The secret economics of Escape Rooms

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

🎉 Unlock AI for $10 per month → ntn.so/PhilEdwards ✨ AI Meeting Summaries template → ntn.so/AIMeetingSummaries

[@DavidSpira]

David from Room Escape Artist here. Thank you Phil. It was a pleasure speaking to you about the industry that I love so much.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thank you for doing it!!

[@loganpressley8806]

This is Logan from Escapism. Funny enough I just got home from dealing with a door being ripped off the hinge and then came back to find my first spot in the video being me talking about the destructiveness of players :). Hopefully we will reduce our breakage as our more premium rooms get released. Nice job with the video!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

ahhhh man. thanks for being part of it and god speed on the hinges!

[@DavidSpira]

😱

[@drctrs]

Unlike with restaurant business though, people don’t frequent the same escape rooms, even if they liked the experience. It’s a one-time experience for absolute majority of people. There’s no sense to go there twice. It’s like re-watching a movie. Most people don’t do that. The novelty factor is a big problem for this business.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yeah i cut this out, but jason in boston and brian in nc both saw their relatively transient populations as an advantage for that reason

[@tearsintherain6311]

Ltv is low

[@silverXnoise]

This definitely feels like a “Gatlinburg” attraction-Gatlinburg is a resort town in the Smoky Mountains that’s essentially just one large urban-planned tourist trap. Branson is another similar place. Cruise ships sounded like the ideal application for it.

[@ryanfirster]

Some places change out the rooms once a year or so on a rotation - so they have 2 experiences active while they work out a third, when that opens they close one of the previous 2 and repeat the cycle.

[@tauntingeveryone7208]

I think it depends. I have visited escape rooms that I did not solve in time before. It is like playing a video game and wanting to retry a level that you did not beat. There is also the experience of trying to speed run an escape room. I do agree most people who complete their escape room usually do not go back to the same room which is why most escape room businesses have multiple rooms.

[@Sparkle_Wizard]

It’s important to remember that the escape rooms also boomed in popularity from online flash games on websites like Newgrounds that evolved into real life escape rooms

[@RadikAlice]

God, that reminds me there was a whole series of them about Jigsaw from the Saw movies putting some famous character or person through one of them

[@GabrielWehrle]

Was looking for this comment! I haven't seen anyone mention this before, but flash games were my first introduction to escape rooms when I was a kid.

[@tauntingeveryone7208]

I love escape rooms. The first multi room escape room that I did was in Boulder Colorado. Honestly I would be okay with dropping a couple of hundred on an escape room. However, I am one of those weirdos that prefers the puzzle aspect over the story aspect of an escape room. After doing a lot of escape rooms with friends and randos, one of the biggest things that I learn is that in order to succeed you need to make roles either implicitly or explicitly. You do not want people to be hovering over one puzzle or everyone looking for more puzzles. You also need someone to lead people while also moving all the solved puzzles out of the way. It is important to move solved puzzles out of the way because people can get distracted or confused by them easily. Personally I like being the leader because it allows me to put my military leadership skills in practice. Escape rooms remind me a lot of these combat/environment obstacle course that I had to solve in the military. Usually there was some kind of goal like moving from point a to point B but there were hazards that made you have to think outside the box such as not being able to verbally communicate due to the enemy finding you. Those obstacle courses use a lot of the same skills I use in escape rooms. I have to think creatively and allow others to experience their ideas but also keep people moving. I have to get rid of irreverent items while focusing on the goal. Lastly, one of the things that I think makes a good escape room is when there are multiple ways to solve a puzzle or an escape room has multiple ways to get to the end goal. During Gencon two years ago, my friends and I did a pop-up escape room at Gencon with some other board game enthusiasts. It was some kind of the masque of the red death theme escape room. The best part of the room was that there was a music puzzle that could be solved using some clues around the room but if you knew the melody you could solve it. One of my friends is a big music nerd and knew the song and was able to finish it which solved the puzzle. To this day this has been one of my favorite moments in an escape room because it is nice when you can bring your own knowledge into solving a puzzle while the puzzle is still being able to be solved if you do not have that knowledge. It feels like finding a shortcut in a video game.

[@XxXBigFischXxX]

I remember there being dozens of “escape the room” flash games back in the early to mid 2000s. Not just adventure games, but quite literally “escape the room” type stuff.

[@DrexelGregory]

In Vegas, a company licensed It, Blair Witch, and Saw and made huge escape rooms. They have a whole warehouse for two It games. They also do the pipelining thing and have actors. That’s the most immersive set of games I’ve ever done. The Escape Game chain is nice too

[@anthonygladman6558]

"Yes, TGI Friday's exists..." Um yyyyyeah they're bankrupt now.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

til!

[@SalemCobalt]

OMG, I know SO MANY of the amazing escape room experts / owners showcased in this video! 🎉😍🥰👏

[@johndpaul]

Javi, I visited Portsmouth Escape 6 years ago! I've only been to about 7 or 8 over the years but yours was one of mine.

[@haruko83]

Thanks for supporting our business! ❤

[@jimurrata6785]

Thank you Phil for the consistently engaging and esoteric videos. Your production values started off good and continue to get better!

[@straitJacketFashion]

As a British boy of the 90s, all I’m thinking is Crystal Maze and Jonathan Creek.

[@alastairaitchison6787]

And for British boys of the 1980s, there was "The Adventure Game": kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHiQfKejbtNqbdU

[@DavidSpira]

The Crystal Maze and The Adventure Game absolutely influenced the development of early escape rooms in the UK. There is a Crystal Maze experience in London.

[@loganpressley8806]

@@DavidSpira Funny enough it feels like we are coming full circle. Challenge arcades largely predate escape rooms and are now feel like a new frontier that escape rooms are starting to push into. As an escape room owner, I discovered Crystal Maze by doing research into potentially opening a challenge arcade in the next couple of years.

[@tijmen24nl]

Another well made video! As someone that works in the Netherlands at one of the more established locations, the point of rooms here being amazing really hit home! (Although saying Amsterdam in place of the Netherlands Belgium region kinda hurts, of the top 50 of escapetalk there are only 2 in Amsterdam) I find it so fun to see the whole field shift and change at this quick of a pace. For example, more locations are now adding actors in their games because it adds a lot of personal touch. But other rooms going in an totally other direction, with even better, Disney level set design for example. But one thing is certain, owners are not getting rich here since almost alle the money being made is going right back in the rooms that are being built. Sidenote to anyone that wants to play the top rated games in the world, go take a look at the TERPECA awards! It was shown but not explained in the video, definitely worth a look!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Yeah, agreed, that was dumb writing I did saying Amsterdam....hopefully the visuals clarified, but apologies.

[@GURU-1701]

Great video. I love escape rooms, I even proposed to my wife in an escape room built into a 600 year prison in an old castle wall.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

dang!!!!

[@TheGlassesPush]

Thank you for this thoughtful glimpse into this medium that I love so dearly.

[@developingtank]

I left America around the time that these started popping off. I had no idea this industry had grown so much. Cool and very interesting video. 🖖

[@sharkdavid]

Just did my 2nd escape room last weekend so this video coming out is fortuitous. I agree with the sentiments at the end, I think there's a new art for here. There's so much creative space here: high-end bespoke escape rooms, historically aligned escape rooms, educational escape rooms, series escape rooms, ER with elaborate perfomances, and so on. My takeaway is " every time [...] someone realizes the magic of the escape room, the industry as a whole benefits."

[@ericfielding2540]

I had heard little about escape rooms before. Your video presents the subject with great energy and tight editing, which makes it very enjoyable.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

appreciate it!

[@materialtraces]

I think the oldest escape room-like thing I know of is BodaBorg in Sweden, they have been around since the 90s. They in turn was heavily influenced by a game show called Fångarna på fortet or Fort boyard.

[@DavidSpira]

Boda Borg is absolutely on the immersive gaming spectrum, and it certainly predates escape rooms, but I've seen no evidence that it had any real impact on the early development of the form. But it is a great place.

[@MinneapolisRaven]

I've never been to an escape room, but now I really want to try it! I love the realization that humans are horrifically random.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

the puzzles can be kinda hard but the surprises are so rewarding!

[@Ashley-xu1lk]

Not sure if this is a thing yet, but considering how expensive it is to build these premium escape rooms and thus must come with a hefty price for customers to play in these premium escape rooms, I can see low tech simpler escape rooms becoming popular. Because they wouldn't cost as much to build, they can charge customers less, and it gives first timers a taste of escape rooms and become a transition to the higher tech more elaborate escape rooms. Also I can see them becoming more accessible to kids/teens.

[@IACJLD]

There is a demand. Like how it is mentioned in the video about damage and chaotic customers, having the ability to quickly and cheaply fix or replace is important. Not to mention lower overhead costs translate to more affordable ticket prices or faster ROI. Depending on the designer some of these factors are heavily considered. I will generally recommend using gravity over an actuator if you can. Keep it simple for the owner/staff and complicated for the customers...

[@1.4142]

Escape rooms are big in China too. Did a few of them in 2014. And the cultural references make it harder.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

wish i coulda delved into the chinese scene - david said it was big for dating!

[@DavidSpira]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Indeed it is. Both platonic and romantic.

[@BOABModels]

Fantastically researched video, as always Phil. There's a TV show in the UK called Taskmaster which I think must have been partially inspired by Escape rooms. They get comedians to solve puzzles or complete tasks. They now have a live experience in London which I've heard is very escape room adjacent.

[@brockmckelvey7327]

Ah, so that's why Phil had to skip a week for this upload: he had to spend extra time making his Avatar *just right*

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha yes, and making him dance for me.

[@excalipoor]

Being in nyc, my group used to visit an escape room every other week. Played so many. But covid kinda slowed us down. I always wonder the economics of escape room is like. Thank you for the info. I’m heading for an escape room next week in Brooklyn. 👍 they have an axe throwing place over there too. lol.

[@Krelet]

There were things like this much earlier. Where there would be a building full of shorter escape room experiences - some cerebral, others more physical. Here in Sweden, at least. Places like "Boda Borg" (est. 1995). Our local one was called "Arosfortet" (est. 2004), which became "Prison Island". All emulating the popular TV show "Fångarna på Fortet" (based on the french TV show "Fort Boyard").

[@littlekirby6]

oh, there's a Boda Borg in Boston. I always thought it sounded like something Swedish, but I didn't know it actually was haha

[@XxXenosxX]

I love when you upload videos, there always seems to be something new to learn!

[@NabilTouchie]

Alastair is an absolute genius! His channel is full of great ideas!

[@CraftAero]

Re-vamping a "room" is one solution, but it requires both re-building and re-marketing to get those interested customers to come back. Designing a flexible "room" as a platform, that could exhibit multiple themed puzzles (therefore multiple solutions), is the key to profitability.

[@jasonshaw2065]

Pine and Gilmore's book the Experience Economy predicted much of this. They have a good early TED talk about this demand for unique experiences. Great video thanks

[@jman60004]

I'm surprised the history of the origins didn't include a reference to all the point and click escape room flash games.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i heard mainly about myst and zork, but that could be too!

[@DavidSpira]

Flash games are certainly a part of the history... but at least when I'm telling the story, I try not to spend too much time speaking about the video games unless that's the point. Pre-GUI text adventures, Myst, 7th Guest, Zelda, Monkey Island, Kings Quest, an assortment of Flash games, and much more are all part of the DNA.

[@firelizard2]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Definitely. They were not just puzzle adventure games, but literally "Escape The Room" games, where you are in a room and you solve puzzles and search for clues to unlock the way out. Not sure why David wouldn't want to give them credit, but the authors of these games were definitely building the escape rooms that we see in real life, but in a different medium. It's also interesting how there are parallels in the progression of these games, from simple and rudimentary to deviously clever and elaborate, all in the name of furthering the genre, surpassing themselves as creators, and gaining popularity on Newground's rankings.

[@AvenEngineer]

The combination of ARG with escape rooms should make for some amazing experiences. I can imagine an escape room franchise running ARG's that include many of the franchises across the world, potentially in storylines that unfold over years, if not decades.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

these escape room owners love experimenting with that kinda thing too

[@kelownatechkid]

The Phil-vatar is amazing lmfao! Great video thanks

[@ZuperZocker]

8:19 why does the Notion face look more like Phil than the 3D avatar of Phil?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha i do spend most of my day practicing that expression in a mirror

[@joshuaevans4301]

Omg Notion is using AI so well - it's not about generating content from scratch, it's about being able to navigate a corpus of information using human language!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yeah it's super useful

[@Geeksmithing]

I believe the industry definitely owes much of its success to the proliferation and accessibility of the Arduino, Raspberry Pi & the Maker movement. Great work as usual Phil!

[@DavidSpira]

I very much agree.

[@ProbstStyle]

Meh, Arduinos are toys and not proper for high tech escape rooms. Generally you see them in bad businesses with unreliable tech. Better games use proper automation.

[@Geeksmithing]

@@ProbstStyle regardless of what came since, the availability and widespread adoption of Arduino and similar dev boards really opened up that whole industry which was stuck with some ancient tech such as 555 timers and BASIC stamp which was no where near as user friendly and accessible.

[@tommutchler2939]

Always happy to see a fellow Skylab fan - and love that couch.

[@mikebauer6917]

I played zork a lot in high school, so escape rooms are a natural extension of that kind of adventure for me.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

somebody mentioned zork!!! i cut it, but it was there!

[@leonguyen896]

I misread his name as Victor van Doom and got excited thinking about a Dr Doom themed escape room.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

lol someday - he could make a great one

[@DavidSpira]

You're not alone.

[@zacmackrell9067]

Eyyy, I got the last word! Thanks for the feature Phil, can't wait for the next video.

[@fad23]

I worked pretty steadily for Bucket List prod in Chicago up until the Covid pandemic killed the model. This video captures a zeitgeist.

[@reddcube]

Talked about full circle, escape rooms are a slice of theme park magic. Now *Universal’s Great Movie Escape* is theme park theming with a slice of escape room puzzles.

[@K3NnY_G]

Thanks for having something to share with us today. Half an hour I can just shut off has so much value to me on days like today.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

that's nice for me to hear and i hope the day smooths out or improves!

[@K3NnY_G]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Thanks Phil, keep doing you; you're awesome.

[@matt45540]

I can't wait for full color escape rooms

[@timspoor]

Great video, very entertaining. I love the escape room scene in the Netherlands, indeed almost all of them are of very high quality

[@LukeThomas00000]

Glad you’re back!

[@jaymzx0]

My first time hearing about an escape room was at the Defcon 16 conference in 2008. They had an escape game where you needed to use lockpicking skills to get out of a cell, including picking the handcuffs and generally figuring your way out of it.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

picking handcuffs! that's pretty high level!

[@Danielsaurus]

⁠@@PhilEdwardsIncInterestingly, from my experience at least, most handcuffs are actually *super* simple and very easy to pick open - typically requiring far less skill or specific tools than a regular lock. There are definitely more advanced types of handcuffs found more in law enforcement which are much more difficult to pick, but for the kind most of us think of when we hear handcuffs, they’re actually super simple and fun to pick. Uh, don’t ask me how I know that, though…

[@peterbradburn9115]

Avatar has more than a hint of John Major about rhe hair! 😂 Fascinating delve into a world of which I was barely aware

[@damagineer3147]

i went to 5wits for a birthday party back in 2013 or so. Never realized how unique it was at the time.

[@rocko44444444]

Entertainment and education. That's why I'm here on this channel. I had with this video, thank you!

[@saskblujays441]

The Notion ad was actually a unique use

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

it really did save me a ton of time...like...i think i just would have forgotten a bunch of stuff without it (in addition to the organization stuff)

[@IACJLD]

Great video! Really good insight into how the challenges are evolving…believe me that trying to keep up with trends as a designer is a constant worry. Working to be current and relevant AND progressive is the hardest stuff… All that while balancing cost and value

[@Greendogblue]

seriously how do your videos not get more views

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

it's early for this one! i need your help! i'm stuck in an escape room and can't get out!

[@eytanlew]

At the beginning of the video I thought to myself I definitely did an escape room prior to 2014, two minutes later I was shocked to hear 5Wits and find out I did it at one of three places in the world I would have been able to.

[@rearles4951]

I am a simple man, I see a Phil Edward’s video and I click it.

[@illumina-t-info]

The Huntress in Queens had a really fun escape room, I wonder if it's still around. Seemed like they were a bunch of actors and really had fun with it and then they had an amazing restaurant by Kaufman Studios.

[@PsRohrbaugh]

I want a "no rules" escape room. I don't want a contrived puzzle, I want to actually be trapped, and have to figure out how to break / pick a lock, climb through a false ceiling, or something else. I realize it'd be expensive to maintain and reset, but I think it'd be cool.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

are you willing to commit a crime?

[@PsRohrbaugh]

@PhilEdwardsInc do you mean get arrested and break out of jail 🤣? Nah I'd prefer something with a slightly shorter time span. But I'd love to live an episode of MacGyver or A-team where I'm locked in a barn with a bunch of random junk and have two hours to escape.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@PsRohrbaugh i feel like some of the escape rooms are gettin' close to that! or you could always go the milsim route

[@94Aequitas]

Ive only done one escape room probably back in 2013. We had no idea what to expect, what to do, and we onky cleared I think the first room out of two. From what I recall it was mostly combination boxes to access the key to the next room with clues for each combination number hiddden around the place.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

time to revisit?

[@94Aequitas]

@PhilEdwardsInc Definately!

[@FlameMage2]

Cool video. Hey as a small note @Phil - I've been researching mics to buy my first one and I couldn't help but notice that I think you're talking to the back side of your mic. Front side has the Blue logo on it. Especially if you're on that Cardioid pattern you might be doing yourself a disservice with it backwards like that. I understand if it's dialed in how you like though, I'm certainly no expert myself.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i appreciate it!

[@MrGameFreak777]

Great video, but I can't believe that there's not even a mention of the movie "Saw".

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

oh that's a very good point - i think i'd thought of it in the beginning but nobody brought it up (not to say that it wasn't subconscious inspiration - seems very plausible)

[@anotheruser9876]

Capitalism is one big escape room without an actual escape.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

communism is just a buncha concrete walls

[@floramew]

I certainly couldn't go to one, but I feel like I was aware of the concept of escape rooms prior to 2014? Like, is not exactly the same thing obviously, but 999 released in 2009, as the oldest escape room video game I know of.

[@Sashko_Dee]

Escape Rooms are the Lazer Tag arenas of our generation kinda like the way Google is basically the new BonziBuddy.

[@VascovanZeller]

Google is not bonzibuddy, Google is Yahoo or askjeeves.

[@TonyOstrich]

With laser tag though we could go every Friday or Saturday night and it was a "different" experience. Both of the laser tag arenas I frequented 20 years ago are still in business.

[@commercialcritic4676]

Amazing Video!

[@zuli427]

what do you mean this incredibly well made video is only at 9.000 views????

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

appreciate it!

[@agika222]

I’m sure I visited escape rooms before 2013 in Budapest. Parapark was the first one for me.

[@HippoOnABicycle]

I could see escape rooms scaling up to escape houses, or even escape villages. You could have a village with multiple mysteries to be solved, like a real-life open world video game, allowing the visitors to pick and choose what they want to do. The concept can definitely be expanded upon.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

this was the dream of one of my interviewees!

[@Freepepsi42]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Escape rooms trigger a real life Westworld?

[@wyw876]

Disney seems like they were a decade too early with their Star Wars LARP "hotel" Experience, alas.

[@Camstone0646]

What a coincidence that this released on a day I’m going to an escape room lol

[@orthodynamicstereonails]

4:26 That was me!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thank ya for it!!

[@walterpleyer261]

10 years? Wouldn't the audience expect something new sooner? Maybe 2 years?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

they seem to be able to push it through enough people - i would have thought that too!

[@drctrs]

Hmmm, I think, in Europe at least, the business peaked around 2018 and plateaued since.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yeah it definitely like that in pure volume in the us as well (but not in budget)

[@imacg5]

The Dutch scene sound really dodgy. It almost feels like this is the real "Bohemian Woods" scenario, where rich and powerful people of the younger generation meet. I prefer this so much more than the blood sacrifice stereotype.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

why not both

[@kuukeli]

interesting video

[@Demasx]

Take a shot every time someone says "immersive" 🍻😅

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hmm i think maybe you'll only get buzzed? not sure

[@rocko44444444]

Fact check: parapark do exist, 4 places in Hungary, and other 6 in Europe.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

I think he was referring to the original location (thank you for saying it though regardless).

[@rocko44444444]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Ohh, I see. That could be true. :)

[@the8ctagon]

Just get into cryptic crosswords, you realityflakes! The cost is one broadsheet newspaper per experience, so your bank account, for a start, will thank you. Each crossword will pose many more puzzles than an escape room; you will learn more about the world from them; and you can engage online with a larger community of participants who are tackling the exact same puzzle right now, because even the least popular broadsheet newspaper has a readership far greater than the number of people who can fit in the average escape room.

[@studiosandwich]

Nice

[@marafolse8347]

Squimbo

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

To think you could have gotten a "First" trophy...

[@KatharineOsborne]

Ah, you made your avatar by looking in the mirror instead of a photo.

[@gibberishname]

your avatar's hair is parted the wrong way. You designed him how you see yourself in the mirror, not how you really look.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

nah it just automatically did it that way. i do see myself via a camera quite a lot! for better or worse

[@Soljarag5]

I have no idea how Kamala spent $100k building that call your daddy set. Based on this it should have costed $5000 max

[@pyeitme508]

Ok

[@joshuaphillips755]

I like that you tied everything to Myst - because that's how i relate the two and why i think I'm uninterested.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha yeah you do have to have the myst gene ...

[@LukeThomas00000]

Glad you’re back!

[@studiosandwich]

Ok