What Happened to America’s First Megacity?

[@margis.5873]

I had the privilege of being a member of the archaeological crew at Cahokia in the summer of 1973. We were uncovering the discoloration left by the buried bases of palisade logs. What an impressive city!

[@ablanccanvas]

So jealous. 😌♥️✨🇨🇦

[@silva7493]

@@NotIdefix If writings weren't found, it doesn't mean they never existed. Per Google; "While writing is generally considered a key component of a civilization, the exact level of complexity required in a writing system, and how much weight should be given to other factors like social organization and technology, can be debated by historians." Civilization can be nuanced.

[@sumdude4281]

Thank you for your work and contribution to society.

[@RobKaiser_SQuest]

@NotIdefix where is your archaelogical experience centered?

[@VZerda]

@NotIdefix If your definition of civilization is dependent on the presence of writing, then what does civility, or the act of being civil mean? A challenging idea I’ve heard that has started to make more sense is that civilization starts with evidence of bone setting on elder skeletons, things that indicate people held on to the value of one another’s life beyond utility.

[@alexrayoalv]

My pet peeve is that artists renderings of Mississippian sites always depict the mounds as green and covered in lawn. Very anachronistic. The grass that the state parks sow everywhere is of European origin, for one thing, and according to Pauketat the mounds would have been dark colored, even black.

[@HuckleberryHim]

Yeah I don't understand that, it's like making the Mesoamerican pyramids covered in vegetation just because that's how they were found. I think it's unlikely they looked like that "in life".

[@harrisre-nee3017]

@@alexrayoalv You.just.BLEW.my.mind!!!😭🤯

[@harrisre-nee3017]

@@HuckleberryHim Excellent point! I never thought about that!👏🏿

[@alveolate]

a similar analogy exists even with the western world - people believed the greek statues were bare marble for centuries, perhaps even millennia. but they were painted in vibrant colours, which means all those plain, unadorned "reproductions" of greek statues, some of which are themselves centuries old now, were all mistaken. same goes for the pyramids of ancient egypt as well.

[@mchervino]

I think you're misconstruing, or at least exaggerating the context Pauketat said that under. He offered it as a speculation, at most. And not a very good piece of speculation, if you ask me. Pauketat often panders to the fringe of archaeology, which is fine, except people take that information as gospel. Even bare clay soils would quickly turn into a mess after rain and snow and ice affected them. The mounds would have often been mud pits. Also, grass is a perfect cap for erosion control, and this is in addition to the internal erosion control efforts found inside of some of the mounds. The truth is, nobody knows the finish of the mounds, but reason would go against them being bare - even for ceremonial reasons. There's nothing anachronistic about it. Many of the depictions were painted by Bill Iseminger, an archaeologist and, for a time, assistant manager of the site. He worked there for decades, though I don't know how long he served as assistant manager. He also authored the book, Cahokia Mounds, America's First City.

[@kevinolive]

In 1904, 16 mounds were destroyed to build out St Louis Forest Park for the World’s Fair. St Louis used to have a nick name of mound city because of all the mounds which is hard to believe given that there are is just one mound remaining on the StL side of the Mississippi

[@mariahmier9313]

💔

[@harrisre-nee3017]

Sad, but true! Also, St. Louis is still called mound city (mostly in Black professional circles). There's a business downtown on Market, off Jefferson, called "Mound City Sandwich Shop", another one on Olive called "Mound City Shelled Nuts", and the Black lawyers ⚖️ association is called the Mound City Bar Association. Also, there are actually (partially destroyed) mounds still in Forest Park! Art Hill is one!🌄😁

[@shroomzzz]

Thanks for sharing. Fun fact: this isn't even the worst thing we did to them. 😢 That road runs right through it, how many people drive over it every day without knowing the history?

[@harrisre-nee3017]

@@shroomzzz Good point!🫠

[@AlbertaGeek]

Sounds about white.

[@mchervino]

Equally impressive is Cahokia’s influence over much of the eastern woodlands, as a whole. A robust economy thrived around Cahokia that extended for 100s of miles in all directions. I live near a few prehistoric mines containing materials relished and heavily utilized by Cahokians. A fascinating ecosystem, indeed!

[@secularmonk5176]

I have pondered alternative histories where the Mississippi culture develops independently in a manner similar to the Chinese river valley cultures ... with maize rather than rice.

[@adurpandya2742]

and today, the Jones Act prevents any sort of return

[@t_ylr]

I grew up in a suburb of Atlanta and there was a small mound city called Etowah that we visited for a field trip once.

[@markpashia7067]

@@t_ylr Actually there are several mounds in that region that are still protected. It was a local area center that was heavily connected to the leaders at Cahokia. The same for Indiana and many places. Etowah was the forefathers (and mothers) of the Cherokee and others of the "civilized" tribes.

[@daniel-a-Lamanite]

Does anyone know of any evidence that Cahokians smelted metals?

[@danielsprehe]

The unfortunate part is the 4 lane highway (and random residential house) smack dab in the middle of a world heritage site.

[@Maximiliano896]

That’s sick and depraved for them to do that

[@markpashia7067]

Kind of understandable since the world heritage site is such a tiny piece of the whole picture. Would you tear down all of St. Louis City to preserve the original area of Cahokia? Some things were there before the protection happened. The protected what they could of what was left.

[@zuzuspetals6040]

The indigenous built a mound of earth, but the structures on and around the mounds did not survive unfortunately. I believe if more of the structures survived, take the Acropolis in Greece which is older than Cahokia for example, the area would have been treated differently

[@vanleeuwenhoek]

@@zuzuspetals6040 That's called 'ruin value.'

[@BethReed62]

So American.

[@MsSherrick]

Thank you for diving into Cahokia, and our misunderstandings about indigenous people here in the Americas! I moved to St Louis from Colorado 2 years ago, and have been deep diving into the topic since. My education on the history of the land I live on was so terrible, and I feel obligated to fill in those gaps as an adult. Having the opportunity to walk the mounds weekly is something I will never take for granted. Todays local news is that one of the 2 last houses remaining on the last St. Louis side mounds is being given back to the Osage people once the inhabitant dies or moves out. (she has been there 71 years!) The erasure of the mounds has devastated me, and I am delighted to hear the right thing happening, even if it is at this late date.

[@samwisegamgee8318]

I can’t believe we are leveling these beautiful mounds of dirt. What history, what beauty, what complexity in these piles of earth that have been lost.

[@joshuatree2537]

These people are not indigenous. They just came earlier than Europeans.

[@ExceptionalLibra]

I'm from Blytheville, Arkansas. My town runs along the levee for the Mississippi River. Those mounds are everywhere.

[@Eric-mf7eo]

I am an archaeology student and I participated in an excavation at this site for a month. So glad it's being given the recognition it deserves.

[@carlosrivas1629]

bunch of woke liberals are really trying to avoid calling them savages and they definitely that too.

[@intercat4907]

Eric, would you be willing to share the organization that was sponsoring the dig? Or any other tip? I want to come out from CA to volunteer and don't know where to start. Thanks.

[@Eric-mf7eo]

​@intercat4907 I apologize. I don't know if I have the resources you're looking for. I went there as part of my field work requirement for college.

[@BambiBreaker]

So do tell, they all left because they had to walk up those big hills to their houses right?

[@debries1553]

8:13 I get that it's evocative illustration, but it's weird to show horses when talking about pre-Columbus native Americans.

[@Sylkis89]

OOPSIE lol Someone clearly made a blunder and it slipped through the cracks in the QA review

[@erkmerkk2950]

DUDE I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE?!

[@praytells]

so glad someone else caught that lmao

[@FactCheckerGuy]

And a rifle.

[@NicholasPellegrino]

Yuuuup!

[@jakemoeller7850]

This path of American history was sorely lacking when I was a youngster. Amazing indigenous history!

[@samwisegamgee8318]

Probably because their greatest accomplishment was piling dirt and building max 6 story buildings in that. Compared to old world history it’s pretty lame. We end up patronizing Cahokia because it’s literally the only city above Mexico before Europeans.

[@jgreed5]

I’m from northern Ohio and I was raised learning about all kind of Native American history. We even had a statue outside which coincidentally got taken down 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@pipadoepa]

@@samwisegamgee8318 Cahokia was able to build massive structures entirely by hand, without animals, wheels, or metal tools - they had to work with the resources and technologies that were available to them at the time. Despite the limitations they were still able to create monumental works which requires advanced knowledge of engineering, soil stability, and labor organization. Cahokia was also massive, larger than many European cities at the time, and had a dense population with complex political and social hierarchy. On top of that they had extensive trade networks spanning across the continent. Your comment is reductive and such a narrow view of history, I'm kind of embarrassed for you to be honest. Also, Cahokia is 'literally' not the only pre-Colombian city above Mexico. As a matter of fact, it is part of a broader Mississippi culture that had other cities such Etowah and Moundville. Not to mention the Puebloans, the Hohokam, and The Hopewell and Adena cultures.

[@DougGrinbergs]

Excellent production, much appreciated!👍 Good info to update Wikipedia articles.

[@godisgooey]

So wonderful to see the true story of North America before European contact being told. Wonderful graphics depicting what this amazing society could have looked like.

[@sarahthelizard]

This was awesome to see about something usually left as a footnote in books.

[@25jessieg]

Our 8th grade field trip was to drive from Kansas City to STL to see this place. Didn't grasp how big of a deal this place was back then. Definitely do now.

[@eleanorligon7941]

Went there a couple years ago, it’s truly amazing. Pictures and videos don’t do it justice, walking around there it’s just mind blowing how large this city was.

[@picnicblanket6428]

absolutely

[@greentravels2850]

Interesting background and updates regarding the magnetometer surveys; exciting to see the hidden world below. I've been here once or twice on my visits to the St Louis area; there was a sense of awe and reverence while walking around. Knowing that such a huge civilization was here long before Europeans was quite impressive.

[@grantmosal5475]

The St. Louis arch should not be a national park, but Cahokia absolutely should be.

[@FluffyFluffles]

What's wrong with the arch? It's not like there's a finite number, they can both be parks.

[@grantmosal5475]

@FluffyFluffles Almost every single national park is a "park" because of natural beauty or because it's a world heritage site (like Mesa Verde). Every other man-made structure is a national monument, not a national park. Giving it a national park status would help protect Cahokia more from land developers and bring more attention to its historical significance. The arch is not rich in natural beauty and its only 60 years old. It didn't even exist when a lot of the current national parks were even dedicated as national parks.

[@FirstMrNick]

It didn't used to be a national park, it was designated in trump's first term and I remember the criticism that they didn't name it a national monument instead. If I remember right Roy blunt buried this in a bill, which we all know no one reads the bills they just lobby to get them passed without knowing the details that are in them

[@technopoptart]

@@grantmosal5475 100%

[@rocketGimbal]

It is for the federal funding though, there is a whole museum and park ground there too, not just a monument. Idrc if it is a park or monument but that is why it is like that. Like another said there is no finite limit on national parks so basically a non-issue. Cahokia would be an awesome national park too, but crucially it is also man-made lol

[@generubinaudio]

Excellent short video on a site that I have always been fascinated with. Thank you PBS.

[@theoldar]

No horses in the illustrations please!

[@alecity4877]

yeah it got me a bit ticked off at 8:14, the horses were reintroduced to the americas by Europeans, and natives who got familiarized with them and started using them are the ones depicted there, from much later after multiple cultural changes and migrations as well as societal pressures. Cahokia's conflict would have been completely horseless.

[@AB-wf8ek]

Ha! Yea that threw me off. The difference between when Native Americans adopted horse riding in the 1600s and the 1200s, would be like talking about the Renaissance and showing an illustration of someone driving a Model T.

[@charlesbranscomb8493]

​@@alecity4877horses been here Europe ain't brung shit here.. y'all think these backward ass half animal half human people who still the smallest potion of the world population really ha that much control and really was so advanced above everyone else.. really need to read books from the 14 15 16 and 17 hundreds to get the real picture we had swords horses and everything. They had. You probably think the Indians died from disease no we didn't only one percent died the rest was here some was saves and some was mixed with the Chinese India phillipino slaves and the white slaves and became a new race but still more indianthan HEATHEN

[@charlesbranscomb8493]

​@@AB-wf8ekno it's not

[@AB-wf8ek]

@charlesbranscomb8493 How so? The Model T was invented in the 1920s. If you go back 400 years, it would be the 1520s.

[@RonHammers]

I'm working on a map for "Timberborn" that is based on Cahokia.

[@FirstMrNick]

I grew up 20 min from St Louis and did not hear about this place until my mid-20s, it was not taught in k-12 school. South STL was covered in mounds which were bulldosed for houses. Ive been to the museum there and the artwork and pottery looks like aztec. I have found several quartz arrow heads walking the creeks, and I know many others who also have found a lot of them in so many places, just 1 person I know has found 1000s over the past 20 years and its spread across a very very large area west of the Mississippi, theres so many found that it makes you really question just how many used to actually live in the area? Absolutely more than they claim. Also, every year they have some people show up for the winter solstice since it lines up with monks mound. There are some very old maps that show the path of the river, it has moved a lot to where it is today, its not far from the mounds.

[@opalexent]

Why would you finding a certain number of arrowheads lead you to believe researchers estimates of the population at Cahokia are wrong? That's so illogical. There is little connection that can be drawn between the Aztecs and the people of this site. Y'all will literally get on the Internet and say anything with zero evidence or expertise. There is tons of literature on Cahokia is you're interested in educating yourself. Feeding Cahokia is a very interesting recent book, written by an expert. At the least, stop spreading misinformation ffs

[@bogtrottername7001]

Most of the "arrowheads" you & they found are most likely much older than the Mississippian culture. I own many local points but very few of them are true arrow points.

[@tyler5914]

Be smart people. ;) glad to see you on PBS!

[@isomeme]

First, that was a wonderful video. Thank you. Second, there is a terminology problem in American indigenous cultural studies which it seems important to resolve. The term "North America" is used inconsistently. Sometimes it refers to the entire continent, down to the Isthmus of Panama. Sometimes it excludes Mesoamerica, the region roughly from the valley of Mexico to the Isthmus. This leads to endless confusion. People often abbreviate "North America north of the Valley of Mexico" to "North America" without explaining that usage. I've even encountered a lot of lay people who think the Aztecs and Maya were in South America, because they've heard them dismissed from discussions of "North American" cultures so many times, Am I the only one bothered by this? Are there any plausible proposals for more intelligible terminology for this topic?

[@MajoraZ]

As somebody who follows Mesoamerican history and archeology, I'm used to people using Mesoamerica, Aridoamerica, Oasisamerica, then terms like the Pacific Northwest, Eastern Woodlands, etc as terms. Central America is often reserved for the area BELOW Mesoamerica but above South America. But as you say, technically North America extends down to Colombia/Panama, and technically even Central America as a concept would include at least parts of Mesoamerica by most definitions, etc.

[@isomeme]

@MajoraZ , exactly. It's a mess.

[@samwisegamgee8318]

This has never been an issue because jack shit happens in the area between Colombia and Mexico for 500 years. Probably why nobody has bothered to further distinguish

[@TheMikefarny]

Is nobody going to mention that to the first nation peoples living there, it isn't really any form of 'America' to many of them. Is it beyond the scope of archeology and present day Americans to use indigenous terminology for that time period?

[@isomeme]

@TheMikefarny , first nation names are very often used when they exist. However, these peoples didn't have names for specific very large regions like "mesoamerica". Words like the Nahuatl "Anahuac" , literally "place close to water" and figuratively "[our part of] the world", are too vague to be directly mapped to regions. What's more, replacing "mesoamerica" with "Anahuac" would misleadingly favor the Nahuatl name over all similar names in other indigenous languages of the region.

[@athanatic]

My father and I traveled to tons of sites like in Mexico, Egypt, and Ireland. We grew up in Iowa. It would have thrilled him to hear this story of where we were! We always revered the indigenous people of the land we ended up on.

[@mrnativesun6880]

Thank you for acknowledging the people. More Indigenous Oriented episodes.

[@almitrahopkins1873]

Agreed, cousin.

[@stevenc123]

3:58 That's some impressive driving

[@StopProject2025]

😂😂😂

[@TheKeksadler]

I think it's important to note that we do not have any definitive evidence of any modern nation directly descending from those that built Cahokia. All of those historically in the region at the point of contact were likely in the Cahokian sphere, however the city is such a crowning achievement it's very alluring to claim it as your own; I hope one day we can uncover a definitive answer, as it would be fascinating to reconstruct these people's history and rightful legacy.

[@WhichDoctor1]

British people claim heritage from stone henge. Despite there being a near total population replacement event and multiple more cultural shifts and invasions between the builders of our prehistoric monuments and now. Why hold native peoples to a higher standard? Sure, it's interesting to research the movements of people and cultures. Just like the research that shows how separated us brits are from our neolithic past. But let people claim association with the ancient monuments of their land. Specially when there are literally just a handful of centuries separating them and nearly everything else has been taken from them

[@Tijereño]

My guess is that it probably was a multicultural city complex rather than a single culture’s center of power. The city probably had multiple quarters populated by people belonging to different nations. The only known copper workshop in the Mississippian culture is in Cahokia, though the exquisite Mississippian copper plates have been found all throughout the southwest. The best analogy i can come up with off the top of my head is Nippur in ancient Sumer, which was a city which the entire Mesopotamian world was involved with

[@mchervino]

It most certainly was a melting pot of many groups/cultures/subcultures. And those people often took some of Cahokia back to the regions where they came from originally. Ties were clearly maintained. The Osage have have been dominate in asserting their claim of the site for decades now, and their pressure has clearly started to pay off for them. I'm not sure if it is right or wrong, but it is reality.

[@jeffkunce8501]

There's a serious theory (Graeber & Wengrow) suggesting that Cahokia was a tyrannical kingdom, and the people revolted to form more egalitarian forms of community (that the Europeans saw as "primitive.") It would be a bit sad that the Osage if are associating themselves with a brutal civilization that is admired by the conquerors, rather than the traditions of their more recent ancestors.

[@danmadrid8227]

@@jeffkunce8501 Maybe relax.. there's other books out there and the history is not definitive.

[@Aeyekay0]

Id be interested to know what lies under St. Louis, there mounds there too but were destroyed when the city expanded. Great video

[@KatjeKat86]

Sadly a lot of cities on midwest rivers destroyed mounds in their construction. You can even read accounts in first person letters of when the mounds were still there in most places. Once in a while they're on old maps but otherwise there's no reference to them at all now like we try to pretend they didn't exist. Which is such a shame and a sad waste of beautiful part of the history of this country.

[@picnicblanket6428]

You have to see Cahokia in real life to appreciate how huge and tall it is it’s insane

[@ninamo3523]

According to my anthropology professor, building Cahokia used up most of the Red Cedar and other lumber in the surrounding area. This made the climate much drier and impacted agriculture.

[@samwisegamgee8318]

But I thought the native Americans were perfectly in touch with nature before the evil euros came and ruined it for the whole continent!?

[@AhJodie]

Part of this system goes into Wisconsin, where I live, and Aztalan State Park is one of the bigger known mounds that has been partially preserved. Thank you for this information!

[@soad3838]

Thank you for making this episode. Such important research. As someone living in NYC, I've thought about the history of urban form on American land. This seems like the quintessential example to learn from!

[@GarretGrayCamera]

I was there two summers ago. It's one of those rare places that's really great to explore and learn about and there's not a big crowd. That could be thanks to the rather run down part of town it borders.

[@danielzhang1916]

I've been to Ocmulgee Mounds in Georgia, very similar to Cahokia

[@jigold22571]

Absolutely Wonderful.

[@SJ-um2ym]

Thank you for this episode. Can we have more like this?

[@DNS-FRANK09]

Cahokia has always astonished me

[@quakekatut8641]

New Madrid paleo earthquake records shows there was earthquake events in 1450 (within a 150 year -/+ timeframe). Very similar in magnitude of the 1811-1812 sequence. After the 1811-1812 sequence, many people left the region. Perhaps this was the case for Cahokia.

[@KatjeKat86]

The earthquake occurred about 200 years after people no longer inhabited the city in any great number.

[@kevinkeefe5826]

Great video!

[@kenster8270]

So, has it now been established that the ancient Cahokians spoke a proto-Siouan language? I know that several modern tribes whose [traditional] languages were Siouan have oral lore indicating that their original homeland was along the upper Ohio River and that they migrated or were pushed westward in pre-colonial times to the upper Mississippi River, which is where they were living when the first French explorers encountered them.

[@opalexent]

No, the video is wrong. Thank you for being a rare voice of reason in this disaster of a comment section

[@seanbeadles7421]

This is discussed in books like “Continuity and Change” by archaeologists like Robert A. Cook

[@amystalker9367]

Thanks!

[@mercderkler]

In the 60's we used to sled ride down Monks Mound and search for arrowheads.Most of the smaller mounds were covered in weeds and trees.

[@magellanicspaceclouds]

Amazing. Makes me wanna go there and check it out.

[@edithstone5367]

I have lived in the Midwest my entire life and knew nothing of this site. I thoroughly enjoyed this short clip and plan to study more about the Cahokia civilization. Thank you for such informative and intelligent reporting.

[@mikezizis3725]

wikipedia: There are multiple theories for how Native American people obtained horses from the Spanish, but early capture of stray horses during the 16th century was unlikely due to the need to simultaneously acquire the skills to ride and manage them. It is unlikely that Native people obtained horses in significant numbers to become a horse culture any earlier than 1630. From a trade center in the Santa Fe, New Mexico area, the horse spread slowly north.[27] The Comanche people were thought to be among the first tribes to obtain horses and use them successfully.[28] By 1742, there were reports by white explorers that the Crow and Blackfoot people had horses, and probably had had them for a considerable time.[27] The horse became an integral part of the lives and culture of Native Americans, especially the Plains Indians, who viewed them as a source of wealth and used them for hunting, travel, and warfare.[29]

[@kthfox]

Culture is not a museum, it is alive.

[@secularmonk5176]

And -- like the proverbial river -- culture is everchanging.

[@anonimosu7425]

Sumer :

[@randywoodley173]

There are hundreds of cities similar to Cahokia, perhaps a bit smaller or maybe some even larger, they have by and large been destroyed, grown over and are yet unrecognized.

[@AndyXx-lb4px]

Pretty amazing I've never heard of this place. Also your drone pilot gets some good shots!

[@jakobraahauge7299]

There's this "either/or" idea in many interpretations of societal decline It's either conflict or nature. It seems much fruitful to understand these declines as society and nature as intertwined, it seems odd in fact to consider society apart from environmental, and at this point time even the other way around

[@AzGd98]

How have we not learned about this in school? It would've made it a lot more interesting for sure.

[@rowanell9668]

Elementary school in Columbia Missouri we had brief lessons on it in 4th grade, not much compared to post colonial history but they at least touched on it and showed us some of those drawings. That was about 13 years ago so hopefully it’s even better now

[@samwisegamgee8318]

Because at the end of the day, it was a very small city made out of mounds of dirt. When you consider there are only about 180 days per school year to fill with so much that has happened in the world, this is barely worth mentioning. Especially considering it didn’t last very long. Tenochtitlan on the other hand…

[@uphillwalrus5164]

It doesn't really have any relevance to American history

[@ThaliaPeebles-eu7gn]

Wow, that is just plain amazing.

[@TheOzarkExplorer]

Wow! This is so different than what my wife and were told by the Park Rangers at Cahokia about 20 years ago. We mentioned that some of the artifacts there were very similar to those we saw in the Yucatan and Belize and that they must have been in touch with the Cahokians. We were told something like "their is no connection at all to any known tribes", and it was a scripted response. We pointed out some things and the Park Ranger repeated the exact same response each time and refused to even discuss it. Now, I'm going to offer that the bigger mounds there were built to be used as a place to cool off in the heat of summer after working in the crop fields. Go climb it on a summer day and you'll surely feel the cool refreshing breeze there is up there. It's akin to our "air conditioners". I brought that up with some Park Rangers when I climbed to the top of a pyramid in Guatemala and they were pretty astonished to hear that from an American. They got pretty excited because when they try to tell archaeologists from the U.S. that they don't listen. And they're really disgusted that they always assume those pyramids were used for human sacrifices. That may be true in some cases, but it is not why they were built. They were built to cool off in the Summer heat. Now, if you go to the Tulum Mayan Ruins at Cozumel you don't find any tall pyramids. If you go to the edge overlooking the ocean there is always a nice cool breeze there to cool you off. All that said, if you've not been to Cahokia do go spent some time there if you can. It is truly a National Treasure.

[@danielzhang1916]

back then, they didn't believe there was any contact, but now we know that tribes traded with others hundreds of miles away, there was an entire trade system in place

[@MajoraZ]

As somebody who follows Mesoamerican history and archeology, it is still very much the consensus that there was no direct contact between the Mississippians and Mesoamerica. Some goods were traded indirectly in A to B, B to C, C to D etc style format and may have reached that far, there's an obsidian scraper from Mexico found at Spiro Mounds in Oaklahoma for example, but the furtherest direct Mesoamerican trade and contact reached was Oasisamerican sites in Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico. Not to mention that Moundbuilding traditions go back in the Eastern US prior to the Mississippians with the Hopewell cultures from 0-500AD, and as far back as 1500BC with sites like Poverty Point, and Mesoamerica was only first developing urban civilizations at that time. Maybe there was some faint indirect influences, but if anything the similarities are likely coincidences or are pan-american motifs (like how Proto-Indo-european cultural motifs exist in cultures as far as Europe down into India)

[@TheOzarkExplorer]

@@MajoraZ Yeah, that take on this is exactly what I am referring to. One of the things the Mayans I've met told me is that your version of their history is just flat out wrong and that those who promote it have been ignoring them since they first saw those old cities. I was taught that all those Mayans died from diseases the Spaniards brought with them, but the Mayans I met there told me that too was bullshit, and since they were telling me in person I have to believe they know their history. I suggest you go listen to them instead of telling them they're all dead and don't know their own history.

[@ricodelavega4511]

@@MajoraZ maybe not trade, but maybe some went down there and saw massive cities returned and said "we can do that." I'm more likely to believe that then that vikings made it to north america in any other condition than half dead from the long passage and lack of food. If they made it here, it was to fall down on the ground and die.

[@ufonomicon]

@@MajoraZcool story bro

[@briebel2684]

There's mounds all over eastern Kansas. Otherwise relatively flat landscape, then out of nowhere a decent sized mound. Ever since I first read about Cahokia, I've wondered if they might be related in some way. Or maybe even some of them started off as hills left over from the ice ages and then modified later by native peoples. Many of the plains natives share the same language, so logically you would think they had a shared culture at some point.

[@alexvlk]

10:20 how could Cahokia whose downfall is unknown be anything for the Osage people or European? As far they know, the Osage people could have been the conquerors of the Cahokia people.

[@bob_frazier]

Exactly. It's a common false theme for any culture to lay claim on whatever is under their feet as their heritage even when they have no known connection except for being there in the present.

[@SteveRogers-v7s]

Mesa Verde was occupied until around 1300 CE, Cahokia, around 1350. Is there any research that addresses this?

[@helenaconstantine]

The archaeologists know exactly what happened to Cahokia, but they don't like to say so because it conflicts with their hippy ideology. The Cahokians ruled an empire that covered most of Missouri and southern Illinois. They ruled by terror. Every year the Cahokian army would move in a tour around the empire, kidnapping people to sacrifice (more in places showing political unrest, but some from everywhere) and then take them back to Cahokia to sacrifice (the only mount to be excavated-mound 72- revealed that the funeral of a single king at Cahokia required 150 people being murdered, including about 50 teen-aged girls to be his sex slaves in the afterlife--think he might have had any in this life?). Eventually people got tired of it and there is a burn layer across the top of the ruins showing the subject peoples rebelled and destroyed the place.

[@JeffreyGoddin]

Cahokia Mounds are the best Civ 6 tile improvement you get from city state sovereignty. Great for gold and food. Did they get it right at Firaxis?

[@paulristow3454]

Given what we know about European cities in the middle ages, Cahokia was probably a much cleaner (and more pleasant) place to live than London.

[@worfoz]

We don't know as much about Cahokia as we know abut London, so we can not know that. But in the America's, it's always a good thing to say bad things about Europeans because they should feel guilty and miserable. That's why Europe is probably a better place to live now.

[@worfoz]

@@astebbin Cahokians also had slaves, so by modern standards, they were brutal and cruel, and not very pleasant. It's interesting to learn about cultures and history, and why megacities like Cahokia do not exist anymore. In order NOT to make the same mistakes again.

[@jasonkinzie8835]

@@worfoz Good! We need to stop infantilizing Indigenous history. They had remarkable and fascinating civilizations that American kids should learn about in history class but they were not utopias. There is a history of the left, (I consider myself pretty leftwing by the way), thinking that Europeans brought all of the evils of history to the areas they colonized. Not true. And to see indigenous societies as utopian means we are not seeing them as human beings, just like ourselves.

[@ufonomicon]

@ yeah right. The new world was CLEARLY far more sophisticated than Europe was at that time. Europeans were on the verge of an extinction level event, mass epidemics, the Spanish Inquisition, and public sanitation was no bathing and pooping out of your window. The smell! The rats! DISGUSTING. And the new world were vibrant beautiful garden cities teeming with millions of citizens, masters of astronomy, medicine, and cultivating food. Astonishing science and sorcery. Like I said to you before, seek therapy and quit trolling.

[@jasonkinzie8835]

@@ufonomicon You are mentioning all of the bad things in European history and none of the good things. And you mentioned all of the good things about the pre-Columbian history of the Americas and none of the bad things. This is absurdly simplistic and black and white absolutist thinking. Makes me think you might be projecting the whole troll thing on to others.

[@alexclement7221]

8:16: Native Americans did not have horses until the Spanish brought them over in the 16th century.

[@Chiefworldplanningcommission]

Nothing last forever 😊,so enjoy life, with this " knowledge is Power and love is solution"

[@suzettehenderson9278]

Would love to see more attention given to the Adena, Hopewell and Fort Ancient monuments as well.

[@metroidklr]

I'm so glad my family members took me to Cahokia Mounds several times when I was a kid. It's an amazing and mysterious place.

[@Jesst7721]

What I find fascinating is how quickly domesticated crops developed, supernatural increase in crop size over what would seem to be an unbelievably short time scale, maize, squash, beans, nutz, wild fruit like pawpaw, blueberry, sunflower seeds and wild rice. RIght out of the ice age these folk were mining copper incredibly early from the great lakes and shipped it down on down along the Mississippi river. Facts are actually stranger than fiction, it's a rabbit hole worth going down. Haplogroup X. Crazy how a natural climate event like the little ice age lasting a few hundred years collapsed their civilization.

[@Tijereño]

It didn’t collapse it fully though. The center (or should i say centers) of power and influence shifted south. In 1539-1540 when De Soto’s expedition was moving through the southeast, they travelled through dozens of towns and cities from Florida to Tennessee to Oklahoma and found many city-states and cultures clearly related to Cahokia.

[@perfectallycromulent]

Maize was developed in a process that took a couple thousand years, one that didn't start until humans had been living in the Valley of Mexico for 10,000 years. It took 1000 years for maize to get from Mexico to Ecuador. That's not "an unbelievably short time scale."

[@heremapping4484]

​@@Tijereñowhat's more the five nations, excluding the Cherokee, alongside the Natchez and Calusa maintained clear ties to these systems all the way into the English colonial era.

[@opalexent]

​@@heremapping4484just no lmao

[@opalexent]

So much ignorance. Nuts wild fruit and berries were never domesticated here. You didn't mention several crops they did grow, like chenopod and little barley. There is so much information out there, and y'all insist on inventing shyt idgi

[@eugenewall6620]

My belief is they built the mounds to keep important buildings above the flood level. This is in the Mississippi flood plain. Along the Amazon flood plain you will find the same thing. Also in Egypt, along the Nile’s flood plain.

[@ikeekieeki]

awesome video about an amazing topic, thank you

[@LotsofWhatever]

Poverty Point in LA is also interesting. Its a World Heritage site as well, and so many have never heard of it.

[@medusianAllure]

Please take more classes on Indigenous theory and sciences. It's been a life changer for me and how I think about creating knowledge. I can't help but notice how anthropologists were the experts brought in first to talk. Why weren’t elders who carry traditional knowledge to this region framing how knowledge was being gathered? Oral traditions and the values imparted can be rich data to frame methodological frameworks. I'm not saying oral tradition is fact, but it should be the backbone for any work with cultures without writing systems.

[@technopoptart]

well it is a white-centralized show. the people who are considered experts only meet one criteria of educational background. you will notice there is also a skew of incorporating christian assumptions about what things are used for as a fairly objective "facts" as well if you go through the videos. it is the limitations of being heavily risk-adverse with what sort of narrative is put out. can't rock the boat if you stick to the hits and the accents should really tip you off on what the hits are :/ that being said as long as you take it with a bit of salt and do extra-curricular research on your own time it is pretty good for getting names and locations right

[@opalexent]

There are no remaining indigenous groups that are associated with this site. The assertion in the video that the Osage are historically connected is wrong and so easy to disprove. The Osage didn't even arrive in the area until several centuries after the peak of Cahokia, this according to historic evidence AND the oral history of the Osage. The Osage have taken on a roll as protectors of this site in the absence of the original Cahokians. Instead of making a bunch of ignorant assumptions and spreading misinformation, you can always do research

[@opalexent]

​@@technopoptartwhat the hell are you going on about? Y'all's ignorance is truly terrifying

[@danielzhang1916]

I think they were brought in because they worked at the site, not just because they are experts

[@JoeBeaudette]

As a staunch conservative French Canadian from Manitoba and now living in Vancouver, I really appreciate the narrative of looking to the future for the indigenous. Many very wrong things happened, yes, but there is too much emphasis on punishing the descendants of the perpetrators rather than lifting up the descendants of the victims. None of us alive today participated in the atrocities and no one in their right mind would seek to revisit those horrible sorrows other than in brief ceremony in order to bring honour to the forsaken, abused and fallen. Sure, there may be some outliers to that in a handful of elderly nuns who administered the residential schools, but they’re no longer a part of the story and the unfortunate events that occurred at those sites need to be left in the past. Dwelling on it only hurts people. We must not fall prey to those who would divide us in their pursuit to over-emphasize or even outright fabricate stories for the sake of social capital or political power. I’m looking at you, Justin Trudeau. You repugnant hypocrite. I’m done hearing about alleged burial sites. Get some shovels and show me some bones, otherwise, shut up because I have to assume you’re lying. If it’s so serious then where the hell is the follow-through? I digress. We’re all brothers and sisters as children of God. Today. Let us move together as such.

[@sosofishy8523]

So, Cahokia… stood the test of time. :) Also, this makes Civ7’s cultural transitions through the eras make so much more sense.

[@iMaterials]

that’s pretty awesome! Very close to what Sambaquis are for Brazilians! I’d love to hear more

[@unyieldingcreek1]

I love the mystery and I am glad that the Europeans for the most part chose to leave it alone during Manifest Destiny.

[@aburdett85]

@5:07 "one of the largest pre-contact cities in the world". Based on what metric?? We have MASSIVE pre-contact cities being discovered in South American that would put a population of 15,000 to shame (some estimates ranging from 3M - 20M).

[@jamesgray9950]

They qualified it by saying "North of Mexico".

[@LaCat77]

Great content.

[@tomparker9001]

Maybe it was an island complex for when the river flooded.

[@justin908]

Cities were never meant to be truly permanent, and Cahokia is a great testament to that notion

[@georgenaugles5039]

I would like to see additional documentaries about this that show more artifacts

[@roncarroll4136]

I found the topic to be very engaging and related to historical events or figures, making it particularly intriguing to learn about. Intriguing involved details about past events, people, or cultures that sparked your curiosity. Historical context: The discussion likely provided background information about the time period and its significance. Engaging delivery: The way the information was presented, whether through storytelling, interesting facts, or vivid descriptions, contributed to your fascination. THANKS PBS

[@adamesmith]

I had no idea. This is awesome

[@Myself-yf5do]

Dreams in mythology would be a good topic for Fate and Fabled. Now that they've done trees, the sun, cats, music, and tricksters, they should do dreams. I've commented this multiple times, and it still hasn't happened. Do they not read the comments or something? If not, how can we petition them to make the content we want to see?

[@dustychimes148]

“It was all about praying” yeah sure. It was all about hierarchy just like all societies.

[@videovoer8130]

Cahokia is an important reminder that indigenous people thrived in so called North America before the colonisation and genocide and they'll thrive again

[@samwisegamgee8318]

If you consider piles of dirt and maximum 6 story buildings “thriving” then I got news for you: even the darkest and most backwards parts of the European dark ages had larger cities. Cahokia was literally the only city north of Mexico to ever exist before Europeans arrived. And it died out rather quickly, likely due to mismanagement of natural resources or a rival community wiping them out

[@OutHereOnTheFlats]

Genocide was happening in north america long before and after europeans got here. The Iroquois come to mind as one.

[@uphillwalrus5164]

The "native" representative they got for this video has white skin and green eyes. Amerindians are just mestizos now

[@litsci4690]

What a goofball, ignorant, romanticized comment. Colonization and genocide are as old as humanity.

[@ChadEAult]

I grew up just north of there. Our 3rd grade field trip was to Dickson Mounds which is northeast of Cahokia. I believe it might predate Cahokia. It was close to the Illinois River. That area is literally one of the most fertile areas in the world. It’s geographically on a major trade route of several rivers. The Great Lakes to the North, the Missouri to the west, the Ohio River valley to the East. The Mississippi to the south. It’s a great location. I am not sure why it declined; was it disease, weather related, civil strife, earthquakes, superstition, war. I don’t know, which makes it very interesting because of the shear effort it took to construct such a special place is hard to imagine. To leave this city there had to be something major happen.

[@jasonremy1627]

Ooh. Joe from Be Smart is hosting this now. Very cool!

[@DrBunnyMedicinal]

Here's one bit of basic feedback: It would be considerate to refer to dates as being CE (Common Era) rather than the 100% Christian-centric AD (Anno Domini). This applies even more so than many of this channels videos, in otherwise excellent examples like this one that are heavily focused on indigenous peoples, their cultures and their histories.

[@TheDanEdwards]

All too common it is that PBS shows attempt to be too traditional, to avoid PBS being labeled "leftist" by the atavists among the population.

[@ricaard6959]

Ou current Callender was created by Christian monks, it would be hypocritical to change the convention just because you don't like Christianity. Edit: it would also be unscientific because the convention is a way of crediting the people that created the calender that we use.

[@DrBunnyMedicinal]

@@ricaard6959 Christians are a minority world-wide, and it's long past time that we all accepted that fact and quit the constant kow-towing to their delicate sensibilities. World history happened before Christianity came along, it will go on happening well after they are gone, and it happens today both in the limited world that some people calling themselves 'christians like to limit themselves to and outside of that small and insular world. If something as simple and basic as a request that we acknowledge these facts and show respect to everyone that ISN'T is enough to rustle someone's jimmies, they'd have to be a very delicate little snowflake indeed.

[@sammy8796]

Fun seeing professor Henry in this video. His classes were good.

[@elmoworld850]

Thank you for this documentary

[@shirleywilliams2843]

I've been been there. That place is MAGIC!

[@Ali_forward]

Fantastic video

[@LadyYoop]

So well done. Thank you!

[@jacobweinstock2180]

Born and raised in St. Louis MO, why the hell I never here about this stuff (I know why) but I want more of this in my city gossip

[@SpanishEclectic]

So glad you are disseminating information on this wonderful site, and the history of its people. The comparison timelines with what was happening in Europe should help people understand how wrong the colonizers were regarding the native people. As a child I was fascinated with Native American culture, and as an adult I've read quite a bit. The differences between the beliefs and organization of tribal groups in all parts of the U.S. (in fact, all of North and South America) are multitude, and fascinating. Where I am, in the Southwest, there are Pueblo ruins as well. This was a great overview to introduce people to Cahokia.

[@MajoraZ]

Glad to see Cahokia covered, tho not sure why it's on Terra and not other PBS Channels? Also I follow Mesoamerican (Aztec, etc) archeology, and wanted to clarify/correct some stuff: 2:07 this map is kinda misleading, in that there is only one text label for "Aztec Territories", but only the lighter green areas were the "Aztec Empire": the darker green ones represent other parts of Mesoamerican within the dominion of other city-states, kingdoms, and empires. Even calling the lighter green area "Aztec territories" is a bit misleading, I would have just put "Aztec Empire" or "Aztec conquests": The Mexica of Tenochtitlan (and other powerful "Aztec" cities in the Valley of Mexico, today Mexico City) did not directly govern or colonize much of the states they conquered, which continued to still govern themselves and retained their existing rulers. Cahokia also was probably not the largest city north of the Valley of Mexico: This is for a few reasons. Firstly, as I understand it, population estimates of Cahokia range from 10,000 to 40,000, with 20k being a common figure. The 10k estimate is probably too low, but I believe even the 20k figure includes not just the city center depicted in much of the art and 3d renders in this video, but wider suburbs around that area. That's not nessacarily a wrong way to total it up, in fact Mesoamerican urban population estimates often have to grapple with where to draw the line on where a city ends and adjacent suburbs or or towns begin too, but if we're including the suburbs around the city centers then there's probably other Mesoamerican cities north of the Valley of Mexico with over 20,000, and certainly over 10,000 people. I'm not sure I can think of a SPECIFIC example, admittedly, at least with a broader definition of the Valley of Mexico (EX including the Teotihuacan subvalley as part of it, Teotihuacan itself was also far from the urban metropolis it used to be in its heyday by Cahokia's time), but if you're going with a narrower definition of the Valley's limits, then Tzintzuntzan just barely qualifies, as it is just slightly north (but hundreds of kilometers to the west, in what's Michoacán today) of one of the Valley's arguably northern limits. Tzintzuntzan was the capital of the Purepecha Empire, the third largest state in the Americas as of contact after the Inca and Aztec Empires, and actually defeated a major attempted Aztec invasion. By most estimates Tzintzuntzan had 30,000 people, and I suspect, though I'm not sure, that that estimate is excluding some of the surrounding suburbs. However, there's definitively estimates or ways to define city limits which would put Cahokia larger then it or probably other contenders in Mesoamerica, if only because the Valley of Mexico was actually pretty far north by Mesoamerican standards aside from West Mexican sites, and a lot of the other big Mesoamerican cities larger then Cahokia would have been inside of or to the south of the Valley of Mexico One more set of corrections: 2:16 , 3:15, etc Cahokia and Monk's Mound also would not have been the largest settlement/monument in North America (and certainly not all of the Americas for the latter), for two reasons: Technically Mexico and Mesoamerica *is* in North America, so again, many Mesoamerican sites and monuments would have rivaled or exceeded Cahokia and Monk's mounds size (vs the 5-6 sqkm figure given for Cahokia, say Tenochtitlan had 13.5sqkm with 200,000 denizens, Teotihuacan had 19, arguably 37sqkm, with 100,000, among many others, while the Great Pyramid of Cholula, the Tonina Acropolis/pyramid, the La Danta Acropolis/pyramid the Pyramid of the Sun etc were all larger, the Cholula pyramid being the single largest monument by volume in the world). Next, I have heard there are also some other Mississippian sites within the same size range as Cahokia, but I admittedly don't know their location or their names off the top of my head. Maybe I'll have a friend of mine who knows more about the Mississippians give me some input here and I'll edit my comment accordingly. A specific example I do recall is that some researchers believe that there was another Cahokia sized settlement nearby under Saint Louis's current urban area across the river from Cahokia. Also, regarding the point of Cahokia's denizens not just vanishing: Many other Mississippian sites continued after Cahokia's fall, and even as of Spanish contact, explorers like Hernando de Soto came across Mississippian towns and got involved in their wars. The Natchez people even continued to build towns with wooden walls and large mounds into the 18th century! Sorry if this all comes off as kinda pedantic or turning it into a contest: obviously Cahokia is an amazing and very cool site, and the Mississippian (as well as prior Moundbuilder cultures such as the Hopewell, Poverty Point etc, and other cultures in what's now the US) in general are super interesting as well, I just worried some how Mesoamerica was presented or Cahokia was as a singularly huge exception kinda discredits other parts of the Americas a bit!

[@mchervino]

I have always heard its size referred to as 6 square miles, not kilometers (about 3.5 square miles of Cahokia is currently owned by the state of Illinois, the rest resides on private properties). I think that guy misspoke. Maybe he was meaning their survey covered 6 square kilometers? The population estimates suggested is for those who resided within that 6 square mile boundary. I think it is pretty clear cut where one major settlement ended and another began. The areas in between weren't that densely populated as to obscure city boundaries. Still, hopefully the featured data gathered here will help to better drill down the population and boundaries. Nothing about the STL mounds was larger than Cahokia. No clue where you got information suggesting that. The STL site had around 20 mounds, and the ESTL site had 40-50. Cahokia was so large, you could fit the next 3 largest Mississippian mound centers within its boundaries, and still have room to spare. It is pretty typical to boast and inflate a little when showcasing a site like this. I'm sure the same has been done with the Mesoamerican sites too. Given how underrated and undervalued Cahokia is, I see it as a forgivable flaw attempting to draw attention to our own remarkable backyard.

[@walker1812]

Wish the video had been more about Cahokia and less about some of their possible descendants a thousand years later. Video was too short to have two different narratives.

[@kemikev]

There’s plenty of information available on KZbin and the internet

[@closertohome-b7m]

Anything to do with prehistoric America is great!!!1. Keep it coming

[@sandin6689]

Most impressive place. Visited there in the mid 90s.

[@davidponseigo8811]

On my property in North Louisiana was a very large Caddo Indian village and we have recently found multiple different mounds , tools and weapons. We even found Spanish relics that we believe are from the DeSoto expedition which camped with the Caddo.

[@gluonjck63]

Make Cahokia a National Monument like Colorado National Monument or Devils Tower. It is more important than we know.

[@johnreinking8742]

If the highest population estimates are correct, Cahokia was larger than any subsequent city in the United States until the 1780s, when Philadelphia's population grew beyond 40,000.

[@TG-wf6ln]

This was really great- I had no idea this existed before today!

[@TheChrisLouis]

I am very far removed from being in school. My only question is... Why did we never learn about this back then?

[@cripplermaximus]

I’ve gone to Chichen Itza and Teotihuacan and it was amazing. But, I was in St Louis visiting a friend and had no idea this was there and I regret not checking it out. Gonna schedule a trip out there again, lol.