WHY OLD SCHOOL AMP DISTORTION = THE BEST DISTORTION!

Why did so many guitarists in the 60's, 70's and 80's have such unique, dynamic tones? Here we a close look at that vintage-style cranked amp magic!
0:00
9:14 Jose-style modded Germino "preamp gain"
9:38 SL68 "cranked plexi" gain
11:26 waveform pic of preamp vs. full amp drive
12:47 plexi- style amp transformer sound
13:34 SLO100 "preamp gain tone"
14:46 effect of PPIMV on tone
17:31 effect of pre-phase inverter master vol on tone
18:47 Jose-mod style gain boost, effect on tone
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[@iamjakt]

The next time anyone asks me something about gain, I'm sending them this video. It's perfect.

[@PeteThorn]

Thanks!!!

[@BigTyronie]

@@thorvelizelos its when you eat a lot and get muscles from training with weights. Thats what gains is.

[@amritjanardhanan]

@@thorvelizelos Techincally it’s (Output Voltage % Input voltage) but in guitar world it means the amount of clipping and compression

[@rodmorrin6268]

@@thorvelizelos haha. you still get gains

[@SFolkes97]

Yup, was thinking the same. Pete nailed what the secret sauce is and explained it in terms players can understand. Maybe amp builders/techs sometimes can't see the forest for the trees.

[@frostyriffs]

Pete has class like some well known pros like Lynch, Hoekstra, Mr Mars etc. Just a great human being to share his world of guitar with us all. The new generation of guitar players should relish in these times. Not so long ago you couldn’t find any instructions on “how too” etc other than VHS tape purchases through guitar mags. Now it’s free on KZbin. Enjoy it while it lasts kids. 🤘

[@teaserrocks1768]

I totally agree! I wish I had learned much of this stuff 35+ years ago. I have learned so much in the past 10 years from Pete, and Cliff Chase, Leon Todd and others, that I am so grateful they share their knowledge and passion of all things guitar and amp-wise!

[@Gitfiddle]

By class do you mean Class A or Class A B?

[@TheVanhelen]

I learn a lot from Peter. Thank you always.

[@valentino3191]

That is so true. Us GenXers growing up in the 80's had such a limited supply of info on players we enjoyed. I remember sending in to get REH videos of Lynch and Malmsteen. They cost a lot and they would wear out. =/

[@gilbertopenatoca1525]

Love this guy. Always giving something back❤️

[@RhettShull]

A true masterclass on tone, thanks Pete!

[@healyed]

This is the clearest explanation of what makes an older style amp awesome I've ever seen.

[@PeteThorn]

Thanks Ed!

[@mlody969]

And you can't tell the difference between tube amp and kemper in blind test...

[@apacheworrier3776]

If the digital sound is the only thing being played, it’s difficult to tell. When a tube amp is in the same room and they are right next to each other, I can definitely tell a difference.

[@DavidDiMuzio]

This was one of the most insightful deep dives into rock guitar tone I've ever watched.

[@normanperkel139]

Seriously... I now feel the need to buy another amp!

[@julioguitarrista]

I agree!!! Following Pete is a Graduation in Rock Guitar School.

[@matuldamegasen8562]

@@normanperkel139 😂👍

[@matuldamegasen8562]

@@normanperkel139 Don't we all, always!!

[@normanperkel139]

True@@matuldamegasen8562... True.

[@Jonhobbs64]

Yes! Nothing like hitting a massive A chord and hearing the tubes react on a cranked marshall!

[@michaelwade379]

This was so wonderfully nerdy, it could have lasted for hours and I'd still be tuned in. Great content Pete as always!

[@75stephengreen]

Thanks Pete. Tube amps are just so much fun. They truly become part of the instrument. It is a feel you can never duplicate with modeling even though it has it's place as another great tool for the guitarist. I even feel a big difference with tube over solid state rectification when the amp is driven hard. It is amazing how the feel of an amp and how it responds can drastically influence how you play. Thanks for showing younger players examples of the dynamics of driven tube amps. Something us old pickers fell in love with years ago. As usual Pete you were very spot on with your great playing examples.

[@jaycee30865]

They ARE the instrument bro! Otherwise you’re playing Bach on cat gut.

[@gavinhopkins7769]

Deserves 5 thumbs up! The sort of knowledge that would take thousands of $$$ to acquire, and hours of testing. Thanks Pete 👍

[@kenzuercher7497]

Pete, this is the first legit description of amp distortion! I'm an amp builder myself and have discovered the delights of driving the phase inverter/output tubes/output transformer! I built an amp with just the phase inverter and output stages to test this. I got the idea taking my 66 Blackface Deluxe Reverb to jam sessions and cranked it all the way up. The gain structure of a tube amp can be setup so that all of the stages (except the first preamp stage) hit the clipping point at the same time. We hit tone nirvana then!

[@erictripton]

Thanks, Pete. This is exactly what I preach to fans and friends. Ever since acquiring a Germino Lead55 non master volume, I now have tha Holy Grail of an old Plexi Marshall. My modern hi gain peamp amplifiers are tucked away. Reactive load boxes are a blessing to use this design at acceptable volume levels.

[@rhazkinz78]

Pete Thorn, you have a way of bringing things full circle and just want you to know how much you are appreciated! I know Eddie's looking down and smiling upon you and your willingness to share your knowledge! Thank you

[@johnfrewin7717]

Super helpful- I’m over 50 & have been listening closely to this kind of thing for many years & it’s only now beginning to become clear what is actually going on👍🇬🇧🎸

[@TheConspiracytheory1]

same here

[@AndyDemos]

10:30 You nailed it, Pete! The sag and non-linear bloom you're describing is why I love amp distortion over anything else.

[@RodneyWallaceDynamoC]

I think it´s the "ghosting" thing that happens when you crank the amp that makes it sound amazing. Great video as always!

[@Teleplayer59]

Over the years, Pete's become a fantastic "student of the game." It's really cool to see a player with his skills, actually dive into the nuances of the gear. It's great to see/listen/hear Pete's discussions about the little things - that all matter and add up to a player's "signature/sound/footprint/stamp" - like power tube brand selection, preamp tubes, NOS versus CP tubes, mic placement, amp distortion, and on and on. Pete - kudos on another highly informational, useful, and fun video. Thanks for putting in the time and work to make this info available to the masses - it's greatly appreciated.

[@jasonkerr931]

Truth! Plugging straight into amps is screaming back into the flow now. I have gone the digital route for so long and last week I tapped an old amp and cranked it. The tone is there! Organic, tubes, symbiotic relationship from player to speaker.

[@thraknik]

I used to have a '74 Super Lead, mid to late 80s. Jumped the channels, turned them up and adjusted to taste to get my then Rush obsessed distortion tone. Learning to play that sound is like learning to ride a rhinoceros, given the possibility. The very definition of balls without being super saturated, and my ears still ring to this day. When I listen to 2112 on All The World's A Stage I feel like I know exactly what Alex Lifeson was experiencing in that performance, particularly the low D bend during the solo in Soliloquy. Balls deluxe.

[@jpatrickgreen]

Learning to ride a rhinoceros is the perfect metaphor. It took me a few months of wrestling with my plexi clone to try to harness it. Mostly I think that I realized even though it has balls, it doesn't hide the slop in my fingers. So in that sense maybe it cleaned up my playing but in any event, the tone is massive and I'm happy.

[@michaelcraig9449]

Rush? Mahogany Rush had a way better tone with a way better guitarist. FRANK MARINO!!

[@michaelcraig9449]

Rush was sterile balls.. girls hated Rush. You want MAHOGANY RUSH LIVE album!! Check out live videos of them on youtube. Now that is the kind of balls the chicks like!

[@GhostriderPossum]

@@michaelcraig9449 You talk shit man you can't compare both ...Frank Marino is great but not as versatile as Alex Lifeson ...Franks Sound is nearly always the same but not Alex just listen to the Rush Albums

[@thraknik]

@@michaelcraig9449 I don't really care, my little tale has to do with where I was at in 1987. It's a silly comparison anyway, when a musician masters himself we should admire as is, not compete for nonexistent accolades.

[@Nightwinflyer]

I had asked if you could do a video on setting 4 hole Marshall's up and some tone examples, but then I found your video where you did just that 😀! I just bought a 1959 Plexi clone and am getting used to a NMV amp And the two volume channels. Lots of great tones to be had with all kinds of gear, but you are right...these amp circuits are the magic sauce! The DNA behind all my favorite rock albums. Rock on Pete!

[@2204JCM]

The plexi has a power transformer with a high internal resistance along with minimal filtering in the filter caps (to store energy). As you “turn it up” the transformer has to deliver more current. But the transformer resistance along with the limited energy stored in the filter caps causes the voltage to sag. Voltage is your dynamics.

[@PeteThorn]

Love it. 🤟

[@jaycee30865]

Nice one. Overbuilt power transformers are a pain; can’t get them to play ball.

[@picksalot1]

@@PeteThorn Euge Valovirta just released a video called "ST. ROCK - REACT : IR | Awesome reactive load, IR loader, attenuator etc." where he demos "What it is, how to use it & how it compares to Suhr Reactive Load IR." You may find it interesting, I did.

[@auntjenifer7774]

@@jaycee30865 depends, on 100+watt tube Amps, no ! But in 30-60 watt tube Amps it's freaking awesome ! It's the way there lower wattage amps should be ! Very dynamic !

[@sveneriksson7319]

Yes... and a plexi 1969 100 superlead amp drop around 80 volts from idle to full blast...

[@79lpcustom]

Great video! I love my JTM45 and I hear this while playing it every time, and I agree it does have some effect on how you respond to the amp as you're playing it - is very symbiotic and I don't get that sensation while playing some the very modern amps out now. It was a difficult amp to learn to play at loud volume, but has been very rewarding. Thanks again Pete!

[@briantaylor2.023]

My all-time favorite guitarist-Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac (back during Fleetwood Mac’s earliest years when they were a blues/blues rock band)-mainly used a JTM45 in the studio. 🙌 He and the other guitarists (Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwan) typically used Orange amps for live performances though.

[@johngalek4967]

I use to jam with a guy that had a jtm45 with a 4x10 cab. He used a Les Paul with T-top pups. Monster tone out of that bad boy.

[@halpearson4226]

Hey, Pete. I design tube guitar and hifi amps for my hobby (many years now). This is the best video I've seen to demo the differences in sound between the vintage and modern designs. Another important difference is the use of 'cold clipper' stages in modern preamp stages that come before the phase-inverter: these bias the midpoint of the waveform so that the clipping is all on one side of it, leaving the other half undistorted by the stage. This asymmetrical overdrive makes for a more defined sound relative to a similarly dirty sound from a vintage design, where the clipping is more symmetrical.

[@bandoflife8919]

PETE - just discovered this video Sept 2022 - You're such a studied genius for all this equipment - with the golden ears to do it - Thanks !

[@vincevince]

Excellent video Pete. This is why I love low wattage tube amps cranked all the way up, as you've shown, you need the power tubes cooking! Love high wattage tube amps too.... but my ears.... :)

[@ajlsrv5490]

IMO, the experience of playing through a plexi is unmatched. The feel and tone is just hard to describe. It’s so satisfying. FYI, the new 20-watt Marshall plexi is fantastic. Highly recommended. Very loud too!!

[@RozsaAmplificationLLC]

4:00 in is what Mark Cameron told me like 10 years ago and I communicate to others, but not just based on the amplifier (being sum of the parts), but EVERYTHING is working together as what I call a "Marriage"! The guitar....what is the wood used? is it vintage before harvesting restrictions or new? Is it hollow, reliefed, or solid body? Is it on-piece or multi? That pickups are used? Are they 7k, 10k, or 18k? What magnets are used (Alnico II, III, V, other)? What cord is used? Coiled, straight? What is the length and capacitance? What gauge? How tightly or loose are the strains? What material? What tubes are used? Model, Manufacturer, Gain? What cabinet? Dimensions? Closed-back, ported, or open back? What speakers? What resistance of the speakers? Even the pick...try a vintage medium versus a Tortex. Different attacks and tone on the strings! The last thing, and many people confuse the word "tone" being in the "hands". It's a part of the whole, but isn't really "tone" so much as it is "timbre" and "sound". People tend to confuse these terms. Timbre is in the hands. Tone is sum of the wholes of the above!!

[@jeffroCO]

Damn Pete your videos just keep getting better and better. Super cool video. I describe the tone of old Marshall’s as elastic and chewy. Your sag demo just showed it. So cool!!!

[@darrellminx5459]

Thank you for this video Pete! Nothing beats good old Power tube distortion and it cleans up!

[@deanbibb3680]

Listening to you “rant and rave” was fun! You do a good job explaining complex concepts on these amps, like pre-and post- phase inverter master volumes.

[@timothysnave]

It's amazing, you think Pete couldn't possibly have anything more to say on old-school tone and he releases the most interesting and insightful video yet. This was not the video I expected when I saw the title, but it's exactly the kind of thing I wanted.

[@PeteThorn]

🤘

[@hellraiserjohnny6298]

Pete - Thank you so very much for the time and effort putting this video together. Over the last few years I have transformed all my guitar rigs back to all tube pre-amps and power amps. I was one of those "digital" guys for 12 long years and discovered one day that I sounded like every other guitar player using digital modelers. The difference since this transformation has been stunning. I couldn't agree with you more about old school tube amp distortion, it is now the basis of all my guitar amps. My recording tone has improved 100% and is far more dynamic , "Live" and warm sounding. Your video really clears up why this approach to distortion is different from other methods. I wish I had seen this many years ago! \m/ \m/

[@EliPorterMahn]

It baffles me your channel hasn't hit a million subs yet, love your videos dude!

[@aladams684]

Great insights into distortion. I couldn't agree more. Even amps with preamp gain seem to sound better when you back off of the preamp gain, crank the output a little, and THEN add a little preamp to taste. That compression, or what I call bloom, occurs in the power amp, there is nothing like it. I also think that the reaction of the speakers to the output stage tends to have a little to do with it as well. Great video!

[@richardlee866]

Pete always describes tone like no one else. A cranked plexi ! My next favorite would be JMP 2204 or JMP 2203JMP I believe The 1st Master volumeTube amp marshals made I like it better then a JCM 800. Rock on Pete.

[@nomadicrecovery1586]

Pete, this is really a master class in this topic. Thank you for this. As the years go by and I get more and more into this, I start to realize how important the real tube compared to those modelers Of course, depending on the situation, everything is a different tool and there’s a place for modelers, but there is nothing like proper tube amp set up By the way, this is Shawn. I met you in Clearwater Beach when you were playing the show with Five for Fighting. We hung out for a bit. Very nice to meet you.

[@danemulliganband]

When I think about the Marshall heads I went through 25 years ago because I couldn’t get the sound I wanted out of them... Wish I knew then what you’re showing us now... Well done Pete.

[@rickleblanc8900]

There's nothing like a 50 watt non-master volume Marshall cranked. Raw and unleashed

[@2Plus2isChicken2013]

You always get the best tones, Pete. There is a tradeoff for using a cranked tube amp, though, and that's the maintenance involved. That's why I quit using tube amps almost entirely. I love the sound but don't know a thing about working on them. I could replace preamp tubes easily, but I don't know anything about biasing an amp and I don't want to mess around with something that contains enough voltage to kill you if you don't know what you're doing. Add to that the problem of the expense of getting someone to do it all for you and how long it will take them to get to it if you can even find anyone and it just makes more sense to me to run a few pedals into a solid state Quilter amp, which is what I've been doing for a while, and I'm happy enough. It's certainly nothing like tubes, though. It's also not like I ever had much reason to use high-wattage tube amps considering 95% of the time I play at home and the other 5% of the time I play at a church that requires a quiet stage.

[@stephenwilson1625]

This will be a top-ten “good tone explanation” video FOREVER. Reactive load + reamping and playing through monitors is the new, better master volume setup. Thank you Pete!

[@Synic42]

Thank you! This is absolutely amazing and just the kind of stuff I love about vintage amps. Going back to the basics of how a guitar signal is basically modulating a power transformer to drive a speaker is so essential to understand the basics of true guitar tone. This is what modern technology and modelers can't recreate, the synergy of the circuitry.

[@randyrothschild7340]

Brilliant discussion! I never would have thought to compare the transformer responses. Really well done Pete!

[@jamiegustkey2573]

I love how those PAF's on the destroyer choke/squish out at revved volumes when playing RWTD! There's like this squeek that happens when you strum with wide open pots- 👏🏻💎

[@TheAxe4Ever]

Yeah buddy! The best “distortion” ever is volume! Of course I do like a bit of pre amp distortion like anyone else, but I prefer the old school EVH way of developing some power amp saturation as well and introducing some speaker breakup as well. If it’s too loud, you’re too old. And that’s coming from an old guy. 😂

[@repetitivemotion]

I agree, but you need the right venue to do that. It’s tough to do in a basement rehearsal studio when the singer is giving you dirty looks

[@mlody969]

Every audio engineer will kill you if you will try volume distortion in studio or live gig.

[@dawnpoint]

When the video starts with the best tone I’ve ever heard, I know it’s gonna be good.

[@ericklinger9983]

Totally agree that older style circuits deliver “the goods”. While my electronics theory is not up to par with real-world amp builders, I build my own stuff and can weigh in on some factors / observations. 1. Tube count. I think two preamp valve circuits offer just the right balance of distortion because it maintains an insane amount of what I perceive as “percussion” - pick attack. Once more valves are added to the equation, you have to do crazy amounts of low end dumping to maintain an acceptable sound. An EVH for example (as PV 5150 before it) dumps a massive amount of low end between the first two stages to keep all that pick attack. 2. Power filtering. Most modern amps use an incredibly high amount of power filtering to get that DC as smooth as possible (1Hz). Again as an example, EVH and Soldano (very similar circuits) use as much as 4x or more the amount of power filtering (reservoir) in the initial filtering stages. But then lower the values at the preamp to obtain a sort of raw and “bounce” character to the sound. Old plexi amps had very low filtering (including the so called 12xxx era ’68 plexi). Even in or around ’69 much of the power filtering was nearly doubled at most points. Makes the amp over all “stiffer” sounding. 3. Compression/Glue etc… the so called “sag” that we absolutely love about the old Marshall sound seems to be a combination of above said power filtering combined with the drop in B+ voltages. The amp is struggling to reproduce the deep bass frequencies, which eat up a ton of power, thus the voltage drops and we hear this compression and blooming going on. I try to get my MV friends, that use 800’s or more modern amps, to start with the master at at least 7. I keep my MV on my 2203 circuit at 8. Then use the preamp gain to make up what you’re missing or balance the tone with the bright cap that is on the preamp vol. Even a 5150III sound rather nice to me when the master is high and use the preamp vol to balance it out. The word Master Volume seems to have psyched people out. Of course volume is always an issue, but there are several ways to combat that - PPIMV probably being the least invasive to the core tone… maybe. My perfect 2203 circuit would have a pre and a post MV. It’s not redundant… and sometimes too much PI distortion can be a tad ratty when there are ore preamp valves (not including the PI). Well, I’m no master of the arts, this is just a collection of my personal thoughts and observations being obsessed with building my own amps for my use.

[@PeteThorn]

I agree with you! That is all! Ha ha! Do you know your stuff. Absolutely true about having to trim the bass out of the preamps, the more cascaded stages you have, the .0022 on the boost tube in a José circuit is the only way to keep er tight...

[@ericklinger9983]

@@PeteThorn .0022 indeed! Later 70's era 1959 had that as well (at least by looking at schematics). If I remember correctly, the old Peavy 5150 used a 500pF in this position!!! That's how much low end had to be dumped off... that's bright cap, or treble EQ cap territory. I assume not only for that reason that so much low has to be grounded, but more tubes rounds out the attack... makes it more dull. Two preamp tubes (pre PI) has always been my fav. Either three stages as in a plexi or four stages in a 2203.

[@colaboytje]

This comment needs to be pinned.

[@jaycee30865]

So much I don’t know. Howbout this: don’t you prefer the tone of a 2204 over a 2203? I think 1 vs 1 power tubes play a cleaner game of tug of war than 2 vs 2. So 2 in the pre and 2 in the amp with a phase inverter to play referee: magic formula.

[@danh7739]

For me, power tube distortion is just a lot more musical than pre-amp distortion. It makes playing a lot more fun and exciting, whatever guitar I'm playing comes alive in my hands and I end up playing for hours. Good luck to everyone and another shout out to Pete for sharing his dedication and wisdom.

[@zachariahwade8482]

Spot on. I love my stock 79 JMP 2203, but I’ve noticed over the years that I end up playing my stock 70 Superbass and 71 1987 for longer periods of time in each session. They are so responsive to picking dynamics and the guitars controls that I can get lost for hours discovering new sounds without ever touching the amp settings.

[@Diax1324]

I'd love to hear you try to get an Eric Johnson-type tone with an old Marshall. This video is such a fantastic way to explain why tube amps simply cannot be replaced by pedals, let alone vintage tube amps which work as a whole system in concert.

[@shader26]

Very enlightening. To me, I first understood sag viscerally in the seventies with my Ampeg VT-44. At gigs in those days I got to crank that loud amp, and I felt like I was riding a tiger. Didn’t help I was playing an ES-335 so had to constantly either us or try and suppress feedback. Was very cool, and also the speakers were working very hard. But back then I didn’t know then how amplifiers worked really. My real first encounter though with it was much later listening to Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore East for the thousandth time. It struck me suddenly like a revelation in one of the songs where they had a harmonica solo and then guitar solo, just how much those guitars, Duane and Dicky, tone sounded very similar to the harmonica when blown hard. That sag and bloom. I may be wrong, but I think I hear it all over the place. Like in the second solo of stormy Monday when the guitar is playing nice and easy, pretty clean, and then he digs in and it just blooms. To me it’s that hard blown harmonica sound and easier to hear on single notes like the solos on that album. At least I think it is. So in an amp the preamp is as you say, amplifying voltage, and in the output stage it is actually amplifying current, to do the work of moving the speakers. The signal is split into plus side and minus side, each output tube (or in some cases tube pairs) taking each side of zero, plus going and minus going. The power supply and PS tube(s) rectify the AC and give a framework (how high or low the signal can get) and when any power supply is slammed, made to supply more voltage than it can handle it results in voltage drop. So the top and bottom, the framework of where how high or low the signal can go is reduced, but here I’m not sure if the signal also is attenuated…I think it is as the power supply is no longer able for that little bit of time to keep up, so it isn’t just compression, or it is compression of both the limits (upper and lower) of the signal but also the signal itself is diminished. Anyway, I love the sound, and am looking into a few pedals that claim to be able to sag. Often many of them actually just starve the bias for transistors, and sound splatty, but found a few examples where it does indeed seem to sound like sag, or my understanding of it with the initial slightly starved sound and then bloom.

[@EyeShotFirst]

Thanks for explaining something I always noticed about Eddie's tone. I've always thought his tone had a breathing quality to it, and a snappy snarl at times. That really explains why classic Van Halen sounds like that, and later Van Halen doesn't.

[@valentino3191]

My favorite amp I ever owned was an old Magnatone 23 watt, practice amp. It had only one, eight-inch speaker. But if I put my RAT pedal into the front, I could get such awesome gain from driving the imput. Probably sounds weird, but I miss those days. It was all so new and I got so many cool sounds from so little gear. Just a Stratocaster a cheap, old tube amp and a RAT pedal.

[@TheGhostfaceKLR]

My first guitar was a '60s Rickenbacker and Sears Silvertone amp, both of which were given to me by a family friend in the mid 80's. Wow. I had no idea what I had, and later traded it at a music store for some cheap low-end Kramer and a solid state Peavy amp with chorus. It was the days of hair metal. But I still have my RAT pedal that I got in the mid-80's. I still wish I had that old Ric and Silvertone setup though.

[@toast180]

Gotta say Pete, even with youtube compresisng audio, ever since I got a pair of very flat and neutral studio speakers your demos have been SO helpful. Even thru youtube now I can hear about as close to what I can expect if I try them in a live environment. I really appreciate all the hard work brother!! All of your amazing phrasing and style also makes it super enjoyable to listen to haha. Stay cool dude!

[@PeteThorn]

Thanks man! Yeah I don’t really think it’s a compression thing with KZbin, they do limit or normalize rather, lately I’ve been recording my videos- or rather, mixing the audio- at a lower level. Because I know they normalize to -14 lufs. So it seems pointless to go too hot. Regardless, generally I find KZbin sounds pretty good!

[@joejohnson8966]

@@PeteThorn Agree

[@toast180]

@@PeteThorn Wow thanks for the insight, didnt know what caused youtube audio to sound subpar to me before, must have been a shitty speaker set haha. I always do find your mix to sound exceptionally well for the platform

[@younken24films]

I've been playing electric guitar for over 50 years and I need to give credit to you Pete for me FINALLY being thrilled with the guitar tones I'm getting recently. I just wish KZbin and you had been around in my youth. "THANK YOU x infinity!"

[@srubel59]

Another great cerebral, analytical study in tube amp tone. I really love the way you're educating folks that weren't around back in the 70s, (like me) . I would love to see you A/B your PT 15 dimed against your SL68 (also dimed). Then you can compare 450V on the plates on a of quad EL34s against 350V on a pair of 6V6s. The goal to compare tone other than the obvious sound pressure levels, or loudness?

[@allenlocke1935]

Awesome Pete! ...and I always thought a huge part of it was the raging 4X12 cabinet screaming "No Mas!". I'm telling you youngsters here, there is no thrill like having your back turned to a 4X12 cab on stage and riffing like Mr. Thorn here! Every budding rock guitarist should know that feeling. For what is worth check out Criss Oliva's tone on the 1993 release' Edge Of Thorns" throughout the whole album, the rhythm guitar tone is brutal. It truly has that "Wall Of Marshall's" sound. You can almost feel the air be pushed by the cabs! Just beautiful! Then there's the brilliant lead work...another story altogether I'm sure! If anyone out there reading this knows that story, into how his sound was captured for that release...please do tell!

[@seanwalsh999]

I know exactly that feeling then my 12 speaker shredded so I went to my second 12 and shredded that one then my Mother came down to the basement and told me to turn it down, oh, ok Ma, no problem, no speakers left. The end of my short loud distortion playing career, couldn't afford any more speakers unless I wanted to start cutting lawns for money. Thanks Pete for trip down memory lane.

[@liveatalexs]

I've just bought a Marshall SV20H, and even though it's a 20 watt Plexi, this was hugely informative. Thank you!

[@robh1780]

Pete Townsend and his Highwatt and maybe a MXR didtortion box was so dynamic. He went from super clean to Jimmi type distortion is a heartbeat.

[@jerbear1601]

I've always steered away from distortion and overdrive pedals and used the amp preamp and power amp gain and it's much more organic and less chopped off on top.

[@jonathananthony1901]

This explains why I have never liked any digital amp type or plug in based guitar rig system. I’ve always preferred lower wattage amps and CRANKING THEM. The over all dynamic and “feel” is something I have gotten so used to. I have friends who keep having me try Kempers and other digital rigs, and they sound cool, but I’ve always gone back to my cranked tube rigs. The tone is the sum of ALL it’s parts. Now I know why, thank you!

[@southboundsuarez9832]

+10 to that my brother! I agree... It is sometimes so difficult to explain or describe "feeling" that perfect guitar tone.

[@roderickhager8154]

Truly the crust of the biscuit! Awesome job Peter. The quest for the holy grail brought me to this great channel, plexi the reference. All great rock albums was recorded with the reference tone the most desired tone. We have come 360 degrees back to output generated distortion with all the wonderful characteristics you explained perfectly, tube generated even order harmonics. The beauty of the early amps was the inefficiency of the components and circuit. No need to thank me I'm thanking you man! Killer!💪🤘

[@yourefromdownsouth9728]

Amazing video Pete! I've read this stuff so often but never actually been able to listen in an apples-to-apples comparison (in as much as that is possible). People talk about this so often like they're experts but I'm convinced 95% are just repeating what they've heard elsewhere rather than really experiencing it themselves. It's funny, my initial thought of the first A/B comparison in the video was that I couldn't really tell the difference, but once you pointed out what you were hearing and I went back for another pass, I couldn't un-hear it after that. I can absolutely see why that linear, even pre-amp gain is so popular with more contemporary heavy styles of music. It brings a consistency that is just right in that context. But for those of us stuck in the tonal past (in the best of all possible ways), there is just so much character in the NMV gain sound. Thanks for another great video!

[@PeteThorn]

Exactly man! Could be argued that it’s a subtle difference but it is THERE. And honestly if you listen to those first six Van Halen records you’re not going to be able to un-hear it now with regards to those either! Whenever he really whacks a chord and it rings, you’re going to hear that vowel sound over and over and over. To me it’s a big part of what made the tone so special - it was so complementary to the parts he was playing- like the guitar is talking to you. It’s not extreme like a wah or a talk box- but it’s there, it’s subtle, it’s so cool and it’s part of the music!

[@markholmes2665]

Started playing live in early '70.....started out with crap amps, hated my tone....but I was always told to turn down ( played in bars and small halls ).....I've never had the old " non master volume amps".....my first "good" amp was a Boogie MKIIB....it was really the first time I could get the drive I wanted....and I was still told to turn down.....I never could blast an amp the way everyone wanted to......so you make due.....I figured how to place the amp on stage so it wasn't blasting into the crowd and the sound man.....I could get enough of the power stage to help "push" the tone, but I learned to use low wattage amps....now I use a Boogie 20 watt Subway Rocket 1x10 combo, and it works. I can turn it up. No, it's not the same as blasting the 100 watt amps, but who can do that anymore? I learned to use low wattage amps....and learned to like it.

[@captaintrips8651]

Who in the actual fuck down voted this video? This is guitar nerd gold!

[@YahNation]

rap fans

[@jessedaly7847]

It was probably mick and dan lol

[@farqueleyou7578]

Fender owners

[@FrankRizzo333]

People that are butthurt they can’t afford tube amps

[@rokinrandy]

never ceases to amaze me

[@angusorvid8840]

Awesome video. I have always preferred vintage cranked amps for distortion and a boost pedal to tweak it like an EQ, but without using much pedal distortion because it gets very thin. I love the full tone of power tube distortion, which is where the magic happens. It's not the preamp alone.

[@stringtheoryguitars4952]

EXCELLENT VIDEO! After an Eric Johnson show (around 1990) I was fortunate to shake his hand and ask the secret to great guitar tone. Well.... about an hour later, and my head was swimming. He knew so much about the amps, speakers, guitars, etc... I didn't understand it all, but I realized that it requires a sh*t ton of knowledge LOL

[@dashripkin]

"There's only one way to get there, and that's turn it up." I need that on a T-Shirt. I also need a sticker that I can put on my amp, just as a reminder.

[@ioncewas]

"Yeah, but... This one goes to eleven..."

[@bbbro34]

I finally just admitted to it a few years back and got the 4-hole Plexi, because while there's many imitators, there's really only one original for that tone, to me anyway...no turning back now...and it's NOT just a one-trick pony, it's a tonal beast on a whole lot of levels. Dynamic, finger induced overdrive if you want it. While it takes pedals really well, naked with a guitar pluged in and the player is really all one needs (ask Angus), all in the guitar and amp and player relationship there; that dynamic is not available with an OD or distortion pedal into a clean amp. Yes, I keep an old Showman around for that sound too though...flavors.

[@johnmarshall3903]

Totally agree!

[@brianrojasofficial]

Great video Pete. We can’t live without both styles of distortion. The preamp gain tries to mimic the output gain so we can play at home while we wait for a chance to experience the real thing.

[@jasonlhendricks]

This video finally clues me into why I always loved the sound of cranked amps at live shows. It's that chunky sag! Obvious now, but never could quite put my finger on why some amps just sounded meaner live.

[@bobbyvaldez7823]

Love the old school sound - that sag to me sounds more "natural" to what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's.

[@howabouthetruth2157]

Hey Pete! 3 THINGS: First, there's just no duplicating ( but some get close ) the tone of an old Plexi's tone that sounds so "alive", but I think of equal importance, something ya didn't mention, is when ya rolled off the guitar's volume for the verses of the EVH song, the old Marshall sounds SO much more musical & sweeter vs amps with built-in pre-amps. All of the above is why I want one of Marshall's new little 20w Studio Plexi amps. I've played through a few at various shops and I swear, I love the tone of that little amp ( EVEN THE COMBO!!! ) better than any of my JCM 800's and 900's. Not to mention it has some new features vs the old Plexi's. 20 watts rms is still loud as hell, but at least you can crank it to get that tone without sheering the enamel off your teeth & killing small animals within 100 ft, lol. Have you tried the new 20w Marshall Studio Plexi yet? I think they nailed it.

[@BigTyronie]

A 100w marshall is dangerous lol. I heard a 20w mesa cranked and its obnoxiously loud. Id like to see in db how much less its output is. I know a 50w marshall is only a few db quieter than a 100 it just breaks up faster.

[@howabouthetruth2157]

@@BigTyronie Yeah, they say a good 50w tube amp is actually around 75% power ( + or - ) of a 100w amp. I'm convinced of that myself, because my old 50w JCM 800 seemed to be about as loud as my 100w JCM 900.........so a quality 20w tube amp is still loud as hell. Plenty for most gigs & the loudest drummers. Besides, in the real world, most working musicians aren't performing in huge stadiums these days. Beginners who buy a good 20w tube amp thinking it's "a practice/bedroom amp" are gonna be in for a rude awakening.........if not a quick eviction notice, lol.

[@stevencancel1727]

@@howabouthetruth2157 I'm using the 79 GM p50w master volume put the chassis in a 112 cab with a Greenback 25 watt I run the amp around 7 or 8 usually around seven and a half on the master and then add gain to get the good sound Custom 78 pickup Les Paul

[@dylanadams1455]

you need to multiply power by ten to get a doubling of volume, so a 100w amp is twice as loud as a 10w amp. That's why so many people are buying 20w amps now - they have 60% of the volume of a big rig. My little Orange Micro Dark is ridiculous with a 2x12

[@ericolson326]

Thanks for a great explanation and demonstration of sag and why it may or may not be everyone's cup of tea. ("Ask your doctor if Ampsag is right for you.") I particularly enjoyed the sound of the A string when you rolled the volume back for the verse riff. I associate dimed NMV amps with a woofier sound, but that still had a nice bit of bite.

[@justinainsworth6264]

Also worth mentioning is through Greenback speakers they're gonna be adding quite a bit of their own breakup having a 100 watt head running flat out into them. The low end is also receiving enough power to resonate the cabinet to get that vowel like sound it makes. I find that vowel like low midrange disappears even when attenuating more than 3-6 dB, but the amp itself is still working just as hard(This was noticeable to me in your Iron Man attenuator demo). Sheer volume/loudness and cab resonance really is a huge part of those classic electric guitar tones. A key part of the Marshall sound is that the low-end is nearly clean, and the mids through highs are what break up. That's why many classic tones of Marshalls often sound both clean and dirty at the same time. It's like the upper midrange bark sits on top of a much cleaner tone in the low-end all from the same amp. This effect is most pronounced at extreme volumes. Joe Bonamassa talks about this in the Premier Guitar video on playing loud with the High Powered Tweed Twins(not crazy far off from super leads). Saying it can be turned down and gain structure maintained, but that it won't howl if it is. I think his use of the word "howl" is interchangeable with Pete's "waaaooooww." Many players today don't realize just how loud a 50 or 100 watt head is running full out.

[@hubbsllc]

My archetype for wound-out tube amp is John McLaughlin with the original Mahavishnu Orchestra in Central Park, August 1973. The guitar solo in "Sister Andrea" has that perfect meltdown tone. From what I can tell from photos from the era, it's probably a Marshall Super Lead full stack - likely a backline rental. But even way shy of that, even a Princeton Reverb turned all the way up will make you feel like f'n Pete Townshend.

[@godfreydaniel4383]

I have a vintage blackface Princeton Reverb - and I'll confirm that! Of late, I've been putting a few different fuzz pedals in front of it - and DAMN!

[@hubbsllc]

@@godfreydaniel4383 I do that too when, as is the case most of the time, I'm not going to have the PR turned up super loud. I usually use a germanium FF clone I built myself (and lucked out on re the transistor selection). Acorn Amplifiers' Circuit Fuzz works well too, but doesn't pass as much bass as my FF clone.

[@wgb01001]

Pete Townshend’s HiWatt amp distortion sound from Live At Leeds is the greatest guitar tone of all time.

[@kimblez]

PETE - thanks for post this man , this is gold , real tube amp stuff.... the axe fx generation needs to watch this

[@TheCyberMantis]

The old vintage stuff always has it's charm. But the new stuff is getting really close. AxeFXIII can do it ALL. Too much, really. You can spend more time tweaking settings, than playing. Some people like a simple rig, with a few knobs. So the old-school stuff will always be around, for guys who like that kinda thing.

[@lanceraustin]

@@TheCyberMantis Pete's Marshall.. has more than just "charm," my dude

[@TheCyberMantis]

@@lanceraustin Same thing with Euge Valovirta's `84 JCM800 bad-boy. As for me... i'm a cheapskate. I'm rockin` a Boss Katana head. ( Which is surprisingly good for the money. )

[@creativeheadroom]

Hahahahaha, that big smile on your face when you engage the gain boost in the Jose-modded amp says it all. "Ahh yes: MORE GAIN!" ;-)

[@skoorb1]

I don't know how many singers I've tried to explain this too as I'm blowing their little Yamaha P.A. away in practice!

[@replaceablehead]

I think sag is the most noticeable difference, everything else is really just different flavors of clipping.

[@joemcgraw5529]

Just finding you thanks to finally Finding Tone talk ,yes true distortion is how we used the amps in the 70s ,I still have my 67 Tiesco that I bought back then and i guess it was the ceramic PUPs but I can get true distortion at fairly low volumes with that guitar kind of like a hollow body guitar but way different ,love this episode !!!!!1 I had to put a ABR bridge on that old Tiesco to get it to intonate

[@10sassafras]

Really helpful video. Multiple gain stages going in and out of clipping adds so much complexity to the sound. Pedals designed with multiple gain stages sound more amp like too even though they aren’t as satisfying as the real thing.

[@steveinmidtown]

would venture to say if Ed was still around he'd watch this & go, "hmmmm, so that's what I was doing!"

[@richardharris9057]

I have a live Allan Holdsworth dvd playing a Solid State amp for lead getting Killer Tone !!! Go figure!!

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

you really wouldn't have wanted to see his massive rack.....

[@pitthefrit6292]

I have a 1985 Marshall Mosfet 100 Reverb with a 4-12 cabinet that sounds something between EVH and Dimebag. The amount of volume is just ridiculous, loudest thing i have ever heard..Ty Tabor also has a huge tone without tubes. That does not mean that solid state is better, and certainly most solid state/transistor amps are not useful for distortion tones.

[@turtletracks7657]

Excellent presentation and analysis. I could hear the difference. The cranked old school definitely sounds more like the old recordings.

[@blackdogrover]

Yup. You nailed it, Pete. I’m right there with you and am very grateful you spelled it out. Personally, I kick only an overdrive pedal… or two… or three… in front. Otherwise, my signal is pure amp-driven. Thanks again, Pete. You Rock.

[@BentTom]

@18:07 I know all of the good 'distiortion' is in the power section. Cheers!

[@BentTom]

Loved the video, Pete. Thanks.

[@mikeschmidt3324]

Pete still has the coolest Ibanez ever.

[@nicholastotoro7721]

The “lawsuit” era Ibanez guitars are such under-appreciated guitars.

[@RJW14]

@@nicholastotoro7721 I got one (Les Paul)..... and after 46 years it's really nearing the end of it's life 😂 It's seen it's fair share.

[@drippinglass]

I’d rather have the real thing. 😀

[@ivanrohal7489]

@@nicholastotoro7721 No they are not. They are very appreciated and thought after guitars.

[@Boogieplex]

So happy Pete geeks out over amps as much as I do. Nothing like a fat,tight,crunchy,dynamic Marshall tone with a touch of sag to make my day start off right. Pete, you should check out Splawn amps, they combine that old school Marshall tone with a modern tightness and bottom end.Ive had loads of vintage Marshalls,but my Splawn Nitro is really good...im wondering if you’ve played one and what you thought? I really think you’d dig them.

[@mikecorey8370]

Never say you can't learn something new every day, especially when it comes to guitar. You cn learn something every time you pick it up. Thanks, Pete. Good stuff.

[@t.j.fuller9531]

This whole talk and demo reminds me of the Metroamp Forum in the early 2000's when there was so much of this type of discussion / trial and error and everyone contributing alot / I learned so much back then // awesome video Pete ! who mics a transformer ? you do...... and that makes this video that much more awesome !!

[@markn4526]

Another great video and I love the Explorer! I just jammed with a new band last week and took my slightly modded 1984 50w JCM800 2x12 combo with me (a heavy beast to be sure). The 2 other guitar players had a DSL100 half stack and a 100w Peavey Valveking half stack. We did a quick sound check before any playing to be sure we were all at the same levels. We started the first song, "Just Got Paid", and the bass player (leader of the band) stopped the playing after about a minute and said that I had to turn down. Now we were all at the same dB level, yet my old JCM800 was cutting thru as if it was louder than everyone else. Just sayin'...

[@jamesha175]

maybe because your amp has 2 speakers vs the half stack's 4

[@markn4526]

@@jamesha175 An open-back 2x12 50w combo amp, all else being equal, shouldn't cut thru a mix better the 2 100w amps going thru closed-back 4x12 cabs.

[@jamesha175]

@@markn4526 ok your combo amp has 2 speakers which means that your 8 ohm speakers can be wired either in series = 16 ohms or in parallel = 4 ohms. if wired in parallel then your amp feels as if it's engine is running downhill whilst in series it feels as if it is laboring uphill. really this is the only difference between your amp and the other guy's amps.

[@markn4526]

@@jamesha175 What? My amp is running 2-16 ohm speakers in parallel = an 8 ohm load on the 50w amp. I'm pretty sure their 4x12 cabs are wired for 8 ohms being pushed by 100w amps. Besides all that, 4 - 12 inch speakers have a lot more (twice as much) sound pressure than does 2 - 12 inch speakers. I will emphasize that before we even started playing, decibel levels were balanced with a decibel meter. My amp just simply had more presence in the mix.

[@jamesha175]

@@markn4526 ok it can be attributed to magic then

[@LeonTodd]

Great video, and that Ibanez sounds amazing.

[@patrickfreuler1376]

As someone who has built 25+ vacuum tube guitar amps, from 5 watts to 100 watts as well as having owned numerous classic tube amps since the 90s, this is one of the best breakdowns of why they sound like they do. Kudos to Pete.

[@skerryperry3]

I've always said, if you need an OD pedal, you bought the wrong amp. My 6505+ has all I need.

[@humbucker1414]

Hey Pete, which pedal for that "real amp" distortion from my Deluxe Reverb set clean? ...completely kidding, great video! Serious question, in your experience how much of the magic do you lose with an attenuator?

[@PeteThorn]

You can completely retain all the magic if you use a load/reamp, power station is my fav for this!

[@jaycee30865]

Jetter gold. Or purple. But leave it off and turn up the knob labeled “volume” on the Fender all the way.

[@humbucker1414]

@@jaycee30865 Nice answer. Next time I'm home and my wife and kids are out, I think I'm going to crank it. I gotsta know!

[@l6srob990]

Im 57 and been playing guitar since Im 13 and the knowledge you give us is incredible thank you for sharing it with us

[@grimeyhonkyracing3938]

Nice video 👍 I deliberately sought out an amp from the late 80s after I lost my old marshall and then my early 90s peavey to capture the sound of that time, there's nothing like it it's a very special sound.

[@joeywilder9708]

Why anyone would pick pedal distortion over tube amp distortion is beyond me!

[@akaiyui9300]

1st. I carry my own gear (guitar and pedals). I can't carry anything beyond that. 2nd. Tube amps a ficking expensive. I've been eyeing a small $250 Guyatone amp but I don't have the means to purchase it. 3rd. Not sure if I could even easily switch from clean to od quickly.

[@ilovecops5499]

I use MXR 78 Distortion with transistor amps because I cant afford to replace tubes. I sparingly use my JMP-1 preamp.

[@violao206]

What a beautiful Ibanez Destroyer! ...and a fantastic clinic on tube amp architecture and its design functions.

[@kevintorrey3554]

This is easily the best explanation and demonstration I have ever seen as to how this all works. Thanks a lot, Pete. Your videos really provide a lot for musicians of all stripes (even us blues guys who really don't get a lot of focus).

[@jerrywatt6813]

I have a 1968 plxi 50 w smallbox marshall head i got it 40 years ago i use to crank all the knobs up and man that was my tone ha ha its almost as loud as my super lead thanks pete cheers