Pentium MMX and SetMul for smooth Retro PC Gaming

[@Checker201lol]

Can we please take a moment to appreciate how much work that had to be? Wow:D thanks!

[@mytube9182]

I once used Pentium MMX 133 MHz back in 1995. It was the best CPU of all time for overclocking. I overclocked it to 200 MHz and been using it that way in a couple of years so smooth never have any problem.

[@Caleb-fv5fp]

MMX was released in 1997 I think it was just the regular Pentium

[@flightsimdeskuk]

​@Caleb-fv5fp The MMX overclocks similarly well. My 233Mhz CPU runs at 300Mhz on a super socket 7 board. It ran well at stock voltage with very occasional crashing but at 2.9 volts its been 100% stable.

[@senesiano]

At first I wasn't sure if the comparisons were about speeding up or slowing down the CPU. Now I get it is all about controlling how slow you want the CPU to go. It gives a whole new set of options for compatibility with older DOS games. I can think for example that this would work great with a game like Life & Death 1. Thanks Phil!

[@aeros5678]

Creating a batch file with those commands simplified would be a good command line option. Thank you for another wonderful video.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yup that's a good idea :D You could just name as a percentage. Like 10.bat and 27.bat

[@Motolav]

@@philscomputerlab or name them being relative to a similar CPU performance

[@philscomputerlab]

Motolav I don't recommend that, as every system will behave quite differently (e.g. MMX 133 vs 233 will give totally different speeds). So I recommend relative percentages as they are more useful.

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@greypatch8855]

I remember back in 2003, I was repairing a friends pc, had an old mmx cpu. Loaded its ram slots and other cards, made xp run nicely

[@quantumfoam42]

Super Socket 7 boards are crazy expensive now, so this seems like an excellent option for building a DOS-focused machine. I had already been thinking about building a Socket 7 Pentium MMX, but now I want to do it even more knowing that I could slow things down for older games. Fantastic video, and my thanks to the awesome people at the Vogons forum who made these tools!

[@philscomputerlab]

Thanks man! I'm working on a follow up, looking into speeds at also 166, 200 and 233 to get the whole picture.

[@ravengaming4143]

P200 MMX, 64 MB RAM, 3dfx Voodoo Graphics, S3 Virge DX (for 2D), SoundBlaster AWE64, 20 GB HDD, some fast CD-ROM with a floppy drive, Windows 95 and you basically have the best possible 1996 PC. All that's left is some authentic 15 inch CRT screen and beige case and keyboard/ball mouse and several (boxed) classic PC games.

[@kargaroc386]

I have an old Pentium MMX PC that I bought from an ebay seller just for the case (since I was building a Pentium 3 computer at the time). The CPU was originally a K6 350AFR, but I have an old Pentium MMX 200 or 233 that I literally found stuffed in the back of a desk cabinet in 5th grade, and it works fine. I might actually be able to try this!

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@mattpierce5009]

SETMUL is one of the coolest programs ever written. Quite a few platforms get some benefit from using it. Thanks for another great video Phil, I had no idea the Pentium MMX could be so finely tuned. I love learning new stuff about things I've been working with for 20+ years!

[@SaraMorgan-ym6ue]

he's going to play with his joystick

[@osgrov]

Oh that's very cool, I didn't know this. Makes a Pentium MMX much more interesing as a do-it-all DOS-box. If only I could find a decently priced mobo I can build one.. Still hunting a working board. :) Top video, this is the kind of stuff I love to see!

[@32mlucas]

You can further enhance this capability with some toggle switches allowing control of FSB and multiplier.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yup

[@DeadlyGamingLV]

I will try this on my Pentium MMX 166MHz build tonight. I have two P MMX 166 builds so maybe both of them. It's good to see Wing Commander being played. Classic! Thank you for another great video Phil! :)

[@philscomputerlab]

Yea man, do let us know how you go! With the MMX 166 you should get somewhat higher numbers. If you have the time, maybe you fancy running all 16 combinations with 3DBENCH 1.0 or Doom (Low Details) from the DOSBENCH pack?

[@DeadlyGamingLV]

That would be interesting to test out. When I have the time I will give it a shot.

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@GabrielZ666]

Amazing video Phil, as always! This is why I love Socket 7 builds, they are incredibly versatile. This is my current retro build, focused mainly between '96 and '98: Pentium I 233 MMX Soyo SY-5BT 4x16 MB EDO SIMM RAM S3 Virge/DX 4MB PCI SoundBlaster AWE64 ISA Quantum Fireball 6,4GB HDD I'm planning to add a Voodoo2 12 MB PCI in the future to enjoy some nice 3D acceleration!

[@philscomputerlab]

Very nice. Indeed, Socket 7 is such a flexible platform :)

[@CaptainNedD]

Yes! I'm in the process of building a Pentium 233 MMX as a 486 equivalent machine as well after watching Phil's video on a 4 in 1 machine. I've bought on eBay an AOpen MX59 Pro II (VIA MVP4 chipset) and an MSI MS-5169 (Aladdin V chipset). That way I get a standard ATX motherboard with PS2 connectors but get to run pure DOS. What's interesting is how suitable the MX59 Pro II (which has onboard graphics and sound) will be for DOS gaming.

[@philscomputerlab]

Nice! The good thing about having such a board, you can experiment with the different CPUs and pick whatever suits you best.

[@ryersonfitzpatrick7955]

My First Retro PC was a gift from a friend in 2011 or so. A Digital Equipment Corporation DEC PC5100. Pentium 233MMX, 64MB RAM, Onboard S3 ViRGE, and a Crystal sound card. I had an ATI Rage II+DVD and a Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold that I'd salvaged from work, and I think this was an exceptionally good PC for costing me nothing.

[@modernandretrogaming]

Great, I still have my Pentium 166 MMX and S3VirgeDX 4MB , ATI Mach64VT2 but sadly not mainboard for that.

[@CMDRSweeper]

Watching Wing Commander is interesting, it gives me an insight into the game I love the most from the DOS Era. Strike Commander, and I can see the similar design elements, but I can't ever see myself tackling a space sim that black, there is just no landmarks. At least in Strike Commander you have the ground and sky to look for and orient yourself... I am so spoiled after all these years of nice graphics :D

[@bradsmith8977]

Hey its works great and I seen another Pentium called the Pentium overdrive chip and it was first time I ever heard about this one.

[@devblognet7476]

Cool, currently I'm using a K-6 166 MHz for my DOS System, but obviously it is a good Idea to switch to my MMX 133 MHz. Will test that soon. Thank you for that.

[@philscomputerlab]

There will be another video about this soon. I've swapped the CPU in my DOS PC to a MMX now because of this :D

[@MrKillswitch88]

This is why I hoarded the hardware when I had the option to do so avoided all the crazy and insane prices plus it gives me a nice range of systems and performance to work with rather than resorting to desperate measure that people are left with no choice.

[@pentiummmx2294]

im a hoarder too, i have loads of socket 7 boards and CPUs

[@Johnston1968]

Came across a socket 7 mmx board at a garage sale of all places - five bucks with two isa cards - one 1869f sound card & a dklink network card AND a PCI ATI RAGE PRO 3d card too

[@danielson9579]

An auto run program before you run a game rather that getting the old pen and pad out for the right command for the right game would be great thanks for the insight btw 🙂👍

[@RetroTinkerer]

Yeeeyy just arriving home from work and a Phil video is waiting for me!

[@ApolloniosIX]

Du bist gruselig... immer bringst Du genau die Themen die mich gerade beschäftigen... :D

I Love my Pentium 233 MMX and my P2 450 , thanks man for more one excellent video for us.

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@datasoftinc]

Finally a real retro video again! Phil, you are my hero!

[@RetroTinkerer]

I definitely need to find or made a WC ringtone... It would be amusing if somebody recognize it.

[@josephfrye7342]

good for dos and windows 3.x or 9x or NT pc build for retro classic game or indie gaming machine or just regular standard as usual it depends but the modern ones aside we will finds some new s** for modern pc gaming later.

[@joseluisrojas220]

I can't wait to try this on Warcraft II. I've been trying for years to run it at the right speed. It's always either too slow or too fast. Thanks once again!

[@philscomputerlab]

Do you have a rough idea what sort of PC would run it well? Like a 486-66 or something? I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@joseluisrojas220]

@@philscomputerlab I've tried it with a 486 66 ant it's too slow, barely playable. And my slowest Pentium is a 100Mhz, on wich the screen scrolling is too fast, same with the same CPU at 75Mhz, turning off caches on this one renders it too slow again. With a 486 100Mhz is the most playable, only the scrolling is a little slow and I get frame drops when there's a lot going on. I reckon the only real option for playing it as it was meant is with a Pentium 66. I've pretty much tried every combination of multipliers and speeds, as well as caches on and off. I'll try this when I get the chance (I've just moved to another country and my life is a little messy right now).

[@philscomputerlab]

Jose Luis Rojas Ok that gives me some starting points. It could also depend on the graphics card, so with a decent graphics card, a slower CPU might be ok. I played the first level of the Orc campaign with CPU at around 486-33 level, and it felt fine to be honest.

[@joseluisrojas220]

@@philscomputerlab maybe that's the issue. I tried it with a Cirrus logic vesa card (I don't remember the chip) and some generic PCI trident cards. Mind you I'm taking about the second game, the first Warcraft works great for me on my 486 66. And maybe I'm just remember playing faster on my PC from my childhood, and I was playing slow af! 🤔

[@joshwitt1475]

Thanks again Phil! I really enjoyed this one if I didn’t already have a k6 system I’d be picking this one up.

[@philscomputerlab]

Well all you need is the CPU. Depending on what you do, the MMX can be the better option. I will likely implement this change in my DOS PC, which at the moment has a K6-III+ CPU in it.

[@joshwitt1475]

PhilsComputerLab oh, I didn’t think about the fact that my k6 system can use the pentium mmx. I forgot that once upon a time AMD and intel fit the same socket!

[@joshwitt1475]

PhilsComputerLab found a Pentium MMX 233mhz for $9.99 including shipping on eBay! I loved watching the wing commander cutscene of the hatch closing on the cockpit of the fighter in perfect sync with the sound rather than it instantly speeding shut like I’ve always seen :)

[@philscomputerlab]

Nice :)

[@philscomputerlab]

So I actually had a Pentium 100 in my DOS machine :) I'm benchmarking before / after with a MMX 166 and will likely make a video around it :D

[@w04h]

Back when you had full hardware/software control over every component in your system...

[@soylentgreenb]

You really didn’t. Most of them required fiddly little jumpers. Setmul can’t set the multiplier or FSB. Nor can bios. You have to open the case and move a jumper.

[@szenti707]

​@@soylentgreenb there are some newer Socket 7 boards, which don't require jumpering.

[@georgez8859]

Great Video Phil. That software makes all the difference.

[@HH-fs5hl]

Ah u are back again with a new vid! :) my friend used to have one of these'' he had a oem pc running that exact same processor with a diamond stealth 3d 2000 :) if i only knew back then that turning off ur l1 and l2 cachewich in most cases would' let your games being sped up or lowered might do a lil video soon maybe not a pro as u are but il give it a try as soon i got all necessary things

[@BruceEverett]

Oh man. Worth it just to see a DOS util with a date of 2014. I knew I wasn't a luddite holding out until Win98. *Lip wobble*

[@stevec00ps]

I've just realised I've never played Wing Commander on a PC with a sound card!

[@LightTheUnicorn]

Kinda tempted to try this on a Libretto, get some pocket Wing Commander going, hmm... Pretty interesting how versatile that can be if you need a specific speed, good stuff!

[@philscomputerlab]

Does it have a MMX? It should work great then, eager to hear how you go :)

[@dergrunepunkt]

Pentium II processors should have this options as well, interesting

[@Dream0Asylum]

Intel gets wise to overclocking (and downclocking gets caught in the crossfire) around the PII/PIII era. Their thinking at the time was that nobody would buy their more expensive chips if they could simply bruteforce higher clocks out of the cheap stuff, so they started disabling the ability to set custom FBS and multipliers - up or down. Research the chip you're thinking of trying and see if its multiplier is unlocked before committing.

[@Dream0Asylum]

But on that note, SetMul is very useful - but not always 100% compatible (at least the last time I used it years ago).

[@wishusknight3009]

ram timings can also give variation as much as 25% when the 4 setmul options are off. On my TX97E going from the fastest to most slack latency.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yup that's true. Also if your motherboard supports a lower or higher BUS speed, like 60 MHz. And using an old ISA Graphics Card can also slow things down, especially at the low end.

[@wishusknight3009]

It may be also worth pointing out that with disabling specific functions in the cpu, some games will react very differently to each other. If for example one gets an abnormal boost from the branch prediction, or has greater use of the I cache over data cache ect.... All depending on the optimization of the game. There are some games that you could land right in the middle of that dead zone of adjustment! So thankyou very much..Im now going to be running benchmarks for the next 3 days. lol

[@philscomputerlab]

Have fun, and do let us know how you go :)

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@ahwayzcool4630]

My very first pc I built had this processor in it with 16mb of ram, 3dfx voodoo card, 2.5gb hdd...the big 5in hdd. Lol

[@Ale.K7]

Nice! I just picked up from the trash my bazillionth PMMX.

[@3DGECASE]

Meanwhile I've been just barbarically switching multipliers from 3.5 to 2.5 using a switch attached to motherboard headers to slow down my MMX.

[@philscomputerlab]

Nice, not a bad solution!

[@RetroTinkerer]

That only works while the computer is off... Right? 🤔 It would be very nice to come up with some kind of logic board that had some on/off outputs (like an arduino) and the multiplier could be selected with some simple up and down arrows or a rotary encoder... And if you add above that a MHz display that would kill it! 🤓

[@3DGECASE]

@@RetroTinkerer Yeah it only works with it off, as the multiplier is set at POST. Your multipler selection idea seems great, I'll have to try that out now!

[@GabrielZ666]

I remember seeing some kind of "mod" if you use an old case with turbo button, depending if the switch was turned on or off you can select a higher or lower multiplier, seems like a nice solution to do without opening the case.

[@RetroTinkerer]

@@GabrielZ666 Yep I think most turbo buttons are 2 position switches with 3 wires, some MB only use 2 pins for turbo functionality. So it could be possible to switch between 2 multiplier but you could get a hard lock or worse... I don't know, and not to sure if I want to risk one of my few MB trying. 😂

[@roguenova6766]

Hey Phil, Thanks for another great insight into the slowdown techniques, the BPD switch was the last piece of a puzzle for my non-MMX P133 box. Does your motherbord have the Soft Turbo feature invoked by CTRL+ALT+GreyMinus? There's usually an option called "Boot Up System Speed [Fast / Slow] in the BIOS if it's supported. This feature can actually make WC, TD3 etc playable in an instant (works in pure DOS only). If any of your S7 boards have it - this could make a killer material for time machine videos :)

[@ambigousBarrel]

Woah this must of took you ages to do :o Thanks for sharing the results very informative :D

[@philscomputerlab]

I'm working on a follow-up video with even more results.

[@ambigousBarrel]

Nice, I can't wait to see it :) I used to have a old MMX166 pentium 1 back in my childhood, never knew much about pc's back then but I wish I kept it I would of loved to mess around with it see what I missed :)

[@OuTannu]

Use the 166mmx. Its easy to overclock to 233 by the multiplier..

[@Oosystem]

I have a toshiba laptop with MMX 200, I can go fron 200 to 20 Mhz using this :). The benchmarks always recognize a 486, but it is cool for dos games.

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@danielson9579]

Was aware but never really used it seemed to time consuming when you just wanted to play a quick game i found the the pentium 166mmx was a good ballance :-)

[@herrbonk3635]

Why not simply use a 486, a 386 or a 286? Are they rare nowdays?

[@danielberrett2179]

"No Humans will survive." Wasn't Chris Roberts Kilrathi inspired by Kzin (Larry Niven) or was it the other way around? Or maybe both inspired by something even older.

[@matthewday7565]

Another way to add some in the gap would be to drop the 66 FSB to 60 - that should bring the top down to 90%

[@philscomputerlab]

Yes that's true, however there are more bars at the bottom end, so it's a bit more fruitful to go up in clock speed vs down.

[@bco1981]

0:54 Wait what? the first MMX cpu was a 166MHz ?

[@DeViLzzz2006]

"No humans will survive." "Not bad sir." I think the planet Earth agrees with all this said while you played Wing Commander. In your description I see the mention of AMD K6. Oh how I wish I had my first pc again which house an AMD K6.

[@linoxyard]

Question: I have obtained a Super Socket 7 mobo and AMD K6-2 (non plus) for cheap. I see that prices for the plus version are crazy, so I wondered if I could use these commands of SetMul with my K6-2... In case the answer is no, I have a bunch of 200MHz PMMX cpus to swap out, but it would be cool to keep the K6-2 on :)

[@jrherita]

I miss my old dual Pentium MMX machine :)

[@East-Coast-NS]

Ultima 7 is a good one to test with this.

[@travelthetropics6190]

I got a Pentium MMX 233 MHz in 1998 but never knew these. I think the motherboard is not working any more.

[@TheCureDMan]

Hi, Phil! How did you manage to find that P-MMX 266MHz? It's extremely rare, I think.

[@EvilTurkeySlices]

I have a super socket 7 machine with an AMD k6-2/500. Unfortunately I’m having troubles getting windows 98 installed.

[@felismetallum]

El mejor procesador para jugar Age of Empires :P que buena máquina

[@AndrewTJackson]

Very, very nice dude, thank you! No, I wasn't aware of the parts of the CPU that could be disabled other than the cache. I thought that there was something like a multiplier that could be manipulated to slow down and speed up the CPU. Also, HOW do these disables work please? How are the instructions routed around the CPU? Is there master controller circuitry that redirects instructions and data around different paths of the CPU, and if so, how do they get there if things liked the branch prediction circuitry is turned off completely? How do these things affect power draw and heat please? Thank you! :-)

[@philscomputerlab]

You might want to contact Gerwin on VOGONS.

[@AndrewTJackson]

@@philscomputerlab Thank you.

[@erenoz2910]

modern day pc's: NOOOOOO I WON'T LET YOU UNINSTALL MICROSOFT EDGE IT'S A CRITICAL PART OF WINDOWS pentium era pc's: So you want to uninstall the L1 cache? Go ahead king

[@madmax2069]

I have a 200mhz pentium MMX

[@Tom2404]

I have 200MHz and 233MHz Pentium MMX, as well as a 90MHz Pentium and a 400MHz K6.

[@spambot7110]

some of the things you're disabling (like branch prediction) will have very workload-dependent effects on speed though, right? like, branch-heavy code will benefit more from branch prediction than code that doesn't have much branching. are these "speed" numbers really all that static? i'd think from game to game or even different parts of a game will be affected differently by these changes. i guess my question is, at least in theory it's a lot more complicated than just "faster" and "slower", with different optimization features producing different amounts of speedup to different operations. but in real life do these complications actually introduce issues, or is it just a matter of getting the machine in roughly the same ballpark in terms of performance and it'll work?

[@RemmyLebo]

I Dig it! Team Alpha Gaming Certified ;)

[@ccanaves]

Hey Phil, what is that cooler? Is it a complete set from coolermaster, or is it only the fan, and a generic heatsink? Looks great!

[@philscomputerlab]

Not sure, can't remember how I got it.

[@KARAOTI23]

Enjoyed the WC footage! What SetMul option did you use for this particular gameplay? Also what sound card did you use? Btw, just found one AT socket 7 pc for free (it was me or the trash can)! Not sure if there is a cpu installed in there but I also have an MMX 200MHz ,although it is a bit fast (perfect though for a Voodoo 1)... If I can make this a working MS-DOS/Win95 PC I will definitely try out SetMul.

[@philscomputerlab]

I used the slowest setting. The sound was from a Crystal sound chip!

[@KARAOTI23]

Good to know! Waiting also from ebay the ESS Audiodrive OPL3 clone (got it for less than 15€), not the exact card you reviewed but it has the wavetable headers. I plan on using this card with the socket 7 computer instead of an OPTI card that is already installed in it.

[@philscomputerlab]

Nice, ESS cards are really good for DOS games.

[@alvaroacwellan9051]

Hmmmm, so the Tillamook can use the M/B cache with this SiS board...? I must try. Something similar. A SiS SS7 mobo has just arrived but I haven't tested it yet.

[@philscomputerlab]

No I used a normal MMX. I grabbed the 266 by accident for B-roll.

[@alvaroacwellan9051]

I see. I'll try it anyway, so... thanks for the heads up, I guess.

[@SomeAngryGuy1997]

I noticed you had a Pentium MMX 266 MHz Tilamook. Have you used it? Does it work with L2 Cache on this SIS board?

[@simant5361]

Phil which speed setting did you actually use for wing commander?

[@philscomputerlab]

The slowest, so with all 4 options in SETMUL enabled, and also motherboard Cache was off.

[@nathan386dx40]

Another great video as always! Does this need a VIA chipset, or can it work with pretty much any Socket 7 motherboard? What other specs are you running?

[@philscomputerlab]

Works on CPU level, so any chipset!

[@Jerre27]

Does the Super Socket 7 enjoys the same flexibility? I guess the 100 Mhz FSB is an added bonus?

[@keithbeesting]

Yes would like to know this aswell

[@Jerre27]

I got the SOYO 5EHM with a K6-2 400, very nice build, lasted me for years :-)

[@philscomputerlab]

And AGP graphics cards. However, slow is good, is really what this project is about.

[@joselemusjr6451]

Now i wonder how much this trumps a klamath setup and if this can be done as well. Good stuff phil as always.

[@philscomputerlab]

I never had much luck with Slot 1 and slowing it down. Because there is no motherboard Cache, if you disable the CPU Cache you have an extremely slow CPU. Even an old game like Indianan Jones and Last Crusade will feel slow. I think Wing Commander only became playable at around 800 MHz or something like that.

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@danielson9579]

Have you ever tried to run stonekeep by interplay by using these comands I could never get it to work right in the end I used a p75 with 4megs of ram in dos via win 95 wish I could get it to run right with a p166mmx :-/

[@philscomputerlab]

Nope never tried that game.

[@nekomasteryoutube3232]

I've been wondering, between the CPU and PCI slots, theres that white connector above some chips, whats that for? Is that some kind of Mini-PCI slot for a Wifi card?

[@philscomputerlab]

It's a memory upgrade slot for the onboard graphics card.

[@hihithisishihi]

anyone can explain to me why we want to slow down a cpu? for games to run slower?

[@nathan386dx40]

What GPU did you use, and what benchmark(s) were used to determine the speed percentage with the different settings - was it just Wing Commander? I'm very tempted to throw together an MMX build in the next few months when I'm less busy, so I can compare a few games, PC Player Benchmark, and other benchmarks from your site. Unfortunately I don't have a 386, 486, K6, or Pentium II build to compare them to, so it will be hard to tell exactly how the different speed levels compare to other platforms :(

[@philscomputerlab]

I used a Cirrus Logic PCI card, the exact model number escapes me right now. I used 2 benchmarks, 3DBENCH2 and also Doom with lowest details. Both are on the DOSBENCH pack which you can download from the website. There will be another video showcasing this project together with a batch file for easy benchmarking and recording sheet to print out, including reference results for 386 and 486 machines. So stay tuned!

[@nathan386dx40]

@@philscomputerlab thanks so much! I thought about asking for more detailed benchmarks and comparisons but thought it would be too much to (politely) ask of you. You're too good to the retro community! ☺

[@philscomputerlab]

athan Hardy LOL thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. I'm really excited about this MMX SetMul project. I thought I had it all figured out, and then this comes along :D I've already started to put a few things in place for that follow up video and made changes to my DOS PC as well. I'm really happy with the results and think this will make it easier, meaning you don't have to build 2 to 4 machines, and have just one that does it all.

[@e8root]

I am gonna forget this information right away :)

[@BoomBox02]

Very interesting information. I gotta say, you are one of very few KZbinr' out there that pronounces the word "Cache" properly. These days, everyone else on the internet are like sheep who follow everyone else in mispronouncing the word.

[@philscomputerlab]

Well it's how I learned it here in Australia :D

[@BoomBox02]

Yep, thats how i was taught to say it too. Funny enough everyone i knew that worked on computers back in the day before the internet took off use to pronounce it properly too, then came the internet and the pronunciation of the word "Cache" went to shit.

[@sebastiancaprara]

Why it says 266 mhz and its 133 mhz? I understand that only exist 166, 200 and 233 MMX processor of socket 7.

[@philscomputerlab]

It was just for B Roll footage.

[@Dex99SS]

Well, now someone needs to re-write this program to take advantage of this info you aggregated here. If someone could recompile in such a way that adds the ability to simply choose a face value option, with these toggles happening behind the scene... well, that would be lovely.

[@philscomputerlab]

Like Gary mentioned, you could just type up 16 batch files, e.g. 10.bat or 27.bat and that's easy enough.

[@RetroTinkerer]

@@philscomputerlab and/or call those batch files with the .bat you are using to load your game. I use to have a .bat that loaded my compressed game and when finished it update the .zip... Yep I had a pretty small HDD haha and Strike Commander was really big.

[@philscomputerlab]

Alberto Martinez Yes that's a great idea!

[@philscomputerlab]

I've put a page together with some resources. There is a section for "Benchmarking your own machine" together with a benchmark pack and a results sheet to print out. If you have time, maybe try it out? See if it makes sense / find any errors? www.philscomputerlab.com/136-in-1-pentium-mmx.html

[@jannenilsson739]

Uhh phil. Isnt that a pentium mobile 266mmx aka tillamook you are using? 1.9 volts vcore. With working L2 cache.

[@philscomputerlab]

No I wasn't using that one, I just grabbed one for B-Roll and didn't realise it was the mobile one.

[@jannenilsson739]

Ahh ok. How about doing a video about that cpu. You know the L2 cache problem, the 4x multiplier. I have computer with a 3dfx voodoo banshee card and a modded Intel 440TX motherboard with working L2 cache and a forced 4x multiplier running at 300mhz (4x75bus). Its a really cool and fast socket 7 computer. You have probably read the vogons thread regarding this cpu: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=30499

[@smg4gaming-poppyfromdreamw136]

This is better than My Mate Vince

[@jouce100]

Can you test Ultima 7?

[@vvbee]

u7dcp

[@tim6803]

Ultima 7 can be slowed down with the test registers, but it is immune to cache disabling. So while the L1D switch does not work to slow U7 down, different combinations of BPD, CCD, DCD, and VPD will work to slow it down. www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51782

[@vvbee]

u7dcp

[@philscomputerlab]

Tim Z Did not know this... :D

[@wfp9378]

Does this work with a Pentium Pro (150Mhz) or a 486? Wing Commander or Privateer at playable speeds would be nice to have.

[@philscomputerlab]

AFAIK it works with POD.

[@wfp9378]

I will give it a go. The 2 systems I have are HPs which have unique BIOS's setups compared with "normal" boards back in the day. BTW...the last 5 seconds of the video...it was always going to end that way :-p

[@k9cj5]

Anyone know if setmul would work on pentium 3 processors? I have a Dell XPS t450 and I can't disable CPU cashe in the bios.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yes it does, but the Pentium 3 is a poor platform for slowing down. You'll see.

[@k9cj5]

@@philscomputerlab After playing with this for a few weeks I see what you mean now. It slows it down way too much. Do you think getting a Pentium 2 350 with 100 fsb, which is the slowest processor my board can support, or maybe a faster Pentium 3 might help get it in range?

[@philscomputerlab]

@@k9cj5 Nope.

[@masterviper420]

can this be done with a 400MHz Intel Celeron becouse i have a emachine etower 400ix

[@philscomputerlab]

No it can't :(

[@AtariBorn]

What's up Phil?

[@dcikaruga]

Can you turn off cache and stuff with the latest generation CPU's? Just wondering what would happen.......

[@philscomputerlab]

You can disable the Cache on most CPUs!

[@dcikaruga]

L1? L2?

[@RandomActivities]

What motherboard are you using? I want one.

[@philscomputerlab]

It really doesn't matter, it just has to support the Pentium MMX.

[@3800S1]

lol little bouts of back to the future like theme music is a laugh.

[@UpLateGeek]

Did you try it with those options plus caches disabled as well?

[@UpLateGeek]

Never mind, just wound it back and noticed the options include that anyway. (:

[@RetroTinkerer]

@@UpLateGeek don't we all miss that chart going from 133 to 233 MHz... I'm not to sure what multipliers accept my board but I think with the 233MMX, 133MHz was the lowest I could get.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yea 133 is the lowest. The 1.5x multipler will give you 233 MHz, it got remapped. I'll see what the interest is, but I think this video is very specific and will be useful to only a small niche group :)

[@UpLateGeek]

I'd definitely be interested to see how the different options scale with processor speed. Could be useful for those with faster clocked CPUs, if they want to run older games.

[@philscomputerlab]

@@UpLateGeek Yea working on that...

[@toddstewart9070]

lol with p1s you didnt even really need thermal compound paste.

[@mr_beezlebub3985]

Can it run Crysis?

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

DOOOOOD!!!

[@emilypeters8888]

what is that slot below the cpu.

[@armorgeddon]

Optional memory for onboard graphics.

[@travelthetropics6190]

Should be for a L2 cache card. I got one back then.

[@eduardoavila646]

Would that work in a 700mhz amd duron or a 1.2ghz amd duron?

[@philscomputerlab]

No absolutely not.

[@eduardoavila646]

PhilsComputerLab I was hoping to be able to use my duron as a dos machine, as it doesnt have agp so a winXp or 98 gamging machine is out of question. I guess i will have to use it at stock speed to what dos-games arent that speed sensitive.

[@philscomputerlab]

Watch one of the previous videos, there we used a Socket A board for building a DOS machine.

[@eduardoavila646]

PhilsComputerLab Wow, nice! I actually watched some minutes of it but forgot completly! Thx for the indication

[@alexanrsousa]

It is nice seeing Pentiums faring well as time machines :-), while I have a K6-3 PC stored, I mostly use my MMX as my go-to DOS retro-machine. To be fair, granularity is only important to speed sensitive games. I'm guessing a little here (since you used percentages), but it seems that with DCD disabled with caches on you have speeds slightly better than a DX2-66, and you can go down to 386 levels, which I believe is good enough for most speed sensitive games (excluding those XT-era ones). I don't believe that gap between "DX2-66" mode and full speed would prevent you from running any games, as AFAIK anything that cannot run well on a DX2-66 is probably comfortable with the full speed configuration. The next widespread bug in speed-related issues would be the TP7 CRT bug in processors over 200MHz, which does not affect this build anyway.Ah, if you wanna go lower, you can always reduce your FSB clock to 50MHz, which would drop the Pentium down to 100MHz, while also reducing PCI and memory clocks. With some creative wiring you can even do it on the fly with a turbo button (unlike the multiplier, you don't need to power cycle the CPU for the changes to take effect)

[@philscomputerlab]

I'm working on a follow-up video, but it's difficult cramming all the data into something that visually makes sense...

[@alexanrsousa]

Nice to hear that, but yeah, it does seem to be a big amount of data for you to handle. Hope you figure it out

[@TheXlen]

I have a socket 5 pentium PC

[@linoxyard]

This probably doesn't work with a Pentium 3 Katamai right?

[@philscomputerlab]

No it doesn't.

[@linoxyard]

@@philscomputerlab Yeah, I guess because it's based on the P6 architecture, the mmx is P5C if I'm not mistaken

[@raven4k998]

your so wrong about the in between performances it's called under clocking drop the cpu to say 120 or 100 MHz or 90 or 75 or 66 or 60 so on and so forth coupled with enabling and disabling the caches you can get a lot of performance levels through this additional way

[@smg4gaming-poppyfromdreamw136]

100K subs giveaway!

[@InfiniteClouds]

I've previously benchmarked my Pentium MMX 233 with 142 different combinations that include all these settings at both 233 and 133mhz here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKhCIaYDP1sWoETFdqQ0kq_TY_sL4yHBSCGgG3qblPk/htmlview# I've also done my Ezra VIA cpu which had over 700 combinations to benchmark.

[@philscomputerlab]

Nice!

[@InfiniteClouds]

Yeah, in particular the 486DX2-66 is a really important mark for a lot of games that the K6s just don't hit so it is nice to have these options.

[@philscomputerlab]

I just finished doing all the variations, with 120, 133, 166, 200 and 266 MHz. The DX2 CPUs have a lot of data points. There is somewhat of a gap around the DX4-100 and 133, but it's not huge, and I doubt there are many, if any, games that need exactly a DX4.

[@InfiniteClouds]

Agreed -- any game that would 'need' a DX4 would do fine on a Pentium 90~ or so. That's great that you were able to do all those combos, I hope you upload them to our database. My socket 7 board couldn't do 50FSB so I was more limited.