How Los Angeles Rejected the Monorail

[@brianp6965]

49:44 - "Developing transit on this scale would be a massive challenge even in the best conditions." You know, the saddest thing about that statement is there will never, ever be better conditions than those of California during the post-war boom.

[@peterdibble]

I agree. If there was ever a chance for this idea to work, it would've been at this exact moment in time... and there was still too much working against it.

[@inyobill]

Look at the cost and long-lead of back-developing the light rail system. Still no direct connection from Union Staion to LA International (They're both LAX, so that designation is ambuguous in the context).

[@themoviedealers]

​@@inyobillComing next year. What will you naysayers have to whine about when that's finished?

[@inyobill]

@@themoviedealers you misunderstand what i'm saying. HSR California is a good idea, i only mentioned th draconian pro cess of connecting to air travel.

[@BaileyChap]

Wait, this doesn't have ads?! And it's feature-length! And it's actually really GOOD?! This is amazing!

[@Fonua510]

Couldn’t imagine the Bay Area without Bart. It literally connects, almost, the whole Bay Area and beats time through traffic during rush hours. Thank you BART!

[@fjacks1189]

Bay Area Rapid Transit. Built back in the 70s. Rode it many times.

[@rollercoaster24]

I’ve seen people complain about it and I’m like… have you been to LA

[@MacTechG4]

AY CARAMBA¡!

[@mauisam1]

I remember when it was first built. Sadly BART is long in the tooth today and needs a major overhaul. I rode it a a daily commuter not long ago and it frequently broke down or slowed to a craw at peak hours. As well it needs to be extended south to San Jose and east to either the 5 or the 99.

[@EricBrummer]

@@mauisam1 it has been extended to San Jose in the last decade. And they're getting all new trains. Another major issue is the limited tracks available so they have to do maintenance when the service is shut down instead of just closing specific tracks 1 at a time and keeping service running. This means maintenance is harder and they don't have a 24 hour system.

[@KevinFields777]

This is, quite possibly, one of the best documentaries about the Los Angeles monorail debacle, and on monorail history in general. It seems to me that this was more about the political aspirations of certain men rather than the general public, and in the end their own greed and desire for control doomed themselves and everyone else with it. Perhaps if Alweg had survived for just a few more years, it would have been able to finally push through a successful proposal. But with the death of Dr. Wenner-Gren, and no interest from Disney in expanding beyond their lane (no pun intended), the monorail suffered a great setback for decades.

[@archlinuxrussian]

I've always thought: it'd be quite the experience to take the train (either Amtrak or, one day, HSR) to Anaheim ARTIC station, then hop on Disney's monorail to Disneyland. From what I've seen from Disney, especially with them "letting themselves go" in Florida, I doubt this ever has been possible at all :/

[@xlukas93]

It is incredible to see how LA is trying to fix its transportation problem for almost a CENTURY now, and it all always just end with corruption. I strongly believe that some people in those "public" companies should have end up behind bars. How ridiculous it is, that the city make a special board, the board operates for 20 years and they have literally NO RESULTS at all, all they do is consume tax payers money. And it is literally ALL they do, with 20 years in charge they bring completely nothing as if it never existed. Incredible and no one ended up behind bars for this "successful" mission

[@lucasrem]

Kevin Fields As a kid I was at the German Test track, back then i knew about the oil parties in the US. And why it failed in the US. Cities need to provide mass transportation systems, private parties can operate them. LA is big enough to develop a system themselves!

[@edwardfletcher7790]

The Simpsons did a pretty good episode on them 😂

[@foto21]

If Disney had moved forward, there were plenty of right-wing psychopaths at the oil and rubber companies to stop it one way or another. Disney wasn't one to rock any boats outside of his own fiefdoms, and mass transportation was NOT his alloted slot.

[@metrolibrarian]

Spectacular, best ever work. Seeing so many of the resources we've been digitizing over the past 22 years used to tell this story and illustrate its details is amazing. We would hand you an Emmy if we could. --Metro Library Staff

[@vilefiend9603]

You should display his work to the public

[@sterlinsilver]

I've always loved and will always love monorails. No matter how impractical they may be, they're just so cool. Especially the suspended space age designs of the 1950s

[@qjtvaddict]

They are not impractical ask chongqing and São Paulo

[@NozomuYume]

@@qjtvaddict Straddle-type monorails are incredibly hard to switch -- monorail switches are huge, slow devices. In addition, they work on rubber tires, meaning they're inefficient due to high friction (just like cars). Finally, nobody's managed to build a high-speed monorail (not counting maglev monorails).

[@DZstudios.]

Me too

[@DZstudios.]

@@qjtvaddict we still haven’t finessed the part 2 here🤣

[@young_diogenes]

As a person who lives in Wuppertal, I can only approve that. Our system is 120 years old and is still going as a mass transportation system.

[@BrokebackBob]

One word: superb. For the most part I thought I was watching a public television documentary special, that's how good this video is. It is representative of the very best of KZbin. Bravo!

[@scpatl4now]

Thank you so much for making quality long form content. I like to think I am pretty "transit aware", but I had no idea that this part of LA's history existed. It is a real shame that it took literally 40 years for the region to get any kind of rapid transit built. They had so many chances, and blew all of them.

[@chrisorr8601]

As someone moving to LA very soon, I hope they get their act together in the next few years. My hope is that, with so many 6/8 lane boulevards, it wouldn't actually be that difficult to block off the center two and put in some more semi separated LRT along major throughfares

[@mrmaniac3]

Don't forget the rich history of streetcars LA has, not dissimilar to much of the early established cities in the rest of the country. Tracks paved over for cars.

[@mrmaniac3]

And yes of course I commented before watching so that was already taken into account 🗿

[@chrisorr8601]

@@mrmaniac3 the story of streetcars in the US is a bit sad. But building new LRT lines we need to make sure we aren’t just trying to emulate them, which were effectively electric buses, (modern buses do that job well enough) and instead seek to create something more rapid that can compete with cars for longer journeys

[@mrmaniac3]

@@chrisorr8601 true, the worst aspect of a street running rail vehicle is that it gets stuck in traffic. It can still work if the street level right of way is dedicated to transit and utility usage, allowing buses and utility vehicles maybe, or by making it exclusively for the rail vehicle. But the better option is to grade separate, either the cheaper elevated or more expensive subterranean. Streetcars still have their place, just as monorail and maglev do, but are similarly not ideal in a majority of use cases.

[@DNRY122]

Many thanks for filling in a lot of gaps in the LA transit saga. I'm a native of the San Gabriel Valley, and as a boy rode the Pacific Electric Monrovia-Glendora Line. Much of my knowledge comes from studying the railway history, and these books usually ignore the monorail proposals that never got off the ground (literally and figuratively)

[@lastfire77]

It's a damn shame how little recognition you get for these amazing videos. you really deserve so much

[@Reed81315]

THIS GUY SENDS OUT 100% PREMIUM DANK CONTENT THATS SUPER INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL

[@purplerunner1715]

Another awesome video. There are not many full staffed TV stations or mediahouse that would be able to put something as well done as this together. You have my thanks and respect.

[@ammo2222]

The Production Quality of this Documantary is insane! I think this was the First KZbin Video from an Individual Creator thatci watched during Prime Time.

[@peterdibble]

Thank you!

[@Airbender19]

LA: "The traffic is so bad here OMG, the highways might as well be parking lots." *Proposes monorail* Also LA: "Gross what's that thing that doesn't look like a car or an extra highway lane."

[@Stant123]

To be clear, as a Los Angeles native, the average person has never been opposed to rapid mass transit, regardless of cost or looks. From street cars, to light rail, to subways, elevated rail, or monorails, the average person just hasn't cared which is chosen, so long as one or more is chosen. It's always some skyscraper property owner who throws a few million at elected officials every few years to 'preserve the view' associated with their property so it doesn't lose value, like what was pointed out about the Wilshire business district... Or a wealthy group of people that much the same way, stop a project like South Pasadena did when Interstate 710 was supposed to be built from the LA/LB harbor straight to interstate 210 right through their part of town, linking the harbor to a direct route to out of the state alleviating much of the truck traffic on all of the surrounding interstates that they were and currently still use because the 710 does not connect to the 210, but making that connection would lower their property value and give the general riff raff direct access to their part of town so must stop that... Or like what else was pointed out in this video, the private bus owners with competing service stepping in and squashing it only for themselves to also go out of business because they stopped the very thing that would have alleviated the traffic allowing them to continue to operate at a profit... Or the general mismanagement of larger projects like the California High Speed Rail project. At no point, has the average person from Los Angeles or surrounding areas ever said, "Gross what's that thing that doesn't look like a car or an extra highway lane." Every single one of us simply does not care so long as it does the job of getting people from where they are to where they need to be.

[@whathell6t]

@@Stant123 Except we do care. Monorails don't meet the requirements of Los Angeles Public Transit, especially in the Sepulveda Corridor. They're slow to adapt compared to the heavy rail/subways.

[@thatisamazing912]

@@Stant123 YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!! That interstate through my area.... riff raff scares me :(

[@xr6lad]

@mipmipmipmipmip yes because you want to be on the 3rd floor of anything and have a train go by. Are you 5? They got rid of most of the elevated railways in NYC for a reason.

[@xr6lad]

@@Stant123 actually wrong. No one wants an elevated train built in front of their home or apartment. Stop stroking it.

[@RAS_Squints]

Living in LA I never knew about the monorail project. The story only stopped at why the railcarts went away (the popular theory is Standard Oil and GM undermining them to turn LA into a 'Car City') and that conversation only comes up because when you go to places like Marina del Rey or Little Tokyo, there are random rail tracks that go nowhere that are the remnants of that system. Good to have this new knowledge on LA

[@MarkusArtemis]

Here we go Baby! My Favorite Infrastructure Man talking about stuff I never knew I wanted to know! Love to see it!

[@Gizathecat2]

So glad you got in a “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” reference!

[@DNRY122]

From time to time I have to remind people that "Roger Rabbit" is a work of FICTION. And the GM-Firestone-Standard Oil-et al. backed National City Lines had little to do with Pacific Electric. After 1911, PE was owned by Southern Pacific, and as the years went by SP started divesting "traction properties" (electric railway lines). By the late 1940s, PE was the only one left, and SP management could see no future in local railway passenger service, so they "spun off" the remaining Red Car lines and their bus operations to to Metro Coach, and, according to one report, even helped with the financing.

[@timor64]

This is such an excellent video. It's amazing how 60 years ago the same arguments about transit were going on as today. It is so obvious that all the arguing had one aim, which was to make sure nothing got built

[@sammagictv]

This is seriously one of the best channels on KZbin.

[@stickguyalex]

Lmao L.A had monorail in the palm of their hands 3 times over and literally said "Nah, homie, we're good". Hilarious and mind blowing. Sure it wouldn't have been without it's own problems but at least give it a chance... Good job Peter this was super informative and entertaining!

[@bradleysmall2230]

we could not support mexicans and do a monorail- trump 2024

[@matsv201]

If there is no other option, the sumplest explination is probobly the corect one. Well, lets se if the board membets got really rich of random stock options.

[@bradleysmall2230]

@@matsv201 MY FAMILY LIVEDB WELL for decades off that windfall- thanks la

[@_IMNNO]

As an LA native this documentary is awesome. This deserves to have a 1mil+ views!

[@garryferrington811]

"Hair-brained" is actually "hare-brained." Although hair-brained is pretty funny. You absolutely astounded me with the LA Times article...from 1951! Even then, they knew! Your entire video is excellent. Research, visual materials, writing, sound, really impressive. I can't imagine what would have happened if Walt Disney had laid out a system with Alweg. It probably would have been so amazing that all objections would have melted away.

[@SWExplore]

Maybe not all objections would melt away considering how powerful the oil industry has control by bribing, or lobbying, politicians and others in decision-making roles.

[@deepsleep7822]

As the old saying goes, follow the money. In this case who stood to loose the most money? The oil companies and Detroit.

[@c182SkylaneRG]

Honestly, the photo at 35:50 wouldn't look bad at all with a Disney-style Monorail running down the center median. Heck, given the way that a monorail doesn't block much light, you could even keep the median as green and lush as it appears to be in the picture, and just run the monorail above the tops of the trees, being sure to grow short varieties of palms that won't try to encroach on the right-of-way from below. Otherwise, what would have been so bad about running the monorail BEHIND those buildings? You could even split up the directions if the streets are much narrower, so eastbound is off to one side, and westbound off to the other. It makes changing directions exceptionally difficult, but it provides elevated transit without being visible from the main road. Every time I go to Disney World, I always wonder why that's the only place I get to see such a cool-looking train. :(

[@nekomasteryoutube3232]

Honestly its quite annoying how a lot of transit projects end up much like this in North america. Many cities really need better transit and yet theres so much fighting over what to build and where to build as well as people fighting to stop these plans is so rediculous. Its 2022 and I'm stuck up here in Canada near a major city and I still need a car to get around while the government would rather build highways and expand roads.

[@Sacto1654]

It would require a total rethink of city design, where people lived in more dense environments connected by rail systems. And that doesn't fly (literally) in today's political environment.

[@Physicalchemistry15151]

Depends on the city, Toronto, Montreal, and especially Vancouver are completely walkable without a car. Even in the suburbs. Calgary, Edmonton, not quite. But they make up for it in other things

[@presidentjoethudbrandon7074]

That's because major public transportation costs hundreds of millions to get going and only serve a small number of people (most people don't want to take a bus) and require yearly subsidies to stay operational. Usually a bus transit system is only required to bring in 10% of its operation costs while the other 90% is government funded. It's a money pit.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

Its all about money and politics. North America needs new transit systems. The US and Canadian government knows this. Cities know this States know this Money prevents it Politics prevents it red tape prevents it uneducated population prevents it. You'll never have a new system unless you can prove. It can fix the issue Make money. Doesn't interfere in the automotive industry Doesn't affect sales in the automotive industry Doesn't take money from the automotive and oil industry. That your willing to take some cut backs by companies and similar that would take advantage in hiking prices and material Or just be insanely rich create your own community with a monerail system and show it can be done and have it expand to others.

[@magicalmoonb]

I feel like having transit/bus only lanes, higher public transit consistency, and having every other street open for cars, would greatly improve public transit without having to build anything new. Lets make Cities more people centric less car centric

[@jimfrodsham7938]

I've been on the Wuppertal monorail from end to end. Great and fun experience.

[@jeffbuckles]

1:33 Bravo! That attention to detail is part of what makes these so fun

[@Mattonrouge]

This video, and entire channel, has such a high level of quality it always shocks me when I see the view and sub counts. This channel is one of the few I get seriously excited for. I don’t know how this haven’t blown up yet.

[@peterdibble]

Appreciate it! The channel following has nearly doubled in size this year, so I'm not complaining. :)

[@hamiltonhoover792]

You content is so well done! I never would have guessed i would watch an hour long video on a monorail that never gets built.

[@douglasmorth5661]

The amount of research and time going into this i commendable. An excellent documentary I'll refer to in the future.

[@mrxman581]

Excellent documentary and overall production. Well done. Thanks.

[@DelusionaLCore]

Unbelievably good. As always. Thank You so much for your work!

[@darknativity42]

The algorithm has blessed me today with a channel full of high quality content. Excellent video!

[@douglasboyle6544]

"The Climate [in California] attracts all kinds of schemers and promoters as well as all kinds of suckers for them to work on." Still holds true today, "Hyperloop" anyone?

[@vaiyaktikasolarbeam1906]

lmao

[@edwardmiessner6502]

And they ended up with the most half-baked and hare-brained scheme of all: a half-built grid of freeways and expressways, which have already proven themselves in New York City under Robert Moses to choke themselves into gridlock with traffic!

[@douglasboyle6544]

@@edwardmiessner6502 if you build it they will clog it.

[@onlinefriend3889]

I often wonder if Elon Musk's grandfather was involved in the LA Monorail project

[@GingerKiwiDev]

This documentary has raised the bar for production and research quality on KZbin. @peterdribble I'm so glad I stumbled into your channel!

[@Vanagons4Eva]

Monorail graphic at beginning is awesome!!

[@MrStevesTrains]

New to your documentaries they are excellent and love your choice of bumper music ❤👍🏻

[@stevepuffery8918]

Cool video, great research, great production… I was waiting for this one… Thank You.

[@isbestlizard]

It's pretty amazing to me how high quality documentaries youtubers are making :D

[@Lensman864]

SUPERB!!! EXCELLENT!!! WONDERFUL!!! You are so good at this; fascinating documentaries. The intro of this one is a master-class in how to engage an audience. You rival Ken Burns. Greetings and thanks from England.

[@peterdibble]

Thanks very much!

[@RCAvhstape]

Good documentary, and the period-appropriate jazz soundtrack is appreciated.

[@DelftTrains]

You're so underrated, I share your video's everywhere! Keep it up Peter!

[@adammurphy6845]

Bravo! A wonderful documentary!

[@islanduck]

Another wonderful masterpiece! Thank you Peter!

[@pault5557]

Excellent work! Your writing and music choices are top notch! Speaking of Dallas monorail at the State Fair, have you ever heard of Max Goldblatt? He proposed a monorail for Dallas before we got our light rail system!

[@bobbybrandon584]

This is really well done. And the Redondo Reflex is a wonderfully named newspaper.

[@scj6693]

amazing documentary. i first subscribed to you after you posted your vids about Portland and highway removal, and i have no regrets so far. keep it up! i especially like your visual designs and your music choices.

[@lifesgood9528]

What a great video and so well put together. I especially love the background music along with the vast amount of info in a short time. It is brilliant and probs much harder than I could imagine 😮awesome work!

[@markhenderson4204]

Love your opening scene with the city names and the monorail!

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Los Angeles saw what happened to Springfield, Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook and didn't want it to happen to them next. Plus those things are awfully loud. I don't blame them

[@markvoelker6620]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHWyemOZppt6kK8

[@ok.ok.5735]

I don’t understand why you can’t just build them above the freeway. To free it up a bit.

[@TheRandCrews]

@@ok.ok.5735 bruh I don’t think you got the joke

[@brianpan6453]

I live in North Haverbrook. There never was no monorail!

[@markvoelker6620]

@@brianpan6453 Well … not any more … kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJrbqoOag82lrqc

[@johnopalko5223]

Yet another masterfully done, informative video. Thank you!

[@HighHolyOne]

From my work with the monorail group in Austin Texas, we learned how much engineering there is in light rail, and how little there is in elevated monorail. We're certain this is one of the reasons why engineers are so down on monorail. Consider the Houston light rail that had over 120 pedestrian and vehicle collisions in the first two years of operation, and continues to leach electricity into the ground in the medical center area, accelerating corrosion in rebar in the foundations of the nearby buildings. Houston has had to spend a king's ransom in engineering costs to patch up their system.

[@milokojjones]

Tbh not sure what exactly is ment by less engineering in monorail, because that is not exactly true. If you mean engineering of the track than it could be said that yes. For the most time, it's much less complex than in case of ligh rail since the monorail is elevated, meaning you don't have to account for things like pedestrian or driver safety measures ( mainly in terms of crossings ), but the vehicles themselves are far more complex from engineering point of view than light rail, since they require multiple mechanisms to keep the vehicle on the rail, not to mention that the switches for monorails are far more complex than in case of regular rails. As for pedestrian colisions, that's to be expected when a vehicle runs on the groundlevel, those are gonna happen sometimes, but it's not really something the monorail would be exceptional in, as the same sort of result as in case of monorail can be achieved by separating the rail track from the ground - meaning either placing it above ground ( elevated lines ) or below the ground ( metro - in most cases ). Also, the accelerating corrosion in rebars in the foundations of nearby buildings are problem with poor quality of construction rather than something common for light rail - that's really on Houston and the company that constructed the system, not the technology itself.

[@HighHolyOne]

@@milokojjones Thanks for your response. My comment about far less engineering mostly has to do with buried utilities that must be relocated or bridged at great expense (often not included in the LRT cost because the utilities have to shoulder that bill). Elevated monorail affects VERY few utilities for its very small footprint. There are a variety of monorail designs, each with its own beam/track switching system. Nevertheless, existing switches have been working perfectly for decades. Tracks require a huge amount of maintenance due to damage done from weight, sun baking, wheel sliding, and must be ground down to stay flat. Steel wheels must also be periodically ground, max 4 times when they're then out of tolerance. Here too is where the noise becomes severe; monorail is a quiet woosh, such that Disney has it going through a hotel. Your points are well taken on accidents and the leaching electricity Houston is experiencing, EXCEPT that elevated monorail is grade separated, and will not be encountering cross traffic. Again, a single, sleek beam rather that massive understructure to support heavy (weight) light rail (capacity). (BTW, Salt Lake City had to tear up and rebuild a whole line because they "forgot" about the leaching electricity problem.) That small footprint also means that ground traffic is far less impacted during construction (which can be done at night). Any rail vehicle can derail. Chicago and New York have had "L" cars fall, so the front of the car is on the ground, and the rear is still on the L structure. Monorail and mag-lev are attached to the beam, and cannot derail. I hope you'll respond. I'm happy to discuss these matters since I'll be a traffic/transportation engineer in my next life 😊, and I'm studying now.

[@milokojjones]

​@@HighHolyOne I agree that the monorail has a smaller footprint than elevated railway track, but while that's an advantage, it rarely makes such a big difference to justify building a monorail over just a regular rail. Don't know about utilities, but I would say they are more or less comparable - you still need all the electrical work and track stabilization work for both elevated rail and monorail and you still need to relocate most of the buildings or constructions under the track ( it also depends on the type of the track, some newer ones may be more ''undertrack structure friendly'' than the older types ), but monorail is likely to be better in this. ( Though I'm not a structural or transportation construction engineer, so take my words with a pinch of salt. ) Also as a sidenote - noone in their right mind is gonna build the track in the night, not only because it's much more costly to build since you have to pay extra to the workers ( as nightshifts tend to be paid better ) and having to provinde equipment to pretty much light the place up so you can see on your work, but you are also gonna have to deal with the people who live there and I can tell you one thing and that one thing is, that they are not gonna be happy if you do your constructing at night, since construction work is quite noisy and they want to sleep. They would murder you if you did, don't try it :D As to to switches, they indeed depend on the type of monorail ( and they work ), but the point was, that they are much more complicated than rail switches, which is the case especially for the sort of concrete track monorail design that is often used in the US or Japan. Problem with that is that they are much more prone to issues as well as having much higher maintenance cost ( and maintenance time ). Speaking of track and track maintenance, while it is true that railway track requires quite a bit of maintenance, so does monorail track - weather and just the regular use of the track still means maintenance, that applies to wheels as well - again depending on the type of monorail, you either have rubber wheels ( usually for the concrete track one - which is also why it tends to be more quiet ) or steel wheels, which are very similar to rubber wheels ( for example on the Wuppertal Monorail in Germany ). Now, if we are talking about rubber wheels, they wear rather quickly, faster than steel wheels in the very least and they also have some disadvantages over steel wheels - they have higher roling resistance, which makes them less efficient than steel wheels ( though better at climbing steeper track ). Though this all is not really the main problem with monorails, they can be build and work alright, the main problem is, that they are not very versatile. They require elevated tracks at all time and only monorail vehicles can run on the track. That is a problem, because in most cases, you don't need the whole line to be elevated, just some part - for example one going through a dense city center. Just from that point of view, it is better to build elevated railway track, as you can just run the line through the city without needing to have some sort of transfer station that would separate the line into two halfs or expanding the monorail line to somewhere where there is no need for it and it's cheaper to build regular railway tracks. This already limits the posible situations when monorail could be better than building a regular rail to a very small and specific set of circumstances. But it really gets even worse considering that no other vehicles but monorails can run on the monorail track ( which is logical ), it would not be such a problem if other types of transportation ran on the same type of track, but they don't, they run mostly on regular rails ( and that's how your already existing infrastructure will likely be set up ). Railway tracks for light rail or any rail transportation have the benefit of the vehicles being able to run on the same track. That means that if I need to say get metro ( as the underground train ) from one side of the city to another, I can do so using my light rail track because the metro vehicle can run on these tracks. Similarly, say there was a problem with the water supply system in some area - I can use ( in theory ) a regular railway tank vagon to deliver the water to the affected areas using my light rail track. Similarly, since this is another vehicle type, you would need to build all of the infrastructure for it from the ground up - such as depos and repair shops, as well as get the qualified workers to fix them. With railway vehicles, thanks to their similarities, I can send my tram repair's man to fix my metro, because the vehicles are very similar and they also use lot of the same parts, making them cheaper to maintain. In conclusion, building a monorail is possible, but for the most part impractical. They are not very flexible in use, require their own set of infrastructure and cost quite a lot, delivering similar or worse performance to elevated light rail. They have their limited use where building them makes sence - atleast some, like for consideration, but that use is very limited, which is also why they are not used widely today. Sorry for the wall of text :D

[@stickynorth]

This is THE definitive video on the subject! Well done! It also makes me horribly sad for what could nay should have been! Now L.A. just has a crazy patchwork of lines and technologies that don't work seamlessly and cost too much... Great!

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

"The Enos Electric Railway had been built a year earlier in Greenville, NJ" Greenville was absorbed into Jersey City in 1873, so by this point that the suspended railway was built it's just a district within Jersey City. It makes perfect sense that it was built there. The vast majority of Jersey City residents take public transit, and while the city may not have a suspended railway it does have a big light-rail system that connects to the PATH (rapid transit between NY and NJ) and ferries (the light rail also connects to neighboring Union City, Bayonne, Hoboken, Weehawken, and North Bergen). And the NJ waterfront was once littered with railway terminals which helped boost NJ's economy, now Hoboken Terminal is the last one still in operation, with another former terminal at what is now Liberty State Park being preserved and currently used as the NJ terminus of Statue Cruises People like to talk smack about NJ, but NJ and especially Jersey City are of historical significance (for starters, Hamilton was killed in Weehawken, NJ). Besides the suspended railway, a lot of the revolutionary battles happened in NJ, plus the Continental Army's winter encampment at Jockey Hollow helped them have a stronghold while they waited for the time to strike. While Jersey City was where Jackie Robinson made his professional baseball debut, the birthplace of Martha Stewart, and it is also the origin of Kool & the Gang. NJ, whether you like it or not, is more than just a laughing stock where everything is legal ;)

[@usedcarsokinawa]

You made what I thought would be a boring documentary but it kept my attention. You have a good voice,

[@JackFruh]

Wow Peter, what a great job you did on this - Just as good as anything the big networks or PBS have ever put out.

[@ronaldgibson]

In 1974, Los Angeles had a proposal to have 200 miles of rail lines built by 1985. The voters turned it down.

[@Cyrus992]

Eye Opening

[@michaela.chmieloski3196]

Mr. Dibble, this belongs on the Discovery Channel, History Channel, or some other comparable broadcast company's station. Very, very well done, sir.

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

The Twin Cities metro area of Minneapolis and St.Paul once had the most extensive trolley system in the US which was shut down in the 1950’s and replaced with a bus system. Slowly since the late 1990’s a very expensive light rail system again was restarted. The 3rd spoke of it is being built to the southwest of Minneapolis down to Eden Prarie and it’s ran into huge cost overruns which now has people calling for an audit. If only they had kept the old system running and rebuilt it and improved it in the decades since.

[@ausbrum]

I think you will find that most cities had transport surveys by De Liew Cather, which was a subsidiary of General Motors --which had a bus division.Sydney had a very extensive tram system. Although, one positive in it's elimination was that the harbour side depot became the site of of the Sydney Opera House

[@truedarklander]

Converting old times trolleys to trams ("light rail") is literally one of the ways to modernize trolley systems.

[@xr6lad]

@@ausbrum Sydney has narrow crooked streets. As the city expanded its teams were going to become less and less useful.

[@warmstrong5612]

Monorails always made more sense to me when depicted in sci-fi as a method of traveling between moonbases.

[@plushiie_]

So many great philosophies and ideas coming from the US back then, but so little followthrough due to lobbying, and the lack of short-term profits.

[@Gnefitisis]

Hmmm… Boomers haven’t changed… time for some shit to finally get done.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

It hasn't changed and won't change anytime soon.

[@sernajrlouis]

Awesome video. I don't know if I have seen it before and commented. But watched it and loved it. Lol

[@justinkudolla98]

What a wonderful film! Thank you for doing this. It sure makes you think!

[@JourneysADRIFT]

My favorite up and coming KZbinr

[@evensgrey]

On the technical side, switching is kind of a hassle for monorail systems. It's not too bad on suspended car systems, but then you have to put up with the fact the car is going to sway a lot in a high-speed system. On the types where the car straddles the rail from above, you have to redirect the entire rail, which means a really heavy switching system, which tends to be both slow to actuate and very expensive to build. (The fastest I've seen claimed for switching is 12 seconds, using a system of beam segments on rollers. The other alternative for beam-straddlers is a turntable that can take the entire train at once. This means either a monstrously huge turntable, or rather small trains. Short trains isn't really that much of a problem, because the nature of mass transit means you have to keep your trains no longer than the shortest platform they service anyway. The issue is how quickly can what must be a very, very strong and heavy turntable switch the trains. In the subways I've familiar with, you can have a train as quickly as once every 90 seconds.)

[@minnesotarailfan12]

“There was just one problem” FRUITY FUN FROOT LOOPS!!!!! Best ad placement ever.

[@filipbujaroski9221]

Incredible work. Thank you so much

[@pocki892]

This was the most exiting and yet most depressing hour of my life...

[@troodon1096]

I've never felt so weirdly sad about the death of an idea that never really got to live.

[@timothyokane9710]

You should do a documentary study on Seattle Light-Rail their were proposals for extending Monorail services but that was rejected much like at Los Angeles.

[@peterdibble]

I actually ended up researching much of that story in parallel with this project. It's gonna be on the backburner for a while, but I definitely want to come back around to it at some point.

[@modelrailpreservation]

This is an excellent video. The intro with the animated Monorail was very nicely done and the information presented was done quite well. I would love to see a video about the long gone Mt. Lowe line. I've read about it, and am fascinated with the concept.

[@oldfriend327]

I have live in Los Angeles all *48 YEARS OF MY LIFE.* As God as witness, even with all of the negatives of a monorail, the benefits would vastly outweigh the system we have now AND mitigate the soul crushing traffic on BOTH freeways and streets. Look at MTA Los Angeles now. They cannot even hire enough drivers. Why? Ask any driver as I have asked many times, they will tell you LACK OF SECURITY is an issue all day everyday. A bus operator cannot be expected to be both the driver and security guard. The violent crime on the system is mind boggling. I have been attacked and attempted robbed several times. There has been MURDERS AND RAPES on the system. We have not even talked about "service" wait times/bus and rail car frequency yet and "Express Routes" between the San Fernando Valley, San Gabriel Valley, and metro Los Angeles areas. MTA conducted a "Next Gen" study that in part wanted to hear suggestions from the public about how to improve public transit. After all was said and done with that study, service became WORSE. Mayor Garcetti continues to find an infinite variety of excuses....including "lack of funds" yet has allowed the cost of homeless housing to exponentially increase to $800,000 for a single person homeless housing unit. MTA removed Lines 788 and 750. If you use the buses in Los Angeles and especially between the San Fernando Valley you know how critical just those two bus lines are and for what reasons. How much longer does Los Angeles have to be headquarters of governmental disappointments? You cannot continue to blame the "white patriarchy" and "corporations" forever when the City and County continue to steer the population into mind boggling directions that consistently result in absolute misery.

[@MisterVercetti]

There's a point where the blame has to be placed squarely on the shoulders of the voters. If you keep electing the same incompetent, corrupt politicians into office because you're "unsure" or "scared" of the opposition, then you deserve to be continually handed disappointment and failure year in and year out. Stop being complacent and lazy and start taking your livelihood back into your own hands.

[@tski3458]

Outstanding documentary. Thank you. Born and raised in the valley. None of those lines proposed would have help my area. Northridge. Many years back into the sixties and seventys sitting behind a stinking bus, a monorail system would have been cool, but i doubt it would helped. Maybe my dad. Worked at Lockheed in burbank.

[@Jolar70]

After my snarky comment about the MTA logo (it's horrible), I just want to say, excellent work on this! Beautifully researched and, even the positive questions you pose right up to the end, are really good pivots. And also very entertaining; that lounge music sweeping us through the whole history! Thanks for all your work. It was a lovely Saturday morning viewing!

[@peterdibble]

Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@Retroscoop]

I once wrote an article about the Schwebebahn in Wuppertal. The starting point were some intriguing postcards of the nicest, Art Nouveau / Jugendstill style stations. It is indeed a very safe way of transport, but there are two points that have to be mentioned. 1) maintaining the infrastructure is not cheap, and something like maintaining the Eiffeltower, to avoid rust etc. 2) the infrastructure has quite an impact on the general view of the town. It's quite an invasive infrastructure. People who once bought a house near the Wupper to enjoy the view of the river, all of a sudden saw those monstruous metal infrastructure being build over the river, and spoiling the bucolic view. I have no idea whether it was a very noisy experience on top of that. Fact is, it remains a project that hasn't been copied in tens, hundreds... other towns... But it certainly has its merits too, and was an innovative way of tackling growing transportation problems in growing towns. In San Francisco, the interesting "BART"-network was introduced in the 1970's.

[@DDELE7]

Can you imagine if Alweg built their monorail system in L.A.? It would have reached every corner of the Valley by now. It would have been revolutionary.

[@bkark0935]

Sure, but imagine the exorbitant costs in maintenance, replacement and upkeep? The damage from the smog and acid rain? I love the idea of the monorail, but so many more advanced technologies and improvements have been developed for both light & heavy standard rail!

[@DDELE7]

@@bkark0935 Monorails are not necessarily more expensive to maintain than a traditional rail system. Nearly all straddle beam Monorails use a concrete or steel beam (the track) that the train with rubber tires sits on. Maglev based monorails like the Transrapid in Shanghai uses a linear motor with electromagnetic propulsion. They might cost more for initial construction but theoretically maintenance costs are lower due to fewer moving parts. And since most Monorail systems are outdoors and elevated means you’re not spending money on tunneling or relocating utilities. I dare say they could have built an entire 100 mile Monorail system for the same cost of the initial Metro Red Line Subway with change to spare. Let’s just be thankful the voters of L.A. today are expanding the Metro Light Rail system and trying to correct the damage done when they ended its predecessors the Yellow Car trolleys and Pacific Electric Red Car services.

[@nonic4vic600]

@@bkark0935 I’m pretty sure the people using it would’ve payed for that

[@Azivegu]

Now that is a disaster story. I do love monorails, but am no fan. But when the MTA was given so many chances to actually achieve a success, the seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot. Shame for LA. A comprehensive mass transit network (and it could have gone farther than just linking everything to the downtown) is something LA desperately needs.

[@themoviedealers]

We have it. We now have the third largest urban rail system in North America.

[@AlexCab_49]

@@themoviedealers But compared to MTA, LA metro still isn't as convenient as it should be and unfortunately the lower population density and sprawl makes this hard.

[@thejadedmessiah]

@@themoviedealers it’s amazing that it’s the third largest and yet half the Angelenos I talk to don’t even know it exists. Let alone have ridden it.

[@glennhavinoviski8128]

@@thejadedmessiah LA's too damn big and without good first mile/last mile connections, the rail system benefits those who live close to it. Until there is stronger transit-oriented development, ridership will not grow. And with the pandemic and many people working from home, there is less need to even commute anymore. There needs to be a much stronger focus on addressing the needs of people who are transit dependent (including workers who can't do their job from home) and don't have other options, not trying to compete with freeways.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

@@themoviedealers Problem with Los Angeles needs multiple transit systems. Yes the Rail system is exactly what the city needs but it needs others to allow it to have alternate transportation as well. The Monorail system can still be a alternative especially now in a era where most people can't even afford a starting car.

[@bobbaranickstreehouse8848]

Nice story Peter. This experience was one of the most frustrating outcomes for Walt. It was also good to see the Seattle Century 21 World's Fair too. A great memory for me! Thank you for publishing this episode. Bob

[@scottanderson9656]

As someone who lives in LA I have to say this is a great documentary and brings to light problems that sill exist over half a century later. This city and state would rather have committees and panels than actually move things forward and start to address some of the obvious problems.

[@interstellarphred]

This is not unique to your area, It is called the permanent planning culture, where advanced degree graduates make a career of producing reports and attending meetings.

[@scottanderson9656]

@@interstellarphred Sadly I think you're right. I've lived abroad a couple of times and they just kept expanding and improving their infrastructure with no fan fare etc. where as here they talk and talk about it and nothing gets done. It's almost like they think it will be free if they put it off. I wonder if people get paid extra to sit on these committees.

[@eumoria]

This was incredibly good! I didn't know much about the topic but, man, did they really blow it. Great work as always!

[@magiciangob]

Although I will miss the focus on local Oregon content, I am really happy to see you expanding out of the region and I really hope this will increase your visibility. As always your documentaries are outstanding in every way, I really enjoyed this and learned a good deal. Can't wait until you blow up, you'll be at 100k overnight.

[@peterdibble]

Thanks a lot! 😊 Don't worry, there's still many stories from Oregon history that I plan to cover here (including my next project).

[@OrdinaryLatvian]

It's always great when you upload. Can't wait to watch this one!

[@Colin.Smith.Pianist]

The Hawaii 5-0 knockoff theme at the beginning was lit hahaha

[@oneletterz1659]

You make the best history videos. Thank you.

[@dandywaysofliving]

Im not fully here but i am fully invested in this topic. i will rewatch. but thank u for this. this means so much to me and i thank u for your effort

[@chromebomb]

this was a fantastic history of LA transit, really one of the best if not ever on YT. great job

[@RonPiggott]

This was a fascinating video and well done.

[@Panzermeister36]

Another extremely professional and educational video! Thank you for making these :)

[@PhiPsi68]

This was a well done feature

[@noahwren7739]

Nice work on the videos.

[@rayronvr]

Amazing how history is repeating itself in cali with the highspeed train we see today.

[@jarabaa]

Great video, brilliant. So informative, clear, - admirably elucidating. Only one momentary horror: "dozens of communities sprUng up ... " Somewhere along the line good old "sprang" got abolished, along with the red trolleys, but no one told me.

[@larrybruce4856]

I often wondered, why Portland Oregon didn't build a Monorail on I-84 instead of light rail. With light rail construction, at least 12 overpasses had to be destroyed and rebuilt to accommodate tracks and overhead power, while a Monorail could have been elevated off to one side or down the center of I-84.

[@EricBrummer]

This video doesn't discuss negatives of monorails. If you look at trains, heavy or light rail alone without monorails, having different equipment drives large long term costs. BART in SF was designed with non-standard rail and wheel design. This makes those trains louder and it means they have to do custom orders with manufacturers of train cars. Now look at other light rail systems. Numerous cities have almost identical trains ordered from Siemens and other major light rail manufacturers. In fact, sometimes due to the nature of government funding, a city will order X number of trains, but then will sell a couple of the trains from their build to another city in need of trains on a quicker time scale. Or a smaller city might buy older gens of another cities trains that is upgrading. The short version of all that is re-usability and interoperability. Monorails, while really cool, use tires. (At least the Disneyland style ones.) Overtime, the maintenance costs get far worst versus rail systems. They also have worse friction then trains on rails requiring more energy. There's a reason why trains have developed as they have over the last couple hundred years and are dominant today.

[@TamDNB]

Just found this channel... production value is on point

[@stevengamsby5344]

Thank you for your videos I just started watching them very well done I’ve learned a lot from your videos and I thank you retired US Army Sargent Major Gamsby

[@billolsen4360]

Springfield accepted a monorail proposal and looked what happened to them, as well as to Ogdenville and North Haverbrook.

[@n0lanv0id]

A new Peter Dibble infrastructure documentary?? And it's an hour long! YES!!!

[@ilajoie3]

Cloverleaf Industries did some intensive lobbying behind the scenes against the monorail

[@ChrisBrown-pu8sm]

All I will write is thank you for telling the truth. It's been missing but please know some of us do appreciate honesty. It's a form of responsibility. Again thanks.

[@STFOX543]

A monorail would've absolutely transformed Los Angeles' economy in the same way it did for Brockway, North Haverbrook and Ogdenville.

[@xr6lad]

@@foto21 are you being a twt. What left wingers don’t like cars? What a knb! By the way without oil you die. Is that any simpler for your brain?

[@visualonestudio]

20 years before I existed, Los Angeles (my county) formally discussed creating reliable public transportation. When I born, nothing existed. 40 years later. Still nothing.

[@banticmusic]

The intro though🔥🔥 , its like a 70s, 80s cable tv movie