Payne's Grey Comparison - Roman Szmal - Schmincke - Rembrandt - Holbein - Mijello

Today's video is a comparison of all my Payne's Grey Watercolors.
Materials used in this video:
Baohong Academy Watercolor Paper Cold Pressed 300gsm bit.ly/3iPHCcZ
Escoda Perla Round Size 10 bit.ly/2VOjP4t
Winsor & Newton Cotman Payne's Gray: bit.ly/3jKrk5E
Van Gogh Payne's Grey: bit.ly/3t6anap
Rembrandt Payne's Grey: bit.ly/3gnYE0f
Holbein Payne's Grey: bit.ly/3LdwHWz
Mijello Mission Gold Payne's Grey: bit.ly/3j0QAnJ
Schmincke Horadam Payne's Grey: bit.ly/3EttoHt
Schmincke Horadam Payne's Grey Bluish: bit.ly/3EttoHt
Roman Szmal Payne's Grey: bit.ly/33EENGC
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#schmincke #rembrandt #romanszmal

[@magentaindigoart]

The variety in these Payne's Greys is very interesting. Schmincke Bluish is hands down my favorite here, I also love my Payne's Grey to be bluish and cool toned. I think the Mijello looks very nice as well. I have used Cotman, Van Gogh, Rembrandt, White Nights and recently Jackson's Payne's Grey varieties. At the moment I am using a Jackson's full pan, it is rather bluish although I sometimes mix it with even more blue or Indigo. I like my Payne's Grey to be very staining as well, because sometimes I like to do the shadows first. Staining paints are quite useful for layering and value studies too.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I was surprised that the variety was so wide. I want to try some Jackson's paints in the future. They seem to be good value.

[@magentaindigoart]

@@JayNathanWatercolor yes, this seems to be the case. the tube formula seems to be a little inconsistent from color to color but I was really happy with the extruded pans formulation.

[@VickyFlint]

I am loving the Cotman one and the Holbein - to me that's what Paynes Grey should look like :)

[@johnsullivan4413]

Thanks so much, Jay. I use Winsor Newton Payne's Grey Professional grade and I have been a Payne's Grey fan for decades (mostly oil painting until about 10 years ago). My watercolor teacher strongly recommended Winsor Newton Payne's Grey. I recalled your comment about the expense of Winsor Newton in your recent WN video. I use a lot of Winsor Newton paints because they are widely available where I have lived in the United States, even at craft stores. I have not noticed that they are significantly more expensive than other popular professional grade paints here, such as Daniel Smith. M. Graham, etc. But I'll do some checking.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're very welcome. I hope to try the W&N Payne's Grey in the future. You're right that W&N are about the same price as most other top brands. When I say they're expensive I usually mean in comparison to the brands available here in Thailand. We have easy and cheap access to Rembrandt, Holbein and Mijello. W&N is usually at least twice the price.

[@stelleldir]

Cotman is my favorite, Roman Szmal my second. Thanks for the comparison!

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're welcome. Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏

[@getsomecolourinyourlifedav2478]

Wow I didn't expect to see all the different shades of grey. Thanks for sharing Jay. I do like the blue ones 👍

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching and commenting Dave 🙏😊

[@colourfulsouls]

I fell in love with Payne’s gray using the Reeves, now looking to buy and try out some other brands of this color, thanks for the video & comparison, def helps!

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

you're welcome ☺️

[@Christine_R]

Mijello's looks almost like Indigo. I guess the if you want a more blue leaning grey that is not too blue than Neutral Grey if it has to be Schmincke. I mix my own Payne's Grey if I need it for now. I have a tube of Carbon Black that I like for value studies. I used it during october where there's inktober prompt list that a lot of people do and I found it to be fun to just paint without thinking about "color placement". There's only value I only had to think where to put the mid and darkest values after painting the first wash or after painting a tree to shade it. Sepia and Indanthrone Blue are great to paint value studies, too. Actually every dark color would be good for that kind of exercise.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I have a couple of tubes of Cotman sepia that I use for value studies too ☺️

[@jannahlyon]

That was so interesting, they are all so different from each other! I have been exclusively using the Roman Szmal Payne's grey lately and love it for its deep muted blue-black hue, I feel like other Payne's Greys I have used feel more like an Indigo, so I am definitely drawn more towards the less 'blueiish' ones. Thanks for this comparison.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're very welcome. Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏

[@sararamer-dean7846]

Winsor Newton Payne's Gray is my absolute favorite. I think you would like it very much as it is a lovely blue-gray.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I think so too. Thank you for the recommendation 🙏

[@TracyIndy]

Hello Sara. So good to see you here.😍 Your input will be appreciated. My first professional purchases were Winsor and Newton. The majority of their pants are beyond outstanding but they don't have the corner on every Market. I only ever wanted a small amount of Payne's Gray because I was unsure of it so I wasn't about to invest in a full tube of Windsor and Newton. Looks like that's the thing to do. By the way, your latest painting is absolutely gorgeous. It reminded me that spring and summer are just around the corner. 🌞🌷🌞

[@starr-starr]

I also recommend WN, it’s got that blue tone you are looking for Jay. My Schmincke PG Bluish looks positively green next to the WN Paynes Grey.

[@CJCalvertArt]

I love the M Graham. I use it way more than I thought I would.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I've not tried it yet. One for the future maybe? ☺️

[@mcgeitner]

Actually have two Payne's Greys in my Palette, the Schmincke bluish one and one from Sennelier. Love both.

[@OldeLeshi]

That Payne's Grey Bluish looks amazing, definitely going to get some - I actually think it's a nicer paint to use as an indigo than any of the indigo-labeled paints I've seen.

[@nadeaner.cowley513]

Oooo I love that Holbein- I wonder if ever tube is like that or if its just a fluke from the paper or older tube...Damn now I wanna get a Holbein paynes grey to see. Such a great video! I dont usually paint with paynes gray but they are all beautiful; especially that Holbein. Thanks for sharing...much love

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I swatched it out again and it does still have that texture. Could be because it's an old tube though. I don't know.

[@cferracini]

Looking at this van gogh is my favorite but from what I have used, I like sennelier's payne's grey. I like it leaning to neutral but still kinda blue

[@CLOUDSINTHEKITCHEN]

My fave Payne's grey is Jackson's own. I heard their own brand is made by Sennelier but i cant seem to verify it. I use it in everything and everyday. It looks very much like Schminke's bluish above.

[@goat8477]

In addition to the Schmincke one I sometimes use the Lukas brand one (PBk 7 / PB 15:1 / PR 176) . It reminds me a little bit of Moon glow. It is warmer in hue and goes well in dramatic skies together with the Schmincke version.

[@keyaeriksson3631]

Interesting. I also got a favorite now.

[@shadowguard3578]

As a beginner I haven’t figured out how to use Payne’s grey. From your swatches I lean towards the bluish variety. I have a half pan of Sennelier Payne’s grey (PV19, PB15:1, PBk7) that I received in the ‘aqua mini’ 8 half pan travel set. I hardly use Payne’s grey, but I enjoy having it and swatching it!

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I've not tried the Sennelier version but I've heard good things about it.

[@shadowguard3578]

@@JayNathanWatercolor 👍👋

[@Renilou2]

I found that I only love and use Schmincke Paynes Grey Bluish and Artist grade Winser&Newton Paynes Grey. They are very comparable to each other in hue and when used in a painting one cannot tell the difference. They look the same to me. I'm spoiled by those two. I accidentally bought a regular Schmincke Paynes Grey once and was not happy. Thanks for sharing!

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

That's how I ended up with the normal Schmincke Payne's Grey too. Big mistake but I will use it up eventually.

[@NanaBeth1]

I definitely use the Van Gogh's-but I love the texture in the Holbein.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

It is nice. I want to experiment with it a bit more 😊

[@JestemGlonojadem]

I'm definitely with you when it comes to Schmincke's Payne's Grey Bluish! Including that "I wish it wasn't so expensive here" bit, haha.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Haha! 🤣

[@luneleaart]

I think you would like the winsor&newton professional version, it’s similar to schmincke's payne's grey bluish but a little cooler in hue

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I think I would like it too 😊

[@markdonovan1540]

The greys! You either love them or hate them. I have used student grade versions of Payne's grey: Art Creation (chalky), Van Gogh (smooth and covers well). I've tried Davey's Grey by Van Gogh, but it's more of a green shade - I haven't found much use for it. Then I tried Jayne's Grey by Daniel Smith - it's now my favourite grey. It's a gorgeously balanced grey, at least for my use. To get a bluish cool grey, I'll usually slip in a bit of indigo. If I want to go darker, I'll add Neutral Tint. If I want to go a bit warmer I'll add a touch Alizarin Crimson.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I do like the Jane's grey color but I'd probably just mix it myself with ultramarine and burnt sienna rather than pay Daniel Smith prices.

[@MedaHalmaciu]

Love the Holbein but it's not available in my area so I'd go for the last two. However I still have enough of the student grade ones.

[@brigitteitg]

I’ve got several Payne’s Greys, including Schmincke’s bluish version and W&N Professional, which are very similar. I like them for florals as they are more green leaning. In general I prefer a warmer to neutral Payne’s Grey, and my favourites are from Daniel Smith and Sennelier, with the latter probably my absolute favourite.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I'll have to try the Sennelier one in the future. I'll put it on the list 🤣

[@NelaDunato]

I've only used Van Gogh and Cotman, and I like the fact that both of them are very balanced cool gray colors. I think Cotman separates a bit more due to the granulating PB29, while the Van Gogh is perfectly even. Holbein looks so moody and deep, that was a nice find. If I wanted a dull blue, I'd rather just use pure indanthrone blue... These very blue mixes don't read as "gray" to me at all.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Yes you're right about the Cotman. It does separate a bit. ☺️

[@PaintinHiding]

hot and humidddd~ lovely environment for watercolour paper storage 🤣 i'm in the same boat here, hot and humid. i recently put my unused paper into a box and chucked in some silica gel packets. hope it works 5555

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Sounds like a good idea. I'm surprised my paper stayed in good condition for so long.

[@aeli999]

I like a bluer Payne's Grey too. I use Daniel Smith's Payne's Blue-Gray which is a mix of PB60 and PBk6. It's supposed to be pretty close in color to Winsor & Newton's Payne's Grey. On my monitor, it looks fairly similar to the Schmincke Payne's Grey Bluish.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I haven't tried the Daniel Smith but I'll definitely try the W&N in the future. Sounds like it's a good one

[@jennw6809]

Amazing to see the variety! The Van Gogh is so different to the others; so smooth with no texture, and so very neutral. It looks like a very nice paint but just like the Schmincke, not really a Payne's. I was intrigued to try and mix my own from Payne's original recipe which you mentioned on another video, but now that I google it I see there is disagreement about what it is he used! Maybe it's Prussian, Ochre and Madder Lake, but apparently the Payne website mentions Indigo, Raw Sienna, and Madder Lake. Heck, he could have tried many mixes during his lifetime. It's interesting the Schmincke has two phthalos, 15:6 and 15:2??? Never heard of 15:2 before. Speaking of variants of phthalo blue, I have my M. Graham phthalo blue red shade now, the 15:0. Unfortunately, the only other phthalo blue RS I have for comparison is Daniel Smith which is 15:6. To my eye, the 15:0 looks slightly greener than the 15:6. But, nowhere near as green as a phthalo blue GS. Also the M. Graham has a surprising amount of texture. I see a much smoother swatch on my DS paint. I do think M. Graham's quins and phthalos are not exactly their strong suit and they all seem a bit patchy; in the future I will probably choose another brand for those pigments. I love their granulating colors more, and they do low tinting strength colors better than anyone! I've also recently received my first Qor paints, and although their phthalos and quins are spectacularly saturated and clean, I am extremely surprised at how hard they are to control. I swatched about 16 of them, and nearly every one of my swatch cards has a backrun except the cadmiums. And for the love of god, do not order Cobalt Green from Qor. It is awful. In fact, don't order anything with low tinting strength, as the Ultramarine Violet is not impressive either. I should have gone with M. Graham for those two colors!

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I wonder why all brands put black in their mix rather than try to match the original recipe (whatever that is)?

[@jennw6809]

@@JayNathanWatercolor Yeah, I wonder that too! Going to have to try a few ways to mix it without black!

[@starr-starr]

QoR is known for being the wild child of watercolors, that’s their appeal. If you are looking for control, use them wet on dry, but they are like toddlers on a sugar high. Some of their colors are gorgeous, others are pretty disappointing.

[@ColorfullyOptimistic]

The Holbein one definitely has more blue to it when it was wet, but then when I saw Mission's I was like well nevermind, that one's blue! I do love the shift of Payne's Gray myself. When it is wet you can never judge because once it dries that's when it just shows. Personally, I like the Schmincke Bluish version and Holbein just because they have the tinge of blue I prefer

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Yes it can be very difficult to guess how much lighter the Payne's Grey is going to dry. You just have to get used to the one you have.

[@lurklingX]

my favs were the bottom right: SCH payne's grey bluish and Roman Szmal. they seemed the most like what you would expect of a payne's grey i think.

[@heelerjustheeler879]

You might like QoR's Payne's Gray. It uses the same 3 pigments as the Mijello Mission Gold but leans more toward black/gray than the Mijello does. Like a very muted dark inky blue. QoR's Indigo also uses these pigments but leans blue; it looks a lot like the Mijello Payne's.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I think I might like the QoR one too. Not sure I'll ever try it though as it's so expensive in this part of the world. Maybe I'll find a pan set going cheap one day? 🙏☺️

[@TracyIndy]

This is one of those colors that Ive been hesitant to buy for years except for a few small pans. This is soooo helpful for future purchasing. Actually, all of your comparison videos are. Thank you so much. 😆 i prefer the schmincke bluish and think you could easily add a little black if you wanted to go darker. The holbein is very interesting because of the granulation and I like the color too. Thats quite a variety in only 8 brands of Paynes Grey. 😲

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're very welcome 🙏☺️ They're all so different aren't they? 🤣 The Schmincke bluish is definitely my favourite too.

[@katriannanonduality]

do you have the mission gold indigo as well by chance?? i’m wondering if they put the “wrong” names and if their payne’s grey is really indigo and their indigo is really payne’s grey?

[@LowKey_izildura]

Oh, I`ve never tried Holbein paints, but their P.grey would be my fave from this list. I`ve found, recently, an old half pan of Schmincke`s, now I think it was Akademie range, with some leftover of beautiful deep, deep, cool greyish blue.. which I thought was P.grey bluish, so I went to buy a big tube, reading from the tube in a store that it has reddish phtalo blue pigment in it. To my disappointment, it was so green leaning greyish blue.. the one you would like)) And the small pan was definitely Indigo.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Yes the Schmincke Payne's Grey Bluish is definitely green leaning. I love all the Holbein paints I've tried. They're an excellent brand if you don't want your paint to be too active on wet paper.

[@cmumford1477]

I have three tubes of Payne's Grey. Windsor & Newton Payne's grey PB15 Pbk6 PV19 is similar to Schmincke's. It is blue black grey. M Graham PBK9 PB29 is more black blue Grey. Daniel Smith PB29 PBK9 is also black blue. My favourite is Daniel Smith... (Not a fan of phthalo mixes) Daniel Smith uses Ultramarine and Ivory Black.

[@TracyIndy]

Great info. Thanks. :)

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I'll definitely be trying the W&N in the future 🙏☺️

[@reneaclark7689]

I think the mijello and the schmincke bluish both look more like indigo than payne's grey. My payne's grey of choice is White Nights, I also like sennelier payne's grey. Both have some bluish undertone but not as much as these.

[@karonyart]

I’m using the Rembrandt Indigo instead of paynes grey. Same pigments, different ratio (PB15, PBk6), makes lovely mixes. I think you might like it:)

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I tried the Rembrandt indigo and it was pretty good. I still always come back to Payne's Grey though 😊

[@jrm2716]

The only Payne's gray I have is Qor and it came in a set I purchased. It is quite dark but has a blue tone. I don't often use it because I am in the habit of mixing complimentary colors to get my darks and I forget I have it. I might want to try the Holbein. I love Holbein paints and this one seems to granulate. Is that right? Tfs.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

It seems to granulate yes. At least it does in this swatch. I'll have to test it more to know for sure.

[@flyinghaggertys9362]

Wow I like the shade of schmincke Paynes grey bluish ! I almost got the Roman szmal but now seeing them here it's not as blue as I would hope, I'll probably skip that one

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You like your Payne's Grey to be a bit blue too? 👍👍☺️

[@flyinghaggertys9362]

I sure do! I like it as a substitute for true indigo when I need it to be lightfast. I also like indigo hues very much but some of these Payne’s greys are even better!

[@wulfseig1864]

I actually like the color of the Cotman. I don't use this color because I'd either use Indigo or mix it myself. Burnt Umber, Van Dyke, or Burnt Sienna with Ultramarine, Anthranquinone or even Cobalt Turquoise. Adjust more brown or blue to very colors. I like mixing things myself but love to see how each company defines their colors.

[@maryannprzybycien2013]

I have the W&N Cotman Payne's Gray and also Paul Rubens (professional) Payne's Grey. The Paul Rubens is definitely bluer than the Cotman. I like the option of having both. Edit: I forgot the pigment info on the Paul Rubens. PB15, PB29, PBk9

[@natlisan]

The Schmincke Payne's Gray Blueish looks more like an Indigo to me! But it's a beautiful colour.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

You're right it does. I love it! 😂

[@watercolorsbyling5104]

M. graham is the only paynes grey i use. 😅

[@rdendelacruz4332]

I like those on the upper row.... Theyre the real paynes grey shades..... On the lower row, they seems like theyre just muted blue colors for me... Ive seen a lot of paynes grey and those on the upper row is the same greys that ive seen.....

[@eli7bel142]

i quite like the da vinci payne's grey

[@norinjon3240]

I don't understand, if you prefer a deep blue why not indigo

[@awatercolourist]

The two blobs in the Schmincke Payne’s Grey Bluish look like a pair of evil eyes 😂

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

Haha they do 🤣

[@AlexYorim]

Wow, the Mjello one's so blue. Personally I like the Payne's grays that have black and ultramarine with it. So I guess Cotman and Reeves are my picks. The Roman Szmal is close to the original Payne's recipe; the black is replaced with yellow ochre. But so far, a nice mixture.

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

I wonder why no brand sticks to the original recipe? 🤔

[@AlexYorim]

@@JayNathanWatercolor Not sure either. Probably because the original red (crimson lake) that was used by Payne was fugitive.

[@P-A-X-]

Ultramarine blue + burnt sienna = best Payne’s grey

[@awatercolourist]

First!

[@hannahthufvesson]

Haha, hi! 👋

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

👏🥳

[@magentaindigoart]

you beat me again XD

[@hArtyTruffle]

Don’t like any of those. Prefer to mix my own. Fussy moo that I am 🤓

[@JayNathanWatercolor]

That's probably the best thing to do. Then you can mix it to your exact specifications. Nothing wrong with being fussy ☺️