PET Cemetery: SuperPET Resurrection

[@RudysRetroIntel]

Thanks for the shout-out!! It was great working on and getting those Super PET boards alive again.

[@RobbCochran-l2u]

It's nice that we live in a time where we can Scan the Traces on an old Board that's DeLaminating and design an Almost Perfect Replica if we need to, and order it Online so we can replace all the Chips over to the Functional Replica Board if we really need to...

[@tk27a]

What amazes me about your projects is your ability to see them through to successful completion. Too often, I can take my DIY projects to 85%, but overcoming the final 15% is always a challenge. Your Chuck and Rudy are essential to your success, highlighting the importance of building a strong network of exceptional people.

[@DavesGarage]

Thanks! All my life, actually finishing stuff (especially software projects) has been my superpower for some reason....

[@jeffereywilson1310]

On "Why does isopropyl alcohol take longer to dry with a compressor than water?" My suspicion is that since most compressors collect atmospheric water in the storage tank. If you don't have an inline dryer in the compressor, this water ends up in the compressed air stream, and with alcohol being hydroscopic, it joins with the alcohol on the board, increasing its volume (rather that making it evaporate faster). You can check this theory by using a high flow fan instead of the compressor and see which one dries faster. That's my working theory anyway... ;-)

[@oldbuzzardvideo1399]

My thought was that the quick evaporation of the alcohol brought the surface temp to below the dew point. The alcohol is evaporated quickly but it leaves the board condensing water out of the air until the board is above the dew point.

[@thromboid]

​@@oldbuzzardvideo1399I was thinking the same thing. I've noticed that contact cleaner behaves this way, evaporating quickly, cooling the surface, and causing water to condense. Quite annoying.

[@thromboid]

It's also true that air compressors have issues with water condensation, so...

[@robertbackhaus8911]

My thought is different surface tension. Water's strong tension means it balls up and is blown away, but more sticky alcohol stays on to the board until it evaporates.

[@KevinToppenberg]

My friend and I copied in all the hex codes from some magazine into the low level CPU program on the PET that our school got, when we were in 4th grade. Out came space invaders!

[@GeoffSeeley]

The PET was the first computer I saw in grade 7 and something about it fascinated me. I signed up for "computer time" before and after school (I was the first kid to arrive at school and the last to leave most days). I was hooked once it dawned on me that I could make that computer do anything I wanted with enough time and knowledge. First home computer was a VIC-20 then the range of Commodore machines but I never owned a PET myself but I want one. Thanks for the look at these rare machines.

[@wtmayhew]

The PET with Chicklet keyboard was the first true personal computer I saw. It was in the pages of the Olson Electronics catalog. Olson was a company which sold soup to nuts electronic stuff by mail order and in a few stores. Olson was a bit like Fry’s before Fry’s but Olson never sold groceries. You could get your Motorola HEP series RTL chips or a quadraphonic stereo and most things in between.

[@GeoffSeeley]

@@wtmayhew one of the 4 PETs the school had was the chicklet keyboard with cassette. Thinking about it now, that keyboard was horrible but as a kid, I didn't care about that. I was just happy to be using a computer.

[@wtmayhew]

@ Thanks for sharing. The high school I attended did not have any personal computers, though I believe PETs were available my senior year. One of the math teachers taught FORTRAN. Students had to submit FORTRAN coding sheets and students from the office vocational program type the cards on an IBM 029 key punch machine. Cards were batched and run once or twice a week on a Burroughs B series mainframe computer in an administration office across the street from the school. The computer facility sent back the printer green bar listings and the console log on yellow roll Teletype paper. With such a slow turn-around, one’s logic flow and punctuation were checked over and over. The computer facility had originally been a carry-out pizza shop. Two of my friends got independent study permission from a physics instructor and they were working making a computer from TTL using 74181 ALU cores and a lot of small scale parts. They used a handful of 1K bit 21L02 static RAM chips. They eventually got to the point of driving a 7-segment display from a calculator and print a few characters on a Baudot code Teletype. It is hard to believe how much easier we have it now.

[@Thin447Line]

My dad worked in an "assembly line" computer manufacturer back in the 80s. I got several informal tours. My dad's silly job was to apply a water soluble "solder mask" to all metal components like edge connectors (gold fingers) and power supply connection points. As the boards were populated with chips and components by big automated robots and then put on a conveyor and passed over a "flow solder" machine. A literal fountain of molten solder would instantly solder all the components at once. The boards were then put in an industrial dish washer to wash off the solder masking material that looked like dried ketchup. Then they would "bake" them in a low temp oven to dry them out. Generally speaking, water on electronics is perfectly fine as long as there is no power applied. Cool video.

[@a4d9]

It depends on what kind of component it is. Many components can handle it without problems, but some will either degrade or be destroyed, regardless of whether there is power or not. If the factory produced circuit boards with such sensitive components, they were assembled after washing.

[@Thin447Line]

@@a4d9 Of course today. But this was 1980's era computers. Of course, they did have rows of technicians to hand solder certain components that wouldn't work in the automated assembly robots, or like you said, too sensitive for the flow solder and washing process. I had one of the systems from my dad's employer from a friend of his that mentored me in my interest in computers back then. He built it out of spare parts from the "reject" bin due to cosmetic or minor defects. It was a Zilog Z80 based system with I think 32 kilobytes of RAM and two 5 1/4" floppy drives that could boot CP/M and run MBASIC. I was one of the first nerds to turn in my homework using Wordstar and a Epson dot-matrix printer. My nickname was "Space Cadet."

[@wtmayhew]

I backed up the help desk duties at an old job. The worst calls were coffee with cream and sugar, most often into the keyboard. Pretty much nothing ever gets all the sugar out and it is hygroscopic. Any humidity makes the residue swell and keys bind. That was typically a new keyboard for the user. Diet Coke or unsweetened tea in the keyboard was usually fixable. We had a desiccation oven set to 100 degrees F. To bake out cleaned off parts after initial drying. You have to watch boards which have gotten wet growing tin dendrites between traces. Prompt removal of power, good rinsing and thorough drying goes a,long way to prevent dendrites.

[@JM-jv6cb]

Awsome. I remember working on my 64 in late 80,s. I forgot all of it now though. Very awesome to see you taking the time to fix a legendary machine 👍👍👍

[@RobbCochran-l2u]

Me too lol, I remember collecting every Disk and Part for it that I could get my Hands on all the way into the Late 90's

[@torbjornlindh5108]

I’ve spent many long, wonderful, nights working with one of those. First real experience with APL; now I wish I had delved into Cobol too. Unfortunately, I discarded it almost 20 years ago:-( Great work restoring these two!

[@msromike123]

What a treat. Thank you. I started on a VIC-20 in 1980.

[@alliejr]

Same

[@Darkk6969]

Same here!!

[@miscellaneousHandle]

same. vic-20 to a //e to a career in software

[@msromike123]

@@miscellaneousHandle I went into the Atari ecosystem for the next 10 years, until my first home built 386 PC clone. ST was amazing but the writing was on the wall.

[@TheBugkillah]

Same!

[@sunrunnernge560]

Love it! You rock Dave!

[@wallyhall]

I genuinely thought you were mugging me off with a DODGE coin joke with “bodge” 😂. I am forever now going to pronounce it your way! Ty!

[@bradnelson3595]

Nice fix, Dave. It's nice to see something old become like-new again.

[@chrisknowles]

Does this ever bring back memories! I cut my electronics and programming teeth first on an 8k PET, then my Dad upgraded to the 32k SuperPet. He was a High School math teacher, and had a degree in Math and Computer Science. In the late '70's to early '80's, He founded the computer program at the Highschool and as a 14 year old, I helped at a night school program that he also developed. He wrote a program that simulated a nuclear reactor, and because of the limited space in RAM he used the tape drive as swap space. Together we created a switching interface to a standard tape recorder so that an audio track would synchronize with the animation. I've been working in I.T. ever since. My Dad passed in 2000 after 12 year battle with early onset Alzheimer's disease. I will be forever grateful for the love of learning that he instilled in us. Now I'm months away from retirement. I'm in my 60's now and am passing the torch on to my grandson.

[@mtpaley1]

Fond memories. My mum was a teacher and brought a PET back for the summer holidays. I was hooked!

[@mtpaley1]

PET - BBC Micro - Atari ST 1024FTM - Atari ST Mega4 (got very into MiNT on the STs) - various PCs all of which were extensively tweaked over the years + honorable mention to the several raspberry PIs that I have running things around my house.

[@Ro-Bucks]

You need a water filer on the air line, the alcohol is attracting the motor from the compressor. Their little cheap inline ones with a stone, I use them when I paint with a gun. Also tip after draining the pressure out of the compressor unscrew the vale completely and pour the water, store with the vale off for max life because they can fill right up over time and rust out from the inside out and explode without warning.

[@Eneeki]

I have been upgrading my PET for decades. It currently has a 5950X with an RTX4070 in it. I used a flat panel LCD as a screen, cleared out the entire interior, and replaced them with modern components and vented the rear of the monitor section for airflow. The keyboard was the hardest part to address. It was a surprisingly easy and fun project.

[@ian-nz-2000]

Back in my Uni student days I spilt milk in my BBC micro and my landlady got quite a shock to fins its disassembled parts drying in her bath after I put them all through the shower! No compressed air or IPA, I just drained them off and left them in the sun. The machine didn't miss a beat.

[@schifoso]

The 8 bit guy would be proud of your work. :-)

[@JoesComputerMuseum]

Great video Dave, and awesome shout out for my friend Rudy!

[@theantipope4354]

'Bodge' rhymes with 'dodge'. Bodge means pretty much the same thing as 'kludge', which is the more American expression. Both refer to quick & dirty hacks.

[@markb5710]

"Bod-ge", from an artisan who made beech wood furniture in the woods; Bodger. Likely because every one was unique and just good enough to work.

[@markmuir7338]

To reduce the chances of lifting traces when removing a chip: after you’ve desoldered the pins, use a hot air rework station to uniformly heat the board around the pins. The chip should then fall out under its own weight. Warnings: 1) if it takes more than around 2 minutes, the hot air could warp the PCB. 2) Hot air will melt plastic in the vicinity, so use kapton tape to cover nearby slots and connectors.

[@HarleyPebley]

2:30 Haha. Reminds me of a customer's (a fire department) IT manager who on a semi-regular basis would gather up all the Wyse 50 keyboards from the stations, completely disassemble them and run them through the HQ's dishwasher. Keys would go in the silverware holders, PC boards and cases fit nicely in the racks like plates. It did work to keep all the diesel dust from accumulating too much.

[@blai5e730]

I use "pure gum turps" to clean the yellowed/dirty plastics. Works a treat and never had any long-term issues.

[@supertuffy]

I don't normally applaud after watching a TY video, but I genuinely did for this one. 👏🏻👏🏻

[@pebbleschan6085]

Dave, For desoldering, use a dab of flux paste to protect the PCB from unnecessary damage. The flux paste acts as a thermal conductivity medium to spread the heat evenly. 🎉

[@pfabiszewski]

Desoldering with fresh solder is easier due to presence of flux. In case of newer devices - they don’t contain leaded solder so adding fresh, leaded solder also helps. Cool vid!

[@aarong9378]

I added a reset button to my 8032, drilling a hole in the front of the case for the momentary-open switch. This was the best, simplest upgrade I did on that old computer. Why they didn't have a reset button on the computer already is beyond me.

[@EVPaddy]

my C64 had reset button, a stop switch and later a ROM switch knob. The 1541 had address switches. I needed the ROM switching to have an SFD1001 work with the C64...

[@necronom]

I put a reset button on my 4032, though it's on the left side on the lower half (black metal) as there is a handy notch already there so I could put the button in that and not mod the case at all.

[@kapstersmusic]

My first computer was a PET 2001! My dad grabbed it second-hand from a school or something. He had the IBM 5150 in his room, he was an IBM'er. The PET had the chiclet keyboard, 4kb ram, and the cassette drive. Played a mean game of Invaders, also some Bomberman clone, and that lunar lander game. The character based graphics were more useful than most people would imagine. I wrote a scrolling race car game in Basic, then got bored with the PET. Wish I had kept it and the cassettes with the games.

[@dhpbear2]

2:28 - I believe it's good practice to remove any socketed IC's before cleaning the board. Or at least, re-seated.

[@SteveBrecht]

I have a SuperPET sitting in storage... thinking it's time to pull it out too. Also with it are a PET 2001, and a PET 4096 with the rare purple screen.

[@howiedewin3688]

I used to clean keyboards by removing the electronics & put them in the dishwasher. Worked great.

[@wdolgae]

Done that exact board washing technique MANY times at my first job of phone equipment repair.

[@AllboroLCD]

From tube amps to vintage PC's, I love me some electronic necromancy videos.

[@hingstonia]

I remember working with the PET back in 1979 in high school. They were to be an upgrade from an old IBM systems. Fond memories of cursing while learning to program

[@skpince]

I actually wrote code on these in 1979. Before that my first lines of code were written on an hp with a led display and cassette deck as a storage medium. You could attach it to a special typewriter to get a print out. You now know how old I am.

[@stewartpalmer2456]

LOL. It looks like the insides of my Silver Ball pinball machine. Only I did an LED upgrade to the play table.

[@johnpearcey]

It's wierd to see those old machines again. I learnt to progran on the PET 64K.

[@thenoblerot]

Nice to see the SuperPETs! With 2, you could set up a network with their HOSTCM file server!

[@modernandretrogaming]

Gorgerous machines and great work with them.

[@randalwc]

Down here in the mid south we call them jumper wires. I believe if somebody would have ever called them bodge, they might just get ran off. I think though that bodge means a temporary fix...but yours appear to be permanent jumpers.

[@danieldare2640]

I defer to your experience but I have never seen a circuit board cleaned that way I will perhaps try it one day. Thank you for the channel

[@mtpaley1]

There have been numerous occasions at work where I have been hot air blasting PCBs using the hand dryers in the toilets and people have given me very strange looks. It is a good way to get rid of flux cleaner (especially around pH amplifiers).

[@joshuamacdonald4913]

I would love a pet, even a “needs work” one. I am an engineering student and I am using a vic 20 for my senior project but would swap in a pet in a heartbeat!

[@myleft9397]

Whoa. I saw a SuperPET at a computer show once but I thought it was something someone had hacked together themselves and pasted the "super" badge on. I didn't know this was a real computer until now XD

[@dbhansen]

hahah +1 for the Friendly Giant reference at the end!

[@Meower68]

It's difficult to get ethanol to 100% purity because it wants to loose-bond with water. Alcohol, with water loosely bonded to it, will evaporate a lot faster than just water, when hitting it with compressed air. Ergo, ethanol is a good way to clean up really stubborn water infiltration.

[@pjbth]

These are a number of years older than i am, and i have no connection to them but its fun to watch Dave do stuff and its basic enough i still kind of understand 25% of it. I have my own local AI now to torture.

[@bradquinn2859]

I learned to program in APL on a SuperPET back in the day.

[@woodand]

its BOD-GE .. bodging is how most of us (at least in Britain) without formal training or any inherent skill perform any repair on anything from electronics to shed roofs ..

[@aytviewer2421]

The original PET models (after the 2001?) were named with two sets of dual-digit numbers, like 8032 or 4016. The first two numbers "80" or "40" represented the number of on-screen character columns. The second set of numbers (I think up to 32) identified the amount of RAM (in K) shipped with the machine. Thus an 8032 had 80 columns of text and 32K of RAM.

[@jfseaman1]

Yes, it is the cooling effect. Causes some condensation. I use this technique on motorcycle parts.

[@davecool42]

My first ever computer was a Commodore PET with a cassette drive in the case.

[@WoodsPrecisionArms]

I love Dave he is just old school technician bad ass

[@sdrc92126]

Never trust a programmer with a screwdriver

[@rogerp5816]

Will you be running a prime sieve so we all knowhow much faster the Thread Ripper then the Supper Pet?

[@volvo09]

the super pet has a chance to win, it's super after all!

[@NullStaticVoid]

One of the first computers I ever interacted with. The Doctor Who fan club I was in back in the late 70s early 80s shared a library multiuse room with a computer nerd group once a month. Basically they came in right after us and would set up a bunch of Apples and Commodores with the crudest games you have ever seen.

[@richardbrobeck2384]

Great Video Dave and bodge wires !

[@gpTeacher]

Nice you got WatBASIC running! Congrats Dave!

[@TheEmbeddedHobbyist]

My PET 4016 is still working fine. I upgraded it to 32k at some point, its a bit hard to remember when as I must have bought it around 44 years ago 😅😂 Still need to fix the tape player but the single floppy still works fine.

[@KameraShy]

Evaporation experience with IPA may depend on its concentration. Tech tip: IPA in concentrations of 60% to 90% is more effective at killing germs that over 90%. The water breaks down the cell structure.

[@gsedej_MB]

Dave from garage and Dave from 8bit repairing PETs is the best content

[@r7boatguy]

We had a PET at high school, but I never got to use it. I recall it had an odd flat keyboard. Maybe I should try and find one!

[@evensgrey]

I know that the lead will slowly oxidize in leader solder, especially if there's stuff like water getting to it. Lead oxide won't melt at any reasonable temperature.

[@kenmix6974]

I remember when the PET came out back in 1976. I didn't know they made a Super PET. Where is the disk drive? I didn't see it in the video. It cool you can make these old machines work. The first computer I worked on was an IBM 1401. Not likely to find one of those in some one's garage.

[@Sevenfeet0]

I barely even remember that the SuperPET was a thing. And rinsing a motherboard in WATER(?!?!?!?). Didn't think that was possible. I've learned something!

[@jamesocker5235]

just remind consumers is most PC boards are cleaned in water to clean flux after infrared thermal soldering

[@CryingCroc.]

0:44 Made in USA - You don't see that anymore nowadays! 😔

[@volvo09]

It's amazing how radios, TV's, phone systems, vacuum tubes, transistors, etc.... used to be made in the US. My grandparents met in a factory assembling boards for transistorized PBX systems while working for ATT. My grandpa gave me a reject board as a kid and I wanted to make it work, but I was like 8, so I couldn't do anything with it 😂

[@sdrc92126]

@@volvo09 I used to design CPUs that were made in the USA. They went into things like car ECUs. Our fab was very big and was also in the US

[@jamescarver6275]

No 'Hey I'm Dave' at the beginning ??? Its an institution!

[@LorenzoAlali]

I missed even more the "In the meantime and in between times, I hope to see you next time" at the end!

[@oldbuzzardvideo1399]

kludge [klo͞oj] noun an ill-assorted collection of parts assembled to fulfill a particular purpose. Is that the word you're looking for Dave? Also, I'm guessing the evaporative cooling with alcohol drives the surface temp below the dew point, and the board has to warm to above the dew point to quit condensing water out of the air. Cheers!

[@acraigwest]

I love the PETs and superPETs... I didn't know you were from Regina, I seem to be running across other Saskatchewan people all over the place this week

[@RobbCochran-l2u]

Oh Awesome! Kids have NO IDEA how badly we wanted these when we were kids, they were nearly Unobtanium back in the day and were Literal Magic, when I got my hands on an c64 as a 7 year old, then a c128 which kinda even blew my mind that "the Memory was Doubled, then Ultimately an Amiga when I was about 14 I was Blown Away, but I StiLL wanted a PET SO BAD because those were the ones I saw on Old Movies. I finally got my grubby fingers on an OLD "Kay-Pro II" that I had to fix, it didn't do much, but... Technically it was one of the First "LapTop's" - or Portable Computers, and I used to lug that CHONKY BOY around everywhere - and because I lugged it to school one day to show to my Teacher "Mr Kilgore" and he saw that I was teaching kids how Computers "WORK" - Mr Kilgore talked to the Principal and told them about it and we started the Schools First Ever "Technology Class" - 30 years Later - They Still have the Program so I guess I did a Good Thing :)

[@RobbCochran-l2u]

- Crazy Enough, They STILL have my Old C64, Kay-Pro II, and one of the Apple II's that Mrs Williams let me fix while I was in Detention (I wasn't interested in Homework lol) and the Apple IIgs we raised money for and picked up New before I moved - in a Display Case

[@fixsomebits]

Great video, thanks! Maybe not so fast next time, more details would be great!

[@dave24-73]

My mum brought a PET home from work one day, and I remember playing games on it, later we got the C64, then Amigas, such a shame Commodore died, there was a time they were well ahead of the game. I’ve seen worse, I’ve seen people put their motherboards in a dishwasher, seems to work, I’m guessing they don’t add powder.

[@RobertFletcherOBE]

bodge is an old British word. the od is pronounced like the word odd

[@Geek-A-Hertz8707]

dave you might consider using distilled water instead of water out of the faucet.

[@RonLeedy]

Had a chicklet PET but never a Super PET. A little envious now.

[@8antipode9]

Nice video, although I've never worked on (or even seen) a Pet before, I've fixed and restored quite a few old machines. I've never heard "bodge" pronounced any other way than "BAH-j". It can be almost impossible removing parts from these old boards without breaking something, as depending on the manufacture, many of them are super cheaply made. Combine that with ground planes and soldered RF shielding and you can have a real nightmare.

[@Davide0033]

who doesn't love their pets

[@johncloar1692]

Nice job Dave!

[@wadz668]

The title alone is enough to entice me to watch. Interesting that you use water on the PCB. I've always use IPA.

[@n8wrl]

Congrats on a job well done!

[@Magicrat39]

Started with a vic20 Got upgraded to c64 Now 30 years into a ms enginner and virtualization engineer career

[@ryancraig2795]

Love the Friendly Giant inspired ending. Did you study at Waterloo?

[@Jenny_Digital]

I think alcohol is hydrophilic. This means you’re trying to dry a mixture Dave. At least that’s true of ethanol, though I’m not so sure about IPA.

[@craftsman123456]

Nice. I'm hoping to see you add an OS9 board to them.

[@amundsen575]

Major fopaux , your test program should display "HELLO WORLD"

[@taxidude]

First computer I ever used back in the late 70s.

[@xnamkcor]

Pro Tip: If your IPA lists its ABV on the bottle, you're using the wrong IPA.

[@Sydney268]

Nice work, bodge definitely rhymes with dodge and not rogue

[@larryjanus596]

The Friendly Giant: "Look Up. Waaaaay Up."

[@tekk9995]

You should see the PETSCII demo's they make for the PET....

[@ColdWarAviator]

My theory about the alcohol/water dry times has to do with the initial evaporation of each. If you've ever splashed alcohol on your hands and waved them around, you will have noticed how COLD they seem to get... Much COLDER than water soaked hands. (Product of evaporative cooling effect) Now HERE is where I'm just making an assumption: because alcohol extracts heat faster than water from any other surface, that surface gets COLDER more QUICKLY, and then as a result the part which has alcohol on it will take about the same time as water to dry... EVEN THOUGH it's seems counterintuitive. 🤔 Just my guess.

[@JoseJimeniz]

Time for the Super PET Prime Drag Race!

[@Quazee137]

What eproms can you make use of here? I have a lot of the 27xx and otp versions too. Need to find good homes for them as for now they sit in boxes in Astro's "The bunny" room.

[@launadro1646]

My brothers PET was the 1st computer I used

[@randyfriend]

What is the criteria for computers getting to join your collection? Prior use, interest, intrigue, rarity, or 'it was a Tuesday'...

[@paulholmes672]

Dave, you do PETs? Wow, still have my Commodore 64 with the 1541, and a few 5.25" disks, as well as the cassette drive, but haven't tried to power it in years (and yes, I have a couple of CRT's still working). Hope to have some time to tinker with it someday.

[@wtmayhew]

Ah yes, the old scrolling sine curve in a few lines of BASIC. If I had a nickel every time I keyed that in playing around in computer shops back in the late 1970s / early 1980s! …

[@Hykje]

"I don't wanna be buried in a PET Cemetary I don't wanna reboot again."

[@VK2FVAX]

I dearly wish someone would reverse engineer the SuperPET boards for the 8032 so we could buy and solder them up. Wanted one for decades for my system. :)