Sonnen Battery Vs Tesla Powerwall II

[@vincenzo19861000]

*Awesome solar panels accessory for the electric **Generater.Systems** lightweight easy to carry and set up love it love the set up thank you very satisfied*

[@drobinson0601]

This panel can put out close to 100 watts kzbin.infoUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.

[@billrogers9230]

Your head to head comparisons are the kind of information that is needed to make informed decisions. You provide the facts that other videos claim to provide while selling their preferred installation services. I truly appreciative your straightforward information 👍

[@aSqueaker]

I hope you'll begin to address the "availability" factor. Which ones are real, and which ones are unobtainium?

[@johnfitbyfaithnet]

Excellent point

[@franknyhuis6607]

Apparently the minimum wait time here Australia is at least 6 months.

[@strykerace]

found a video about the Sonnen Core. Not sold on the "installation will be cheaper" due to modular design requiring few people. Seems like the modular design will require the installers to build and configure the battery, so even if you need fewer installers the installation time could be elongated as they have to unpack the case and 4 separate modules and walk them each to the location and put to location. Whereas the powerwall solution seems ready to go to be fitted to a location, no tinkering with the innards and less risk of getting wires crossed. I feel like the fewer steps would lower installation cost. I've never installed either product nor had either product but thinking of in terms of installation time, process, and what could go wrong. Typically more steps means more opportunities for failure and additional time.

[@elmojito]

I am in Spain and I have a sonnen 15kW so no, they are not just 10kW. In fact, I just contacted my installer about getting a second 15kW. First, my install was done by one person so I can vouch for that statement. I am aware that the US sonnen are slightly different to the European versions. First, available 3 phase which mine is. Second you can join them in my version up to 90kW. Also, I believe sonnen opened a factory in the US, as well as Australia, so they are made there and not just in Germany.

[@0101Zero]

Thanks for adding my earlier comments about the Tesla app and vehicle charging!

[@SolarSurge]

You got it. Please keep the feedback coming.

[@karenjcosme]

We have 'time of use' under another term here in Massachusetts (although it reads as more expensive due to annual 'fee'), so this was very helpful. Thank you.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for sharing. What are the on-peak and off-peak rates you are seeing in MA?

[@gilbrook]

@karen I’m in Eversource’s Eastern region. Where would that item be on my bill? Thx.

[@campbellcrockatt6065]

Excellent comparison video. It would be interesting to also compare the App Software for each of these two types of batteries in a separate video

[@PeaceChanel]

Thank You for supporting Solar and All that you are doing for World Peace and for our Planet... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Paz.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮️ ❤️ 💐 🕊

[@erickessler6094]

Another great comparison Joe! I really hope a PowerWall 3 comes out soon to address its weaknesses around off-grid use micro-cycling.

[@SolarSurge]

I hope so too!

[@strykerace]

is micro cycle even really counted? the negative impacts to battery solution is really only based on near full cycle, micro cycles shouldn't have any impacts.

[@erickessler6094]

@@strykerace The micro cycles occur when sun is bright and the batteries are full, so it shuts the solar collection down for 5mins the the house runs on battery for those 5mins... then turns on energy collection till full (micro charging) again, then it shuts solar collection down again... repeats topping off batteries till sun goes down. Those 5 mins on and off appear to be short cycling the batteries ...

[@christinearmington]

I guess this doesn’t matter if you’re selling power back to the grid.

[@brockallstate]

A Tesla solar battery will be around 65% degradation around year 15, a Sonnen degrades much slower it still has 65% after 28000 cycles which is 40 years!!!!!!!! Sonnen is also a safer battery, iron phosphate is a safer chemistry. Also Sonnen has an amazing app

[@miguelrivera-diaz6186]

I live in Puerto Rico and one advantage of the Sonnen battery is the ability to cusomized its power storage in 2kw increments. My system is a 16 kw, also it can be charged by hidrogenerator turbines , air turbines or an diesel, propane gas or gasoline generator in case of bad weather ( CLOUDY DAYS!) , great advantage in a Tropical Island as Maria Hurricane show us! My system is a Eco gen 2 and it peak power is 10kw and 8kw sustained!

[@christinearmington]

Very good to know ❤

[@AngelPerez-nw5cd]

Is the system still running good?

[@brockallstate]

Huge update to Sonnen, Sonnen core + can now hold up to 20 kWH with out going to the sonnen eco linx Sonnen all day baby. If you have questions hit me up 🤙🏽

[@cargeek4777]

How much do they cost ?

[@cowshades333]

I love your series Joe, you do such a great job presenting the information. Keep it up!

[@arleneallen8809]

Nice comparison and your production quality is first class. You didn't touch on the SOC association with cycling. All the various batteries, including lead acid, tend towards considerably increased number of lifetime cycles when the cycle is for a minimal percentage of the battery. I designed my battery stack to be sufficiently large that even in a nasty outage I may only go down to 80% SOC. Tesla cars seem to behave the same way (I'm an owner). The long term data shows that owners who drive a lot of miles in total for the year but charge frequently rather than running it down to 10 or 20% on each cycle have less top end loss than the opposite case. In my current model S, after 4 years of driving 15k or so per year, I can't detect any range difference between now and new. Thanks for the good work.

[@davidkendall2272]

We use our two PW2's in self-powered mode to complement our 13.2 kWh solar PV system in Edmonds, WA and have been able to generally operate our all electric home ~8 months of the year without using any grid energy, including charging two Tesla's. We generated 350% of our electricity last year, and exported most of the excess energy back to grid. The PW2's are an excellent product and I have been thrilled by their performance over the past 3 years. Our electric rates are uniform here, so no time of use necessary, and we are focused on reducing our grid energy draws.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi David. Thanks for writing in and sharing your experience with Tesla.

[@mildredbaez463]

I enjoy so much your videos. I live in Puerto Rico before having a sales person on the phone I see your videos and I'm ready to ask the right question. At the end of conversation they ask me if I am ever looking for a part time job let them know. Could you believe that! I could be a good sales person thank to your videos. Thank you for an awesome videos. God Bless You and your family.

[@SolarSurge]

That is awesome! I'm glad the videos are helping. I wish you success with your solar power project.

[@brockallstate]

All I know is in my state the local power company gives a big rebate check for the sonnen and not for a power wall. And that the sonnen last longer

[@SolarSurge]

Where are you located?

[@bobqzzi]

I enjoy your videos. Very informative. Possible future topic: Lumin v. Span Smart Panel.

[@SolarSurge]

Great suggestion!

[@chefgav1]

@@SolarSurge we have had Tesla fires here in Australia. The Australian environment is harsh on batteries. LG chem had a huge recall here in Australia and got removed from the marketplace until they can fix there heat issues

[@ytSuns26]

Tesla made in the USA , I choose Tesla living in Florida. Excellent presentation , very impressive.

[@acsllinas]

Sonnen Core is also made in the USA. In Stone Mountain GA

[@carladams9345]

@@acsllinas but Tesla isn't made in a place that celebrates the confederacy.

[@christinearmington]

@@carladams9345 Bravo! 🇺🇸

[@barkingupthetree]

UK electrician and new subscriber here, HI 👋 Really enjoy your videos, keep up the great work 🙌🏽

[@Wild1BillS]

What about future maintenance costs. It seems like if a battery dies in the Sonnen you can open it up and replace it vs the Tesla you need to replace entire unit.

[@SolarSurge]

Good point. I have not seen the Sonnen batteries fail yet. But its definitely a more modular design.

[@tommills6283]

I thought Tesla did a way with cycle warranty for the Powerwall II and is strictly based on number of years?

[@SolarSurge]

That is correct. Tesla changed the warranty but they didn't change the battery, so let's see if they hold up long term.

[@nausetlight5192]

Great content! Can you do a deep dive into solar shingles/tiles where they are now and if there will be more companies offering them in the US? Thanks

[@SolarSurge]

Great video idea. Thanks for suggesting this.

[@polarbearigloo]

LFP also has the longest cycle life compared to teslas powerwall Lithium chemistry. That is why they use that for there megapack structures for grid balancing Peaker plants. I am suprised they are still using the powerwall 2 since they are still battery constraint for vehicle construction. Love these comparisons between all ecosystems, they are very informative and learn more every video!

[@niffrig]

They don't use NMC in Tesla vehicles, they used an advanced version of NCA

[@polarbearigloo]

@@niffrig the main limiting factor is the use of Cobalt. Also why the powerwall has gone up in price. Also they are needing you to buy solar and not just the battery. This goes with 3rd party installers as well.

[@TheSydguy30]

@@polarbearigloo Yep, LG have cobalt free batteries and get rated REALLY good price / perf ratio.

[@MrPony2005]

Great video! At this moment I’m analyze both batteries but I prefer Tesla. I’ll use it for back up only.

[@Rhaspun]

Right now Tesla won't be selling Powerwalls to you unless you are combining with their solar roof or panels.

[@christinearmington]

@@Rhaspun That’s what I had heard, too. But here in WNC they say you can buy the PWs separately.

[@tayneh2890]

Is the Sonnen Core stackable?

[@PlanetFrosty]

We also have backup diesel generators

[@paulbianchi7877]

What is the efficiency of the inverter? What does warranty cover. What is the recharge time based on the Kwh regen. What is the derating for temperature. What is the derating during its life time.

[@paulbianchi7877]

I will introduce a system for backup uses initially with a cycle life of 150,000 plus. Efficiency of 94% .

[@campbellcrockatt6065]

Excellent video comparison. We have three of the earlier Eco 8.2 Sönnen storage batteries (bought in 2018).

[@bootangy]

are 2 sonnens enough to get mostly off grid?

[@SolarSurge]

That depends on your loads. If you have gas or propane for heating and hot water, then yes you could probably survive off-grid with 2 Sonnen batteries.

[@bootangy]

@@SolarSurge ty

[@WilliamRNicholsonLST-1195]

Great explanation ! Really like your easy to understand videos.

[@stevelowry9127]

GREAT VID !! THANKS, JOE

[@CC-mj3zq]

I think its fair to mention that Sonnen needs an indoor location.

[@SolarSurge]

Good point. Sonnen is not rated for outdoor installation although Tesla is.

[@dirkvuerinckx]

thnaks fot this video! I'm planning to have the Sonnen system, in Belgium, Europe

[@jinhocha01]

Great information! Thanks!

[@leoyueli1515]

BYD battery is scalable and cheaper; could you please do a BYD review?

[@mvrck-pb5pk]

+1 would love a BYD review. Thanks in advance.

[@tommills6283]

So if the Sonnen has a an 8.6kW peak vs Powerwall II 7kW, the Sonnen should have the advantage for providing power to inductive motors? I thought he said the opposite in the video?

[@out2flip]

Your due for an updated video! Sonnen now has a 20kwh Battery!

[@ronthompson7276]

In Salt Lake City, Utah the power company here is offering a $600.00 rebate per kw of back up. Right now the only battery approved is Sonnen. By doing this you slow the power company to manage your batteries for 4 years during that time they can use your system to help during high use to power other homes. They will not draw your battery down below 50%. I’m not sure if the difference in price of the system would be made up with the rebate or not and if it is good to let them have control of your batteries. They do pay you for the power and some extra money per year for doing this. Please let me know if this is a good deal

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Ron and thanks for writing in. I would be very hesitant to get into a scheme like this with the power company. People chose solar + storage to get away from the power company and become more self-sufficient.

[@BenchHH11]

My sonnen battery died July 9th 2022 after only five years. Sonnen doesn't have after sales service worthy of the word. They say they have no spare parts and that's the only answer i got. Just sit and wait. That's it, German «eficiency» and friendliness.

[@BenchHH11]

@@theuslens how will you help?

[@ChetGeorge]

Great presentation - AS USUAL.👍 As a note to your claim of the cost of a Tesla being higher, my installer put the Powerwall in by himself. AND he installed it in my basement. He just used an industrial dolly. He's not a body builder but he's not a 150# weakling either. He's what I'd call a fit average 6', 35 year old guy. So I don't know why you suggest that you need more than one installer - certainly not 3. So in your comparison chart I'd give the Tesla Powerwall 1 extra point and declare it the WINNER. Unfortunately Tesla is backlogged and NOT selling batteries without a solar installation, so people that just want to have battery backup have to look elsewhere. 😉

[@rayrawa9517]

I don’t understand why you gave 2 x-factor points to the first unit. It sounds like you gave it extra points for things that you already scored it in other categories.

[@alanarnott4465]

I am thinking about getting Sonnen Batteries to be paired with my Enphase solar and 7IQ inverters. Do you know of a 3rd party app that could be used to manage both of these systems?

[@rbe5579]

I thought the Sonnen battery system was rated at 15KWh, and that it could hold 6 x 2.5KWh batteries - 2 batteries side by side on 3 shelves... Was I wrong?

[@smartellpr]

Is it just me or did he say 12 year warranty for Sonnen at one point in the video. Either way, I think this comparison just got me to go with Sonnen. Curious he did not mention Sonnen batteries can share energy over the grid to other Sonnen customers in a network fashion. Great concept and I understand Puerto Rico government is considering to approve customers share energy peer to peer with the Sonnen type network sharing. Great video! Keep up the good work!

[@smartellpr]

Yep, at 7:07 he says 12 years, but i understand its only 10 years, no biggie.

[@SolarSurge]

Thank you sir. Please let us know your experience with getting the Sonnen installed.

[@kirk8985]

Thank you

[@mrconana]

Another way to relate to the warrantee based on the application is power per day at 10000 cycles. 37.8mw/365 days/10years =5.8kw per day. So if your applications peak demand usage is less than 5.8kw per day, the warrantee is the same.

[@SolarSurge]

Good point. I came to 2,800 cycles based on a total 100% battery usage per day.

[@rayrawa9517]

100% usage should be saved for exceptional situations like power outages not daily time-of-use as that’s just begging for trouble. It seems that if you need to cycle that much energy per day you might want to consider a larger system.

[@strykerace]

What is the cost of each battery solution (excluding installation)? Cost can be tricky here because if you are borderline on the Sonnen and need a second Sonnen, but would only need one Powerwall on same solution then possibly the Powerwall would have better cost.

[@SolarSurge]

We are still looking into the exact pricing. To my knowledge, Sonnen Core us not yet in wide distribution with US solar wholesalers. Once we have firm pricing, I can confirm.

[@supernat1978]

We're having a 21kW grid-tie system put in shortly without batteries, but curious how it would work to add batteries later on as the technology and costs improve. Or maybe even a DIY approach.

[@SolarSurge]

You should be able to add 2 or more Tesla Powerwall's to a system of that size with all the work being doing at ground-level.

[@JBoy340a]

Good comparison. We went with 2 Powerwalls when we installed our solarroof. We have a whole house backup and can start the central A/C. But the central A/C will drain the 2 batteries in a few hours at night. During the day, the solar provides enough power to charge the batteries and run A/C and other loads. Since it is an easy to expand, we may add a 3rd PW for running a longer time without power, and since we are on Time-Of-Use, selling more power back to the utility. Elon talked about a LFP Powerwall in the future and we might wait a year to see if a new PowerWall 3 appears.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Jerry. Thanks for sharing your experience. I suspect Tesla may even leap-frog LFP and go to a more energy dense chemistry for Powerwall 3. Nano-printed lithium claims 4x the power density of the current Powerwall battery chemistry.

[@JBoy340a]

@@SolarSurge - Wow. I guess maybe I do want to wait for the PW3. Do you think this would translate to a 3-4X increase in kWh storage in a similar sized package?

[@SolarSurge]

@@JBoy340a Yes that's what I would expect.

[@4literv6]

Interesting comparison. Have you covered the new span io panel, built by a former tesla energy executive? 🤔

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for writing in. I will add this to the list for future video topics.

[@billdoodson4232]

The big advantage of the Sonnen is the fact the storage capacity can be easily increased to 20kW due it being so modular.

[@bootangy]

ive been recommended the huewai luna 2000? any reviews plz?

[@kawaiisenshi2401]

I think sonnen won it for me just because of the cycle life

[@tommills6283]

Not only that you can actually get the Sonnen.

[@PKpopdU]

I have the 12kwh sonnen and it's flawless.. I'm using the power to write this :D

[@kawaiisenshi2401]

Should we aim to have a pre-assembled back up battery system or a mkdulare battery setup? Im confused which i should be aiming for

[@SolarSurge]

Good question. It really depends on your requirements and long-term goals. I prefer the modular system because it gives me more control.

[@Pyeknom]

2 people max for Tesla powerwalls install. If you had a couple days or three one person can install. I've helped install well over 300 powerwalls.

[@jjjjj33333able]

Great information!!!

[@jamieadams7550]

Can you use the Tesla power wall installed in a rv?

[@SolarSurge]

No this is for fixed installation only.

[@jamieadams7550]

And can the Sonon battery be used in a rv installation?

[@SolarSurge]

No this is for a fixed installation only. For a mobile application, take a look at MagnaSine 4448 paired with marine/RV deep cycling batteries.

[@jamieadams7550]

@@SolarSurge thankyou very much will do

[@horscategorie]

I am curious - Can multiple powerwalls be put in parallel so they can have higher output and take more charge? I plan on a 16+ kwH array, but what is the point if the power wall can only output 5kw with 7kw surge and charge 7kw. What I want to know is to back up one 200 amp service (I have 400 amp service split in 2 200 amp panels, unfortunately only 2 phase, but alas...) can I use 2 or 3 power walls together to have enough output - at 15kw, with 21 kw surge to supply that one service? Or even better - can 6 total power walls 3 on each service, back up the entire home? 2 banks of 3?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, absolutely. You can stack up to 6 Powerwall's to boost power output and storage.

[@dealerovski82]

any news and updates since last 2 years? who has evolved most?

[@farnzy2011]

My biggest gripe with my power wall 2 at the moment is when functioning in a grid down mode, the frequency shift to power down the solar causes issues with electrical equipment.

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, that's a good point. Sensitive electronics (A/V equipment, medical equipment, laster printers, etc.) do not response well to the frequency shift. For a better off-grid experience, consider using a DC-coupled battery system like Generac PWRCell or Outback Radian.

[@horscategorie]

Can't you install a rectifier? (asking - I don't know the answer)

[@SolarSurge]

@@horscategorie That really won't do it unless you are using DC-powered equipment like radios. The truth is, AC-coupling is a hack to be able to add battery backup after the fact. All true off-grid systems are DC-coupled and don't have to worry about frequency shifting. They just put out clean power all the time.

[@farnzy2011]

@@horscategorie to say that ac coupled systems are a hack is not true. Yes I have issues with mine that's because tesla have had to fund a way to work with all brands of inverters, this could be solved without frequency shift if the power wall could software interface with my ABB inverter.

[@TheSydguy30]

@@SolarSurge What about the LG Chem batteries?

[@danielcapson9842]

Could you do a video on the new Panasonic batteries? EverVolt™ AC-Coupled Home Battery Storage

[@SolarSurge]

Yes this will be coming soon. I have an interview scheduled with an engineer from Panasonic.

[@iridium58]

I gave up on Tesla, been waiting for a year for 2 Powerwalls.. I already had solar panels at home, can't keep waiting.. I think they prioritize their installs if you buy the powerwalls with solar panels with them.. at the end just bought a Sol Ark 12k with a lithium battery system..

[@polarbearigloo]

this recently just changed for this reason because they are battery restrained. Prioritizing full systems unless you worked with them in the past (I'm back from solar city days)

[@SolarSurge]

Yes it's a real shame the delays. I should give Sonnen +2 points for just being available for install.

[@chefgav1]

LG chem battery are available here in Australia with no wait. Not sure if you can get LG there

[@nathaniel5208]

Where are you guys located

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Nathaniel. I am based on the East Coast in Virginia, but we have partners all over the country. Please feel free to reach out via the website if you need a quote.

[@scout4locations]

What type of PV and storage system might you recommend or design for a stationary, off grid residence that is in the Antelope Valley of California? Sun is plentiful but winters are cold and summers are hot. For instance, as low as 10° F some nights in January and days as high as 115° F in July. Wind is a reliable source of energy also. It is steady and abundant for 6-9 months out of the year. If you were to design and build an integrated wind/solar residential electrical system with storage where would you start from scratch? Assume all the usual appliances including A/C and some water pumping. I am trying to do this on an ad hoc basis. Right now I am in the embryonic stage with only 100 watts of PV from Harbor Freight, no wind turbines, 4 flooded Pb acid deep cycle marine batteries from AutoZone. I also use a gas powered generator, but I want to reduce dependance upon that and have a zero emissions carbon footprint Obviously this is amateur stuff for you, but there are quite a few of us out here in the desert who could use some help with this. Most of us don't pay rent and can't afford much. Thank you for your time.

[@danielgattuzo3065]

The thing that your not mentioning with this or the Generac comparison is that the Tesla units battery(ies) are not easily replaceable if at all. Is it possible to replace the battery in the Tesla? “Expandable” would indicate that when the batteries are done that they could be swapped out with new as well as expandable if more capacity is required in the future. I think that is a big issue after the warranty period but also 15 or even 20 years down the line if the Tesla unit is cannot be accessed to replace the storage.

[@johntierney3353]

Powerwall II - x-factor: -5. No longer available for purchase as stand alone. Only available for purchase in conjunction with Tesla solar arrays.

[@scotthall1381]

You can buy through a Dealer, just not Tesla directly

[@SolarSurge]

Agree. Tesla is really letting us down in terms of keeping up supply to match the demand.

[@Klausryan]

Uhmm the sonnen battery has the same features in regard of the app.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for writing in. Do you have a Sonnen battery?

[@Klausryan]

@@SolarSurge In process of getting. based on 18.000 kw/y use. but covid...

[@SolarSurge]

@@Klausryan That's great. Please share your feedback once the battery is installed.

[@sergiofabian2527]

In your professional opinion what is the best battery system for an off grid home with a Sol-ark 12k inverter?

[@SolarSurge]

Sol-Ark PCC batteries. As many as your can afford. At least 30kWh.

[@sondrawinters6471]

Sonnen (core + anyway) has a 20kWh unit now (2023) with the same footprint as the 10kWh. Same solar limitation.

[@randalfriesen4515]

How about the newest one out there from ACDC. They say that they are $1000 dollars cheaper that the Tesla and store more energy. Could you please do a comparison with them as well.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Randal. Thanks for writing in with a video idea. I will add this one to the list.

[@peterstringa3350]

Just today I see your vid. One note. You know that oil company SHELL since 2019 is 100 % full owner of Sonnen? The question rises why SHELL bought this company. It might be that they want to stop the storage solar energy sector in favor of hydrogen use by customers. It also might not be the case, but as a Dutch I have doubts, knowing that SHELL is one of the multinationals which roots are in the Dutch VOC (United East Indian Company) which had a bussiness mentallity where ethics did not exist, murders were done, whole (African and Indian) populations were ruined and deported, Where competotors were bought or forced out and their bussinesses were made bankrupt deliberately, only as VOC to be the only seller in the world. To me I get the feeling that it can be the same as the " war" around 1900 between electric driven cars and the petrol driven cars. I wanted to buy a Sonnen system with a 30 kWh capacity storage each unit, but knowing the above, I don´t know what to do.

[@peterstringa3350]

@@theuslens You mean me? When I was 19 once I drank a glass. The reaction......Jumping around like I had a good sniff of Coke. So never again. And now I am 66. But believe me I know the Dutch VOC (United East Indian Company), World´s first reigning Multinational. Shell is born from that with still the same mentality of doing business. Ruthless and cheating. And it doesn´t care about world´s environment., it only cares about the short term money for their shareholders. So as a multinational it doesn´t take any responsibility .

[@DesignBlockIT]

You should check out the Soltaro All-in-One 2. Smaller and more powerful than both systems reviewed.

[@benjaminformaniii612]

You have talked about the ramp ups and the amount of surge it causes but did you know there are now heating and cooling system that are being made just for solar and batteries to handle those problems. If so, will you be talking about some of those systems. KZbinr Handeeman just had one installed in the home he is building himself. Of course it is not a DIY system he could do himself but the explanation of the system, how it ramps up slowly to prevent surges, how the fans continually run in a way to save money was very interesting and may be useful.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Benjamin. Yes, thank you for brining that up. You are referring to variable speed motors, which is actually what I installed at my home here. You can see more about that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKupd2mferONbtk

[@ddbear8786]

If I have such a huge powerful battery in my home (attached garage), I wouldn't want to worry about it possibly catching on fire even if there's a tiny chance. LFP is an attractive chemistry for this reason.

[@korlimservices4180]

i've been following your battery comparisons for a while now... but mu Questions remains..... which is the best one to go fully Offgrid with ? having enough solarpanels and 2 solark 12k inverters..i was wondering which battery is the best option to go FULL Offgrid .

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Korlim. I believe nano-carbon AGM is the best value for going off-grid with the Sol-Ark.

[@ryanmicro]

But lithium iron phosphate has the general advantage of high current drain without over loading the cell. Usually the biggest issue with lpo4 is that its heavy, but lets be honest here. Its not moving at home, i feel like the cheaper price and longer cycle life is a far better option for a home battery. Should also mention that the tesla power wall is water cooled so thats why they have such good battery life

[@jerryrn5571]

What’s the status about Tesla only selling their battery if you buy Tesla solar? 🤔

[@SolarSurge]

That's true. However, you can still purchase Tesla batteries through third-party installation partners like us.

[@admiral_hoshi3298]

You should use timestamps.

[@bootangy]

in uk sonnen is 3K cheaper than tesla !

[@WJSchmitt]

A few observations. The Sonnen actually costs $1K more than PW. The entire Sonnen battery weighs 348 lbs. The PW weighs 251 lbs. How often will an installer break the Sonnen down just to get smaller components, and wouldn't this also increase install costs. Finally, the Sonnen is rated for indoor use only. PW is indoor/outdoor. These are all significant differences in the two batteries that you fail to mention. It seems to me that you have a definite bias against Tesla in most of your comparison videos. But I enjoy them anyway.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the feedback. These are all valid points. I really do like the Tesla product. My main beef with them is that they have stabbed their installation partners in the back. I have some clients who have been waiting close to a year to receive their Powerwall.

[@ManfredBartz]

The Tesla battery's capacity is 10kWh if you want 10 years warranty. Tesla's warranty expires after a total energy throughput which is exactly 10kWh/day for 10 years. The warranty period reduces if you use available capacity beyond 10kWh. Similarly, Tesla warrants 3650 cycles which is exactly 1 cycle per day for 10 years. Sonnen warrants a higher total energy throughput and many more cycles. Even though the Sonnen battery has a smaller capacity it can support at least 2 cycles per day which could be handy if you have cheap electricity at night and recharge to cover the morning peak. Day time solar of course charges the batteries for "free" and both batteries should cover the energy needs of most households during the evening peak.

[@gailjeter9361]

It was stated on another KZbin Channel that Tesla no longer sells their power walls to anyone who does not have Tesla Solar Panels. The comparison is of Tesla with other power walls would not be applicable to people like myself who have had solar panels since 2015 and whose panels are not Tesla. Please compare Sonnen with Generac,

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Gail and thanks for writing in. We have Tesla Powerwall's available for add-on to existing solar systems. Please book a call and we can look at options: calendly.com/solar-surge-sales-team/solar-consultation

[@SeahawkAz]

Tesla is now only selling Power walls if you buy solar from them

[@bobqzzi]

?? Not sure this is true. I am getting solar from another company and 3 powerwalls

[@SeahawkAz]

@@bobqzzi It is very new, Tesla just recently announced. it maybe if you try to but Powerwalls directly from Tesla

[@scotthall1381]

You can buy through a Dealer, just not Tesla directly

[@bonghollywood1653]

Joe, I like your videos as you're thorough and I also know that you're running a business. But we both know that there's no documents or line item that Tesla publish that claiming that using the battery for TOU lowers the Cycle counts or it violates User Agreements. If you can link your source on where you got this information from then it would be of benefit to your viewers.

[@SolarSurge]

Sure. It's right on the first page of the warranty document. They claim you can only have 37.8MWh of usage if using the battery for anything other than solar backup and self-consumption. Assuming you use the full 13.5kWh of battery capacity each day, what would limit the warranty to 2,800 cycles. You can find the tesla powerwall warranty right here: www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall_2_ac_warranty_us_1-4.pdf

[@bonghollywood1653]

@@SolarSurge Joe this is what on my signed contract with them. "Solar self-consumption2 or time-based control3 , and backup4). Document you linked is outdated, as Warranty document from May 2017 includes time control. www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall_2_AC_Warranty_USA.pdf I also called my tech and notes that the PW does not cover is if it was powered or charged by other means such as "wind power, gas generator or secondary battery storage". this is the only time that 37.8MWh limitations applies. I can forward you the email exchange from the tesla engineer that I have.

[@SolarSurge]

@@bonghollywood1653 Ok, thank you for clarifying this. I see they added language for "time-based control." Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

I know nothing about this sort of thing so this question will probably make some people roll on the floor laughing. Is this something that can be used for off-grid applications? Like RV’s, tiny homes on wheels, and any other type of vehicle that may be used rather than the typical bricks snd sticks!

[@wobby1516]

Two guys came to my house to fit my Powerwall..

[@Top12Boardsport]

Bad idea. VTG is the way to go.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for writing in. Please explain more about the VTG...

[@Top12Boardsport]

@@SolarSurge Vehicle to Grid. I you have a car and most of the time it is parked at home for sure by in the evening and at night then that is how you solve this battery matter. Good for you and for the grid. This is the future for sure. Why buy a extra expensive power wall. ?

[@SolarSurge]

@@Top12Boardsport I like this approach. I think in 5-10 years using the electric vehicle battery to power the house will be the standard. It just makes sense.

[@Top12Boardsport]

@@SolarSurge Standard from Nissan today and will be standard 2022 from Volkswagen group. More will follow soon.

[@edhuebbe7900]

Joe, thanks for the analysis. One thing that you didn't mention is "noise." I've seen more than one Powerwall user complain about the noise from their Powerwall when it's placed in a weird spot, like near a window. Based on the specs, the Sonnen should be a lot quieter, which is my main point of interest aside from the "safer" tech. Don't know about you, but hearing that "electric rectifier sound" would make me crazy. Any thoughts?

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Ed. That's a good point. I hadn't considered that. So far., I haven't received any complains from Powerwall owners regarding the noise.

[@strykerace]

SONNEN CORE >> 68” L x 27” W x 11” D = 20196 cu inches. 348lbs. Powerwall 2 >> 45.3” L x 29.6” W X 5.75’ D = 7710 cu inches. 251lbs. Tesla is by far the better choice based on form factor and weight, imo. Space consumption especially in smaller garages should be a huge factor in decision making.

[@SolarSurge]

The powerwall is definitely more energy dense than the Sonnen.

[@mikeplonka5241]

If you already have solar, and you don't have Tesla solar panels. Tesla will not sell you a battery. Now if you don't have solar panels they'll sell you a battery, you can buy whatever panels you want.

[@RealTalkRealGrowRealLife]

why so?

[@wimversteeg7146]

jour comparison is wrong there are sonnen battery's avalibele in the capacity of 12 and 14 kw storage

[@SolarSurge]

You are referring to the older Sonnen Eco. This model is the new Sonnen Core 10kWH.

[@yyabay]

We listened mouth spuutering

[@joseclaudio1670]

China is coming strong with sodium-ion and there is 1000% more supply to make them.

[@Porsche-Ninja]

*Who's else got here searching for the Chael Sonnen' battery brawl incident?*

[@markmcconnell1374]

Anti Tesla for sure!!!!

[@Nohandle2025]

Boooo