⁴ᴷ⁶⁰ Philadelphia MFL Line Front Window View - B Skip Stops from 69th Street to Frankford

[@prettirikki69]

Was with Septa 33 yrs and that eastbound sunrise never got old..i was going through the acceleration and braking LOL...haven't rode Septa since I retired...

[@MMitchellMarmel]

0:45 If you look to your left, you can see the remains of the NHSL's interchange with the PRR. 8:21 While the new El structure is nice, I kinda miss the old stub where the El used to go all the way to 24th St. The current tunnel was completed in 1955, and the El structure from 24th St. to 45th St. demolished. 9:45 Off to your right, tunnel stubs for a never-built Southwest Philly El. 13:55 This stretch of the tunnel runs under the Schuylkill River and must constantly be pumped dry. During WWII, the unfinished tunnel was allowed to flood, discouraging would-be saboteurs. 15:40 I've been told that this stretch of the MFSE was filmed as a stand-in for the NYC subway for the original "Taking of Pelham 123". I've never been able to prove it one way or the other... :) 21:15 This curve was reworked to accommodate I-95 construction in the 1990s. The original Fairmount station was replaced by the Spring Garden station at that time. They did stress testing on the 1918 vintage El structure, only to find it was nearly as strong than as-built. 21:54 The approximate location of the original El portal. In 1908, the track made a U-turn to the right and headed south along Delaware Avenue to serve the Pennsylvania Railroad and Reading Railroad ferries. The line continuing to Frankford was not completed until after WW1. Ferry service would continue until the Ben Franklin Bridge made the ferries obsolete. The El on Delaware Avenue was demolshed in the late 1930s. 24:25 Return to the original Frankford El alignment. 25:30 While the original 1907 Market Street Elevated from 24th to 63rd Sts. straddled Market Street, the 1919 Frankford El was constructed on cantilevered pillars in the middle of Front Street, turning onto Frankford Avenue.

[@rawvision6701]

Great information

[@MMitchellMarmel]

@@rawvision6701 Glad to be of assistance! :D

[@WaltGekko]

Where would that EL have gone to?

[@MMitchellMarmel]

@@WaltGekko The Southwest Philly El? Along Woodland Avenue to Chester or thereabouts.

[@novus201]

@@MMitchellMarmel Would it have replaced a trolley line?

[@marcussmith1338]

Takes me back to my teenage years. Riding to every corner of the city.

[@JoseTwitterFan]

Took a joyride on both the MFL and BSL during my day-long visit to Philly last January, and yes, I also traversed through the Broad-Ridge Spur (just not the PATCO Speedline due to time constraints though, sadly).

[@tomryan943]

Glad you put the names of the stations on the screen. It would be great if you could do this on your videos of the NYC transit. Some of us don't ride every line in the city. This was a great video! It seems that most of .the line is pretty straight.

[@glint3924]

I like the sound it makes when it moves and stops.

[@rikudousennin938]

Its the same sound like the Berlin subway

[@dirkscholtyssek3359]

Yes, thats the same technic like in Berlin, because this Philadelphia trains are build in Germany by ABB Daimler Benz transportation systems, ( short ADtrans ).@@rikudousennin938

[@Twinsdad6]

Thanks for posting! Rode this for a number of years back in the 70's from 69th to K&A. I usually fell asleep in the mornings after leaving 69th St and woke up when it made the turn to head north. K&A wasn't nearly as bad then as it is now.

[@spclanghorne4494]

I just realized that all of the north Philly stations, between 26:00 and 32:00, are named after counties in PA. Berks, York-Dauphin, Huntington, Somerset, Allegheny, Tioga and Erie (Torresdale).

[@yesec9]

Also, they are the names of the cross-streets near each station

[@leseanmccoy995]

I’ve been going on this train since I was a baby

[@geardd]

same lol

[@PauliePinch13]

Same.

[@georgeronn1263]

Grew up in Frankford back in the 50’s and 60’s. Great neighborhood then, not so much now. Interesting trivia bit: all the double crossover you see periodically, we’re single crossovers before the line was rebuilt back in the 90’s. If they were working on one of the lines and the train had to use the other track, then the train had pull past the crossover, back up over to the other track, then proceed forward. This was a real time consuming move.

[@yvonneplant9434]

Fishtown is thriving but that's about it. It's very sad and heartbreaking. Nothing in W. Philly matches the drug nightmare in Kensington.

[@jerrodsix545]

Thanks so much for this video! I ride this line from 5th street to 40th street and back when I visit my doctor. I've only been as far as Frankfort 1 time, so it was interesting to see the line from start to finish. Thanks again for this surprise!

[@metrorailfan2334]

Wow these trains have very fast acceleration

[@landocalrisian2014]

They REALLY do 😯

[@thirdiii94]

philly is such an interesting city

[@theblife.]

If only the trains in nyc had this type of acceleration :(

[@robertschmidt7625]

And SPEED, especially on the express track.

[@Ostermond]

Or smoothness of ride, for that matter.

[@nybone24]

I was just going to say the same thing

[@vincentgerrald8123]

@@robertschmidt7625 come to sf they are pretty fast here

[@CoCo-Philly]

when you can walk to the next station in like a minute it just looks faster. my opinion. I've ridden that A train from Troop Ave in Bk to Far Rockaway and Dilzamn. Our trains don't have as many cars and people so that may play a part also.

[@yaggy9]

fast and smooth with a beautiful sky. great video.

[@hakeemspiveyproductions2001]

Here's something I found out: The Flushing Line and Market-Frankford Line share some of the same station numbers. 69th Street 52nd Street 46th Street 40th Street The Market Frankford Line also shares the name 63rd Street with the Lexington Avenue-63rd Street Station of the IND/BMT 63rd Street Line, and 34th Street with: 34th Street-Herald Square (B)(D)(F)(M)(N)(Q)(R)(W), 34th Street-Penn Station (1)(2)(3)(A)(C)(E) and 34th Street-Hudson Yards (7).

[@kevinhoward9593]

Not many people know that the loop track that the trolleys use at 13th street actually has an area for a second track. its where they used to turn the trains before the line was extended east.

[@TheChicagoL]

Been on many an el and subway in both Chicago and New York. I've never experienced being on a train that accidentally overshot a stop like what happened at 11:55.

[@shamarmays3577]

Them trains don’t have the speed as the L in Philadelphia

[@cploqytb]

I took the el a lot when I grew up in Upper Darby (just W of the city). It was fairly rare but there were occassional overshoots. In the old days the driver held down a buzzer so the conductor (door operator) knew not to open the doors, then they'd give 2 quick buzzes when the train was backed up enough. I occasionally would look out the front. Note the small yellow "O" and "B" signs shortly before many of the stations. I have speculated that this was "off" ie coast, and "brake" but I don't know that this really was so. If B is brake, you can see that they don't brake very far ahead of the station, so you could see how once in awhile they'd overshoot. I seem to remember that the rush hour rate was a train every 2.5 min. , so no time for lollygagging into the station :).

[@GamerRobYT]

It's common on the El, mainly underground at 5th, 8th, 30th and 34th streets since the el goes so fast

[@yesec9]

@@cploqytb oh for sure, during rush hour the headways are tight (I think it's actually 3.5 min, not 2.5 but that's still tight), yeah, they accelerate and brake fast. Frequency was greatly reduced in early 2020 and then they gradually started running more, but it may not be quite back to pre-pandemic rush hour frequency. They also suspended A/B only runs and I don't know if they've been reinstated.

[@yesec9]

@@GamerRobYT ooh yeah between 15th and 30th is a nice straight long run...it's a little hint of the broad street express on the inner tracks as you pass by the trolley stations on the outside...flying past stations is a nice feeling

[@JoseMorales-lw5nt]

27:05 - 27:45/ From what I saw courtesy of another railfanner's video post, this stretch towards York-Dauphin is the area featured in the classic ROCKY film!❤

[@tenfourproductionsllc]

Reminds me of the Blues Brothers movie (which took place in chicago) and you have happen to rent a room or have an apartment right at the rail line, "How often do the trains pass by? So often, you won't even notice it".

[@joedeegan3870]

Well done! Used to take this line to the University of Pennsylvania ,The Palestra (34th Street), Convention Hall where the Warriors of the NBA played in the Wilt Chamberlain days 30th Street station for Commuter Rail lines, City Hall (15th Street)and Olde City (5th Street (Independence Hall).

[@rawvision6701]

Great video - I ride it all the time

[@jackcraig4268]

During their first years here in Philly (1960’s) the 76ers played in Convention Hall but would get “bumped” by other occasions such as the Philly Flower Show. When that happened, the would go the the old “Arena” at 45th and Market. I remember being there in January of 1965 when Wilt Chamberlain made his 76er debut in that run-down place. I would take the El-Subway-El from Frankfort to 45 St. Thanks for posting this video!

[@OnkelJajusBahn]

Really an interresting and beautiful line with great speeds. I love it. Thanks for the video.

[@alancutler6453]

Lived in Phila. for many years yet rarleyt took that line. It was great to ride it again. Well done and interesting,

[@zeideankrah8370]

11:55 Rookie mistake and I’m just curious why some stations have a length of 10 cars compatibility

[@TajmirTheRandomFan]

Welcome back to the market Frankfort line @DJ Hammers. 😎

[@thefullspeedaheadofr160bry9]

dj

[@MysticMTL]

The Montreal subway can't reverse without going through a whole lot of red tape, several supervisors and another operator in the rear getting involved. If the train overruns the station by a door or two they can usually call for an authorization to open the doors partially in the tunnel, but it they overrun by more than that, it causes a delay on the entire line. It happens very rarely since most trains operate in automatic mode, and even in manual mode there is a safety switch that triggers the emergency brake if a train misses the platform, or comes in too hot into the station.

[@ihateregistrationbul]

but yall got them rubber tires. so quiet!

[@spclanghorne4494]

What the conductor did hear isn’t usual on the El either. They probably got a mouthful from their supervisor after this happened.

[@SouloSeriouS]

*I'll miss the a & b service. Was convenient during evening rush hour on weekdays, from center city to 69th street. Hope this helps with crowds!!!!!*

[@spclanghorne4494]

It will probably be back soon once ridership kicks up back to pre covid levels.

[@cszal]

@@spclanghorne4494 SEPTA took it away to alleviate the amount of people waiting at stations. They’ll be keeping away with the skip stops because of the overwhelming amount of riders on the El.

[@BringBackMasculinity1987]

36:50 My home stop, Margaret-Orthodox(Arrott St Terminal)

[@MMitchellMarmel]

Many's the time I did this run at the front of a Budd "Almond Joy" car with the front door window down. Good times, good times.

[@medickdd]

can you tell me whats special about car 622 of the Budd cars?

[@MMitchellMarmel]

@@medickdd Would that be the only one that was actually airconditioned? :)

[@petmitsu]

@Lighthouse in the Storm No. That was car 614.

[@pez334]

Wow it just goes to show how long it’s been since I rode on the market frankford line because I remember when that arrot stop was called Margaret orthodox and the end of the line stop was bridge and Pratt, I moved out of Philly in 2006 but can’t remember last ride on the El was prior to 2006 , when were those changes made? Btw thanks for the memories

[@leatherman88ch]

Wow wow wow in the five years I lived in Philly I never seen an el over shot station this is kind of like a once-in-a-lifetime thing to be reporting

[@calotadaniel5063]

hy , super video quality , nice info , very relaxing and anjoyable ride , this front view are awsome , great experience like that , thank you for sharing with us , keep up .

[@larrymcneil8038]

I drove the el from 2000 til 04 until I transferred to the orange line the only thing I miss is the comfortable operator seat and that it called out the stops plus the in cab signals wasn’t operable yet we still had wayside signals in service then

[@jamesh7167]

Larry McNeil what kind of a whistle is on the M4s? I’ve been trying to figure it out for a while.

[@larrymcneil8038]

James Hartranft thats good question I never knew what type of horn it was all I know is that the horn is push button just like the enable switch on the m4 to open the doors you had to push the enable and door switch at the same time in order to open the doors

[@simonsv9449]

32:57, crossing over the Northeast Corridor. I wonder if ridership would increase if a station would be built here so that people could change from the Trenton Line to the Market-Frankford Line.

[@GamerRobYT]

@@simonsv9449 dont know why there wasn't already a regional rail station there

[@simonsv9449]

@@GamerRobYT Yeah, i think it’s stupid to not have an interchange station there.

[@railfan282]

@@simonsv9449Well you can transfer to all those lines already at 30th Street.

[@paulculler3800]

They never have loudspeakers on the old Almond Joy Cars Also they blew whistles to indicate that the doors are closing on these trains

[@raymondfleming7349]

Back when I ran motor on the CTA "EL" backing up an in service train would get you fired. So, if you overshot, you let the conductor know and then you got out of the cab and protected the door(s) not in the station. That would you get you a meeting with the boss, but you still had a job.

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

There is door controls and the operator press two buttons on the doors that overshot the platform,sometimes only half of the door.

[@thinblacknoodles]

Rode this train heavy between 1994-2002 then moved to NYC and rode the G train heavy lolz

[@Mrosen7542]

I can feel the train stopping and starting and smell the cleaning chemicals in the underground stops.

[@cliffpadilla5871]

You also pass the original American Bandstand TV taping location on this line.

[@MidnightAspec]

For all the times I’ve visited family in Philly, I’ve never once rode the subways there. Great video. I’ve seen/rode on rapid transit systems of many US urban centers and if seems like only NYCTA has nasty stations.

[@spclanghorne4494]

This line has some nasty stations also. 15th street smells like piss.

[@armorpro573]

@@spclanghorne4494 I seen worse

[@tomryan943]

Wow!! Nice underground stations, and it looks pretty clean, compared to some of the stations in NYC. Do you know when it was built??? Damn! Overran the station!! Must be a rookie!! He IS driving pretty fast!! Philly does have a lot of streetcars!! Trolleys??? I remember when I was there a few years ago, they have trolley lines all over, and I did see a trolley hub. Nice clean stations!!

[@cploqytb]

I took the el a lot when I grew up in Upper Darby (just W of the city). It was fairly rare but there were occassional overshoots. In the old days the driver held down a buzzer so the conductor (door operator) knew not to open the doors, then they'd give 2 quick buzzes when the train was backed up enough. I occasionally would look out the front. Note the small yellow "O" and "B" signs shortly before many of the stations. I have speculated that this was "off" ie coast, and "brake" but I don't know that this really was so. If B is brake, you can see that they don't brake very far ahead of the station, so you could see how once in awhile they'd overshoot. I seem to remember that the rush hour rate was a train every 2.5 min. , so no time for lollygagging into the station :). . I read that the NY subways run slower than necessary because they have so many "timer" signals that the operators may get in trouble if they trip. The Phila. EL had few of these (lights that would be red or yellow, only to go green as the train approached). Looked like approaching 46th St., because after that station is the swerve and entry into the tunnel. apporaching 2nd st., because that's a sharp turn and tunnel exit. Westbound (the other way from the video) there were one or more "timer signals" before the big downhill to go under the river, presumably so they didn't get carried away speed wise and blast through 30th St. I assume NY has more slow areas because it's a much more complicated system with trains merging/diverging on different routes.

[@omfgCantGetaUsername]

tom ryan "she"

[@spclanghorne4494]

The line opened in 1907

[@yvonneplant9434]

There are 5 active trolley lines: 10,11, 13, 34 and 36. They run in the tunnel you are seeing in Center City.

[@yvonneplant9434]

​@@spclanghorne4494 Septa did have a big party in 2007 when it turned 100 years old.

[@johngilkinjr.689]

Love going under the Skukill, spelled wrong river

[@PHILLYPHAN5118109]

Doctor: You have exactly 40:50 to live Me:

[@johngilkinjr.689]

Man, Somerset n Allegheny Stations is lk walking into another dimension where zombies rule. What a mess

[@EpicThe112]

The kensington neighborhood UK AUS CDN spelling Neighbourhood home to Temple Uni. Want a safe school then 30th St Upenn or R5 Doylestown-Thorndale/Parkesburg Villanova Uni

[@christopherr.1155]

I wish to see more videos like this but for NYC subways, front view. With the stops on the bottom that will be cool. Is it possible to do ex IRT trains like 2, 4 or 5 !?

[@suitt1]

They have them on yt, just look it up 😁

[@ashtonhelm685]

12:46 i believe thats a Silverliner V up there (correct me if im wrong)

[@YangYang-nl8rl]

Thats trolley, not Silverliner V

[@Bobrogers99]

The window was clean! How did that happen?

[@yvonneplant9434]

Septa does a fantastic job keeping the trains free of graffiti.

[@TBF_1J]

11:52 Train overshooting the station. 💀

[@Kulpythekulpster]

Happens like twice per ride anymore haha

[@carlavision6143]

Really enjoyed your awesome video!

[@alexanderiwanow5146]

This is my happy place. 💙

[@ChikaraGuy]

25:34 the kurt vile murallll

[@benhenderson3037]

I've always wondered the meaning of the alarm tone heard at 7:40 (for example)...is this some sort of overspeed or overcurrent warning? Seems to happen quite frequently and the train operators seem to address it by reducing power momentarily and then returning the power back to where it was.

[@cszal]

I think this is an attention aware notification for the operators, kind of like what they have installed on SEPTA Regional Rail. Instead of a deadman’s handle, they have this, and when the operator hears it, they have to press a button to let the system know they’re aware and awake.

[@uptown215]

Back in the early 90s the L was crazy as a kid lol. The seats were boucy and the lights would flicker on and off

[@johngilkinjr.689]

I'm actually watching this video because as a kid I would run up n my friends n I would fight over looking out the window. I rode the old trains. I'm 52,.. Today,. 2-12-2023,. Eagles are playing the Chiefs in the Superbowl tonight. 7-7 w 2 min to go in 1st quarter. Go Birds

[@bnywtrains9482]

11:54 me playing OpenBVE 😂

[@deanbianco4982]

@Dj Hammers: This subway is much faster than the NYC subway. I wonder why the NYC system can't be as fast. Is there a legit reason for NYC's to be so freakin' S. L. O. W. 🤨 ?

[@justrant]

Dean Bianco Signal system

[@physetermacrocephalus9986]

Interlining

[@cliffpadilla5871]

I haven't been on this line in a long time.

[@blakemcnamara9105]

Weren't those West Philly neighbourhoods really shabby just five years ago?

[@shamarmays3577]

More like 10

[@yesec9]

yeah 52nd st in west philly used to be notorious, it's calmed down lately, (in Southwest Philly around 58th & Woodland, it is the opposite...SW is gripped by deep poverty and violence) plus areas just a few blocks east are now becoming very expensive...I wonder how long the working-class will be able to afford 52nd st area in the future...hopefully gentrification doesn't happen too much/too fast.

[@yvonneplant9434]

Well UPenn has had an enormous impact on all of W. Phila.

[@yvonneplant9434]

​@@yesec9 There won't be any gentrification like you mean on the 52nd St corridor. It would have happened already if it was going to.

[@FelixAn]

Does the flashing green mean that CBTC is active?

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

Yes some Metro’s it different shades of green or green and blue mixed in.

[@thexboxgamer9128]

We here in NYC are lucky to have 4 or 3 tracks on most lines for possible peak or express service. Take the A line it's the longest and has the longest express service.

[@thexboxgamer9128]

@777 MJ Fanmades Videos Sorry to break it too you man... I am not a Philly person. I am a New Yorker, I live in the big metropolis. That is why I said we have 4 or 3 tracks on certain sections of the subway. We have 3 or 4 tracks for 2 express 1 in each direction, and on certain sections 3 tracks can be seen for peak direction express. As well as the 2 outer tracks for local services.

[@mechasonicr160s9]

@@thexboxgamer9128 We do have that just not on this line plus they just got rid of A & B service which was basically this lines express

[@osagiee.guobadia-secondytc4624]

This must not be New York, this is Philadelphia. I am seeing that the trains are a bit different except they are thin trains and not fat full trains like the MTA subway trains are. : 0

[@rehabmax]

I must have been gone a long time from Philadelphia, I was looking for the Margaret-Orthodox station. When did it change to Arrott Transportation Center ?

[@Toxic-hz8sl]

could you make one on bsl

[@storiesincolour5205]

Two island platforms at 30th Street would be really practical.

[@billybaires]

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌👍👍👍👍👍🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 Nice vídeos man !!!!! Love it

[@RedArrow73]

Back in the Almond Joy day 46th was a 'B' stop.

[@stantheman9689]

These trains have great acceleration,, But it seems like they come in too hot into the stations. I guess the brakes aren't as good as the acceleration🤣

[@CtrainytTransit]

4:37 56th Street is where I live

[@thefullspeedaheadofr160bry9]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4i0Z3mfr95-l7s

[@budbundy5021]

That train horn sounds kinda geeky

[@nathanielcoleman5694]

Why did you keep blacking out the video in the underground stations?

[@BottomLin3Op]

They overrun like it’s Christmas on the MFL

[@shamarmays3577]

Trains to fast for the rookie drivers lol 😂

[@paulculler3800]

38:45 There's a train ahead of us As soon as one leaves the Frankford Transportation Center terminal we shall proceed Thahk you for your patience

[@paulculler3800]

Formerly Bridge-Pratt Terminal

[@mr.everything9120]

Why didn't they make it a subway throughout the entire route?

[@GamerRobYT]

The MFL used to be mostly elevated, but the section from 2nd street to 40th street had to be rebuilt underground

[@TRENDSETTERAVENUE]

Reminds me of the A subway line

[@Bassotronics]

9:14 and 9:23 Those trains have the ugliest horn I ever heard. Sounds like it needs oil and a rat exorcist.

[@armorpro573]

Yeah, well they're pretty outdated

[@clintonhaton1056]

What area is best to buy tools and merchandise on the stree i mean?

[@RailfannerMario]

They have CBTC as I see flashing green signals?

[@Sylveonkpopnyct]

Pretty sure that was PTC lol

[@RailfannerMario]

Transit Sylveon Hitomi oh ok 😂

[@deepnation10009]

Surprised you didn't mention Amtrak's N. E. Corridor Line the train crossed over near Tioga Station.

[@RatedRGamer78]

I love this train but nothing is like the broad street line/broad ridge spur

[@pauli6043]

24:25 Carvana vending machine!

[@adenphilipwhite]

I'm from NYC what is the top speed of those trains

[@Boeing747official-invasion]

This was recorded before 2020 skip stop services ended

[@RedArrow73]

The old Fail-Safe block signals made the line discernibly slower than what you see here.

[@adenphilipwhite]

And is the third rail 600v in Philadelphia

[@metro-northrailroadproduct5043]

does that goes to New Jersey

[@shamarmays3577]

No

[@metro-northrailroadproduct5043]

@@shamarmays3577 ok thanks

[@philadelphianexplorer4281]

The pacto highspeed line does

[@metro-northrailroadproduct5043]

@@philadelphianexplorer4281 cool and can i get a sub bacl

[@metro-northrailroadproduct5043]

back

[@RedArrow73]

OK, guys, how many stations WILL NOT hold an 8-car train?

[@EpicThe112]

Like it and speaking of the combined MFL Tram tunnel SEPTA engineers that made that section might have been Sent to West Germany Frankfurt Am Main to help Deutsche Bundesbahn and RMV to build the Konstablerwache Tunnel segment Frankfurt U-Bahn and S-Bahn Rhein Main S8/S9 lines. The latter can use DB BR146.2 111 1440 440 182s at a push former Deutsche Reichsbahn GDR DR BR212 243 211 242s locos through them.

[@gabrielchiodo285]

Why is it so dark, you can't even see the lights of the train

[@DanCohoon]

sadly they ended express trains now the EL makes stops at all stops

[@peppersmith]

What happen to the Westbound side Video🥲AWEsome.. Anyways....

[@LeonMaxton]

14:00 Im a philadelphian and i try not to think about the water.

[@thedukeofswellington1827]

29:45 welcome to hell Death in a bag $5

[@jimpern]

Brings back some memories. What's the deal with the "skip stop" service? It appeared that the train only skipped ONE stop west of Center City!

[@WaltGekko]

They just did away with skip-stop altogether because of major increases in ridership as neighborhoods on the northeast portion of the line that were suffering for years are now being built up considerably. On the west end, the line used to have skips at 34th (B) and 46th (A) but those were done away with years ago as Penn and Drexel expanded.

[@jimpern]

@@WaltGekko The funny thing is that the on-board announcements still said "makes all 'B' stops" as if the program was still in effect.

[@ChikaraGuy]

lol the guy dj posted at kensington & allegheny

[@emeraldkimble7602]

They must have a trains during rush hour

[@jaymorgenthal9479]

This line and Metro North Railroad are the only electric power lines in the US that use under running third rails

[@chesterdwyer4th631]

We take the opposite way to my grandpa job

[@JoeiahHiltion]

Tioga is skipped :(