1940s MODEL RAILROAD DISPLAY AT THE CHICAGO MUSEUM OF SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY TRAIN FILM XD86905c

[@pinetree9343]

That's a great layout!!!

[@alwillcoxen1515]

Went to Chicago on 8th grade class trip in the Spring of '66 with Science & Industry on the list of places to visit in the Windy City that day! Spent most of my time there watching Minton Cronkhite's amazing layout! The scenery was certainly recognizable, having already ridden Hi-level El Capitan to Southern CA and back 6 times by 1966!

[@wiredtvcraze]

Thanks for posting this. I've been looking for many years of any videos/photos of the original MSI Super Chief passenger train with those shiny silver passenger cars that I remember seeing as a kid years ago. That's what inspired me to go into Model Railroading. Thanks!

[@PeriscopeFilm]

Glad we could help! Yesterday we found a 16mm home movie with three streamlined trains - M10000 series - excited to share in future

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

Thanks for resurrecting this film - it is fascinating to see. Milton Kronkite was a superb master craftsman from the 1930s through late 60s, who I know through the pages of the old Model Railroader magazines I own. Considering the limited and basic materials available back then, this is fantastic. If he were here today, working with modern materials - what would he achieve? RIP, Milt, you continue to inspire us with your legacy.

[@jimtrack3786]

I grew up in Chicago in the 1960's. There were telephones along the layout that you could pick up and listen as the layout was described to you. Jackson Park was once beautiful, and Chicago was once a safe city. I don't advise going there anymore.

[@kentfrederick8929]

But, the Museum's parking lot is now in an underground garage. I went for Christmas Around the World recently and felt perfectly safe.

[@calbob750]

Back in the day the average kids train layout consisted of a 4x8 sheet of plywood with painted highways and grass. Plasticville buildings were an addition for realism. Lionel O gauge and American Flyer S gauge were the brands of choice.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

And Varney the choice brand for HO scale.

[@MisterPersuasion]

Very impressive for 1940's technology. There are many model railroad layouts today that don't have such precise detail.

[@pauljensen5699]

Loved this model railroad back in the 1970's and 1980's. Thank you Periscope Film for this Christmas gift!

[@futureaceone3971]

Wow, this brings back memories. I grew up in Chicago. As a child I went to the Museum of Science and Industry many times in the 1950's. To me this train layout was always the highlight of each visit. You could walk all around it and peer through the glass partitions and you could get a birds eye view of it from the balcony above the layout. Like many kids, I had a small model train layout (American Flyer) on a sheet of plywood resting on sawhorses in a corner of the basement of our house. I loved my train setup but every time I went to the museum and saw this ultra detailed massive train layout I was just mesmerized. I'd go home and have dreams about it and wished I could have some of the detail and realism of that museum layout on my own home layout. Thanks for posting this film.

[@cliffkiehl2070]

I visited this layout as well in the 50's. When I visited not all the buildings and machines were active and not all the switches were fully functional. Many of the short sidings did not have working switches, some of the rails in the switch were missing. But it was a 'don't miss' for me.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

The layout was built that way for continuous running. It was never meant to be a full operating session model railroad with switching.

[@edwardburek1717]

That model railway was immense! Naturally, it was fitting that it was housed inside the Chicago Science Museum - that building looks huge!

[@alcosteam]

Got to see this layout back in the early 70's a couple times. Something the video does not mention is that the Santa Fe railroad paid to have this layout built and maintained for a lot of years. What a shame it was not kept up and saved to still be in use as it truly was a museum piece in and of itself.

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

On the positive, we have a new layout now. Should have still been preserved.

[@matthewmoran5297]

I remember seeing this layout as well. I think I was either two or three years old.

[@maverick1956hk]

Yes, my brother in laws father worked for Santa Fe. This railroad was donated to the museum.

[@brianwilson6403]

I've seen it twice as well, '65 and '71. Very cool display. Actually the Museum of Science and Industry is well worth the the trip anyway. The train display, the coal mine, Breedlove's "Spirt of America", the U-505!!!

[@eatonjask]

Actually, the film does credit the Santa Fe, at 0:50

[@bradslepicka3981]

I remember seeing this layout in the 50's! It was amazing!

[@J3scribe]

I visited the museum at least once annually, often more, while growing up in Chicago during the 1960s and '70s. The layout was always a favorite, and it expanded and evolved quite bit from what you see here in the film. It was a masterpiece of model railroad engineering, in O scale, to boot.

[@DEE-o4v]

I'm not so sure it is O gauge.....O gauge has 3 rails....from what I"m seeing here there are only 2 rails....having said that, I believe it to be S gauge (American Flyer).

[@J3scribe]

@@DEE-o4v Lionel O gauge has three rails. Standard O gauge is 2 rails. However, you could be right about it being S. I'm looking well over 40 years into the past, so there's plenty of room for error. I'm certain the answer can be found online somewhere.

[@bobr511]

The layout was technically in Q scale, due to the width of the track that was all hand laid being slightly wider than O scale 2 rail. The engines and rolling stock were indeed O scale examples that were available back in the 1940s. EDIT. My apologies on the engine and rolling stock comments. They were custom built and slightly larger than O scale., but very close to the 1/48 scale.

[@J3scribe]

@@bobr511 Thanks for clearing that up, bob.

[@survivingworldsteam]

@@bobr511 and it was converted to two rail operation later on, I believe. There is a video online that describes the old layout and the evolutions it went through before being replaced by the current layout.

[@jeffreycollier1059]

I saw this amazing layout in 1960 at 6 years old. I think it was Q scale (close to O scale). Truely a lifetime memory.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

2 Rail O Scale. The craftsman's choice at the time.

[@trainliker100]

I probably saw it the first time when age 5 in 1952. Many, many times after that. When they dismantled the layout, they sold a few items at auction. As I recall, it was only some locomotives they were using at the end (which from Central Locomotive Works kits which were very nice brass kits) and some buildings. I forget how much the engines sold for, but it was a fairly high amount, but nothing ridiculous. They also sold some buildings. I wanted to get the El Tovar Hotel that was located next to the "Grand Canyon", but I recall it sold for $750 which was too much for me. And like many of the structures there, it was fairly rudimentary. Also, "back in the day", the museum entry was free. They did keep track of how many entered. A guy I knew (at Oak Park High School) had a summer job there standing at an entrance with one of those little mechanical counters in his hand.

[@survivingworldsteam]

Leonard Williams (@vintage-model-trains) bought one of the Santa Fe PAs, and has a video of it running on his own layout: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6i8gHudrZJ0rNk

[@trainliker100]

@@survivingworldsteam Thanks. VERY interesting and nice to see that some of the equipment has a good home. I always thought the museum should have a small display perhaps on the wall nearby to commemorate the old layout. Nice photo and a little bit of equipment. But I guess the museum, ironically, sometimes looks only forward.

[@greglivo]

This layout was always a treat when my parents would take me to Chicago to visit my grandparents in the 70's and early 80's. It's a massive museum with thousands of interesting exhibits, yet I was always glued to that railroad. I never realized that it dates to the 1940s. I'm sure it's one of the reasons I have been a lifelong model railroader. The replacement HO layout is quite impressive too, and it gives a wonderful illusion when viewed from inside the 727 hanging overhead.

[@starguard4122]

I remember seeing this layout back in the mid 70s and I could have sworn that there were a mixed multitude of trains running on this layout. (Not just Sante Fe)

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Mostly or almost all Santa Fe. Not even mixed railroads on the freight cars. In the 80s the engines had the red and yellow merger paint scheme and those lasted in to the late 90s when they were replaced with blue and yellow. I did see a Burlington Pioneer Zephyr running on the layout. I think there was a case with all the older trains displayed.

[@davidchapman1519]

I really miss this layout....

[@charlespiper9291]

Probably saw it the first time in 58 or 59. My parents and older sister would deposit me at the train. Collect me after visiting the museum all day, it seemed they were only gone a few minutes

[@ericlindenmuth7517]

Video portraits the American history of one aspect of transportation, which is really cool! Next trucking took over and now we are on the verge of new transportation in 2024, air travel!!

[@hifijohn]

Was big model RR fan when I was a kid I remember going to the museum in the early '70s and seeing this amazing layout.

[@trainnerd3029]

I saw this a bunch of times when I was a kid! Great memories!

[@markdanielczyk944]

Seen this several times. Impressive is an under statement. Museum of Science and Industry is the best. Built by the then head of Sears.

[@tedlawrence4189]

Loved seeing it during the '50s. I was impressed with the airplanes that hung from the ceiling.

[@sturmovik1274]

Those are still there... and now there's a 727 mounted directly over the layout. The layout's tallest buildings had to be planned around the 727's landing gear.

[@jamesf791]

Thank you for sharing this video. While this is not the original layout, the original layout was Q scale.

[@steelman86]

This is the same museum where Silent film actress Colleen Moores famous fairytale doll house castle is located. Colleen, as well as King Vidor lived in north san luis obispo county in California. It's a treat for the eyes and extremely famous!!

[@robertphillips6296]

"The Worst Day Railroading is better than the Best Day at Work."

[@617MrX]

I love a H.O train set would always get one in the 80's as a young kid most Christmas 🎄 I was lucky 😊

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

I am a lifelong model railroad fan. I saw this layout in its 90s iteration with modern at the time trains, scenery, and industries. Aesthetically it was very focused on the trains, straightforward cargo and car types, and structures directly associated with the trains. The natural scenery also made the trains the focus in simplicity, color, and consistency over the whole layout. It had a very clean but melancholy look that formed what I want in a model railroad. I haven't built one yet. The new HO layout is more little bit of everything and whimsy. A little cluttered. Some things were forced in like the South Shore train and the representation of a steam tourist train.

[@timothyflyte9443]

Thank you for sharing.

[@TimMonbrod]

Great Museum and Exhibit! Rosenwald Hall at U of Chicago housed The Department of Geography.

[@rrbone]

I always enjoyed seeing this layout. I'm an HO guy but would prefer this layout still been there.

[@VinnieMorrison]

We just saw that at MSI this summer!

[@millcity9711]

Not this layout, as it's been replaced. This is O gauge, the new layout is rendered in HO. I miss this classic layout, but the new one is equally outstanding.

[@crabbymilton390]

I’ve been visiting that wonderful museum every year since 1989. Never fails to impress.

[@ameyring]

The current model railroad reflects some of the old one by having the train traversing hills and the Santa Fe is now part of the modern BNSF.

[@FlorentinoRebuildingCo.5644]

....ah Minton Cronkite. Never got to meet him in person. Even though he was down in Rancho Santa Fe, CA. I was offered to buy these Santa Fe Streamlined cars a couple of times. Interesting cars with interesting construction methods. Layout in Chicago was modernized a couple of times and eventually became all diesel power. Today it's all HO.

[@richardbrown3061]

This was taken down and replaced with a more detailed HO layout modeled after the city of Chicago.

[@kentfrederick8929]

Now, the train set has been updated and reflects the Santa Fe's merger with the Burlington Northern. So, the locomotives are in BNSF colors. Also, instead of the Southwest, the train set shows the traffic between Chicago, the Twin Cities, and Seattle.

[@pullmanjunction5854]

Glad to be able to see this old film. I wish the time counter wasn't there though. It is distracting.

[@PeriscopeFilm]

Here's the issue: Tens of thousands of films similar to this one have been lost forever -- destroyed -- and many others are at risk. Our company preserves these precious bits of history one film at a time. How do we afford to do that? By selling them as stock footage to documentary filmmakers and broadcasters. If we did not have a counter, we could not afford to post films like these online, and no films would be preserved. It's that simple. So we ask you to bear with the watermark and timecodes. In the past we tried many different systems including placing our timer at the bottom corner of our videos. What happened? Unscrupulous KZbin users downloaded our vids, blew them up so the timer was not visible, and re-posted them as their own content! We had to use content control to have the videos removed and shut down these channels. It's hard enough work preserving these films and posting them, without having to spend precious time dealing with policing thievery -- and not what we devoted ourselves to do. Love our channel and want to support what we do? You can help us save and post more orphaned films! Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/PeriscopeFilm Even a really tiny contribution can make a difference.

[@pullmanjunction5854]

@@PeriscopeFilm - thank you for the explanation to my uninformed comment. I appreciate the work your company is performing!

[@sleepyheadsleeps]

Does the train setup still operate .

[@pauljensen5699]

No, it was replaced in the mid 1990's. The current Museum of Science and Industry updated with a HO model railroad.

[@YouSimon1000]

Wonder where that beautiful E3 #11 and the passenger cars are today?

[@MygrandpasTrain]

Collectors have some of them. So at least they didnt get thrown out

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Everything was Ebayed. I wish there was a photo catalog of everything sold. If I remember, the older trains were in a display case.

[@michaeldickson9876]

I am sure it is somewhere in comments, but what specific scale is this rail road?

[@smokeystover5682]

Appears to be O Gauge. One quarter inch to the foot.

[@SmallGardenRailroad]

See 8:36 for size of model, clearly O scale indeed

[@jamesf791]

​@@SmallGardenRailroadit's actually Q gauge. O gauge is slightly smaller. Even the Museum of Science and Industry admits it's Q gauge.it's actually Q gauge. O gauge is slightly smaller. Even the Museum of Science and Industry admits it's Q gauge.

[@SmallGardenRailroad]

​@@jamesf791 thanks for pointing that out! I had never heard of Q scale before but now I found some info on Wikepedia and O scale forum. Very interesting.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

Anybody know what's become of the Museum of Science and Industry's, O gauge trains and buildings as seen here? Nobody seems to know!

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Ebay.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

@@MilwaukeeF40C NOOOO!

[@trainliker100]

They sold what they could on eBay. As I recall, it was only the locomotives they were using at the end (which were made from Central Locomotive Works kits which were very nice brass kits) and some buildings. They sold for somewhat high, but not real high, prices. I wanted to get the El Tovar Hotel that was located next to the "Grand Canyon", but I recall it sold for $750 which was too much for me. I always thought they should try and cut out maybe one foot track sections and sell those.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

@@trainliker100 Thanks for setting the record straight. Yeah, $750.00 is a bit steep for that "El Tovar Hotel" as I gather this was at least a couple of decades ago when these items were sold.

[@wooderdsaunders7429]

O or ho scale?

[@WAL_DC-6B]

O

[@EuroScot2023]

It's actually Q Scale which is slightly larger than O. Things weren't as accurately standardised at that time.

[@metalgypsy4]

🙌

[@J_Calvin_Hobbes]

👍

[@hillbillyscholar8126]

Video won’t play…

[@PeriscopeFilm]

Get a new internet service provider?

[@hillbillyscholar8126]

Every other video on the platform I view works. It is not a problem by me. 💁

[@PeriscopeFilm]

You need to complain to Google / KZbin not to us silly!

[@robbob5318]

I like 👍 👌

[@robbob5318]

Chew Chew Charlie was a Engineer

[@smokeystover5682]

Two-rail O Gauge. Most O Gauge I see is three-rail. Interesting.

[@STEELE9999]

This is really "O" Scale where Lionel trains are "O" Gauge. Scale models are more accurately rendered

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Proper O gauge is 1/48 scale but a lot of Lionel trains running on that track are undersized, closer to 1/64 S scale.

[@trainliker100]

@@MilwaukeeF40C Well, some of the Lionel "O gauge" is considerably undersized. But even back in the day, not all of it. Lionel had a scale NYC Hudson and a scale Pennsylvania B6 switcher. Some engines like the Fairbanks Morse Trainmaster were scale. The undersize O27 (for 27 inch diameter track circle and their least expensive sets) were considerably undersized, though. But the "O Gauge" was closer to scale. The 6464 box car series were about 90% full scale. In later years, Lionel and other manufacturers have produced a large quantity of items that are completely scale.

[@positivelynegative9149]

Train!

[@boldcounsel9406]

Trains operate best on tracks that are level. So much so that hills are flattened, bridges are built, and mountains are tunneled-through to adhere to a strict horizontal datum. Some railines like The TransSiberian Railroad stretch 1000s of miles over several continents. If we weren't taught the ground beneath us was curving and spinning, we'd never come to that conclusion ourselves.

[@boldcounsel9406]

True science may produce some questions you can't answer. It should never produce answers that you can't question.

[@newdefsys]

The Durango-Silverton line rises almost 2800ft in elevation over the rail's 45 mile route. The incline in elevation is so small that it is imperceptible to passengers, yet as the train climbs ever so subtly from the Animas Valley below, it is soon thousands of feet high in the mountains with towering views of the Animas River, a thousand feet below. But, if you were to stand at any one segment of that rail, you would _conclude_ that it is as flat as a pancake. The human brain has not evolved to perceive vast inclines or curvatures on a global scale, no more than you could see ultraviolet light, or hear a dog whistle. The world around you greatly exceeds the limits of your perception.

[@boldcounsel9406]

@@newdefsys Which do you think best fits _The Rule_ here; and which is _The Exception:_ *A.* - Trans-Siberian RR: Several trillion tons (coal, lumber, gas...) Europe--> China *B.* Durango-Silverton - Tourist attraction train in Colorado (that maybe worth the visit).

[@mamarussellthepie3995]

Lol, what conclusion? That railroads adhere to an apparent *"strict horizontal datum"* ?

[@boldcounsel9406]

@@mamarussellthepie3995 *Answer:* The conclusion I clearly stated in the same sentence.

[@franktuckwell196]

I'll bet there isn't a single driver in any of the badly filmed cabs. Retired train driver. Most displays do not bother to put crews or passengers into their trains, yet put them on platforms and only do half the job.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

I have an O scale, New York Central, 4-6-4, J3 Hudson by Lionel along with the accompanying "20th Century Limited" passenger cars. The steam locomotive and the passenger cars have scale people inside them (by the way, I'm a retired train driver (engineer) too).