Percy's Dream - Vox Machina, Ep. 30 | Critical Role Demystified

In the aftermath of their first assassination, Vox Machina figures out what to do next in Whitestone.
CW: Suicide (14:33 - 14:48), foul language
Chapters:
00:00 - Lesson: What Percy/Taliesin Knew, And How Matt Writes Adventures
05:15 - Lesson: Invisible Insight Checks
09:04 - Recap: Tunnel Fight
11:34 - Recap: Finding Allies
15:58 - Recap: New Intel and a New Plan
20:47 - Outro
You can watch the full episode here:
Episode 30 - Stoke the Flames
• Stoke the Flames | Cri...
Matt Mercer’s Corruption Rules for 5e: www.dmsguild.com/product/2307...
#criticalrole #dnd #dungeonsanddragons #ttrpg #rpg #wizardsofthecoast
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[@SupergeekMike]

Have you ever used a corruption mechanic in your own games?

[@VictorPereira-sj7wb]

I'm currently using one right now in my Icewind Dale campaign. It's been pretty fun watching my players crying and throwing up when I ask for a charisma saving throw. (This is a joke)

[@motormouth6093]

No, but I did make an anxiety mechanic once lol

[@l0stndamned]

Not the 5.0 version, but I have used a 3.5 version that was mostly taken from the Conan d&d book with a few bits taken from L5R's shadowlands taint. Was mainly using it as a way to show folks getting contaminated by fiends in a setting that didn't use alignments.

[@BigKlingy]

I think they mentioned in the Fireside Chat 2nd C1 wrap-up that they're an adaptation of the "taint" rules from an older edition, with the name changed because Matt (rightly) didn't trust the players to take "taint rules" seriously.

[@jrm48220]

Yes. One of my favorite settings is Ravenloft. The temptation of and corruption by the dark powers is a central theme of that setting.

[@jameseustice7144]

Taliesin is such a great player, especially when it comes to the backstories. Many a GMs dream really. Comes up with the basis of a good concept, just enough for him to work with, then goes to Matt and says "Go nuts, I trust you entirely." Pretty spectacular.

[@worldscoolestperson7672]

He must have centuries of experience.

[@SnekkySnek]

@@worldscoolestperson7672 id argue a few millenia

[@orgixvi3]

My roommate gave me that exact scenario for our current campaign. 😂

[@spacerogue8382]

I'd wager to say his backstory isn't that special as a concept, its even quite cliché. Its just that it was handelend by people who knew how to make it work, now THAT is rare. On top of that Mat had a plan, it started with taking back Whitestone from the Briarwoods and pulling Percy trough the fire, exposing that his cruelty wasn't natural, it was executed brilliantly and Tal was one hell of teamplayer.

[@Jaalgo]

damn Matt really killed it with that Geralt costume didn't he

[@vi8440]

he always absolutely kills it during halloween

[@TailsMotto]

he always absolutely kills it

[@MrPope7]

I came here to praise his Geralt too!

[@dolphin64575]

When Matt did the "I'll roll for you" it blew my mind! The very act of rolling low can give players suspicion that they're missing something, so that's a great tactic to enforce in-game knowledge.

[@shadowscall7758]

Secret checks are RAW in Pathfinder, which Critical Role started as.

[@dolphin64575]

@Shadowscall775 that's so neat! I was just thinking today how the world might be different if CR didn’t switch from Pathfinder when they started streaming

[@abrilvonbunny6205]

I love how Kiki uses so many new spells creatively in this arc. The ones to restore nature, the tree, hallucinatory terrain...

[@lugh.i]

I liked Marisha's creativity for the first part of the campaign, but it sometimes got in the way of the session. Some problems were things like trying to use cantrips to do "big things" or when she felt frustrated because spells didn't have the flexibility she had in mind for certain situations. I'm glad all the players were more conscious of how spells worked as they leveled up. I do think she would be more than excellent at playing Mage: The Ascension (or other Mage RPGs).

[@abrilvonbunny6205]

@@lugh.i true but some of her big spells were lost in the small writing too by Maty being a stickler to things he didnt really understand and to bad maths...(tsunami for Thordak, some od the move earth, some of the misty step/gaseous form or whstever its called) I understand it was his call to make of course, but she probably suffered the Wife treatment (? I REALLY dont understand the numbers either tbf but I would have given her the opportunity to waste a bigger spell slot to try and balance that creatuvity with the rules...

[@abrilvonbunny6205]

@@lugh.i is mage more leaniant with spell rules? I may have to check that one out ♡ even if just for curiosity. Thank you

[@lugh.i]

@@abrilvonbunny6205 I agree on "big spells should do big things", I generally let my players "do more" with some big spells if it helps the narrative but, specifically for the Tsunami incident, Marisha didn't see the casting time was 1 minute and Matt (trusting her and not really checking) let it be. Then the rest of the "feels bad" momento happened and it could've avoided by reading the spell or communicating your intention. "Matt, this spell has a 1 minute casting time and I want to do this, would it be possible to do it?" would had saved the night.

[@lugh.i]

@@abrilvonbunny6205 Mage uses a totally different system for magic. You have different "spheres", which are general area expertises of magic, defined enough for you to understand what they cover and vague enough to reward player creativity. You combine the spheres when casting a spell and state what you want to achieve. Your GM adjusts the difficulty and then you roll. Miscommunication is less likely because your intention is always stated. Marisha's creativity would shine on that system.

[@Lena-fc9ce]

marisha's excitement about the cassandra reveal is so contagious! every table should have someone as hyped and invested as her, i think

[@CLNCJD94]

Me watching the introduction, “Hell yeah you’re going to do videos on campaign building? Awesome I can’t wait to learn for my first campa-“ The literal fly on the wall at 2:53, “Don’t mind me I’m also just here to take notes.”

[@datDrowningFish]

10:25 the way Matt describes Vicious Mockery finishes was so interesting to me when I first watched the show, having the enemy be essentially demoralized to death. I tend to describe the target of psychic damage as feeling intense head pain and sometimes nosebleeds to give it a physical outcome. What other ways could a psychic damage be shown having tangible effects?

[@chadthelake8974]

Generally I describe psychic damage as the enemy busting a vein when it gets a kill, or a bad headache when it doesn't

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Psychic damage is a difficult one to show tangible effects for, because of it being, well... explicitly non-tangible. Things like a loss of morale, depression, weakened resolve, those are examples of how psychic damage *should* present itself. But it's hard to convey that without revealing the inner workings of the target's mind.

[@TwilitbeingReboot]

In the most recent session I ran, I tried out narrating one of a player's "kills" nonlethally. They described trying to pierce the tank on an enemy's back-mounted weapon with their arrow, so when their attack landed and dropped the enemy from full health to zero, I asked their permission to have the enemy dive through a nearby doorway and spend the rest of the encounter frantically struggling out of the straps. It's rare for combats to last more than ten rounds, so even a minute's distraction could realistically take someone out of the fight... and describing the adjacent room filling with acrid green smoke was a fun way to telegraph how dangerous that weapon could've been, since the enemy never got off a shot with it. I enjoyed the outcome, so I'm likely going to add this to my permanent bag of tricks. Psychic damage seems like a natural candidate for this if there's no convenient cause of accidental death around. (I've often described it in the past as enemies becoming critically distracted or enraged, leading to a fatal mistake. I don't super love the idea of turning suicide into a game mechanic just casually.)

[@wolfox7776]

it looks like you're reading this episode to Oreo as a Bedtime story.

[@manueltorresart2345]

We're close to the legend of Scanbo. I totally forgot about that GM trick of rolling dice instead of your players to hide the result and I should take note of that because it may come handy.

[@shadowscall7758]

It's a rule in Pathfinder, which Critical Role started as.

[@manueltorresart2345]

@@shadowscall7758 Didn't know that thanks. But is easily exportable in any other system (depending on the situation of course) and could be helpful.

[@Valbu]

“How can a mockery can kill someone?” I think by making the enemy cry until they can’t breath or they have a stroke.

[@Adamantium93]

I think a stroke or anneurism would be a good way to describe it. Like, just a bit too much more stress for their body to handle under the circumstances.

[@TheThezenith]

You talk about Matt bringing lots of Immovable rods into Campaign 1, but also in Campaign 2 when he creates the Dunamancy, graviturgy stuff he creates a spell to make any object a temporary immovable rod as well with the 2nd level spell immovable object ahahahah

[@abrilvonbunny6205]

Oh man as a Scanlan and Sam super fan, I cant wait for next episode.... Bards man... Riegel... The amazing feats of Scanlan the bard... as big as he says he is... he never sings his own Real praise. Vox Machina may never know what a badass he was that night... it irks me that in the animated series he just gets lucky.

[@sillyking1991]

i mean, considering Sam had an input in LOVM im assuming that Sam was overall fine with that direction. its even possible that, even though *Sam* was incredibly competent for that scene, he never intended for it to be *scanlan* being the competent one.

[@abrilvonbunny6205]

@@sillyking1991 ye, Sam probably was the one who pushed that way, again... RIEGEEEEEEL * shakes fist to the sky*

[@Abalabexabandraba]

I also get the distinct feeling that the LOVM versions of the characters aren’t supposed to be as strong as the characters were in the original campaign. I think making it accidental was a way to let him still have it without changing the power level so much

[@JHawkeye9000]

Immovable rod is one of my favorite magical items. It never got any serious uses but my players joked about putting it at the top of my paladin's blind mothers' stairs and it's been making me laugh for years.

[@Peter_Cordes]

Immovable Rod + old people just made me thing: can you use one as a walking stick or cane that's actually just the head / handle part? RAW "you can use an action" to press the button to toggle it, so you could only take one step every other round if that's the only way to activate it. But if you keep your hand on it the whole time, it seems narratively reasonable.

[@bristowski]

This is a good channel. This is a good series. I like Mike.

[@steegen101]

I really wish Matt used the "rolling for players" trick in the new Dimension 20 episode that released last night. There was some clear metagaming in how players feel about player characters' deception rolls.

[@worldscoolestperson7672]

Metagaming in what way? Genuine question.

[@ganondorf797]

@@worldscoolestperson7672 A player used Silvery Barbs on another player's deception roll because he had the crit he needed to succeed, then several players asked to do insight checks again, like, 5 minutes later, with a bit more information. That being said, D20 is a pretty different beast than CR lengthwise, so the players' ability to keep secrets from each other could actually slow and hamper the show, and even the players volunteered some information by the end.

[@pleimer7026]

@@ganondorf797 That's actually a really interesting example because Silvery Barbs says that it triggers on successful ability checks. Depending on how strict you are with what you consider metagaming this aspect of Silvery Barbs would be useless. Description of Silvery Barbs Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself succeeds on an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw.

[@ganondorf797]

@@pleimer7026 well some ability checks are obvious while they're happening, some a lot less, and deception is not necessarily obvious. I'm not saying I wouldn't allow it, but I'm not sure either the character would have done it if the player didn't know the other player needed a crit.

[@BigKlingy]

Interesting, in the show the "offer up the souls" part of the bargain wasn't revealed until the end of this arc, and as a twist that both Percy and the rest of the party had no idea of. It definitely makes more sense that way in a tv show or movie. Amazingly that "it's symbolic" theory for the final gun barrel turned out to be pretty close to what Matt planned: if Percy killed everyone on his list, 6 more names would've appeared, and this would've continued indefinitely. Matt's broken laughter when announcing the peeing Vicious Mockery was a HDYWTDT is one of my favourite moments of the show. As for Corruption points, it was poetic that only Percy ever gained them in this arc (I think), so it almost felt like a Percy-specific mechanic. Marisha's reactions to big reveals or developments were always great and are... definitely something you miss if you're listening in podcast form. Next episode is one of my favourites in the history of the show, I still re-watch it from time to time. Looking forward to the Demystified. (As far as "boring" episodes of the show go, the parts between Vorugal and the end of the City of Brass were my least favourite part of Campaign 1, there's some nice developments but I believe it's one of the longest stretches of no combat on the show, at maybe 4-5 episodes without any initiative, and there's a lot of time spent preparing Fort Daxio only for the party to plane-jump and leave it vulnerable anyway)

[@williamdehen1241]

16:15 "And then Archie drops a huge bomb" KZbin: "This is a great time for an ad"

[@TheLordofMetroids]

There is a conversation to be had there with Secret vs Public roles. If i could add another wrinkle to the conversation, ive always liked how Brennan will sometimes say the DC of the Role before any dice are thrown. It also doesn't work with evey group, but I do think it adds a bit of an extra layer to dice rolling and character creation.

[@Boundwithflame23]

As a player I love when my DM surprises me with things about my characters’ backstories. One of my characters had partial amnesia. I gave him free reign over the things she didn’t remember and when it came up in game I was pleasantly surprised to see what he’d come up with. And I told him later I was enjoying what he was giving me to play off of. My character wasn’t. She was having a real bad time of it in-game. But I was eating it up.

[@antokun52686]

I like how PF2e handles that GM rolling for players thing. Many kinds of rolls are considered "secret" checks, and the GM just makes the rolls and tells the players what they know (or don't) as a result of said rolls. Usually done for Sense Motive, Knowledge checks, etc, but can be called for at any time.

[@mentalrebllion1270]

Oh! Oh! That’s what we did a few sessions ago. Our wizard cast a spell on the bandits we captured and killed them. Our new paladin and bard were shocked and thought we planned to release them (for backstory reasons, after what the bandits told us, that was unlikely). This prompted a talk between sessions and we outlined that we didn’t actually mind it happening but we definitely were going to be more careful, especially for torture scenes and we discussed that in more detail. We then discussed it in character in the session after so that we curbed some of that behavior behind it. Wizard and I were perfectly fine with this and it actually makes for a more interesting story for us anyway.

[@bouboulroz]

Regarding the hidden rolls, I mostly use them with death saving throws. This is great to add tension. When you don't know if your downed ally is stabilizing or slowly bleeding out, suddenly healing them feels more urgent. And finishing the fight after an ally has been down a few turns becomes really nerve wracking, as the players don't know if their party member survived until they give it a closer look. They only know they're not moving.

[@TheClosetExtrovert]

I'm doing a similar thing as Taliesin right now in one of the campaigns I'm playing in; my character's full powers/memories/name have been sealed away, and while I do have some ideas in mind for what those could be I've told my GM that he can take it in any direction he wants and surprise me. Last session my character ran into an NPC who hinted that they can reveal more about her past, and I'm REALLY excited to see what comes out of that!

[@jamesfoster9613]

My "always present DM item" is the Ring of Mind Shielding. I use it to house an important NPC soul and its basically now a thing that my wife always expects to show up in a campaign. The most famous example is in my Strahd game, the soul of Jander Sunstar is in a ring they found >.>

[@legoman7041]

This was a very cool episode. I was personally inspired by Matt's approach to character based campaigns when making my own, and so far it's been working out. Looking forward to your episode on that subject! I would recommend rechecking the screens on your windows for damage and exercising more caution when opening and closing doors to avoid mosquito hawks getting in.

[@stefanjentoft8107]

I have watched much of this campaign, and all of LoVM so far, but that reveal still gives me chills

[@Just_Leo_kingofgods]

Secret DM rolls always scare the shit out of me I love 'em!

[@mkang8782]

The whole Whitestone arc is just amazing episode after amazing episode. I have pretty much always used hidden rolls for a PC if the situation calls for it. I have a sheet or similar document with relevant modifiers. Of course, if your players create characters in your campaign on DnD Beyond, that information is readily accessible. I also try my best to incorporate PC background/backstory into the campaign.

[@Skip6235]

It’s almost Scanbo time!

[@primalvalor]

YESSSSS more mike content 😭 its a good day

[@SLorraineE]

I'm so excited for the next episode analysis! I think I might watch it with you since I'm now caught up on your videos!

[@ShyyGaladriel]

OMG I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE

[@lolaf1er]

Personally as a player when another player wants to insight me, I prefer to do my own roll and not let them know what I'm adding, but I'm also a very heavy rp player and like having the ability to say what my character might look like in that moment or how easy it is to read them. It also gives me the space to wave off insight if I think it would be more obvious, or that my character would be more forthcoming.

[@thystldown]

I’d like to say I had upcoming potential discussions in mind when I got you the dragon book… but I actually just really like dragons. This was a super fun discussion of this episode - this span of preparatory insurrection plays before the main fight is so juicy, and there’s so much to learn!

[@SupergeekMike]

I’m so excited for the dragon video, I like dragons a lot, too 😁

[@toribiogubert7729]

One stuff I like in VTTs is that you can choose to sho the roll only for the DM. Witch keep the mistery, while keeping the act of roll with the player.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

No Mercy Percy.

[@trently89]

Thank you so much Mike!!! I appreciate what you do and because of you, my players have told me I've stepped up my game as a DM, so i want to say thank you!!

[@SupergeekMike]

Thank you so much, Trent!!

[@alexanderchippel]

The way I describe psychic damage is like having a brain aneurysm or a stroke. Like it's causing neurological damage.

[@Cassapphic]

The very first combat encounter I ever ran had the bard kill a goblin with viscious mockery and I narrated "the goblin looks up at you in a depressive fear, as if lightning strikes behind you like in the tales you've heard of a very easily angered show fighter as it falls onto its own scimitar" (I was referencing the "you should *I dont know if I can say this in a youtube comment* NOW!" image about low tier god, a famously toxic and easily enraged fighting game player.

[@Paradox-es3bl]

"How does mocking someone kill them?" Because it's magic powered by a dead god?

[@smoogieboogie1694]

1:12 Campaign 3 has conditioned me to expect you to say "What the fuck is up with that?"

[@roywilliams1580]

I use a lot of hidden rolls, and have had all my players thank me over long games that it helps replicate and immerse them.

[@sagesaria]

Hoo boy...next episode is one I'm both excited for and kind of dreading. I have a lot of opinions about a particular call and I'm wondering if we think the same about it.

[@TwilitbeingReboot]

4:21 Percival's explanation of the sixth barrel does what every edgelord antihero is doing wrong, right.

[@Navitori]

I've not used corruption in that way, but I have a different version of it. One of my players felt that his Necromancer Wizard didn't fit the rest of the party and asked if he could change sub-class a couple of sessions in. I said sure and immedietly had the idea, based on the premise of the narrative (Dark water is taking over the ocean and causing havoc on land as well). So he now is affected from, un-intentionally, having consumed some of that dark water and over time it brings him down into darkness. He has memory issues after a point, visual changes, exhaustion but also gaining additional powers, etc. To "reset" the effect, he needs to consume the magical essence of certain monsters or magical items, the power of that which is being consumed prolongs the reset. My BBEG gets to partake of the power which he consumes, to a point. Has been interesting so far.

[@MorningDusk7734]

mayfly at 2:52

[@keivonrush384]

I just saw their video compilation of all Halloween costumes

[@Pumpky_the_kobold]

Corruption is an interesting, if a bit cliché thing. I also like the idea of beneficial "corruption" mechanics. Like, "favor", or "dicipline". It's very video gamey, but ehn dealing with very divine orriented campains, it helps creates a system for something more abstract like the concept of "praying".

[@crazyscotsman9327]

Scanbo Scanbo Scanbo! One of the best moments.

[@flamespire2235]

I love odyssey of the dragonlord, its the only third-party cmapaign guide I have in book-form :)

[@DesigningDan]

My suggestion for stealth checks is to have the player roll as normal, and the DM rolls a hidden perception check for whatever the player is trying to sneak against.

[@timothyburbage]

Every game I DM has an immovable rod. It's just fun to see how people can use it

[@Aigis31]

"how exactly does mocking someone kill them?" I assume since it's psychic damage, it's some form of ego death. Their mind recoils so much from the insult that it snaps and leaves rhem comatose or something. But yeah, bards are WEIRD

[@an8strengthkobold360]

Personally I like the idea that the insult isn't actually the attack, it's the bait. Let it trip you up or focus on it & the weak psychic attack gets you.

[@danvgeg]

Percival Medimucal Mike Wazowsky Dumbledorolo the Third

[@lugh.i]

The only right answer.

[@VictorPereira-sj7wb]

yippee new Mike video

[@starrlady4254]

10:34 Yes, yes we are - VERY weird, dahling

[@Standaardnaam]

Wow, you did very well on the pronunciation of your Dutch benefactor.

[@SupergeekMike]

Lol there may have been a pronunciation guide in the notes he sent through Amazon :)

[@cosmicerror7789]

I started watching LoVM without listening to the campaign because I didn't have the energy to do that and had to look up Percy's class at one point because I had assumed he was a hexblade. I told my friend about this, and he laughed, saying "no but I can get how you thought that." And then he started making "hexgun" jokes.

[@lugh.i]

5:18 This reminds me of Pathfinder 2E, which implemented the "some rolls are secret and made by the GM" in their core rules, it makes a lot of sense to use secret rolls for Deception and Perception rolls too, it adds a great element of surprise to the results.

[@mistaree8394]

Regarding secret rolls: I sometimes do a secret roll for my players (that they don't know about) for an appropriate skill and also have them roll. Their roll is only to represent how well the player/cbaracter thinks they did. IE: I roll a 4 for their stealth but they think they are undetected because they rolled an 18, or they think they screw up a diplomacy roll with a 7 but actually I rolled a nat20 and they have deeply moved that nerchant. Other times I want them to know I rolled but not know the result to create drama and tension.

[@TheGreatGooglyMoogly1958]

Wait!! So it’s not kolwalski! My whole life is a lie

[@HeikoWiebe]

I would have loved to hear your take on players using skills like insight on other player's characters.

[@TectonicImprov]

IT'S NOT KUWOLSKI???

[@urktheturtle2988]

I really look forward to Dinosaurs in D&D, because its such a bizarrely controversial topic. Are you also going to touch upon how half the iconic monsters of D&D, such as rust monsters, bullettes, and even owlbears are based on those horrible dollar store plastic dinosaurs all millenials had as children?

[@SupergeekMike]

Ooh that’s not part of the dinosaur video, but maybe another time, that could be fun!

[@urktheturtle2988]

@@SupergeekMike Would have been a great part of the video, but it would also be a great part of another video. Probably a surprisingly long one, as it delves into crazy stuff such as insane origins of some of D&Ds best monsters

[@sillyking1991]

to be fair, for stealth checks in 5e the players *never* have ability to know if they succeeded or not (at least until its revealed that they failed/they don't set off alarms). since in 5e the player always rolls against passive perception.

[@tymemaster]

I always thought it was Kowalski

[@vixevinweria8400]

I hate the idea of persuasion vs insight because if persuasion is higher they should be convinced that you are truthful, but if insight is higher they should be able to see that you are being truthful. So I think the DM should just have every characters passive deception score on hand to use as the DC for when players try to use insight on each other, and if the insight is low then they're hard to read and if the insight is high they can tell something is off about them or they feel that they are being honest, depending on whether they are being deceitful or not.

[@shadowforce4]

I was the one who got you the Pathfinder box.

[@SupergeekMike]

Thank you so much, shadowforce4!

[@damiens4601]

Wait its not Kowalsky ?

[@samuelbutler2566]

Wait, the name *isn’t* kowolsky?

[@lefterismplanas4977]

This seemed a bit brief. Weird

[@darkmystic7764]

Sigh. Vicious Mockery is a spell. Magic kills people in dnd. Bards are not weird.

[@lugh.i]

Agreed.

[@BrandonVout]

But how? Is the mockery just a way of channeling the harmful effects of the spell (no different than singing or chanting) or does the spell amplify the emotionally harmful effects of being mocked to point of physical damage?

[@rowanmurray2842]

@@BrandonVout could be either, however you want to theme it. All the spell states is that you release insults laced with magic, causing the target to take psychic damage as long as it can hear you, though it doesn't need to understand the words. I would theme it as the words carrying the harmful magic to the target, seeing as the enemy doesn't even need to know what you're saying for the spell to work

[@mistaree8394]

Or the spell triggers a stroke, anxiety attack or choking fit.

[@floridabrn]

Hard disagree on this one. If your players are gonna be violent, say, rip someone's tongue out, then the DM should describe as brutally as it would be. You don't get to wear blinders or rose colored glasses in the face of your own actions. This isn't a fairytale where the bad guy falls to their death off screen and leaves little to know blood. You savaged this man, and your reward is the realistically violent description of it. If this disgusts you, but the act of it doesn't, that's your own problem. Don't do it next time.

[@dziooooo]

"This isn't a fairytale" they say, about a game of imagination, storytelling and mythological creatures... Also, you really need to read some actual fairy tales, those are GRIM (pun intended)