Philadelphia’s Strange Little Subway Branch | The Broad-Ridge Spur

Philadelphia's transit system is already pretty unique, but today, we are riding the especially unique Broad-Ridge Spur. This branch line runs right underneath Center City, yet it is hardly used. The trains are short - only two cars long - and on the main section of the line, they all run express (but make different stops than the regular express trains). Finally, despite its short length, this spur also has an abandoned station! Curious yet?
Trains Are Awesome!
Rose’s channel: / @spacepeanut
Buy Trains Are Awesome Merch: my-store-f0aaf...
Support us on Patreon: / trainsareawesome
Our Instagram: / tra_channel
Email us: [e-mail]
My second channel: / @thom_extra
Date of filming: March 14, 2024
Camera: iPhone 15

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

The two-car train reminds me of the NYC Subway's Franklin Ave Shuttle! The BMT Franklin Ave Line was once part of the mainline of what's now the BMT Brighton Line. The BMT Franklin Ave Line was originally part of the Brooklyn, Flatbush, and Coney Island Railway, which was created to connect Downtown Brooklyn with Coney Island, and the line opened in 1878. It was connected to the former Fulton Street Elevated in 1896. The BRT acquired it in 1913, and the city gained ownership of the line in 1940. An extension of the D of the IND Division to Coney Island via the Culver Line in 1954 (the D stopped using the Culver Line in 1967 and has used the BMT West End Line to reach Coney Island since 2004) put a dent to the BMT Franklin Ave Line's through service and it became a full-time shuttle in 1963. The BMT Franklin Avenue Line deteriorated so much by 1999 that the MTA considered abandoning the line and shuttle service altogether, but the local community got the NY State Assembly to force the MTA to rebuild, which is why it was rebuilt to be single-tracked in 1999, except for Botanic Garden station which is double-tracked and allows two trains to operate. The shuttle's Park Place is the only station that is served by just a Shuttle service AND the only station to have a single-track that is not a terminal station! The line has four stations but used to have another called Dean Street which closed in 1995. There's a tunnel from 1878 that's just north of the Botanic Garden station that takes the shuttle under Eastern Parkway, and this is the oldest tunnel in the ENTIRE NYC Subway system still in use! Before the Dodgers moved to LA, many people rode the line to Ebbets Field since it was located nearby Prospect Park station! The Malbone Street wreck happened on the line's serpentine layout of track between Botanic Garden and Prospect Park in November 1918, and it caused the deaths of at least 93 people and the BRT to phase out wooden cars. There was a labor strike, and the BRT selected a non-striking crew dispatcher that had NO experience operating the line. The single-track tunnel in which the wreck occurred had been opened only weeks before the accident. The BRT sought to bypass the Franklin Ave route by funneling the Brighton Line through a direct subway route under Flatbush Avenue, a connection that was completed in 1920 and ended its connection with the Fulton Street Elevated, and the construction's new tunnel walls. The "Malbone Street wreck" track is no longer used in regular passenger service as trains use the original straighter tunnel and the northbound Prospect Park platform.

[@hairypotter259]

Philly has so much potential to have a world class transit system

[@Thom-TRA]

Let’s start with a good power wash

[@DanTheCaptain]

A lot of the legacy metro systems in the US have incredible roots and great unbridled potential to become world class systems! They just need funding and a bit of TLC

[@Beansworth1551]

@@Thom-TRA don’t forget new rolling stock

[@Beansworth1551]

@@DanTheCaptain you are very right about that and I think this could also apply to to Baltimore Metro a system that with more expansion could be amazing.

[@artvandelayimports]

As does most major US cities imo

[@thenajb]

As someone who actually lives near Fern Rock TC and was a frequent rider of the Spur to work for over a decade, the train was vital - a lot of offices and the shopping east of city hall found this as a quick way to get downtown without needing to take the BSL to City Hall. Post pandemic definitely changed ridership as a lot of businesses closed. Its peak use is always rush hour. Things may change back as more development happens and people come back to work full time, but it’s still a key line.

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m glad to hear a story of someone who was a regular user!

[@fdm2155]

My first apartment was at 15th and Fairmount. My first job was at 6th and Chestnut. Between the Ridge spur and the route 61 bus, I had great options.

[@videonut1988]

The mall you've walked through was the FASHION DISTRICT, formerly TheGallery at Market East, got remodeled in 2018, the mall originally opened in 1977, with the extension that opened in '84.

[@Thom-TRA]

Correct

As a kid growing up in West Philly, I almost always rode the Market-Frankford line. The Broad Street subway was scarier.

[@fdm2155]

LOL I'm from South Philly so I was used to the subway long before I rode the EL. I remember when the subway cars were rickety green cars that seemed about to fall apart.

[@TransitRailfanner11A]

I was scared cause of the height.

[@HIDLad001]

The B-IVs and the K cars (LRVs) are doing really well despite the fact they are over 40 years old. The M-4s on the Market Frankford line meanwhile are falling apart after only about 25 years. Kawasaki quality!

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m curious to see who will build the new cars for the El

[@HIDLad001]

@@Thom-TRA Me too. SEPTA have already released specifications for them. It’ll probably be Kawasaki or Siemens (those are the best choices as far as quality workmanship goes)

[@Razorgeist]

​@@HIDLad001 I had the same conversation with a coworker. Apparently Septa has to buy the cars from an American company if my reading of the transit grant is correct. So probably no Kawasaki. Which is a shame as while the BSL cars are a little dingy and old their quite reliable and solid.

[@HIDLad001]

@@Razorgeist You mean Buy American Act? Kawasaki already have factories in Yonkers, New York and Lincoln, Nebraska so they already comply with the BAA. If you mean a proper US-based company (one that was established in the US) making rolling stock, than the only option really is Brookville.

[@SigmaRho2922]

@@HIDLad001what about stadler

[@HIDLad001]

The B-IVs also had their propulsion systems upgraded from a GE camshaft resistance control to a Vossloh Kiepe solid state “chopper” control in the 2010s, which vastly increased their reliability. If only NYC did the same to the R62s and R68s…

[@Thom-TRA]

Sometimes maintenance like that can make all the difference

[@HIDLad001]

@@Thom-TRA And it means they can keep the same already reliable DC motors without having to spend lots of money on new ones.

[@peppertree5706]

B-IV cars used to not have automatic announcements . They may not have even had a PS as the B-1 cars had not had a PA.

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

On the LIRR, they name their services as branches! On the Metro-North Railroad in Connecticut, the New Haven Line has the Danbury, Waterbury, and New Canaan Branches! The Danbury Branch runs from downtown Norwalk to Danbury, it opened in 1852 as the Danbury and Norwalk Railroad. Until the early 1970s, passenger service continued north from Danbury to Canaan, Connecticut, and Pittsfield, Massachusetts. The Berkshire ran on the line from Grand Central to Pittsfield between the 1940s and 1968. The route served as a path to country homes of New Yorkers, as well as to towns such as Canaan and New Milford in an area lacking Interstate highways or major airports. In the UK, there's an interesting branch line called the Stourbridge Town branch! It's 1.3 km long and connects Stourbridge Town with Stourbridge Junction! The line was originally constructed in the 1870s (opened for passengers in October 1879 and for freight in January 1880) to provide transshipment with the Stourbridge Town Arm of the Stourbridge Canal but is now solely used for passenger services. Although the branch line was originally double-tracked, after 1935 the two tracks were worked as two parallel single lines, with the non-passenger track used for freight workings beyond the station towards the Stourbridge Basin. The station and branch were listed for closure under the Beeching Axe, but were later delisted in 1965, and the goods branch closed that year too. The 1879 Stourbridge Town station survived mostly intact until February 1979 when it was demolished and the branch cut back by 65 meters, leaving room for a bus station. The branch is known for using Class 139 Parry People Movers, which started using them in the 2000s! Parry People Movers was a small British manufacturer of lightweight railcars that use flywheel energy storage for traction, allowing electric systems to operate without overhead wires or third rails on smaller lines. The flywheel captures the vehicle's kinetic energy when the brakes are used,[9] and re-uses the energy for acceleration. The company built one prototype and two production vehicles, the Class 139, and also designed concepts for trams and other rail technology using alternative fuels such as gas and hydrogen but was not successful in finding further buyers among transport operators. PPM was founded and directed by John Parry, who died in February 2023 and the company was liquidated later that year.

[@Thom-TRA]

Whenever I go to England I know the PPM is at the top of my list of things to do. It’s had that spot for years.

[@rikkichunn8856]

Thank you for shedding light on an unusual little branch of a major subway line in a major city. You answered a lot of the questions I had about the line. Philadelphia is definitely a city I want to visit.

[@Thom-TRA]

Philly is worth a visit! But you’re right, weeding through online information about its transit lines is quite a job.

[@AssBlasster]

@@Thom-TRA When I visited, I just never really understood it and got dickheads at SEPTA booths giving me attitude for trying to ask questions. Even found local news videos pointing out the confusion of SEPTA for visitors lol

[@FerryTerminal68]

The variety of express services really is fascinating! It will be interesting to see how the construction of the Roosevelt Blvd Subway affects SEPTA's operations if it's ever built. Using the spur as the termini for Roosevelt services would be interesting, and could even serve as an opportunity to study expanding service to the south. Even a short extension of the tunnel down S 8th St to E Passyunk Ave would make the branch much more useful for accessing key destinations, such as the Italian Market.

[@Thom-TRA]

They should also make the interchange with the MFL free at 8th, that would make it a more realistic travel option for more people.

[@Videowatcher10p]

The problem is the entrance to each line is in between PATCO and the mall entrance

[@michaelgreene4748]

If (i hope it's when) the Roosevelt Boulevard Line is built, it's slated to run as an express on the Broad Street Subway to Walnu-Locust, with potential special service to the Sports Complex near the NRG (built as Pattison) Station. The section currently south of Walnut-Locust only has 2 tracks, and, under current service patterns, that's adequate. There is a provision for a branch on Passyunk Avenue with a junction just north of the Snyder Avenue Station. If that were to be built, that might justify building of 2 extra tracks in the Subway starting just north of the Lombard-South Station. Regarding an extension south from 8th and Market, you'd have to build a deeper tunnel below the current PATCO line, or if PATCO were to be relocated onto a separate tunnel in Center City, its current tunnel, which was built as part of the Ridge Avenue line, except going west on Locust Street west of 18th Street, through the University of Pennsylvania Campus to Southwest Philly via Woodland Avenue, to PHL...the Passyunk Avenue Branch would also have run to SW Philly, meeting the Woodland Avenue line. (Had that been built, the current RRD line to PHL would not have been needed.) Oh, if this were to happen a junction would be needed at 8th and Locust, with SB trains having to drop under the turn at 8th and Locust. (NB trains could just meet the tunnel coming from Locust Street.) Oh, the fantasies we could have here...

[@Trainsaregreat365]

Every time a new trains are awesome video drops i always tune in because i get to find out about a lot of the quirks of transit systems around the world

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@Trainsaregreat365]

@@Thom-TRA you're welcome

[@redarrow5591]

Couple more fun facts: before the express tracks was extended finally to Olney, the spur ran in two different segments. During the rush, they ran local to Erie then utilized the upper level layover north of the station to turn around; off peak they ran up the express to Girard Avenue and turned around on the Main, running as a shuttle. The turn around ramp at Olney was also built in 91. And Tracks 2 and 3 is still listed as the fastest heavy rail Maximum Allowed at 70MPH

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video sir, good to see the spur line being studied.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@kjrehberg]

In Center City the Broad Street Line stations are immensely overbuilt. The mezzanines span blocks and give great protection from the weather.

[@jasperyapping]

Kinda reminds me of the trunk line we have in Atlanta for the green line, its only one stop independent from the main blue line (Bankhead) and they also use 2 car trains only for now, although i've heard plans to make it 4 cars and extend it from its eastern terminus at Edgewood to Avondale and for an infill station on the western end on the trunk line at joseph e boone. Such a clutch tho if you live near one of those double line served stops and only need to get to one of the stops served by both, basically doubles the frequency

[@Thom-TRA]

Yep, that’s pretty much how the DC metro operates. Triple the frequency in the downtown core.

[@Razorgeist]

I decided to do my first rail fanning day on the broad ridge spur and apparently it was a few days after you filmed. Definitely a neat system. Heres hoping they eventually build the Roosevelt boulevard subway branch.

[@stephenkeever6029]

Glad you covered this unique spur. I learned some new information and it was good to see Rose.

[@Thom-TRA]

Glad you could learn something new!

[@matthewconstantine5015]

I need to spend more time in Philly. I think I've only used transit between the Amtrak station and Center City. Riding the streetcar deep underground was crazy. Felt like being in the coal-cart chase from Temple of Doom.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah the streetcars are really cool. I didn’t get to ride them this trip but I’ve been on them before.

[@DemonSilverHuskey]

This video showed up in my recommended list. I've ridden the Broad-Ridge Spur and always wondered where the strange branch line went. (I guess I could have just looked it up.) But it was so cool to see it. I mentioned to my husband and he took it to work all the time when he used to work in Center City. I also had no idea about the abandoned Spring Garden station. Thinking about it, I realize the reason I never took this line... Usually when I wanted to get to Market street I would just take the EL. It's a bit easier to do from the Lower Northeast when either the Broad Street line or the Market-Frankford line were both viable options. If I lived a bit deeper in North Philly, I probably would have taken the Broad-Ridge Spur to get to Market St. Seems a lot faster than taking the express to City Hall, then having to walk back to Market. Anyway, thanks for the cool video! This channel gets a sub from me for the SEPTA content, plus seeing other transit systems is just fascinating.

[@Thom-TRA]

I love when people learn new things about their own city! I do it myself all the time

[@injustifiiable]

Just got back from Philly…had to check out the PCCs getting back on Route 15 after the line being shut down for construction since 2020. Philly is one of my favorite cities transit wise. So much variety.

[@fdm2155]

I used to take the 15 trolley in high school. We could just about walk faster. 😄

[@JuliasCesar]

THANK YOU ROSE AND THANK YOU THOM! This was a highly informational pov look into Philly’s Subway system! It’s interesting and quite beautiful but the most unique feature is the express services! Here in Canada, we have like 0 express services on metro lines. I know it’s something that would increase ridership by actually giving car dependant users a quick traffic free ride to their workplaces. I also think branch lines are fantastic cause Vancouver’s Canada Line has branch lines from Bridgeport heading to the airport and Sea Island (there’s some neighbourhoods right next to the airport) and another out to the city of Richmond. I really hope America gets a better government who will believe in and fund proper public transit cause you guys have great systems that just need better funding!

[@calinahernandez6775]

You did your homework well, thank you for putting Philly on the map. SEPTA is far from perfect perfect but it's better then some systems. ❤

[@fdm2155]

Yes, as much as I sometimes gripe about SEPTA, using other systems OR going to places with little to no transit, makes me appreciate how expansive our system is. You can get just about anywhere.

[@brycebundens6866]

Great Philly content!!!!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!!

[@johnchambers8528]

Here is some more background on the 8th street Broad Street line spur. Years ago it ran north to Erie Ave. station where it would go up a ramp to turn around and comedown on the southbound side. I was told that the reason that ramp and turn around was there was because that would be where the northeast extension of the Broad Street line would start. But just like the center city loop that extension was never built.It still is there so if they ever decide to extend it is ready to go. There also is an abandoned planed station under Roosevelt Blvd. where the old Sears warehouse and store were.

[@AC34D]

Rode the line on my most recent trip to Philly. It’s definitely fun. Those B4s have character.

[@mspennyisaac]

Wow, you educated me on my own city. Lol. I have no idea why or how I came across this video but, I’m happy I did ❤️

[@Thom-TRA]

I'm so glad you did too!

[@TheHungryTransitFan]

Thanks for featuring the Spur! It provides an easy connection for people coming on the PATCO to connect to points north, as the pedestrian connection to the main line along Broad St is not as easy as it once was with closures of the underground concourse (for now, the best option otherwise would be connecting at 8th to the MFL/L, then going to the BSL/B at 15th/City Hall). Using the easternmost exit gates from the PATCO at 8th/Market places one steps away from the Spur entrance.

[@liltoaster7308]

Some cool facts about the broad Street line. 1.Its one of the fastest urban subways in the US, as the Kawasaki cars can go up to 70mph (typically run about 55mph) because the tunnels are mostly straight. 2. The 2 track southern bit of the line below Walnut-Locust was originally planed to include 4 tracks but that never panned out fully. There was also supposed to be a spur line that under Passyunk avenue and though part of the tunnels were built they were never used. 3. Philadelphia was supposed to get subway service to far more parts of the city connecting to the Broad Street line but funds for the project were squandered when they were instead spent on the failed 1926 Susquentennial. 4. The Broad street line curves around the foundations of Philadelphia city hall and much of the foundation itself takes up space on the platforms there. This because the building is the second tallest masonry building in the world and the largest municipal building in the US, so it needs deep foundations. 5. This subway line was able to retain a lot of its late 1920's art deco entrances and tile art unlike the Market-Frankford Line, which has infrastructure from the late 1900's-1910's and has almost entirely been replaced in all but a few spots.

[@michaelgreene4748]

In April, 1992, I rode a Broad Street express train that hit 72 MPH on a SB section just south of the Susquehanna-Dauphin station. South of that, on the express tracks, a train will encounter speed signals designed to slow down express trains as they approach Girard Avenue.

[@Wins_And_Losses]

Broad-Ridge Spur is unique. But the most unique line on SEPTA is definitely the Route 100 or now known as the NHSL. Literally haven't seen a line like it anywhere in the United States.

[@johnchambers8528]

It is so different because it was originally built to be a much larger interurban service. It actually had interurban service on it for several years. The Lehigh Valley Transit Company ran an interurban between Allentown and 69th Street Terminal using the existing SEPTA line at Norristown. The service ended in the 1950’s.

[@anthonywarrener1881]

Thank you for explaining the intricacies of the Philly metro system. I have used several of the lines, and was always impressed by the ridership levels. I guess you chose an off peak time to ride the branch, and presumably ridership is much greater in the peaks. It’s also nice to know that all the routes in Philly including Amtrak are electrified ! Many thanks.

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m always amazed how crowded the Market Frankford line is

[@johnfriel-uj2zs]

Broad Ridge Spur Is Awesome 👌 👏 Thank 😊 You For History 😘 😊

[@bobsykes]

You're reminding me of my days at Penn. Philadelphia had pretty good transit even back in the day.

[@Thom-TRA]

Good memories I hope!

[@jamesinman1198]

The broad street line being lengthy underground, That’s What I Call A Subway! Long subway lines underground are cool.

[@jkotran]

Outstanding work 👍🏻👍🏻

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you so much!

[@chrisboyle1421]

Before the plan changed, there were two sections of tunnel built under Arch Street that are still there and have been abandoned for over 100 years.

[@Thom-TRA]

Oh, an abandoned tunnel under Philly. Who knows what stuff happens down there lol.

[@29downtheline]

Great video! The Broad Street Line is definitely one of the more interesting lines I’ve ridden! Maybe improving the interchange at Fairmount (i.e. allowing changes from other southbound services) would help ridership!

[@Thom-TRA]

The big thing would be allowing free transfers at 8th & Market

[@29downtheline]

100% agreed

[@davidfreeman3083]

I still remember the first time I rode the SEPTA, from onley all the way downtown (I was living in a northern suburb of Philly that time), I accidentally got onto the spur. ;)

[@Thom-TRA]

Haha, I get you had to do a double take!

[@chesthoIe]

Woo, now I'm 4 tiny center city blocks away from where I would have been.

[@tanayanottanyabrooks8085]

The 8th and market train (ridge-spur) is a very convenient train if you want to go directly in the middle of center city.

[@lylelanley18]

This makes me think of the MARTA Green Line, in a way, and hi Thom, interesting topic as usual

[@3DJapan]

My mom was a construction worker on the Commuter Tunnel that runs under Market Street.

[@MrMannyfresh78]

Been to Philly countless times back and forth from DC to family in northern Jersey. Out of all those trips over 20 years I only ever rode SEPTA once (Trenton line).

[@Thom-TRA]

Time to come back and ride more! There’s a lot to see

[@georgetompkins5438]

Great video. I learned a lot

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m glad!

[@ccityplanner1217]

Only being able to accommodate 2-car trains is an operational constraint since if you want to have those trains go somewhere else at rush hour, you have to either run them as 2 cars or take them into the yard to couple them with another train.

[@nashorn9745]

There is no need to send a train into a yard to make them shorter or longer.

[@michaelgreene4748]

The maximum currently possible is 4 cars, once used in the 1960s and 1970s. If the Ridge Platform at Fairmount were fully restored, I think 6 cars would be the maximum possible...i think the current 8th and Market station can platform a 6-car train, though traffic on the spur has never needed 6-car trains.

[@Northern_Idaho]

On the topic of branches, I prefer them being shown together if they have an identical service the other direction, which the Broad Ridge Spur doesn’t. I think it’s good they’re relabeling the services to be easier to communicate to passengers, but also they acknowledge the separateness of the spur from the mainline. As an opposite point, I think the Miami Orange Line should be part of the Green Line, since the Orange is the same thing as the Green, except for the one stop branch to the airport.

[@chriscubingclips]

I've always thought SEPTA is just a bit too confusing for me. Thankfully SEPTA Metro seems to be clearing it up a little bit and maybe I'll take a regional rail train to Philly sometime soon. The DC metro is just so clear and easy (to me at least), and even NYC MTA been easy for me to wrap my head around. Thanks Thom (and Rose) for showing an interesting part of Philly transport.

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m a big fan of SEPTA metro, I think they did a good job making things easier to figure out if you’re not a regular (or a nerd lol)

[@jamesinman1198]

Express subway trains on the broad street line have great speed in Philly!

[@mvarnold]

Would it be technically feasible to extend the broad ridge spur further south along 8th st? There's a ton of residential density down there, and land along the existing spur is pretty underdeveloped.

[@Thom-TRA]

I mean I don’t know what the basements and utilities under 8th street look like but assuming they’re not in the way I don’t see why not.

[@mvarnold]

@@Thom-TRA Was initially thinking about extending it on the current level, which doesn't work because it would hit the MFL. But you could interline with PATCO on 8th, and just build new tracks south of 8th and locust.

[@alanzemsky7695]

Great review! Can you do a video on the septa train line that connects Philly airport to downtown and to the line that goes to the sports stadiums from downtown? Thanks!

[@Thom-TRA]

Someday

[@alanzemsky7695]

@@Thom-TRA thank you!

[@landon176]

Similarities to CTA: the seats on the broad street line look like CTA seats and on the broad ridge spur the trains have 2 cars just like on the CTA yellow line (AKA the Skokie swift), also the destination signage have a similar shape and layout on CTA and similar window design and placement.

[@danhassler6585]

I've heard the plan is to run the express B2 trains on the spur while they complete renovations at City Hall station. That will be interesting to see if that actually happens in the next year or two.

[@Thom-TRA]

It seems to me it would be easier to just scrap the B2 for that period and run extra B3s

[@peppertree5706]

In NYC-The A train has two branches in Queens. One goes to Rockaway and the other goes to Lefferts Blvd.

[@Thom-TRA]

True!

[@kevanhubbard9673]

I think that the reason most metros don't have many branches is they add,greatly,to the signalling complexity plus you have the maintence on the points.

[@Thom-TRA]

It also reduces frequency

[@peterfrey6062]

that's why Broad st line was built for 4 tracks

[@thanbo]

Why not build the last block of the planned Broad Street loop to Walnut-Locust? It might add some useful routing flexibility.

[@paulengel7789]

Gotta brag a bit. I watched this while riding the Renfe, zipping along between Madrid and Alicante at 178 mph

[@Thom-TRA]

Nice

[@3DJapan]

I took the Broad Street line for 2 stops almost every day in college.

[@michaelb9629]

That’s the subway in Philadelphia that I’m the most interested in checking out someday.

[@Thom-TRA]

It’s super interesting

[@michaelb9629]

@@Thom-TRA oh that’s good

[@TonyAnnechino]

With PATCO's Franklin Square station (re)opening up soon, there should be a concourse or protected surface-level path to the Chinatown station. That block is also where NJ Transit buses have their last possible stop before crossing the BFB to NJ. This could create an intermodal connection point across three separate agencies that is rare in Philadelphia.

[@Thom-TRA]

That sounds like a great idea

[@ccityplanner1217]

When the branch is opened along Roosevelt Avenue, will that go to 8th Street or will only Fern Rock / Olney trains go there?

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s so far in the future I don’t think there’s a concrete service plan yet

[@peterfrey6062]

probably to Walnut-Locust for greater capacity. The 8th & Market spur is only 1 track

[@jm-bv1wh]

Being realistic, that branch will never be built.

[@butth3ad]

fun fact: the first and only time i ever rode the spur it was completely by accident. i accidentally got off at girard from temple for a confusing reason which made me late to meet my friend at city hall so i was like oh i'll just take the express! and i got on and all of a sudden i lost all my phone service and we went through the old abandoned spring garden station and i thought i was gonna die and then this little girl threw up next to me and there was just so much going on and i was so scared and i didn't know what was happening and then i finally realized what was going on and then i just got off at franklin square and ended up just walking to city hall. it was terrible.

[@noisuf0]

Great video, as usual 🥰

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@Splenda257]

The Broad Ridge Spur is probably part of a line that was never completed. The Broad Street line was suppose to be the truck of a larger system that was never built.

[@Thom-TRA]

In the video you’ll see that’s the case

[@PopePlatinumBeats]

Just saw images of the new Hitachi trains coming to the EL line... they look space age.... launching in 2029...cant wait to ride one

[@Thom-TRA]

I saw those too! I’m SO EXCITED

[@97nelsn]

I went to Philly that day and ate lunch at Sonny’s to which I then walked to a Japanese crafts store (Omoi) and then walked to Chinatown. I need to go back to Philly.

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow we were there on the same day?

[@97nelsn]

@@Thom-TRA yup, though I arrived around 1:30 PM. Well after you filmed yourself at the Broad-Ridge Spur.

[@blksoul26]

Cool video

[@bryanCJC2105]

Good video. Living in DC must make it easier to visit all those East Coast networks. Yeah ridership on the spur is very low. The B3 has a ridership of 2300/day while the mainline has ridership of about 80,000/day. Interesting that the Chinatown stop sees only about 300/day while the Race/Vine stop 5 blocks away sees 3200/day. The Spring Garden B3 stop probably had nearly 0 ridership because the Spring Garden stop on the main line only 2 blocks away sees 7,500/day. The main line and the B2 express on the main line meet transit needs that the B3 doesn't. I attribute it to a lack of major destinations along the spur. Even the PATCO connection can be made from the main line, so the spur serves no unique purpose. It's at the edge of Center City which is better served by the Market-Frankford line. In fact, I'm curious about the configuration of the B3 express service. It hardly services enough stations to fill a train. The B2 express goes directly into Center City which is where most people are going and so the express service has a purpose. The B3 doesn't seem to satisfy a need. If the Broad St line were extended as a branch along Roosevelt Blvd (proposed to add 100,000+ riders/day), the B3 could run along the branch and then go express from Erie all the way to City Hall, abandoning the Ridge Spur altogether, of course the B2 could just as easily do that. Maybe there is no need at all for 3 services on the Broad St line.

[@Thom-TRA]

It used to be used much more when the big mall was open/more popular. I think it could be more successful if a free transfer was granted at 8th: for certain MFL/PATCO connections 8th would be a faster trip. Just currently it’s more expensive.

[@PBE86]

BSL trains are from the 80s while the MFL line started service when I was in high school like 1999-2000😅

[@simonsv9449]

Stockholm has multiple branches at the end of each line as well.

[@philliphyland2031]

damn I remember those trains

[@addisonmartin3783]

Where was that last portion? The concourse? I’ve seen portions of the concourse near 18th and arch?

[@Shinycelebi]

8th and Market, last stop on the Spur. It leads out to Patco and the MFL and up into Jefferson (Market East).

[@RallyingforRail]

Cool stuff! One of the times I visited Philly (I have a close friend there), I saw one of these two-car trains and was curious what the deal was with the two-car train. Now I know. Also, apparently, the Gallery Mall's closure in 2014 caused ridership on the spur line to decrease 25 percent.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yep, the closure of the mall hit ridership hard

[@nicholasthompson7690]

Been here. Great subway line

[@Thom-TRA]

Awesome!

[@jm-bv1wh]

I rode the Broad St line for the first time in 1990, when I moved to Philly. I was at the Susquehanna-Dauphin station, a local stop.A train was heard approaching on the express line, and everybody on the platform put their hands over their ears. I thought was strange, but when the express blew through the station, i quickly understood. The noise from the train wheels was absolutely deafening. I couldn't imagine any train, anywhere, being that loud. Your really had to put your hands over your ears.I later heard that there was a design flaw in the cars that causes the excessive noise. Does anybody know anything about that? Thanks.

[@Thom-TRA]

I noticed too that the BSL noise made even the New York subway sound quiet lol

[@jm-bv1wh]

@@Thom-TRA Thanks for getting back to me - good to know that I'm not the only one! Yes, the NYC subway is quiet by comparison, even its express lines.

[@Reh_Arc]

Yoooooo I see my friend in the video at 8th & market

[@alexisdespland4939]

they should renovate and reopen spingarden east station.

[@Thom-TRA]

I believe it’s in the cards for the long term

[@ccityplanner1217]

11:33: the Chinese characters at Chinatown read from right to left to match the direction that trains go when they call at that platform. This is the equivalent of English text rotated 90° anti-clockwise to read upwards, since Chinese traditionally reads from top to bottom. Nowadays left to right is more common because it works better on a computer screen.

[@Thom-TRA]

Chinese reads from top to bottom, right to left, so it shouldn’t be too hard to read. In Japan, most text has been switched from left to right, with really books being the only things that are still read the traditional way.

[@ChasMusic]

Signs on businesses in San Francisco Chinatown are mostly left to right but a few are right to left. I can't speak for Philadelphia Chinatown.

[@steamymemes7946]

I went to Philly last Tuesday and oh my god SEPTAs mad dirty. Although i’ll give them credit for Drexel at 30th.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah it’s really gross

[@jm-bv1wh]

Give it time. Drexel at 30th was just renovated. Come back in 2 weeks. Ha-ha.

[@DREWtubeStreet]

​@jm-bv1wh it's been two weeks, and it's still clean, so joke's on you haha.

[@scorpgal6087]

Except for the orange color, these are the best subway cars ever! In addition to having a choice of forward or sideway seating, there are single & double seats behind plexiglass at the ends of the cars. It's like having your own VIP seating area, but at no extra charge & open to anyone who gets there first. Most Philadelphians are too lazy to walk to the end of the car, so those seats are often available, especially off-peak.

[@Thom-TRA]

What’s wrong with orange? I kind of like how it pops

[@astrosquirrel08108]

There was recently an announcement rhat the B-IVs are going to be replaced, iirc the procurement process begins in 2026?

[@Thom-TRA]

Interesting. Couldn’t find anything on that. But I hope you’re right, it’s about time.

[@londonwhaley8690]

I enjoyed the video👍👍

[@jordanalexander4331]

Philly probably has so much potential, it has the best urban planning of any pre-colonial Big city, it has wide streets that where purposefully built with wide lanes in order to accommodate future transit developments, most notably Roosevelt Boulevard extension, which is already partially built. Our main problem is Pennsylvania suffers from being under Republican rule, mainly in the senate and have refuse or item neglected planning separate altogether, only providing the bare minimum; the most blatant example was during Corbett administration and during the legislative sessions under Wolf when republicans outright refused to do anything, they even took away funding from the school district.

[@moosesandmeese969]

SEPTA should take the spur and extends it up ridge ave and either 8th street or 5th street for a new metro line. It's about time Philadelphia gets a new metro line because Barcelona also with 1.6 million people has 12 metro lines while we only have 2 and a half

[@Bill.Pearson]

Ugh! You didn't mention the real reason the spur went to 8th & Market. At one time that intersection was the biggest commerce intersection in the world. On 3 of those corners were 3 huge Department stores: Gimbles (now a parking lot) , Strawbridge & Clothier, and Lit Brothers. Nowhere was there a bigger concentration of retail, and everybody rode the subway in those days (fewer people owned cars). 8th & Market was THE destination for shopping, before malls and big box stores, and Philly had a million more residents.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah sorry, that’s not in any of the historic records about the line.

[@kevinb8881]

Thom, I also heard the same thing, too, about SEPTA replacing their M-4 cars with M-5 cars within the next 5 to 10 years, I wonder what railcar manufacturer is going to win that contract!!!

[@michaelgreene4748]

Hitachi won the contract. It calls for trains with gangways between cars, similar to the trains now on Toronto's Yonge-Spadina line, and trains currently (as of 8/01/2024) going into service on the C line in NYC.

[@kevinb8881]

@@michaelgreene4748 Yes, I actually just read about Hitachi making the M-5 railcars yesterday!!

[@Patrickair4444]

Philadelphia is very nice transportation system

[@haj8579]

One disturbing thing I found in this line is that they made you miss one train because they did not tell the passengers in what platform their desired train will come. I wish SEPTA made that more clear.

[@hivehum]

if you kept watching, the train turned around and picked them up

@@hivehum I had no idea it worked like that. Very interesting.

[@joshuadominictoling5310]

I like Amtrak a lot. They serve snacks for short routes only.

[@Thom-TRA]

They serve snacks on all routes except the Hiawatha

[@Blank00]

Do you think the replacement will be a common replacement with the Norristown High Speed line?

[@Thom-TRA]

No, those two lines are very different

[@Michael_afton698]

My favorite is the high speed line

[@Thom-TRA]

I wanted to ride it that day but ran out of time

[@Michael_afton698]

@@Thom-TRA aw man

[@yvonneplant9434]

They were supposed to build more of these spurs, right?

[@Thom-TRA]

Yes

[@alexisdespland4939]

the ridge street spur should be extended to meet the cross delware ferries and maybe even futhur soth to the various square on 4th street south,

[@himbourbanist]

Hopefully thosw wayfinding mishaps will be fewer and farther between with SEPTA's new wayfinding improvements.

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m hopeful!

[@davidpinckney8868]

They don't operate on Sundays if you going downtown you have to ride the BSL to city hall and take the MFL

[@sithisrants4154]

I'm always shocked at how easy it is to park in Philly. Driving in from the suburbs, everything seems really car-dependent, and while the trains are nice, it takes about a half an hour longer to get to Center City from where I live than it does on I-95. This does not make sense. If Philly really wanted to improve its regional rail system, it could start charging tolls for private vehicles entering and run more frequent services outside of and within the city. The fact that these trains are mostly empty is patently absurd.

[@NoahTrainFanandMore]

New subs

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks for subbing

[@Cupertinorail]

Not sure if the subway cars can be replaced in the next 40 years.

[@HP21-12]

I can just smell this video lol

[@mfs10131]

You failed to mention the DC Metro Yellow line that is express over the blue line between Pentagon and L’enfant Plaza

[@Thom-TRA]

That is not an express

[@kjrehberg]

@@Thom-TRA Yep, we don't have express lines in DC.

[@jamesinman1198]

Why do some stations get abandon? Do you know?

[@Thom-TRA]

Not used much, a lot of crime.

[@raymondkerstetter2884]

why is there so many misspellings on the captions on this video ???

[@Thom-TRA]

Because KZbin’s robot that does the captions isn’t very good at it

[@peterfrey6062]

good to have you back in my home town!! Good tour--- but last time I checked, I thought the spur trains also went to Fern Rock?? Couple points to add about my favorite subway line: the turn around you mentioned at Olney TC was intended for a further extension north to Cheltenham ave, and north of Erie there's an upper turn around deck which could be used for the always mentioned-but never built Roosevelt blvd branch. Finally you overlooked the cool "front end marker lighst" for train destination: White for locals, Green for Express, Yellow for Ridge and blue for "Specials" (non stop to NRG during Phillies games) You were right about the Ridge spur (often called "the subway to nowhere") being originally part of a loop, but then revised for a West Philly extension serving U of P and medical complex area, to be run by Patco and/or re-connect the Ridge spur near Chinatown to the Patco tracks for through routing. .

[@yiannisd8286]

The spur only runs to fern rock on Saturdays

[@michaelgreene4748]

The West/Southwest extension of the Locust Street Subway was never built west of 18th Street, due to the Great Depression. A model board for the complete line was built, and may still exist in a "tower" built between the NB local and express tracks at Fairmount Avenue station. That subway under 8th and Locust streets was leased to PATCO starting in 1969, with the current single-track station for Ridge Avenue trains built, opening in 1968. (Its construction would cause the abandonment of the Route 47 trolley line on 8th and 9th Streets, since 8th Street from Race to Filbert Streets was torn up to build this tunnel...when the street was restored, it did not have tracks in the restored 8th Street.)