Photographers - Don't Get Sued For This

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

If you want to learn about commercial photography as a career path then head here tinhouse-studio.com/

[@domsphotography]

I was talking to a wedding photographer and he told me a story about being sued by the mother of the bride because she said he had made her look fat in all the photos, it went to court and the judge dismissed the case with the line “ but madam you are fat “.

[@michaelj3414]

Brides, mothers and in-laws are precisely why I don't do weddings.

[@danielson_9211]

Assited one 2 weddings , first bridezilla drove me nuts second momzilla was worst then first one after that never again I don't have the tolerance for it.

[@ramadaxl]

I was taken to court...for NOT taking photos ( I wasn't even at the wedding ). Long story short...Somebody tried to hire me to shoot a wedding, I declined the job, so they 'hired' a young guy with a digital camera...the results of which turned out as you would expect. So they took me to court on the grounds that since I wouldn't / couldn't do the job they HAD to hire somebody else...who had no experience / qualifications. Case thrown out and I counter sued and got compensation for all the hassle :-)

[@mattpierceblog]

As a working photographer here i the states I would agree that it is much more risky getting sued. I personally have never been sued for photography but I do know that when I was in the wedding photography business I had a client threaten. lawsuit because she didn't like the composition of about a dozen images and we wouldn't make her 55 year-old self look 25...which she was insistent upon. She never did anything but rant and rave on Yelp, but the reality is that clients threaten it all the time. It is a sad but true fact. Good video.

[@garethmcfarland7244]

“Unless I’m in a coma, the shoot is going ahead” 😂 Quote of the year Scott!

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

haha thanks for watching.

[@KarltonKemerait]

For those of us just starting out, we may have zero idea what a first time conversation or interview with a potential client looks like. A video with a mock-up conversation to give us some idea of what to expect would be wonderful. Maybe even do a few mock-ups, one an average chat, then maybe one with a difficult client or maybe even one with a novice photographer on his fist potential visit...what to do what to avoid, what are the expectations. What does a first contact letter look like, where to send them, how to negotiate payment (if that is even an option, etc. Just a thought ... Thanks again!

[@jamesg7734]

I'm in UK too. Prior to being in photography, I had professional indemnity insurance as a web developer. Gave me a lot of peace of mind in decision making - In that I can give "X advice" and if it turns out bad - my back was covered. My indemnity insurance also covered a couple of other useful areas - one was third party offenses (best way I can describe it) - In that is someone did something illegal as part of a project (let's say, someone provided me with images that turned out they didn't have the copyright to and I used them on a website) then my insurance company would cover my back too for any legal ramifications. Equally, they would chase unpaid invoices on my behalf. Never had to use that - but useful to know it was there. That's the thing with business insurance... it's not like car or home insurance where there is an "incident" and they just pay out on a "claim" to a monetary value - They tend to try and resolve the problem between everyone at the least cost to all parties. At least, that's what mine would do :) With any insurance - always read the fine print of what is included, and more importantly - what isn't. Your insurance may cover 15K of camera equipment - under the proviso that it is always under lock and key, even when operating remotely... so read that fine print before you ever have to make a claim.

[@Emerald_City_]

Thank you thank you thank you! Have no plans for commercial shoots or to run a studio plus not in the UK but it’s so important to know this…

[@hartgetzen7867]

A very interesting topic hardly ever discussed. Thanks for bringing it up!!

[@allenbosely2059]

I like how you communicate well and regularly as the process moves forward. I really like good communication between me and clients (I’m not photographer) and it makes everything go smoother and work is pleasant and we all end up happy. Really enjoying your videos, just discovered them. Getting into bit of personal type videography and some photography. Thanks for sharing this.

[@nelsonclub7722]

As a Pro in the UK I have been an expert witness on behalf of Fuji (now Fujifilm) 3 times - I should point out that at the time we ran a Fuji Pro Lab as well as a Pro studio - so I could therefore speak as an expert witness on two counts - rare. All three cases were wedding photographers who had blamed Fuji for failures with film - this was in the old days of film - all three cases were proven against the photographers - the suits were brought about by the insurance companies trying to wriggle out of paying for a re-shoot - not sure how all this would work out with a digital shoot today.

[@KarltonKemerait]

Hello, you know what I think would be interesting is this... I grew up in the United States and I now live in Medellin Colombia, with hopes someday of moving to the UK. It would be great if you could do a video with a photographer from the US, then one from Colombia (or any other country) and talk about the differences, from photographers rights to shoot in public, to insurance requirements, to payment process and rates. Basically anything that varies from country to country. You could do it either as individual videos with you and one other photographer from a different country or maybe as a panel 3-4 photographers with each taking a turn at answering a question. Just a thought....great videos, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into these.

[@davidward1224]

Good summary of business legal requirements. In the states Commercial Code (contract law) is state specific. So, all the internet advise has to be filtered through that strainer, even if it were an attorney. And, any attorney will preface anything they say with a disclaimer that they are not giving legal advise. In principle everything you described for how you conduct your business works in the US as well. IT's well worth the few hundred dollars it will cost to have an attorney set things up and advise on best business structure. In US LLC (limited Liability Company) has become a popular structure. If I were in your situation, I'd have one for studio and another for commercial photography, a third for KZbin and a fourth for your budding agency work. The benefit is creating liability barriers between each activity. Really important if someone files suit.

[@dontbreaktheshadowofmylove]

would you be down to share either your own t&c or the resources you or your legal team advise to use to build the t&c? I feel like I always learn something new looking at other pros' contracts. Love the video!

[@AndreGranjo]

Decided to subscribe to your channel the moment you stated your opinion on how to conduct oneself in terms of our obligations in our society.

[@iggytse]

This reminds me of the construction industry in Australia. If the client goes off contract the builder can charge variation costs even if the change makes the builder’s life easier and faster.

[@dramalama4911]

Great thinking about tax. Thank you

[@BronzeHarbour]

My main work is in digital sales in the UK. You Brits are pretty civilised, business wise. Usually everything goes well and smooth with most people. Some geographies are definitely not like that and working with timelines and prepaid sessions is a nightmare.

[@nickdunmur]

I'm glad you said it's not worth not insuring yourself properly. Professional indemnity, public liability and employer's liability are really the three 'must-haves'. Btw, if you run a limited company in the UK, it's a legal requirement to have EL, even if its just you in the business. Also, if you regularly work with the same team (assistants, crew) over multiple shoots over a time-frame, it's worth having EL, as even though you may not be technically their employer, any incident could be construed by the UK courts as you being in the position of 'employer' regardless. As you said, they are relatively cheap insurance policies anyway, so why wouldn’t you. 🙏🏽

[@eldenbrady]

In the US it is th opposite, workers comp insurance is only for employees and as th business owner you are not and employee.

[@uncledavesplace]

Basic project management: You can have it good, fast or cheap. Which one do you want?

[@stuart150]

That's the triangle of projects....pick 2 of the 3

[@PsychedelicChameleon]

Thank you for this informative video. I suspect that the culture of your country helps you out more than you can realize. I live in the United States, and for the last 20 years I've worked exclusively at two small companies. These companies aren't photography companies, so perhaps the comparison isn't fair, but overall at each company the combined cost of all the insurances was the second largest expense, more than rent, more than vehicle expenses, more than utilities, topped only by employee salaries.

[@iangriffiths2559]

This is the kind of video I have been looking for...the business side.

[@dps6198]

One of the best ways to not get in trouble as photographer is to first of all ask for permission to photograph inside a business on property that does not belong to you and do this in advance and get that permission in writing Don't think just because you have a camera you can jump a fence or enter a building and take a few quick pictures and leave before you get noticed that just makes it bad for everyone else. Number two if you're going to be taking pictures and they're going to be people in those pictures politely ask them if they mind if you take their picture or if they're included in a picture that you're taking of something else. You be surprised at how many people are more than happy to allow you to take pictures on their property or in their building if you ask politely at first. If they turn you down or they get angry or upset it's likely because other photographers or somebody with a smartphone thought they could do what you want to do without asking questions or asking permission. There are hundreds of videos on KZbin maybe even thousands of interesting places and I can guarantee you these people that call themselves photographers did not ask permission They operate on the assumption of that is better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. Especially if you disobey disregard no trespassing signs It's an arrestable offense in many places.

[@mlneale1959]

As soon as I start doing street portraits I will rejoin the Professional Photographers of America. One of the membership benefits is various types of insurance.

[@dangilmore9724]

I have insurance on my gear that covers everything up to and including if i get mad and dropkick my Canon or Hasselblad. I'd ever dropkick a Canon or Hasselblad, though. A Nikon or Fuji, possibly. 😉

[@AR-vf7vg]

Other aspects : My fear of damaging people or their belongings ..for instance making fall a sculpture or damage à lamp when I move or transfer a lampstand at tbeir place, or if I back up wile framing a photo and would push someone inadvertently, or send photos to a wrong client, or to be told I forgot to enquire if a specific scene or person or timing was to be included and or not missed and that this renders the however well done work done so much meaningless now... Or drunken people getting menacing ..I just need to feel I have a reliable insurance for paying legal fees and allowing guidance etc., and insurance of gear (stolen, fallen, ..) The less money one has the more it looks disproportionate, these "speculative expenses". "Freedom is just another word for 'nothing else to loose' ". Life is ambivalent. (Art is Gestalt :-)

[@chriscanon5278]

Wow six figure job on a handshake! Used to be that way here in the States but not anymore 😢

[@FeedScrn]

Don't want to scare anybody... I found that getting insurance is different than actually collecting on it. These were non-photographic related: Once with a Postal item. Once with an online auction item. They are both resolved now. Careful out there. - I did collect on homeowner's insurance. They came through when I really needed them.

[@nauticfilms]

04:08 excellent advice. I take 50% up front. I call it "down payment." Why do you think it is important to call it "booking fee." ? Thanks in advance.

[@kiwimike2330]

When it’s a booking fee, that’s a service that you have delivered by taking the booking and allocating the time. Once the service they have paid for has been delivered they can’t ask for the money back as you have completed the contract. A down payment or part payment is for a service that is yet to be delivered, so if they change their mind they can ask for it back as the service wasn’t delivered. I don’t bother with booking fees anymore , I haven’t taken them for over 15 years now. But my clients are all businesses and it’s one less thing I have to do, if you’re dealing with the public obviously you need booking fees.

[@nauticfilms]

@@kiwimike2330 thank you for helping me understand this.

[@Mettyunuabona_]

interesting this video comes out today; had a friend asking about all of this about how I deal with my own; and whilst it's not as robust as your own, glad i was spot on. But it would be good to know WHERE/WHO is worth getting Insurance for these various things

[@RodEdwardsImagery]

Do you have a download link for terms and conditions template with UK clients?

[@georgevcelar]

Clearly I'm in the wrong business: I should've become an insurance broker!

[@michelleyates803]

Is waiting going on two years for wedding pics too long? A friend of the family has their own photography shop professionally, took them, no contract , told us twice she would get them to us, going on two years still no pics was a large wedding party of 11

[@kiwimike2330]

I have a strict 7 days for payment. If you stick to your guns and insist that it’s 7 days then you’ll get paid in 7 days. If the client goes, but we pay 60 days or whatever, I simply tell them that 60 days is alright for all their other suppliers but I’m special so I get paid in 7 days. All companies can pay you in 7 days if they want to so don’t accept anything else.

[@kiwimike2330]

@@mdhazeldine There’s nothing wrong with being upfront about your expectation of being paid in a timely manner. Lots of people beginning their journey as a professional photographer struggle with getting paid on time, because they’re afraid to bring up payment terms in case they won’t get the job, I did, but after a couple of years I was like screw this. Just remember, you’re providing a service they want and they have to honour your payment terms, not the other way around . My terms and conditions also include, no usage rights are granted until payment has been received in full, as well as fees for breach of copyright $50000 per infringement. Just so they get the message, I’ve delivered the images, pay me, and don’t use my images until you’ve paid. Every client I have pays me in 7 days, most pay the day I send the invoice.

[@jimjimgl3]

@@mdhazeldine File under "How to Trim Your Client List"....

[@chrisclarke3443]

Professional indemnity insurance covers being sued by a third party where where you have caused financial loss but not caused injury to person or damage to property. The example of someone not liking the way they look is one often used but difficult to enforce but there are other more relevant examples. Breach of copywright - supplying images without appropriate permissions - foreign location shoot and losing the images. There was one UK one - where promotional items were supplied but the paper had too much moisture content and the giveaway seeds inside germinated, Entire promotion had to be abandoned .

[@peterjackhandy]

Listening to you running through the 'whys & wherefors' makes me so glad I'm retired & only pursue photography for my own enjoyment & if anyone else likes my output that's just a bonus {:0)

[@shawnbell6392]

If a garden variety youtuber is posting videos from another country that are monitized yet they are violating the privacy laws of that country can they be penalized for "working" illegally in that country since they are making money from their video?

[@chuo8226]

I'm 17 wanting to earn some money with my photos and I created a shutterstock account and clicked "Im 18 and above" will my account get deleted?

[@alexlouder]

Any compelling argument on how this wouldn’t apply to the rest of the team, like assistants, digitechs or retouchers? Often we’re being asked to “hold dates” but then no one is owning up to the missed revenue when something is not moving forward and fails to notify in a reasonable time.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Great point on holding dates. There is the same issue for everyone involved. My mind set is I say yes to any holding of dates, but if another client pays first, that dates no longer held. Im not sure what clients expect of us when it comes to holding dates that they make no financial commitment to it. A held date to me is just a potential, but nothing more. I still make plans for those days until I know 100% that payments secured.

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

Wedding photographers in the US get sued all the time. Usually by the mother of the bride.

[@jay10242]

insurance insurance insurance. Fear sells. How much we pay in a year because we are afraid? And who scares us? What if...

[@bngr_bngr]

Can’t you deduct it from your income in the UK?

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

It really does. Thankfully my gear is minimum so I dont insure a lot of it as the risk isnt great enough for the payout. Better to save some money each month instead and put it somewhere that it can grow. But PL is pretty much a requirememnt to be on set here, even though there isnt a law saying so.

[@jimzielinski946]

Many years ago. I shot my cousin's 50'th wedding anniversary, free as a gift to her and her husband. I only did it after telling her to hire a pro. She said she wasn't going to do that so that's why i agreed. Her first complaint was "you made me look old". Seriously? I wanted to tell her she was old but for peace in the family i held my tongue. Then she asked me where the video was. She never asked for a video. For her other complaints, i told her that her husband could edit/crop or do anything she wanted on his pc since i gave them all the negatives and scans. Some people can't be pleased.

[@peterjackhandy]

I know - "Family"; but you seriously undervalued yourself there.

[@MassiveBenny]

I used to be happy to pay tax, now I've sworn I'll never do so again. All I see is my money spaffed up the wall on scroungers, migrants, corruption and waste. Like my dad said, the two big advantages of working for yourself is that you can take off the time you want, and fiddle your taxes. Other than that - some great advice. 🙂

[@paulgrosse7631]

If you were in a coma, that would be 'force majeure' and you wouldn't be liable for damages.

[@chrisfetner332]

Free medical care that sucks.

[@ryancooper3629]

"Just pay your taxes, it pays for all the good stuff we have in life like free medical care" That doesn't sound "free" to me. ;)

[@philliphickox4023]

"Free" is a misnomer, used to in the term of government or state provided services paid for through taxation, for example the roads and highways are free to use.

[@ryancooper3629]

@@philliphickox4023 I know, i was being sarcastic.

[@philliphickox4023]

@@ryancooper3629 LOL, it's an argument that Americans trot out on occasions.

[@aristoioannidis7490]

Outstanding!