How To Defend Against Weird Bidding Systems

[@almightyhydra]

general principle: the stronger their bid, the weaker yours is. A classic example is: if they open 2C GF, your 3S is a pre-empt; whereas if they open 2H weak (of some flavour), your 3S is a strong single-suited hand. Over the strong 1C I like to bid one level higher than usual (then get doubled and go for 500 :)) X = MM and 1NT = mm works well. If they open a 2-level bid showing a weak hand and only 4+ in a particular suit, allow your side to still bid that suit naturally, at least in the direct seat, with a very good 5+ or good 6+ suit. This helps to avoid them picking off your major-suit games. if instead the opening shows 5+ cards, don't bother with that and revert to Michaels / stopper-asking / whatever you would normally play.

[@EriksV99]

If precision 1D opener being 1+ diamonds freaks you out, in Estonia it's really popular for precision 1D opening being 0+ diamonds - the difference is that with 5 clubs and 4 major (including 5 clubs and 4/4 in majors - that's where possibility of void diamond comes from) and bad club suit you open 1D rather than precision 2C. Not that big of an difference, but 1D from void still sounds freaky. :D

[@mymyscellany]

We play that in first/second 1C shows 0+ clubs and no 5 card major, 11-15. And in third/fourth, 1D shows 0+ diamonds and no 5 card major, 11-15. People sometimes freak out over it, when really just bidding naturally works perfectly fine.

[@andriyu]

@@mymyscellany does that mean you play strong 1D in 1st/2nd seat but strong 1C in 3rd/4th seat? What’s the theory behind that?

[@mymyscellany]

@@andriyu well part of reasoning for playing strong diamond at all, at least our version of it, has to do with what I see as bad 2m openings in standard precision. Precision 2C, especially the modern version showing 6+ clubs, and precision 2D showing short diamonds, are both just very infrequent openings. I think they're each about 1.5% frequency each. These just aren't that useful openings. They're tack ons to make the precision 1d opening more doable to bid over. The other part of the reasoning for playing strong diamond is to have better auctions over the nebulous minor. Over Precision 1D, there's no great way to relay. Over Strong Diamond 1C, 1C - 1D can be an artificial game force, which is super elegant, and you can get opener's exact shape. All the reasons of why strong diamond are good don't really apply in third seat. We don't need 1C - 1D as an artificial game force, since a passed hand is never going to game force. We don't need constructive auctions over the nebulous 1m, so we can just stick everything in 1D and be done with it.

[@jyutzler]

Time is the enemy here. 1. timed games. It can take forever to get reasonable explanations and part of the judgment is whether it is really worth the clock time to ask everything. 2. doubles of artificial bids. Unless you have a lot of time to hash these out with partner, simplify, simplify, and simplify some more. It's not even close to perfect but I would just agree that doubles of artificial bids are lead-directing and bids of shown suits are takeout. Having any agreement you can remember is far better than doing nothing or having the possibility of getting things confused.

[@willinnewhaven3285]

I remember when Precision first became popular, people who played this would say "We _welcome_ competition." This was not true.

[@TheMiningProbe]

Your should make a video on how to defend against system mc systemface, that plagues every club around!

[@BridgeWithPete]

Hahahaha

[@philbarker8219]

What about the Polish 1C - 'unusual' 11-21 any shape ?

[@mymyscellany]

Polish club definitely isn't 11-21 any shape. Usually it shows something like 11-14 balanced 16/17+ with unbalanced clubs any 18+ pointer

[@BridgeWithPete]

I like to just treat 1C as natural and bid the same. They will expose their hand if it isn't.

[@chrishasney2468]

Very nice, thankjs Pete!

[@mymyscellany]

I think one important thing about playing against weird bidding systems is putting yourself in situations where you'll be exposed to them more often. The average club player in the ACBL fundamentally distrusts anything that's not SAYC or 2/1- you need to realize people bidding weird bidding systems are usually trying to solve the same problems, just in a different way.

[@jyutzler]

It's not fundamental distrust, it is finding someone to partner with. I developed a strong diamond system that I think is pretty sound but it's not like people are lining up to try these things.

[@mymyscellany]

@@jyutzler tell me about it. I also play strong diamond.

[@jyutzler]

@@mymyscellany ​ 1D is 18+ with an array of artificial responses. Elsewhere 5-card majors, 15-17 1NT, transfer responses over 1C, Flannery-like 2C, and 2D is natural like precision 2C. Yours?

[@mymyscellany]

Why flannery 2C? 1D shows 16+ with relay responses. 1M 5+ 12-15 HCP or rule of 20. 1NT 10-12 NV/13-15 V 1C is 11-15 no 5 card major. The balanced range is the compliment of the no trump range. 1C - 1D is an artificial game force The 2 level across the board shows 5 or 6 cards I the suit, 8-11 HCP, and no side 4 card major 2NT is weak with 5-5+ in the majors. In third/fourth, we play strong club, and a lot of the structure is different.

[@jyutzler]

@@mymyscellany Sorry, I'm not going to get to the theory in a YT comment. It is far too complicated a topic.

[@janvdplaat3067]

Look at their system card helps more than talking about whatever you might do. .

[@philbarker8219]

In the case of 1NT - 2D (starting at 14:30) with my partner, the X would say.. he took my bid, I have 5 hearts !

[@andriyu]

This is a popular method for newer players because it’s easy to remember, but it’s not as popular with experts because it takes away the ability to show a medium responding hand/negative double or to try to penalize the opponents. You’re still able to use all your methods over partner’s 1NT opening bid with the “stolen bid double” agreement except you can’t show any of the hands that would respond to 1NT with any of the bids below the opponent’s overcall. There are also new hand types that you might want to show, like 6 HCP with 4=4=1=4 or similar shape which wants to compete over the opponents’ 2D bid with a negative double.

[@gerryarty8342]

GREAT :)