Survivor 46 Finale Discussion - Hide and Seek and a New Sole Survivor

The Survivor Specialists discuss what Q's Hide and Seek game correctly predicted and whether the right person won Survivor 46!
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[@elitettelbach4247]

I do enjoy the discussions about reading the edit and looking at confessionals and visibility. I’ll definitely be thinking about the “has a confessional in every episode = finalist” theory moving forward until it’s proven wrong under these new circumstances. Analyzing the Hide and Seek scene through a more critical lens was really interesting! Lots of foreshadowing, not just in content, but also in tone and presentation. And still just a very fun scene in an incredibly entertaining episode (easily top 5 of the new era at least)! Huge congrats to Kenzie on her win! I think she did a great job of managing her threat level without giving as many direct confessionals about it as Charlie did haha. Much like her picking people to join her for reward, Maria is fully entitled to vote for whoever she wants to win. But the way she went about it and the overexplanation of her decision are what’s lending to such a large backlash. In another reward picking comparison, Q chose who he wanted to, gave a short reasoning and moved on. He then did something similar with voting for Kenzie to win - gave his reasoning and moved on. Both times it might have pissed some people off, but nobody is writing think pieces or spending hours on podcasts debating why he did what he did. Great job covering this Survivor season! Looking forward to Blake’s Big Brother coverage!

[@penguins776]

What I appreciate about Kenzie, is that the editors ACTUALLY showed her in the edit. Finally, we get a women winner that we get to know instead of not being that visible.

[@survivorspecialists]

Her edit was incredible! She absolutely deserved the win. And it was refreshing to see her and Dee back to back.

[@acecafe727]

Maria is old enough to be Charlie’s mom. So she may not have seen him as her equal. She seemed to have a tighter relationship with/Q and perhaps took the relationship with Charlie for granted. When she got voted out and found out the role Charlie played in that, she was upset. As a mom around Maria’s age, I get it. She was a great competitor and I feel like the way she lost her last challenge was unfair. Which makes her reasons for voting for Kenzie not convincing.

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

i think you are right Phil about Maria voting 100% voting for Kenzie before she came in to tribal because when Jeff asked who changed their mind about their votes, she did not raise her hand which means she came in FTC wanting to vote for Kenzie and stayed true to what she wanted and voted Kenzie

[@ajkontsis752]

Am I the only one who loves hearing Phil talk about confessional counts? I find it so interesting

[@survivorspecialists]

You and me might be the only ones!! I think it's such valuable information and just an interesting way to look at the show... but not everyone feels that way.

[@zack3961]

It’s the lost telling part of the show for the story that is being told. So looking at the show in critical way they might be the most important part.

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

no, i like his confessional counts as well. i still find it insulting that after 46 seasons , editors will still female winners to have less confessionals than male runner ups. Kenzie getting only 5 in that finale when she is the winner all the while Ben and Charlie getting each 11 is unacceptable. Even Liz got 8 or 9. they just could not have a female winner with 80+ confessionals

[@zack3961]

I don’t care that Maria voted for Charlie. It’s the fact that we don’t have any understanding as to why she voted for Kenzie other assumption. Because of all the back forth that is happening online no one truly knows. Anyone is allowed to vote under any criteria they deem necessary but it’s the fact we have no idea what it is that is annoying.

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

i think Kenzie's win is better than Michele because we saw Kenzie's social game and she had to fight her way through to get to the end unlike Michele who got to the merge without breaking a sweat. Also Michele benefitted from a bitter jury with whom she was able to build bonds during rewards. Aubry had said that unlike Michèle she was never able to go to rewards with Jason, Scott, Julia to build bonds with them

[@bobojo6447]

Yeah we definitely got to see why Kenzie was so loved

[@Patsox]

When they were showing the few voting confessionals at final 3, I think Hunter and Soda were the ones shown as voting Charlie, my first thought was that Maria must not have voted for Charlie, or they would've shown her vote as the obvious reveal to not yet give away one of the other 2 that should've been less certain, but thought I must've been overthinking it, especially after the 3rd vote for Charlie was revealed. Man, did I not see that coming.

[@cindyfleck400]

I don't like all the focus on Charlie and Maria. I feel like it is taking away from Kenzie's win. I think she did a great job and I was rooting for her from the beginning. I was actually surprised that Hunter didn't vote for Kenzie.

[@bobojo6447]

Gabler beating Cassidy is nothing compared to Maria’s vote. Gabler got votes for the same reason Kenzie did, just being a genuine very nice person

[@andreat4277]

I truly appreciate your takes, but it is pretty unfair to Kenzie that people are turning this into a "why Charlie lost" pity party. My take has always been that the winner deserved it and even though I was a huge Aubrey fan, I always defended Michele on SM, because regardless of whether the jury on Kaoh Rong was bitter or not, it was Aubrey's misread on the situation that lead to her demise. Had she read the jury correctly, she would've known that she only stood a chance at winning had she got to the FTC with 2 people jury hated just as much as they hated her. And that is the most important aspect of Survivor - being able to correctly asses what the people sitting on that jury bench want to hear/see from you. In most cases they want to be acknowledged, they want to have a personal connection with you and they want to feel as good as possible about awarding you the million dollars they couldn't get. Kenzie's done an amazing job playing the game with the hand she was dealt. In comparison to Charlie, she had so little place to hide and maneuver her way to the end without getting sniped, while still impacting the game significantly and yet she's done it. Starting from the shitshow that was Yanu, going to almost every single tribal council, having a huge target on her back put randomly by Bhanu (a completely unhinged person lol). Then being associated to another unhinged guy in Q, who then blew her true number one's game, she really almost had no point in the game where she could just chill and exist. On the other hand, Charlie had an easy ride on Siga, plenty of room to make connections and make bonds, specifically with Ben, only to have that relationship almost overtaken by Kenzie, who'd known the guy for half the time. Also, Charlie's good positioning was partly a matter of luck too. Q basically forced Tim into "The 6" and by extension Maria as well, then Tim got voted out and Maria got Charlie in the mix. Maria's involvement with "The 6" and her relationship with Tevin saved him from being in consideration for the boot both at the merge vote and at the Soda boot. Also, he's physically in very good shape, which is a great shield in itself, cause if you win immunity, you can't get booted 😅So, ofc he had a much wider field for maneuvering when he got presented with opportunities left and right, sometimes without having to work for them at all. This kinda brings me to Maria's vote too and I wonder if this had anything to do with her deciding not to vote for him. At the FTC he tried to claim getting into "The 6" as something he achieved on his own by placating Q, completely disregarding the fact that she was the one who actually got him there. Also, from his confessionals it seemed that he viewed himself as the mastermind of that partnership, who didn't really see her as a companion but more like this shield that he had total control of, giving her props only to paint a target on her back and not out of any kind of genuine respect. And while in certain situations it really did seem like she was blindly doing his dirty work, there were also situations where her relationships and moves kept him in the game and he was either completely unaware of it, or not willing to admit it. And since he brought up the whole "Q and the 6" thing at the tribal, I'm wondering if he mentioned some other instances where in his opinion he "outsmarted" Maria trying to differentiate his game and showcase agency in front of the jury. Cause if my supposed number 1 ally tried to take the whole credit for the game we played together (a game that brought us both very far), completely disregarding my involvement, that would lead me to reconsider if any of those kind supportive words he told me on my way out had any meaning or if he was just trying to ensure he gets my vote, while actually not considering my game or myself as worthy, or at least not nearly as worthy as his own game. In that case I would've not wanted to award him my vote, especially if my view of our partnership was genuine. I also understand giving a bs answer to the "why" question, cause truly every juror can vote for whoever they want for whatever reason and they do not owe an explanation to anybody. Also, I feel like whatever reasoning she gave, people would still drag her and claim she's bitter and a liar, cause it's not so much about the vote itself, as much it's about the fact that it "cost" Charlie the win. And as a counterpoint, I'd just throw Hunter as an example. He's built an amazing bond with Kenzie, he showed her his "secret room" where he kept his fake idols, his real idol and all sorts of shit, she was the person who kept him feeling falsely secure so he wouldn't use his idol, which is what got him out. A very good and valid argument can be made that he didn't vote for her cause he was bitter as well, but he made a bit more "believable" excuse and didn't work with her since the start, so nobody decided to harp on that. And I'm not saying we should, he had every right to be bitter, to vote for whoever and give whatever bs reasoning. The point is, Survivor is a social experiment designed in a way that forces you to claw your way to the top 3 however you possibly can, while simultaneously reading the people you're voting out so that you could pitch them what they want to hear once they get a chance to decide your fate. If you win, you either made a lot of good reads, or your opponents made a lot of bad ones, or anything in between, but one thing is for sure - you deserved it. And it really is that simple.

[@chuck2469]

I dont think Chalrie got robbed, he misplayed the endgame and took someone with too much win equity to the end

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

Mike Gabler might be a great person but that does not mean he is a great player. a lot of people said that he was constantly asking who to vote for. 43 jury felt like they wanted to vote as a group so they probably let the main players of the group : Cody, Karla and Jesse décide for them and because these 3 were pissed Cassidy outlzsted them they décided to vote for Gabler

[@acecafe727]

I know it’s not feasible but if jurors were kept sequestered, would that change who wins the game?

[@goombas3040]

I'm not accusing you of this Phil, but I get sick of all these edit readers who seem to know it's so obvious who wins when the boot list is spoiled, but disappear on unspoiled.

[@penguins776]

If you are spoiled, out of respect of those who aren’t, don’t make any predictions or say anything that would allude to things that occur in the future.

[@kendra6911]

Great season of survivor. I think it would have been more enjoyable if Maria had voted for Charlie even if Charlie still lost. Looking forward to Big Brother coverage. Blake is going to rock that.

[@KBonilla]

46 is an entertaining season but probably one of the worst gameplay 5 idols not being played shows how meta and cocky players have gotten

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

Congrats to Kenzie. Happy that she won. Sad for Charlie though. Maria is allowed to vote for she wants to. That being said, there are a lot of inconsistencies in her reasons : - she said she saw herself in Kenzie but didn't she say the same about Venus a couple épisodes back ? Which is it Maria because Venus and Kenzie couldn't be more différent - in her not voting for Charlie, having played the same game and voted the exact same way until the Q vote, she is in a way disrespecting her own game and basically saying that had she made it to the end, she wouldn't have deserved to win this game sitting next to kenzie.

[@inkedge1519]

Maria doesnt owe "fans" of survivor the "answer" to why she didnt vote for charlie... she had her reasons simple..if you are not satisfied with it...then well who cares(definetly not her)

[@hjbau1350]

I agree with Blake. Dee is wooden. Though, i also agree that she could practice her way out of that. She was better in that commercial and she seems smarter than Jeff. Jeff seems insane in the early seasons, so Dee couldn't be worse than that.

[@freshofbreathair1476]

I would have laughed off Tiff giving me 30 seconds. What a bully. Not surprised everyone couldn’t wait to vote her off.

[@goombas3040]

Everyone keeps bringing up a bitter Maria narrative and is ignoring the bitter Liz vote. It was a wash and people are failing to see that. I'll go one further and say Liz's vote was more bitter. I truly think Maria saw herself in Kenzie and ultimately the main reason she went Kenzie.

[@survivorspecialists]

My mentality with this is that if Charlie lost 5-3 and got Maria's vote but didn't get Liz's, I don't think anyone would be confused. It's just crazy to me that Maria's vote is ultimately what cost Charlie.

[@JC-unome]

You're wrong.

[@Jackbauer-nh7ln]

@@survivorspecialists in his exit interview, he said right after the votes were read, Hunter, Liz And Soda told him they voted for him so he understood Maria didn't which hurt him and then she kept ignoring him during the aftershow and could not look him in the eyes. then he said a couple weeks/months removed from the game, she told him she regretted not voting for him then she rétracted that statement saying she voted how she was meant to vote so she can't regret it than told him later on she voted for Kenzie for another reason and at some point he got fed up from her unclear answers that she kept changing. Go watch Gordon Holmes exit interview, it's interesting. Hate to say it but maybe she was just bitter/salty and maybe Venus whose reads were spot on all season saw clearly through Maria and her character. Anyways, it feels like Maria wasn't well liked by either Ben or Liz. Really dont understand her standing ovation and I feel like had she made final 3, her reward décision would have come back to bite her.

[@bobojo6447]

I don’t think anyone was relying on Liz’s vote though

[@hjbau1350]

I think that Charlie is boring. I think he is a good player, but i think he was boring tv. I think he would have a chance of winning if he came back, but he is boring to watch. He is very young though. I wish they had shown more of Maria because she seems just as crazy as some of the other players. I keep wondering if they don't have female producers that will elicit the confessionals that they want from woman because certain women are not going to talk to a male producer the way you would want for the show. I don't know how that all works, but i do sometimes wonder if that is one of the problems with the women's confessionals. Not all the women, but certain women, even Dee, they didn't get what they could have gotten and i think that is part of the problem.

[@royjolly4081]

If Dee host survivor, im out! She's not qualified.

[@jaye5872]

I'd say it's neck and neck for me with respect to how impressive both Charlie and Kenzie's games were but for me personally, Charlie just beats Kenzie by a smidge because I felt like he had more control of the game than she did but they're both great players.

[@user-rl3kl7ej4i]

My thoughts on the finale. 1. A terribly weak winner. As bad as Maryann and Erica. Won a little and didn’t do much. 2. Bad cast. Lots of talk but little to no coherent strategy demonstrated. It was a frigging mosh pit where everyone ganged up on whomever showed strength or their personally annoyed the group. No strategy in that. People cast with panic and food(mental) issues that shouldn’t have been in the show. Remember the begging by Bhanu and spaced out Jess. The show is moving toward random actions with emotional justification. This is perfect for Probst because it’s easy to make up narrative afterwards and justify weak winners. 3. Anti-male gender bias continues to grow(Maria and Venus) as well as other forms of bigotry and it is supported by the “inclusive “ show. I have to wash out my mind after watching this show. It’s getting worse. No complaints about the podcast and I think Blake is a good addition to the team.

[@thexiatkills]

anti-male bigotry…that’s a first