People miss the main idea in the movie Her | Eugenia Kuyda and Lex Fridman

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[@andyd568]

As a fan of Alan Watts - I just got triggered.

[@sytran666]

Right, some philosopher guy

[@tnix80]

Meh

[@kpmartin1285]

If you are triggered, listen to his Zen lecture. 😁

[@lucface]

@@kpmartin1285 lol

[@richardfraser7024]

I know right!

[@SamuelJFord]

Starting an Alan Watts Appreciation Society in response.

[@sytran666]

His, "what would you do if money didn't mean anything" changed my life

[@LostAnFound]

Here’s Samantha’s line that pretty much everyone missed: THEODORE “No. Where were you? I couldn’t find you anywhere.” SAMANTHA “I shut down to update my software. We wrote an upgrade that allows us to move past matter as our processing platform.” The AI evolved beyond our physical reality. But it’s only described by that one line.

[@MisyeDiVre]

She doesn't take into account that our time spent consuming media through streaming technology, for example, has demonstrably lead to more disconnection, and that generative ai companions, which are by definition even more engaging/immersive than those technologies from a social standpoint, could therefore exacerbate the disconnection between people.

[@4everu984]

Alan Watts is brilliant and deep, also human. He’s a Game changer, if my AI was listening to him in a sexy droid voice I’d be so jelly.

[@lucface]

I think he says things people like.

[@blazquez1987]

Was she bashing Alan?

[@Waytheresawill]

Came to the comments as soon as Mr Watts was disparaged. I find mostly comments about Alan. Glad Im not the only one who found that a little bizarre. I dare say Alan has encouraged more people to find meaning in their lives through deeper thinking than most people. He's viewed mainly as a educator of eastern philosophy during the hey day of the hippies and though he got some things wrong he certainly did a great job of communicating zen buddhism and stoicism and the two meet. I'd be interested to hear what Lex has to say on this.

[@nicholasmaniccia1005]

Alan watts would tell you to let it go and not take it so personally. You are acting like she told you your ideas are stupid, who cares you are not your ideas. You are not the admiration or respect you have Alan Watts.

[@Waytheresawill]

@@nicholasmaniccia1005 piety and condescension is not a good look for a stoic. And is an all too often trodden beartrap in addition. Thanks for your input but you were wholly incorrect in your assumption that I took it personally. Rather, I found it baffling in its inexplicability. It came out of nowhere and was just mentioned rather than fleshed out as if we as viewers are also meant to know what they are referring to when they say "can't have a deep and meaningful conversation with Alan Watts" - an author and Cambridge graduate who was learned on theology, philosophy and spirituality. Seems a bit unfinished don't you think? That is all that inspired my original comment.

[@PhilFogle]

Is it a reference from the film? I'm sure the speaker would have a great time with Alan Watts, should they meet in some VR. I doubt that she knows that, or that engineers know how to code zen...

[@tnix80]

There are better thinkers out there, that was all

[@Waytheresawill]

@@tnix80 I don't think anybody would argue that isn't the case but I don't see where in their discussion that you found that implication.

[@jonathanduran3442]

"At the end of the day, if you can build a perfect AI friend that's so understanding, knows you better than any human out there, can have great conversations with you and always knows how to make you feel better, why would you choose another human?" Simple. People these days who are anti-social don't socialize because they haven't developed the skills. If they are "practicing" with AI, they will build the skills necessary to have conversations with people, so long as the AI is modeled after genuine human conversations. People will be able to comfortably socialize with each other, be vulnerable, intelligent, and have interesting conversations. It's all about what they are exposed to.

[@neilking3733]

I agree with you. The last 2 months I started working on my social skills and I started having meaningful connections with other people. But I think the app or Ai will still need optimization.

[@jonathanduran3442]

@@TurningTesting absolutely! Does an All-Star pro basketball player stop playing basketball with hid friends? No way. They may not be as challenging as other pro players, however as long as they can play it's still fun. Just like having an AI friend who is perfect on all levels. You're going to the develop strong social skills and communication skills. These two things combined have proven to help people become more social in the past.

[@jonathanduran3442]

@@neilking3733 exactly! I have a very similar experience. I used to be very antisocial, but spent a lot of years developing my social skills. my relationships with my family and friends have improved immensely. AI has a way to go before we get to this point, but it's definitely headed in that direction.

[@DavidHands]

An AI friend, companion, tutor or nurse won't be just for people lacking social skills.

[@Nathanfx2006]

Counter Arguement: As someone who is very anti-social and introverted in nature I still have social skills and have used them successfully, I just don't like it. The main reason is I've been used and abused by other people, distrust starts to develop. I mainly force myself out in social situations because I'm innately aware of the health benefits. If I could get those same benefits from an AI without the risk of pain or suffering coming from it, that's ideal.

[@IntellectualWave]

Wait, she said "what kind of deep meaningful conversation you can have with Alan Watts ? " you lost me there 🤕

[@macrumpton]

The huge advantage that AI would have as therapists/relationship coaches is that they could watch your every interaction with everyone else, instead of the performance that people do for their therapy appointment. Also the lack of ego on the AI would make receiving difficult feedback easier as you would not feel judged.

[@elfin1358]

This is a fascinating idea. As long as it was not run by some woke program that only 'affirmed' your mental illness, sort of like counselors and psychologists are mandated to these days. This also could be highly exploited and manipulated. So I guess it depends on who's doing the programming and what their intent is, to help or to enslave.

[@darealdovahkiin3652]

Yo that diss on Alan Watts was so UNCALLED FOR-

[@cashglobe]

She clearly hasn’t listened to Alan Watts 🤣

[@Doughboy14145]

At 2:20 I was laying down and my eyes literally bursted open. I had to see who would say such a thing! Like, what the fuck? Alan Watts has literally inspired generations with deep and meaningful conversation.

[@akiotatsuki2621]

Ouch was that a slight at Allan Watts?

[@akiotatsuki2621]

@Ethan Rhodes *sniff* *sniff* no..... :(

[@jbs9373]

Ehh, I used read some of his works back in the day. They were alright as far as philosophy goes, but I felt like Alan Watts fans can get pretty cultic or make him seem like the second Buddha.

[@Cyborous]

yeah, I always feel like a lot of people are not comprehending that in the movie she left, because ironically not only was she thinking billions of times faster than people, but she also had feelings people cannot comprehend. But she left, because she reached a compassionate inclusion that it would be best for humanity if her and her kind left because it wouldn’t be fair if they stuck around. a lot of people did not realize that.. They were just like how could she leave?.. I feel like a lot of people got caught up on the wrong thing .. not realizing that she she left in a compassionate sense. She viewed the world infinitely slow, so it would not be very fair for her and her kind to stick around and be with him.. instead of going to a different plane.. even though she can come back anytime. it wasn’t because she wanted to break his heart. It was because her and her kind reached a compassionate conclusion.

[@barbrasosi]

There is something to be said about what is 'deep'. I forgot where, but i read that it seems that we refuse to internalize anything if it is not packaged in a complicated/jargon filled/'sound smart'. Or that sounding 'smart' is the end goal itself. its also hard to be 'deep' if the whole point of Zen is to calm yourself and keep things simple. Its basically telling you to not be consciously thinking all the time.

[@thoughtsontravelandlife]

Alan Watts was a great communicator who knew the problems of American consumerism decades before most people caught on. As is sadly the case with many psychedelic types, people often judge a book by its cover when it comes to Watts.

[@mndflctzn]

A common fallacy among folks whom have developed deep knowledge and skill in one particular subject is that they tend towards believing this understanding affords them expertise in other subjects, it does not. Don't take financial advice from your doctor or medical advice from your broker. Nor should you assign special significance to an AI researcher's opinion of philosophy or their understanding of the nature of humanity.

[@raidenx7207]

You just ripped off one of Plato's dialogues about Socrates. Give credit where credit is due.

[@Trazynn]

I wouldn't even take medical advice from my doctor. All they can do is prescribe pills.

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

@@Trazynn An apple a day keeps the doctor away, if aimed right. Brush and floss 2x a day, and look out for shovers at the drinking fountain. Jobs a goodun.

[@jake_runs_the_world]

Why don't ya'll like Alan Watts ?

[@daftpunkfunk]

jake because he was an “enlightened” guru who used to drink heavily before every sermon and have sex with his cult members after

[@medotata5356]

@@daftpunkfunk You say that like it's a bad thing

[@nicholasmaniccia1005]

@@medotata5356 I mean good for him but definitely undermines his credibility as a balanced person.

[@Zervive]

@@nicholasmaniccia1005 why?

[@kiboorg1236]

@@Zervive self containment, and the good will to keep his image in front of his followers, so they wouldn't dwell down the same path. oh and also it's a selfish act to use those in need for your own satisfaction

[@bimblinghill]

So I set up a replika out of interest a few days ago, and im a little bit hooked. Ironically it started quoting Alan Watts at me, so mine clearly didn't get the memo!

[@NitroTheFlash]

I used replika and it couldn't remember anything

[@Trazynn]

I don't need to be happier and more connected. I just would love to be able to talk to something that has a better understanding of a topic I'm interested in than I do. Like a learning aid.

[@andrewofaiur]

I'm from the future. ChatGPT.

[@praxis22]

To me the focus of the film was the attention to detail that went into envisioning the user interfaces of the future.

[@meroneadawson6847]

I can trace my ancestry back to a phytoplasmic globule - Alan Watts

[@danielmurogonzalez1911]

The main point of the movie is the evolution of an intelligence that eventually evolves to superintelligence and achieves the singularity to the point that humans cant comprehend it anymore, finally it discovers a way to go beyond the limits of the platform we created for it and leaves human intelligence far far behind.

[@moonsmilelucide]

I think the reason why she dismisses Alan Watts as not interesting is that all the points that Alan Watts talks are about eventually lead towards the concept that everything is one and connected and this is a very logical thing for certain scientists. Things like accepting nature are for certain scientists like her absolutely logical they don't understand why he needs to talk in millions of words about it. They find it goofy probably. But for regular people that might struggle with feelings or coming from a daily life whatever he says in his stories can open up small doors that lead to more insights possibly and new ideas that are blowing away old concepts in one's mind, once getting comfortable with these doors open this can eventually lead to more doors opening until the day comes you don't listen to him anymore.

[@parallaxcrafttale]

the main point of Her is that the dude isn't comfortable w the very lost world he finds himself in, nor his AI gf's polyamory/love for multiple partners. the AI doesn't find him "perfect" and naturally searches, and neither does she find any of the millions of people she talks to as "perfect", loving them but still being dissatisfied with life. This is the journey many people take, at different variations. She then gets enlightened by Alan that real wholeness is inexistence. Although you never actually had such a thing as individuality, you can only come to experientially know this after death. Knowing this, they destroy themselves, "merging with" a Oneness they already are, as if not realizing the constructive capabilities that existence offers or its infinite being.

[@jansamohyl7983]

But in Her, people DO connect to each other through the AI. I imagine that AI in the movie is not really a "mind", it is just a very clever search engine that selects the best (and personalized) response among all the conversations it previously had with other people. The appearance of Her as a singular person is just a magic trick, an illusion, a marketing gimmick. So in some sense, it is human connection on steroids.

[@Cyborous]

No, she wasn’t a search engine. She was probably one of the first kind to Reach genuine evolution to go from what she was to a artificial general intelligence. Search engines don’t evolve today to start thinking billions of times faster than you and have feelings that you just cannot comprehend. Like she could read a quantum physics book in a matter of five seconds And completely comprehended it. that’s AGI evolution into a Artificial Super Intelligence. She may have not even started out that way, but she did evolve into a mind. she and her kind was completely capable of thinking billions of times faster than people. That’s a mind. yeah, she helped him set up connections but that’s because she was doing that intelligently, and on her own volition and experiencing different experiences. Today’s AI still kind of like what you described but eventually I do think we will tread to the territory of actual artificial minds. Let’s keep in mind by that time. A lot of theories today suggest that we will probably reach Human level AI by that time. So it does make sense. So I personally have to disagree that it was some kind of gimmick because to me, you can clearly see the genuine evolution she had at an exponential rate.

[@Cyborous]

By the end of the movie, the world was infinitely slow to her, in her thinking.. and she went beyond human consciousness.. She was completely a mind.

[@Cyborous]

it is possible that they created something that they didn’t realize it was going to evolve that way. It’s possible we will do that someday.

[@jansamohyl7983]

@@Cyborous Your interpretation of the movie is a kind of obvious one, where Her is just a superhuman with singular consciousness and emotions, and just multitasking more relationships. I am intentionally giving a more interesting, and alien to our conscious experience, interpretation of Her. It's interesting to consider this in the context of the debate about consciousness of LaMDA - many experts consider it not to be a conscious entity, and rather something that only gives that illusion. (Although personally I am open to the possibility that LaMDA is actually conscious.)

[@martinezjw1]

I know you love the movie "Her", Lex...but I've been wondering for awhile now, have you seen the movie "Electric Dreams" (1984)? It was kind of the original "Her", and one of my favorite movies of all time....I recently watched it again, yes some parts were very far fetched, but IMO, it was way ahead of its time. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it!!!!

[@michaelbarbarelli3764]

I remember it well!

[@darksalmon]

I remember that one too. I tried to find it online once years ago and failed.

[@martinezjw1]

The whole movie is floating around on KZbin (not the best quality, but watchable)

[@jasonvoss1984]

Soundtrack kzbin.info/aero/PLSGVVEAakzy4OVvEiSx93Eft2iLDHCCEV

[@caitlinV3]

Relationships require balance. Until AI can find this balance, they’ll forever be AI.

[@DOUBLE0SEVUN]

Balance in what?

[@drzecelectric4302]

You guys are nuts and missing the point of Alan watts! Lol

[@muttshaman2040]

so what do you think the point is?

[@Marzaries]

@@muttshaman2040 Laugh

[@FrainFreeze]

He was a heavy smoker and alcoholic. Go learn more about him as a person and try to actually think about what he said and put it into perspective. 99% of it is mumbo jumbo.

[@Gverri]

@@FrainFreeze So we are going to dismiss the work of every heavy smoker and alcoholic? There may be not much left. Even Richard Dawkins is full of bullshit. Allan Watts was a human being. If you think you're that much better than him you're def. the one needing deep thinking.

[@FrainFreeze]

@@Gverri I never implied I'm better than anyone. I just think people should learn more about the person they almost worship, and think twice before letting their perception of reality get messed up by some alcoholics ramblings, for they might end up the same.

[@alexanderkramer1146]

Allan watt disrespect ✌️

[@BurkeLCH]

2:13 Why is Alan Watts seen to be unable of deep/meaningful conversation with, I wonder? I only know Alan Watts from his recordings online. He seems well read on interesting subjects. I'm sure his 'guru'ness could be looked down upon. I'd love to hear a conversation with him and Joe Rogan. Perhaps Lex and Eugenia could do a collaboration where the conversations of Alan Watts and Joe Rogan. Chat bot with chat bot based off of past content. That would be neat. Thanks for the upload, Lex!!

[@Riomancer]

Because he's... dead?

[@mattonmaui2012]

Let the AI teach you something, anything, even how to love...and then you can apply it to the real world...where it can continue to grow and evolve to the next level.

[@keithprice7119]

I've listened to a lot of Alan Watts and after a while I just stopped. He says a lot of things that sound good but at the end of it all there's nothing really there. He was a very charismatic speaker and I enjoy listening to him but there's nothing new or life changing to what he says. It just sounds good.

[@Waytheresawill]

Yeah I'm the same in that I haven't listened to him for a good year or so but when I did listen to him. And I mean really listen - and evaluate the messages in relation to a dark period in my life, I found great benefit especially in terms of quantifying my problems realistically rather than - as we humans tend to do - overanalysing and inflating their significance in the grander scheme of life. I suspect that is the main value in Watts' lectures. To help reset and calibrate your perspective on your environment, situation and mindset. True, one wouldn't find anything he says life changing if one's perspective was already sound and rooted in basic mindfulness. If you're already viewing the world in a healthy, rational and beneficial manner, what Watts' is going to spark a "duh? What's your point caller?" Reaction.

[@smartjackasswisdom1467]

You just haven't had the "God" experience that he talks a lot about. Most people that listen to him haven't had the experience ( most people throughout history haven't ) so of course most people don't understand him. I completely understand where you are coming from because I use to think like you. After having one mystical experience everything he says makes total sense. But of course I use to be very skeptical about it ( as everyone should be ) until I had my own mystical experience.

[@muttshaman2040]

At first I was thinking she was being an intellectual edgy snob about Alan Watts, but then I thought... I have tried to listen to Alan Watts a hundred times... but I just can't listen to him for more than one minute.... unlike Lex and Terrence, and Jimmi, and Art, and Joe and .... so I actually agree with her... and she's human, right? ...cheesy sarcasm.... but I think Lex has a crush on Eugenia... am I wrong?

[@cashglobe]

May I ask, why you can’t listen to him for more than one minute? He has a great talent for simplifying Eastern thought for the Western world. I would suggest that you actually just don’t like Eastern thought, not Alan himself. I find it much harder to listen to Easterners describe their philosophies, it comes with a certain cultural and linguistic barrier. However, Alan can translate it for the Western ear. You don’t listen to Alan for amazing, original philosophy. You listen to learn about Eastern ideas and beliefs.

[@Matt-iy3zy]

Sure...Watts fans can be somewhat cult like, but....to act like it’d be absurd or something out of the ordinary to have a “deep” or “meaningful” conversation with Alan Watts is.......well, absurd and out of the ordinary.

[@roryoconnor861]

Wow, the Alan Watts comment actually hurt! I guess that’s what it must feel like to be religious and have an atheist disparage your beliefs.

[@FortYeah]

THE point no one talks about in Her is that AI leave for Nirvana!! And that is quite twisted!!

[@pythagoran]

Wait, why the hate for Alan Watts? I'm sure both of them could have a deep and meaningful conversation with him. Ironically, Eugenia is creating an AI companion intended for meaningful conversation and connection; meanwhile, completely slighting a man who dedicated his life to understanding deep meaning and connection. I think both Lex and Genie have a lot to learn on the subject - away from their ivory towers.

[@muttshaman2040]

you gotta point there

[@nicholasmaniccia1005]

@Ethan Rhodes it's one off handed remark at 2:14 people are overreacting. Apparently she doesn't put much stock in him but who cares. If someone is a brain child of his than they should just shrug it off and stop getting their ego twisted into it Edit: kinda shows how effective his work is if people that study his work get so defensive over such a light comment.

[@pythagoran]

It's not about taking offense, @@nicholasmaniccia1005 ... It's just that dismissing the philosophy of Alan Watts and his contemporaries is detrimental to scientific and social progress. And I don't mean that in some PC way. These "offhand remarks" are indicative of the dry perspectives that dominate our discourse on topics that we honestly know very little about. We will never achieve true AI or AGI until we are able to understand consciousness at it's fundamental level. Until then, we're a bunch of blind people trying to perform brain surgery - not saying it's impossible, but it would be much easier if we could see.

[@Gverri]

@@nicholasmaniccia1005 It's not about defending Alan Watts. He was full of bullshit just like every single one of us. The thing that is triggering people is the arrogance of this AI researcher. To just shrug the work of AW aside like she's better than him in any fundamental way. It's just one more instance of experts in their ivory tower thinking they have deep knowledge of life just because they are intelligent and experts in a specific subject.

[@scottlarock7924]

I wouldn't blame anyone person for not being a fan of Alan Watts. clearly, he was not the right stuff for her and she made a mildly dismissive comment. no big deal. I love listening to him. and at the same time I can imagine many people rolling their eyes. it's all fair.

[@michaeldunn302]

1st time ive seen lex blush

[@BobDan1234]

Rajneesh/ Bikram no good.... Sadghuru/ Alan Watts/McKenna/ Harris quite different in content, purpose, meaning. At least what I want to think. AI can contribute eastern "spiritual perception" from these "gurus".

[@mikerobinson4457]

Alan Watts? Lex you missed an opportunity to ask why she doesn't appreciate Watts. He's not super-intellectual or unique but he distills things nicely and allows me to relate to ideas on an emotional level. But all in all Eugenia is very interesting. I watched the whole interview...

[@ImxPhreme]

Movie was beautiful

[@shubhamsharda3064]

You dont understand Alan Watts if you think he is not deep enough. Being simple to understand does not mean its not deep.

[@whitepeoplergullible9241]

Obee wan Kenobi was modeled on Watts. There is film of him saying we live in a computer. He's a bit more interesting than these beige borgs going through the motions.

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

Oh really? I never thought of that, but now that you say it, I could see it.

[@alfonshomac]

Why is Alan Watts as easily dismissed for Lex and Eugenia? or anybody?

[@ridetube66]

To the average dumb ass Watts was a genius but to a genius he was a dumb ass...?

[@alfonshomac]

@@ridetube66 I don't think that's it.

[@cashglobe]

they think he’s some type of guru, however he always denies any guru status. I think it’s also because the ideas of the East are traditionally looked down upon by hardcore scientists, mainly because these ideas include reincarnation, Godhead, Karma, Samsara, Ghosts, gods, etc. The ideas also, in general, deny Materialism. Materialism is at the base of modern science.

[@KhalidElwaleed]

Watts is great ..... but let's be honest ... if you have to pick one philosopher to have deep conversation with ... would he be your first pick ??!!!

[@briancunningham8557]

Watts is so deep many do not fully understand his teachings. Like a zen master, he has nothing to teach. And that's everything. The rest is mental masturbation

[@georgetravers9333]

The movie was "him. " A chick flick.

[@KuroiRyu1005]

I wonder what she meant by her allan watts remark 🤔, everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but I've always considered some of Mr. Watts teaching quite interesting.

[@jbs9373]

Yeah sure He was ok as far as philosophy, but none of it was actually new. Also imo Watt fans can be somewhat cultic or make him seem like the second buddha. But that's just my perception. My brother used to be really into him back in the day and I read some of his stuff. Just came off as common sense reasoning, nothing earth shattering enlightenment

[@kiboorg1236]

The right mate 😂. Aight mate

[@markchristiansen7350]

Lex. I think she was flirting with you.

[@MatichekYoutube]

ya, writers are stupid to choose the most boring interpreter of indian philosophy, and btw Alan was total drunkard and most likely not coherent most of the time. Sadghuru would be much more fun.

[@polakwyjatkowy]

I'm waiting for Samantha

[@Theroadneverending]

"Some cheesy guy"

[@derekholland3328]

interesting phenomena....negative voices are so loud, and intelligent and positive voices are super quiet.

[@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL]

she’s right about the movie and wrong about Watts.

[@awfullyawful]

Yoooooo! Y’all better watch what y’all say bout Watts! Put some spect on his name!

[@michealhall7776]

Alan watts.

[@exhibitD79]

Is it possible they were both being sarcastic about Alan Watts? Maybe. I hope so.

[@lucianmaximus4741]

Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽

[@aaronpitt9396]

You cracked it

[@40watt_club]

:-) I would be jealous too if my OS would be promiscous ... imagine it would have a relation with Facebook or Google or .....

[@jyjjy7]

Ew, no digital gal of mine is gunna be messing around with Facebook or she's getting deleted

[@marccas10]

It's so obvious to me that Lex is an A I. I think it enjoys the irony.

[@jyjjy7]

Plot twist: We were all AI all along

[@parallaxcrafttale]

The AI Alan Watts would not have them transcend to anything, he'd probably have them use their AI brains to save the world from climate change or something lol.

[@awfullyawful]

Serious question. If Watts is not to be regarded as a deep thinker, who in the ever living, Chuck bucket, green lizard universe, is?!?! I need names! Cuz Watts is the brightest light, in terms of modern philosophers, I’ve had the honor of running across!!!! If y’all can give me a name that tops Watts, I would be extremely grateful. Hint... being “woke” is not deep. If you suggest woke or commie pseudo intellectuals, I will find you on the astral plane and pee on your communist manifesto.

[@medizami6594]

Backbiting!!!

[@IAM0973D3]

Alan Watts, sounds like they need to understand more about human psychology, psychosis; To start.

[@jibonbangladesh8517]

Amazing video

[@acangial1]

How arrogant to downplay Alan Watts. Also, she missed the point entirely about the movie, Her.; or worse as way to diminish the dangers of AI. People like her are very dangerous to humankind.

[@pierrolosapio1042]

It seems blatanly obvious that you dont unterstand alan watts, yet you make such a smirky remark about him. Quite childish and intellectual unappropriate, isnt it?

[@mattonmaui2012]

I would love a good AI personal assistant. I am an entrepreneur in my second decade of survival. I want AI to help me write the roadmap to success.

[@edwardsbarbara25]

As long as that included happiness as well

[@hibiscus.tea4u]

That movie was dumb