Peter Thiel, Palmer Luckey, and Alex Epstein discuss Fossil Future

On April 16, 2022, to celebrate the launch of Fossil Future, Palmer Luckey, founder of Oculus VR and Anduril, hosted Alex Epstein and Peter Thiel for a wide-ranging discussion about the future of energy. Chris Williamson, host of the Modern Wisdom podcast, moderated, and Palmer and Alex had a follow-up discussion after the event focused on energy and national security.
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[@brandonbedford6986]

Before Alex introduced Chris I couldn’t stop thinking “Damn Palmer got jacked.”

[@jwhubert91]

Lol same

[@colemillar8928]

You can tell it's not him because he's not wearing a hawaiian shirt

[@robcooke1956]

As a professional engineer schooled at Berkeley in the 70's, I really didn't respect Philosophy majors. I put them up there with basket weaving. But reading both of Alex's books, twice, and listening to him speak, I have recalibrated my respect for Philosophy. His clarity of thought and impeccable logic demands respect from all who just want truth and facts not environmental religion. Senator Barbara Boxer dismissed Alex at a Senate hearing for being a "Philosopher" and not a "Scientist" who drank the Kool aid. Great thinkers are willing to buck current thinking using first principles and a solid framework. We owe Alex a great deal ... including our respect. Keep up the good work Alex, humanity needs you, especially the impoverished!!

[@OptimalOwl]

I honestly respect basket weaving more than the average degree. If you know how to do one real thing, then that's one more thing than the median college graduate knows.

[@cellocovers3982]

Probably most philosophy majors aren't going to produce much of anything that we would deem valuable unless they branch out beyond philosophy. They certainly aren't normally successful by our modern standards. However, when you look past superficial things like fame and fortune, there is much to respect about certain domains within the field. What value do you place on truth?

[@genesmith3582]

You must be a pretty slow engineer to fall for Alex Epstein's propaganda. He's a blatant shill for the fossil fuel industry.

[@OptimalOwl]

​@@genesmith3582 You know it's funny, I hear the exact same argument made by climate skeptics. They point out that there's an awful lot of money and status and career opportunities in toeing the IPCC line, and use that as a reason for embracing heterodox views. Though for my money, I mostly reject this line of argumentation. If you were some group looking to spend money to further an agenda, would you rather pay someone to change his mind and argue for something he doesn't believe in, or find someone who already believes what you want said and pay to make him do it more and louder? Because I think the latter sort of advocate is generally going to be much more persuasive. My standard for evidence for this sort of thing is when a) someone quite abruptly changes his mind, b) for no adequately explained reason, c) after receiving some large reward from someone who stands to gain. So for instance, I mostly take advocates for open borders at their word that they believe in what they say. But when NYT abandoned their stance of restricting labour migration to boost union bargaining power, without explaining why, after being generously bailed out by a Mexican robber baron who makes a fortune off of remittances? _That_ looks to me like paid shilling.

[@Boratio]

I didn’t respect philosophy either until watching Bernardo Kastrup on Kurt Jaimungal’s “Theory of Everything”. He started off as a CompSci PhD working at CERN at 22 and helping write programs to model experiments. Later he cofounder a tech company that Intel bought and was I think the youngest executive at and in the history of ASML for a time. He eventually got a degree in philosophy and basically said, if I remember right, that it’s far more valuable than his CS PhD. Some of his philosophy and his thoughts in general I’ve found valuable to the extent that I now have an interest in philosophy, something I never would’ve imagined even a few years ago.

[@drewgoodman7932]

You can tell who the billionaire is by who’s wearing the Brook’s running shoes that cost $69.99 and off-the-rack khakis.

[@zachlaprade2852]

This talk inspired me to buy Alex's book and it has completely changed the way I think about energy and the environment. His framework just makes sense. It's also reassuring to know that he gets praise from a great thinker like Peter Thiel.

[@billjones8503]

Listening to Alex over ten yrs ago convinced me fully his reasoned critique on this subject! - p.s. Didn't read his books cus don't have bank set up, & would need much help to set it up-essentially computer illiterate! Old school. lol True.

[@barbarosozturk]

Thanks for sharing this!

[@garbonomics]

fantastic talk as always.

[@gtboard]

Think ECG as CCP 😁👏

[@johanponken]

Great to add "silent movies" text-plates, _and_ a text reader, as so many audience questions in recorded seminars are grossly inaudible.

[@jam199716]

Really interesting conversation

[@DiabeticDawg]

What a brilliant collaboration and group of people sharing ideas

[@stlouisix3]

Brill discussion, lads!!!!

[@OOCASHFLOW]

Thiel is hilarious "we should just get them all in a room together" 😂

[@globalwarming382]

And lock the door and lose the key

[@nickgray]

Great interview and really good quality A/V - listening now while I work

[@johanponken]

Questions & their timestamps: 1:17:48 Alex, I was absolutely captivated by your master class in PR over the last week with the Washington Post attack. What was happening behind the scenes? 1:20:48 Are you working at using the war in Ukraine - and the ludicrous positions we have of not allowing pipelines and export terminals in the United States that could replace Russian gas - to educate people on energy policy? [Note: remember this was in April 2022] 1:22:38 Alex and Peter, don't you think the world would be better served if two great minds like Alex Epstein and Elon Musk engage regularly in public - not necessarily to annihilate each other in a debate, but to speak intelligently about energy and climate in hopes that there's some common ground that could impact energy policy right away? 1:23:26 What are the three biggest manufacturing Industries where you feel the United States should invest its own domestic capabilities over the next 10 years? 1:26:13 As a fellow student of philosophy of science, I find it aggravating the way that science has been co-opted to drive agendas in the last two years with COVID. Now I see it happening in climate science for similar purposes. Is this something new? Do you see it being used even more going forward? 1:32:52 Alex & host.

[@jaimenon]

thanks mate

[@Ryan.G.Spalding]

Am I insane or is Palmer Luckey not there…

[@folechno]

He does show up in a separate interview at the end around 1:32:00

[@user-yl7kl7sl1g]

He uploaded himself into the matrix. He's everywhere.

[@varshneydevansh]

@@user-yl7kl7sl1g hahaha

[@chesstictacs3107]

I didn’t see Palmer Luckey in this video

[@AndyWJP]

I only spotted one boat powered by wind pass by, all the rest diesel powered I guess.

[@anthonymorris5084]

Alex is one of the most objective voices of reason at the podium. His books are must reads.

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@chadabercrombie6860 Did you work on that rebuttal all day?

[@genesmith3582]

Only if you're in the FF industry and trying to memorize talking points.

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@genesmith3582 Epstein doesn't work in the fossil fuel industry and even if he did, you'd have more credibility refuting what he says rather than invalidating the messenger.

[@genesmith3582]

@@anthonymorris5084 Great logic there.... you have to work in the industry to promote or shill for it. JFC.

[@gulanhem9495]

@@genesmith3582 lol you some kind of alarmist on climate and covid? 😂 Probably a sh1tlib.

[@laurenglass4514]

What about no new refining - our refineries can’t refine the oil that comes from fracking the infrastructure and electric grid is badly affected in Texas

[@michaelmiller6878]

Palmer is an American Hero because he decided to invest time in becoming a defense contractor? lol He must now be an expert in cost plus contracts, over billing, waste, inefficiency of production, and wasting of taxpayer money. Worthy of praise!

[@416dl]

That was a great forum...and here it is ten months later and the wheels grind on...some progress is made and the tide is slowly turning making me wonder if Europe is going to wake up from the energy nightmare and untenable geopolitical barrel over which it's placed itself. Thanks Alex...cheers.

[@SophoJoJo]

Amazing event !

[@TheJpwzrd]

13:56 Energy is the base economic unit

[@chuckbirdnz]

I watched the video from New Zealand. Hopefully, we get rid of our communist government soon. Sadly, the main opposition party is not challenging the government or its future coalition partner the Greens. We have one opposition party, Act which is challenging these extremists. Alex has two jobs firstly educate the voters on fossil fuels and secondly help get rid of socialists governments.

[@sterlinglockwood4848]

Oopo

[@Ryan.G.Spalding]

I saw something the other day about the gangs being really bed. Is that real? Not what I imagined New Zealand to be.

[@Pappaous]

Let me ask you, would you vote for him? (Because, he is audititioning.)

[@shaggyrandy1264]

Wow Shelly for Governor ☑️

[@gtboard]

"A sciebtist is jist somebody on welfare"😂

[@petermerchant]

Thiel: 24:20 somehow the concatenation of bad policies has crystallized in the last 6 months where..we're at a very teachable moment.

[@deedetres703]

i agree esp. a certain type in tech leadership roles including Dorsey & CashApp ... get it right guys!

[@hughkwan9681]

what is Chris moderating....

[@laurenglass4514]

Less interventionist the security state will not put up with that

[@pinapplecruize22]

it would take about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States, not "half the country", Peter

[@mandatorial]

26:09 "Devil is not faith" Is that what he said?

[@quentin2578]

yes

[@mandatorial]

@@quentin2578 what was the relevance of the devil in this context?

[@quentin2578]

​@@mandatorialChris brings up the mainstream notion of fossil fuels not only causing negative climate impact but that it is an outright climate apocalypse wherein the world becomes unlivable. This doomsday way of thinking, this doctrine (faith), Alex refers to as devilish; it is not mankind's faith and future. He then talks about how one could instead reason, referring to his framework: the human flourishing framework.

[@Unbedingt0815]

Because many have been wondering: YES. These are regular size chairs.

[@gtboard]

LoL theyre not😂

[@harrison6082]

39:15

[@donaldclifford5763]

Nice place. What's the venue?

[@playertwo9895]

Palmer Luckey's house

[@soldbyToosdae]

I heard somehting negative about steak.. for that reason, I'm out

[@jonathankey6444]

Chris Williamson wasn’t in the title??

[@198227tahiti]

He is the host and is mentioned in the video description.

[@jonathankey6444]

@@198227tahiti I’m aware

[@edwardriffle29]

Michael Mann had a catastrophic thinking failure. Does he actually think?

[@douglasstone3813]

Petroleum is Abiogenic.

[@krimdelko]

Energy is crucial. But it doesn't have to be based on fossil fuels. We can do better. New technologies can solve the problem of too much carbon without sacrificing human flourishing.

[@wmdavidhamilton]

Alex...I imagine you embrace the Gaia Hypothesis....

[@basiledelagasconniere800]

« Most of global warming happens in cold places of the world were people definitely wanted warm » - is that a real argument to discard global warming seriousness ??

[@El_Diablo_12]

1:42:20 probably could’ve made more money and had more fun making video games lol

[@domwyatt3239]

I've never heard so much unintelligent conversation by people who ought to try and make the right thing work (green transition), rather than complain about trivial matters such as 'wind turbines don't look nice', and 'theres no way non fossil fuels can supply energy for everyone' Like come on!! Who's paying these guys? LOL

[@din11235]

Please stop vilifying yoga and meditation. ThX

[@maciejbaranski6737]

I have yet to read Fossil Future, but recently finished Vaclav Smil's How the World Really Works and completely agree that even if we were to try to abandon fossil fuels, we can't. Without a total loss of the current standard of living in the West and the ability to develop the Global South. The screaming of Greta and Al is futile.

[@lawrencefrost9063]

18:30 I'm not sure how it's possible that Peter Thiel, Elon Musk's good friend makes this point, considering Elon has talked about this EXTENSIVELY. You don't need to have "half the country" littered with solar panels. Elon has often made this point; you need a very little area to produce enough for the entire world.

[@billjones8503]

Peter, I have a bone ti pick with you: Why do you ban people with divergent views from using PayPal? You provide a service of transferring money. Not deciding on who's views you don't like. Of course if advocating violence or real hate speech that's another story, but one must be careful not to lump people with reasoned views into that & shut them off from transacting money. Just sayin... Maybe time to rethink criteria? ~ Other than that enjoyed vy much this crucial intellectual chat!

[@StanSensei]

Even though I love Peter Thiel, I found this Alex Epstein talk pretty weak and I don't even support the environmentalist or progressives movements. Alex understanding of consequences and cost/benefit is very limited. The example he gave of how oil's positive impact on agriculture isn't being considered didn't reflect the fact that industrial monocultural farming isn't sustainable at all and American soils are nearly depleted of NO2, microbes, nutrients and that this is the main reason why increasing amount of chemicals, fertilizers and more are needed. Regenerative agriculture is a much stronger and more sustainable framework for growing highly nutritious foods for the masses and it doesn't require even one tenth of the oil that's currently being involved in that industry. The most common mistake smart people do is to try to optimize things that need to eliminated. In his OxfordUnion talk, Peter Thiel said that most businesses might be a racket and that no one know what they are doing. If this is truly the case then why do we need more energy to power more of that nonsense. We should be thinking about deleting businesses and freeing up energy instead. I am all for human agency and would love to see innovation in bioengineering, physics, space exploration etc. I would even welcome more energy, just not for a dumb reason.

[@sirus312]

Bruh I ain't reading that

[@spol]

@@sirus312 Why do you think that is anyone's business?

[@sirus312]

@@spol because we are in an AI era, I want 2-3 word answers

[@GettingGood]

​@@sirus312 that'll be the only depth of life you'll live.

[@JohnSmith-xq6cv]

There is no alternative to our current farming method

[@fbwthe6]

Man I really want to listen to this but Peter’s stammering is killing my ability to focus

[@mirinlatzbrah]

That sounds like a you problem

[@toms641]

YIKES! Did anybody look at this before uploading?? @5:56 "an example of this is agriculture take one of the lead thinkers in our society on this issue Michael Mann the climate scientists and activist he has a whole book on climate and he talks about agriculture which is a crucial area but when he talks about agriculture he only talks about how Rising CO2 might impact agriculture negatively and that's a fine thing to talk about." Hey, you don't need a PHd in Botany to straighten that mess out. Photosynthetic plants are 180% degrees opposite of animals (and people) Animals (people) breathe in oxygen, breathe out CO2. Plants do the reverse. Super elegant. Greenhouse growers know this, and often juice their plants by adding CO2. The whopper at 5:56 is a huge turnoff.

[@wheel-man5319]

I think you need to listen again. Alex immediately says that is a bad assumption on the part of Mann. However, Mann is on CNN/ MSNBC as a celebrity, and never had his past bad predictions questioned. Of course more CO2 is good for plants. A warmer temperate zone is a very good thing for 99%+ of all life on earth. It's much easier to make your living in a warm world than in a cold 🥶 one!

[@johanponken]

Turnoff?

[@emrico]

Starting to think Thiel has ran out of things to say. Every year he does a new monologue a dozen times about increasingly pointless subjects.

[@goodnatureart]

How much did you have to pay people to sit in those chairs? Richy Rich Peter Thiel is so wounded by his hoarding...get help.

[@BenSock]

decentralized "free" energy is real, do you not recognize it because it can't make "money", it can liberate all

[@anthonymorris5084]

How will it be free? What can replace fossil fuels?

[@BenSock]

@@anthonymorris5084 Free is a term used for universal abundant energy. Joe Cells are an example, hydrogen and water batteries, magnetic motors, ether devices etc.

[@penciljazz]

These guys don't have a clear understanding of environmental science and the current and projected conditions of the environment of Earth. They are objecting to an emotional political position with vague financial and political philosophies. In fact, neither of them are very bright or articulate.

[@Unforseenak]

billionaire clowns