440 Chrysler Mopar Engine Building Part 2 - Studs vs Bolts and Installing the Crankshaft

[@stevejanka361]

Wow, very sanitary environment Pete, better than hospital clean. And a great physics lesson on load distribution. It's already a good Monday, early in the morning. Thanks and take care.

[@PetesGarage]

I like to work very clean. It helps me sleep at night....lol. I'm happy to make your Monday a good one.

[@billking8235]

The main purpose of using studs is that the torque is distributed between two different sets of threads. Thus allowing torque to be divided 1/2 to each of threaded stud. Versus all of the torque to threads in the block. Love these vids, great work!!

[@PetesGarage]

Torque is simply resistance to rotation. A stud allows the fastener to be in straight tension rather than would up like a bolt.

[@TheRoguelement]

I couldn't help but notice the outrageous amount of factory casting flash from end to end that you didn't even mention let alone bring up ??????? Wow the BOSS dude ,,

[@PetesGarage]

I'll make sure to title that video "Removing Casting flash"

[@mundrubjet]

A very good friend of mine and his sister, both doctors... my friend has great respect for my mechanical abilities, his sister told him, "Don't bother in high school with Vo Ag and shop" She felt we were beneath her high minded platitudes... We're just grunts that dig ditches. I showed her the science behind the mechanical advantage of studs over bolts as clearly defined in this video. They were bulky lumps of metal at the start of the conversation, but when she saw the science behind the two, the light bulb over her head turned on and she said, "Wow!! That's really smart!! I had no idea..." I said, "Not bad, for a ditch digger, huh??" Ol Sarge...

[@PetesGarage]

That's a hard way to learn

[@danielkuchenberg7046]

I've been building engines since 1965 and one of the first things I was taught was to never rotate the crankshaft without the caps being torqued, it can cause the bearing shells to rotate slightly causing the shell to be crushed on one end leading a spun bearing.

[@PetesGarage]

That can be true, you just have to make sure the bearing is rotated correctly before putting on the caps. Things have changed since 1965

[@TheMotownhustler]

Is it just me that enjoy watching engine surgery. 👍🏾😎

[@PetesGarage]

It's fun to watch for sure

[@Barnekkid]

Excellent!

[@jmcenterprises9591]

Great work, learning with each video, thanks Pete

[@PetesGarage]

Awesome! Thanks my friend

[@Travelingman-1980]

Love your engine building vids Pete.

[@PetesGarage]

Thank you my friend

[@supreme2544]

Great video, thanks Pete 👍🏻

[@PetesGarage]

You got it my friend

[@Mr39036ce]

good vid. I purchased some vinyl caps at a parts store used to plug holes in whatever er you need that worked well to protect the crank when placed on the stud ends. A dozen was only three bucks. A good solution if you are in a pi ch is a couple of wraps of black electrical tape. Be sure to use enough to protect the journals if you are hung over or just a shakey dude in general.

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks for the suggestion

[@brettb.7425]

The other reason that studs yield a better torque reading is because a bolt is twisting down to the threads where as a stud’s twisting is done at the the top with the nut. Therefore, with a bolt, you are relying on the bolt not twisting to give an accurate torque reading. Good video!

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks for the comment Brett

[@JB-xg7io]

I'm wondering about that orange soft-blow mallet. It looks very cruddy and when you whack the bearing caps, couldn't crud that's embedded in the mallet surface be knocked loose and stick to the oily surfaces? Maybe not a big deal but when you're taking great care to keep things clean, would that also be something to be mindful of? Just wondering. Thanks for the great videos!

[@PetesGarage]

That is a great observation, you are absolutely correct

[@robertlevine8243]

Excellent video thanks Pete

[@PetesGarage]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@whelk]

Do you measure your bearing clearances or just trust the machine shop? When you send the block to the machine shop do you have the studs or bolts for the mains already installed? The main caps torqued down or loose, or separate?

[@patw52pb1]

Trust but always verify. We always measure each journal with a tenths micrometer and each installed bearing shell bore with a tenths dial bore gauge to determine the clearance. Bolts vs studs usually does not matter for most machine shop operations unless the machine shop is performing final assembly. We send the block with caps, bolts or studs+nuts+washers and when applicable the crank to the machine shop. Usually the main cap fasteners are tightened but not necessarily torqued to spec when sending to the machine shop.

[@PetesGarage]

I completely trust the machine shop. They check thrust, main, and rod clearances when they bolt on the torque plate for boring and line honing. They also have to put the studs in and bolt it down to check.

[@markoeberhardt3132]

quality content again! thanks pete

[@PetesGarage]

Thank you my friend

[@patw52pb1]

Another pro for studs is increased preload/clamping force for most applications.

[@PetesGarage]

That is true, I sort of included that in the even load distribution comment, but I guess it didn't come out that way.

[@samthemultimediaman]

did you using any thread lock on the studs on the block side?

[@PetesGarage]

No, it's not needed.

[@samthemultimediaman]

oh okay, thanks!

[@ekoast]

Pete, what did you use to pull on the crank to check the end play? That part is out of frame. It would seem that a pry bar would do damage.

[@PetesGarage]

I just did a detailed video on that. Setting crank end play kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH21aXyIhKqgjqc

[@ekoast]

Thank you! Your videos are awesome. I probably wouldn't attempt my build without references like this. Please keep it up!

[@AustrianAnarchy]

Thanks Pete! What were you shoving the crank back and forth with?

[@PetesGarage]

Just a screwdriver to move it each direction.

[@jeffreymarshall6761]

Thanks for the info

[@PetesGarage]

No problem 👍

[@dodgeking9194]

@@PetesGarage I have a late 70's 440 short block that I bought from a retired mopar parts guy Its never been assembled or run. Even still has the tags on it from when it was new. It sat around for a long time and got all surface rust on it. I took it apart its got a cast crank, and LA rods and some kind of flat top pistons I want to rebuild it for my Charger and I want to install a forged or 6 pack crank Does the block need to be line bored to change a crank?

[@dodgeking9194]

@@PetesGarage I have a NOS late 70's 440 short block with a cast crank that has never been assembled or run before. I want to change to either a 6 pack crank or some forged crank that would be an OEM replacement Does the block need to be line bored to change the crank?

[@roncooke2188]

Great Artwork 😷

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks Ron

[@perverso12345]

Great KZbin channel, keep up the good work

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks my friend

[@jonathanbosco8458]

Excellent video as always, As a novice mechanic great explanation of Stud vs Bolt. Hope you did not give up on your PHD

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks Jonathan....I have not given up

[@manishgurav3783]

Nice explain

[@PetesGarage]

Thank you

[@ralphvalkenhoff2887]

Hey Pete, Another great video. Thank you. how do you feel about, after torquing the main caps, backing off the thrust bearing cap and then tapping the crank, back and forth a few times then retighten the thrust cap and then measure play? Are you following me?

[@PetesGarage]

I understand what you are saying, but the caps need to be torqued in sequence. If you loosen the thrust bearing you'll have to loosen them all and stat again. Personally I don't see the benefit. The crank should be nice and smooth with doing that.

[@ຕ້າແກ້ວດວງສີ]

ขอถามเน

[@knight0334]

I got lucky back in the early 1990's when I built my 440 to 500 stroker. I used a '78 block that was in excellent shape. Decks and mains were true. When I had the machine shop sonic test it for cylinder wall thickness it was discovered that they were a bit thicker than normal. I could have gone to over .100 over, but I chose .060 over because that size was a standard production, and it left me with room just in case I needed a rebuild years later. The shop was quite puzzled because they never saw any Mopar block made after the early 1960's with such thick walls. I had to do a bit more clearing for the stroker because I used fatter H rods.

[@PetesGarage]

That's interesting, thanks for sharing

[@ninjapumkin]

Just started watching this series. Starting a 400 B for my 64 Polara. Question on my 400. Bought as a short block but was rebuilt professionally 10 years ago. The whole block is clean and has always been stored in a dry place. Internally upon inspection so far it is clean with no signs of rust or debris. Still is oily through out. Should I do this as a fresh rebuild? Take apart and relubricate everything? Crank turns nice and smooth.

[@PetesGarage]

It would be worth having a look at the bearings

[@Thundarr995]

When you use ARP studs or main cap bolts the recommend that you should get the block align bored/ honed. Also don't go by what the repair manual says as far as torquing the bolts/ studs down. Follow the instructions that came with the ARP main studs/bolts. They usually say not to torque them down to the factory specs. They're stronger,so they don't stretch as much. If you torque them down to factory specs,you over torqued them. This can cause a slight distortion in the main cap and wipe out the main bearings. I made that mistake on the first engine I built. Same thing with ARP rod bolts. Better get the connecting rods resized using the ARP hardware. When I made that mistake I was about 20 and I really didn't think it mattered much. After about 5k miles I was ripping that engine out and taking it down to the machine shop. Rods and main bearings were trashed because I didn't follow the instructions and get the block align honed with the ARP main bolts and the rods needed to be resized with the ARP bolts. Some of the rod bearings were wearing badly because I didn't get the rods resized with the ARP bolts. This guy didn't mention anything about that.

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks for the comment

[@guidosarducci3047]

Hey Pete...you might remember me. I asked a bunch questions about rocker arm off set on B-RB cast iron heads... Well, I got the rockers all sorted out now. (Thanks) but when I pulled the bottom end apart to rebuild - there was no (I don't know what to call it) big washer behind the the timing cover. You know the one I mean? That fat-like windage type washer on the crank shaft in front of the timing gear? It's kinda beveled a little bit. Could u tell me what it's called so I can order another one. lol Thanks for all you help man...Your making this build go a lot easier for me.

[@PetesGarage]

That help prevent oil from splashing on the front seal and leaking. They are cheap at 440source.com

[@guidosarducci3047]

Thanks Pete. I didn't know what it was called. yes 440 source has me taken care of now. "oil slinger" I guess is one way to say it. Thank you man.

[@PetesGarage]

That's it

[@skylinefever]

In addition, studs often can be reused. Many engines are equipped with Torque To Yield bolts that permanently stretch in order to create the correct clamping force. Once stretched, those bolts can no longer create proper clamping force.

[@PetesGarage]

That is true, but TTY fasteners will only be found on head bolts and maybe intake bolts and other accessories like a turbo.

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

what is your opinion on the whole "do have to/dont have to, just check clearance" thing on line honing when changing to studs?

[@PetesGarage]

If you are using the same block and same crank you don't need a line hone. If you change 1 thing like a bearing cap, new crank, oversize bearings, it doesn't hurt to line hone

[@70Superbird]

I'm following along and learning from your excellent videos. Thank you for sharing. Question though, when you measured the crank end play, what do you do if you don't meet the specs? Too little or too much?

[@patw52pb1]

Fortunately many if not most crank thrust clearance specs are rather generous. Some (not all) bearing manufacturers offer oversize thrust bearing with a thicker thrust flange for some limited applications. It should be noted that these oversize thrust bearings are not effective when either the block main web/cap is damaged or the crank thrust faces are worn excessively or the crank thrust face surface finish is rough/damaged. Some crankshafts can be repaired by weld buildup and machining to spec, the same is true for some blocks. Too little clearance is just as bad as too much clearance, however in my experience too little clearance is rather rare and is usually remedied with a bearing change and or machining the crank thrust faces.

[@PetesGarage]

When the machine shop bolts up the torque plate for boring and line honing they check the clearance and machine the crank for a perfect thrust bearing fit.

[@smilsmff]

I am referring back to this video , because you are installing Main studs instead of Bolts, if the engine was already align honed with the bolts Bolts and you wanted to install Studs, should you perform Line Bore bore AGAIN?

[@PetesGarage]

You do not need to. The main caps are aligned in the block, there is play in the bolt holes

[@axlegrind4212]

absolutely...the studs change the dimension of the main bore significantly. your machinist is able to show you the difference with his dial bore gauge.

[@shadjohnsen8143]

why do some people rotate the rear main seal a little off from the seam?

[@PetesGarage]

Preference, offsetting the seam can help reduce leak paths

[@pospc2]

I had my old man recommend using blue bottle stp as assembly lube for my next build vs the lucas assembly lube i have used in the past. Any issue with using the stp as lube? It is much cheaper and has a high zinc content. I however don't want to mess up my new cams or crank.

[@PetesGarage]

I don't think you'll have a problem. You could just use a bottle of break in oil if you are going to build it and start it right up.

[@pospc2]

Pete's Garage thank you again. I will be installing right after build is completed. It would be at most 3 days before start up after assembly. My machine shop isn't very helpful around here. If he isn't building the engine he seems unwilling to answer much. However I haven't had any issue at all with the quality of machine work.

[@shadjohnsen8143]

Why wouldn't you put the studs in after installing the crank? Is it just preference?

[@PetesGarage]

Reduce chance of dropping on the crank

[@shadjohnsen8143]

@@PetesGarage do you use new or existing main/head studs or bolts to check clearances with plastigauge? And if you use new ones, can you reuse them for the final torquing or do you have to buy yet another new set?

[@jeffreymarshall6761]

Why did you offset rear oil seal, in the bolt vs stud vid, but put the seal in evenly on the other crank install video???

[@PetesGarage]

Because there are a couple ways to do it. I show both and have had no problems with either

[@richielemonscars1198]

Hi. Pete brilliant video. What RTV do you use 6minutes in on the rear main seal?

[@PetesGarage]

Permatex right stuff

[@NICK-uy3nl]

Is tightening torque for studs the same as for bolts ? Apparently when switching from bolts to studs, the tightening torque gets reduced

[@PetesGarage]

I always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

[@roncooke2188]

I must look for an orange toffee hammer, interesting video

[@PetesGarage]

Any dead blow hammer is fine

[@tjhamer3]

Good one like the vids

[@PetesGarage]

Thanks my friend

[@general23cmp]

If the crankshaft endplay is off, what can you do?

[@PetesGarage]

Machine the crank or get oversized thrust bearings

[@converseracing]

Did you check the bearing clearance?

[@PetesGarage]

Always

[@TheRoguelement]

I'm really having a hard time trying to understand why your using a Baby Torque wrench ????????????? Can you enlighten me bro ?

[@PetesGarage]

What do you mean by baby? If the wrench is within the range of the torque you are trying to achieve, it's fine.

[@inboundlight7732]

You’re**

[@HSVkid25]

What clearance do you have between the crank and bearing?

[@PetesGarage]

The crank was polished to a .003" clearance

[@HSVkid25]

Thanks for the reply Pete, I’m from Australia, just about to embark on my own 440 build. I find your clips pretty informative

[@PetesGarage]

Cool...thanks for watching. Make sure you put the piston rings on the correct side up. I made a mistake in the video.

[@roncooke2188]

how often do you have you torque wrench calibrated

[@PetesGarage]

I have an electronic torque device I use to check my torque wrenches frequently.

[@garyjonson1872]

8:03 you forgot to say to lube the caps bearings and then tap them down.

[@PetesGarage]

I thought I did....I'll have to look, thank you

[@RobertPerrigoOkiechopper]

Same for flat head Ford V-8's, Stud kit's are a sure bet.

[@PetesGarage]

Absolutely

[@roncooke2188]

i noticed you didn't put oil on the cap bearing

[@PetesGarage]

Good eye! I did take that back off and lube it.

[@cogchildofgod9647]

What about a fine thread bolt?

[@peternewman958]

Hammerhead Chiseltooth you’ll pretty much find that when a bolt goes into cast iron that the thread will be coarse and not fine. That’s why you’ll find that studs have a coarse and a fine thread on them the coarse goes into the material and the fine has the nut for accurate torque. There’s a reason for this and thats due to the structure of cast iron coarse threads are used to prevent stripping of the threads with a coarse thread there is more surface area exposed for the friction required to hold the fastener tight than there is with a fine thread. Fine threads in steel are okay as steel has a much finer structure than cast iron.

[@cogchildofgod9647]

How come you don't have the engine so it doesn't move?

[@bryantcurtis2665]

❤️🔧🚗🏁🔥

[@PetesGarage]

👊

[@RealCyco]

PTFE is more commonly known as Teflon, it is not Moly (molybdenum disulphide)

[@PetesGarage]

Teflon is a trade name for PTFE from DuPont, like Kleenex is a trade name for facial tissues. Molybdenum is a chemical element that becomes and inorganic compound when sulfur is added. I was contrasting the 2 but did not articulate it well. I use both while building engines.

[@jorgeloera9996]

Hi Pete, I can’t seem to find the exact PTFE lube you are using in your videos, could you kindly share the name brand or part number for this PTFE lube? By the way, great videos!

[@perverso12345]

No plasti gauge? I think I missed that part

[@PetesGarage]

I had the machine shop check when they bolted up the torque plate for the line hone and boring. They polished the crank right into prefect spec.

[@91rss]

and never install a part that was cleaned with mineral spirits if it sees oil, the mineral spirit leaves a film that stops oil from doing its job, so final clean with alcohol or acetone.before install with oil on it

[@PetesGarage]

Alcohol also leaves behind a thin film. Any ketone based solvent like acetone or lacquer thinner it good

[@91rss]

@@PetesGarage never heard that, thats why its used on skin. and all aircraft components etc even use it before assembly they told us

[@PetesGarage]

Since it is a distilled product it will leave a residue which causes an issue for adhesives. You can easily look that up

[@ricklodestein1101]

Acetone also leaves a film behind. I use oil to clean things. Marvel has a multitude of usage.

[@roncooke2188]

Yes i agree studs are best so why don't use studs in every motor it would make good sense

[@PetesGarage]

Well, there is a cost factor, and sometimes the engine fits so tight it would be impossible to remove a head if there were studs.

[@anthonypecoraro5402]

Pete are you still making videos? I miss your great videos

[@PetesGarage]

Yes I am, I have a bunch in the works

[@InvincibleExtremes]

Only drawback is price? Sold!

[@PetesGarage]

I know, right? Totally worth it

[@InvincibleExtremes]

Pete's Garage yup.

[@TrenchRT]

I have to disagree with you one one thing, you say to crank your torque wrench down to zero, but you should set it at the minimum scale setting. If the wrench has a scale of 10 - 120 lb you should store it at 10 lb.

[@PetesGarage]

I'll tell ya, I've been involved in so many different torque studies of the last many years that I really don't think there is a wrong way.

[@mundrubjet]

Lefty... Me too...

[@PetesGarage]

Of course

[@axlegrind4212]

you left out the most important part. a fine thread has a mechanical advantage over a course thread. you get more clamping power with the same torque reading. it is the reason the block needs align honed to correct the bore measurements. if you install studs without align honing there is not enough oil clearance because the bore is smaller. you apparently didn't point that out because you are not a machinist.

[@PetesGarage]

Thank you for the comment. Clamping force is the result or torque, not thread pitch. You get more clamping power by applying more torque.

[@axlegrind4212]

@@PetesGarage did you miss out in 7th grade science class where you use fine threaded jacks to lift a house? haha what an educated idiot. fine threads have more leverage than course threads.

[@PetesGarage]

It's unfortunate instead of trying to learn you call names and think you're right. I went well beyond 7th grade science, Calculus and Physics during my Bachelors degree, Quantum Mechanics and Finite Element Chemistry during my Masters degree, and advanced Physics while working on a PhD. Fine threads have more surface area than coarse threads. Therefore, they will reach resultant torque in finer increments than a coarse thread. Again, for any size fastener, if the identical torque is placed on it, the same clamp load will be achieved.

[@ricklodestein1101]

@@PetesGarage Don't fine threads strip out faster than course?

[@davidblalock9945]

Long story short, if you can use a stud, use a stud.

[@PetesGarage]

That sums it up

[@peternewman958]

You replied to someone that you let the shop check the oil clearance??? That’s not a good practice if your going to build engines you should measure and record all specs. Spend the money and buy the equipment to measure the reason is that machine shops have humans and humans make mistakes. It’s better to check all the work and know that it’s been bored, honed, decked clearances checked etc before you put it together because if it’s not correct then they will always blame you not themselves. I’ve seen it happen too many times with even the best shops, you don’t want to be the victim. They won’t be happy you checked but in the end they will do the right thing and correct it. Things go wrong like the correct pistons going with the correct block for boring, miscommunications into what you wanted for the oil clearance. Lots of things don’t matter in general but when you build race engines you often vary what the OEM spec may have been and if there’s a miscommunication it’s not good. I measure everything including using plastigage for clearances. The other thing you haven’t shown or even mentioned is that you should run a tap down all the holes in a block your rebuilding as they’ll have crap in them. This can seriously affect the torque of the fastener. You also haven’t mentioned cleaning a block and crank oil holes etc. Don’t rely on the shop to have cleaned them. It’s CRITICAL to clean all the oil galleries as hot baths don’t always get the crap out and especially the crankshaft oilways should always have a brush thru them to ensure no residual grinding grit etc. Same for rocker shafts if your reusing the original replace the plugs in the end and clean them out inside it’s a huge depository of crap. Check and grind if necessary any and all flashing left from the casting process. Sure it’s made it this far but you’ve pulled the engine apart and there’s been machining and the flashing may have been knocked etc. I even go so far as to paint the inside of the crankcase area with 2 pack primer and paint this leaves a perfectly clean surface that sheds oil faster back to the sump it also keeps the oil cleaner longer. All the guys I’ve built engines for have loved this feature the 2 pack epoxy stands up to the temp also. I’m watching this because you never know if there’s something you’ve never thought of and you can always learn something new. If you think you know it all then your a fool. I’m a Mechanical Engineer so I’ve studied it from the molecular level of steel and cast iron thru heat transfer and engine design cycles and machining and design. I don’t know a fraction yet there’s always something out there. So read and watch as much as you can and most importantly absorb the information, ask questions no matter how silly they may be. Of course with the internet that information is at your fingertips nowadays but don’t take the first answer as correct check and recheck. Keep up the good work Pete

[@PetesGarage]

Excellent comment, thank you very much.

[@inboundlight7732]

You’re** not your... they should have covered this detail in your college core classes during engineering school.

[@johnjubie7144]

You do not use a tap to clean threads, only a thread chaser.

[@mk-19memelauncher65]

you expect us to know all of the terminology you use

[@PetesGarage]

I don't expect anything, but you are welcome to try to learn as much as you can.

[@jarmominkkinen2450]

110. Foot pounds I do not understand Why so much.

[@PetesGarage]

Torque is driven by bolt diameter, thread pitch and material

[@carnalsupply]

Hey Pete, what stroker rotating assembly are you using?

[@PetesGarage]

Oh...it's an Eagle crank. I'll put all of the part numbers in a video