tho I do imagine the Tesla app will notify you).

[@mattlane2282]

wow you are really dense aint you, guess you never ever made a typo in your life... oh wait... YOU CALLED IT "THE GRID" "value of the power staying on when the grid goes down" RIGHT IN YOUR OP... wow... just wow... I'm just gona stop at this point, when your trying to tell me your gona call it the "electrical grid" when you called it the grid... pointless just pointless to even go on anymore. That being said I misread the comment and thought it was talking about grid power PRICES...

[@grendelum]

Matt Lane - that I clarified it to be the electrical grid (opposed to say the internet grid) predicated by the phrase “I’ll say” by no means locks me into one method of description, but as you point out, why bother? For the record I make *_tons_* of typos but that’s what autocorrect and proofreading are for. @Ludicrous Feed - you’re officially a true *KZbinr* now that the first hateful troll has found their way here !! 🎊 *_Congratulations?_* 🎊

[@zezizarjaars]

We got a 270 watt solar panel for 130 euro? Or about 150 dollar, why 375 dollar? Or is that with installation costs and the converter?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the comment. Prices quoted are with installation included and in Australian dollars. 1 EUR = 1.60 AU Labour costs are very high in Australia!

[@zezizarjaars]

And that's with the converter added as well (between the solar panels and the grid?). Because then it seems like a very fair deal to me indeed, 235 euro for the panel, the installation and connection to the grid.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I didn't factor in the Inverter cost because they do vary in price depending on brand and whether it's a string or micro-inverter.

[@stevenbrown6606]

where I live qld..there is 260 sunny days,so your way out...about 40% allow 50% on cloudy days(or less) and your still out by 20% or more out.Battery warranties are crap..When they say 10 years,they mean 3100 cycles(8.5 yrs) 37800KW x.11cents-$4158.or less because its lost 30% capacity towards the end of its life.Basically you get back half what you paid.add interest

[@michaeldruce4536]

If I purchased an electric car, could I use the powerwall at night to charge my car? If so, there would be a fuel saving that could be included in your calculations too.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hi Michael, thanks for your question. Like with any energy-related question, it really all depends on your personal circumstance. In this case, it all depends on whether you can squeeze you daily household electricity usage and the amount you need to charge your EV for your daily drive into 13.5kWh (or even less if best practice suggests we should leave at least 20% charge of our PW2 to increase longevity i.e. 80% of 13.5kWh = 10.8kWh). Keep in mind 1kWh = approx. 5km range in an EV. Hope that helps :)

[@andres783]

How would this compare to straight up solar system (to offset 100% of usage)? With your PV prices (which are unreal btw, I dont know how you'd buy PV at 1.5/W without incentives) being so low I;d imagine that $11,000 from PW2 would buy an additional 7.3kW system, or 1.25x your original PV. To me batteries are not ready yet to be financially viable on the residential market, even at cost they take way too long and die too soon to make it a smart decision, unless you are in a blackout or brownout area

[@igotstoknow2]

Cost of $18.5k system for 30 years is $51.39 per month plus loss of investment gain of $18.5k if invested in good growth mutual funds plus the cost of battery/electronics replacements/labor. An investment of $15k and lower cost energy reduction methods (solar hot water, more insulation, etc.) would produce much more than the up front cost of the solar/TW2 system.

[@nothingincommon]

10 years, lovely! Right around the time the powerwall goes pear shaped.

[@LudicrousFeed]

NothingInCommon I’ll give you an update in 8 years! 😊

[@Adeptuzz]

You are leaving out installationcost for this setup

[@LudicrousFeed]

Victor Libäck All prices that I’ve listed in this video include installation. Thanks for watching!

[@OwenLewis67]

Victor Libäck There is only mention of the battery installation cost. there is no mention of installation costs of the panels and inverters. perhaps the price of $375 per panel is the installed cost based on a 20 Panel array and appropriate inverter. There are issues around the assumption that a typical house uses 20Kwh per day. it is possible that on a weekend or on holidays the usage will blow out and it rains all day. this could lead to the battery failing to fill from solar and thus alter the calculation. Equally you could go on holidays and have days where nearly all your solar is exported rather than used. So taking an average in the end is right approach.

[@ms-jl6dl]

30c a KW? Here(bosnia) it is about 12c. so turnover time would be 22-25 years.

[@TheManiChahal]

This calculation is based on current electricity rates. But electricity is becoming expensive every year and in next 5 to 10 years these rates will be nearly X1.5 or double. So the payback for the solar and the battery will be less than the estimated 10 years. Bonus side of this thing is that you are covered if the grid is down for any reason. Plus if you have electric car then payback is even quicker because the equation for fuel price falls in. So go green...!!

[@beeseebee_]

I wish you would use a smaller chalk board.

[@LudicrousFeed]

BeeSeeBee and here I am wishing I had a larger chalkboard! 😁 Thanks for watching :)

[@greasemonkey9329]

I guess the big question is, what sort life expectancy would the batteries have? I"m hearing a general consensus of 10 - 12 years. If this is the case, at this stage its still not viable to change over to a hybrid battery system. However prices are coming down. Great video, keep up the good work.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for watching!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Check out my new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@SuperFredAZ]

One thing you haven't taken into account is solar panels degrade 1-2% each year, also your batteries and electronics will need replacement after 15-years on average. It's one thing to "go green" and that's laudable, but the vision that after 10 years you are receiving "free" energy forever is naive. My opinion: if you are doing it to save the planet, by all means, but if it's to save money, make sure you do your own analysis, take into account equipment replacement, degradation of the output and storage year after year, and what happens if you need to work on your roof, who do you call?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Fred Zlotnick Thanks for your comment. I agree that the solar/batteries are subject to material and chemical decay and degradation. It’d be unreasonable to expect any system to be as efficient 15 years down the track the same way I don’t expect my dishwasher or dryer to be the same after that time. The 1-2% quoted may possibly be offset by any rises in electricity tariffs - although I intentionally left them out in my calculations as it is probably a somewhat predictable increase, it is not a reliable guarantee. It then boils down to a philosophical choice as to what values we want to adopt and instil for our future generations - in this case, whether we want to continue using fossil fuel or progress with renewable and potentially sustainable energy sources. Thanks for watching!

[@SuperFredAZ]

I am glad you took this comment the way I meant it, I never try to be a "troll" . Everyone should perform his own analysis and see if it makes sense in his environment. The equiment will wear out or become obsolete in 10-15 years, take that into account.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Fred Zlotnick I always appreciate constructive feedback. I couldn’t agree more - each person ought to analyse and research for their own situation. When it comes to solar/batteries, there really isn’t a ‘one-size-fits-all’ solution which is why when you ask anyone in the industry about what to purchase, they will always ask you about your usage first. Thanks for your contribution!

[@mattlane2282]

what about how bad it is to make the panels, they use some very nasty chemicals...

[@PI4YOU]

IMHO, you have both left out the affect future technology will have upon systems and how hard it will be to upgrade. Will advancement of graphene have an affect on system maintenance, system reliability and life expectancy? Thanks for the video. I think you provide good information for a larger audience than you have. Consider promoting your page?

[@sacp2273]

This is a great video! Wierdly enough, I live in Washington State, USA. All of our electricity is Hydro Power. We have so much power that we export it to California and Las Vegas, whom then re-sell it back to us again at a higher rate on demand. Don't ask! That part is F'd up! My point is that the North West part of the USA has been a green power producer since the 1950's and solar roofs and electric cars are almost a gimic here. Sure we have them, but we also have never had a "carbon footprint" either!

[@tomdisk]

Great video , but what is missing in all those calculations ( and thats stargazing I know but a given none the less ) is the increase in powerbills in the coming years ;-). Just look back at the last five years and you know what I mean . I have had now a 5 kw system on our roof for four years and the panels are still performing as day one . this week I had a Tesla powerwall 2 installed with the full backup gateway for $ 12700 and the 5kw system cost me $7000. four years ago. would have thought that the solar systems today are a few thou cheaper ?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for watching and for your comment. I think you're right, power prices have a high chance of rising over the next few years - I am planning to do a video on this topic soon! My prices are based only on a couple of quotes I received. If you can get a cheaper quote then you're certainly doing well!

[@mattlane2282]

Well please tell us where those magic panels came from because EVERY solar panel made loses output as soon as it goes into service so if after 4 years they really still are preforming as day one... that some real magic.

[@robertmontgomery7158]

How durable is the PW in 10 years? That is unknown.

[@LudicrousFeed]

No-one will know for sure until that time comes. All I can say for sure is that the warranty states that expected efficiency is 70% after 10 years.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Also, check out my new video where I’ve tried to address the issue of battery life in Tesla’s products: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7aiWOvhbOZaJI See what you think and thank you for watching :)

[@lukehutchinson6754]

I didn't realise that 20kwh per day was the average. Seems really high to me, I put on a 5Kw solar system 14 months ago and can't justify a battery. My system saves me around $1100 per year. Our daily usage from the grid is 5.5KwH a day. For us the repayment is close to 14yrs if the wall lasts that long and we try and use more power overnight...

[@senecamanu6515]

Panasonic panels (x16) + Crown AGM 390 is $8,980 (for better kwh on panels and battery bank) and I did this entire calculation in 5 minutes. That number is half of Tesla's.

[@iandoble6289]

Hello Thomas; I think your 9.4 year payback will be shorter if yo consider the fact that you pay no tax on the energy saving you make whereas you pay your electricity bill from taxed income. Based on 20% tax; that would shorten a 10 year payback to 8 years.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Ian Doble Good point ... however you’d need after-tax income to buy your Solar/PW2. Unless you can find a way to make that a tax deduction/expense for your home business/office - disclaimer: check with your accountant :)

[@mirozen_]

With current pricing of less than 8 cents per kwh locally from the grid solar power just doesn't come off as very attractive where I live. Great for isolated locations without access to the grid though.

[@Umski]

Bit late to the party commenting, but quite a few big assumptions there based on my experience of just a 4kWp PV system in the UK - intermittent weather plays a large part (maybe it's more consistent in Australia?) - a couple of days with overcast conditions or rain would reduce the yield/day and hence how much is imported - plus in winter the PV output barely covers background use in the house let alone trying to fill a battery! I also wonder if that 13.5kWh in the battery will be used during the night so that it is effectively empty come the next morning? This would happen if an EV was charging I guess. I reckon the assumed scenario would equate to around 2/3 of the year rather than 365 days - the calcs seem to be a 'best-case' scenario excluding inflation, maintenance etc. I worked out that in my situation, adding a PW2 at around £6500 would take 30 years to pay for itself! Unless I get an EV it doens't stack up at the moment...