Charles Murray: This is The Real Problem with the Welfare State

[@paulvmarks]

The central lesson of Welfare Reform (first in Wisconsin and then nationally) was that one must not hand out money to work capable people in return for no work - and what is the basic income, it is money-for-nothing. Exactly what was discredited by practical experience - DECADES ago.

[@michaelneal900]

There's a thing called corporate welfare...

[@SandfordSmythe]

What money are able people eligible for?

[@electriceyeswatching4415]

It actively discourages fathers being involved in their children's lives, that fact alone should be enough of a reason to get rid of this failed idea.

[@SandfordSmythe]

This law has been changed over 25 years ago.

[@tvede1027FML]

the audio on this is way too low

[@nattanunsangkasaba8991]

I listened to Dr Murray about his experience in Thailand. The community can be self-sufficient in term of taking care of their own problem. Nothing much has anything to do policy given from central government: quite precise observation

[@optimisticallyskeptical1842]

Many years ago family took care of family and it was effective in controlling poverty. Yes, there were issues at times and it was not perfect. But, the government's war on poverty has been an inefficient use of public funds and has replaced the family unit with a more fallible and inefficient system. A good first step to reducing poverty would be to cut the federal government out of the welfare business and have each smaller community handle their own welfare programs. Also, fashion laws and taxes that favor family units so that family can have the resources to better take care of their own. Smaller communities would likely have better oversight of such programs and would be motivated to develop better options for their communities. I say this as a life-long bachelor. Though I may not receive any benefits as such, my decision to be and remain single is a choice and I would accept the consequences of that choice.

[@Macheako]

Nothing is perfect. No person, and no solution. This world has no "perfection" in it There's only us, and "the best we can do"

[@Macheako]

@@MitchMitch77-77 im just glad we invented nuclear weaponry, so now the chances of *everybody* dying is way higher 😂😂 now thats *equality* lol

[@SandfordSmythe]

Smaller localities do not have the capacity to handle welfare needs. It makes people to feel less guilty about abolishing it federally to say this.

[@louisalfrednickolasgabriel7020]

The problem isn't the Welfare State per se; it's that those who enjoy positive (or human) rights (i.e., entitlements) ALSO have their natural rights in tact. This is the impact of democracy (of any form) - all people are treated "equally," even as nature dictates that this is NOT the case. If the welfare state is to continue, those enjoying those handouts must face a decision: gibs or the second amendment? gibs or the first amendment? gibs or the franchise? People perceive socialism to be a utopia because we, at the present moment, have a clasa of people who enjoy their gibs AND the franchise, the first amendment, and the second. The least productive amongst us enjoy too much leverage over the system in the form of voting. The elites are correct in their overall analysis. What is at issue is their method(s).

[@robertmallory2335]

Murray is absolutely brilliant here!

[@sr2291]

What is brilliant about letting people control their own money and not have a huge bureaucracy monitoring and controlling them?

[@ty2010]

Take away people's reason to find purpose and they likely won't.

[@dmur612]

Great point. I can think of nothing more corrosive to the human condition, their family, friends and their community...

[@mavhunter8753]

True

[@SunscreenAndVitamins]

working a low paid job that exhausts and disrespects you is nobody's "purpose"

[@ty2010]

@@SunscreenAndVitamins there are jobs outside of that if you exclude working for yourself?

[@southafricanizationofsociety20]

It funds demographic replacement.

[@EDTHEWATERGUY]

If you feed the mice they multiply.Simple.

[@french2two]

That is not what he is saying at all,

[@Macheako]

@@french2two cool...but does someone NEED to say it for you to know its true... Because it fucking is lol. You feed, itll breed.

[@needicecream100]

Let’s hope nobody’s feeding you!

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@Macheako Here comes Hitler again.

[@gustavo042]

​@@SandfordSmytheNo

[@rhynosouris710]

With US companies exporting any job that can be done overseas, and importing cheap labor to do the remaining jobs, it appears we have only 2 choices to address poverty, either feed 'em and forget 'em, or let them starve as a reminder to the rest of us

[@Dick-m4u]

Brilliant man ... a little left for my taste.

[@skepto-o-punk8286]

UBI is a train-wreck. A hard “NO!” to UBI.

[@mavhunter8753]

Why exactly? I'm genuinely curious.

[@skepto-o-punk8286]

Mav Hunter Besides the simple immoral reality that taking money away from the productive and giving to others who haven’t earned it? Think of the insane idea of taking x dollars from a citizen in taxes, running it through an already inefficient government machine and then giving it back to that same citizen again as $1,000 bucks, or whatever the amount decided, and also the hordes of people who didn’t do anything to earn this money? How many people want to be rock stars, movie stars, KZbinrs, etc. that have absolutely no chance to be so because they lack any talent or ability. The reality of Capitalism is they can try and fail and the real-world feedback of them making no money forces them to make different choices and choose a path more in line with their true skill set. That is essentially how it works now. Now imagine turning around and giving these same people enough money for them to perpetually stay on this misguided path. They’re failing now, but can continue to fail, never offering anything to society but always draining society while endlessly “working towards their dream” ... which really means nothing more than lying to themselves and going no where while accomplishing nothing. Sanders, Warren and their ilk gain power by creating a wedge in society using class. They tell broke people that they’re not failing because of things they do or not do to be successful, but instead because some rich billionaires took their money unfairly. This is idiocy. If you’re poor in America, it is the result of your own bad decisions or your parents, etc. Sooner or later, if want success in life you have to recognize this is completely up to you personally. And no amount of government checks is going to change this. UBI is “free money” that every Socialist politician in America will use to buy votes. Like minimum wage, they’ll say, whatever amount that the UBI check is at that point is “not enough to have a dignified life” and will campaign on raising this amount to Buy. More. Votes. For most of us we get out of bed and go to our jobs out of pure necessity. We have mortgages and bills to pay. What we don’t realize is how much structure this forces on us and actually builds our character. We’re better humans because of it. Personally as an entrepreneur I have created a lifestyle where 95% if my time working is completely discretionary. If I work at all it is because I force myself to do it. I must create my own structure. It isn’t easy when you know your income (because it largely passive) will essentially come in regardless of whether you spend the day taking proactive action that will grow your business - or spend the day watching KZbin videos and writing comments. Having been an owner of a “brick-and-mortar” “real” business and seen time-and-again how productivity drops when I’m not there to watch over employees and keep their feet to the fire, I am very clear what will happen to a large - and ever-growing segment of our society if you paid them enough to subsist without working. They would get down to nothing more than eating, drinking, breeding and seeking out new diversion - but definitely NOT working and putting back into society. We already see this happening in inner cities where who neighborhoods are filled with nothing but welfare recipients whose incomes are supplemented by drug selling and sex work, etc. We have generations of these people and most of them have families larger than the productive people in society. Professionals and people with higher educations and higher paying jobs have far fewer children than families in ghettos. UBI would be the destruction of any country that implements it just as the welfare state destroys those that live off of it.

[@SunscreenAndVitamins]

Sadly, since you can't be convinced, you'll simply have to be overcome.

[@skepto-o-punk8286]

CelineJones Good luck with that. You’re ridiculous.

[@sr2291]

There has never been a UBI.

[@Freefolkcreate]

I love the concept of intentional mutual aid societies set up by communities to help people within their communities. We need to return to our local living community, so we can develop real relationships with people, again. Voting isn't going to fix this.

[@gysgijsbers4202]

In South Africa the ANC has abused bureaucracy for self-enrichment & weak service delivery, spending billions & billions with very little progress economically & infrastructurally. Crime, Corruption & Unemployment is sky high. So much for being a welfare state model to the Continent of Africa & the World.

[@IllicitGreen]

why should they have access if they arent willing to work

[@SandfordSmythe]

How much welfare are able people eligible for?

[@sr2291]

​@@SandfordSmytheThank you. That could have been my own question.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@sr2291 Able people are not eligible for any cash payments.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@sr2291 For the able-bodied person, there are no cash payments. Some states will allow them food stamps and Medicaid.

[@brezlin-hamill]

Welfare State...been gone 30 years now.

[@sr2291]

Nope. Not totally.

[@frankme9862]

Short cuts to thinking. Good for you for feeding the animals. Why are you taking my money to continue this frenzy?

[@Jjj53214]

I didn’t hear any solutions?

[@rutessian]

Just because you have an average of some values, doesn't mean 50% of them will be bellow it. As an example: 19 baskets with 100 apples each and 1 with a single apple - only 1 basket will have bellow the average number of apples per basket.

[@Gonzalo-hg6ii]

Tessian Rusu normal distribution (any symmetrical one for that matter) has same mean and median

[@rutessian]

@@Gonzalo-hg6ii you are assuming that intelligence follows a normal distribution.

[@Gonzalo-hg6ii]

Tessian Rusu that is not an assumption, it is a well proven fact, and the basis for the definition of iq

[@rutessian]

@@Gonzalo-hg6ii IQ tests may be designed to create normal distributions for large populations, but Intelligence is not the same thing as IQ.

[@navinjha7685]

Exactly....There is a difference between median and mean/average

[@darbyohara]

They have access to a satisfying life BUT NOT AT MY EXPENSE FUCK! Why do smarter harder working more accomplished people have to drag up losers who make conscious choices that fuck up their own life

[@amiralozse1781]

audio is far too low

[@gt-gu7rb]

He's so off base it's scary. He talks of community what he does not understand is there is no community in the areas he speaking of. That is there is no sense of community. I remember a conversation I had with a gentleman about the riots in Baltimore after Freddie Grey was killed by the police. We were talking about the media coverage and how all the talking heads on cable TV were talking about how people were tearing up thier own community. He pointed out to me something I personally hadn't realized and none of the talking heads or so called journalist had pointed out. Which was most of the people rioting didn't own property there. They just happened to live there and if they had the means they would not choose to live there in the first place. They were not invested in the area and as a result thier is no sense of" community ." Additionally if the government is taken out of the equation and it is left to community based organizations those organizations still would ultimately get thier funding from the government and they would still have rules and regulations about how those resources would be distributed, because that's what the government does. This talk is idealism run amuck. As if people are just going to be nice. This is America man if you haven't know it you got to earn it here.

[@maddy.daveila]

Exactly! Speaking from the UK here but many of the underclass living in inner city areas move around a lot and do not have the community he is talking about.

[@XCONTRACTDOG]

Why the f@ck is youtube forcing me to watch 2 full length adds before it plays my requested video?

[@heatherchapman1984]

THIS is why Andrew Yang's Freedom Dividend, which current recipients of means-tested Welfare programs could opt for instead, is SO much better than the Federal welfare programs we have now. Individual citizens of this country have VALUE as human beings. Yang's "Humanity First"-themed campaign promotes this idea. It's not Left, It's not Right, it's FORWARD!

[@thefakenewsnetwork8072]

Shoutout to the american eugenics society😊😇

[@RicktheRecorder]

Please normalise audio levels before posting. This is little more than a quiet mumble.

[@koolkev2020able]

He sounds a bit like William Shatner. 🙂

[@capacamaru]

Absolute waffle. No, the reason why the poor have more localized social circles is because they can't afford the travel and other expenses of maintaining wider ones. The key to welfare is not how rich people feel about charity. Welfare is not the sole domain of the unintelligent. Try sitting in a room full of intelligent, qualified people who have lost their jobs through circumstances out of their control, and are now being put through a soul crushing and demoralizing grovelling process to beg for the bare minimum needed to survive, hopefully long enough to see them through to another job in an overstuffed workplace. Not everyone has five figure + savings accounts to tide them over. Not everyone has multimillion dollar family safety nets.

[@capacamaru]

​@Natty Fatty Powerlifting Savings and the ability to retrain are luxuries most people on welfare cannot afford. Choosing a career path is a gamble that takes years to pay out.. or not. Like it or not, we don't live in a society anymore where anyone can till their fields and sell the excess at market for enough to live on. Welfare provides a vital safety net, and the costs of it are far outweighed by the benefits of not having the lowest rung ejected from the economy and turning to crime. If you want to reduce welfare, then create more jobs, and make sure everyone is getting the best education possible.

[@roar40s]

@@capacamaru Stopping the welfare altogether is what will create the jobs. There's NO use for government in our daily lives at all.

[@capacamaru]

@@roar40s How? What jobs? For starters, you'd start by axing all the ridiculous jobs in the welfare bureaucracy. Now you have a bunch of people who can't afford rent or transportation. How do you get a job without travel or residence? If there was no use for government, we wouldn't have governments. But I can think of a pretty good reason to have them every time I drive somewhere or stick something in an electrical outlet.

[@Makeitmakesensejo]

Babylon the Great has fallen.

[@doritisfat]

volume is too low

[@ashishpatel350]

So that's why we give Israel billions every year in welfare and economic benifits.

[@willty3099]

I know right. And we give corporations billions a year in welfare but it's only a problem if the poor gets it

[@bcshu2]

Why single out one nation out of the many which receive taxpayer dollars ... unless it signals your bigotry

[@imperfectious]

Can you provide the time signature where he advocates for foreign aid or corporate bailouts? I listened twice and didn't hear it. Loserthink takes many forms, including: "You didn't mention MY issue with X, therefore your concern about X is not valid."

[@tex8939]

@@imperfectious www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/500192/

[@imperfectious]

@@tex8939 Did you think I was refuting the fact that the US gives aid to Israel? I'm asking for a time signature (distinct from a link) in this video where Dr. Murray advocates for military aid or corporate bailouts. Keep in mind that, even if he DID advocate for these things, that these things are distinct from social welfare.

[@scottkim77]

BOOST the volume next time, please!!!

[@dks13827]

Do not give them our money !!!! Seriously.

[@michaelneal900]

the only way one could possibly come to think this nonsense is correct is by ignoring all of human history.

[@dmur612]

7:35 “...I think Government is inherently incompetent...” I disagree... First, “Government” isn’t a person, it is comprised of MANY disparate people of wildly varying backgrounds and intelligence. Second, EVERY one of those people have, do and WILL CONTINUE to act in their OWN best interest FIRST by doing whatever is necessary to justify their positions, their funding and their necessity. Why would anyone within the Office of Economic Opportunity or the Welfare Administration want to eliminate or, much less, measurably reduce poverty? Why would the Pentagon, all US military branches and those within the CIA and FBI want to eliminate or, much less, reduce our number of domestic and foreign enemies?

[@zanelelong9912]

It's like they want to be ran by private companies. It's resident evil all over again.

[@djmcnerney]

Nonsense. Private charity fell short of solving the hunger problem, for decades. That’s why the food stamp program had to be created.

[@maddy.daveila]

Exactly! And the community he speaks of does not exist for the underclass in inner city areas

[@sean_haz]

That's nonsense. Show me the people dying of starvation in the US in 1963? (Food stamps were 64)

[@sean_haz]

​@@maddy.daveilahe's saying the reason it doesn't exist is because it's destroyed by the government welfare programs. That's the whole point of his talk?

[@maddy.daveila]

@@sean_haz quite literally tens of millions of people. Google it. Hunger was a problem in America from the 1930s following the Great Depression. Unemployment was literally one quarter of the US population.

[@sean_haz]

@@maddy.daveila I would be extremely surprised, but I'm always open to more data. I searched it up and didn't find a source claiming anything close that, if you'd like to provide a source I'd be happy to read itm

[@manudehanoi]

the subtitles work if you cant decypher the mumble

[@cronistamundano8189]

I stopped listening when the frase "50 percent of the population is below average intelligence" came out. This guy obviously has to take statistics.

[@maosw]

Please elaborate how that isn't a true statement by the very definition of the word average?

[@cronistamundano8189]

In statistics, you have Mean (average) Median and Mode. Mean or average being the sum of the values of the sample, divided the number of values in the sample. Mode is the value that in a sample has been shown to appear the most number of times And Median is the CENTRAL value of all values of the sample. it is the the one value that sepparates those below or those above in 50/50 percent. it may be calculated differently in each case. So, the frase would have been "50 percent of intelligence are below the median" by someone who is really true to their's stattics knowledge. In a normal distribution (the famous bell shaped curve) the mean/average) , mode and median will most likely be very close to each other. However, in order to consider something to be "below average" in a normal distribution, there is something called "standard deviation" - in a classical bell shaped curve of a normal distibution, only values found to be more than two standard deviations lower or higher then the median/mean/mode (assuming they are all close toghether) are to be called "above" or "below" what would might be just a random values in a distribution. In order types of distribution, an average/ mean, median and mode can be more spread out, suggesting that the sample is not a classical normal variation and does not have a bell shaped curve as the graphic representation of that spread of values. In that case, the "average", and the "sample that separates the sample in 50/50 percent groups" - thats the median - may not be the same value, and it may well and up that the mean(average) may fall as being higher or lower than the median. So if one does not understand this simple statistic concepts (concepts of central tendency are things that you may learn on your very first Statistics course), it is probably not whorth the while listening to a line of argument based on faulty statistics concepts.

[@davidhawley1132]

Cronista Mundano IQ scores are actually based on median and standard deviation.

[@enricolucarelli816]

Cronista Mundano you are right in your análisis about the difference between the concepts of median and average. But then your conclusion is more likely to be that of a pathetic nerd. First of all, it was a joke, and not the central point of the discourse. Second, it is not impossible for a distribution to have an average value coincident with the median, as you actually admit in your explanation by mentioning the bell shaped distribution, which is very likely to be the one that conforms to the distribution of intelligence, taking in consideration the central limit theorem. So the claim of Mr. Murray is most likely very close to exact. Thirdly, I think that the speech of Mr. is excellent, and you could learn a lot from listening to it instead of adopting your pedantic attitude.

[@maosw]

@@cronistamundano8189 So you just finished a statistics class and wanted to point out a distinction without a difference. Congrats, just like I suspected... As others already implied, considering what we know about intelligence distribution the colloquial "average" and statistical median are under most circumstances very close if not almost identical making his statement "close enough to true" for pretty much anything but scientific publications. Whereas your reaction to it... is at best extremely pedantic and a bit asinine, to be honest.