Phil Ochs & John Lennon - Chords of Fame

[@neonatalpenguin]

Apparently, Dylan did like Ochs' music, though he famously treated Ochs badly. Dylan told an interviewer he had trouble "keeping up" with Ochs' songwriting, and eventually played a benefit show organised by him. I suspect Dylan saw Ochs as a rival, and later saw him as part of the protest singer scene he wanted to shake off. Incidentally, Jesse Dylan said that Bob listens to Ochs' music a lot these days, and he's played him on Theme Time Radio Hour more than once.

[@eytonshalom]

i mean they were both just boys then, and on lots of drugs.

[@kathrynfauble9053]

Eyton Shalom, L.Ac. Neither Dylan nor Ochs was a boy when they first heard each other’s music. Ochs drank and used amphetamines but avoided heroin, cocaine and hallucinogens.

[@padraiggillon]

Jakob Dylan has done Phil Ochs songs in concert. And he says his father listens to a lot of Phil's music these days.

[@Ducksoup67]

"I play Bobby Dylan, a young Bobby Dylan..." -- Ringing of Revolution. : )

[@chesterproudfoot9864]

Given the claims of Dylan being a plagiarist it wouldn't be surprising. Seems as if Dylan sang to the record buyers, Ochs sang to the people.

[@alnicospeaker]

That rare time Phil Ochs sings a song about the dangers of fame to John Lennon.....

[@maureendevries1904]

The two greats. John Lennon and Phil Ochs.

[@paulc5358]

+Maureen Devries Yep!! what more can we say!

[@Jennings9462]

I knew Phil Ochs quite well. We talked about everything. Lennon was interested in songs that made statements and lifted the heart-like Phil. John wanted to spend more time learning and writing with Phil. Both were brilliant. John often said he didn’t want to become like McCartney doing only cute little songs. Both agreed there was a place for them but not solely

[@marcusteblano6376]

I believe they were both attacked by agents of the state, Phil in Africa (not fatally, but damaged his vocal chords) and Lennon fatally, through a weak minded proxy

[@d.c.8828]

@@marcusteblano6376 100% state "projects"

[@pieman420]

phil ochs picked me up hitchhiking at the freeway exit on lincoln blvd while i was on the way to venice....that was in spring 1975...on the other hand i knew phil thru the yippie/antiwar movement

[@elinordstrom4535]

You met him in person! I would’ve fainted!

[@oppothumbs1]

He had double trouble personality by then .. wrong? I mean manic depression that went untreated so you were in danger.

[@jeffreyhhatcher3992]

@@oppothumbs1 A quick word cos I can't resist: People with mental illnesses such as Borderline Personality Disorder, or Bipolar Disorder (used to be called Manic Depression) as Ochs probably had, etc., are not violent to any higher degree than the mentally fit. Important to know.

[@thearts9359]

Cool

[@jerrysmith2354]

@jeffreyhhatcher3992 in 1975, Phil, at this point refering to himself as John Train, would always walk around with either a hammer, a pipe, a machette, or a gun. He was a slob and a mess and attacked multiple people like police officers and a lady who was told he was to leave the appartment hed been staying at, and also threatened multiple peoples lives. So sure, not all BPD are violent, but at the time, Phil was.

[@MrSmithoono]

Amazing to have a recording to have captured these guys in one jam! Song choice might have been a message from Phil to John

[@sandrise1]

Thinking of Phi Ochs hurts my heart. Gone way too soon. ❤

[@TheOhioan4truth]

AMAZING!!!!! I met Phil Ochs in Columbus, Ohio, in 1969 (prior to the March On Washington) near the OSU campus during a 'Moratorium Against The Vietnam War' meeting (of which I was a member) before going to the 'March On Washington, November 13 - 15, 1969). Black armbands with a white dove worn on our left upper arms...as that was our 'flag of protest'. It cost me all of sixteen dollars for a round trip ticket via Greyhound Bus Lines from Columbus, Ohio, to Washington, D.C., and back, but of course! He was special then....still is...and will ever be. Memories are priceless. P.S. My birthday is November 15th. What a helluva birthday present! I'll never forget that day...teargassed and chased by the cops, too, when they broke up the 'party' at the Washington Monument that night!

[@arru23]

TheOhioan4truth You sound like a cool person

[@TheOhioan4truth]

arru23 Thanks for the compliment...but Mr. Ochs was the "cool" one! I was blessed just to have heard him sing.

[@shirahd.6270]

TheOhioan4truth Would you mind telling us what was he like?

[@paulc5358]

+TheOhioan4truth I wish I did I got into him in the early 80's too bad he's gone!:(!

[@buckeyebill5638]

+Shirah Shohat The World may have been a better place had he lived to an old age. He was a troubled soul...but loved his Fellow Man. Thanx for asking. "May all beings have radiant health, absolute joy, peace, wisdom and prosperity now and eternally."

[@joeguajardo5092]

Americas greatest folk singer .

[@d.c.8828]

Absolutely.

[@JMarinelli]

@@d.c.8828 After Woody Guthrie, perhaps.

[@richardlambert3238]

This is remarkable. I never heard anyone refer to this in the biographies of Ochs.

[@RickNowels1]

nice to hear this. ochs and lennon...my absolute heroes! gone too soon...

[@gordondills2773]

This is awesome. I like a lot of music, but no artist has moved me by their art more than these two!

[@Anthony-jc1ii]

Agreed...

[@marcmiller4172]

Add Neil Young. Neil was a big fan of Ochs.

[@JaneFrieman]

I never knew this existed! Lennon and Ochs collaborating in this session. My youth has blossomed in the age of revolution. Fascism has tried to silence our right to dissent.

[@arru23]

This song is eerily predicting the fate of both these great men

[@pauljustice5410]

Interesting observation. Lennon was certainly a victim of his fame in the most literal sense, but did he fail, fade, or lose himself in it? I think not.

[@fuas710]

@@pauljustice5410 you dont think fame was the root of his family problems?

[@rowan-m8850]

@@fuas710 The root of his family problems was his dad leaving him when he was a baby/5 yr and his mums death.

[@larrylar1000]

Just awesome,totally agree with Sid Yiddish.And again thank-you so much for posting this.This is first time I have heard this version.Didn't know Phil knew Lennon.Two great songwriters and human beings.

[@mariocamarillo5285]

both great songwriters.

[@CathyPaine]

Fascinating...makes so much sense that these two would meet and find common ground! I had no idea...

[@jaygold9923]

Wow. God help the troubador who tries to be a star...

[@GarySchipper1]

It's nice to see that Lennon appreciates Ochs. Dylan didn't.

[@towelierg-400smarttowel9]

Dylan did until Ochs "insulted" him.

[@pbubs3798]

dylan did.... and he said there was no keeping up with phill

[@pampero94]

Why didnt Lennon help Ochs

[@margaretross9150]

@@pampero94 Unfortunately Phil's illness made him hard to help. He had loving family and friends who tried. He was like a bright comet that briefly lights the sky.

[@maryhyland]

He had a strange way of showing it.

[@olafsrensen9578]

Ochs was in front of everybody politicalwise.He looked through the U.S and discribed the system so great.

[@lillfocker345]

Years after his death, it was revealed that the FBI had a file of nearly 500 pages on Ochs. Much of the information in those files relates to his association with counterculture figures, protest organizers, musicians, and other people described by the FBI as "subversive". The FBI was often sloppy in collecting information on Ochs: his name was frequently misspelled "Oakes" in their files, and they continued to consider him "potentially dangerous" after his death. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Ochs#Decline_and_death

[@timeriderx]

You see the path this is taking Lill? Much of the pressures on Phil were from the the government's dark side.It would seem they celebrated his demise as we were crying.......

[@juless3568]

The songs of Phil Ochs will always be relevant.

[@return2innocence221]

V interesting

[@emsleywyatt3400]

"and they continued to consider him "potentially dangerous" after his death. That's 'cuz he IS.

[@stelladonaconfredobutler9459]

OMG Phil and John xoxoxox

[@SuperAnimelover100]

Totally Cool to hear .

[@solidaritytime3650]

Damn. I never knew they played together. Imagine, greatest songwriter of all-time And also John Lennon

[@Hannah-ub7nn]

Hahahhahahahah

[@d.c.8828]

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[@lindagoldstein846]

WOW!! LOVE THEM BOTH So amazed John was a fan. Just found this. .

[@SeannachyMcPoet]

Usta be the AV guy at Hunter in the late 60's. Met the best of them. Shud write a book. G'Bless.

[@danielwasserman4992]

I worked there (on the 6th floor) in the early 70's. Jim West ran the department. I remember Ed was the assistant director and Bob Ross was the technician.

[@talileali]

This song eerily predicts the fate of both!! AMAZING!!

[@paulc5358]

Wow I never heard this Thank for posting!! This is great wonder if there is any more

[@troygaspard6732]

Thank you for posting this . Such an intimate chat before the song.

[@patriciathewisher2315]

Love this. One of the first songs of Phil’s I heard back in maybe 89

[@nbenefiel]

I met Phil Ochs when I was 16 at a rally for Gene McCarthy. I worked on his campaign mainly making phone calls. I went to a lot of demonstrations in the 60’s. Phil was always there, usually playing for free.

[@patriciathewisher2315]

@@nbenefiel wow ❤️

[@jaredf921]

Wow, what wonderful audio and discussion!

[@gjs9366]

Both are missed. Thx for posting.

[@operationnocontrol551]

Wow

[@SidYiddish]

fantastic! just fantastic! wish there was more stuff like this out there

[@PianoMeSasha]

wow, had no idea lennon and ochs hung out together; makes you love lennon even more, and sad about dylan's unneccessary attitude.

[@wbworkout]

Wow, rare indeed.

[@victhpooh1]

is there a video of this anywhere? It would be awesome to watch this

[@waexeaw]

This would make a great "record store day" 7 inch. Record industry?

[@sherrih.2693]

Wow!!

[@johnboyce7993]

So sad, of course Lennon found out four years after Ochs, how sad.

[@leesanna7835]

I'm guessin', New York 1971

[@524sbth]

Great!!

[@Krutponken]

@poetmonk I wouldn't be suprised if there was. I'm sure there's some bootleg floating around out there, somewhere.

[@return2innocence221]

Nice little raw recording ☮️💞

[@joshuarubin1858]

There is a meetup of older musicians at the Elk Lodge zwendsday around 10 O’clock near Diamond Head some of the ladies knew Duke Kahanamoku they are in their nineties but do a great Hula and are very competent musicians. I brought my uke and they let me in to strum along.

[@magogae]

it's a pity you can find this material only in bootleg....why don't put inside dvd US Vs Lennon?

[@RETROVIDEO87]

very unusual musician...he had such a talent for fusing political issues with folk music in a hard, grainy manner with just a bit humor and sarcasm. None of his piers could do it in the same way. A lot of people didn't want to hear about it in the lyrics of their music so I suppose that's why he never rose to huge fame. He didn't sing love songs..he sang about issues that affected everybody.

[@mikeo3709]

try checking out changes by phil ochs okie for a 'love song' by him

[@marysalvi242]

@@mikeo3709 Yes..."sit by my side come as close as the air" first line 💖 Oh shoot, these comments are years old, I have to revive them and post in the beginning. One cannot be so passionate about life and dismiss parts of it, he chose to share and hope to change the dark side of human nature. That was his nature and he had to follow his heart.

[@danrozful]

Cecilia is a love song

[@margaretross9150]

I've been listening to Phil since I was 14 in 1964. I now realize Phil was a brilliant all-round musician, not just the brave political commentator I thought of him then.

[@nighthawk292]

@@danrozful Celia. Cecilia is Simon and Garfunkel.

[@SamHusseini]

Great. Thanks for posting. What year? I'm figuring this influenced Lennon in writing "Fame" with Bowie.

[@sunriseRISE]

nothing to do with it ---lennon was into the disco song -''shame shame shame

[@chortkoffandriggio]

And Phil is teaching John about American folk music! Phil wrote it! Why is he telling John it's public domain? Love Phils voice and melodies. It's John Hardy or Tom Joad? I am confused. Maybe they are talking about a different song in the beginning? There is a slower Marianne Faithfull cover of this that I love.

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

like a night that keeps u p ;

[@PianoMeSasha]

does anyone know is Lennon playing the slide on this?

[@taxisteve929]

Pallathur1917 Yes it is. Definitely Lennon's style, not quite as clean as George's, a little edgy, and definitely very proficient, even when playing with a shotgun shell, 100% Yes. And later, Abbie Hoffman adds a drum beat. Took place in an Ann Arbor Michigan hotel room in 1971.

[@commiechu]

Who is the third voice? Hoffmann?

[@jdorchen]

He was in great voice and chops. When was this?

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

1971

[@mkarlsson8423]

🙏

[@tjcassidy2694]

When was this?

[@RonTomsett]

1st got to know this song through Melanie's slow version, and became an Ochs fan immediately. Is there a slow version by Ochs available ANYWHERE? One review of Ochs' only recording I know complains about "a strange bluegrass version".

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

have word on your life mans songs

[@eytonshalom]

my god, phil must of been pretty excited....john sounds so sweet...is lennon playing slide?

[@CaptainPickalot]

Didn't Phil also attend Oberlin College ?

[@n8tyner]

He attended Ohio State University; left during his senior year for New York City.

[@RonTomsett]

(Probably mentioned elsewhere, this is a very popular subject) Before Ohio State, Staunton Military College (!)

[@timeriderx]

Look outside your window..................

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

on ambian hill that day kr iii was breathing his last breaths in his mortal domain drank from the well and a letter to twist gut is all that he had left i can see when he went wrong he saw it but thought he would deny it

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

what man can say

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

live free

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

i am brit usa is the way

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

jon ding ding

[@Dan_Frechette_Songwriter]

Sounds like Lennon just came from the “For You Blue” slide session

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

he lived he broke the guitar

[@pampero94]

They should have record something for real

[@robertpond4919]

A warning to the guy it was about

[@punagurl8]

It seems that Dylan wrapped up both of these oh-so-talented men (especially true of Ochs) in one neat little bloody rolled up package. "Is there anybody here" who even thinks of what Dylan was trying to accomplish in "Tempest?"

[@rosiekyle8161]

Dylan was/is more talented than any of these guys could ever dream to be.....so what is ur point here?

[@truePlasmarift]

rosie kyle Yours is one opinion among many unspoken and is kind of rude considering Ochs music carries more truth and value than Dylans. Dylan went from writing political songs to writing personal stuff, songs which people still don't understand (and I bet he doesn't understand them completely either) and hasn't stopped writing personal stuff. I like them both, but Och's music touched on subjects that needed attention and he did it in brilliant ways.

[@punagurl8]

Plasma Rift Apparently rosie kyle didn't understand my point. Hopefully she'll understand yours. I agree with you completely and did not write back to rosie kyle because I'm tired of wasting my time debating anyone who simply spews out an uninformed opinion. Rosie, you exist in that universe of people who don't realize the genius of Phil Ochs. Though Dylan's written some classic songs, many of which I love, Phil Ochs has it all over Dylan when it comes to social consciousness. Ochs actually took all the risks for his beliefs. Dylan was/is no activist. He played it safe because that's the way you make $$$$ in the music industry. I appreciate much of what Dylan has written but he's never even come close to Ochs in either intellect or in courage.

[@LonelyAtTheTop79]

rosie kyle You're nuts. Dylan's most lauded work is heavily indebted to the rock music Lennon wrote with the Beatles

[@LonelyAtTheTop79]

I don't fault Dylan for doing what he did at all, but I was contesting the idea that he was more talented than Lennon or even Ochs. While lyrically innovative and a fresh presentation of "folk" music, his three rock albums are stylistically the same kind of music (pop, rock n roll, 12 bar blues) the Beatles or the Rolling Stones were releasing. As far as I'm concerned, Blonde on Blonde was basically him admitting his deep appreciation and musical subordinance to those two bands. I'm sure even he would admit as much, considering the direction he would take on the following releases. I wasn't saying that he aped them, but I highly doubt Dylan wouldve started playing rock music had he not been wowed by the stuff they were putting out and been witnessing the impact it was having on popular music. That was his license to finally break away from the folk establishment and succeed on his own terms. He made records that were great as rock and folk music, and hit a cultural zeitgeist with them. However, the musical approach itself really isn't as revolutionary as people like rosie kyle would have you believe, and I definitely do not see any reason to hold him to a higher esteem compared to Ochs or Lennon. From a songwriting standpoint he was never at the level that Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, or Brian Wilson was in the 60s. He also never made anything as great and emotionally resonant as Pleasures of the Harbor.

[@sellincourtrd]

Both closely surveilled by the FBI ..

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

a long life of getting rid of crap for a happy future

[@patriciathewisher2315]

So that’s Lennon.

[@michaelhoffman5486]

the 2 kings holyshit just effen wow words can not express the feelings the unmitigated best most message filled lyricists musicians humans

[@thesce12]

John Lennon is Nicer than Bob Dylan to Phil Ochs. Once again, the English have proven their superiority.

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

horse hair wig jinner horsy

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

tradish

[@anthonygomes4364]

suddenly john lennon just arrives with yoko in a rolls royce demanding his royalty rights from a down and out folk singer who can barely afford a bottle of gallo. imagine that.

[@PianoMeSasha]

what are you on about? sure does not sound like that....

[@janieg2u]

Where in the world did you come up with THAT?!?! A statement like that is insulting to both Ochs & Lennon AND their memories...

[@Amberrogers]

Sounds like what happened between John Lennon (and Yoko) and Frank Zappa.

[@andrealanzillotta4388]

@@janieg2u it's a joke man

[@patriciathewisher2315]

Wow