Perfecting Oxalic Acid Vaporization (OAV)

[@DNADirekt]

Timing and temperature! Ok, I will watch that. Thanks for that excelent hint mate!! What I have worked out is to do it when it is dark. Then all bees are at home and I get them all.

[@bjggogoman4095]

Great video that’s loaded with worthwhile information. I’m going to give it a try.

[@BUTTEWORKS]

Thank a lot for the video and sharing your experience. Very interesting and educational. Also very well explained.

[@dinobernardi170]

Interesting, very good job well explained. Thank you...good luck!!

[@Swarmstead]

Even though I never treat, it's interesting to see you guys try to figure this stuff out.

[@aaronparis4714]

You must lose a shit load of bees

[@Swarmstead]

@aaronparis4714 😆 your goofball ass is trolling me here too?

[@aaronparis4714]

@@Swarmstead yes any dummy that is not treating should not be able to have bees.any dummy that would even comment on a this video like why are you even watching this you must be having mite issues why would a none treater watch videos on treating mites when they don’t treat this should not even be a topic you comment on your not a beekeeper your a mite keeper that’s not trolling that’s facts

[@aaronparis4714]

@ raise them mites 😂

[@Swarmstead]

@@aaronparis4714 typical treater.

[@Fatschwab]

Really interesting information- good luck with your 2024 test. I think you’re on to something. Let us know how you make out.

[@theunlikelybeek]

Great information. Nice to see a beek take the responsibility & steps to do right by the bees

[@richardwalcott8332]

I appreciate you sharing your video. Let us know how it goes in 2024 please. I'm in Florida always 92 degrees here.😁

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

Nice research. Where did you see the mites breathing in the OA? The foot pad absorption is still the common though. Interesting. Did you happen to see the Fred Dunn interview with Janos Fenyosy?

[@thenewbeejournal]

I wish I have a microscope that powerful, It would be fascinating to see it in action, I would ask some researchers to see if they have it or can make it happen. I haven't seen the interview, it is now in my warch list. Thank you for recommending it. I'm hesitant to use AOE, I've read that it can be hard for the bees unlike OAV. My reason may be personal in that matter. I had cancer three times and I had to swallow radioactive medicine, it messed me up for life, and have to live with the effects, so giving the girls that to eat knowing that may affect them, prevents me from doing it.

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

@@thenewbeejournal oh man sorry to hear about the cancer! We were discussing with Brad, that be man at Faith apiaries, about how the mites heart slows down after exposure to OA. Typically if a critter has lung damage they start breathing more rapidly. If you find anything to the contrary please let us know!

[@thenewbeejournal]

@@MinnesotaBeekeeper I will inquire about all that for sure, it is very interesting. Do we know the source of the study about the mite’s heart? Very deep into the physiology of the mite, I have to read it.

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

@@thenewbeejournal Sorry. Mr. Brad Hoog was the President of the Manitoba Beekeepers asso. We talk to him about every Friday on Sawmill Charlie's live bee chat. Often Ian Steppler stops in.

[@daviddillow2113]

What are you saying the outside ambient temperature must be for the vaporization process to be done correctly?

[@MrJim5280]

Nice presentation! What part of the state are you in? I’m near Victoria TX.

[@thenewbeejournal]

We have yards on different towns west of Houston.

[@NKYHoneyBees]

Great stuff. It always takes some time to master videos haha Always too long when I do it. I don't understand what the preferred temperature is? 324 to 375? What is ideal?

[@thenewbeejournal]

😅 Tell me about it, trying to keep them short is difficult. Temperature is the key to the whole thing. Oxalic acid sublimation begins at 324F and it ends at 375F, if there is anything left when temp increases,it will be burned. Environmental and hive temperature will determined how soon the oxalic gas becomes solid again.

[@NKYHoneyBees]

@@thenewbeejournal Thank you. I have a vaporizer and it's set to 444, but the idea is when OA hits the metal it cools to the right temp. Hard to determine these things.

[@thenewbeejournal]

@@NKYHoneyBeesIf you have noticed, when OA touches the metal, it drops about 80-100 degrees, then a few seconds later it reaches 324F and begins sublimating. The oxalic that physically touch the metal at 444F it’s immediately burned, and whatever is left sublimates. After a couple of treatments you will notice residual of oxalic acid burned in the metal cup, that is burned material that never sublimated because of excess heat, you shake it and continue.

[@NKYHoneyBees]

@@thenewbeejournal es, this makes total sense. Thank you for the details. I am trying to understand the best way to treat these mites. Looking forward to your experiments. Thank you

[@SouthFlaBeekeepingAndMangoes]

Fantastic Vid! Which vaporizer are you using? Assuming you get the timing and temperature correct, how many treatments will you give? I understand why you applied every four days but I'm not clear about what you mean by 7 repetitions. Did you apply seven times on each of the four days? If yes, How long between each application? In the future are you only applying once with no repetitions and not every four days? Sorry for all the questions. I will re watch the vid. Thanks again for posting.

[@thenewbeejournal]

I use the Lorobbees vaporizer, great unit, and even better customer service. For the treatment, once you start and give the first treatment, come back for the next treatment 4 days later, stop once the colony has received 7 treatments. This way, every bee in the colony has received the treatment at least once.

[@SouthFlaBeekeepingAndMangoes]

@@thenewbeejournal got it. Thanks.

[@bogtv2477]

It’s my first year and Im about to treat with oav. i know it is pre set to 400. seems like I should drop it to 380 and go from there. bob binnie says he does 4g per brood box. I might just do what you do and go for 3 instead.

[@daviddillow2113]

There are vaporizers on the market that have a max heating pad temp of 230 degrees. Where does that fall in your research since you mention that the correct temp for actual vaporization versus aerosolizing is 324 to 375? What is happening at 220 to 230?

[@heavymechanic2]

My schedule starts in August after a honey pull when there are some cool mornings to drop the growing mite populations. I try to treat once a month going forward, and 2-3 treatments around Thanksgiving after the brood is gone. I'm in a colder area and overwintering has been a success using good practices.. Backyard bees are more of a threat because they don't treat, the reason for a prophylactic treatment through late summer.

[@thenewbeejournal]

Thanks for sharing. What do you use for trearment?

[@heavymechanic2]

@@thenewbeejournalI use OAV and just purchased a Pro-Vap because the wand was inconsistent with the temp.

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

Morning brother, I'm excited to watch this have to run out the door.

[@thenewbeejournal]

It has been a minute. It is good to see you here, I hope you like it and try it.

[@aaronparis4714]

When I pull my honey I start OA right after I do it every 5 days until December faithfully and I have very low mites I’m in Canada

[@brendawydeven2934]

I also have lorrobees vaporizer. Did you change the temperature on it. If so, to what?

[@thenewbeejournal]

I set it up at 380F

[@brendawydeven2934]

@@thenewbeejournal wow. Mine us set to way lower. Thanks.

[@thenewbeejournal]

@@brendawydeven2934 sublimation happens between 324F and 375F. If it is setup lower than 375F it will take more time.

[@brendawydeven2934]

@@thenewbeejournal thank you

[@jamieeiv]

I just got my vaporizer from them and it was set at 450? Seems like I should lower it?

[@Imkerei2024]

What temp are you using on pro vap ?

[@thenewbeejournal]

We set our vaporizers at 380F

[@MikeChamplin]

Why are you waiting 2 years before treating again? Seems like you'd have success treating each July/August during the local dearth period?

[@thenewbeejournal]

I’m selecting for tolerance on my breeding program. If indeed I am, then my bees should withstand the virus loads transmitted by varroa without the colony collapsing. It was a harsh test, but allowed me to select the colonies that even with high number of varroa, kept growing and adding boxes. I’m not treatment free nor I aspire to be it, I don’t want to keep colonies with high levels of virulence ( which is the test) and affect beekeepers and feral colonies alike; but instead, I want genetics that can take advantage of one proper treatment to get a boost and keep doing what their doing, and continue develop tolerance naturally.

[@Chuckolicious]

Apologies, but I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying that for it to be effective, it needs to be fully gasified so the mites breathe it in? If so, that seems to go totally against what I thought was the established science/protocol. How would oxalic strips and dribble be effective then?

[@LynneBrazosRiverHoney]

So many devices made for sublimating oxalic acid have no temperature control. There's no way to know what temperature the device is operating at. And don't even get me started on the folks using propane insect foggers!

[@thenewbeejournal]

Even the ones with temperature control. I asked them why did they set the temperature at 400F and they couldn't answer other than it was the standard. As per the DIY, it is a futile discussion, most believe that the visible cloud is the treatment, which is completely wrong.

[@DNADirekt]

@@thenewbeejournal They say that the Varrox Eddy has an automatic temperature control. That is what they say! But you just can put 1 gr. into the EDDY.

[@thenewbeejournal]

@DNADirekt thanks dor the comment. I would have to read more about it, Mannlake's video doesn't mention the specifics about temperature. Like I said, some manufacturers don't even know the range, just set at 400F. It seems like a nice product compared to wands, it will still kill some bees, and you still need to be careful with the "wax ladders" bees build to climb the frames, as wax and honey are flammable. I'm not a fun of proprietary technology, meaning the battery is specific, and the product is already $500. It certainly is a convenient option for someone with less than 10 hives. Still recommend the use of a reapirator.

[@Stoneynz]

Mate, Your plan does not sound very good to me at all. All it will take to completely fail is for a hive somewhere within range of your hives to be badly infested with varroa and weak and/or dieing out and your bees will transfer the varroa back to your hives . You would be better to do regular treatments and closely monitor your hives. I have alot of hive sites away from all other hives and what you are doing would work, But I also have some hive sites in areas that other beekeeping outfits have hives , and those hives of mine are constantly year after year getting reinfested with varroa and it is unavoidable. My advice is only try your plan if no other beekeepers have hives within range of your hives. Good luck,,,,Clint from New Zealand

[@thenewbeejournal]

Hello Clint, thanks for writing, what you’re describing is the natural situation in most places, your scenario will definitely affect a couple of hives, keep in mind that it is not likely that not only one hive will rob a weakening colony or dead out, the infestation would most definitely be spread and not focused.on one hive. The treatment, any treatment for that matter, would never be 100% effective in removing the mites, nor would it prevent any mite from coming in the future after the treatment is done. The treatment, its delivery and timing is focused on doing it properly and in the proper time, to kill as many mites while they are still phoretic and bring the population down before exponentially multiplying in the season already identified that they do. Mites are here to stay, no way around it, it is a matter of developing a treatment regiment that gives the best chance to the bees and hinders varroa’s proliferation as much as possible, this with the help of selecting for more tolerant and resistant genetics. We do keep bees in several different locations, but this must be able to work wherever you are.