Photography Composition :: Rule of Odds

[@bjeol]

In regards to the lack of practicing among photographers, I believe it has something to do with the over-emphasis on the technological side of photography. Things are advancing so fast that we feel the need acquire the latest and greatest piece of equipment in order to be competent or accomplished, instead of understanding photography's purpose and how to go about achieving that purpose.

[@MOYO2024]

Nick Spicer Well put!

[@secularnevrosis]

+Nick Spicer In music we call it GAS. Gear Acqusition Syndrome. I tend to fall into that trap my self even though I know that some of my best pictures have been taken with stone age era cameras. Composition, timing, ideas and even luck makes for exiting and good photos. There is really no other way to get good at something than to practise alot.

[@toddlavigne6441]

today most photographer are obsessed with the technology. But really digital is digital and it's not changing it's just getting improved quality

[@markharris5771]

Nick Spicer In the 3 years since your comment it has become even more accurate.

[@toddlavigne6441]

Well the profession is is finished, way too easy to get into, therfore too much competition. It does take time and hard work to become good from an artistic point of view, but your average client cares only about the cost these days. Technology had ruined professions in the past, photographers are failing to see the ship is sinking. The truly smart ones have either diversified into other businesses as well as photography or just have closed shop. However you still can carve out a living, but it's not a good one.

[@rodfaircloth35]

I dont understand why people COMPLAIN about the talking. you came here for a Lesson. sit down and learn! thank you for the photos and this video. VERY helpful!

[@noriorock]

I really think it should have been be longer...

[@tutubeas10]

It's not the talking itself, what is annoying is the way he talks. I had to mute the video then turned on the subtitles and it worked.

[@spikefivefivefive]

" I can show you better than I can tell you."

[@hassaneljebyly2345]

I think they want photos that they can copy

[@GNU_Linux_for_good]

I second that. More patience, folks.

[@pigmentoymadera6098]

I just did read the comments about "too wordy" and "get a point". Well, I am a German that speak english too, and I understand each and every word and each and every message, that Ted try to get over. Maybe...sometimes you don´t need to get to "a point". Sometimes it is just perfect, to put an idea into peoples mind or to push people on to get them on the right way or even a new way? I think so and that is what Ted is doing for me!! And he is doing it that "just perfect"!!! It seems Ted is a very intelligent and educated man that know what he is talking about but loosing "the point" on the way because he want to give this helping hand to open your own mind for the New. Now I was very wordy but got it to a point lol. Ted you are doing well, just perfect, interesting and you get the "New", the idea or that "open my mind" over, to a German. Thank you for all the effort and help.

[@SalemaPsy]

If people don't like they have a great solution: just go away! Mr. Ted looses his time creating this content to share with us, it's his own creative movement so it's his ideas and his point of view. We just have to be thankful by having this youtube chanel with this content.

[@WilliamLesourd]

True, but we can also say what we think can be improved to make the experience of learning even more pleasing. Like please go straight to the point. But as I said some place else, Ted's talks are more pleasing to listen too now (we are early 2017). If I had just been pissed off and gone away without saying a word, he may not have known what was wrong and what was driving people away. No one was rude by saying that they thought it rumbled on a bit. Everyone pointing this problem to him, was just trying to help.

[@Iconofilia]

People who complain about the intro being too long are probably the kind who would not enjoy spending time in a cafe just chatting about photography. Same kind of people who would probably not wait for the right light or the right moment. I'm just saying. Thanks, Ted, for a great chat. I always enjoy your videos.

[@teehee.1862]

Iconofilia nice job making inferences about people you have never met before. i was going on here thinking he would analyze photographs, not 4 minutes of just himself talking. he’s very articulate and intelligent, though, (that’s better than someone saying ‘nice shot, really nice shot’ every picture). and his advices at the start were good. maybe they could had been pushed to the end, so people could watch the meat of this video right at the beginning.

[@theartofphotography]

Still experimenting with the studio - thanks for the kind words!

[@CraigKratovil]

Talk all you want Ted. It adds texture and necessary lead-in. Never boring.

[@greendeane1]

I,too, have a degree in music and practicing 40 hours a week was not unusual. More so the art of music lent itself to my writing and my photography. It's all about learning structure and best practices and when to abandoned that.

[@theartofphotography]

Well stated!

[@TheUberSchattenjager]

Fantastic video - of the 1000's of how-to-be-a-photographer on you tube, your presentation is amongst the most intelligent, articulate and USEFUL. Very thought provoking and appreciated.

[@theartofphotography]

Thanks!!

[@RimantasLiubertas]

You are watching wrong videos…

[@thegreatvanziniphotos5976]

Here here.

[@ssb3556]

People complain that he is too wordy but who cares? I think he is interesting for the duration of the video and it's not like y'all can't spare 10 minutes out of your day

[@alecjuho9436]

I really enjoy these lessons. I just have to take part in the complaining of your "rambling". I think, and this is just my opinion, you're not rambling - you're teaching. Furthermore you're teaching on a platform that is free for us to consume. I love these lessons, and i learn a lot as a photographer. I have to thank you. So, thank you. You got a new subscriber from Finland!

[@WorldTurndUpsideDown]

Could you talk about aspect ratio? I find the 1:1 images really interesting but would like to hear about the benefits of the different ratios and what guidelines or rules work best.

[@stephendeakin2714]

Along with other circumstances your channel has reawakened my photographic interests. Thank you.

[@thaoldmaninthamountian2382]

I don't get it. What he shared with us through introducing the concept, was just as important as the rest of the video. In this culture of right-now-instant-gratification, We have become overly obsessed with "get-to-the-point", when indeed the getting there IS the point. I feel that he did an excellent job. so much so that I clicked the subscribe button.

[@SuperMusikHaus]

It's not at all that he cant introduce the concept or the philosophies of "these are the rules, but not really." I think it was helpful for him to say "this is what it is, but it's not totally rigid," but when it takes up 1/3 of the video at the very beginning, the information can get lost on some people with shorter attention spans or literally less time to do something (its not just about "i want info now, gimme info"). Perhaps if it was placed at the end after stating the rules, it would still be just as effective and helpful.

[@JoshuaBoldt]

five-years-ago-Ted is just as good at today-Ted :)

[@tim.van.emmerloot]

Even 7 years later it still holds up really well!

[@rw80]

8 years is also OK :-)

[@MrEddymattar]

I signed up a while ago for a MasterClass with Annie Leibovitz and it was honestly a sham and a huge waste of money , I would rather spend 90$ on AoP at least he's informative and presents well , thanks for the great videos man you have no idea how helpful you are and how amazing it is to just sit down and discuss photography with you

[@stickyvids15]

Watching this video series in Jan 2020 and it is still excellent and relevant information. Grateful for people like Ted for curating quality content for amateur artists like me... not to mention this information is FREE.

[@stickyvids15]

@Back And Fort I was only referring to the quality of the content. Do you disagree that the composition course is relevant?

[@stickyvids15]

@Back And FortThanks for the clarification, I misunderstood. It's too bad that is what his channel has turned into. Seems like KZbin has become entirely focused on views just like most other social media platforms these days.

[@dave0992]

Just started following your channel and it is fantastic! i'm in my first year of a photography degree (at the ripe old age of 42) and these videos help so much

[@ianstewart8243]

To clarify what is meant by rule here: Rule is not meant as a hard and fast must-be-adhered-to fact. Yes, that is a definition of the word, but - words can have more than one definition!! This can trip you up and cause confusions etc. How the word "rule" is being used in the "rule of thirds" is as follows "A principle that operates within a particular sphere of knowledge, describing or prescribing what is possible or allowable." (Google "define rule") This is a more flexible and suitable use of the word in this instance!

[@tubadylan]

No wonder I like your videos so much. Musicians make the best photographers, and teachers! Thank you!

[@charlesmascari8197]

You and Sean Tucker are my favorites. Side note, please do an episode on Arnold Newman.

[@jeffboxill1278]

Charles Mascari he did

[@brianhudson5807]

This is really good. It's nice to see a video that gets to the heart of what makes a good photograph and doesn't mention pixels, sharpness, moire and all that peripheral stuff.

[@Solarsystem50]

Very nice. The best channel in KZbin about this topic.

[@sarabenaglio2727]

My teacher uses ur videos to help teach my photography class about composition. These videos are great!

[@tclin2938]

Hi Ted, came back to this video few years after my first watch, still love your composition videos. Do you have any new thoughts in these compositions or ish topics? Would really love to see new videos on these topics

[@2ears1mouth786]

I loved the point about practise... I totally understand where you're coming from as well because I've been studying the violin for 9 years now but have never *practised* photography in the same way. And that doesn't make much sense, when I think about it.

[@stephandjulien]

I'll just take a second here to point out how well this man aged! Not that it is really important, but gosh! I was just watching a video from 2017 and it struck me. Anyway, I really adore this channel, keep up the good work!

[@alessandrobiondi3569]

Ted Forbes, you rock! I have been watching almost all your episodes, and I can't stop learning.

[@gustavoleitao5481]

I discovered your videos recently. First of all, thank you for taking your time and effort to share your knowledge. I like the fact that you don't limit your talking to technical and geeky stuff and really give a broad panorama of what photography is as an art. That being said, I think you should consider making more concise videos. Sometimes I feel like you get carried away by some opinion or something you like a lot and tend to be a little verbose, even repeating things once or twice in a slightly different way. Don't take that as a harsh critique. The content is always excellent. Thank you for that.

[@KevinShull]

Very good video. The use of odd numbers can be useful for both symmetrical and asymmetrical composition. The singular form, though odd, can be a very powerful and profound image. When forms are isolated they take on a kind of importance. They may be framed by negative space visually. but also imply a sense of distance from the forms around them becoming iconic. The power of one. Enjoying your videos...take care.

[@jakerose677]

I don't know why but there is something about the reverberation in the audio track that I really enjoy. Great video by the way!

[@MorbidJayGames]

I love this channel man, keep it up! You deserve your own show on a TV network

[@neilbixby6120]

P.S. I appreciated your detailed intro. You never want to lose sight of the basics .

[@BrianDorion]

Hi Ted! Thanks for the work you have been doing putting these videos out. The Keith Carter picture with the windows and the cats, while you say that there are two groups (the 2 cats and the 3 windows), I actually think that there are three. When you look at the bright points of the picture there are 6 bright objects; the top of the bench, the 2 cats and the three windows. I find my eye drawn to the bench, then up to the cats and then up to the windows. Once you get to the top of the windows, the loss of focus causes my eye to drift back down to the bench and then back up. Just what I see when I look at it. :-) Thanks again!

[@jonaqpetla_]

Second favourite KZbin channel. (The first is Every Frame a Painting.). Watching it on 2017 06 19 08 44 00.0 +5:30

[@richardmathis3731]

Yes, he does talk a good bit. And he talks very well and knows his subject. I did not know this principle by name but knew it more instinctively and use it with my work. I greatly appreciate his intelligent explanation and feel inspired and validated. This is aesthetic principle wired into our brain as is our need for rational verbal conceptualization. The one thing that I would suggest is that he give a more succinct definition at the beginning paired with a couple of photos before going into the excellent explanation. Otherwise, I loved it and look forward to hearing more what he has to say about composition.

[@FrodeBergetonNilsen]

This never gets old. Thanks for posting this. This was a really useful watch for me.

[@Mukhtar_Ali]

I saw your series today and its awesome to learn. Thanks.

[@avitiasensei]

I´ve just started photography and I´m pretty much lost because I´ve never done it. Thanks for your detailed insight on this and other videos. My calsses aren´t that good and I´m learning so much more here! I can´t believe people complain about the "intro". If they don´t like to listen to that they can just skip to what matters for them. For me, I get a lot from those minutes in the beginning.

[@danielmcelroy4505]

Really interesting--especially the Rodin subject matter. I read the last piece slightly differently, but I think in emphasis of your point: that there are all these pairs--of the cats, the two legs of the bench, the top and bottom delineated by the ground line--and the three windows, therefore, are striking.

[@theartofphotography]

You might try the art of photography flickr group. People in there are very helpful!

[@chrisgottert1833]

Thanks a lot! Your descriptions and explanations are always so enlightening and compact👏🏼👌🏻

[@distagon6052]

So glad you mentioned practice around the house. You helped to affirm my use of the living room as a kind of self-portrait studio as I learn contrast control on black and white film with various filters. Reading is one thing doing experiments another, I'd say. Gotta practice to be good.

[@stephenmacneil5753]

Ted...you are fabulous! I learn so much from you!

[@KIFQHESE]

Ted, visual artists practice as well - sketch, paint, shoot thousands of photos. The only difference I see is visual arts tend to leave a permanent effect (like a sketch), unlike (unrecorded) music or dance.

[@PeopleMakePictures]

There are rules that over lap, so therefore there are no rules, by outcome ?

[@alphotheone]

Yes practice is key in the visual arts, that is why thumbnails or i.e contact sheets help in our seeing as artist/photographers. We should be or are always looking or seeing.

[@freeyourmind9000]

communication is a human thing. better words expressed, better things understood. patience is upon the individual.

[@xtekow]

Is three a more harmonious number? It catches my attention and reminds me in my musical aesthetics classes of how the Trinity of God in the Middle Ages was represented in music through compositions. This later broke down. Returning to photography, there will not yet exist in the collective unconscious the idea (imposed from medieval religious aesthetics - which at the same time was its ethics) that this number still has some superiority linked to what is harmonious and, therefore, more beautiful ? A hug and sorry for my bad English. Greetings from Chile

[@ThoughtFission]

Could you recommend some Coffee Table books that are compilations of great photographer's work? Would be a great place to get started, to see what different photographers did.

[@certainlyjoel]

What is the link to the composition blog man? Thanks for this by the way!

[@collectionofsensations]

How did you record the dialog in the room at the start? There are interesting spatial localisation effect cues transferred in the signal that makes me localise the reverberation as coming from behind me, and a bit downwards vertically using headphones. So my guess is that you used a stereo mic on the camera and a mic close to the mouth, both mixed together. By the way, thank you so much for the composition series, i really value it, and appreciate you took the time and energy to create it.

[@lonniepaulson7031]

Ted: Although I have a degree in photography and have worked in it professionally I am now a hobbyist. You always talk about your music background. Do you still have time to practice music? Do you do anything with it? I have played the violin ever since I was 10 years old and now I'm over 60 I still try and give the violin 1/2 an hour every so often. I don't have a lot of time for it. I still work a full time job.

[@theartofphotography]

Lonnie Paulson I do, but not as much as I'd like. I compose and record the ambient music used on the show from time to time.

[@truefilm1556]

Great break down and definitely true: three subjects (or objects) are very pleasing. But these are all still or posing, calm subjects and the goal is harmony. What about, say a couple (walking on the beach or sitting side by side or talking - or two people having an argument, facing each other. Should I look for a third object to balance it out? I think not. I would go for "telling a story" and two people should be fine if positioned correctly and the dynamics, facial and body expressions carry their own weight (yes, I come from a cinematic, and musical, background, but I think a bad photographer can never be a great cinematographer). Just thought I'd throw that in. Any tips and ideas highly appreciated. Thanks!

[@themarcarts]

How do you do the blurring effect in the Keith Carter image?

[@alphotheone]

I totally agree But, what about the fact that in the visual arts e.g. painting, photography, sculpture most often a work includes preliminary work, exploring the elements and principles of art via thumbnail sketches or copying (old masters) other works of art equaling a kind of practice. In photography multiple photos via the contact sheet renders a kind of thumbnail, hence the eye's search for or experiences of a kind of practice revealing the best result. I agree that music has a sustained history of practice. But visual artists also do practice e.g. the study or studies. Yes, in the visual art there has been a loss of the value of study but it is a direct response to the nature of immediacy of the age we live in. It seems unlikely that we will ever go back to the past back individual visual artist know the importance i.e. value of practice /study it will remain as a valued source of enlightenment. All rules and thinking are grouped in a western convention/concept of beauty e.g. the trinity and becomes problematic for the eye’s freedom. and thank you.

[@bjmitts]

Excellent video. I'm just dabbling into the world of photography, didn't even know about this "rule". Interesting. Thanks for the lesson.

[@mjfalcon007]

Excellent video Ted, thank you for taking the time to explain the Rule of Odds. I wasn’t aware of this rule but will keep in mind in future.

[@evoted1978]

Great series Ted, please continue to update it.

[@trevorpinnocky]

Brilliant once again. My only complaint is that it is too short. It is illuminating to watch you review and explain the images. Cheers.

[@julietg7884]

I can't stop watching! Wish I had found these videos before!! :)

[@alifuatrtf]

Great videos. Thank you. Just one comment: the sound quality is a bit off. The reverb in the first part and the submarine sound in the second part distracted my attention. Please use a simple audio track w/o post-production effects and auto-healing.

[@ghffrsfygdhfjkjiysdz]

On Keith Carter's picture my first thought was that the 3 subjects were: windows, cats and the bench. The way i like to think of groups is: what can you add and not detract from the image? For example, if there was 1 or 5 windows in the back the image would still have similar composition, story. What if there were 3 cats sitting on the bench? What if there was also an empty bench in front of this one? Great videos by the way; love your channel. Very educational, fun and beautiful.

[@epsilonaurelius4787]

How are you lighting your green screen?

[@jimreimer6140]

You talk about composition, but in the video your head is partly against the heavy upright line. If you moved your head slightly to my left(your right) into the open space, the composition would improve a bit.

[@angelaguirre9711]

For me a rule is a parameter where things are equilibrated. You can choose then to unbalance certain way everything to express your intention

[@ravelg]

Excellent video. Well done, as usual.

[@kingoftheorient]

Awesome video, is the background real life?

[@artemyurin5593]

Thank you for this issue. I was very interested to see Bresson's work. Cool composition and light))

[@bunssohawt4531]

Fantastic Video of back to basics! I have been doing fashion and portrait photography for quite awhile now and being in today's technology with Instagram, the images out there are saturated. Too saturated. I often get carried along with different photographers and recently trying to focus in landscape and street photography, and I have to admit. I am lost. At a total lost. Not because I don't know the basics of photography but because of images that are out there and it has pushed so many people limits to have this urge to differentiate from the rest and when I stumbled upon this video, it has deeply inspired me to start purely from the basics again and work my way up! Love it!!

[@alan_varley]

How about some examples of even numbers so we can see how displeasing they are? Are photos of The Beatles less pleasing than photos of The Rolling Stones (when there were five)?

[@jirithomas3886]

Anyone here that knows what happened to his composition website? Has it been taken down?

[@GV_777YT]

Can anyone tell me the artist he mentioned? Except Breson i have a hard time understanding as spanish is my morher tongue. :/

[@winedemonium]

These episodes are really valuable. Thank you so much!

[@trashman191]

Fantastic video ted!

[@karlkachmarsky]

Ted I agree with you that lots of photographs underestimate the importance of composition. BTW ignore the hate those are just losers. Keep up the good work!

[@WimWinters]

when does your first book appear?

[@daviddanis6385]

What's up with the reverb/echo?

[@900jascap]

I really like your style of videos, but is there a reason why your audio has so much reverb? It sounds completely different from what you'd expect from the room you are in. Great content though!

[@zhengyuanzhou4147]

The last example is really helpful, thanks for sharing, great video !

[@jaidamann8365]

Please keep "talking" Ted. I enjoy your videos - very useful information.

[@richied9305]

Some good ideas here, very well presented.

[@certainlyjoel]

Tutorial starts at around 4:25. However he shares some wisdom at the start.

[@MOYO2024]

Amazing, concise and clear explanation of the rule of odds! Thank you!

[@majopgalli]

Love your videos Ted!! It's so appreciated in this time period and specially in some cultures where people don't tend to take time and patience and go deep into knowledge.. incorporating new data process takes time to digest it and apprehend it!! For me, who I'm just starting with photography studies your work is tremendously valuable!! keep on the great work :) (Regards from Argentina)

[@aurorashy5560]

You’re so wonderful. I can’t believe I haven’t discovered you before.

[@alphotheone]

Is it because we are organic beings i.e. from nature and perfect symmetry, for us tends to be boring?

[@phillimbacher2223]

Not to worry about considering rules being rigidly followed: American and Brit culture offers the idiom, "as a rule", meaning most of the time (not always).

[@PlasmoX]

Ted, is that a green screen?

[@emptyboxesandrooms]

With the two cats, I just wanted to say that I noticed the three windows, the two cats and the bench which for me broke it up into the three objects. The bench seemed to stand out more for me for some reason.

[@gettingtheshot]

Great video! Thanks for the in depth explanation, I'm a person who needs to hear something a few times

[@kinglear5952]

Great presentation, yet again.

[@grfaudio]

great job Ted...keep it coming!!

[@rusdierahim]

I learn so much from you Ted ! thank you so much !

[@parisgala88]

do you know any websites where you can get criticism on your photography so you can improve? preferably free :)

[@danielxmiller]

How does 11:44 not count as two elements, but 12:44 counts as 5?

[@ColonelSanchezJr]

danielxmiller ur mom gay

[@boycompass]

I don't care much for rules. I've heard them all- none of them stick. I see things that interest me; color, shapes, light, people- and I shoot 'em. To please myself, only. Never have I pondered a rule. I have a trunk-load of international awards that tells me (vis-a-vis judges) that I'm creating good work. Here's a rule: make sure you keep you equipment in good shape.

[@JordanHauserGbg]

You're super creative! Great work :)

[@dragoshutanu8990]

amazing series

[@masuttta]

I like these type of videos, informative and has less talk