Pessimism and the poor quality of life

Life mostly sucks. In this video, I offer some reflections on this problem.

[@KaneB]

KZbin has made life worse by making dislikes invisible. If you wish to express your dislike of this video, do so by liking this comment. Also, encourage other people to click on the video to like this comment too. That'll really show me how much you hate my content!

[@justus4684]

I had exactly the same thought: Offering dislikes by liking comment dedicated to that

[@justus4684]

If i dislike, does that mean the opposite then?

[@KaneB]

@@justus4684 I'm just trying to maximize the amount of engagement the video gets, lol.

[@phillipyangmusic]

I don't like this video. I LOVE this video.

[@test-nj9xw]

fake dislike, haha!!!

[@SimonHHH]

Kane, these videos may not bring you lasting satisfaction, but, for what’s it’s worth, they are a really valuable and entertaining resource for many people. Personally, I think they’re the best philosophy videos on KZbin.

[@KaneB]

Thank you!

[@entityidentity1773]

@@KaneB your channel is one of the very few “gem channels” that I watch nearly every single new video from. I realize this is just a subjective opinion of a random person over the internet, but still, thank you for your work.

[@KaneB]

@@entityidentity1773 That's great to hear; glad you like the videos!

[@uv5455]

Agreed

[@zachvanslyke4341]

Agreed. I find pessimism to be very peaceful. 🙏

[@tituslucretiuscarus659]

When people say "I love Dark Academia!!", i would like to send them this video.

[@Swpeloquin]

This reminds me of the idea of depressive realism. There are some studies that show people who are little depressed (this does hold for moderate or sever depression) are better at making predictions. The thought is that people of "normal" mood may be less realistic about the future.

[@Swpeloquin]

@Val yes, that is true, but it is not clear that best function tracks with total truth. It might be a benefit to operate with some useful fictions. Realism does not have to equal best function.

[@dgoosen4878]

The study was seriously limited though and I have my doubts about how much we should apply it outside the context of the experiment

[@davidzuilhof2272]

This whole video is the expression of the first nobel truth "life is dukkha (=suffering/dissatisfaction)" and the second one "the cause of suffering is desire". Kane is on the path to become a Buddhist.

[@ikarus6819]

We just gotta wait for kaneist buddhism to form!

[@ahumandoing6813]

Literally every culture believes some version of "life is suffering". It's not exclusive to Buddhism.

[@krunkle5136]

​@@ahumandoing6813yes, however Buddhism's endpoint is embracing and feeling at home with oblivion, while other religions like Christianity promise an eternal afterlife and a permanent soul that must worship God forever, or that a person even gets riches in heaven. Dukkha also includes impermanence, so it's not only suffering but also the reality that everything is changing and pretty much nothing is eternal.

[@lilemont9302]

​@@krunkle5136Nirvana is not really the same as oblivion.

[@Catofminerva]

When you say it feels like youre trapped because suicide is not an option but the idea that suicide is there as an option...like any other option I have in life, like a button I can press when I've had enough, that I'm free and not trapped in existence...that I'm not 'condemned to live'-that alone is a powerful coping mechanism and the most comforting thing I can think of.

[@rozb554]

It's not at all comforting though

[@nickolashessler314]

I've had similar thoughts recently. As much as I want to say I enjoy the higher pleasures of philosophy, I'm always led back to the point where I'm led to view philosophy as a ladder we ascend to highten our wisdom only to descend it once we've realized its pointlessness, futility, and redundancy. Virtually everything in my experience is painted gray, so to speak, and living is a chore that I'm expected to perform each day. Life just sucks. Perhaps the main difference, then, is that I view death more positively than you do.

[@Oliver-qt9gv]

I relate very strongly with what you say about illusions. I fully understand how someone else might see this as a character flaw or needless self-torment but it frustrates me how everybody around me, up until I saw this video, seems to be in denial about just how abominable life is. I think it's in some part down to wishful thinking, unwillingness to accept the facts around us for the pain it would cause and a line of thinking that reads "Well I haven't killed myself yet. There must be some reason I keep on living - the fleeting drips of satisfaction must be it." Within every facet of life I chose to look I find ugliness which seems to only grow the more I investigate and learn. Our government is an easy example, bursting at the seams with corruption, misconduct and fraud. Even that putrid mess pales in comparison to what happens in the US with much more blatant pedophillia, subservience to corporations with no regards for anything but profit incentive, alphabet agencies, their 'enhanced interrogation' techniques and disregard for privacy. I worry even more about corporations with size and power the likes of which we have never before seen such as Amazon and Google who collect reams and reams of data on all of us, building a profile that understands you better than you do. It's not even a future fear anymore. They have demonstrated their ability to predict our carnal desires with unprecedented accuracy and use it to manipulate our decision making. Okay so current powers are bad. Big whoop. But it's always been like this and I suspect the availability of information only highlights this more in the current age. I watch a lot of Adam Curtis documentaries which really drive home the absurdity and pointlessness of our whole situation. All of that is only a means to an end though, the real pain begins when I think of the individual suffering caused directly, indirectly or even completely unrelated to all of that. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a young girl on Epstien's island, a prisoner in CIA interrogation, a civilian underneath a trigger happy AC-130. There are pulverising tragedies that individuals encounter every single day. Losing your daughter to cancer; your house burning down with your dog inside; your life's savings being scammed from you so someone can buy a Ferrari; the Post Office computer malfunctioning and wrongly accusing you of fraud so you lose your house, friends and family. I know of some people with stories so sad I don't even want the stress of writing them out. Anyone from any walk of life, at any time, in any place has a million things that could happen which would cause them more pain than all of their previous satisfactions combined. A single splinter is enough to make you forget about the good health of your entire body and the enjoyment a wolf gets while eating a deer is a thousandth of the pain that the deer feels while being eaten. But I've rambled long enough and I'm sure you get the picture. While it's true we experience small pockets of satisfaction along the way, the only reason this is possible is momentary forgetfulness. Blissful ignorance of everything else that is going on. I feel like I live my entire life rationalising my dire situation the same way an addict rationalises why it's okay to have just this one last hit. A complete illusion, created by repeated mental gymnastics. I'm just waiting for some untold horror to come along and emotionally destroy me, only for me to try and pick up the pieces as if I'm a Boston Dynamics robot that keeps getting kicked over just to get back up again - because there is nothing else. Is that really all there is? Ignore what's going on and lie to yourself just so life is bearable enough until you die? I dunno man. I don't think I'm cut out for this.

[@wintermatherne2524]

Yep you have to be a complete and total liar to be an optimist.

[@fahadhussain66]

9:20 and this treadmill of desires has made me pursue a minimalistic lifestyle.

[@roa3392]

Kane, I personally find your videos incredibly valuable. Your explanations are very clear and concise. I’m currently binging your philosophy of science videos and they are increasingly and give a log of insight they go much more in depth than many videos. Your philosophy explanations are great!

[@jacksaetveit]

I've never heard anyone else iterate this in such a way that I could relate to. I've tried explaining the same feelings and thoughts to others but nobody seems to get it. Even among the more philosophically minded of my friends, they just don't get it. What you so makes me glad to hear it because I am not alone in this. I am not the only one and at least there is something positively valuable there. Thank you for sharing what I cannot put into words.

[@1999_reborn]

Just the video I need on this depressing afternoon

[@KaneB]

Glad I could help! 👍

[@justus4684]

I see you all the time man

[@mohitoness]

risk aversion is based on a demonstrable and logical calculus. pain has a scale. decay is quantifiable, and the taxonomy of disease is vast... Against happiness metrics etc: the absence of a disease on your doctor's note will doubtless bring you relief, but the highest score on the well-being scale based on your survey input will likely not bring you much deep sense of peace. It's easy to discuss at length all that is abominable because the mental task of analysis, metaphysical reduction, makes clear isolated elements of our experience. Health, well-being and happiness may simply not be isolatable elements of experience. They possess a certain integrity that is itself diminished by attempts to explain it (using reductionist linguistic tools). It is ineffable, and can be communicated, at best, aphoristically, as is the tendency of most spiritual teachings. We can be committed to the rut of reduction when wearing our professional hats, scientist, philosopher (i am an evolutionary biologist). but we don't have to carry those tools everywhere we go, and apply them willy nilly, outside of the office in our own bedrooms. the tool we use to clarify everything are good, but not that good...

[@antennastoheaven]

Surprisingly I find this video kind of ASMR-ish and calming due to your honesty and sincerity while some other people just showing off their HAPPY-MINDFULLNESS etc life via Instagram or KZbin.

[@wintermatherne2524]

Yeah.I much prefer a sincere, authentic pessimist or realist to a fake, naive optimist.

[@atalaynalldere1827]

Same agree, similarly my life has boiled down to avoiding the worst outcomes possible, rather than pursuing than the best because of this feeling. It is so obvious thst things will be really shit in 20 years or so, it seems more reasonable to play it safe. Few points for me, I believe materialistic achievements just facilitates ones' life. They are not goals in their sake but they just allow to have more time, less stress if your money used wisely. I don't particularly understand people accusing a partucular idea, i.e capitalism, for their lives' shittiness and boredom. Well many ideas are accusable since they are responsible for many ill things but they are not the root of the problem. There is no ultimate satisfaction out there, nothing to be pleased about endlessly. One can laugh, but never gets to be in bliss.

[@tonyburton419]

Many of the themes you touch on here are contained and argued for in David Benatar's book "The Human Predicament - A Guide to Life's Biggest Question's". Yes, the human condition is tragic. Here is a short sentence from the book - "Everyone wants to live a long life, but nobody wants to get old".

[@milkbottle4u]

“Old age, it is said, is where everybody wants to get but nobody wants to be. The latter is partly because of the frailties that often accompany advanced age, but the increasing threat of death is another. There is thus a cruel irony here. We want long lives, but the longer we live, the more reason we have to fear that less life remains.” 🖤

[@tonyburton419]

@@milkbottle4u Cheers for the full completion. It is a strong uncomfortable point many avoid thinking about.

[@coolkusti]

So I would suggest that you do actually happen to have it worse relative to most people, in the primary way that matters - disposition. All the riches and comforts in the world would be of no help to a person who by their constitution (which is not something a person generally gets to choose!) has a disposition that keeps them from enjoying all of that. I used to think this was an implausible explanation myself (being of a similar disposition), until I heard the statistic that well over half of locked-in patients (people experiencing long-term whole body paralysis, having basically no capacity to move or speak save for possibly their eyelids) never consider euthanasia. People in a wildly terrible circumstance, one which removes nearly all the common joys of life, *never weigh* suicide! I take this as a sign that the dispositions of people with respect to the intrinsic value of life are extremely variable - some people can just be fundamentally happy living on scraps, while others cannot be satisfied even by luxury.

[@Sam-_-]

I enjoyed this video a lot. Thank you Kane.

[@garruksson]

Sorry to hear your situation. My own experience is so simple it hurts. Basically my romantic relationship solves life for me, it's just this intrinsic experience of meaning. And even if I would lose her, I have faith that I could endure it, simply because I witnessed eternal beauty. Imperfection is a necessary condition for love, so I can live with it!

[@user-yk9sk7pg6v]

Hi Garruksson.. I think you would like Allen Ginsberg's poem, 'Song'..

[@garruksson]

@@user-yk9sk7pg6v thanks man, I did!

[@WackyConundrum]

These from-the-heart videos, when you "ramble" about something, just letting loose your thoughts on something are the best ones. The lectures are great too, but these are the real gems.

[@Nasir_3.]

Great work man, glad that I found your channel

[@dogsdomain8458]

Philosophers always ask whether THAT I am. Philosophers always ask WHAT I am. But philosophers never ask HOW I am.

[@KaneB]

How are you, Dog's Domain?

[@dogsdomain8458]

​@@KaneBVery Good, thank you. How r u?

[@KaneB]

@@dogsdomain8458 kzbin.info/www/bejne/anTMnqefqNimoq8

[@peterwood2422]

If you are mostly consumed by positive illusions, as you say, then I’d contend that your life is good and a happy one (most of the time). Of course if you dwell on the stark facts of life it is all somewhat pointless and tragic. But I agree with you, people should not dwell like this, just rather try and enjoy the moments you live through and try to be nice to others - as they are also going though their own struggles. Your videos help to give others happiness, which I hope gives you some satisfaction and joy.

[@WebHackmd]

Another person living under the existential illusions that cause orgniasms to survive and reproduce.(life is insignificant and it would be better to never have been born, conclusion: enjoy the meaningless moments, insignificant because you haven't even decided what gives you pleasure, it is some algorithms with a reward mechanism that is activated in the brain and that maximizes some variable linked to the affirmation of the biological machine) And since Kane liked your comment, it means that the illusions have taken possession of him again.

[@peterwood2422]

@@WebHackmd "Another person living under the existential illusions that cause orgniasms to survive and reproduce" - Yes I am, the same as every other human on the planet. Have you managed to transcend your human (biological machine) form? I actually do not think that 'life is insignificant and it would be better to never have been born'. I said life is tragic and ultimately somewhat pointless in the great scheme of things. I have decided what gives me pleasure, I don't need or care if Kane, you or anyone else agrees with me (so long as my pleasures do not infringe too heavily on others). I like my pleasures and therefore I enjoy life most of the time - that's all that matters. I'm fully aware that my pleasures are linked to my biological form, how could it be anything else and what point are you trying to make?

[@WebHackmd]

@@peterwood2422 The bottom line is that man is like any other physical system out there, he has no self and free will, both of which are illusions. A physical system that continuously applies correction algorithms so that the individual does not fall into despair and keep him alive. In fact, one thing could easily be stated: if human conditions worsened a lot, the human being would continue to live, because he cannot submit to biological programming. Even the people who lived in the concentration camps were full of hope and settled down to the new conditions of life, albeit unfavorable, because precisely there is no reason in the will to live, there is only a senseless impulse to which we subjugate ourselves. You have to think in the third person to get out of the existential bias, think that you are an immortal alien being who visits the earth, and from up there tries to understand the human being. It therefore makes no sense to speak of "I love my pleasures, there is no self that can decide anything, everything is already decided, biological programming works just like that, the agent is guided with the pleasures and sorrows, the agent follows what is already written. Always to get you out of existential biases and those based on the illusion of a self, think of a robot programmed to receive pleasure while doing street cleaning, well, it would say the same thing, if it had a minimum of consciousness and an illusion of a self, he will say: I chose to do cleaning because this activity gives me intense pleasure, life is wonderful, I spend every day cleaning the layers full of dirt, what a delight, what a good taste in the air released by the accumulation of garbage, you throw more stuff indiscriminately on the streets, whatever, the more there is, the more I enjoy, a series of continuous multiple orgasms from the sight of this glittering spread of rot. Do you understand? an alien could say the same thing when looking at humans during sexual intercourse, what could be more disgusting and repulsive than two humans penetrating each other and exchanging body fluids? And the point is that the robot thinks it is doing something for itself, just as the human being thinks it is doing something for itself, but the robot actually does what it is programmed for, it achieves goals beyond the robot, which it will be discarded when it stops functioning and has completed its life work, the same thing applies to the human being, procreation is a process beyond the single individual, it favors the propagation of the species, that is, the species and the information unit (genes) are the permanent and immortal thing for which the individual, like a vehicle, is used. I am sure that you would consider the life of the robot pitiful and without any meaning for the self, you would consider the larger scenario, in which the life of the robot is replaceable, in fact during conception the same thing is taken care of, a random result for which you are you came into the world, instead of millions of other competing spermatozoa, and nothing would change. The difference is that the human being has the imaginative and illusory capacity, and therefore can merge his own mortal individuality with permanent and immortal concepts, such as the concept of humanity (or God), and therefore is convinced that he is working for the future of humanity, for future generations, as if there was a future of humanity without its active role in procreation. That is, since the human being no longer wants to see himself as a mechanism of these processes, he assumes that he does so for other reasons, that is, he gives other reasons for his own existence, but the reasons are irrelevant, because they are always in line with the programming, only that they give alternative satisfaction to the individual, gives him importance and makes him the protagonist. In fact, future generations exist, that is, humanity exists and extends itself into the future, as an immortal being, precisely because the human being with it accomplishes his immortality, even if it is illusory, the human being will die, but he has founded himself with humanity, in a teleological horizon, where humanity has replaced God and his guarantees of eternity. The point is not to transcend oneself, one remains in any case a mortal being destined for bodily and mental wear, because one's role as a transmitter of information has come to an end, you are no longer useful, so you die. The point is to put an end to this existential nonsense, just don't reproduce. When you reproduce on the other it imposes on another individual who will come into the world the fact that life is thought to be lived, it is your affirmation, in the moments in which you decide to give birth to a living being, you decide for him that he will like life, because if he does not like it he will not be able to escape it, it has already been decided, he too is a living being with his needs, the fact does not exist: he will decide for himself, you decide for it, my parents they decided for me, the non-existent cannot decide, so one is forced into the world, thrown down here., and for what reason? For parents to be able to fulfill their interests in immortality by means of the "offspring", those who doest not have the ability to have children, in fact, are much linked to the concept of humanity as an extension of oneself, to guarantee immortality for itself. But the point that they do it for themselves, it is a personal interest that of the parents, they do nothing for the children, they have not even asked to come into the world, the need is of the parent for themselves. This is the biggest violation, intrinsic to production, against individual self-determination, but procreation is full of taboos and sensitivities, so it is difficult to realize.

[@peterwood2422]

@@WebHackmd Wow, long reply. By that logic we should stop animals reproducing as well then as the reality of most wild animal's lives are dire. Even though they may not think in this abstract way about their existence and enjoy most of their existence (humans are no different). I actually enjoy my day to day life very much and if I chose to have children then I would have them on the belief that they would enjoy their life's as well (hopefully). Why would an alien think sexual intercourse is disgusting?

[@wintermatherne2524]

I enjoy certain aspects of life too, but none of them are worth existing for. Would be better not to be born. Life’s a b and then you just die.

[@guy-iw2qh]

Honestly, I am genuinely impressed with the videos I've watched so far on this channel. I'd definitely be digging more. So, hopefully this comment makes life a tiny bit less bad overall.

[@KaneB]

Thanks! And yeah, I do appreciate that others find my videos interesting or helpful.

[@Rclibertine]

Thanks for being so upfront and open on this subject. I think we're largely conditioned, even the miserable amongst us, to give life the benefit of the doubt. I don't think we do existence any favors by covering up the amount of suffering contained within it. I still try to maintain an affirmation of life, even as I find it personally and existentially pretty horrible. It's the only game in town, and as much as I think it might truly be better never to have been that is not in the cards. It's best to accept the suffering and negativity as constitutive of any projects we have in life. The joys and the sorrows only find their distinction through our fleeting judgments. What will last is what we make of the time we've been thrown into the meat grinder. Suicide's an option, but I know I haven't exhausted all that life has to offer me if I simply learn to endure it's travails. One day there may truly be no getting there from here and on that day I hope I have the courage to cash out and call it a life lived moderately well

[@KaneB]

>> I don't think we do existence any favors by covering up the amount of suffering contained within it I dunno, the only violable solution for me to just get on with things and try to stop thinking about the overall quality of life. I kind of envy the folks who are genuinely able to just ignore it. Though I wonder how many of them are really being honest with themselves.

[@WentworthStill]

​@@KaneB most people have extraordinary levels of delusion. They won't entertain pessimistic perspectives on existence, they will always opt for modes of operating that feel life-enhancing. Zappfe's four repressional strategies explain this well.

[@zachvanslyke4341]

Thank you for sharing this, like many others I agree with a lot of what you said. I’m 51 and the only thing that arguably gets better is you learn to be more numb. Eff it mate, laugh when you can, it’ll be over soon enough Cioran and others can keep us company till then 🙏🤡🙏

[@Wherrimy]

I feel you, with my motivation to live also being ultimately based on frustration. First, I don't make youtube videos, but I do write music in my spare time, somehow hoping to achieve the "perfect expression". But it's clear that no spacial arrangement of the 12 notes will ever be able to transcend into that one thing. Second, I have a sort of escalation of commitment problem. I am relatively young, and by having already committed so much time (all the pain and suffering I had to endure during the childhood), I feel obliged to get a revenge, or a return on investment if you will. Also: in a sense, continuing to live only esclates the situation even further. Ultimately, death will make any achievement meaningless, which is quite worrisome. Though I do also have (likewise foolish) hope that maybe immortality will become feasible within my lifetime.

[@wintermatherne2524]

Same. But what worse? To live forever or t die forever?

[@user-yk9sk7pg6v]

Thank you, Kane.

[@allanclark5179]

My looks are gone at my 60 years. My guitar playing. The pursuit of music. That keeps me going. I lost my wife to COVID-19 15 months ago. I feel like turning into dust. Mazzy Star. My favourite so g right now. You still have your looks. That cool English accent. You're better off than you think. Lighten up squirt. Radiohead. Sorry.

[@felixrobinson6622]

To speak to the lasting satisfaction you mentioned: I find pleasure in DOING the creative practices themselves, rather than thinking of the "lasting satisfaction" they can bring. To me the important aspect of any practice isn't what's coming but rather what's in the happening of it. The satisfaction at the end can be nice but it definitely shouldn't be a final goal. I would also like to add that on top of having fun doing creative practices, one of the aspects that brings me the most joy in my life is connecting with people. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does happen I cry inside, out of happiness, a little bit every time.

[@KaneB]

>> I find pleasure in DOING the creative practices themselves This seems like it's probably a common thing, so maybe I'm just unlucky in this respect. But for me, the activity of creating things is not enjoyable in itself, at least under normal circumstances. I do it because I have a basic drive to do it. Like, if I fail to produce a video or write an article or whatever within the deadline I've set for myself, I feel awful. I think I'm more motivated by the desire to avoid the negative feeling of failure, than I am by enjoyment of the activity itself.

[@HeroicAge616]

@@KaneBvery late response so apologies for that but I am doubtful that most people actually enjoy the means of creation. I think there’s an odd category of ideals that people talk about in a sense as if they are true, even when there’s a deeper understanding that they are generally not, and I think that category applies to the generally non-pessimistic stances people take in general. Even if it is not true for me right now, surely it must be true for another, therefore it can be true for me and I should take optimistic stances. I view this line of thought as a fallacy but most people seem comfortable with it.

[@wintermatherne2524]

The problem is the deadline. Deadlines turn the creative process into work and work is not enjoyable. If you want to make something and there’s no obligation attached, you may find you enjoy the process.

[@wintermatherne2524]

True. It’s gaslighting yourself.

[@user-sx9xl4vo1e]

Thanks for videos and hello from Russia! P. S. You castle will grow from book to book, from video to video, from debates to debates. Best wishes!

[@contentconsumer8951]

Good video. For me, this was resolved in a way that I had to accept the essence of life to be filled with suffering. I allowed it to be not a disposition of things, but rather a normal state. And what I got from there is the vision that if you keep doing things despite the suffering - those are the things that are truly yours.

[@lilemont9302]

I think the root problem is that nothing actually compels you to accept as much.

[@HeroicAge616]

I find your thoughts very interesting because from my perspective, I have never attributed any negative feeling from my own death, which leads me to nonemotional contemplations of exiting that I think are quite rare. In my experience with these periods I burned my brain out trying to think of what the most rational reaction to my own fairly negative existence might be and I always end up wallowing in the puddle of skepticism that seems so inescapable in philosophy these days. Perhaps we are intellectually just out of reach of satisfying conviction due to history or our biology, or very probably it’s just my own limited capacities. All of this is to say, if you are curious what it might be like to consider exiting without fear or emotion, I doubt you would find overwhelming conviction one way or another.

[@phillipyangmusic]

every thought is temporary. you have good and bad feelings, then you die. the "drive" you repeatedly mentioned is an important source to attempt to understand. the only thing I know for certain is that I do not understand anything. yet we continue to entertain ourselves and search for distraction and pleasure until this experience ends or changes. I enjoy your philosophy videos. you are not alone in your viewpoints, if that provides any comfort at all, I hope you take it to heart.

[@KaneB]

Re the "drive", in chapter 16 of Against Method, Feyerabend talks about how people in ancient Greece did not conceive of their actions as being initiated by an autonomous self, but as imposed by external events including divine interventions. Dreams, strong emotions, sudden memories, etc., were experienced as acts of gods pulling the strings on the human puppet. This makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. Of course, I don't believe in Homeric gods. But often, I don't have the sense that my actions or even my motivations are really *mine*.

[@noah5291]

@@KaneB do you lean towards determinism being true? I'm agnostic but it seems like it fits more. Haven't seen a vid of yours on it if you have one, which I'm sure you do

[@wintermatherne2524]

Professor Robert Sapolsky believe it’s true and he makes a convincing case.

[@handsomebear.]

I wonder if the reason many of us in the west are having issues enjoying our lives is *_because_* we're not overcoming life threatening situations and/or experiencing states of agony on a somewhat regular bases _(say once every 3-5 years or so...maybe every 10-15 years for the latter :v)._ I've heard people claim that it's a necessary _(but not sufficient)_ ingredient to leading a contented life...that it can greatly help with putting things into context on an emotional level. _And if it is, it's obviously going to be highly subjective to the individual both in terms of what counts and how often you'd need/want it to happen to benefit you. Experiencing too much or constant fear for your life and/or agony isn't going to be benefitial to anyone._

[@mkraulis]

Termination of conscious existence is more akin to what it feels I desire, not ending my life. Part of my mind is exhausted from it's self presented narrative. Might you consider doing a video on E.M. Cioran?

[@WackyConundrum]

One of us.

[@justus4684]

9:12 Life swings like a pendulum backward and forward between pain and boredom

[@Drumsha555]

I love your channel a lot

[@dogsdomain8458]

You should do a video on toxic positivity for 10 more minutes of dopamine before the demons come back

[@bobbyjuju7442]

Lol. I feel you so much, dude. Just a few things: I don't think life is inherently good or bad; I just think some people suffer much more through it than others, and that all of our experiences vary considerably. Example: I went through a bad breakup with an ex 3 years ago. He was an artist that ended up dating an actor, and he ended up loving the guy way more than he loved me. Since i broke up with my ex, I remained single, had to move back to my parents place, didnt get paid at several jobs, and became homeless. He lives a very happy, successful life; I do not. I'm a man with a Political Science, Philosophy, and Spanish/French degree, and I'm completely fucking useless; ex paints and is successful. Now, while there seems to be a human condition, say for instance a dissatisfaction that follows after a material gain, calling it that seems to be trivial since many different animal species experience that want similarly. I totally feel you about creating being a frustrating, uncomfortable process. I don't think it's universally experienced that way though. I subscribed to your channel, guy! I'm now about to go check out your other videos. P.S. I think that you're smart and adorable.

[@neoepicurean3772]

Hey Kane, I consider myself somewhat of an expert when it comes to finding ways to make life enjoyable, and I've recently moved back Norway and got a pretty good set-up going on over here. I just got a distinction for my MA (in ethics from Leeds), and I'm taking a break before continuing studies next academic year. If you want a holiday/break then I'd be happy to show you around Bergen and the fjords for a few days or a week or something. I have the booze, girls and good times covered, but I'm lacking someone to discuss philosophy with!

[@KaneB]

Thanks! I can't at the moment but if the offer is still there in the future, I may take it up.

[@neoepicurean3772]

@@KaneB No worries. I'll be living in Bergen, Norway for at least the next year or two, and the offer will always be open! I forgot to say, I founded Norway's first 100% vegan fast food chain last year, and it's going really well. We're opening the second store in Feb. So I have the burgers and chips covered too ;)

[@KaneB]

@@neoepicurean3772 Wow, that's fantastic! Congratulations on that. You should send me an email, so I'll be able to get in touch with you. Kinda difficult to do that through youtube comments! (My email is in my channel description; I'd post it here but youtube removes comments with links)

[@jemandoondame2581]

What a great offer..

[@patrickthomasius]

@@neoepicurean3772 whaat, you founded it?? Holy shit I ate there recently, its awesome

[@calebm6818]

You might really enjoy/be transiently satisfied by David Benatar's "The Human Predicament". He picks up on some of the themes you discuss here.

[@TheRealisticNihilist]

I love this shit.

[@krunkle5136]

I remember this Python sketch where a housewife had a depressed cat that didn't want to do anything. She then hires a service that confuses the cat with a surreal stage show. Then the cat moves again and runs off. That stuck with me. Occasionally you need to dive into something (or it may even be something involuntary) that changes the status quo, maybe creates a glimpse of how much richer and confounding life can be.

[@captainstrangiato961]

I am personally very compelled by Pyrrhonian skepticism when it comes to observing the world. I was a nihilist and still somewhat pessimistic, and I find myself still sympathetic to it since I find it more rigorous (imo) than moralist theories. But I think that my "hope" of being neutral has saved me from falling to victim to strong pessimistic claims. While it is true life mostly sucks, in many ways, it is hard to know if life simply will be worse for you in the future, or that there is nothing to look forward to, etc. How do you know that your life will certainly get worse? You are right about bodily functions though, I fear for that too, especially since my grandparents had dementia/Alzheimer's. It freaks me out when I forget things sometimes for that reason. But I think it is important to allow the possibility of good things. It's important to be honest about these difficult subjects, which is what you are doing. You are right, when Mill talks about "higher pleasures", they fall victim to the same problem. Hell, even Pyrrhonian skepticism has issues (does it truly remove dogma? will you definitely achieve ataraxia from the removal of strong beliefs?). Philosophers act high and mighty, but sometimes I wonder if my knowledge and awareness of such problems and issues only makes me feel worse or more empty. It's tough. It's harder when the world in many ways is alienating. I am fortunate to have the friends I have.

[@captainstrangiato961]

Finishing up your video, your description of the illusion "reasserting itself" is relatable. Different from some friends I've had who interpret it is thoughts getting in the way of what is real, you seem to view it as the fake distracting us from the emptiness/confusion.

[@KaneB]

I'm not certain that things will get worse. I sure hope they don't, and maybe I'll get lucky! But I anticipate that things will get worse, just based on my observations what's happening in the world today, and on what happens to most people as they get older. I do think I still have plenty of good things to look forward to. It's just that I expect these good things to be distributed increasingly thinly, while the negative things become increasingly severe.

[@captainstrangiato961]

@@KaneB That is reasonable. Thank you for your thoughts.

[@reuelmcintosh1589]

The Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be counted. I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.” And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind. For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

[@warrencolbert9653]

I do like thinking rationally about pessimism. Some people act like you’re a full on nihilist if you have a pessimist outlook.

[@unknownknownsphilosophy7888]

Maybe the very best way to put what I was trying to communicate to you about Zen is "Zen is the practice of making it so the illusion no longer reasserts itself" it really doesn't have to reassert itself (at least 1st person where it matters) what people see 3rd person (who cares) but 1st person the illusion really can stop habitually recapturing you as Hume believes it must.

[@KaneB]

I mean, given that the illusion in this particular case is what allows me to feel positive about life, you're not exactly selling me on Zen there! (I'm kidding. I get that in Zen, the pessimistic evaluation of life that I arrive at through reflection is also illusory.)

[@unknownknownsphilosophy7888]

@@KaneB I meant more the illusion that draws one back into "If I make this video I'll be happy" there is a kind of cycling and treadmill like process going on there. The idea is to step off the treadmill and not get back on it anymore. There are things about life that don't deplete, the idea is to move what generates your happiness to those things. For me, I can't shake that life is weird, I love that, my human condition positive or negative actually seems irrelevant to that weirdness. Weirdness to me seems like a part of reality that is everywhere I look, so I can't lose it nor can I gain it. The presence of that is persistently nice.

[@misticulandrei2234]

What do you think about arguments that strive to show negative states are generally more lasting and more intense than positive states? David Benatar had an interesting thought experiment in which you could choose to experiment 5 minutes of the best possible pleasures, but you would also have to experiment 5 minutes of the worst pain and suffering - since no one would take this deal, it means pain can be a lot worse than pleasure can be good. Then there is also the fact that pain and suffering can be constant and long-lasting (like cacer and chronic depression), while pleasure is always a fleeting experience.

[@KaneB]

This is very obviously true of my own experience. Of course, I can't get inside other people's heads, so I can only speak for myself.

[@jemandoondame2581]

If there was a button that would undo me ever coming into existence, I would press it in an instant.

[@jam9852]

Same here I would press that button faster than anyone could imagine.

[@zachvanslyke4341]

Yes.

[@hermesnoelthefourthway]

"if we only realised what we are losing by the expression of negative emotions, we would be horrified, we lose everything we wish to gain". The fourth way, P. D. Ouspensky. Also see In search of the miraculous, by the same author. The biggest game changer ever

[@youthresist8956]

Interesting video. I’m on the exact opposite side-a staunch, realist philosophical pessimist with a very optimistic personality type.

[@TheRealisticNihilist]

This is one of the funniest videos you've ever produced. Anyway, I wanted to say something about philosophical retention. I think the reason that it's hard to retain philosophical information is that there's not really a lot of philosophical programs that are systematic. There's not like some philosophical "grand theory" for most philosophers. So it's sort of like memorizing random facts from random domains. It's the same reason learning history sucks when you learn it in school. There's no historical narrative, it's just a bunch of random past events that you're to remember, but if you have a grand narrative, it's easier to remember positions because you can see how they fit into a system. Without a system that makes sense to you factoring in how positions relate to it is like trying to remember a series of random numbers or something.

[@KaneB]

You might be right about this, but some philosophers are systematic, and I think I try to be somewhat systematic. I mean, I don't want to dogmatically follow any particular ideology. But I do explicitly try to approach philosophical problems from an empiricist point of view, for example.

[@MS-il3ht]

Spoken like a true Angloamerican

[@wintermatherne2524]

???

[@sisyphus645]

I am in the same position as you are when it comes to work. My work orbits around (mainly) Mathematics and, although I do enjoy it to some extent, it makes me feel aimless at the end of the day. But, I tell myself 'if not Maths, what?'

[@WackyConundrum]

Aren't you interested in reading some pessimistic philosophy? Some recommendations: Arthur Schopenhauer: The World as Will and Representation. Frederick C. Beiser: Weltschmerz - Pessimism in German Philosophy, 1860-1900. Emil Cioran: On the Heights of Despair. Thomas Ligotti: The Conspiracy Against the Human Race. Julio Cabrera: Discomfort and Moral Impediment - The Human Situation, Radical Bioethics and Procreation.

[@KaneB]

I've been planning on reading Schopenhauer for a while. I don't know when I'll get around to it though. There isn't anywhere near enough time in a human life to learn about all the things I'm interested in!

[@mannydemonton2943]

You sir, are a legend. I am certain we would be great friends.

[@a.a.8615]

Hello from Italy. This is the first video of yours I watched and I am a new subscriber. You do make sense...It's rare to find someone with whom talking about such topics. I believe that the so called "pessimists" are in fact REALISTS. Anyway I wonder what you think about Antinatalism and I wonder if you ever read "The Last Messiah" by Peter Wessel Zapffe and/or Better Never to have been. Oh, by the way you do make sense when you talk and you are clear, expressive, fun and entertaining... oh and your video is not full of cutting so you are talented, some people cut every 5 seconds. Keep up the good work. And I like your voice as well. Ciao =)

[@KaneB]

Thank you! As for antinatalism: I like a lot of Benatar's work, and obviously I share a lot of his attitudes, but no, I'm not an antinatalist. I'm a moral antirealist -- I don't think there are any moral facts. The way that I tend to think about morality is in terms of social rules that promote my long-term self-interest. So I make moral judgments, I'll ask: which rules, if followed by all, would tend to make me better off? For example, suppose there's a garden in the community that everybody uses frequently, and as a result the soil and plants are being damaged. Then I can propose the rule: "each person visits the garden no more than once per week." If I follow this rule, I'll have to constrain my behaviour, but in the long run, I'll be better off in a world in which everybody follows that rule than a world in which it continues to be a free-for-all. Applying this to the case of antinatalism: Would I better off in the long run if everybody adopted the rule that they have no children? I very much doubt this. I expect it would result in a lot of social problems. As the population ages, with no younger people entering the workforce, social services such as healthcare would be severely compromised. So antinatalism doesn't seem optimum from my point of view. I'm aware, obviously, that this point doesn't really engage with the standard antinatalist arguments, but that's because they usually approach morality from a very different perspective.

[@injinii4336]

I used to feel like you. I changed. It's possible. I now live in gradients of wellbeing, even through frustration and pain.

[@doloreszhang292]

Definitely worth it. This is the video that made me fall in love with you.

[@asharpminorhk]

Sadly I am not able to delude myself anymore concerning the quality of life.

[@InventiveHarvest]

Many people value working hard and producing over happiness.

[@Calhoun90]

What do you think about the Epicurean thesis that the best feeling consists in the lack of negative feelings?

[@low3242]

You should read Emil Cioran's The Fall Into Time, he dealt with same issues which you're facing right now.

[@tmrttrn]

Best times of your life are not determined by your physical condition but by positive experience. Even if one isn't capable of walking he can have a great life and the feeling of fulfillment, so don't worry about getting older and try to have better life than it was in your "golden years", as you say Life is both tragic and exciting, and it is beautiful that way

[@MD-bk6qw]

Only someone who is not in a bad physical condition could say something like this

[@tmrttrn]

@@MD-bk6qw physical condition aka non-related to your mental/psychological health.

[@lilemont9302]

​@@MD-bk6qwOn average. Obviously, if you're somehow disabled or chromically ill, that might be a problem- no matter the age.

[@Ladomir37]

Great. 🥰

[@hermesnoelthefourthway]

"nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so". Hamlet, Hamlet, act 2, scene 2

[@unknownknownsphilosophy7888]

I like anti-natalism and David Benatar's work for this very reason. Even though I personally live in a state of amazing bliss and happiness 24/7. But I don't feel right at all about rolling the dice on anyone else's behalf. Who am I to act like I know some kid I'd have won't end up like Kane. This is why Huxley's Credo is garbage. Romanticism wins (except for censorship yeah yeah) but really, I always get a kick out of philosophers though, often miserable, take so much for granted, and aren't even really all that skeptical, and most don't know how to be happy cause they like all normal people base their happiness on a "fancier" desire treadmill, the higher pleasures as Kane calls them. Mysticism would cure your life, I talked to you initially cause I felt deep gratitude for the free education you provided. But real satisfaction comes from realizing that life is automatically the craziest dream imaginable, it doesn't require any alterations to be THE CRAZIEST DREAM IMAGINABLE it is that way no matter what, it can't ever lose that amazing quality if you don't cease noticing it. In my own case, endless happiness was granted by just noticing that no alteration in my life's conditions ever subtracted anything from the intrinsic weirdness of the world (which is my source of happiness). That weirdness is beautiful to me, endlessly. Mundane situations especially are totally saturated with this weirdness. With your appreciate of art I'm slightly surprised you don't notice this. You really should do 5-MeO it would permanently alter your life. You might even retract your "It can only get worse from here" sentiment afterward.

[@KaneB]

>> You really should do 5-MeO it would permanently alter your life It's on my bucket list, and I'm certainly open to changing my mind about the views expressed in this video!

[@veganphilosopher1975]

I appreciate your honesty. Video must have been hard to make

[@KaneB]

Actually, the videos like this are a lot quicker and easier than the scripted lecture videos.

[@kokoro7168]

if i would have to choose 3 yt channels that ill watch forever you will certainly be in that three with veritasium. Intellectually they are top tier but i'm not sure if intellectuality sells :D I will definitely watch every single phi video of yours.

[@RCohle452]

Have you looked into the work of David Sinclair especially on the ageing stuff

[@jeremymosa2678]

Our brain is strong to make us belive that life worth it. We have a shitty past and we feel nostalgic, we have nothing to hope for and we keep thinking that things will get better.

[@MaximusTCR]

As most people age, I feel like they tend to rely more on social reward than material enjoyment for lasting fulfillment - not intellectual pleasures as JSM proposed. If I'm correct about this common tendency and forms or social gratification do very little to appeal to your sensibilities, then you are mostly alone in your misery. Good luck

[@TheDeathopper]

I wonder what your thoughts are on Emil Cioran?

[@nilphilodox5759]

I have made some music video. As you said the process of making videos are really frustrating. There are not that many views on my videos either but I watch my own videos a lot. Each time I do it, I feel good and fulfill from watching my own videos. I don't i always had this mindset it something i acquired later in life. You can call make believe, but this makes things a little bit more bearable lol.

[@KaneB]

Well, as long as it makes you feel good, who cares whether it's make-believe? Good to hear you've found tools for coping!

[@nilphilodox5759]

Thanks. I don't know if you know that you have a good dry sense of humor. Love watching your video man. Keep making them!! ♥️♥️

[@TheFinntronaut]

Have you read The Conspiracy against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti? Based on this video, I think you'd like it.

[@KaneB]

No, I haven't read that. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@azerliartock]

@@KaneB That reminds me of Nihil Unbound by Ray Brassier, which I'd also recommend. Maybe it has too much speculative metaphysics for your taste, and it even has a chapter on eliminative materialism that you used to hate. Anyway, I liked the general gist of it

[@KaneB]

@@azerliartock I never hated eliminative materialism, surely?! I mean, it's batty. But I like batty.

[@azerliartock]

@@KaneB Haha, well, then it wasn't hate. I just seem to remember you talking lively about it

[@truediltom]

I’ve struggled with depression my whole life and this topic hits home for me. I think it’s important to eat right, do plenty of exercise, have secure relationships, belong to a good community, and so on before forming an opinion on whether your life is bad.

[@FriedZime]

I agree with most of what you say Kane. I'm quite pessimistic as well. And yes, the concept of "higher" and "lower" pleasures is kind of an elitist notion. Who am I to say to someone that genuinely finds that counting blades of grass is bringing them the most amount of pleasure, is wrong? Sure, I can be skeptical of this actually being the case (which I think in many cases it is), and offer them to try something "higher". But if it is in fact the case that they get most pleasure from this, so be it. As long as you don't hurt others, go for it. Btw, you should read "the human predicament" by David Benatar.

[@MrBaramit]

Thinking about this topic I am reminded of Alber Camus. Here is a quote from Britanica: "Camus uses the Greek legend of Sisyphus, who is condemned by the gods for eternity to repeatedly roll a boulder up a hill only to have it roll down again once he got it to the top, as a metaphor for the individual’s persistent struggle against the essential absurdity of life. According to Camus, the first step an individual must take is to accept the fact of this absurdity. If, as for Sisyphus, suicide is not a possible response, the only alternative is to rebel by rejoicing in the act of rolling the boulder up the hill. " Do you think the option of rebellion is possible?

[@KaneB]

I guess it's possible for some people. It's very difficult to force oneself to feel positively about things, though.

[@chitranshsrivastav4648]

After being ignored by the girl I love for so many months, I also think the same.

[@cazzac4817]

Are we saying it's the examined life that isn't worth living ?

[@KaneB]

I like that!

[@tudormarginean4776]

​@@KaneBI love that, maybe because for some weird reason I like to shit on Socrates and his fans. But I also think it's true, when I think about how my life will continue I feel that's going to be bad. I'm 26, and I lost my grandfather not long ago, and I'l soon my grandmother not a long time from now, sadly. Also, I'll lost my animals, and at some points other people I care about. My health is without any major issue now, but it's going to get worse with age, and I won't be able to have any major impact in philosophy, despite being a PhD student. I am also a bit short, which will affect my dating life. All these thoughts make my life seem worse, altgough usually I'm quite satisfied, so your video described very accurately how I feel. Your channel is the best on youtube, period. I always reccomend your videos to my students and friends, and when you post something new I watch instantly!

[@ExistenceUniversity]

14:00 Perfect description of bad philosophy. Floating abstractions with no ties to reality, nothing to grasp onto, no direction, meandering empty thoughts connected by the thinnest string of word play and misery. Never building anything. Never getting knowledge. Never developing an actual consistent philosophy.

[@KaneB]

wow you're still salty about this video lol?

[@ExistenceUniversity]

@@KaneB I am not salty. I am just commenting to help people that don't want to experience your experience. I took a pause yesterday and returned today. What makes you think I am salty? Why would I be salty that your philosophical ideas harm you while mine brings me happiness? Why do you read my concern for wellbeing as a negative? Are you so lost that you see happy people wanting others to be happy as a bad thing?

[@skube_yo]

What is the quality and longevity of the satisfaction you personally get from helping others? I'm not sure how unusual my temperament is with this, but for me the satisfaction I get in moments where I happen to act altruistically is quite good and long lasting. Not that I pull that off often, I'm not unusually saintly lol. But I have personally found that altruism gives me satisfaction that seems abnormally good and drawn out when compared to the satisfaction from other things. Maybe i am lucky with this. I definitely never decided to be this way, and it doesn't feel in my control. But yeah, satisfaction from helping others is maybe the one kind that hasn't been fleeting for me, or suffers from the hedonic treadmill kind of effect

[@KaneB]

I have altruistic sentiments, so I do enjoy helping others sometimes, but I don't get any deeper satisfaction from that than I do from a whole bunch of other stuff that I like. However, I think my altruism is driven more by reasoning: when I consider what kind of world I'd prefer to live in, I can see that it would benefit me if people helped each other out, so I should make a contribution to that. I'm not a particularly compassionate person. I can see why somebody with a different personality might get more out of altruism.

[@skube_yo]

@@KaneB I see. Love your videos. You're ethics series was fantastic. I've watched your misanthropy video multiple times! Many other favorites too. Your evolutionary debunking argument video had me floored, as I devoted my final philosophy paper in undergrad to it a year or so ago. Nice that you made a convenient way for me to revisit it

[@KaneB]

@@skube_yo Thanks very much!

[@adrianmarkstrom6692]

Peter Singer has talked about this quite a bit in his works on effective altruism. I think there's a lot of truth here.

[@MIKAEL212345]

Do you never look back on all the videos you made and feel satisfied at all the videos you put out? That was what seemed obvious to me. It may not be satisfying making the videos, it may not be satisfying right after making it, but weeks, months or years later, it will be satisfying.

[@KaneB]

I rarely look back on anything I make. In fact, I used to delete all my video files, plus the scripts and slides for them, after uploading them. I only started saving the scripts and slides in the last year or so since people starting asking if they could have them. Also, I do occasionally watch my old videos if I need to refresh my memory of a topic. But I don't feel any satisfaction from that. It feels no different from watching a video made by somebody else.

[@viinisaari]

So the central point is, the human mind is hard-coded in a way that overhypes future feelings of reward, and constantly kinda lies to you? And that this illusion of future happiness is why people don't realize they are actually unhappy? That would make sense to me.

[@KaneB]

Well, I should only speak for myself, rather than "people" in general. But yeah, that sums it up for me. Most of the time my disposition is fairly positive, because I'm operating under the illusion of future satisfaction.

[@suddenuprising]

best channel on youtube

[@KaneB]

Thank you!

[@justus4684]

New video 😍

[@saityavuz76]

As someone who watches your videos often, I should tell you that you do ramble a lot, and people telling you that you make sense are missing your point. You see, the density of your videos are quite low in terms of meaning, which is one of the reasons I like them. Sometimes I find these books and videos that are so densely packed in meaning that it puts a high cognitive load on me. Your videos lack that, you dance around a number of subjects in a loose manner with tangents that are soft as opposed to hard. In a way, it makes for a fun little listen as it primes me up for thoughts around subjects. I don't have to be on the lookout to reflect heavily on the implications of your statements compared to dense work, you repeat yourself often too, which also lowers the density. The question you should ask yourself is whether you want more dense content or not. Remember, in the end density and mass are relational, just because you increase the density doesn't mean you'll have more mass. In the end, you are creating an experience not just for us, but for your mind, your content is a reflection of you, and in this regard, you are a walker, you graze around subjects, sharing your beliefs, perspectives whilst you roam around things. This is an oversimplification but I really do perceive you in that regard, again, I don't find it negative at all, but is it who you want to be? I think this attribute of your content is one of the key reasons why you don't feel fulfilled to the extent that you want out of your content. Artists often find their more dense works to be more fulfilling to them from what I have heard. Obviously, it is not the only factor, however, it must be playing a role. Perhaps you should try to not stick so close to the subject of your talk, and or use as many unique perspectives with heavy implications in shorter bursts of expression with more editing as opposed to having it all be one take.

[@orelazarevic2796]

What about Nietzsche's "He who has a why can bear almost any how. Man does not aspire to happiness; only the Englishman does that". It seems like you equate the worth of life with its quality (e.i. our animality ("higher pleasures" included)), but that necessarily leads to pessimism (or nihilism of despair as B. Reginster calls it). That's Schopenhauer's position, but Nietzsche thinks that that position is a remaining part of Christianity, namely, the value of truth. As you said at the end, you are unhappy when you're conscious of your life, when you reflect on it. If you're only focused on certain external values (which for Nietzsche were art, culture and writing books), when you have your mythology, then that thought isn't there. That is sort of intellectual suicide, but only for "weak wills", as Nietzsche would say, because the strong will is intellectual in the sense that it is conscious of the contingency of the value of truth (i.e. its Christian origin) and so it puts it behind.

[@KaneB]

Views like this always strike me as conceding the important points. I read them as pretty much just acknowledging that life sucks, and then offering ways to live with that. But I admit that my orientation is strongly hedonistic. For me, the value of life is a matter of the quality of the experiences -- how it feels from the inside.

[@azaraniichan]

@@KaneB Nietzsche's point isn't so much that life sucks and that we should deal with it. He acknowledges the suffering inherent to life but tried to push people to see past different forms of dualism, as if life was either good or bad. The disatisfaction one can have with philosophy isn't so different from the one you can have from focusing on only ''animalistic pleasures'', they're more akin to a false dichotomy we established at some point in time. In this sense hedonism is also a sort of refuge not too dissimilar from the one those choose when putting an end to teir life. Not trying to see life as merely something good or bad, pleasurable or painful, where there's only truth or falsity, is a call to own your life and to take an active part in the world. And it depends upon 'how it feels from the inside' once you've looked past the standards imposed on you during your upbringing.

[@francisdec1615]

Schopenhauer is right. One dark irony that I always felt is that Schopenhauer lived a relatively "good" life and died a quick and painless death, while Nietzsche suffered a lot, got mentally ill at 45 and died of pneumonia at 56.

[@jonathanmitchell8698]

I find eastern philosophy interesting regarding this topic. Buddhism, I think, would say something kind of similar to this video, but propose that we forgo desires and expectations for the future. I don't think the fabric of existence is fundamentally bad. Rocks do not suffer. But the brutal march of natural selection has endowed living things with unquenchable desire and with unavoidable capacity for suffering. We could strive to become more like the tranquil and blind forces of the inanimate world, and that would make life okay. I think Hindu philosophy would take a different approach, and view life as fundamentally good (or at least more good than bad). In that view, the position of an individual as a "self" is an illusion. There may be much suffering experiences by the "self", but it's all illusory. In moments of transcendence you can forget the role that you are playing and return to the "Brahman" or universal self, where you see all of reality as a drama, where the good and the bad are both required for something interesting to happen. I guess I'm not sure how I feel about it all. It's hard to imagine how a universe could exist with living creatures and not fill those creatures with suffering and unfulfillable desires. It seems to me that desire is, by it's very nature/definition unfulfillable. It seems that pleasure is a rate of change, not an absolute value. You feel good when you approach something you desire, and when your reach it, you stop moving and the good feeling subsides.

[@dogsdomain8458]

Do you need a hug, Kane B?

[@KaneB]

No.

[@Kenji17171]

Most people are happy

[@doloreszhang292]

Somehow I feel The Myth of Sisyphus as being relevant to all these expositions

[@hahahalol-hf1gb]

I've been doing some painfully satisfying things like cold showers and working out and it provides some benefits. I'm probably in the best shape of my life, enjoying myself, and I'm older than you, so it doesn't necessarily get worse. it's up to you.

[@KaneB]

Sooner or later, it always get worse. Though I will grant that there have been improvements. As I've gotten older, I've managed to mostly overcome my anxiety problems. Or at least, I've figured out ways of living with them. That's obviously a good thing. Though it would have been better if I never had to deal with them in the first place!

[@Jinnai89]

the body and mind go to extreme lengths to preserve your life

[@lawrence9506]

He that gains knowledge gains sorrow. He that gains wisdom gains misery.

[@athko]

"half of your life is done, and it was pain and error through and through: why do you still seek on? precisely this i seek: the reason why!" - nietzsche, the gay science, prelude, section 61

[@yuriarin3237]

P1 If someone deems their life not worth living, they would end it (Daniel Hausman: preferences as 'all things considered' subjective valuations. Preferences are revealed in choices.) P2 most people do not end their lives C most people deem their life worth living But I do hope you can have brighter days ahead, best wishes from a narco-capital ridden Third world country. Also I remember reading something backed by Barbara Oakley, that said that executive function continues to improve with age (so 50 and 60 years old have it better-developed) and that it was able to counteract a lot of the 'physical' aspects of cognitive decline. Also this is your brain on hedonist utilitarianism, Aristotle was right

[@francisdec1615]

They don't deem their life worth living, they just don't dare to kill themselves, but at least we pessimists dare to be honest about that fact.

[@yuriarin3237]

@@francisdec1615 ​ What I find problematic is that you are taking these expressions as the mere 'mirroring' of already formed feelings/thoughts, such that if I say 'I don't deem life worth living' that is the incorrigible expression of some 'inner feeling'. I don't think it makes sense to understand psychological parlance under that model. Our 'expressions of feeling' are more like _reactions to our behavioral and mental life rather than propositions that express some inner something. As reactions they serve some purpose, cultures who have well-formed expressions of grief are able to react better to certain situations than cultures which do not have vocabulary for talking about grief. But what purpose is served by reacting to our own predicament with 'this is horrible and not worth living'? Unless you want to go the Fodor/Plato way of seeing propositions and meanings as some ineffable primitives (for example, for Fodor the meaning of 'kettle' can be just expressed by 'kettle', and we are in immediate metaphysical apprehension of its meaning, no questions asked and no explications available), such that we are completely beholden to our own meanings (assumption that I think Wittgenstein, Davidson , etc. give the lie to), this kind of pessimistic discourse ends up being a childish grunt

[@mrpickle6290]

Hi Kane. Your feelings on you not retaining any information on what you learn, and just going on to the next thing sounds a lot like a particular personality disposition. I have a very similar disposition where, I have a very hard time being able to construct an intellectual framework, rather, I just want to know what a framework is, and then use it somehow to understand the thing I want to understand, this is what you would call extraverted thinking in Jungian terms. There is also a sense of schizophrenic-like idea hopping, where one does not really rest on the same idea for too long, and never wanting to be the same person for too long, being an ever changing mass of thoughts and feelings. This is what I would call extroverted intuition in Jungian terms. I find, others with different dispositions cannot relate to these cognitive flavours, but I have come to peace with how my biological wiring affects my thoughts and feelings. Hopefully this helps give peace that you are not alone, and that there are some who relate quite a bit to what you're saying, but also, that these characteristics of yourself are not a weakness, but a strength. P.S. excuse the woowoo energy.

[@justus4684]

18:01 EXACTLY 😂😂😂😂