Persian vs Primeape - Pokemon Yellow Solo Run Race

Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, save states, or RNG manipulation
4. No evasion moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- *In gen1, evasion boosting is allowed if the Pokemon does it through means other than learning the move by level up or TM. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed. (This exception is to keep ranking consistent with my legacy videos.)
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons all my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- All in-battle glitches are allowed in generation 1
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1, banned in gen2, and allowed for bypassing terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- If the solo Pokemon faints and I choose to blackout it counts towards my reset counter
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- The footage is sped up / slowed down to match the pace of my narration
-- The ability Pickup can only be used if the starter has it
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
KZbin memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
Twitter: / psychicflying
Twitch: / scottsthoughtspokemon
Illustrations by / sarinavail
Thumbnail art by / brianlsart
STAB: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Damage Calculations: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Gen1 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen1.php
Gen2 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen2.php
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com/rb/articles/cr...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...)

[@newuser1101]

"My videos can not feature the best possible playthrough." Sir, you are mistaken. You have turned these runs into an extremely entertaining and informative series that has made me and many other lifelong pokemon fans re-evaluate many pokemon that we may have never used. You needn't feel any regret posting the runs as they have created a great community ❤

[@henry5274]

I'm doing a lets go playthrough and his videos on victreebel made me want to shiny hunt a bellsprout as the very first thing I did.

[@JWStevens]

Yah I agree with you dude. I love them all even Pokémon I don’t like I watch the video anyway and make to like. I’ve used so many Pokémon I thought I never would and it’s basically a new game. 🤘🏽🤙🏽

[@shimmianNS]

On the tenth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me: Classy Cat v Pig Monkey! A moonstone evolution The "Rhydon of gen three" A Pure Power powerhouse Wattson's ace in Hoenn 'Phan v Ursaring! A tiny turtle's bubble The fire starter digging A garden lizard's leech seed And those three weirdo mons punching

[@lazypaladin]

Still annoyed these havent been pinned yet.

[@poketrainerjames7246]

Keep it up buddy

[@Sorrowisyourdemon]

Feeling absolutely spoiled this December on these runs

[@lwfawn]

Wow! It’s almost like that’s the point!

[@slimjong-un5743]

You should.

[@leehiro4840]

What do you mean?

[@bobbytoler5356]

It's like Christmas every day

[@JB-nj7nq]

​@@leehiro4840like old garbage that muk has eaten, they feel that spoiled 😂

[@PrincessGoth574]

I always imagine mankey/primeape using thunderbolt by rubbing its hair and making a lot of static lol

[@KingOfMongrels1]

So if Primeape is the highest ranked Fighting-type when you finish your Yellow Tier List, does it get to wear the championship belt from anime?

[@kode-man23]

Another interesting similarity between the two is the lack of set-up/ badge boosting.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

The matter that you can't get Meowth because Team Rocket has one made me think about the Gym Leaders. Brock and Misty's rosters are identical to the anime, which was identical to Red/Blue. Surge and Erika got their rosters changed to match the anime. Sabrina exclusively uses the Abra line like in the anime. But then Koga has a Venomoth (which he has in the anime, but didn't have in Red/Blue) but does not have a Golbat (which he has in the anime, but he only gets Crobat in Gold/Silver), while Blaine and Giovanni's teams have little in common. It lets one get a reference on how far in the anime's script they could look to make the team rosters. As a reference, the anime was on a hiatus by the time Yellow was released due to the Porygon episode. Ash hadn't yet reached Blaine by that point.

[@SombreroPharoah]

Justice for Porygon ✌️

[@marcoasturias8520]

Koga's team might've been changed for variety's sake. There's a ton of Wheezing and Muk trainers, not that many Venomoth users. Also, Venonat is found in the the safari zone

[@Alector12]

Wished they snugged in an Haunter for Sabrina as both an anime reference, to make her Team have four members like Koga and to give her an answer to her crippling weakness to body slam and slash. But knowing her Bruno/Surge level AI, and her penchant for using psywave, the best move, it might still not do her any good.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

@@Alector12 They could have given Sabrina an Abra/Kadabra/Haunter team, and Koga a Venonat/Venomoth/Golbat team IMO.

[@XenithShadow]

@@marcoasturias8520 Technically they steal venomoth from sabrina's team.

[@shadowtitanx3962]

Fun Fact: These two are also version exclusives in Johto games. Except, Crystal gets Persian instead of Primeape.

[@red-eyessolares1817]

Really cool to see how close each of the mons did as well as getting some top tier results!

[@JacktheRah]

I hope I'm not the only one who always celebrates a fast Brock split! It's just so satisfying when a Pokemon gets to beat Brock quickly. Even if it falls off later in the run, when it beat Brock quickly it's automatically a winner to me.

[@mynameispepper1590]

Another great video Scott! I've loved primeape since it carried me through the Brock fight in my first playthrough of yellow, glad to see it do so well!

[@saltytyranitar6981]

This was really cool to watch! Especially the Primeape optimization. Mimicking Slash was really inspired there!

[@auraswan951]

Great video! And Congrats on getting into the Kalos Dex!

[@perkypenguin1663]

This versus video was a fun pairing! It's very cool to see how far you've come in your Yellow skills. One thing I wonder is if Persian could get away with using Rare Candies earlier so that it gets Slash before Koga and absolutely stomping on his Venonat trio. Not sure how well that would work, but just a thought.

[@tsawy6]

Considering how vital 65 as opposed to 64 was for the champ i doubt the koga timesave beats the extra victory road training youd need!

[@perkypenguin1663]

@@tsawy6 I mainly thought about that because Koga did end up giving Persian a reset. Victory Road trainers do give good experience yields, but maybe a reset or two would cost as much time as the training approach.

[@YusongYT]

Commenting to say thank you for the daily videos this month, which is ridiculous since they're all high quality. Hope you can get some rest too!

[@devinmiracle7680]

Oh my gosh. I am honestly very surprised with these results. Very well done!

[@PNT510]

Primeape has been my favorite Pokemon ever since I saw him in the anime as a kid so I was very excited when this video popped up in my feed and even more excited when I saw his final time. Great job!

[@charlessegale6493]

Excellent video as always, Scott and Team! I always thought Persian and Primeape were underrated Pokémon and I'm glad to see both of these get such great times on their final runs! Here's to sering more non-Psychic and/or Poison types in the S-Tier!

[@dragonmaxim1154]

Thanks! Amazing work on this race!

[@Matt_Zoran]

I needed to click on a video just to let you know, I can't keep up haha I'll be watching all your vids once life catches up again :) appreciate the uploads

[@newdivision00]

The first time I played yellow as a little kid I went through the whole fame with Pikachu and Primeape using Thrash a lot. So this video validates my little kid genius!

[@Zachpi]

So cool to be getting daily videos! It's funny to see that in the first run you said karate chop was better than body slam, but I think you missed that the crit would ignore the badge boost, so it wasn't actually better until level 47 or so based on the ui. Super cool to see the monke pull it off!

[@Deez-Master]

As a kid a I loved to play with Primeape as my main mon, he was my butterfree and it was dope

[@Fencrux]

So excited for Persian, I'm hoping it's gonna do really well!

[@n64_kfp]

Daily December continues with another video that doesn't disappoint. Despite the issues fighting types have, I had a feeling Primeape could edge out Persian. That said, I definitely underestimated the potential struggles for Primeape and also Persian's potential.

[@splitthesoulgaming7431]

I cannot wait to see a dodrio playthrough and when you said a flying type may make s tier it got me feeling some kind of way

[@cuneyta.3371]

congratulations 65 k subs ^^

[@joshbellamy2296]

I'm pausing this a little under 5 minutes into the video because I just want to say that I very much appreciate you and every thing you do for us viewers. Specifically, in this instance, the thing that made me stop watching and leave this comment was your use of the word whinge, which I learned from watching one of your previous videos. I love pokemon, and I love learning new vocabulary words. And I had no idea that was a possible niche, but you have fulfilled it in such a completely satisfying way. Thank you! Please keep making pokemon content ant teaching us new words

[@888Grim]

"Critty" is an excellent nickname =P

[@vizzy61]

i don't get it

[@888Grim]

As in "Kitty cat"@@vizzy61

[@Hex17alv]

My favorite video up to now ❤

[@wideright7567]

if you asked me could primape be s tier I’d say hell no, but wow. excellent video

[@sandeepssv8930]

Wow definitely didn't expect Primeape to be S tier! With Persian I expected it to be good with slash in the late game but definitely not Primeape. This is why optimisation is so fun in these runs!

[@thehouseofstark]

Hey Scott! Was curious if members are able to see release dates for upcoming pokemon. Watching your journey with RBY has been incredibly entertaining and it seems like we have about 67-68 Pokemon left 🎉

[@man75739]

I feel like a cool idea would be what's the ideal pokemon that can be made at different base stat totals like a perfect 1st 2nd 3rd stage pokemon then ideal stats for a legendary pokemon running through this game. Maybe a competition format with different people trying to see if they can make their stat spread win would be cool

[@TheMoogleKing93]

That first Primape run was a peak example of why minimum battles is not fastest. So many pokemon taking 90% from your attacks, then causing resets.

[@annawehmeyer]

Go Persian! 😺💕 I always liked to solo with it in Crystal. Is surprising good there with bite.

[@DennisUrMenace]

I can hear Scott’s hyper focused obsession loosening it’s grip on him

[@MichaelTheBerserker]

I never expected Primeape would be the best fighting type in yellow. I love seeing the underdog win. With Primeape being this great, it makes me wonder how Annihilape would do as a backport

[@hansvantcg]

I always find myself rooting for the underdogs in these videos. Finding ways to optimize Pokémon that don’t fit the generic best types, builds and move pools is my favorite part. Thanks again for all the quality content you produce!

[@Shady97342]

Patiently waiting for the Golduck video. One of the most forgotten Gen1 pokemon.

[@AzureFlute]

I used to not care much for Persian but I really grew to like it! Makes for a great Pokémon for both executing the glitch to battle Professor Oak as well as be a good Pokémon to use in the battle.

[@Mugiwara2k]

Always been a big fan of Primate, just a shame it took so long for him to get an evolution

[@megariderfire1994]

Congrats on getting your first S Tier Fighting Type!

[@poketrainerjames7246]

Tbh, I’m now really excited to see mew and mewtwo absolutely trash everything when it’s their turn

[@TJF588]

The tutorial music kicking in when explaining Critical Hit Rate!

[@shezik1969]

I ussually like to predict how vs runs will end, ussually using your first runs as the best indicator in some regard, since it gives the most real experience for a solo run rather than the most optimal, and i feel thats a better benchmark to go off of. I am shocked at how wrong i was on how this would turn out. I figured with the type advantage against multiple gym leaders, and elite four members, primeape was going to win the initial race, by a relatively slim margin. I predicted a more optimized run would net an insane difference. The fact that the difference was so huge in the first run, with persian in the lead, REALLY sobered my mary jane havin ass up.

[@TripleShizzle]

Great run! Love the info about DV values - i suspect the 7 HP DV didn't change any of the battles significantly?

[@jonathanfrank9207]

THAT'S MY BOY!! MY POKEMON CRUSHED IT!!!

[@freddiehartley4273]

these videos are so good

[@nickswargaminghistory4637]

I’ve paused about midway through to say that your narration skills are really excellent. They’ve always been good but you’ve taken them up a notch. Have you been coached? Do you plan on doing a behind the scenes FAQ episode at all? Id be curious to know about the processes involved in creating and mastering this craft. I appreciate if you don’t wan5 to give away trade secrets though. Keep up the excellent work.

[@Naxhus2]

IDK if he's going to explicitly do classes but he has released a (slightly outdated by now I assume) version of his overlay so he is quite open about sharing his tools.

[@SmashMath151]

Both of these really surprised me, especially since neither had a setup move! Persian's movepool is especially shallow, but it had just enough to get through most major battles. Even the inconsistent ones were still fairly doable.

[@MTM9191]

I think it would be a cool in these versus videos if you gave the rival the other Pokémon instead of Eevee I know that it would change a lot but would be cool

[@DanBottiglieri]

Persian is one of the few Pokémon I've never used in Gen I, as I've never played through Blue version (only a tonne of Red and Yellow). Same is true for Magmar but I also don't think I've had the patience to catch an Electabuzz either for anything other than the Pokédex. I have beaten the Pokédex in both Red and Yellow though, although using my brother's Blue to trade for the remaining Pokémon (across multiple runs for the Eeveelutions and the starters).

[@SuperFizzah]

The Angry Ape was a favorite of mine as a kid after I watched the fighting tournament episode from the first anime

[@EmeralBookwise]

That's one heck of a redemption arc for Primeape.

[@brandonroyal1255]

Santa Scott keeps on giving all month!

[@DrivenArc]

Knew Persian would do well, but I'm very pleased with the Primeape times. So glad you stuck with Low Kick a bit this time. I know it's annoying and it is so dumb that it's one of the best Gen 1 fighting moves, but it's strangely useful and a technically base 75 move with flinch chance and some interesting weaknesses to exploit is almost worth the 90% accuracy and jank. I don't think Machamp will even match this. Sure it's stronger and bulkier, but it''s slower and it doesn't have T-bolt. It IS Medium Slow growth rate, but it really is horrendously slow, so you'll likely have to be a high level to try outspeed and oneshot all the Alakazams. If that turns out not to be a problem for base 55 speed though... well, maybe Machamp may just be S tier too.

[@phoenixguy7016]

I'd love a Crystal Slowbro vs Slowking. I love Slowking but the trade requirement was too much for me to overcome.

[@justinsims655]

I love that Persian does well because of its typing, and Primeape does well in spite of its typing.

[@NativeGolfer10]

I’m not surprised that Primeape performed so well. That thing is a dictionary example of a glass cannon and has the coverage for speed. I’m much more impressed with Scott’s improvements in his playthroughs though.

[@mickgorro]

Here Critty Critty :) Speaking of kitties, when are you doing Churro and Rosie (Rosy?) runs :)?

[@connordarvall8482]

A note about the Hitmons, they're sort of like Pokemon that know secret techniques. Hitmonlee can learn the elemental punches, which each can only be learned by one other Pokemon. Hitmonchan is the master of fighting STAB. learning the three exclusive high-power kicks. Of course, the reality of the games' balance makes these feats less impressive.

[@InsanityForce]

I would love to see an Annihilape run someday.

[@MelodicTurtleMetal]

Good stuff. Tier list is looking a little top heavy. I know it'll trigger a lot of people and likely yourself - but maybe you'll need to evaluate tier times without just incrementing 5 minutes. Or leave it 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@thebigbean8783]

I know Primeape probably won't win this, but man, I sure hope it does! I think it's underrated tbh. Maybe not now that it evolved, but it's just super good even without it! Omfg

[@skeetermania3202]

Talk about an upset!

[@thebigbean8783]

​@@skeetermania3202I am shocked! I just couldn't believe it

[@bitterzombie]

Persian & Primape are both great speedy critters, which makes them great in gen 1. Primape might have more weaknesses, but it gets rock slide & dig for coverage in the mid game, so it has always been one of my favorite options early on. Persian is a slashing beast with stab though, so they are both pretty good at similar niches. Persian might win, but i think Primape will still manage a good time, these two both have the speed & power to perform well on their own

[@shikishinobi]

Persian is in my head canon as my lead in Pokémon Competitions and excels in mixing speed boosts with surprise attacks. I now have 2 S tier head canons. Am very happy with that. Persian would be my Competition mascot, with Kadabra or Espeon as my trainer mascot.

[@BigfudgeRTN]

Loving the use of the word whinge, it's very Australian 😂

[@ChaosWindScar99]

I was expecting persian to dominate, so color me surprised with these results, Well done Primeape.

[@josefnocera4414]

Primeape is one of my favorite Pokémon. I always use him in generation one play throughs

[@GraceAndGlorySmash]

For Persian, it probably would have been better to avoid using Pay Day at all. Scratch has the same power, more PP, and most importantly it avoids unnecessary text prompts every time you use it. Unless you're specifically routing the money in somewhere, you're just burning text boxes.

[@skeetermania3202]

This also plays into why he shouldn’t use super effective moves unless they’re needed for specific damage ranges or a crit would ruin you.

[@ShiveringEroticKingBanana]

Interesting matchup

[@TrueNomadSkies]

My headcanon for Primeape learning Thunder and Thunderbolt always had to do with how it looks like an angry static furball. Oddly enough, Low Kick and Karate Chop seem like skillful precision fighting moves rather than like, Rage and Thrash, so this guy being on Machamp's level isn't too outa the question.

[@anthmrtnz]

Omg he said winge again I love this guy

[@SwaxMain4u]

Nice to see my boy primeape get a great time

[@azure_paladin4706]

Ya know...I hope in the future we get ANOTHER prime ape evolution. This time instead of being so angry it's more calm and at peace. Becoming a special attacker in the process.

[@pearlexportdrums]

Lol Critty... absolutely love it!

[@jaytaytay3205]

WHINGE! I see you using those new words! 👀

[@pancakes838]

Primeape has always been one of my favorites from gen 1. I end up using one almost every time I play through a Kanto game.

[@SentretPeanut]

Well! I didn’t see that coming! :)

[@scotti-pequeno]

It's like a boxing match where Primape wins by points.

[@ArchonZach]

We are being spoiled with the amount of verses videos so far 😭

[@mickgorro]

Wait a second... Koga used an X ATTACK... on... Persian? Looks like I'm not the only one who had a moment of confusing the two runs across that transition :).

[@JimXUltima]

Scott tested: Jim approved

[@lamiaprincess6371]

I didn't really have any doubts with Primeape and that might sound weird, but I do want to point out that in the tier list, the only Fighting types tiered are Hitmonchan,Hitmonlee, and Poliwrath and two of those Pokemon unfortunately are kind of uniquely bad. Hitmonlee is a lot better but still suffers from an atrociously bad movepool and Hitmonchan is just not even remotely useful. It's bad by Fighting type standards. I'm just gonna mention here that I think Machamp is also very likely to have an S-tier finish time. Fighting types often have pretty good physical movepools and Machamp's stats are really pretty good. Fighting type moves are really bad and Psychic type Pokemon are quite good, but in-game there's just not a lot of relevant Pokemon for the latter. It's not like Gen I OU where every team is going to have some number of Starmie, Exeggutor, and Alakazam. This said, I thought on a first glance Persian would just be better, but I didn't realize it learned Slash so late into the run. If it learned the move earlier it probably would have outperformed Primeape by a considerable amount.

[@PokeMaster22222]

Competitively, Persian is seen to be a lesser Tauros - the cat's got high Speed, a decent Atk stat, and (almost) guaranteed crits with Slash, and does have Bubblebeam and Thunderbolt for coverage. However, he's not as strong as the bull, and lacks important stuff like Earthquake and Blizzard, and is frail. People have tried running both Tauros and Persian, to have a double-threat setup, but since Thunder Wave is common and they both hate paralysis (utterly cripples their high Speed advantage - basically Persian's only notable niche, alongside Slash) it's not good in terms of defensive value.

[@Zorafin]

Primeape's problem is that it's just not strong enough. It may be fully evolved but its overall stats are just over a mid tier pokemon's stats. That and its lack of great moves, it's just not great. Even in Stadium 2 where I wanted to use a fast sweeping freshly hatched pokemon for the baby cup, Mankey just didn't cut it because its health was too low. I had to use a Machop, who did much better. Or you know, just cheese it with a scyther, onix, and chansey.

[@arobin6695]

is there any scenario where it would actually be worth it to use focus energy to lower your crit chance? like if you wanted to use swords dance and then slash

[@HighPriestFuneral]

This was played around with in his Scyther video, but it took too much time to realistically be of use.

[@kb27787]

I was really surprised Primeape was able to keep up! Was expecting Persian to leave it in the dust but then again Agatha is a thing... Of course, if it had dig (as cats should!) it would've been a different story.

[@budcheefer6823]

hey Scott hope all is well!!!!

[@male_maid5951]

the term for "removing" the degits after a decimal point is to "truncate it"

[@PraefMace]

Ike the killer out here being a coach

[@darkessinzero]

I wonder, in your vs. videos. Do you approach your games differently because you have in mind that you a basically compeeting two pokemon against each other or are you treating them exactly as if you where doing a regular solo challange?

[@zuthalsoraniz6764]

43:20 Well, actually you have a slightly less than 2 in 256 (specifically 511 in 65536) chance to miss any "guaranteed slash crit kill", since there is also the independent 1 in 256 chance of a gen 1 miss

[@Zorafin]

I'm still so annoyed with what happened to me in Pokemon Stadium. The enemy sent out Persian, so I figured I'd send my Rhydon and prevent it from doing any damage to me. After all, it's a physical attacker who uses normal attacks, what can it do to me? Bubblebeam. I lost my pokemon because of that play. I won the fight but come on! I want to use rock types against normal types!

[@marcoasturias8520]

And that's why Normal is king in gen1

[@Zorafin]

It really has no counters

[@Wow1w]

hmm, haven't been seeing the Venomoth's typing in any recent videos... is the joke dead? D:

[@kingofthesand96]

Funny enough when I was younger my first play through playing yellow I only used primeape lol I used metronome on it and thought it was the best Pokémon in all of Pokémon till I got older lmao

[@everquestonline1600]

Problem with most runs is there not fully optimized. That said a fully optimized run would be a shit ton of work

[@TinosNL]

Primeape is the prime example to never monkey about

[@henry5274]

No you dont understand, Raichu needed more crits so the x speed was important. thats how that works, I promise.