People Born Blind Don't Get Schizophrenia...WHY? | A Doctor Reacts

[@magnanimus9692]

An interesting report that ties into this is one that details the experiences of a congenitally-blind musician who took large quantities of LSD in the 70s ( pseudonym "Mr. blue pentagon" if you want to look him up). The jist of it is that apparently he never experienced visual hallucinations while on LSD, rather had profound tactile and auditory hallucinations as well as synthesthesia of the two (ex: a Bach piece would 'feel like a waterfall').

[@dryam2000]

I suspect there’s an element of circadian rhythm adaptation for the congenital blind, and a circadian disruption for those who subsequently went blind. 100% of the time people who go without sleep long enough develop psychosis. Light in back of the retina is the #1 regulator of the circadian rhythm. Congenitally blind people likely develop alternative methods (via developmental neuron pruning?) that regulates their sleep cycle. Those who go blind are SOL because they lack these pathways resulting in marked disruption of their sleep cycle & more likely to manifesting illness. There is some cross connectivity between schizophrenia and bipolar. Lack of sleep and environmental stressors are big factors in whether people who have a genetic predisposition manifest both of these disease. In identical twins with BD roughly 50% manifest disease..meaning environment plays a big role.

[@VioletFemme1111]

Thank you for this insightful comment, which as I typed that made me ponder on the word insightful itself! The human brain and how we 'see' the world and ourselves within it are certainly very vision centric, it's obvious from the language we use. Its a very interesting topic to me and I hope more research along these lines is done.

[@coleburns5497]

It’s basically a developmental-genetic disease. Their brains are processed differently then others.

[@schoenda]

I remember when doctors would sit around and discuss this stuff...instead of what their hedis measure is or how many stars they got on yelp or how many hcc's they hit that day...just f-ing shoot me. God bless you ZDogg.

[@thischannelhasmoved8086]

This could also be much more challenging to diagnose in those who were born blind.

[@RabblesTheBinx]

I'm not sure why that would be. As other people have pointed out, schizophrenia usually involves auditory hallucinations, not visual.

[@thischannelhasmoved8086]

@@RabblesTheBinx If you can see then it's a lot easier for you to identify if that voice is coming from a real person or a hallucination. The normal experience of someone who has been blind their whole life is also likely much different that yours and even someone who once had vision and then lost it. Some have suggested that your inner voice can be more prominent in the congenitally blind. If you see that as normal, who's to say an auditory hallucination would sound much different than that? There are also "negative" signs and symptoms of schizophrenia that can look more like depression to the untrained observer. To the average person it might fit their world view (oh, he's blind, I'm sure he's depressed to some degree). And let's face it, schizophrenia is not necessarily an easy diagnosis to make anyway and all cases of suspected schizophrenia should be referred to a psychiatrist because there are many misdiagnoses in these cases.

[@OlivaSullen]

Orbs @2:29 on the top right. @3:57. @7:31 I don't think its about creating a comprehensive internal version of our external reality. I think the problem is that we are over-reliant on developing sensory associations and using them to think. Because schizophrenia is well accepted as involving visual hallucinations, we're making the assumption that disturbances of the visual cortex are causing hallucination. I think its a problem of constantly referencing internal imagery, like memory data, when accessing other sensory info. So instead of staying present and attached to our shared objective reality, or being able to see internally AND externally at the same time, we check out of the external and reference the internal imagery space. This would be why people who develop blindness later, or people in those blindfold studies see internal imagery that fills in their external reality for them, because we don't know how to utilize the other stored sensory data without it being integrated with the visual. They get wired together, they fire together, and they are intrinsically tied into each other when they operate. 80% of our senses are sight based, our brains depend on that 80% when collecting and storing data. It's an association issue. Visual and Audio hallucinations aren't the cause of schizophrenia, they're a side effect. The cause is relying on our senses to tell us what is true, the opposite of which is the other symptoms, paranoia and delusion and disordered thinking. We most rely on sight, unless we never had to rely on it at all.

[@shaygirly100]

I absolutely love these kinds of discussions!

[@bdillon1011]

Interesting. Back on school for Occupational Therapy (late 1970s) I remember learning about sensory integration issues in people with schizophrenia. In a level 1 internship I worked with a woman with schizophrenia. Her mother was an RN fortunately so a wealth of information. Mom was able to share very interesting information on her daughter's development which did show early impairments as you discussed.

[@crimbizzleA]

Just a psych nurse here. Would congenital blindness have any developmental effects on the mesocortical or mesolimbic pathways we typically target with antipsychotic drugs?

[@ChiDraconis]

Briefly; Awaiting any interest by the poster; We start with VNO signals transient induced panic-mode via amygdala - which is cross-wired with Visual Cortex - 1-st noting the X-Path of Neuro-coronal as the likely path of fear-inducing COVID-19 which is how we get everything backwards; The thing here is do differentiate *promptly* my joking from very serious issues such as just now I observe a charcoal black suburban in front of the office where I sit; As a clinician you will have seen how some real Skitz-oidal cases can come up with the funniest pique that anyone can; I sat on the front-row of Texas Senate Hearing on your industry and a person with profound clinical condition brings the entire floor to a standing ovation; This person was the designated representative for an organized effort by Pt's to present their case; If you know what I know about _charcoal black suburban_ suddenly appearing in front of my office while I post this a Panic Mode Adreno response would be correct _yet I remain calm_ Looping _Genesis - I Can't Dance_ (Official Music Video) and while doing this I can produce in my Pt Lisa various subjective experiences which I can control to some extent; Lisa is 5 States away and we have never met in-person this lifetime; The difficulty is that visual signalling produces an excess of responses in the neurotransmitter signalling; though usually lacks vomeronasal ( signalling ) - an organ of chemoreception that is part of the olfactory system of amphibians, reptiles, and mammals - the reptiles lack any fear response; My self I am an exceptional case; Recently like in the past few years I have perception of rattle-snake - months ahead of the event in reality - which my cat will indicate to me if I just remain calm & drinking coffee → which is exactly what I do; I remove the rattler with hemo-stats then begin identification; It is a Pygmy Rattler - those have no upper-level responses such as fear though with it under 1 Meter distant it would be within striking distance and the heat-sensitive pits between the eyes and nostrils that allow them to detect and accurately strike warm-blooded prey → such as Me!!!!! Your question resolves to too much signalling via opto-cortical neuro pathway; The skitz is still there it just does not get excited; www.hindawi.com/journals/np/2013/864920/

[@brdzeyevu]

I seen a TED talk that made the theory schizophrenia could be predicated based how we catalog our vocabulary and definitions. It could be then used to analyze things like your social media and detect if you had the condition.

[@drawncept8391]

Fascinating. Psych is my profession and I've never heard this specifically, though I am not surprised. I am curious, however, about other psychosis, such as depression with psychotic features (as a specifier). The reason this may be important resides in etiology and inherent difference (neurologically and by stimulus response). The same could be said for schizoaffective d/o. Hmmm..... You do an excellent job explaining psych stuff; always enjoy learning from you. People often underestimate sense datum as a construction medium to psychology, though they are directly related (obvious = overlooked). Great stuff, Doc.

[@JosetteBadger]

Kind of opposite of Charles bonnet syndrome? So cool, now I have to go read that article!

[@CarlVibe]

This blew my mind bro. Very interesting thoughts.

[@VioletFemme1111]

I've always thought sleep, circadian rhythms and especially REM are a big part of the picture of how psychosis develops. I read that SSRI drugs have an effect of decreasing REM sleep. REM sleep is apparently higher than normal in depression states. Possibly indicating that spending too long in REM states can be a factor in depression? Conversely people on a manic upswing have delayed sleep, need less sleep and have disturbed circadian patterns. If they can't be shifted from this pattern in time, psychosis can develop which many people experience as a sort of waking dream. Is it possible that long periods of decreased REM sleep which seems to be vital in processing emotions and memory formation can lead to such a disturbed circadian state that people have the suppressed REM when they are awake which manifests as psychotic experiences? Often there is a memory grey out or black out of the inital stage. Sleep hygiene is certainly a large part of a successful management of mood/perception disorders such as bi polar disorder. Of course SAD is a mood disorder to do with lower levels of daylight affecting vitamin d levels and melatonin production which impacts on sleep and circadian rhythms. I wish there was more research on this, it's an interesting article and thanks for your sharing on this and also the comments below.

[@shanjaliarul6077]

I would love to hear more insight on SAD. That’s an interesting theory and i think it might carry some truth to it.

[@vwalker99999]

Who's to say that the formerly sighted who are now diagnosed with schizophrenia are seeing something that isn't there - in THEIR construct. We might be deficient and they might be gifted. The gifted often don't function well in a world of average folks. They might very well be seeing into all of those things we aren't capable of seeing or which our constructs block. Perhaps those who lost their sight keep the memories of what it out there and continue to hear, sense, be aware of things we just don't fathom. It makes you look at them a bit differently, doesn't it?

[@snyderkr0822]

Reality is what is whether we believe it or not, and there's only one. We just have different contexts in which we interact with it causing different perceptions or misperceptions of reality (kinda what schizophrenia is, isn't it?). Our senses perceive or misperceive that reality, and given how much input we get from our vision, the blind just have one less, outsized input to give conflicting input, and whatever those visual inputs are that contribute to schizophrenia just aren't there? It would be interesting to look into what there is that's different from schizophrenia about the mental health issues the blind *do* experience. Could produce a quantum leap (of sorts) in our understanding for treatment and avoidance, as you talk about. I hope there are follow-up studies to come!

[@wardjami876]

So I have a question, where do infants who lose their vision say from retinopathy of prematurity or other reason, or infants who lose vision before one or two years old fit in this situation.

[@matthewcrome5835]

I wonder if this just applies to full-blown schizophrenia/schizoaffective (the most chronic and severe form of psychosis and arguably mental illness in general) or if this also applies to other schizophrenia spectrum disorders that are less severe (e.g. schizophreniform, brief psychotic episode, mood disorder w/ psychotic features, or schizoaffective with less severe psychosis). I ask because I have been alternately diagnosed with mood disorder with psychotic features and schizoaffective, and I can confirm it's possible to have delusions and hallucinations where you have some insight into what's going on. In addition, most psychotic disorders manifest in auditory hallucinations as opposed to visual hallucinations, so it's interesting vision clearly has something to do with it.

[@tanya5322]

Not Sz related, but I know of a young lady who was diagnosed with ASD /Aspergers (about the time the medical community was transitioning to a broader spectrum of ASD vs other sub-set DXs) Anyway, one of the traits her mother noticed about her was her clumsiness, and an ability to “trip over dust bunnies”. I wouldn’t want to “change” the people I know who are neuro divergent to “normal”, but it seems science still has lots to learn about how the brain works, and it’s fascinating for this lay person to listen to you more or less “thinking out loud” about it, even if it’s not your specialty.

[@anonb4632]

Dyspraxia is a cliché trait of ASD. But it's not always true. I was speaking to someone on the spectrum tonight who plays table tennis, badminton and lawn tennis to a decent level. I also know a couple who are decent rugby and soccer players.

[@tanya5322]

Anon B yep. It seems there will always be those who are the exception to the rule. One of my children does some work with special needs kids. One of the cliché traits of ASD is being what might otherwise be considered as painfully shy. That is, not likely to engage even known people in conversation, much less random strangers. Yet my adult child knows an ASD child who happily approaches strangers and strikes up conversations. Human diversity is endlessly fascinating

[@DrFinneasMedicine]

I wonder if this has some connect with the eye movement/tracking dysfunction that is one of the most replicatable neuropsych signs in schizophrenia.

[@heidigone]

I have a couple of stories that link the eye to schizophrenia. The first story is about me. I had a mini stroke once, and the warning signs were very extreme, yet I had no idea why I was having them at the time. I was seeing things and hearing voices and having a full blown schizophrenic episode. I could hear people taunting me and they were looking at me. I thought that I was being spied on, and I unplugged all of the electrical cords from the walls. I even thought that my guinea pigs were spying on me and they looked like they had strange growths appearing on them. It was so bad that my son had me taken away to the hospital, and I was admitted to the psych ward. After a couple of days, I was better, and I wasn't hallucinating anymore. The paranoia left, but I was very confused. I didn't know if the experience was a reality or not. Then, a week or so after I got out of the hospital, I woke up while having a stroke. It was just a mini stroke with no lasting damage thank goodness, but none the less, it was a stroke. I had woke up with a cold sore directly on the center of my eye. My schizophrenic behavior was a symptom of an eye stroke. After that, I began to think that schizophrenia is caused by something wrong with the blood vessels that feed the optic nerve. I will just ad that I have never experienced this again, and I have no mental illness. The 2nd story is about a very close friend of mine who was schizophrenic. He once thought that the devil was talking to him and making deals with him to do things. One of those things was that he had to lose an eye, so he stuck a pen through his eye and into his brain. Luckily, he was in the hospital when he did this, and was rushed into surgery to remove the pen from his brain. He survived, but was forever blind in that eye. I have heard many stories about drugs that make you go crazy and also affect your eyes. Sometimes people just see things and some want to dig their eyes out. There is a definite connection between eyesight and schizophrenic behavior. I truly believe it's caused by a lack of blood supply to the optic nerve. I haven't brought this up to any doctors, but I probably should.

[@shiva8265]

You should! That is absolutely fascinating!

[@oliviasmyth5086]

That is very interesting. Wouldn’t it be awesome to have some sort of visual therapy for children who they think could have this perception issue and prevent them from getting schizophrenia.

[@anonb4632]

Unfortunately, I could see certain countries turning visual therapy into a form of brainwashing for children.

[@oliviasmyth5086]

Anon B yup you’re probably right 😢

[@fireflyfarmletontheeno777]

I would love to hear Robert Sapolsky's input on this!

[@taopaille-paille4992]

he is just a guru, but is full of himself and doesn't know much about anything. see him as a sect leader rather than else

[@evas.9400]

Seems really unlikely. And I have had a frequently committed, congentially blind patient who carried a schizophrenia, chronic, undifferentiated diagnosis. I no longer work for that facility, so my ability to more directly rebut the statement is limited.

[@anonb4632]

If your case was in the USA, they seem to have a bad habit of diagnosing nearly all mental disorders as "schizophrenia" .

[@danielamartel2428]

Can you imagine if we got to where we could prevent schizophrenia onset in susceptible people. That would be awesome. Some great ideas here.

[@anonb4632]

I wish people who realise cannabis is a way of triggering it as well. I'm not a person who thinks it should be banned, but it is not a harmless substance like some claim.

[@ambivalenteful]

Hi. I'm so glad you posted this, I asked some questions about this yesterday when watching your video. I have so many more questions., sorry if it is too many. I have thought very often about who decides what reality is and isn't, how can anyone state with so much conviction that what they perceive is reality and what someone else(like me with schiz) is not reality etc? I think that I see and hear "more" of actual reality than others and that is seen as disordered, maybe because as Hoffman says that those organisms that see reality accurately are likely to go extinct..?(not that I think anyone is concerned with me going extinct, but maybe this society is concerned (sub consciously) that if I pass on my "maladaptive" way of perceiving and constructing reality, it is a threat to the survival of their species and therefore they want to alter my perception and reality construction to be more like theirs even though theirs isn't "accurate"?).We apparently all "see" realty not as it is, but as we construct it..when you say that people with schizophrenia are constructing reality inaccurately because they are perceiving reality differently than it actually is, how is that different from everyone else who according to Hoffman also construct reality inaccurately (not as it actually is)? Can it not just be said that the interface a person with schiz is using is different, but maybe not more an inaccurate reflection of reality and who's to say they aren't seeing "more" of actual reality than others are, they are filtering out less? I get that is less adaptive as far a living in a social society, but that also depends somewhat on the society, eg if some societies see shamans who "see and hear things that others can't" etc as wise and not as schizophrenic, but if that shaman was in western society they might be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder...Also, I get that congenitally blind people can't inaccurately construct reality through visual input, but can't they inaccurately construct reality through their hearing? many people with schizophrenia have auditory hallucinations, more than visual ones...sorry, so many questions. This is important to me, because I see how humans are making a huge mess of the world and they are driven to do things based on their construction of reality which in my opinion is leading to extinction of not just other species of life but also of their own species since it is dependent on the survival of other species as well...I am a single mom of a now 15 year old and am really trying to support her to to not only live in a way that is healthy and safe and peaceful for her, but also for the reality of the universe/all existence of which we are just tiny occupants(but with tremendous power to cause devestating destruction to other probably more important occupants...

[@shiva8265]

You have absolutely valid + interesting points! I knew a schitzophrenic fella, when I was 13, he told me similar, what if he's seeing reality right + society is brainwashed + blind...That blew my mind.

[@tlarson1977]

Interesting. This makes sense regarding hallucinations but what about paranoia and delusions?

[@ambivalenteful]

maybe paranoia is a result of the conflict between the reality construct of a person with schiz and the reality construct of others(the majority of the society in which they live) who try to forcefully impose their way of constructing reality onto them while also dismissing their construct reality as bad or disordered, defective...that might lead a person with schiz to become suspicious about whether these others are lying and also why they are lying or trying so hard to "stop them from seeing reality as it is(their construct)maybe the others are hiding something from them which they don't want them to perceive etc...?

[@GardenOfNoise]

I wonder if the more helpful link to focus may be that difficulties with perception > unhelpful beliefs about the world/self/other > vulnerability to schizophrenia. If you perceiving the world differently to others, you’d constantly have your reality questioned or be questioning your own reality. That would leave you quite vulnerable to mental illness. Acceptance and management of that difference would be more adaptive and perhaps protective of later mental illness. When I interact with clients who have psychosis, their interpretations of the world (and therefore by extension their sensory input) is what keeps them stuck. Rather then exercises to strengthen other senses, I would then surmise therapy from very early on to give them the tools to manage their interpretations of the world and their behavioural reactions to it would be much more helpful, and actually getting to the source of the issue. Just my two cents as a mental health worker.

[@GardenOfNoise]

Fascinating article though. Really awesome stuff that has my brain ticking. Thanks for sharing!!

[@shiva8265]

Spot on fella...Very interesting ideas. How do you work with them? Like, I don't knkw, Inwoukd just love to hear more about the work you do + your ideas + findings. It's an absolutely fascinating subject I've only just randomly stumbled upon! *My mind is blown by all the comments also

[@jermektubel]

Just a thought: Perhaps people born blind, due to the compensatory nature of the brain, are less likely to develop schizophrenia (mostly auditory hallucinations) because the brain adapts to blindness through heightening the auditory sensory pathway (no competition from visual stimuli); therefore, they are better at more accurately creating a primarily auditory representation of their surroundings and reality in general? Could this have a resulting protective effect against auditory hallucinations and schizophrenia in general? A blind person relies on the strong ability to detect and differentiate voices and sounds between their internal and external environment more so than a sighted person as an adaptive and protective trait with regard to schizophrenia?

[@LordPadriac]

So is the key to immunizing humanity against schizophrenia blinding all fetuses before birth or am I a monster for considering that?

[@anonb4632]

Most people get blinded by their parents, or if they don't do it, the school system does.

[@hellopeoplefromtheusa5797]

It would be interesting to see the stats on the deaf or other sensory deprived individuals. Now, I wonder if evolutionarily, our mind's creation of reality has become more and more reliant on visual inputs as opposed to other inputs over time and, being 'newer' it's not quite perfected (to the degree it can be perfected or say that hearing is) and Schizophrenia is a byproduct of a system in development. It could also be looked at a random 'mutation' that may be accidentally creating new manners of interpreting reality.

[@fiachramacaonrae5449]

Dr, Your manner is pleasantly civil when discussing "Schizophrenia".

[@Uhlbelk]

Strange that auditory hallucination is far more common for schizophrenia than visual. Can't tell if those childhood symptoms are diagnostic of visual disorders or other senses such as proprioception, or even a problem with their sense of time. Well, its an interesting hypothesis that doesn't seem very well founded.

[@evas.9400]

Not strange at all ... Visual hallucinations are the product of medical conditions -- functional neurological disorders, tumors, infections, and so on. Auditory hallucinations are the result of mental illness, but can be from either thought disorders or mood disorders.

[@kkakacek]

@@evas.9400: Schizophrenia can cause both auditory and visual. The auditory is far more common.

[@Camboo10]

We learned about this in my undergrad abnormal psych class. Interesting topic…

[@PlaceboPharmacy]

In the future, are we going to have another option on our glasses? “Did you want schizophrenia protection along with your UV protection?”

[@jd0779]

Look at Degas' art pre and post blindness.

[@timflippance3040]

Interesting theory. Could it also be that the congenitaly blind have a large area of the brain, the visual cortex at the back of the head, sitting around doing nothing, and which can therefore be put into service augmenting the functions of the rest of the brain, and thereby making any flaws in the operation of the rest of the brain less noticeable?

[@BFMVFL]

It does make some intuitive sense that if the sense we rely most for confirmation of our other senses fails is we begin to believe the tricks our minds play on us. Then if we never develop relying on it we are less susceptible to those delusions

[@irvincoria1887]

Dude, you just wrinkled my brain. :)

[@georgezakusilo1584]

I wonder about people who went blind at different ages (1 year, 2 years, 10 years, etc) Is there a difference there? Is there an increased risk the more years you had vision? Does it has to be congenital? Possibly same genes involved in vision and schizophrenia?

[@7bartlv]

So is there any similar findings with congenital deafness or even congenital anosmia?

[@johnlee5307]

Just read a sci-fi book Recursion. It's main idea is that time is a construct of the mind and by altering one's memory you can change history. I guess it's solipsistic view but it's interesting

[@ChiDraconis]

I have proceeded to where I can to a limited extent produce subjective effects while in reverie sleeping than cannot be safely attained while awake using mirroring Neural Circuits; I was born such that I have perceived events which will occur in the future with non-trivial effects; I am very informed on like Chopra et al and re-writing future memories before they occur with a substantial result being the finding that scant if anything can be done to change much of major futures; I could with only 10 or 20 minutes cite substantial list of authors in the arena though for my 02¢ I put the book aside when I read the latest of them; An investment in pulling out of the dive that I had made with very limited funds and nothing for heating nor food; I am contending - for the moment; for the post here - Solopsistic is a _lack_ of an empathetic response which fills in with a tapestry of 5-HT effects which provide lets say a sense of fulfillment ~ myself since it is me and I can say what I want I currently use retail grade Theanine to boost strong Pekoe tea which i started when I would emit a screeching sound at EEG Spiking at onset of sleep; Of course the Invisible Space Cooties will be watching our every move for an opportunity to exploit our lack of range

[@nissahauer4309]

Do you think this would affect those who have schizoaffective disorder which has a disorder where people who have symptoms of schizophrenia and a mood disorder

[@SoulfulMole]

Interesting for sure, but would like to see some more empirical neuroscience on this one, brain scans, etc. Organic dysfunction in schizophrenia is complicated, and the more common type of hallucination is auditory,... so while it's certainly an interesting theory that congenital blindness is a protective factor, I'm not grasping the neurobiology on this one.

[@ChiDraconis]

There is no Neuro-biology which addresses this; I contend with no basis that fully-formed visual forms are like "rare if ever" or in that category; Let's let me place for the moment since I am working this actually; live real-time now; That this Tinnitus which correlates better to DSM-3 then make a hold-off reserve for stuff we ourself have not found yet that some as yet un-described excess should show on a 32-channel head-cage if the event can be produced with enough repeat-ability and predictability to entertain interest from MBA's looking for a thesis subject so that they can get on with it; Just think; We could hire Crisis Actors and sell the product to CCP!!

[@xXxMCmanxXx]

Very interesting as hallucinations in schizophrenia are classically AUDITORY rather than visual. Visual hallucinations are more indicative of biological causes.

[@ChiDraconis]

*Any* CNS signalling _can_ produce subjective effects that are not there in the real world; Do you have any references on tinnitus for that?

[@plisa211]

I feel like the movie Bird Box is a strange representation of this with the visually impaired being immune to the antagonist of the film.

[@anonb4632]

There were a lot of issues with that film, such as why the renegades didn't seem to attack the blind folk.

[@MrPaulosophy]

Since schizophrenia is strongly associated with auditory hallucinations, I am curious to see a similar examination of people born congenitally deaf.

[@evas.9400]

They have schizophrenia at a similar rate to the general population, and do, incidentally, experience auditory hallucinations. I had a lot of contact with a deaf outpatient and residential program.

[@MrPaulosophy]

@@evas.9400 that's very interesting. Thank you for your reply.

[@CushingsSx]

If the idea is to have a more consistent representation with actual reality. Don’t we need all the help we can get, from all of our sensory inputs, intact? Confounders .

[@BobStetson]

Very cool video/subject

[@RabblesTheBinx]

I'm skeptical. It's not that I don't think it's possible, but the studies that I have found on the subject involved *very* small sample sizes (for example, one only included 66 blind children). It's certainly an interesting idea and it could absolutely be true, but I haven't found anything solid enough to convince me, yet.

[@DDGLJ]

It would be interesting to see if blind people with Charles Bonnet Syndrome are more or less likely to be come schizophrenic. These are people who could once see, but become blind and yet still have complex visual experiences, e.g. they see people, buildings, cars. However, unlike a hallucination, they know these aren't real. Perhaps these people are more stable in that they can still see their mental constructs.

[@valeriemcdonald440]

Disclaimer: I don't know anything. Okay, theory: Perhaps the cause of a person's blindness developing later in life is the same as the cause of their schizophrenia. My bias is that I think schizophrenic symptoms are autoimmune related. Having autism is associated with an elevated risk of schizophrenia and Parkinson's, too. Undiagnosed celiac can develop psychosis when untreated as well.

[@aieshahismael2581]

This.

[@DerLeeker]

but isn´t hearing voices also a part of schizophrenia, most blind people can still hear (otherwise life is pretty hard). so do congenitally-blind people hear voices and if so: in a pathological sense (Schizophrenia ...) or in a "natural" sense (stress etc. - i started hearing voices in my second semester of university ... due to high stress)

[@anonb4632]

Some forms of schizophrenia. In the USA (but not so much elsewhere), the term schizophrenia has been an umbrella term for all too many illnesses.

[@mikaelstradwick]

I have schizophrenia

[@mehrnaz4288]

Also women born blind do not get breast cancer. Melatonin might be the factor, because it is so anti-inflammatory. High dose melatonin is used as adjuvant for breast cancer treatment. Schizophrenia could have been caused by sever microglial over activation caused by inflammation. Again melatonin could be the factor that limits inflammation.

[@markadam3127]

My idea is that a person born blind is so much dependent on people that she cannot live in her own mind as a schizophrenic does she trusts people which a paranoid schizophrenic doesn't.

[@Katharine848]

MIND BLOWN

[@freestreaming3780]

Sorry.. But my friend born blind and deaf.. And have schizophrenia.. Is hard to help him.. Because he can't hear or see me.. When he relapse,, he screaming and throws food and plate. I met him in mental hospital.

[@thegingerunicorn178]

Extremely interesting

[@Sherbieable]

Interesting but in my 30 years in metal health, most people with schizophrenia have auditory hallucinations, not visual. And sensory deprivation isn’t schizophrenia.

[@whiteswanlilly4119]

Interesting!

[@ImStabo]

Excellent

[@jefftube3987]

Dopamine pathway under developed?

[@lohphat]

It’s not that big a surprise given current model of the understanding of perception and consciousness. We, all of us, are currently hallucinating. Our brains are synthesizing every moment of perception. That’s why optical illusions are so shocking as they show how weak our visual system is and that our brains have to compensate and assume what’s going on around us. This also explains religion and cult behaviors. If you are “programmed” or indoctrinated to view “reality” in a certain way, that becomes dominant. This is why it’s so hard for people to leave their church. It requires extraction from the “reality” they’ve been given as children. This also explains [edit: Charles Bonnet Syndrome] where blind people see images in their visual field which aren’t there. Their minds are placing them there. So effectively we’re all living in a simulation our brains are constantly generating.

[@splashesin8]

lohphat That's Charles Bonnet syndrome, where the brain creates something for visual stimulation. Sometimes it might be frightening but most of the time it's a mundane kind of visual.

[@lohphat]

@@splashesin8 You're right. That's what I get for posting pre coffee.

[@ericnastav]

Schizophrenics lack pre-pulse inhibition. So, like many with autism and ADHD they can have significant sensory sensitivity. They can't block out extraneous sensory input from their environment. This is a source of psychological pain and stress. It's for potentially all senses, but auditory seems to the biggest one. So I'd say that they(the blind) don't get schizophrenia because they don't have the stress of overstimulated senses. Yes, strengthening the senses will help someone with sensory sensitivity. NOT.

[@spaight711]

So that's what Bird Box was all about, eh?

[@JazzJackrabbit]

The congenitally blind might not get schizophrenia, but but they do have higher rates of autism instead.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

So people born blind don't suffer from schizophrenia but those who become blind suffer a higher incidence of disordered thinking. That's not really a direct comparison. It seems to be comparing apples to oranges that look somewhat like apples. Disordered thinking might include schizophrenia but isn't synonymous with schizophrenia.

[@robbiebirt5738]

Basically a Schizophrenic is someone who's creating of reality is in overdrive.

[@LiMitZplus]

Hoffman’s theory is just a reductionist approach of Hinduism. It’s a step in a better direction but it’s still too caught I the materialistic conception of consciousness

[@SuperNinjasoccer]

I think you re right and I think I'm developing schizophrenia. I know what it is you are locked out of your brain it's dieng and the rest of it is making up the rest of your reality making you want to feel fine because you r brain is saying I'm good I got this but it's not and you don't I used my last functioning to get an MRI two months ago because clinical symptoms and depression came first so I took it as brain blood flow problem but now even what I knew about myself is starting to twist and distort I'd love to talk more about this

[@greymgag3675]

So in the near future,schizophrenia treatment will be a kind of visual therapy.

[@gieanmossmann3942]

Maybe we live In a simulation, that's why the bland are not schizophrenic

[@Thunda1986]

Really VICE

[@ChiDraconis]

Dr Zoggie; I posted extensively in the comments based on work I have already attained; When and if you encounter poster who just has to have a reference in traditional work the only known material is Asparagus Dreams which Simpy Put is the 5-level categorization of the Standard Manual re-written as a fictional subjective account published by Canadian Journal Adolescent Psyche: *Penfold S. Asparagus Dreams. Can Child Adolesc Psychiatr Rev. 2005;14(2):51* Do not push the Neurologists on this or you will get thrown off like I did;

[@ChiDraconis]

See also: The results showed that adding facial deformations or affective facial features elicited humor in participants; adding negative affective features, in particular, elicited greater feelings of humor. Du et al. (2013) used funny jokes to investigate the brain regions related to humor and found that the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) was involved in breaking mental expectations and forming novel associations → my findings are that during spiking at onset of sleep non-related images will evoke the Elephant in the Room response which produces that GABA axis satisfaction which is due to having an explanation; *Humor drawings evoked temporal and spectral EEG processes Regina W.Y. Wang,1,2 Hsien-Chu Kuo,1,2 and Shang-Wen Chuang1*

[@ChiDraconis]

*Disclaimer:* Any material posted by me is speculation; opinion; entertainment; or nutcase rumor and under no test should be considered information = I am not formally certified in any of this; When I get haggled about it I will remove my in reference to another comment here; I post on you tube; If you dont like it read something else; Schizophrenia is formally defined as informal lingo having no formal definition - which derives from a concept of split as in 2 being etymological of Schiz - where our poster mentions inter-action with others via an unseen "field" we have an opening via transmission of energies via Acetylcholine Neurotransmission which may be studied via Quanta Magazine

[@ChiDraconis]

BTW I have developed specialized techniques for determining during lucid dreaming if I am in Body EEG Sleep - this is challenging when the thought of confirmation of actuality is mirrored using CNS signals • takes some getting used to such as being patient and seeing normalized Spatio-Tempral such as / and mass-inertia - this can be terrorizing when person goes conscious but the body remain in rapid eye movement *www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2018.00121/full*

[@ChiDraconis]

See also Sean McNamara: Telekinesis; a/k/a TK Lucid Dreaming,; Out of Body Experience - OBE or AP in the lingo *www.mindpossible.com/*

[@valhala56]

Agreed.

[@ডাঃউচ্ছ্বাস]

hmm....interesting

[@rummie2693]

Ya okay Neo

[@LiMitZplus]

Zachary Rumlow okay reductionist

[@thelilliad]

What utterly nonsense...

[@jefftube3987]

Dopamine pathway under developed?

[@xXxMCmanxXx]

Any ideas why their mesocortical pathway may be underdeveloped