Peltier Coolers - Can they cool a car? How Efficient Are They?

[@yourbadger5486]

I've stayed up past 4 am watching videos that are years old while being a half hour long with useless content. Finally came across yours and you showed me exactly what information I was looking for

[@slopoke22]

I started messing around with this tech about 10 years ago and i thought of so many different things to use these for! I still think of trying to use them all the time to this day.

[@MrPizzaman09]

I think cooling systems are often measured in cooling power / power input. For heat pumps, sometimes this can be 300-500%, or even 3000% if you're pumping heat to a very cold "hot side" like my house's geothermal system when the AC is on. In this case I think your cooling power in 20 minutes was about 15 BTU's. You power input was 85W * 20 min * 60s = 96.7 BTU's. So efficiency would be 15/96.7 or 15.5% average for the first 20 minutes. That value is probably higher for the first few minutes before the conduction through the chip stabilizes with your cooling power. I have a similar personal interest in playing with Peltier coolers, so every 5 years I pull the 5 of them I have out and try to make some power. I heated and cooled two ~30 lbs aluminum cylinders and placed 4 of the chips in series between the two chunks of metal. The best I could do was 3 or 4 volts, which wasn't enough to even charge a li-ion battery. Maybe someday I'll make a solar concentrator and have the cold side in a running stream to do this again, but it's certainly not easy. In college I made a cooled seat for a Supermileage car. It actually worked pretty good in terms of dropping the water temp be 10-15F while using ~150 watts between the chip and a very powerful 120mm computer fan.

[@brlinf06398]

I wish there was a device that can measure the cooling power directly in watts or BTU instead of needing to compare the temperature and getting trash results

[@austinmaxi]

There is a bloke on KZbin by the name of David McLuckie, who has integrated TEGs into a 12v diesel air heater, it produces enough electricity to power the heater's blower fan and fuel pump to run its self, and trickle charge the battery ! Its well worth a look. There's also potential to harvest more power from exhaust heat that's wasted atm.

[@williamzoom]

I fell down the rabbit hole of these things years back when I discovered the Biolite & needed to know how it worked!

[@PatClevenger]

I have played with those!!!!! There were really fun back when I used to Overclock CPUs. I am talking like Pentium 2 so old stuff. I bet they be good enough to cool your Speed controllers. Like have them already chilled before you turn them on try thing.

[@thestateofreal2533]

I tried this in a similar experiment with plans of running distilled water through my heater core (had to pull the AC to fit my go fast parts). I put the heat sinks on the hot side with fans and the cooler on the cold side running water with a small pump. I ran 12v 30amp? from my power supply and what I learned was the hot side has to stay piping hot for you to keep the cold side cold. As soon as the fans kicked on on the hot side, the cold side temps began to rise (so air cooling is a no go). The other challenge is as soon as you cut power, the heat sinks transfer all that heat into your cool fluid very quickly.

[@kc5sdy]

I have always had the idea of using a setup similar to supply hot or cold water to a seat cover with a hose running through it. Dissipating the heat when it is cooling the water has always been my biggest issue with the design I have had in my head.

[@AlexLTDLX]

That would be an ideal use for these. I had the same thought.

[@kc5sdy]

@@AlexLTDLX Well, good. I am glad I am not the only one that has thought about that. With that, either I am not nuts or not the only one that is. :-)

[@Winder-hb1cn]

The cooling effect was very limited in your setup because you where dumping all the heat into just a limited amount of water. Try the experiment again and dissipate the hot side to the air in the room. The hot side would stay close to room temperature and the cold side would get much cooler.

[@godzuki2099]

There are peltier modules meant to produce electricity from heat, those are "significantly" more efficient and barely more expensive than the normal more common ones, also keeping the heat under control is actually pretty easy with chinese pc radiators and fans, just make it at least 240mm and 2x fans per peltier

[@dylandesmond]

You can use it with antifreeze to cool down an ice box for water to air intercooler. It heats up fast, for daily use it's pointless, but for 1/4 mile you can get some gains

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

Those little controllers are awesome. I used the high amp pwm controller for methanol pulsed injectors on my old diesel. The little gadget projects are cool.

[@denisohbrien]

As in straight methanol on a proper fuel system , added to a diesel? How did it work out? I've used water meth to great effect on petrols but I have a diesel engine project right now that's fuel limited,so considering straight methanol rather than trying to get the common rail system to do what I need and don't want to use straight meth in a water meth kit, feels unsafe.

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

@@denisohbrien I drilled 6 holes in the intake, welded on injector bungs. I use 6 flex fuel gm injectors. I run a second tank filled with 50/50mix. Over 1190* the controller turns on and starts injecting right down the runners. Engine is a dt466 international.

[@denisohbrien]

@@Go4BrokeOffroad Thankyou, was hoping you were running straight methanol, thats what I want to try and just cant find any info of folks doing it but there must be some.

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

@@denisohbrien I have a few times. Usually when I'm at an event. For everyday use, it's 50/50. Methanol is highly corrosive I don't want to ruin my stuff over time. My monster truck runs 100% m1. I go through about 20 gallons in 6 minutes.

[@denisohbrien]

Again , thankyou! . this is for a bmw M57 (3.0 diesel) ive built compounds for, Quite a different use case to yours :)

[@jermainedavis8783]

Any ideas of how you'd use this concept to cool a small SLA battery?

[@adairjanney7109]

but can they cool the coolant in the engine like put in the pipe somewhere

[@ShowMeThePictures]

You never said how this compares to a normal AC? What is the efficient of a normal AC or what is the EER of this.

[@au1317]

Would be cool to see these on an intake setup seeing as how they can get sub-ambient. Almost definitely not practical in an actual car, but still really cool

[@802Garage]

So basically your butt can help charge your alternator.

[@reed-young]

A more useful device for you might be a thermoelectric generator, which also works on the Peltier principle, but to produce a voltage when the plates are at different temps. So maybe a few of those with their hot sides stuck to the bottom of your muffler and passively cooled with outside air could be wired to some fans, if any of the electronics in your trunk need cooling.

[@itsa_playz02]

Hello, Alex. Looking all over the web to find a basic thermoelectric setup (capable of heating and cooling) for a school experiment. Love this video but sadly, I'm not an expert so I have trouble. What is bare minimum needed to conduct this kind of experiment? Thanks.

[@AlexLTDLX]

You just need two peltier modules, a couple of water cooling blocks and a couple pumps, tanks (I used cat treat containers) and some hoses. Amazon carries everything you'd need.

[@der_pinguin44]

Hey, I did this with my Isuzu I-Mark!

[@SudipBagbazar]

I am trying to set up a peltier 12706, supplying power from a 12 Volt, 6 Amp transformer rectifying & filtering it into 12 V DC. At first the heat sinks on the hot side is heating up and cold side is cooling respectively. A few minutes later the cold side is also heating up. How to solve this?

[@AlexLTDLX]

You need to make sure that both sides are adequately cooled - which it why I have two separate water tanks. Given the inefficiency of the peltier units themselves, the hot side really needs a lot more cooling.

[@carwerks101]

Ive been doing a bunch of research on these to make a helmet blower to blow some cooler air than ambient

[@AlexLTDLX]

Look into seat heaters/coolers - I know the ones in my Expedition use peltier devices to do the job.

[@rvwithbob]

what was the manufactures temperature delta for the specific peltier you used? also a heat sink on the hot side would make a world of difference

[@AlexLTDLX]

No clue - they came from Amazon. And they did have water cooled heatsinks on both sides - that's how the water warmed up in the one container.

[@rvwithbob]

@@AlexLTDLX different peltier modules have different temp deltas. some as low as 20 degrees and some as high as 80 or higher. The colder you get the hot side the lower to cold side. if the delta was 20 degrees and the hot side equals 50 the the cold would only get to 30. but using the same device if you got the hot side to 30 degrees then the cold side would be 10 degrees. If you still have them keep tossing ice in the hot water side and the cold side will get even colder. It's a fun experiment. I'm going to use them to extract water from the air. Getting the cold side to frost up then defrost it to liquid.

[@JCnordic2983]

So you need a larger heat sync on the hit side

[@itstrysten]

underrated video and production! i disagree that your imperial units are convenient in this case. the energy should and could be measured in watts, with parenthetical dispensation for the nostalgic

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks!

[@rogerpha1398]

Could a solar panel provide enough power to charge a peltier cooler to cool itself for more efficiency and still provide charge? all solid state charging and cooling? I doubt it, but we will never know unless we connect the red and black wires.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Possibly. I'd have to test it once I get everything moved down to the new place.

[@JD_Mortal]

These actually have an ideal voltage. A 12v unit is nearly as effective when run at 9v and lower amps. You can also stack units to get a greater temp difference. I think the biggest potential flaw in the test is the use of uncompressed water, vs compressed freon or antifreeze. Assuming the water blocks are also poorly channeled. The resonant heat or cooling will create a negating resistance. I suggest using two CPU water coolers with antifreeze fluid. It's not exactly water, but the same principle applies to BTUs. Now, on the reverse... Compared to a standard "equal wattage heating element", how efficient is a peltier cooler, as a heater? I believe this is a totally overlooked function. It should be more efficient, as it is acting as a heat pump plus a thermal resistor, at once. Trying both side by side and stacked. These would be great for cooling gas to get more power and fuel economy. Fuel flows slow and is under pressure, before the injectors. Yes, the AC would be more efficient, but less functional, as it can't get to below freezing temps. The AC would be great for cooling air intake, for boosted power though. I'm not sure why they don't use cabin air for an engines intake, when the AC is on.

[@harshitrajsud9hridn]

What if water freeze in aluminium water block ? If pump fails

[@monstercameron]

do you use your sigma fp for this shot?

[@AlexLTDLX]

If you're talking about the actual test, then yes. Pretty astute of you to pick up on that. The talking hand stuff at the beginning was shot on an a6300 Sony. What gave it away?

[@monstercameron]

@@AlexLTDLX I remember that you said you shot on a sigma FP months/years ago and after a while it starts get easier picking out video from large sensor cameras compared to what I use, which is a DJI pocket 3

[@whydontyouaskme]

Can you make a realistic test to make 85-90 degree heat, reach decent temperatures in a car. At least 5 to 10 degrees lower is worth it in my scenario I’m trying to protect my lifepo4, dashcam, interior, etc, from heat. I’m already using ceramic tint and window covers. But heat is still baking my interior.

[@AlexLTDLX]

These probably wouldn't get you there, at least not in any reasonable quantity, unfortunately.

[@jsomething2]

I seem to remember a camping one where you could start a fire in this can thing and they heat from it would slowly charge your sell phone.

[@toxomanrod]

Biolite!

[@dragan3290]

I tried this but very inefficient! 12 volts by 10 amp? 1 module. Ieven modified a small thermoelectric fridge.

[@jongun78]

there was a video of a guy that stacked different sized peltier devices to get more efficiency

[@greggv8]

I've been thinking about using these with an air conditioning condenser and the heater core in a 1982 standard cab pickup that has no AC. Hot side loop would run through the condenser and cold side through the heater core. I'd use some valves to connect switch the heater core between the engine and peltier. I've read that a peltier's best efficiency in heat moved per unit of electricity input is at around 50% of the TEC module's rated power. Google 8 peltier cooler and you'll find many places selling tge same unit with heat sinks in the middle with a fan on one end and a long, blue water block on each side. Most have a crazy cheap price. Buy two to get a second pair of water blocks to sandwich in the center for cold. Put the hot side out with the heat sinks to pull more heat from the outer water blocks. Build a duct to bring air from outside the engine compartment over the heat sinks. Is there a source for the peltiers optimized for converting temperature differential to electricity? A DIY power generator that taps exhaust heat after the catalytic converter could prove some power to run a TEC air cooler. How much exhaust heat from a 350 cubic inch V8 could be converted to electricity?

[@AlexLTDLX]

To answer your last question first - not enough to be worth it. Overall, these things really wouldn't work for cooling the cabin of a car. However, for spot cooling (like cooled seats, for example) - they would work fine. In fact, OEMs use these for that purpose. I also don't think you're likely to get anywhere close to 50% efficiency. But I'm sure, in time, the technology will improve. But for now, you're much better off with a compressor-based unit.

[@greggv8]

@@AlexLTDLX best efficiency at 50% of their rated power, not 50% efficiency

[@RollingThunder85]

I just commented on doing this your a month ahead of me great scotts if only you had 1.21 jigawatts

[@NamaBaruSH]

Heat energy is the most hard to get rid of energy and always generated as byproduct and wasting other energy. If there any way to convert heat enery into other energy without generating more heat, until 0 heat left.

[@PeterMilanovski]

Re run the exact experiment but lower the voltage to 20V instead.... You should get better performance results running the Peltier device below it's 12V max voltage rating.... Hek! You might even get a better efficiency rating than what you got here! I have run them at 6V and they worked much better than at 12V... 24V id definitely too high!

[@NCMATT]

Cool 😎 🆒️ 😎 for real

[@valyPrecop]

I'm at least 1 year late to this, but here are my 50 cents on cooling performance. Good little experiment but doesn't take into account heat capacity of water vs air (water is at least 4x higher than air) nor the efficiency of heat transfer from source to target (water is at least 25x times faster than air). This is the reason "water cooling" is still practical in computers.

[@drewlarson65]

There's _way_ more imperial-only use cases. pipe threads, air flow, degrees of angle, air and naval navigation and more. Next your in a plane, ask yourself what height, speed, and what the air around you is doing, and its all in thousands of feet, knots, CFM, PSI, BTU etc. Also, fractions are overpowered if you're not a bonobo. fuck base 10: bases 12, 60, and 360 are way easier to intuit math in sans logarithms.

[@ur_quainmaster7901]

I've always thought peltier modules were best as heating elements. The trick is to use water blocks as you are, and steal heat from outside just like some mini splits. All that energy wasted when trying to cool something is just as efficient as a space heater and the heat pumping action is just gravy. You can get as fancy as you like, coupling to a solar oven, swimming pool or any thing else that makes sense.

[@stradcar1]

A lot of useful data and conversions but, after watching countless videos none so far shows how to use the hot side for cooling.

[@RollingThunder85]

Solar charging ev batteries rewired to 12v to power volute cooled system

[@dylandesmond]

They're around 5% efficient

[@omnigeddon]

Gotta use rare metals for.. true usage lol…