Phil Ochs trolling Bob Dylan compilation

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I can’t believe I have to say this, but Phil and Bob were friends and the admiration Phil had for Dylan greatly overshadowed this lighthearted ribbing I’ve compiled here. If you’re offended by anything in this video, I can assure you that Dylan said worse things about Phil *to his face* and Phil still spoke highly of Dylan more often than not. This compilation is just a bit of fun. Peace.

[@thomaswarford2920]

It's my understanding that Phil believed Dylan had sold his soul and become one of his "masters of war". Seams reasonable to me. Many felt that way from the time Dylan took the 1965 Newport Folk Festival electric.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

​@@thomaswarford2920 you'd be incorrect in believing that. Phil supported Dylan wholeheartedly in the wake of Newport 65 and implying otherwise does him a huge disservice. Phil wrote in the Village Voice: “Because of the nature of Bobby Dylan’s songs and mine, I am periodically being used as ammunition against him. He is erratic while I am normal, he has forsaken his principles while I’m dedicated to the cause, etc. But it ain’t me, babe…Dylan and I are not in competition with each other, we’re in competition with our individual creative processes, trying to stimulate our minds to produce the greatest amount of quality we can. I can’t emphasize strongly enough that there must be no shackles put on any writer to force him to cover certain subject material or use certain styles...The people that thought they were booing Dylan were in reality only booing themselves in a most vulgar display of unthinking mob censorship. Meanwhile, life went on all around them.”

[@nyxaerospace4319]

Where is the tambourine man clip from?

[@oppothumbs1]

Best Ochs songs 1 Changes 2 Tape from California Jazzy cool psychedelic sound 3 Flower Lady Exponential poignancy. Baroquian 4 When I'm Gone 5 Cross my Heart. orchestration makes this song 6 The Marines have landed on the shores of Santo Domingo 7 Ringing of Revolution Akin to Charles Dickens' "Great Expectations". lyrics written, they say, in about 15 mins or so. 8 That was the President Here's a memory to share, here's a memory to fade. 9 Another Age 10 Too Many Martyrs 11 Half a century High Eerie, playful and soars and pours from Phil's unconscious. quarter of a century old; half a century high. Best Dylan songs: 1 Like A Rolling Stone 2. Positively 4th Street 3. Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands 4. Stuck inside of Mobile .. 5. Subterranean Homesick Blues 6 I Shall Be Released 7 My Back Pages 8 You're a Big Girl Now 9. Tangled Up in Blue 10 Most Likely to Go your way and I'll go Mine 11. Blowin in the Wind

[@marinadeboeck2003]

it's great to see boyfriends supporting each other #loveislove

[@imgonnasayitnow]

HELP 😭

[@tvviewer4500]

dylan never play any ochs songs

[@donovynu5130]

@@tvviewer4500he’s a tsundere

[@tonys9102]

Glad to see you included that second chorus in "The Doll House," a very funny moment in a disturbing song. I interviewed the pianist on Phil's records, Lincoln Mayorga, who gave me a bit of backstory on how they came up with his parts -- and how disturbed Phil was getting at the time.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

How’d you reach Lincoln for an interview? I’ve been trying to get him on my podcast

[@tonys9102]

@@imgonnasayitnow I don't remember. I think he had a Website. This was 2005. I was also working as an arts/entertainment reporter for a newspaper then, so I might have chanced across someone who did PR for him.

[@TXcosmos]

Phil never had any mean bones in his body. Dylan was the one who get pissed off in little things. Phil was only speaking his free mind but was always very supportive of his friend Dylan. Can’t believe Dylan kicked Phil out of cab they were in together. It was a mental health Phil suffered with through his life. I loved him then and even now how I wish he was here with us speaking his mind about everything. Brilliant mind, beautiful soul, so much we’ve lost. Dylan? Great he is still with us.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I’m glad you understand that Phil was kind. Everything in this compilation is SO tame and obvious friendly ribbing.

[@retriever19golden55]

I'll never understand why Phil didn't get more attention. He was a terrific songwriter, had a great voice (something no one could ever accuse Dylan of), was a more dynamic performer, and much better looking, besides. He deserves more attention these days.

[@marysalvi242]

@Retriever19 Golden Well first off I personally do not care about the voice, I mean take Joe Cocker for instance, what makes a piece of music that is sung is the feeling, the singer truly relating to the lyrics. I believe both Ochs & Dylan both did that though imo, Dylan became more "Dylan" and the quote, who cares or more to the point, Dylan may have had his opinion, though Ochs was a poet all through his life. I believe this to be true when I was 18 years old and today at 72 years old ~

[@retriever19golden55]

@@marysalvi242 I think some of Dylan's work was heartfelt and iconic, for sure...but I've always felt that some was just inscrutable on purpose, to be clever. All of Phil's was heartfelt and important. Maybe that would have changed a little if he'd had a long life...sadly, we'll never know.

[@marysalvi242]

@@retriever19golden55 💯% agree ~ I heard of Dylan first, fell in love with at the time the "deep mysterious MUST mean something" lyrics he gave those of us trying to find ourselves, and not caring or, caring that he, Dylan is giving it to the authorities etc. All of Dylan came across as hip and he made use of it or yeah, young too, and then Och's comes into the picture with this straight on no hidden meanings - straight to the point giving his all to the issues. What is sad is Phil's inner world - he could not pull away to rest his mind body and spirit. Dylan and Ochs two sides of the same coin, I suppose. Just a philosophical if even that, Ochs had the side that surely would burn out anyone - peace, light and love to you ~ hope your safe and healthy. to all who speak out, right? 💖☮

[@Elayman1]

Dylan became an overnight success initially because of his voice and a style that makes poetry with his musical voice, his performances. I don't even think there is room for disagreement. Ochs distinguishes himself by being a much better poet in terms of compositional technique both on paper and in concert. I also concur with Judy Henske that Ochs is more intellectual and maybe (MAYBE) Dylan having a more common person touch. But I really do listen to them both so don't want to get into this too much...

[@Elayman1]

@@eddiewinters7184 Phil even said himself that Dylan stopped the criticism after Changes, at least temporarily. I can easily imagine him rubbing in the end but not with regard to the music (and to be fair a sickness that wasn't understood well at all).

[@jeremymr]

Such a missed opportunity to use the pic of Phil smiling next to a grave with the name "Zimmerman" on it haha...

[@elizabethscott9186]

Hilarious! I hadn't heard half of the sections in this compilation, good find.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

haha, thank you!

[@shuddupeyaface]

"John Wayne plays Lyndon Johnson" ! Thanks for that Phil

[@jacobforrester9827]

Phil seems to be that ornery kind of friend who's shenanigans make you question what kind of look to give him.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I’d kill to hang out with him, I’m sure he was a lot of fun

[@darkriot22]

My favorite musician ever!

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Mine too!

[@gillygil8747]

Bob? Phil? Room for both? Yeah.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Gil it’s just a funny video

[@monoped8437]

throwing zappa in at the end was cute

[@imgonnasayitnow]

hahaha thank you

[@cptnbeefart]

hey, hey its great to be here, people are much groovier in england, hey .. He is my best friend

[@tvviewer4500]

You mean phil ochs being obsessed with bob dylan

[@imgonnasayitnow]

yeah he loved him a great deal.

[@Elayman1]

The verse in Dollhouse I'm pretty sure is because that is the kind of music Dylan had always been encouraging him to play from the more political days of early '60's. Not that it really matters much....Bob of course is the biggest troll of all (trolling the public). :)

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Well, Pleasures of the Harbor (the album) was Phil’s big departure into more introspective stuff. I take The Doll House as Phil trying to write like Dylan because it’s a little different from his usual style

[@Elayman1]

@@imgonnasayitnow I have a theory why it is where it is on Rehearsals for Retirement which probably doesn't mean much since I'm not sure when it was written but there is humor for sure in the layers of meaning (deepest feelings, "finding oneself," meaning of life which Dylan criticized him for not concentrating on before, although he didn't really himself either going from a whorehouse to Camelot and finally the Dylan name dropping. I'm sure that Dylan got it, as he did all of Phil's work, although he would never admit it publicly.

[@6thwatergateplumber]

Here's my two cents. I've always wondered if PO was always a bit jealous to BD's command of so much attention. It may have been some part of a contributing component to his depression later on in his life. As for the differences between the two it should be pretty clear that PO was a true protest singer. BD was not. The words in many of PO's songs were far more pointed, and direct. How is anyone gonna feel bad about "how many times must the cannon balls fly" versus "We're hairy and horny and ready to shack We don't care if you're yellow or black Just take off your clothes and lie down on your back 'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys We're the Cops of the World" Kind of easy to see which one is going to appeal to a far wider audience.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Everyone in the scene was a bit envious of Dylan’s stardom. Phil really loved Dylan, though, and wanted him to succeed

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Then of course, Phil had songs that had potential to reach a wider audience, like Changes or There but for Fortune

[@howard5992]

Your observations seem pretty accurate. They both came to NYC at the same time and they were both greatly impressed by each other (as singer songer writers). They had a friendship. But Dylan was somewaht notorious for taking inspiration from others (in a way, stealing). While that was also part of the "folk tradition" in general there was some ill-will in the NYC "folk community" because of it. Dylan quickly became a star and then a super star. He also, as you noted, moved away from political topics and into sometimes ludicurious lyrical areas (which were easy to mock). Dylan aslo, of course, moved away from folk music. There were reasons to be jealous and also a bit bitter simply because of the heights that Dylan rose to.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

@@howard5992 Phil really didn't display too much animosity for Dylan, even after they fell out. Considering everything, he was a pretty good sport.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

@Ryan McCreedy Phil cared about what he was saying, but he absolutely wanted to be famous. He just refused to a abandon his principles.

[@donquixote812]

You punch up not down. That's all it is, a little provocation is all in good fun, if you are punching up, not down.

[@Elayman1]

Fascinating. Did he ever cover Dylan seriously ? Lay down your weary tune is the only one I know.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

there’s a recording out there from really close to the end of his life singing “knocking on heaven’s door” but I have yet to hear it

[@Ge_Stern]

Dylan has the song "Remember me", which is a cover itself of an old 1930's song. And Phil Ochs wrote unreleased one with the same title and very similar melody, but it has radically different lyrics. It was released only after his death on "The Broadside tapes". Dylan's "Remember me": kzbin.info/www/bejne/m57LqKp5ib-las0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/epSraWtolNqNpq8 Ochs' "Remember me": kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIGnqYywqZpknqc

[@ehhh2547]

What a legend haha

[@ZOOTSUITBEATNICK1]

I enjoy the music and leave their private lives to them. Both guys were and are well worth listening to...imo

[@imgonnasayitnow]

it’s just a funny video, it’s not about any kind of minor conflict they had, Phil is just being his silly self

[@Rockofellr112]

I wanna hear more about what he believed like talking

[@imgonnasayitnow]

@@Rockofellr112 I have a couple interviews uploaded

[@donovynu5130]

phil ochs talking to broadside magazine volume 11

[@DonnaMartinez-t7r]

I love Dylan & I adore Phil Ochs (such great talent, beautiful voice) A shame to have lost Ochs so young. The music, I primarily listen to is Bob, Dylan, The, Band, and Phil Ochs. My brothers read a lot of their books and love their music as well. But I never heard that there was any kind of rivalry between Bob Dylan and Phil Ochs. In Phils songs, any time he mentioned, Dylan, I thought it was just being comical. I’m disappointed with what I just learned from you.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I would read my pinned comment. Phil loved and admired Bob a ton, this is just a collection of little jokes he made.

[@shuddupeyaface]

What a tangled mess. Very sad. Dylan had a lot of nerve. Sad.

[@cathyortiz1280]

I loved Phil even more than Dylan.

[@zah936]

wow

[@DannyRoseOfficial]

Haha great stuff

[@PinkPants]

I didn't know Phil wrote song about a Bobby Dylan Record

[@imgonnasayitnow]

yes, it’s from an early demo session! very cute song.

[@Hannah-ub7nn]

What is the song in 3:17

[@imgonnasayitnow]

the doll house!

[@summerof67]

Does anyone know the song at 3:08?

[@imgonnasayitnow]

it’s called The Doll House, from Rehearsals for Retirement

[@summerof67]

@@imgonnasayitnow thank you

[@Hi_Brien]

I'd like to know Dylan's opinion of Phil, I know they had a falling out and Phil was a good sport about it. Dylan seems like a different beast all together though. I wonder how long he even remembered Phil.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Dylan will play Phil’s music on his radio show on occasion but little more than that

[@EPA18]

Dylan considered Phil Ochs a journalist rather than a folksinger.

[@Hi_Brien]

@@EPA18 a journalist who sang haha. Honestly maybe a more accurate take on him. Calling him a singer carries over the wrong baggage

[@f.w.2054]

Heard Dylan was really shook up over Phil's suicide.

[@shuddupeyaface]

I think DylN coming from a working-class community rendered him informed, rather than brought-up to be. Though, that's no excuse for any cruelty. Xml

[@davidenfiladissa9900]

Puta Dylan. Visca Baez !!

[@padraiggillon]

Talent-wise, Dylan couldn't hold a candle to Phil. But Dylan was way more savvy. And lucky.

[@bensnell8247]

Thank Joan Baez and Columbia. Does not take away from the greatness in his music though. Comparing phill and Dylan is like apples and oranges, Dylan was definitely more cocky and a dick though

[@jorgejohnson451]

I’m a huge fan of Dylan’s recordings. This is pretty funny. They say parody is a form of flattery. I think trolling is probably more like it. It can also be destructive to the creative process. So I can see this desire to split.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

Phil adored Dylan.

[@EliLevMusic]

Thx for uploading. If you have time come check out my cover of Fleetwood Mac - I'm a singer/songwriter and think you might dig my sound. Really appreciate it!

[@ThomasDeLello]

Bob Dylan lived rent free in Phil Ochs' head for a long time.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

if your good friend who was in the same line of work as you was suddenly a superstar, would they not be on your mind on occasion?

[@krisscanlon4051]

Funny one but tough since Bob made it BIG out of the rest in the Village.

[@danfate6862]

Dylan is the best. Stop.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

oh, however will Bob Dylan recover from some light jokes his friend made over 50 years ago? 😢 Thank you Dan, for coming to Dylan’s rescue. I hope he sees this ♥️

[@keithwigley1256]

Only difference between the two .. Phil Ochs was believable and really suffered for his Art..

[@EPA18]

That's a totally false assessment.

[@maggiebryan2355]

Think he was showing a little of the green eyed monster

[@donovynu5130]

im no professional but i tjink he might. possibly have been a bit 🏳️‍🌈 ? usually when youre envious of someone you dont compare them to god….

[@raybrizzi5518]

So many people back then were one trick ponies. How long can you keep protesting without changing your style and growing as a musician and songwriter? Dylan said what he had to say and moved on into other areas. Phil was like Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis, they did one thing well but never moved on. The exception might have been Buddy Holly, because he was experimenting with more complex arrangements and was still very young. People get tired of protest after awhile and want to move onto the rest of life, which Phil never got. He was looking in the rear view mirror for Dylan, but he was already miles ahead.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I can’t even begin to quantify how incorrect you are. Phil did not do solely protest music. But good on you for regurgitating the popular narrative

[@al.m765]

Phil started moving away from protest music around 65-66. He experimented with many styles and instrumentation on his last 4 studio albums, which combined have only a few protest songs. Phil's fans were the ones who wanted him to stick to doing one thing, I'd say some of the shit he pulled off in front of his audience was pretty brave (Gunfight at Carnegie Hall and Greatest Hits come to mind). You really should learn more about an artist before making assumptions about them.

[@bensnell8247]

Dylan treated Joan Baez like shit, she was the one who brought him on stage in the U.S. When he went to the U.K with her he didn’t even let her play. He used his popularity with protest songs and didn’t care about it after the fame. He built his ego so high he forgot what he was writing about and about the people who got him there. The hate he got was deserved. Does not take away from the songs he wrote before and after that change but gloating about how much better Dylan was is wrong.

[@PeanutSpring3]

I am just so floored by how wrong you are. But I appreciate the Buddy Holly respect.

[@f.w.2054]

Pleasures of the Harbour, Rehearsals for Retirement, Tape from California, and Greatest Hits totally refute what you've just said! Give them a listen and you'll hear much more than political journalism.

[@CarShowCrazycom]

Sad that such a great talent had such a negative vibe. Jealousy may have been part of his mental health problems and ultimate suicide at age 35 in 1976. Dylan was also 35 in 1976 but went on to record 23 more albums (so far). appear at over 4,500 concerts (so far), and win a Nobel Prize since then. Folk singer Liam Clancy once told Dylan, "No fear, no jealousy, no meanness.” It's tragic Ochs didn't overhear that bit of advice.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

I didn’t think I’d have to point out that Dylan was such a horrific bully that this gentle ribbing on Phil’s part is tame by comparison, but here we are. Dylan treated Phil like garbage, Phil admired Bob greatly and stepped up to defend him when he switched up his style. You completely misunderstand their dynamic. Please do more research before making assumptions. Phil was a kind man.

[@CarShowCrazycom]

@@imgonnasayitnow With respect Tori, I discovered Woody Guthrie in 1959 and consumed all the greats (Seeger, Lee Hays. Cisco Houston. Odetta, Von Ronk, Leadbelly, Ochs, Tracy Chapman, Baez) and so many more well-known and ubscure. That long chain is how found Dylan in '62. I may understand more about their dynamic than you think. In 1965, Dylan had the class to tell a reporter: "I just can't keep up with Phil. And he just keeps getting better and better and better." From your video compilation (and from printed statements when he was alive), we see for ourselves that Ochs was envious and unkind in his remarks about Dylan. As I said, I think Ochs was a great talent. No meaness is required.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

@@CarShowCrazycomhe actually said that in 1964, long before their falling out. It’s in the liner notes to Phil’s first record. He also told Phil he should find another line of work, that he was a journalist, not a writer. Ask Tom Paxton, ask Sam Hood, ask Erik Jacobsen, ask anyone who knew both of them. I’ve researched Phil and his relationship to Dylan extensively and I know what I’m talking about.

[@CarShowCrazycom]

@@imgonnasayitnow I'm glad you're so passionate about Ochs. But Dylan didn't say that in 1964 so that anyone heard. It became public in this article: Dallas, Karl (November 27, 1965). "Dylan Said It-'I Can't Keep Up With Phil'". Melody Maker. p. 10. Likewise, Dylan did say to Ochs, ""You're not a folksinger. You're a journalist." But the fact is, Ochs studied journalism at Ohio State and called himself a "singing journalist." See Buckley, Peter (2003). The Rough Guide to Rock: The Definitive Guide to More Than 1200 Artists and Bands (3 ed.). London: Rough Guides. p. 742. Ochs' first album was called, "All the News That's Fit to Sing" (1964) for goodness sake. No mystery there about what he was doing, right? So maybe Dylan wasn't slamming him as you think. Maybe it was just an observation about Ochs lack of subject matter depth. His peers--including his Leftist peers--did not invite Ochs to the the Newport Folk Festival in 1965, even though he was there in '63 and '64. That speaks volumes about what those who supposedly loved him the most really thought about him, I'd say. No, I'm not slamming Ochs in any way. "No fear, no jealousy, no meanness.” Ochs life was a tragic story and we should all be saddened by it. But making Dylan the bad guy? That's wrong.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

@@CarShowCrazycom he absolutely did say it in 1964, it is in the liner notes to All the News. I should know, I have the record.

[@marcellevesque2442]

A preview of internet trolls...nothing to add, so just denigrate.

[@imgonnasayitnow]

You really don’t know anything about Phil’s relationship with Bob, do you?